Can DragonForce perform (properly) live?

BassDriver

Silver Member
Yeah, they have this technique used in "digital mastering" where notes are put in the place using quatisizing.

So I'm asking fellow drummerworld drummers, are DragonForce fakers or are they true?

Now about DragonForce's drummer, what he plays is possible (I already know there are black metal songs that are faster that don't have much mixing or editing) but I think this debate comes about from DF's two guitar players because of their solos (obviously alot of people haven't heard a tremolo picked guitar solo at 200+ bpm before GH3), and how the melody of their songs is almost completely driven by them two.

So I ask, is it it even possible to quantisize guitar tracks?

I ask because i know it is already possible with recording drums and synths, but once you get an electric guitar's complex signal and run it through an amp and all that electronic processing that goes through a pre-amp and FX pedals and what not, is it still possible.

I'm not sure what to say, but I'm just saying that DF's music is possible in the studio and live without quatisizing; I mean Dream Theater, Rush, Meshuggah and Steve Vai performed much more complex and technical songs and they are spot-on live.
 
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DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Well, it's true, some of the new features in protools 8 lets anyone take any bit of audio and literally stretch it out to fit whatever time you want. So it's very possible to quantize any instrument (time consuming perhaps, but possible).

I don't know much about Dragonforce. I listened to a few of their songs once, and decided it was not for me.
 

Migaluch

Senior Member
Dragonforce always sounded cheesy to me. If the guitarists are speeding up their music, then isnt that just like synthesizing vocals and calling it musical talent? If they are doing that then i cant show any respect for them.


DREAM THEATER!!!!!!
 

BassDriver

Silver Member
That was awesome!

All the other videos of them live show them drunk as piss and everything is like a blur, but usually those are filmed with camcorders that make it seem even worse.

Herman should clean up his technique, he is fast but not very precise.

There are much more complicated and technical works by other artists but that was good, even if they mixed loads in studio they are still half-decent live, some bands are like that, while others are better live than studio.

So...conclusion:

Quantisizing is possible with electric guitar.
DragonForce are half-decent live (Dream Theater is still way better live), but hey t.he band does't care if guys like us like or hate 'em, they still have crowds that rock up and like them.
Did DF cheat in studio? IDK don't care.
 
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Big_Philly

Guest
I can't find it at the moment, but I recall a video of DF performing Through the Fire and Flames live, and the guitars and drums were completely out of sync in the beginning, though this was corrected after a few seconds. So I tend to agree: they're sloppy with their tempo's live.
 

joeysnare

Silver Member
i was reading up on this, that would be their show at grasspop 2006, apparently the sound techs had done such a bad job that day that no one in dragonforce could hear anything. Anyway because of this out of sync playing ensues and dragonforce is now labled a band that cant play their own music live. but it seems to not be true if you watch their perfomance at grasspop 2009 its like night and day, very tight. either that or 3 years of practice has fixed the problem.
 
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Big_Philly

Guest
i was reading up on this, that would be their show at grasspop 2006, apparently the sound techs had done such a bad job that day that no one in dragonforce could hear anything. Anyway because of this out of sync playing ensues and dragonforce is now labled a band that cant play their own music live. but it seems to not be true if you watch their perfomance at grasspop 2009 its like night and day, very tight. either that or 3 years of practice has fixed the problem.
Yeah I was reading about that same thing on wikipedia an hour ago or so - but only after my previous post. My bad...
 

Average

Senior Member
Playing big stages like that is a totally different ballgame than playing small clubs where you are just a few feet away from all the other members of the band. If you don't have a good monitor mix you're hanging out there in the breeze. It can really get bad if you are hearing echos coming back. Its happened to us a couple times and it sucks. The guys in Dragonforce seem like they are pretty accomplished musicians. I'd be willing to bet that the times they get out of sync are more because they can't hear each other.
 

ahector

Senior Member
Short answer: No.

I made the mistake of seeing them a couple years ago and it awful. Every video (including the one linked above) I've ever seen of them playing live is sloppy and their singer is all over the place (and I'm not talking about running around the stage).
 

JPW

Silver Member
Short answer: No.

I made the mistake of seeing them a couple years ago and it awful. Every video (including the one linked above) I've ever seen of them playing live is sloppy and their singer is all over the place (and I'm not talking about running around the stage).
I guess it's hard to play when you jump on a trampoline at the same time. Well it isn't as much art as it's entertainment. So I wouldn't put my jazz police uniform on when going on their gig. =P
 

ahector

Senior Member
I guess it's hard to play when you jump on a trampoline at the same time. Well it isn't as much art as it's entertainment. So I wouldn't put my jazz police uniform on when going on their gig. =P
Sure, and if people don't mind that they sound terrible, then more power to them. I'm not knocking Dragonforce for their schtick or anyone that happens to be a fan of them.
 

donv

Silver Member
I've seen them a couple of times while my nephew was on the bill with them. I've seen them play well, and I've seen them suck. What I saw was they like their beer, and suspect that is what controls how good they are on any given day.
 

sticksnstonesrus

Silver Member
Funny. I wonder if any member of DF gives a rats ass what anyone is saying here or anywhere for that mattter.

Sloppy or not, they're playing for 75K+ crowds...and love em or hate em'...a large percentage of people on this very board would trade it in a heartbeat to be there too....

I'll bet half of those people would change their tune about what it's like to play what DF does (or tries to) consistently and accurately in so many different environments where the controlling variables are constantly changing. Frankly, I'm kind of surprised that some people throw the suck stone at them. Even more so, at anyone who has to play the same show 3-6 shows a week. What a grinder....
 

arthurk1

Senior Member
I totally thought I wouldn't like em and then watched that video and thought they were super cool. You can't tell me that getting to play drums like that wouldn't be a blast on big stages and all. I like 'em!
 

theindian

Senior Member
o....
I'll bet half of those people would change their tune about what it's like to play what DF does (or tries to) consistently and accurately in so many different environments where the controlling variables are constantly changing. Frankly, I'm kind of surprised that some people throw the suck stone at them. Even more so, at anyone who has to play the same show 3-6 shows a week. What a grinder....
I don't say they are sloppy with a light heart. I went to see them a few years ago and they were all right, but overall they were not very tight. Not just the guitar, but vox and keys too. They did not sound very good. The drummer was spot on though, but a little repetitive. I give them credit, its hard music, and is also very technical.

In contrast, I have seen bands like Morbid Angel and Cryptopsy and they were really tight. While they are death metal (and not exactly comparable genre wise), they also play really fast and have technical solos and such. They were great. Gamma Ray, who is a little more a long the lines of DF, was really good too. Sure everyone has an off night and we all make mistakes, it just seems that if your going to be in a band that play fast and has a lot of notes, you would be sure you could pull it off live.
 

Therma lobsterdore

Senior Member
Yeah well said, I saw Nile, Ulcerate and Krisiun the other night and they are all incredibly fast and complex, Nile and Ulcerate both more so than DF, and they were all tight as a gnat's chuff. In fact I've seen scores of fast, technical metal bands and I've rarely noticed a screw up. Yet every time I have seen dragonforce, both on stage and on youtube, they haven't sounded too good at all. I won't pay to see them live ever again in fact! If your going to write music, make sure you can play it without the aid of a computer, it's quite a simple idea really.
 

ahector

Senior Member
Funny. I wonder if any member of DF gives a rats ass what anyone is saying here or anywhere for that mattter.

Sloppy or not, they're playing for 75K+ crowds...and love em or hate em'...a large percentage of people on this very board would trade it in a heartbeat to be there too....

I'll bet half of those people would change their tune about what it's like to play what DF does (or tries to) consistently and accurately in so many different environments where the controlling variables are constantly changing. Frankly, I'm kind of surprised that some people throw the suck stone at them. Even more so, at anyone who has to play the same show 3-6 shows a week. What a grinder....
The thread was about whether they can actually play the stuff on their records in a live situation. This isn't about whether you or I would take a gig with a huge band that plays enormous concerts (sure, I would if I could... that sounds way better than my day job. So what?)

I was just saying that the aren't a very good live band, technically speaking. Their singer is off pitch, the guitar playing is sloppy, etc.

I understand that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for it (they're drunk, they're more concerned with stage antics and entertaining the crowd, it's hard to play really fast, technical material, etc), and I understand to some people it doesn't sound bad or that some people don't care if it sounds bad.

And the last two posters make a good point: there are tons of bands and groups of all sorts of different musical genres that play even more difficult/fast/complex material live and pull it off. On a personal note, I'm with these guys... if you are going to write some music, no matter how difficult it is, be able to actually play it well.

But there is enough room in this world for DragonForce and some people on drummerworld.com who don't think they are any good. Peace and love and all of that :p
 

sticksnstonesrus

Silver Member
The thread was about whether they can actually play the stuff on their records in a live situation. This isn't about whether you or I would take a gig with a huge band that plays enormous concerts (sure, I would if I could... that sounds way better than my day job. So what?)

I was just saying that the aren't a very good live band, technically speaking. Their singer is off pitch, the guitar playing is sloppy, etc.

I understand that there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for it (they're drunk, they're more concerned with stage antics and entertaining the crowd, it's hard to play really fast, technical material, etc), and I understand to some people it doesn't sound bad or that some people don't care if it sounds bad.

And the last two posters make a good point: there are tons of bands and groups of all sorts of different musical genres that play even more difficult/fast/complex material live and pull it off. On a personal note, I'm with these guys... if you are going to write some music, no matter how difficult it is, be able to actually play it well.

But there is enough room in this world for DragonForce and some people on drummerworld.com who don't think they are any good. Peace and love and all of that :p
Truth be told brother. I'm not a Dragonforce fan at all.

I don't particularly care if their live show is an exact replica of their album work. Personally, I think people who come to see you, should get something more than they can already hear on your album. Not really sure how some bands can improve on what they do, maybe the visual and some different renditions of the already great...but if it detracts from the presentation, whatever it may have become, it isn't something that represents a band tastefully, or well.

A fallout of that, obviously is people talk. Which lends to your credibility and integrity as a musician(s).

I was merely advocating the devil in that DF, seeming could either: not care or just really not be that good live.

My own philosophy reaches into that if we can't reproduce it live, it doesn't get played. For instance, we didn't put manipulate notes or timings or anything on our last production....and for the most part, I chose to lay back a lot more so that when we do play live, there is some room for a little more creativity on all of our behalves.

Just .02.
 
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