32nd note no-bounce speed

SlyMaelstrom

Junior Member
Hi, I've been trying to build more sound consistency in my snare work and I've starting more practicing on my leg to work on my double stroke roll without any bounce to make sure I'm getting clean even strokes. However, I've been unsatisfied with my speed thus far. As of now, I'm getting perfectly consistent sound at 70BPM doing 32nd notes and I really start to fall apart about 80BPM. That's about the point I would traditionally start shifting into more of a double bounce technique and I feel like it's a bit too low. I'd like to get that tempo up to 100BPM with a clear sound before I start transitioning to bounces.

I know these topic have been brought up a million times in every way possible, but I didn't see a good one recently that really talked about this particular roll and a lot of them seem to be inconsistent in the note sub-divisions when they discuss it. I'd love to hear from some high quality players where they feel your double stroke should be in 32nd note intervals before you start to rely on bounces. What tempo do you start to switch?

EDIT: By the way, I realize I should have posted this in the drum technique forum and didn't realize I accidentally created a thread in the general discussion until after the fact. Hopefully a mod can move it.
 
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bud7h4

Silver Member
The thing about speed is that my getting faster has more to do with perfecting the technique than building muscle endurance. Because of this, the faster I get, the less work my muscles are doing.

It's possible that by practicing without rebound, yes you are increasing the speed you can attain using your muscles, but this progress may end up being something you eventually discard once you reach a certain point with rebound.

Without rebound, your muscles are supplying the speed.
With rebound, your muscles are regulating the speed.

Sort of like a basketball player learning to dribble a deflated basketball as fast as possible, yet a properly filled ball will require a somewhat different technique to facilitate the much higher dribbling speeds it is capable of.
 

SlyMaelstrom

Junior Member
Ok, so I take it you're saying that 70-80 BPM 32nd notes are an okay point to transition to double bounce strokes. I'm fine with the double bounce but I'm finding the transition from double stroke using my ring and pinky fingers to double bounce strokes using my fulcrum pressure is a bit dirty at that tempo and I thought the transition might be a bit more fluid at around 100 BPM. If you watch this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ4FPPnpddA

The transition seems to occur for him at 100 BPM (at least that what it looks like to me visually, his sound is pretty smooth and I can't really distinguish the transition audibly. This is what I'm going for... now I know cleaning up the transition takes more than finding a sweet spot with the tempo but I figure if I'm intending to take it up to that tempo, anyway, I might as well make sure I can get a clean double stroke up to that tempo first... maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

That said, thanks for the advice... I would say my cleanliness at 70 BPM (at lack of at 80 BPM) on a drum pad is pretty consistent with what's on my leg. Believe me I know there's a difference but for me what I do on my leg I tend to transition to a pad or a drum pretty well. I also got the idea of practicing on a non-rebounding surface from John Wooton in his Vic Firth video lessons, so it feels like legit advice. It's nice to hear some contrary opinions, though.

Thanks again. Hopefully others will also provide their insight.
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
The thing about speed is that my getting faster has more to do with perfecting the technique than building muscle endurance. Because of this, the faster I get, the less work my muscles are doing.

It's possible that by practicing without rebound, yes you are increasing the speed you can attain using your muscles, but this progress may end up being something you eventually discard once you reach a certain point with rebound.

Without rebound, your muscles are supplying the speed.
With rebound, your muscles are regulating the speed.

Sort of like a basketball player learning to dribble a deflated basketball as fast as possible, yet a properly filled ball will require a somewhat different technique to facilitate the much higher dribbling speeds it is capable of.
An excellent post!

70-80 is a natural tempo for beginning to switch over to rebound.Don't sweat it and get off the leg and onto the pad.
 
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