A first

jim_gregory

Senior Member
Larry,

You're unbelievable. Acting like the cops were immature and acting inappropriately. Justify this any way you want but you broke the law. Maybe you should lay off the stuff and you might see things more clearly. It's not legal. You broke the law and were caught. Grow up and accept the responsibility.

Have a good day.
I have been arrested and accused of FAR worse (40 years ago) then smoking pot and the cops were polite and buisness like. I have also gotten tickets for coasting through a stop sign and the cops were complete lunatic dicks. There is no excuse for rude behavior in any profession ever. Larry was non threatening and cooperative and I firmly believe that. No excuse. YOU telling him to grow up is absurd. 10 percent of the human race are dicks. Cops are a cross section of the human race so.. It is what it is.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
I'm sorry but I can't support your actions. You blame the police? A 50 year old man out smoking pot. Get a life. The police did their job.
I'm sorry, but I can't support this idiocy. Larry wasn't hurting a damned thing, he obviously has a life, including weekly shows, steady income and tax payment. The multi-officer police presence did nothing to help society that night, in fact simply wasting tax money, and time on arresting someone who was minding his own business. It's entirely likely that someone got hurt in an actual violent crime while the police wasted their time on a 50 year old guy hurting nothing. In fact, I'd rather they were writing speeding tickets than hauling people in for something so stupid. At least a speeding ticket is for something that could arguably cause undue harm on another innocent person and property. Larry strikes me as the kinda guy who would go out of his way to not harm others for no reason. People like that shouldn't be in jail.

I'd say the guy telling others to "get a life" is the one who is most in need of a more realistic world/life viewpoint.
 
Last edited:

tamadrm

Platinum Member
And there's where I think your attempt at positive PR backfires. You know for an iron clad fact that you have a good number (not a few but a good number back home in the US) who would turn everything Larry described into a belittling game that would go far beyond anything remotely professional. Your own profession likes to say again and again "where there's smoke there's fire." But amazingly when smoke exists from one side of the station house to the other you want to point the finger in the other direction or ignore it entirely, while tying in some negative personality insinuation for good measure.

And I'm saying that to all you good cops too who represent the overwhelming majority. Part of the negative rep that you personally might not deserve doesn't always come from people misunderstanding you as much as your zeal to cover for your own right or wrong. That "I can't comment because I wasn't there" chestnut is the oldest gimmick in the book when you absolutely know personally colleagues who would do precisely what Larry described. Besides, you weren't here in this case either but you're here now chiming in with no problem at all..

Finally, you always make this speech like you're doing the gig for free or that the whole thing is being thrown on you. I've never gotten that.

I come from the American South where more than a fair number of especially rural cops behave way over the top and with no common sense...prepared to give you a physical issue just for walking down the street after eleven with a pair of drumsticks in your hand. And yeah there are plenty of the petty kind who will follow you on a club parking lot from one side to the other, when you all you wanted was some fresh air on your break, and even if your name is on the sign his plain wrapper is hiding behind.

Yep, most of you guys are great. But until there's some acknowledgment regarding the existence of your bad apples, this kind of antagonism is going to be there like it or not.
A good number?Well after over 20 years in law enforcement I really have to say that 5 to 10% of cops on the job should be wearing prison blues instead of dress blues.
A large contributing factor to those statistics would be that all police departments is the US recieve some form of State and federal aid.In order to keep recieving that aid,starting in 1969,departments across the country had to start lowering their hiring standards because of something called affirmative action.As a result,admission testing was redesigned,minimum scoring was lowered,and most importantly,psychological evaluation of recruit officers was altered to admit "a broader portion of the population".So candidates with convictions for misdemeanors are hired as well as somewhat unstable personalities,not to mention bad training.Hardly the best candidates for a job where you literally have the power of life and death,but hey,its better that a law suit as far as a department is concerned..Honestly...I have never heard any cop I have ever worked with say "where there's smoke ,there's fire,although I have heard firemen say it.That is just TV cop stuff,just like" freeze punk,or i'll blow your head off'.Laughable..really.
Smoke from one side of the station house to the other?That seems to involve a lot of cops,or maybe a few cops who just get around a lot.
As far as covering our own,well that exists in all professions doesn't it,especially in medicine and education.
As far as not being there,if your not your not,excluding xray vision and crystal balls.So how can I accurately comment on something I did not see.Then fill out a report about it and sign my name to a legal document which I may or may not have to testify to under oath in court.Even if I know a cop is heavy handed,unless I saw it with my own eyes,I'm not going to lie.Old chestnut..gimmick?.I must have been absent that day when chestnut 101 was taught in the police academy.
As far as that other cop chiming in.I guess he felt that he was a defendant in a class action suit.Just for the record I don't agree with some of the things he said,but I have used force on occasion,with no regrets.
You always make the speech?Gig for free?All of it thrown on you.?All cops say that?
Wow..sorry again it sounds like TV cop land to me.In fact, I was surprised when jJoe citizen thanked me for my service on the ferry ride back to Staten Island with my jumpsuit covered concrete powder from the World Trade Center.You're right...you don't get it.

As far as southern law enforcement is concerned..well lets just say that rural deputy sheriffs are coming from a whole different place,and some agencys need to revamp their training standards.But thats what happens when you elect a county sheriff who is actually a plumber.

As far as acknowledgement of bad apples..I guess you never heard of the Knapp Commision,Internal Affairs Division,,The Field Integrity Augmentation Unit ,and last but not least,The Civilian Complaint Review Board.In the NYPD if you so much as get caught taking a free cup of coffee..it stays with you your whole career..kiss promotion goodbye.Cops are fired and locked up just like other people.Yeah,most of us guys are great so we CAN actually do without the lefthanded complement.

Lastly.I guess I can't understand people talking about cops,what we do,how we do it,and how it should have better,when they in truth...know NOTHING about what its like to be a cop.
How about asking to become an auxiluary police officer or deputy sheriff,or maybe doing a ride along,in your department to see what police REALLY do,instead of third hand stories,and TV cop shows.You speak from a place of expertise on police psycology and behavior and procedure,but you are arm chair quarterback at best.Consider it similar to becoming a Fulbright scholar.Education through life experience in a different setting.

Yes we will always have bad cops.Its the nature of the beast.But when some humanoid is breaking into your house at 4 in the morning....and you dial 911....who is coming to stop him


Steve B
 
Last edited:

mattsmith

Platinum Member
A good number?Well after over 20 years in law enforcement I really have to say that 5 to 10% of cops on the job should be wearing prison blues instead of dress blues.
And you don't consider that a good number?

A large contributing factor to those statistics would be that all police departments is the US recieve some form of State and federal aid.In order to keep recieving that aid,starting in 1969,departments across the country had to start lowering their hiring standards because of something called affirmative action.As a result,admission testing was redesigned,minimum scoring was lowered,and most importantly,psychological evaluation of recruit officers was altered to admit "a broader portion of the population".So candidates with convictions for misdemeanors are hired as well as somewhat unstable personalities,not to mention bad training.Hardly the best candidates for a job where you literally have the power of life and death,but hey,its better that a law suit as far as a department is concerned..
Thank you for helping make my point that most cops are great but that a fair number are not the kind who should be wearing your uniform.

Honestly...I have never heard any cop I have ever worked with say "where there's smoke ,there's fire,although I have heard firemen say it.That is just TV cop stuff,just like" freeze punk,or i'll blow your head off'.Laughable..really...
How in earth did you make the reach from a commonly heard piece of cop speak to Clint Eastwood circa 1970s. Respectfully officer that's not a very logical transition.
Smoke from one side of the station house to the other?That seems to involve a lot of cops,or maybe a few cops who just get around a lot...
Why this failed demeaning humor when strong words tied together are always best. I know you don't use this level of rationale when answering questions in court. If I'm not getting it...then educate me. Do you believe this to be an effective tactic?

As far as covering our own,well that exists in all professions doesn't it,especially in medicine and education....
And in you life and death profession that makes it right?

As far as not being there,if your not your not,excluding xray vision and crystal balls.So how can I accurately comment on something I did not see.Then fill out a report about it and sign my name to a legal document which I may or may not have to testify to under oath in court.Even if I know a cop is heavy handed,unless I saw it with my own eyes,I'm not going to lie.Old chestnut..gimmick?.I must have been absent that day when chestnut 101 was taught in the police academy. As far as that other cop chiming in.I guess he felt that he was a defendant in a class action suit.Just for the record I don't agree with some of the things he said,but I have used force on occasion,with no regrets....
There is not a single thing here that is clear. You have jumbled three or four related points, alongside some "make my point" condescending attempts at humor. Are you really debating here? I have seen this identical tactic used by you in the simpler more benign drumming threads. You go for it there too and are surprised when people don't buy it. And you seem to hold grudges when people have the audacity to disagree with you, even when your point is long disproven. Didn't I say that most cops were great? Did you have to keep going on and on and on...until every stone was unturned...real or imagined?

You actually deemed it appropriate to use the World Trade Center when discussing Larry's misdemeanor arrest thread? Holy cow..

All I can say is best of luck to the high majority of good officers out there.
 

THC

Senior Member
I'm just part of a small American company that sells and installs solar panels, and if 5-10% of my employees were out there giving my company a bad name, I'd fire those 5-10% immediately, not make excuses and tell my customers "oh well, there's bound to be a few bad apples. Try walking a mile in their shoes and you'll understand" Unacceptable.

Police officers should be held to much higher standards than my 50 technicians.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
And you don't consider that a good number?


Thank you for helping make my point that most cops are great but that a fair number are not the kind who should be wearing your uniform.



How in earth did you make the reach from a commonly heard piece of cop speak to Clint Eastwood circa 1970s. Respectfully officer that's not a very logical transition.

Why this failed demeaning humor when strong words tied together are always best. I know you don't use this level of rationale when answering questions in court. If I'm not getting it...then educate me. Do you believe this to be an effective tactic?


And in you life and death profession that makes it right?


There is not a single thing here that is clear. You have jumbled three or four related points, alongside some "make my point" condescending attempts at humor. Are you really debating here? I have seen this identical tactic used by you in the simpler more benign drumming threads. You go for it there too and are surprised when people don't buy it. And you seem to hold grudges when people have the audacity to disagree with you, even when your point is long disproven. Didn't I say that most cops were great? Did you have to keep going on and on and on...until every stone was unturned...real or imagined?

You actually deemed it appropriate to use the World Trade Center when discussing Larry's misdemeanor arrest thread? Holy cow..

All I can say is best of luck to the high majority of good officers out there.
No number is a good number.But to think that it will ever be 100% is just ridiculous

Commonly heard piece of cop speak? You have to be kidding me.Again,I have never heard it in over 20 years of law enforcement.Where there's smoke,there's fire.Again TV cop stuff.You really are off base here.Logical it most certainly is.I was just comparing some Hollywood nonsence with what civilians think cops really say,which as usual,has NOTHING to do with reality. Amusing realy

I feel my use of demeaning humor was appropriate,considering the statment you made.Smoke from one end of the station house to the other?Sounds like an blanket condemnation to me.Again..people of all professions cover for one another.I guess you can't understand that because you really haven't had a job where people count on each other to survive.And yes ..thats the way it really is.To understand this,we have to have a common frame of reference,which we clearly don't.As far as tactics,we do whatever we have to do,to put a rapist,or a child molester in jail.I know you can't wrap your head around that,but thats how its done.Effective?No doubt.

You are obviously naive in the ways of the world if you think this type of butt covering dosen't happen in all professions.Really?I'm not saying its right,I'm saying it happens all the time,in every profession you can think of,not just law enforcment.You really need to wake up to that.

As far as being clear.you need to look at your own posts to define condesending.I hold no grudges against anyone.I haven't seen my points long disproven on anything.If I was incorrect on anything I posted,I admitted my mistake and moved on,so I don't see your point here except you seem to want to possibly bring this to a personal level.If I offend you to that degree ,I offer no apology

As far as the Trade center reference,I was addresing your reference to the speech about doing the gig for free and the whole thing is on me.

I never asked for a thank you for the job I did.When I actually got one,I was surprised.How you equated that experience to Larry is just grabbing at straws.

Tactics?I go for it.Wow.If your refering to my exception of the word retarded,well I would think an enlightened individual would understand my point.My posting about vintage drums,cymbal and other equipment is accurate,or would you like to challenge what I posted there also_Other than that ,please give me an example of you allegation.I don't recall getting into a prolonged disagreement with anyone here. Read some of the responses to your threads also,and you may find disagreement in you opinions also .Your psudo intellecual scolding is becoming boring and insulting,as some of your last responses were,and totally uncalled for.If I offended you with my comments about speed drumming,well you yourself said it was more a sport than music,or did I misunderstand you?
All things being said,I would still prefer to be friends than antagonists.Ball's in your court.


Steve B
 
Last edited:

mattsmith

Platinum Member
No number is a good number.But to think that it will ever be 100% is just ridiculous

Commonly heard piece of cop speak? You have to be kidding me.Again,I have never heard it in over 20 years of law enforcement.Where there's smoke,there's fire.Again TV cop stuff.You really are off base here.Logical it most certainly is.I was just comparing some Hollywood nonsence with what civilians think cops really say,which as usual,has NOTHING to do with reality. Amusing realy

I feel my use of demeaning humor was appropriate,considering the statment you made.Smoke from one end of the station house to the other?Sounds like an blanket condemnation to me.Again..people of all professions cover for one another.I guess you can't understand that because you really haven't had a job where people count on each other to survive.And yes ..thats the way it really is.To understand this,we have to have a common frame of reference,which we clearly don't.As far as tactics,we do whatever we have to do,to put a rapist,or a child molester in jail.I know you can't wrap your head around that,but thats how its done.Effective?No doubt.

You are obviously naive in the ways of the world if you think this type of butt covering dosen't happen in all professions.Really?I'm not saying its right,I'm saying it happens all the time,in every profession you can think of,not just law enforcment.You really need to wake up to that.

As far as being clear.you need to look at your own posts to define condesending.I hold no grudges against anyone.I haven't seen my points long disproven on anything.If I was incorrect on anything I posted,I admitted my mistake and moved on,so I don't see your point here except you seem to want to possibly bring this to a personal level.If I offend you to that degree ,I offer no apology

As far as the Trade center reference,I was addresing your reference to the speech about doing the gig for free and the whole thing is on me.

I never asked for a thank you for the job I did.When I actually got one,I was surprised.How you equated that experience to Larry is just grabbing at straws.

Tactics?I go for it.Wow.If your refering to my exception of the word retarded,well I would think an enlightened individual would understand my point.My posting about vintage drums,cymbal and other equipment is accurate,or would you like to challenge what I posted there also_Other than that ,please give me an example of you allegation.I don't recall getting into a prolonged disagreement with anyone here. Read some of the responses to your threads also,and you may find disagreement in you opinions also .Your psudo intellecual scolding is becoming boring and insulting,as some of your last responses were,and totally uncalled for.If I offended you with my comments about speed drumming,well you yourself said it was more a sport than music,or did I misunderstand you?
All things being said,I would still prefer to be friends than antagonists.Ball's in your court.


Steve B
Steve, I think you're still ticked off about my having disagreed with you in that youtube thread and that you have carried that anger here. Moreover, I think you believe anything contrary to your view of the universe to be offensive, alongside your incorrect belief that everyone else assumes an identical behavior. But you know that's just me being a pseudo intellectual and all. You might also notice that I never start these things...and if they bore you why respond to them?

Naw no fight officer...carry on...and this being a music forum I look forward to hearing you play...where almost like magic, the lion's share of this kind of rhetoric immediately ends.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Steve, I think you're still ticked off about my having disagreed with you in that youtube thread and that you have carried that anger here. Moreover, I think you believe anything contrary to your view of the universe to be offensive, alongside your incorrect belief that everyone else assumes an identical behavior. But you know that's just me being a pseudo intellectual and all. You might also notice that I never start these things...and if they bore you why respond to them?

Naw no fight officer...carry on...and this being a music forum I look forward to hearing you play...where almost like magic, the lion's share of this kind of rhetoric immediately ends.
You think I'm angry with you?Wow.Sorry my young friend,but it takes a lot more than your disagreement with me to make me angry.As for my view of the universe,well that changes every day,and I believe ,everybody is entitled to their opinion.But your post on this subject seems to come across as ...well ...a parent scolding a child.Kind of know it all,even though,you can't possibly have first hand knowledge on the subject.You speak to the topic as though your words are fact...not opinion.Sorry..not even an informed opinion.You're not old enough nor experienced enough to possess the wisdom of the ages,and neither am I

.
Identical behavior?God I hope not.THAT would be boring.

As far as playing,that really does sound like a challenge.I'm glad skill level isn't a requirement to join a drum forum...or did I miss that rule?So now its pistols at ten paces?,Marque D' Queensbury rules?That would be like bringing a knife to a gunfight.If you will indulge one cheesy movie cop pearl of wisdom.."a mans got to know his limitations".

Matt ,both you and I know you are way faster than me,and that you are no doubt a naturally talented player.You have dedicated a substantial portion of you life to drumming,which is something I only do as a hobby.But skill and knowledge in this case are mutually exclusive.

I truly think maybe we both misunderstand one another.Lets leave it at that.I have no ill will,nor anger toward you.Like I have said before,there is no reason we can't be friends,but you have slapped my hand away twice already.Maybe you are the one who is angry?

Steve B
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Steve, I didn't see Matt's speaking of playing to be a challenge. I think his point is that music is our common ground and it's, ultimately, a more peaceful pastime than talk.

I also find, with Matt's playing, it's not his speed as much as the touch and expressiveness.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
I stand corrected.I do on occasion get a little....block headed.I apologize if I offended anyone and , for my short sighted remarks.

Steve B
 

aydee

Platinum Member
Larry, I'm glad its behind you, and all thats all I'd like to say on the subject.

Your sense of outrage is partly justified and like most laws, this one isn't perfect either. And as someone earlier said; its all about 10% of the human race. On both sides of the law. I'm sorry you & your wife had to go through this, bud.

...
 
Last edited:

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Thank you so much for all the support that has been shown. It really means a lot, no kidding. You guys are a wonderful support system. I express stuff here that I don't express anywhere else because this is the only place where I know that many here can totally relate. I share most everything with my wife, but TBH, she really doesn't truly understand things music like the people here do, she's not a drummer.

DW totally fills my intellectual need to discuss all things drumming. But beyond that, the social aspect of this international forum, with people from all different walks of life, is teaching me so much about tolerance and differing opinions. This is a very educational place. The collection of minds here and the enthusiasm for drumming is the most positive thing I've ever come across. The young members here are lucky that they have this resource from the get go.

Imagine no DW.............

OK stop, that's enough. Not too pretty, right?

I can state with certainty that just being here, reading about, writing about, and thinking about drumming has definitely improved my playing. As a result of this forum, I think about drums, drumming and drummers much more than I did pre DW. I have been forced to crystallize my thoughts on drumming matters to present them here in a clear way, and this has helped me immensely be a more thoughtful drummer. Before DW I had no place to share anything drumming, so I never really searched my soul for the perfect way to express myself to others about the drums. Being here on DW is a form of practice in a strange way. I am focused on drumming, and just thinking about it and defining attitudes is a big part of the journey.

And just for the record, I'm not outraged. I'm not anti-police at all. I'm not mad at anyone, not even myself. I do think it's a harmful, destructive, good for nothing law and that's where I will fight for change.
Things happen for a reason. I'm just rolling with a punch. If this is the worst thing that happens to me then I have much to be thankful for.

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart.
 

brownie1969

Senior Member
I could never understand WHY someone would want to become a police officer.....having to deal with very gray situations, in a strictly, "black-and-white" (no pun) manner on a daily basis.....uggg, no thanks. A cops hands are often handcuffed....Larry being released after 2 hours speaks volumes....he conducted himself in a decent manner, and someone decided to cut him some slack (after the initial arrest, because he behaved appropriately)....not sure what other outcome one SHOULD expect.

PS....You can thank the lawyers for ensuring that you get arrested everytime you step out of line....had Larry been cited and released, then plowed his car into something...every ambulance-chaser in the area would be looking to hang those officers from a tree....so you get-what-you get......"what do you call a 10000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea"....ohhh, no here we go again......is there a doctor in the house???
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
Larry, I agree with you totally, re: stupid law (and this from someone who doesn't partake) and inappropriate officer behavior, and also agree some with the technicality of having broken said law. Your actions and attitude in the face of your initial mistreatment, doubled with your opinions of the particular law in the first place, are very commendable. I'm also glad you have this community to vent to, and that it's enriching your drumming life- since, y'know, that's its intended purpose. :)

Be more careful next time!
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
I stand corrected.I do on occasion get a little....block headed.I apologize if I offended anyone and , for my short sighted remarks.
Don't beat yourself up too bad, Steve :) It's not easy to get everything right when things get tetchy. We've all been there (and probably will go there again). Not easy being a cop because it's so in the public eye and everyone's going to have an opinion.

Much easier for me doing statistical analysis because everyone's too bored by the idea of it to hold much of an opinion past "lies, damned lies and statistics" (which is an outrageous slur on the ethics of the statistical community :)

Bloody stupid law, though IMO, though I'm biased because I'm a toker from way back. I just think prohibition is an idea that had its day. It was probably useful for a while but now a different approach would benefit everyone (apart from the Mr Bigs) more. Mostly people just need to be taught the difference between use and abuse. One or two aspirins will fix most headaches. 100 aspirins will wreck your stomach lining.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
....10 percent of the human race are dicks. Cops are a cross section of the human race so.. It is what it is.

Only problem with this theory is that the police are trained not to be(pricks), but choose, and at times enjoy it.
 

mattsmith

Platinum Member
....10 percent of the human race are dicks. Cops are a cross section of the human race so.. It is what it is.

Only problem with this theory is that the police are trained not to be(pricks), but choose, and at times enjoy it.
Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner..
 

Deathmetalconga

Platinum Member
I'm just part of a small American company that sells and installs solar panels, and if 5-10% of my employees were out there giving my company a bad name, I'd fire those 5-10% immediately, not make excuses and tell my customers "oh well, there's bound to be a few bad apples. Try walking a mile in their shoes and you'll understand" Unacceptable.

Police officers should be held to much higher standards than my 50 technicians.
If one of your technicians were getting high on the job in public, I would sure hope you'd fire them immediately. Before the police arrested them.
 
Top