Crescent cymbals... AKA Screw all you meaningless peons?

gretsch-o-rama

Senior Member
I seem to fall on the Bosphorus side of things with this one...Once had a full set of bosphorus and then some,,,great pies! For me, it's hard to believe(from Vosbein?) that it was a quality issue...albeit they are not going to be as consistent as paiste or even Zildjian because of the low tech, hand made nature of the pies. And that's OK, I think that's what people who like Bosphorus are after.. I think this Vosbein guy saw an opportunity to seize all of Bosphorus' dealers and endorsers in one foul swoop and have little legal recourse as Bosphorus is an out of country company....There's little they can do about it...I say all this because I refuse to discuss endorsements any longer...People can believe (truth or untruth) whatever they want about endorsements...If you can't take the word of the industry and top level endorsers about how endorsing a product works, then I really don't feel the need to say anything...
 

Joe Morris

DRUMMERWORLD PRO DRUMMER
I don't have to say anything because Bermuda always writes my thoughts for me. And HEY BUDDY WATCH IT WITH THAT AVERAGE JOE STUFF. LOL
 

Aeolian

Platinum Member
Wow! Some of these folks should try to get a session playing for McCartney, or try to buy an amp from Alexander Dumble. There's a guy who absolutely had it with entitled bedroom players ordering amps and then complaining on-line that they didn't end up sounding like Larry Carlton or Robben Ford. So he just closed up the public front and kept to making stuff for people he knew, or came recommended by people he knew. Same as how he got rolling. Makes life much simpler. Except for all the wealthy collectors who've bid the 200 or so amps in circulation up near $100G. Only those with big money get to exercise their entitlement. But HAD won't touch anything they bought on the open market. If it breaks or doesn't make them sound like Robben, they're on their own.

The folks with endorsements got them the old fashioned way, they EARNED it.

As was said, the music biz is not a game for whiners. You have to have IT. Whatever IT is at the moment. Maybe at some point you'll get lucky and IT will come around to something you have, like the anti-talent garage mentality that swings into favor on occasion. And then it will still depend on how well you do that thing you do, how you play the game, and a little bit o luck. All this rampant entitlement does is make life tougher for the talented but unknown to get their hands on decent instruments.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Wow! Some of these folks should try to get a session playing for McCartney, or try to buy an amp from Alexander Dumble. There's a guy who absolutely had it with entitled bedroom players ordering amps and then complaining on-line that they didn't end up sounding like Larry Carlton or Robben Ford. So he just closed up the public front and kept to making stuff for people he knew, or came recommended by people he knew. Same as how he got rolling. Makes life much simpler. Except for all the wealthy collectors who've bid the 200 or so amps in circulation up near $100G. Only those with big money get to exercise their entitlement. But HAD won't touch anything they bought on the open market. If it breaks or doesn't make them sound like Robben, they're on their own.

The folks with endorsements got them the old fashioned way, they EARNED it.

As was said, the music biz is not a game for whiners. You have to have IT. Whatever IT is at the moment. Maybe at some point you'll get lucky and IT will come around to something you have, like the anti-talent garage mentality that swings into favor on occasion. And then it will still depend on how well you do that thing you do, how you play the game, and a little bit o luck. All this rampant entitlement does is make life tougher for the talented but unknown to get their hands on decent instruments.
+10000^ This.I'll say it again.If anyone dosen't like the percieved"attitude",or the clearly definded company ,no nonsense no PC policy about the criteria for artists to endorce their products..........(as they say in NY City),walk east till your hat floats.

Steve B
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
The folks with endorsements got them the old fashioned way, they EARNED it.

As was said, the music biz is not a game for whiners. You have to have IT. Whatever IT is at the moment. Maybe at some point you'll get lucky and IT will come around to something you have, like the anti-talent garage mentality that swings into favor on occasion. And then it will still depend on how well you do that thing you do, how you play the game, and a little bit o luck. All this rampant entitlement does is make life tougher for the talented but unknown to get their hands on decent instruments.
^ This.

The aspect that gets lost in much of these conversations is just because one gets an endorsement deal, that doesn't mean one is set for life. One has to earn the right to keep the endorsement too. Respect and support is a two way street.

The music business is fickle. Tours end. Albums run their course. Just because a player has reached a certain level doesn't mean that player will still be on that level next year. Which isn't to say a company will drop you as soon as your gig ends, but the smart players understand it is a relationship, and it takes two to tango, so to speak.

The A/R guys have budgets they have to stay with in too. They can't give everyone everything. Unless you're a huge name, there is a limit to what a company can do for you. Again, the smart players know where their limits are, and don't cross them. They understand if they're in-between jobs, and they need something, they have to ask nicely.
 

picodon

Silver Member
Nowadays with so many pro drummers telling the rest of the drumming world how much they like product X on forums like these -- for free! -- the value that one endorsement deal represents to a manufacturing company must have plunged quite a bit, I would figure.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Nowadays with so many pro drummers telling the rest of the drumming world how much they like product X on forums like these -- for free! -- the value that one endorsement deal represents to a manufacturing company must have plunged quite a bit, I would figure.
Well, that depends on the drummer in question, and the particular forum(s). Companies are aware and sensitive to the persuasion and exposure power of the internet in general, but there is still a heirarchy within those ranks, just as there is among pro players who have real life visibility. In fact, there's a term for players who have good exposure both in the working musician world, and on forums like this - they're called "double assets". According to the companies I endorse, because I have a 20 year online presence and am very accessible, I fall into that category. :)

But that doesn't mean just because someone likes a brand and is willing to talk about it to a relative handful of drummers in a forum, that they're necessarily entitled to an endorsement deal. As I mentioned before, if everyone who is brand loyal has a direct deal for their product, stores won't be able to sell that brand, and the company erodes its dealer network. Unless it's a company that doesn't need dealers, that severely limits their business. Companies just can't hand out deals to everyone who asks, and smart companies draw a line regarding who qualifies, and they stick to it.

So, if a drummer doesn't qualify for an endorserment in the first place, it's likely they also don't possess enough influence on forums, and therefore would have no adverse effect on sales.

Bermuda
 
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T

The Old Hyde

Guest
I always knew Bermuda was a double as...oh you wrote asset, never mind
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Cymbal Masters was the distributor for Bosphorus, but separated and created Crescent over a year ago. That's undoubtedly an old page, and I don't see where it's linked, where did you stumble on that? I'll let Michael know.

Bermuda
 
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Kenflux

Member
Bo,

you didn't get money cause i bought a sonor safari.... i am shocked.

but thanks anyway. cost me a bit to ship it to australia but it was worth it,

off topic i know, but someone had to rouse Bo
 

Acidline303

Senior Member
I see absolutely nothing wrong with how Crescent handled that back and forth on Facebook. Yeah maybe the responses could have been interpreted as "gruff" but he stayed on a straight, factual path which outlined their philosophy behind people endorsing their gear. And the criteria are no different than any other successful brand of musical equipment, only difference is most of them don't even gift you with that much of an idea of what they want.

I think some people will look at a newer company like Crescent playing by big name company strategies and think theyre arrogant and have some kind of audacity, but if Crescent wants to eventually be a company with a wider scope, I can't fault them for running their business like one from the start.

Spaun has a very similar list of criteria for endorsement on their page as well. It's cold, factual, and to the point. I would love to endorse them one day, but I dont get upset that I'm not above their endorsement cutoff, nor do I need them to paint rainbows and blow bubbles around their policy that tells me "You have to be at this level" and "we dont give away free stuff"

In short. I dont see a problem here.
 
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