Band Etiquette / Nicking Members

Witterings

Silver Member
Hi all,
Sorry it's going to be long winded post this one but I'm really interested to see what other people's opinions are on a situation and where people stand on band etiquette / nicking people from a band you're in to work in another band.
As I'm sure most of us have experienced I've spent years trying to put bands together, posting adverts, trying people out to be 2 months into rehearsing and someone says the musics not for me and the band falls apart and you're back to square one again as someone else says well we're not a complete band now so I'm going to leave and join a "gig ready" band - this in itself can be totally soul destroying as you try to get up to gig standard with the same set list for an 8th time and just as you're getting there it comes to an abrupt halt

With family and social life as well I got fed up trawling out Friday and Saturday evenings to drive miles to do a gig and not even cover the cost of ppetrol so I decided I was going to try and set up a band just to do weekday gigs and avoid weekends playing mainly for the love of it rather than money and just doing local venues so it doesn't cost a fortune in petrol.

The advert I placed very specifically said looking for Guitarist or Bassist or Vocalist for Mid Week Gigs and not looking to do weekends as I thought there must be people in the same situation as me but still wanted to play and was absolutely up front about if from the start including raising concerns that people may not want to be in a band that doesn't do weekend gigs.

The people I had applying were often in other bands which were doing weekend gigs and saw this as a great opportunity to do something else mid week to get more of their "FIX" without interfering with their other band.

The bass player and guitarist have since had problems with their own bands and are wondering what future they hold so have gone behind my back and started talking about putting together another band to do functions / weddings at the weekends.
When I found out I didn't say anything although I was a bit put out and thought as long as it doesn't interfere with my band OK, bite your tongue.
The female vocalist we have is someone I knew from a band a few years ago and hadn't done anything for over 2 / 3 years and it was me that bought her in to join us and I found out yesterday that they've also approached her to see if she wants to join them and that they have another drummer which is from the guitarists other band which he thinks is falling apart because of their lead singer.
In essence I see this as them taking my band that I've taken 7 years to try and find, the right people for and getting a different drummer so they can do weekends as well when they all knew right from the start that it was being set up as a mid week band only.

The bass player I believe has been the main influence behind it, he seems like a really nice guy on the surface but is a little either OCD about playing to the extent of someone who works with special needs children saying it really wouldn't surprise him if he had an incredibly mild case of autism or asperger's.
I don't have a problem with that and if he wants to play every minute of his life then please do, but don't walk in and take my band members but instead get off your own ass as I've done, write and post your own adverts and find your own people don't just go nicking others people's from behind their back !!!
The guitarist, again they have "issues" with their singer at the moment, not a problem, write you own adverts and go through the audition process and take years, as I have to find your own people, don't just nick them from a band that someone else has put the hard work in trying to put together.
These people have all been welcomed into my home where we rehearse and for the 1st few months I was also an endless supply of beer to them and now I just feel like I've been totally shat upon from a great height and am genuinely really hurt ... especially as and I thought the bass player had become a close friend!
A guitarist I played with a while ago but had to stop because of his work commitments nipped into where I worked yesterday and I told him what had happened, he knows how hard I've worked to put this together and just sat there and said, "I'm absolutely livid, he said I'm so enraged I'm shaking for you, on a scale of 1 to 10 of how out of order I think that is I think it's an 11.

I could just stand back and say OK so they're going to do weekend gigs and we'll keep the week day thing going but are they seriously going to have 2 totally different set lists or just the one so they don't have to learn it all again in which case they'll have one band that uses 2 drummers ........ one for mid week gigs and the other for weekends.
I honestly can't see that'll work long term as why are they going to want to rehearse the same set list twice just so 2 different drummers are up to gig standard and when the other drummers says he can do weekdays as well what happens then, I think I can see where this is heading!

I was bought up thinking if you're invited round to a friends for dinner and they have another couple there, you don't start asking the other couple behind your hosts back if they'd like to go out some time or come round to yours for dinner without the host, maybe I was bought up in an old fashioned way but that's what I've believed to be right and it's how I've treated etiquette in bands / band members.

Apologies for such a long post and I really do appreciate anyone that's taken the time to read it all and posts a reply! As you may have gathered I feel genuinely aggrieved and hurt, especially as I thought one had become a close friend and he seems to be the main instigator going behind my back, I really would be interested to hear what other people's opinions are and if you think I'm being too precious about it or do you think I've been seriously shit upon but they waited until my mouth was open to do it ???

I'm really feeling I play for the love of playing and I've totally lost trust in these people. That's making me ask if they're really like that............ do I want to be in a band with or have anything to do with them and I'll constantly be watching my back.

Any input, even if it's to tell me I'm being a complete twat over it and I have a distorted view of it really would be greatly appreciated, or any idea's what you'd do in this situation ???

This is an edit with a bit of an afterthought, I could of found it easier to swallow if they'd all got together with me and said sorry things have changed and we all want to do weekend gigs now will you join us instead of going behind my back and finding another drummer instead !!!!
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Unless they're getting paid for regular work with you, you're gonna struggle to claim any hold over them.

Two things in your post stand out to me. "Avoid weekends" and "playing mainly for the love of it." In all honesty, they are just not words that instill confidence in people trying to earn from their talents. For mine, it stands to reason they may want to branch out and do a little more. Just because you want to pick and choose what terms you're prepared to take, is it really reasonable to expect that they must also follow suit? And similarly, just because they've agreed to those terms, is it also reasonable to expect that they can't take other work on weekends as well?
 

Witterings

Silver Member
Unless they're getting paid for regular work with you, you're gonna struggle to claim any hold over them.

Two things in your post stand out to me. "Avoid weekends" and "playing mainly for the love of it." In all honesty, they are just not words that instill confidence in people trying to earn from their talents. For mine, it stands to reason they may want to branch out and do a little more. Just because you want to pick and choose what terms you're prepared to take, is it really reasonable to expect that they must also follow suit? And similarly, just because they've agreed to those terms, is it also reasonable to expect that they can't take other work on weekends as well?
Yes except when someone advertises mid week only why apply if you want go and do weekend gigs with that band, much the same as I'm not applying for bands that are "Working bands" as I know that'll predominantly be weekend work !!
Also none of these people do it for a living it's just a hobby and supposedly some "mates" getting together to play and if we happen to earn some money along the way then great that's just an added bonus.
I'm not stopping them from being in as many bands as they like, I'm only asking that what they do doesn't interfere with a band I've worked so hard to put together and maybe to show the slightest bit of loyalty to the person that bought them together in the 1st place.
 

mikeyhanson

Silver Member
Yeah, I agree with Pocket here. In a way, you have determined your own fate a bit by insisting on only doing stuff mid-week and sticking to it. It'll probably take a commitment of willingness to do weekends [and pretty much anything else they asked] to keep the position.
While it sucks to see the whole thing getting away from you like that, put yourself in the position of them. They see a future, and understand that they need to play weekends. How long will they be willing to put up with a two-drummer concept? That means double the rehearsals for them, which could potentially be double the frustration, which could potentially be taken out on you.
If it was me, I'd do one of two things: either commit completely, or start looking for other people to play music with on weekdays.
 

Witterings

Silver Member
If it was me, I'd do one of two things: either commit completely, or start looking for other people to play music with on weekdays.
But aren't you missing the whole point of what I posted that's exactly what I did do !!!!!!!!!!

Right from the very start the advert said ONLY for mid week gigs, when I spoke to each and every one of them I said I don't want to do weekends because of family commitments and if that's what you're looking to do this isn't the band for you !!!!!!

I very clearly spelt it out right from them seeing the advert and when I spoke to them before they even came round for a trial !!!!!!!!!! How much clearer could I of been ???????? What should I of said ????
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Yes except when someone advertises mid week only why apply if you want go and do weekend gigs with that band, much the same as I'm not applying for bands that are "Working bands" as I know that'll predominantly be weekend work !!
Also none of these people do it for a living it's just a hobby and supposedly some "mates" getting together to play and if we happen to earn some money along the way then great that's just an added bonus.
I'm not stopping them from being in as many bands as they like, I'm only asking that what they do doesn't interfere with a band I've worked so hard to put together and maybe to show the slightest bit of loyalty to the person that bought them together in the 1st place.
Quite simply, the bands that work regularly and whose members get paid stand a better chance of keeping said members. Even then, it's no guarantee. Such is the fickleness of the path we've chosen mate. But all in all, regardless of if they're full time musos or not, most guys like regular work with some financial rewards to boot. If you can offer that, great. If you're not, then be prepared for guys to move on to a gig that can.....even the guys who are initially happy to play on a Tuesday night for nothing usually want to branch out once they realise that they can actually earn from their services.
In my experience, most "working musos" expect to be paid.....full time professional or part time journeyman alike. 'Tis the way of it I'm afraid.
 

Witterings

Silver Member
Though I'd post an exact copy of the advert in case I hadn't been clear in it at all

Midweek Gig / Looking For Musicians


Married with kids, have a social life and don't want to be out gigging every Friday and Saturday night but still love music - - - does this sound familiar.
There must be other people out there in the same situation as me and my love of playing is too much to give it up altogether.
I can practice / gig Mondays though to Thursdays and want to try and put a band together to go out and get Mid Week gigs and am happy to work with pubs charging less initially and more as we gain a following and can bring a crowd.
I'd ike to hear from any Bass Player's, Guitarists, Vocalists and Keyboardist that think they may fit. I possibly have a very good Rhythm Guitarist / Vocalist I could coerce into joining us and have played with / gigged extensively in the past.
Looking to mainly do covers and will consider most music that will be well received in a pub but also happy to mess around with the occassional original and want this to be fun, for the love of playing and because people want to be there doing what they like best with other competant musicians.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
But I've never asked for exclusivity only that they don't take apart something that I've put together, as I say they each individually go and start or join as many band as they like !!!
But I still don't get how it is taking apart what you've put together? They want to expand and work weekends. You've always said you don't want to, so they've found someone who does and are going for it.

They were in other bands when you hooked up, all that's changed is that "other band" will now be a few of the same guys who are in your band. This sort of stuff happens every day of the week. Musicians who are familiar with one another work together in different projects all the time. I really don't get the big deal mate. Unless they start doing mid-week gigs with the other drummer, I really don't see how you're being put out here.
 

Nickropolis

Senior Member
I'm really feeling I play for the love of playing and I've totally lost trust in these people. That's making me ask if they're really like that............ do I want to be in a band with or have anything to do with them and I'll constantly be watching my back.
My general feelings would be somewhere around this.

If a person does something that goes against my basic groundwork of principals (lying, cheating, stealing, etc) then there's usually very little that can be done to bring it back. Some lines are only able to be crossed one way.
 

Witterings

Silver Member
But I still don't get how it is taking apart what you've put together? They want to expand and work weekends. You've always said you don't want to, so they've found someone who does and are going for it.

They were in other bands when you hooked up, all that's changed is that "other band" will now be a few of the same guys who are in your band. This sort of stuff happens every day of the week. Musicians who are familiar with one another work together in different projects all the time. I really don't get the big deal mate. Unless they start doing mid-week gigs with the other drummer, I really don't see how you're being put out here.
I just honestly don't see down the road that they're going to want to rehearse the same set list with 2 different drummers, use one during the week and the other at weekends when the chances are the one doing the weekends can probably do the weekdays as well and if they do it'll only last a short while.
I could be wrong .................... but I doubt it!
 

Witterings

Silver Member
My general feelings would be somewhere around this.

If a person does something that goes against my basic groundwork of principals (lying, cheating, stealing, etc) then there's usually very little that can be done to bring it back. Some lines are only able to be crossed one way.
At least someone kind of gets where I'm at!
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
Witt, it seem to me that you're looking for players who don't want to gig weekends but instead you're finding weekend giggers who just want to play out more.

A lot of people aren't wild about midweek gigs because it can be hard to back up for work the next day.
 

mikeyhanson

Silver Member
But aren't you missing the whole point of what I posted that's exactly what I did do !!!!!!!!!!

Right from the very start the advert said ONLY for mid week gigs, when I spoke to each and every one of them I said I don't want to do weekends because of family commitments and if that's what you're looking to do this isn't the band for you !!!!!!

I very clearly spelt it out right from them seeing the advert and when I spoke to them before they even came round for a trial !!!!!!!!!! How much clearer could I of been ???????? What should I of said ????
I understand your frustration, and I get it. But I think that, given what parameters you've laid down, you'd have to eventually expect problems to arise. How else could you not? Sure, many of your bandmembers may have felt that weekdays would be okay at the start, but perhaps the band had gotten good enough to the point where people thought they'd like to pursue it further. It's not only natural for a band to progress in some direction, but it can be almost destructive to try and slow a band's progress, especially if everyone else in the band wants to do something.
And I understand you tried to be as clear as possible in your advert. Problem is, everybody reads things differently, and some people only catch the keywords they're looking for. One might think, "yeah, this will be fun for awhile until something better comes along," and how can you fault them for that?
 

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
Plenty of people will read an advert but overlook the finer details because the simple/general prospect e.g JOIN BAND is staring them in the face.

I don't think you're being a twat, I think you have every right to feel the way you do, you present your case well and I think you should tell them exactly what you said here and see what reaction you get, if only to get some reassurance that they're not going to cut you out. Maybe they don't realize what they're doing is slack.

How did you find out anyway?
 

Witterings

Silver Member
How did you find out anyway?
We'd been struggling for a place to rehearse and the singer said how about we try above my office come and have a look and see if you think it's OK to use. I was round there yesterday, we'd also been discussing buying a pa system between us and I happened to mention to her if I was putting in my share then I'd only want it used for our band rather than trashed by other people so it doesn't work when we have gigs and she said she thought the bass player would want to use it in another band and that he and the guitarist had approached her about starting another band and did she want to join them.

I guess I'm pissed off that it seems I can't play an a quality band unless I want to do wweekends which has a serious impact on my home life and I've done eveything I felt I could to be totally upfront and honest with people!
 

Witterings

Silver Member
Just thinking this through and following the principle of it's OK through a a bit more, if his Mrs likes it up the back door and I happen to as well but it's not his thing or if she likes it in the morning and he prefers evenings or if she likes it 8 times a week and he only likes it twice, is it OK for me to go and satisfy her needs because strangely it kind feels like I'm the one that's getting it up the rear.
 

mikeyhanson

Silver Member
Well, it sucks the way you found out about the new band [they could have dealt with that better], and it's unfortunate that your schedule doesn't allow you to play on weekends. You just need to find the right guys. They exist. Sorry this happened to you.
 

soulfly28

Senior Member
Just ask about it? If they are only playing on weekends and working on originals, I personally don't see a problem. It has been said they may just want to gig more. That's also a possibility. Don't get me wrong, I see where you are coming from on this. Just ask, try to get to the fact of the matter before anything drastic gets done.
 
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