Buddy out of his comfort zone?

Virgual Reality

Junior Member
HAHA...he smashed right through the floor tom!

This definitely was not Buddy Rich at his best. I personally think though that for 1973 the times were changing and I guess so was the music. This wasn't the kind of jazz people most often associate with Buddy's style and the era of jazz he came from during the height of his career. So yea, out of his comfort zone for real.
 

Bruce M. Thomson

Gold Member
that was definitely planned....the floor tom I mean

you can see that it is split the whole time and probably taped together

and he and Ed Shaughnessy were friends so the stick throwing Im sure was light hearted and more theatrical than ill intended
Shaughnessy was always playing tricks on him, most notably he had a cymbal replaced with a movie candy (used in fight scenes with bottles breaking) and it looked real; of course when buddy went to hit it he was shocked as hell. This is a story that Shaughnessy tells but I have never seen the video from the Johnny Carson Show.
 

robyn64

Member
I actually remember watching this episode of johnny with buddy (along with all the others). that was when i fell in love with buddy. he may not have been the best drummer ever, (who is) but in my eyes he was and he was/is my all time favorite drummer.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Not his best performance to be sure,but way better than most.He was just a little out of his element with that tune.If it had been "Love For Sale",you would have seen a different Buddy.It also wasn't his kit.How many of you guys set up and measure everything to make sure it's all exactly the same,before you play?Buddy played what was in front of him.

We all perform differently out of our element.Take a professional NASCAR driver,and put him in a Baja race and he wouldn't know what to do.Take a Pro Bass fisherman,and take him deep sea fishing for Marlin,and sit back and watch the show,
Take most drummers today,and sit them behind Buddys band or any big band,and see how well they can drive it.
Very few guys out ther can do it all....except for ....Vinny.... maybe.:)


Steve B
 

Longfuse

Senior Member
Not his best performance, but not abysmal or anything...although it did feel like I was watching a Planet of the Apes rerun...bad hair day??
 

Chunky

Silver Member
Er, Neil Peart perhaps? (Or it could be spelled Noil Port. I'm a bit confused from another thread.)
Lol, so true! how did I miss him?!

Never been a fan. And although I love proggy and technical time wizards I've never classed him as one ever.
But who am I to look down at him, he doesn't class me as anything 'cos I don't exist! lol.

DrumEatDrum - I agree with what you say. I'm sure when I hit that age I'll be set in my ways too.

I was just pointing out how he's enjoyed a lifetime (and more) of hero worship as being one of if not the best drummers to ever have lived while only really dipping his toes into music as a whole.

For the styles he did stick too however he deserves all the credit he gets and more. The man was not a man, he was something else!

I remember the first time I heard him tearing the kit up, I nearly died, his snare rolls sounded like paper ripping. I couldn't believe it. Still can't really...
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
Phew, you don't want Buddy Rich throwing drumsticks at you. I just got around to watching this. He's fine, there's just a little bit of phasing with the band during the main part of the tune and with the bass player at the beginning of the solo. It happens. Probably the sound sucked, and very possibly the band didn't even rehearse the tune with Buddy. Otherwise he plays about like you'd expect for a feature on the Tonight Show in 1973.
 

LinearDrummer

Silver Member
I find it hard to imagine how someone at Buddy's level could have difficulty with simple rock beats.
But this clip shows that he indeed did have issues with sraight 8th note feels...obviously he's one of the greatest ever, but this shows there is no such thing as the perfect drummer!

No matter how good you are if you dont practice sumthin outside your comfort level - it can be a train wreck...

No disrespect to a legend but this clip is an absolute mess !
 
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DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
no other drummer from any era who sticks to such a limited range would ever enjoy the kudos this guy gets. It would be used against anyone else so why not Buddy?
While you are correct, to be fair, when Buddy started, there were no different styles.

Buddy was a working drummer decades before many of the other genres we consider to "versatile" were even invented.

Buddy was already in his mid thirties when rock was in it's infancy, and in his 40's when rock passed jazz as the more popular form of music. When Buddy was in his formative years, being "versatile" wasn't even a consideration; the only music anyone used a drum set for at the time was swing music.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Buddy was pretty good at that "boogaloo" type of rock playing. The early rock innovators all had a touch of that in them -- Bobby Columby, Mitch Mitchell, Ansley Dunbar. The funk guys like Purdie, Grady Tate and Clyde Stubberfield had it in a "tighter" fashion. They were the best. But around the middle 70's, playing in general got heavier and more precise. Bruford, Cobham, Porcaro, Harvey Mason, Steve Smith, Peart, Garabaldi -- were all doing things that were alien to Buddy and his generation and he could not make the transition.
Yeah, I agree with this.
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
I'm not the world's biggest Rich fan and I've seen the Morris Jennings clip before, but I think some of the talk about Buddy having trouble with rock grooves is a bit overstated (this clip aside, because he really isn't that sharp in this particular instance). He plays straight 8ths on the original recording of Mercy, Mercy, Mercy and sounds like he's been doing it his whole life, and that record came out back in 1968. There may be examples before that, but he owned that tune and sounded very comfortable in the style.
Buddy was pretty good at that "boogaloo" type of rock playing. The early rock innovators all had a touch of that in them -- Bobby Columby, Mitch Mitchell, Ansley Dunbar. The funk guys like Purdie, Grady Tate and Clyde Stubberfield had it in a "tighter" fashion. They were the best. But around the middle 70's, playing in general got heavier and more precise. Bruford, Cobham, Porcaro, Harvey Mason, Steve Smith, Peart, Garabaldi -- were all doing things that were alien to Buddy and his generation and he could not make the transition.
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
I'm not the world's biggest Rich fan and I've seen the Morris Jennings clip before, but I think some of the talk about Buddy having trouble with rock grooves is a bit overstated (this clip aside, because he really isn't that sharp in this particular instance). He plays straight 8ths on the original recording of Mercy, Mercy, Mercy and sounds like he's been doing it his whole life, and that record came out back in 1968. There may be examples before that, but he owned that tune and sounded very comfortable in the style.
 
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Anthony Amodeo

Guest
It sounded to me like the band was not playing like Rich's own band. The bass player in the BR band was always right with buddy. This guy in the clip is more relaxed and wasn't following Buddy in quite the same way as he might be used to. So it sounds like Buddy is sloppy when in fact he was probably just trying to drive the song on. This issue was probably down to poor sound all round. If you can't hear clearly what the other guy is playing then you're bound to end up with a messy performance. The whole thing probably knocked BR off his stride a bit, he certainly seemed a bit annoyed and was looking around a lot early on in the piece. Still, like a true pro, he carried on regardless.
it's Doc Severinsen and the Tonight Show band....whom Buddy had played with dozens of times

and it didn't "sound like" Buddy was sloppy.......Buddy was sloppy

just out of his element thats all......he was not a back beat player.....it's known that he had trouble kicking rock or funk type grooves

understandable .....he had been playing jazz since the vaudeville era....it was the music industry that tried to make him sound "modern"
 

Chunky

Silver Member
I agree :)

Hey man, nice to see you back, were have you been?
It's good to be back! I've missed this place.

Been getting the superglue and sellotape out trying to fix my broken life. Breaking up with girlfriend, fighting over the custody of kids and getting ill again.

Kind of have the life part a bit more stable. The health bit might take a bit longer but.....nothing I can do about that.

Feels like forever since I've been on here. I thought I forgot how to spell. I didn't I just forgot that I never could...

Good to see you again!
 

Chunky

Silver Member
Thid is exactly why I hate people declaring Buddy is the best drummer who ever lived.

There is no such thing.

He stuck to what he loved all his life and that's fine, do what you love and love what you do but, no other drummer from any era who sticks to such a limited range would ever enjoy the kudos this guy gets. It would be used against anyone else so why not Buddy?

Personally I think he's great, amazing, love watching him, love his showmanship but, I guess it goes to show you can practise as much as you like and some things will just be YOU and others won't.
Maybe he was human afterall?

Barely but, still human...

I find this as intimidating as I find it reassuring...
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
Here's an interview with Morris Jennings where he discusses trying to teach Buddy how to approach playing rock (I think this was a year or two after the Carson clip): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdzC3CuTeTA
I find it hard to imagine how someone at Buddy's level could have difficulty with simple rock beats. It's the kind of yawning technique gap you would have expected from someone like Moonie. But he seems to land in that Ringo zone of semi shuffled 8s.

I like the link, Nelson. His playing is studio session material but it works for me.
 
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plangentmusic

Guest
that explains everything
Very interesting! But if that was the Buddy disco album "Speak no Evil" it was absolutely horrible. He was stripped of all he does. The music stunk and the band sounded like Wedding musicians playing outdated pop music.

A better "teacher" would have been a drummer who could play funk but had some chops (Cobham, Mouzon, Gadd, Harvey Mason) where Buddy could have learned something more interesting and at least melded the two styles a little better. Maybe.

I remember this was the best track. Haven't heard it in years though it's interesting hearing it with more mature ears. The timing is all over the place! Buddy never learn to lock into the 8th notes. And I must say -- between loving Buddy and Mitch Mitchell, it took me a long time to learn how to play into the bass as opposed of on top of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ6xkbgWxXY
 
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