Advice on traditional grip

drummer-russ

Gold Member
"For me, it's as simple as holding a spoon differently when I'm stirring something with it versus when I'm eating with it. My left and right hands spend more time doing different things than playing the same thing. Depending on the style of music, what's required of each limb varies. "

Well said 8mile.
 

Hollywood Jim

Platinum Member
I find that holding the hand underneath the stick with the left hand confers some nice advantages at softer dynamic levels, especially in jazz comping.
It puts the motion of the hand in the sweet spot for playing intricate patterns at lower volumes.
I find hand on top of the stick works well for power, so when the left hand is slamming backbeats and volume is the main concern, I prefer matched.
Yeah, now here is a good answer for my question. I agree 100%.

I have been playing traditional for some 60 years. And I wish I could play matched grip as good as I play traditional. Right now I play in loud bands.

.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
completely disagree
there are advantages to both grips

comments like this usually come from people who cannot execute the grip and do not understand its advantages
Well that's a nice assumption but I can play both ways.

It can't hurt to learn both, but if OP is having trouble why not try the easier more natural position to learn. 6 months is still new. I just personally don't know why someone would START with trad grip other than aesthetics.

If its a comfort thing I get that, but mostly you will be comfortable with the way you learn.

years back traditional made sense from guys going from marching playing snare to the kit. With cymbal placement, flat snares it just seems that matched is more efficient, consistent and easier to learn.

There are guys doing trad that can drum circles around me.. I'm not saying its a bad technique. but for a new drummer i think he will have an easier time matched.

and saying "if you have to ask, you'll never know" was pretty helpful..
 

WhoIsTony?

Member
and saying "if you have to ask, you'll never know" was pretty helpful..
it is a very true statement

not everyone is comfortable with what the next guy is comfortable with

player A has very easy time getting around the kit with both grips and enjoys nuances that each grip offers for different applications

player B finds matched grip much easier to get around with and more functional to him and finds traditional grip dated and pointless

if drummer B asks A what the advantages he finds with the grip are....B will naturally not agree because he has already determined through many years of trial and error that he prefers matched .... so drummer As answer will naturally not apply to B

so asking a question that he has already decided that he knows the answer to for his own playing in my mind begs for the response .... if you have to ask you will never know
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
This again? Really? Christ this becomes tedious every single, solitary time someone dares mention the word "traditional". Yeah we all know why it was invented....thanks for providing the answer to a question no one asked. But that doesn't mean it doesn't still have a place for those that actively choose to explore it now, does it? Or are people really that narrow minded they can't accept that there are many roads that lead to Rome? As long as you get there, who honestly gives a toss how it's done?

Why can't the naysayers just accept that some people just simply want to? Whether it be as a result of comfort, feel, increased dexterity, better dynamics.....or simply just for the tradition itself? Their reasons are entirely their own and what more reason do they need than that?

I started to develop the grip myself only a couple of years ago, simply because I'd hurt myself and it was a way I could continue practising for a couple of weeks without the aggravation I was feeling when playing matched. I've stayed with it and will continue to do so because I've realised that some things just "feel" better to me when playing that way. No more, no less......but it's enough to have me pursue it and not give a rats arse about the negativity that seems to follow it around. I'm sure I'm not alone with a reason as simplistic as that. So tell me why should that have to be justified in the first place?

Play whatever you like, however you like and for whatever reasons you like. Just don't forget to allow others the same leeway before piling in with absolutes on matters of personal taste, feel and comfort.
 
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rogue_drummer

Gold Member
Interesting conversations going on here!

I learned traditional way back in 1972 and continued to use it on snare and the drum set up until about 2 weeks ago? Mainly because I have run into the exact same problems bonzo is writing about plus my left stick and right stick hit each other sometimes while I'm on the hats and doing a funky snare groove. Drives me nuts. I know it's a technique issue and I'm working on it, but I'm finding matched grip is working out quite nice too, especially on rock songs.

Depending on the genre, I'll use matched for rock, and traditional for blues and jazz as I get a more delicate feeling on the snare using traditional.

Now if I can just keep from moving a tom or two over 1/4" to the left or right everytime I sit at the kit and play I'll be doing good. Seems I'm always somehow jacking with the kit setup.

.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
it is a very true statement

not everyone is comfortable with what the next guy is comfortable with

player A has very easy time getting around the kit with both grips and enjoys nuances that each grip offers for different applications

player B finds matched grip much easier to get around with and more functional to him and finds traditional grip dated and pointless

if drummer B asks A what the advantages he finds with the grip are....B will naturally not agree because he has already determined through many years of trial and error that he prefers matched .... so drummer As answer will naturally not apply to B

so asking a question that he has already decided that he knows the answer to for his own playing in my mind begs for the response .... if you have to ask you will never know
Execpt he asked you specifically what the advantages to Trad grip were. Which the few there are are pretty cut and dry.

Comfort, aesthetics, some guys find they can control dynamics better.

saying your "if you have to ask you'll never know" just sounds like a troll comment and really helps nobody.

He never said he knew the answer.. he just asked you what the advantages were.

I'm not bashing trad grip by the way.. I also agree with what pocket is saying... heck. you could play with your feet for all I care. I don't have the prettiest technique either. But MY technique works for ME. at the end of the day. do what feels the best.

advice to OP either way is to get a practice pad and play it non stop. rudiments, accents, everything. that will get your consistency and speed up. I've been drumming for a long time and i still hit the pad quite a bit. It forces you to take away distractions of PLAYING with working on the technique be it traditional, matched, using fingers or molar.

Another piece of advice would be to try both ways on the pad. that way you can decide for yourself what way works the best for you.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
as if specific aspects of any grip apply to everyone who plays it in exactly the same way

please

lets just generalize everything ... shall we?


All you have posted in this thread is negative comments and disagreeing with nothing to back it up. You're obviously just trolling.

Each grip has very clear advantages and disadvantages that are pretty obvious. So sure.. we can generalize it and make it easy to understand. I'm all for it actually. ESPECIALLY when you say "apply to everyone who plays it in exactly the same way "

How are lessons done? or as you said "learning one of the oldest traditions in drumming". I believe that would be doing something the same as many people before you.

Anyways.. OP best of luck on whatever you try. Just remember rudiments, and the practice pad will help you leaps and bounds. And that speed comes with time and practice. It takes years to play fast, and more importantly TIGHT!
 

geezer

Senior Member
Well that's a nice assumption but I can play both ways.

It can't hurt to learn both, but if OP is having trouble why not try the easier more natural position to learn. 6 months is still new. I just personally don't know why someone would START with trad grip other than aesthetics.

If its a comfort thing I get that, but mostly you will be comfortable with the way you learn.

years back traditional made sense from guys going from marching playing snare to the kit. With cymbal placement, flat snares it just seems that matched is more efficient, consistent and easier to learn.

There are guys doing trad that can drum circles around me.. I'm not saying its a bad technique. but for a new drummer i think he will have an easier time matched.

and saying "if you have to ask, you'll never know" was pretty helpful..
Just a heads up, the OP isn't a new drummer - he's switched grips after 20 yrs drumming due to an injury - and has been playing traditional grip for 6 months.
 

Jankowske

Senior Member
To get this thread back on track, the reason I'm switching to traditional grip after 20 years playing matched is that I suffer from a condition called focal distonia, which affects my ability to play relaxed strokes in my left hand (basically, my hand always shakes to a degree). I've realized recently that the affects of this condition are much less when I'm using traditional grip.
Have you tried wearing a glove?
 

WhoIsTony?

Member
All you have posted in this thread is negative comments and disagreeing with nothing to back it up. You're obviously just trolling.

Each grip has very clear advantages and disadvantages that are pretty obvious. So sure.. we can generalize it and make it easy to understand. I'm all for it actually. ESPECIALLY when you say "apply to everyone who plays it in exactly the same way "

How are lessons done? or as you said "learning one of the oldest traditions in drumming". I believe that would be doing something the same as many people before you.

Anyways.. OP best of luck on whatever you try. Just remember rudiments, and the practice pad will help you leaps and bounds. And that speed comes with time and practice. It takes years to play fast, and more importantly TIGHT!
so you are saying if you were a teacher you would teach every student the same way

..... ok

I sure as hell am glad you are not a teacher .... and so are my students

... and what in the world does learning a tradition have to do with one person finding an advantage in what the next sees as a disadvantage ?

one of the major complaints in your world of generalizations about traditional grip is that there is no power for back beats .... or matched grip provides more power because the hand is on top of the stick....

well many disagree and find plenty of power in traditional grip ... and more comfortably as well

so your generalizations of "clear advantages and disadvantages" that are so obvious are clear to YOU and those who agree with you ... and that is fine .... but putting everyone in the same box is unfair and frankly extremely closed minded

what you see as a disadvantage I may see as a complete advantage .... ya dig

not everyone is in your skin

take a look at the comments of these educators and how ... just like us... they see things in many different ways

http://www.moderndrummer.com/site/2012/09/md-education-team-traditional-grip/?utm_content=buffer8346e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer#_

I mean no disrespect by any of my posts.... and I am sorry if you read them that way ... we simply disagree thats all
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
WhoIsTony i like your approach of teaching everybody is different -some may have lost a finger or just find some modification of their grip more comfortable. Wish you were in our area as no jazz drummers teaching around here I know of and this is a genre of music I just keep falling in love with more and more. I've always had some affection since a youth but rock dominated most of my playing. I love the feel, finesse, and freedom jazz offers. I dig it.
 

WhoIsTony?

Member
WhoIsTony i like your approach of teaching everybody is different -some may have lost a finger or just find some modification of their grip more comfortable. Wish you were in our area as no jazz drummers teaching around here I know of and this is a genre of music I just keep falling in love with more and more. I've always had some affection since a youth but rock dominated most of my playing. I love the feel, finesse, and freedom jazz offers. I dig it.
where are you located ?

I will be starting Skype lessons soon... reluctantly actually ... because I really feel that not being in the room with an instructor can be a major disadvantage for the student

but technology is a wonderful thing and the educational world is heading that way.... so ...
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
so you are saying if you were a teacher you would teach every student the same way

..... ok

I sure as hell am glad you are not a teacher .... and so are my students

... and what in the world does learning a tradition have to do with one person finding an advantage in what the next sees as a disadvantage ?

one of the major complaints in your world of generalizations about traditional grip is that there is no power for back beats .... or matched grip provides more power because the hand is on top of the stick....

well many disagree and find plenty of power in traditional grip ... and more comfortably as well

so your generalizations of "clear advantages and disadvantages" that are so obvious are clear to YOU and those who agree with you ... and that is fine .... but putting everyone in the same box is unfair and frankly extremely closed minded

what you see as a disadvantage I may see as a complete advantage .... ya dig

not everyone is in your skin

take a look at the comments of these educators and how ... just like us... they see things in many different ways

http://www.moderndrummer.com/site/2012/09/md-education-team-traditional-grip/?utm_content=buffer8346e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer#_

I mean no disrespect by any of my posts.... and I am sorry if you read them that way ... we simply disagree thats all
Bucketfuls of awesome in this post.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
Just a heads up, the OP isn't a new drummer - he's switched grips after 20 yrs drumming due to an injury - and has been playing traditional grip for 6 months.

Oops. I read it wrong. thought 6 months total.

Well if it feels better after the injury then do it. After 20 years it would be hard to lose all that progress. and start fresh. I guess You would maintain the experience, groove,and knowledge.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
so you are saying if you were a teacher you would teach every student the same way

..... ok

I sure as hell am glad you are not a teacher .... and so are my students

... and what in the world does learning a tradition have to do with one person finding an advantage in what the next sees as a disadvantage ?

one of the major complaints in your world of generalizations about traditional grip is that there is no power for back beats .... or matched grip provides more power because the hand is on top of the stick....

well many disagree and find plenty of power in traditional grip ... and more comfortably as well

so your generalizations of "clear advantages and disadvantages" that are so obvious are clear to YOU and those who agree with you ... and that is fine .... but putting everyone in the same box is unfair and frankly extremely closed minded

what you see as a disadvantage I may see as a complete advantage .... ya dig

not everyone is in your skin

take a look at the comments of these educators and how ... just like us... they see things in many different ways

http://www.moderndrummer.com/site/2012/09/md-education-team-traditional-grip/?utm_content=buffer8346e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer#_

I mean no disrespect by any of my posts.... and I am sorry if you read them that way ... we simply disagree thats all
I do understand what your saying.

It just sounded like you were trolling.

Not everyone is the same, but the human anatomy and physics work the same for everyone. Unless your different where your fingers bend backwards or have an extra joint.. I know each person has a different size, weight etc, but you get what I'm saying.
Missing a finger or an injury makes sense to teach a different way. There should be no pain in drumming. If something feels 1000x better than you by all means do it.. but the physics don't change just because that way feels better for you.

"I'm glad as hell your not a teacher?" Your kinda ignorant and wrong much of the time.. I taught for a long time. Quite successfully too I may add. This smells a lot like your comment of saying "people who say this, cant play traditional grip" Which i also can.
You say you mean no disrespect but then you say things like this that totally go back to sounding like a ****.

Any ways. this thread has got too far derailed now so I'm going to duck out. Have a great weekend guys. Hopefully you spend more time drumming than arguing lol.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
WhoIsTony I live near Augusta, Georgia-I'm pretty sure there are good jazz teachers in Atlanta but not here, but thats a 5 hour drive back and forth. "I will be starting Skype lessons soon..." Awesome pm when you have it up and running-I'm really interested. I'm tired of sucking big time at jazz.
 

WhoIsTony?

Member
WhoIsTony I live near Augusta, Georgia-I'm pretty sure there are good jazz teachers in Atlanta but not here, but thats a 5 hour drive back and forth. "I will be starting Skype lessons soon..." Awesome pm when you have it up and running-I'm really interested. I'm tired of sucking big time at jazz.
will do

in the mean time just do tons of listening to records that really speak to you.... even if it is just one record over and over

OP apologies for thread hijacking ..... the advice I gave in the 4th post of this thread I stand by
 

Brian

Gold Member
The main "workout" for me, to start, was strengthening the thumb, index, middle fingers of the left hand. Working each one independently on a practice pad. For hours. And days, months years etc. ;) Also, working the basic motion (wrist turn) with no fingers. Once this gets into your muscle memory, you'll find it much easier to execute.

You might have a field-day with Jojo Mayer's "Secret Weapons" DVD; there's loads of information to get you going.

I've only been playing trad seriously grip for a short time, 7-8 years, but got the hang of it and it's definitely worth persuing, jmo.
 
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