Anyone frequent musical but "non drum" forums?

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I don't know of any good ones first hand, but I was thinking of taking a peek at some of the guitarist forums just to see what they have to say about us. Anyone do this?
Can anyone recommend a good guitar forum?
I am genuinely interested in finding out what the general consensus of drummers are according to the stringed players. I sometimes wonder about guitarists reading here on DW and seeing some of the bad things that are sometimes said about them (I'm guilty of that)

We bash them sometimes, I'm sure they bash us. Curious as to how much. Not looking to start anything with them, I respect and admire their abilities and need them, plus I do like them as people, but I will admit that musically, we come from opposite POV's, which can create sparks at times.....Really I'm just looking to be a fly on the wall, and observe them in their native environment. Maybe I can glean some pearls of wisdom from them that will help in my w/ future relations with them.
 

azrae1l

Silver Member
i don't know of a real good forum for guitars, i've been to a few that were mostly kids with no real idea what their spewing and yeah they bash just about everybody including other guitarists.

from all the guitarists i hang around with, drummers are not really bashed as such. we appreciate a good drummer just as much as we appreciate a good bassist. we have our jokes that i'm sure most drummers have heard but it's mostly just a friendly jab in the ribs and i've heard just as many about guitarists that for the most part i see as just a return jab in the ribs.

i will agree, especially over the last month or so, i've seen a lot of guitarist bashing on here and some of it really offends me but i usually just walk a away and don't say anything. i've seen a lot of people really belittle guitarists and the ability it takes to actually play well. but coming from a stand point that i didn't know exactly what a drummer went threw on a daily basis to learn and keep those skills up, over the past year i've really gotten a whole new idea of things and a new perspective on music and how the different instruments interact, which was the point of me learning drums in the first place. i can only assume that the bashing and belittling is coming from the same place of not really understanding the other person.

of course there are a great number on all sides that think their the be all end all and think everybody should bow down to them. i notice it more so with singers then anybody but i see a lot with drummers here, guitarists, bassists, but i bet that has more to do with the person themselves rather then their musical positions and no matter what they played they'd be bashing the others.

the harmless fun jabs aside, for the most part most musicians are respectful of other musicians and their abilities. the ones that don't respect others, well, their probably the kids doing the bashing and getting bashed for their lack of any real ability, maturity and respect.
 
I used to spend some time here: http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/. It's not nearly as active as DrummerWorld, but it seems to have a similar level of maturity (i.e., it's not just people arguing over the 'best' guitarist or what genre a band fits into).

I found a lot of similarities, actually. Here on DW, threads that ask about improving double bass speed are fairly common. The answer is always the same: start slow, try to get the technique right, build up speed gradually, but keep practicing slow. I saw several similar threads about alternate picking or sweep picking over there, with the same advice. Also, questions about the utility of reading music are common and receive essentially the same response in both forums.

There was also a thread once asking about the basics of creating a drum beat, so clearly some guitarists have an interest in what we do. Hopefully most inter-instrument jabs are all in good fun; guitarists may approach music differently than drummers, but it's not like there's much uniformity in either group. And there are plenty of fantastic, humble players (and egotistic, ignorant players) playing any instrument.

Have fun over there.
 

alparrott

Platinum Member
In my other life as a bass player, I check into TalkBass often. It is built on essentially the same forum platform as this forum, so it feels familiar. Perhaps the three biggest differences between this forum and that: (1) sheer volume of posts (easily 1000+ per day on average); (2) different "clubs" that people claim in their signatures, with member numbers assigned by club moderators ("Fender Jazz Bass Club #374, Markbass Club #434", etc); (3) a very large and active sale/trade section of the board. But I do participate in conversations over there that discuss drumming and drummers quite a bit; I feel like I have a "unique" perspective... ha ha!
 

Aeolian

Platinum Member
As a guitarist, I also spend time on http://www.thegearpage.net/board/ There are the occasional threads on drummer jokes. Similar soundman rant threads (I also participate on the ProSoundWeb forum) but overall, it is a very well moderated and typically civil group. Mostly older folks, fair amount of gearhead doctor/lawyer collector types, but also some working musicians. Pro's range from folks like David Torn and Steve Kimock who participate openly to folks like John Mayer who has an account but has never publically come out with his alias.

Lots of great musical advice on different styles and groups out there. A a mostly friendly off topic area with some mostly safe for work threads that keep up with Bo's and GD's avatars.

Harmony Central is mostly a stew of kids and trolls that I have no use for.

There is a guy who sponsors forums about guitarists he likes like Robben Ford, Scott Henderson, Michael Landau and keeps those nice a friendly place to visit, especially if you're in to those guys or that type of music. It was a guy from Italy on the Robben Ford forum that turned me on to The Gear Page.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I think it would be very helpful to know what the stringed players are thinking and what they have to deal with....mentally what they go through onstage. I really think that, whatever instrument you play, that you have to "think" like that player. For example, when auditioning a bass player recently, I wanted a guy who "thinks" like a bass player, not a guitarist playing bass. I need to "think" like a drummer (oversimplifying here). I am curious what it takes to "think" like a guitarist.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
But Larry, there is a ton of diversity on this site ... which approach thinks most like a drummer? As for "a guy who "thinks" like a bass player, not a guitarist playing bass", as you know there are millions of ex-guitarists playing bass. By your definition, I'd guess that a bassy bassist (as opposed to a guitary bassist) would play with fingers rather than a pick and spend more time locking in with the drummer than playing melodic runs.

I'm not a regular but I like looking at forums of other instruments and see what they say about drummers - it can be pretty ugly. Lots of stereotyping. Volume and overplaying seem to be the main complaints, although I've seen complaints about overplaying levelled at guitarists and keyboardists too. This is universal ... when there's a group effort it's annoying when someone keeps diluting the overall thrust by only listening to their own lines ... or going for gold when they only have a bronze technique (which results in crap haha).
 

azrae1l

Silver Member
well outside of the motions, i usually try and pay attention to whats going on behind me. i have to listen to the drummer and bassist, listen for tempo changes, breaks. since i'm also the singer i can't really look over my shoulder and keep eye contact and look for cues so it really takes a lot of concentration beyond just playing the songs, i have to listen for certain keys to come in on or stop on for 2 different things. and at the same time look like it's all effortless and entertain the crowd.

basically my mind is going a 100 miles a second kinda like this...
**this goes here**
**that goes there**
**temp change in 5-4-3-2--**
everybody having a good time?!?!?!?!
**1-2-1-2-3-4 off we go**
**yeah those are real nice, now put your shirt back down cuz i just missed 3 notes**
**crap! how did that verse go again**
**ok that song is done**
**did i just hear the drummer say something? do i need to stall?**
** get the drunk guy away from the mixing board now!!**
YOU GUYS F'IN ROCK!!!!
**ok you guys really suck, i'm killing myself for warm beer up here while you sit outside with a martini! bastard!!!**
**don't ask me to play freebird ever again!!!**
**ok set's done now for a little break**
**christ why do you all wanna talk now??? i just got done yelling in a mic for the last 45 minutes, quite would be nice ya know?**

then it starts all over again......
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Huh. Interesting. Could you describe your version of the ideal drummer? Love to hear it.
Hmm ... time, taste, feel, sound, versatility, imagination, and the ability to blow your head off if required.

The non ideal drummer is the opposite - sloppy, ugly, lots of snare clatter, insensitive, one-dimensional, cliched and can't blow your head off but tries to with a flood of notes that have come straight out of the practice room with little regard for musical context and just make you want to cover your ears. These kinds of players are rarely found at venues (twice) but can be readily tracked down via musician classifieds.

Another thought on bassists ... the best ones I've played with worked hard on getting a great sound.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
But Larry, there is a ton of diversity on this site ... which approach thinks most like a drummer? As for "a guy who "thinks" like a bass player, not a guitarist playing bass", as you know there are millions of ex-guitarists playing bass. By your definition, I'd guess that a bassy bassist (as opposed to a guitary bassist) would play with fingers rather than a pick and spend more time locking in with the drummer than playing melodic runs.

It's more than playing with fingers or doing melodic runs, (which is a hallmark of some really great bass lines, think Motown's Bernadette")...it's approaching from a rhythmic standpoint first rather than a pitch standpoint

I'm not a regular but I like looking at forums of other instruments and see what they say about drummers - it can be pretty ugly. Lots of stereotyping. Volume and overplaying seem to be the main complaints, although I've seen complaints about overplaying levelled at guitarists and keyboardists too. This is universal ... when there's a group effort it's annoying when someone keeps diluting the overall thrust by only listening to their own lines ... or going for gold when they only have a bronze technique (which results in crap haha).
While I admit I am curious to hear what they say amongst themselves, I'm equally curious to get inside their heads a little. Helps me understand things better.
 

Aeolian

Platinum Member
So, Paul McCartney was a converted guitarist playing bass. But he knew enough about music to understand the difference. Myron Dove is a converted guitarist playing bass, but he converted back in high school and devoted himself to the essence of bass.

A guitarist playing bass plays riffs or patterns. A bass player plays time and harmony. It may involve a pattern, but a bass player is coming at it from a holding time and underpinning the harmony or chords in the song standpoint. This is why a good bass player can seemingly join the chords together fluidly while the guitarist playing bass will just shift the position of the pattern they are playing so it is wrapped around the new chord.

Guitarists think more in terms of chord progressions, licks and scale shapes. Rhythm is often very secondary in their mindset. Typically something that the lesser single line skilled guitarist in a band is relegated to while the "lead" guitarist gets all the "solos".
 

con struct

Platinum Member
I'm on a composer's forum, and I'm on a jazz forum. Lots of guitar players on the jazz forum, but not very many drummers, maybe just a few. Also much of the talk is about functional harmony, which doesn't at all interest me anymore.
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
I'm a member of a jazz forum called Organissimo and a saxophone forum called Sax On The Web (because that's my main instrument). I was thinking about becoming a member on a guitar forum as well, because I love discussing music with people, especially other musicians. I'm also a member of a blues forum called Blindman's Blues Forum. If you're looking for any info about blues, there's lots of helpful and knowledgeable people on there that are more than willing to help out.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
So, Paul McCartney was a converted guitarist playing bass. But he knew enough about music to understand the difference. Myron Dove is a converted guitarist playing bass, but he converted back in high school and devoted himself to the essence of bass.

A guitarist playing bass plays riffs or patterns. A bass player plays time and harmony. It may involve a pattern, but a bass player is coming at it from a holding time and underpinning the harmony or chords in the song standpoint. This is why a good bass player can seemingly join the chords together fluidly while the guitarist playing bass will just shift the position of the pattern they are playing so it is wrapped around the new chord.

Guitarists think more in terms of chord progressions, licks and scale shapes. Rhythm is often very secondary in their mindset. Typically something that the lesser single line skilled guitarist in a band is relegated to while the "lead" guitarist gets all the "solos".
Thank you for this. I am self taught, have no formal music education to speak of, and didn't know exactly what the difference was between a guitar players approach and a bass players approach. This really helps out. I knew there was a difference in approaches but couldn't really articulate it too well.

I don't have a problem with a guitarist playing bass, as long as he approaches it like a bass player should, with time and harmony as the main appeal, which, my untrained ear says Paul is definitely doing.
 
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