Are endorsement deals worth it?

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
I've found this to be very untrue... Vocals are one of the only places in the music world where a woman can be successful without being treated as a novelty. Female musicians are very common, unfortunately almost all of them are vocalists.
Within the one subset of music that you're familiar with.

Women are underrepresented in Rock and, to some extent, Jazz music. Amongst Classical orchestras, there's parity.

You're only talking about Rock music. I can't admonish you for a lack of perspective, I suppose.
 

frog

Member
There's two distinct groups of endorsing artists. You're firmly in one of those groups, unfortunately, the biggest one.

There's two distinct company ethos stances too. Again, the majority are in the group you describe.

Not all artists or companies are the same (thankfully). Look for artists who have associated themselves with one company (per product) over many years to find a potentially more honest endorsement of the product.

From a company standpoint, there are some companies who don't offer much in the way of "deals". Maybe because they can't afford it, & maybe because they believe an artist should have a high degree of equity in their instrument, maybe a bit of both.


Frog, I get 20 emails a week from players who operate exactly as you do. I have a copy & paste reply at the ready for all of them. Hopefully, your post is enough to encourage all to view many endorsements with a high degree scepticism in terms of genuine admiration of the product.


yeah that very true! However my view on it is this: All the best drummers i have ever seen can play on anything, anywhere and and still sound amazing. the talent comes from the musician, not the instrument/name/logo obviously. (That is my goal eventually!)

I see endorsements nothing important. only a slight help financially. Its apparent that the less talented or successful some people are, the more nerdy they get with brands, models etc. I really want nothing to do with that side of it. its totally missing the point of music, and more getting sucked into the corporate side of music. bleagh

anyway, i don't mean to come across as a deluded wanker, but thats my take on the whole thing :)
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Back then you had the A&R person from Capitol Records calling you saying “I just signed this band and the drummer wants to play Zildjian”. You worked closely with the A&R people at various record labels with the objective of creating a mutually beneficial relationship. When you signed an artist, you knew it was a three album deal and there was $500,000 committed to videos in heavy rotation on MTV and VH-1, maybe they had a single charting on Billboard, and the label was investing “X” dollars in developing this band over the next five years.
Ah, I brought this up in another thread a while back. It's nice to see this confirmed.

Bo had something about the magazines influencing people to play one brand exclusively, compared to the 60's and 70's where drummers often mixed brands of drums. And I thought it was actually more about MTV in the 80's, when drum companies realized if they supplied gear for signed bands, the record company would pay for the video, and the drum brands would essentially get a near free 3-4 minute informercial on MTV, with the only cost being the gear itself. I know as a teen in the 80's, I'd watch MTV just to see how quickly I could identify which brand of drums, cymbals and sticks the drummer was using.
 

BillRayDrums

Gold Member
Some companies use "endorsement" as a marketing tool; it costs literally nothing to host an image and a profile of a person on the website and if it's going to help impress their friends and drive some sales, then yeah!

As far as an "oldschool endorsement"... being on the company's roster, in marketing pieces, etc... that's a bit more doing and it takes years to get into a company sometimes. You gotta show many facets of engagement. Youtube channel views, tour dates, etc... on top of being a great player. That goes without saying.

Otherwise, everyone and their dog would end up with an endorsement and it would dilute the brand and cheapen it. I worked with a cymbal company in the past as their webmaster and they nearly went under at one point with the whole "we'll give you cymbals and you pay us later" scenario. Very few actually paid.
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
This is an interview I did about 3 1/2 years ago when I was at Zildjian, but the crux of it is still relevant today. I'm not being self-indulgent; hopefully it will enlighten people as to how things really work. Bermuda, as usual, does an excellent job at educating people on this subject.

I hope this is helpful... http://www.mikedolbear.com/story.asp?StoryID=2498

Cheers!
John
John!! So good to hear from you. It was nice to briefly see you at this past NAMM. I've been following your "retirement" on facebook.

I hope you stick around this forum.

~Ian
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Thank you, and welcome to Drummerworld John! (in case I missed saying it before)

Bermuda
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
This is an interview I did about 3 1/2 years ago when I was at Zildjian, but the crux of it is still relevant today. I'm not being self-indulgent; hopefully it will enlighten people as to how things really work. Bermuda, as usual, does an excellent job at educating people on this subject.

I hope this is helpful... http://www.mikedolbear.com/story.asp?StoryID=2498

Cheers!
John
Good to see you here, John, and great interview. No surprise that you're saying the exact same thing that we keep saying, and the young turks here just don't get it... it's never about free or discounted gear, it's about the relationship between company and endorser. I'm going to start linking to this interview as well as Bermuda's FAQ when we get these threads.

Thanks for sharing and welcome aboard!
 

Ringo Watts

Junior Member
This is an interview I did about 3 1/2 years ago when I was at Zildjian, but the crux of it is still relevant today. I'm not being self-indulgent; hopefully it will enlighten people as to how things really work. Bermuda, as usual, does an excellent job at educating people on this subject.

I hope this is helpful... http://www.mikedolbear.com/story.asp?StoryID=2498

Cheers!
John
 

Altar

Senior Member
Only problem is bands w/ a female lead singer do not usually do well (Not counting solo artists or Fleetwood Mac). It is just the lay of the game, should not be. Sorry, I forgot about Skillet, male and female lead singers.
I've found this to be very untrue... Vocals are one of the only places in the music world where a woman can be successful without being treated as a novelty. Female musicians are very common, unfortunately almost all of them are vocalists.
 

coolhand1969

Senior Member
Cannot stand Facebook so looked them up on the WWW.
Listened to 1 song and the guy's playing seemed good: He was playing for the music, showed some tech skills, and a good groove.
There a a lot of bands out there with much less talent, which the record execs get behind and shove down our throat.
Only problem is bands w/ a female lead singer do not usually do well (Not counting solo artists or Fleetwood Mac). It is just the lay of the game, should not be. Sorry, I forgot about Skillet, male and female lead singers.

Either way, if you show back up to read this thread, then I would suggest you listen to Steve Gorman from the Crowes and his new band Trigger Hippy.
 

keep it simple

Platinum Member
i have a few endorsments, and if i get a better deal offered, ill switch. no questions.

whatever. companies don't care about anything but $$ . and if they say otherwise, its a blatant lie.
There's two distinct groups of endorsing artists. You're firmly in one of those groups, unfortunately, the biggest one.

There's two distinct company ethos stances too. Again, the majority are in the group you describe.

Not all artists or companies are the same (thankfully). Look for artists who have associated themselves with one company (per product) over many years to find a potentially more honest endorsement of the product.

From a company standpoint, there are some companies who don't offer much in the way of "deals". Maybe because they can't afford it, & maybe because they believe an artist should have a high degree of equity in their instrument, maybe a bit of both.


Frog, I get 20 emails a week from players who operate exactly as you do. I have a copy & paste reply at the ready for all of them. Hopefully, your post is enough to encourage all to view many endorsements with a high degree scepticism in terms of genuine admiration of the product.
 
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frog

Member
Hey man!

i haven't had time to read through all the replies, i'm sure there's a bunch of opinons.

Mine is: GO FOR IT. your a musician. there is zero money in this business (ESPECIALLY IF YOU WERE DUMB ENOUGH TO PLAY STUPID DEATHMETAL LIKE ME!)

so grab any money saving opportunity you can bro, if your serious about your band, you'll be losing 20k over the next ten years following your dream so every dollar saved counts!


especially if you chew sticks/heads and crack cymbals, being young and full of energy :)

i have a few endorsments, and if i get a better deal offered, ill switch. no questions.

whatever. companies don't care about anything but $$ . and if they say otherwise, its a blatant lie.
 
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Altar

Senior Member
I was looking at the black widow videos, got bored, checked out the johnston video, and you stole my heart. ;)

This thread gives me some hope... I can play almost all of what I've seen you play, and I'm really hoping to get my music out there this summer. You're giving me just that little extra touch of hope. :D
 
M

Mike_In_KC

Guest
Thanks Mike, just got home from Rocklahoma so at least you know I can play a little. LOL!
Dude you are years ahead of me - keep it up. I have a feeling one day I will be bragging about how I knew Harley when he was a kid....

I watched your video for Black Widow - wow.
 
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