Advice - Paypal Dispute on Drums

Cadet311

Member
Hi all,

Long story short, I sold my Tama Bubinga kit to a fellow. Upon receipt, he wants his money back because they're "cheap chinese" drums. He offered to resolve the issue with me before going to Paypal Dispute.

He never asked if they were Bubinga or Elite.
He never asked any questions regarding the kit.
I never said they were Elite or claimed they were made in Japan.

That said, do you guys think he has a leg to stand on? According to the paypal policies, I have not violated any of their terms that would require a refund.

thoughts?
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Common sense would tell me that he has no leg to stand on. As long as you advertised exactly what the kit was clearly and if he didn't read the description, well........buyer beware.

However, as "sense" doesn't seem to be all that common these days. I have no idea how this one will roll to be honest. But I'd wager providing you dotted all your I's and crossed all your T's with respect to the product description. It should be in your favour. Hardly your fault he didn't do his homework.
 

B-squared

Silver Member
Offer + acceptance = contract. If you didn't misrepresent what you sold and he didn't ask and you didn't offer a satisfaction guarantee then I don't think he has a case.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
Was this transaction outside of eBay? If so, do you have all your correspondence with the dude in email format, or were there phone conversations (that will turn into your word against his)?

If it was an eBay transaction, I don't think he's got a refund coming since the listing contained all the info for everyone to see and he could've asked the questions - buyer beware! His bad.

It gets more complicated if it was done outside of eBay because what was communicated and what can be proved gets less clear.

PayPal has buyer protection, too, even if it wasn't thru eBay.

I'll be really curious to see how this plays out, so keep us informed. I would contact PayPal to find out what your options are, but if it's anything like eBay, and it probably is since there's not a lot of daylight between the two, then the buyer will seemingly have the advantage.

Good luck!
 

Cadet311

Member
While the original posting was in eBay, we decided to take the transaction outside of eBay. Nonetheless, the original ebay posting mentioned NOTHING about "Elite" or "Japan"
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
As long as you advertised the drums by the same name that the manufacturer calls them and you didn't imply that they were the Japanese made drums then it is the buyers fault for not doing his homework.
You do not have to take the drums back or lower the price.
 

Cadet311

Member
I emailed them asking for some clarification.


EDIT:
Actually, reading through the terms, I may have saved myself.

I required a $500 down payment and then the balance due before shipping. Two separate invoices and payments. You can't raise a dispute on something paid for with multiple payments.
 

mind_drummer

Platinum Member
If you said what model and what year then it's unfortunate that the buyer didn't do his homework because he would have know that Tama kit are now manufactured in China.

I think it's unfortunate for him but you surely can't do anything moveover that he wanted to make the transaction outside of eBay.
 

Soupy

Silver Member
I don't know Tama's product lines that well, but is/was there a lower-end pure bubinga shell? If they were advertised as Tama Bubinga or Starclassic Bubinga, but they're actually birch/bubinga Starclassic Performers, that sounds pretty deceptive to me. But again, it isn't terribly clear what drums these are, and I don't know Tama's catalog as well as others.
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I don't know Tama's product lines that well, but is/was there a lower-end pure bubinga shell? If they were advertised as Tama Bubinga or Starclassic Bubinga, but they're actually birch/bubinga Starclassic Performers, that sounds pretty deceptive to me. But again, it isn't terribly clear what drums these are, and I don't know Tama's catalog as well as others.
Excellent point. I haven't been totally up on Tama's catalog for a few years either, but it's also been my impression that there's the high end Bubinga and the not as high end Birch/Bubinga. If you just said "Bubinga" in your posting, it might be fair for the buyer to assume it wasn't the B/B. Good call.
 

mind_drummer

Platinum Member
Actually all TAMA are now manufactured in China except for the Tama Starclassic Bubinga Elite which is still produce in Japan. I think this is the point of dispute.

If you look at the OP Drummerworld post here http://drummerworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=974667&postcount=207, here what he have to sell

Tama Starclassic Bubinga kit in Volcanic Red Burst
10" mounted
12" mounted
16" floor
22" virgin kick

Though if you look for that kit, it is really a TAMA Starclassic Bubinga http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/product/color_palette.php?area=2&cp_id=3&year=2012&id=2

 

Cadet311

Member
I asked why he considered the Chinese construction cheap. .

"shells are thinner and lightweight. Construction is flimsy"


He also did concede that he should have asked questions before a purchase.
 

mind_drummer

Platinum Member
I asked why he considered the Chinese construction cheap. .

"shells are thinner and lightweight. Construction is flimsy"


He also did concede that he should have asked questions before a purchase.
Thinner shell doesn't necessarily mean cheaper, it mean more resonant... Ludwig already had thin 3 ply shell...

Construction is flimsy; Tama still use the same Japan mold and tools and every shell is quality controlled by a Tama senior enginneer.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
His problem all the way. Don't inconvenience yourself because of his oversights. Tough crap on him. Those drums aren't as bad as he thinks. They aren't bad at all. Same shell right? Same quality wood? Chinese hands can't do what Japanese hands can? I don't quite get the reasoning. Are the Japan Tama's really inferior?
 

Cadet311

Member
Spoke with PayPal and they (so far) agree with me that it would be considered buyers remorse.

It's probably going to go to dispute.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
As Larry and others have pointed out.
There is no evidence that the Chinese drums are substandard.
It is simply just personal preference.
I wouldn't have any problem owning the Chinese kit.
 
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