Help with French grip technique

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pt3407

Senior Member
I’ve posted about wrist pain before in my ride cymbal hand. Initially I thought it was because I was playing with too much tension but I discovered that it’s because I’ve been playing with my wrist moving in a vertical motion if you were to look at the hand in French grip, which is not the way the wrist is meant to move. I’ve heard about usin wrist rotation in French grip to get the strokes in, not wrist extension/flexion. How do you execute French grip with wrist rotation?

https://youtu.be/v_K5sDtPz64
 
Are your elbows right next to your body? If so try moving your elbow out about 6 inches. This should rotate your hand enough to allow your wrist to move up and down instead of side to side.

Sorry I don't know the answer to the French grip thing, I don't really use it.
 
MrInsanePolack said:
Are your elbows right next to your body? If so try moving your elbow out about 6 inches. This should rotate your hand enough to allow your wrist to move up and down instead of side to side.

Sorry I don't know the answer to the French grip thing, I don't really use it.
Click to expand...

I’ve tried that method of moving the elbow so my palms are more in an up down motion but it feels awkward and playing uptempo with that doesn’t seem to be possible.
 
Stop using French grip. And relocate your ride cymbal.


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pt3407 said:
I’ve posted about wrist pain before in my ride cymbal hand. Initially I thought it was because I was playing with too much tension but I discovered that it’s because I’ve been playing with my wrist moving in a vertical motion if you were to look at the hand in French grip, which is not the way the wrist is meant to move. I’ve heard about usin wrist rotation in French grip to get the strokes in, not wrist extension/flexion. How do you execute French grip with wrist rotation?

https://youtu.be/v_K5sDtPz64
Click to expand...

Seems to me you're using your wrist to play every stroke. With french grip and the jazz rhythm, you could easily just play one wrist stroke on beat 2 and 4 and let the fingers play the rest (which is kinda the point of french grip imo). And open up your hand/fingers more on the initial beat.
 
People don't use that grip because it's hard to figure out, and just because everyone calls it "French" grip now doesn't mean there's only one way to do it. Find a natural motion that works for you. If what you're doing hurts, try something else. Check out some videos of good/famous jazz drummers (not just anyone with a video advertising "correct" ride cymbal technique) and copy what they do-- whoever looks good to you.
 
1. Stop slugging the cymbal loudly with a thick, heavy stick, with so much tension in your hand and wrist. Of course this causes pain.

2. There are different kinds of pain. There is the sharp, shooting, bad technique pain, and then there is the "muscles ran out of oxygen" pain. A slight ache is normal, as your tendons and cartilage adjust to the new work load. If it's muscles running out of oxygen, carry on and build some endurance; however, if it's sharp, shooting pain, stop, stretch, and take a break.

3a. Use your fingers more, and your wrist less. Open up and relax your hand, so that you can learn to "snap" the second note of the double stroke with fingers 3, 4, and 5.

3b. Extend your index finger slightly. The stick should lay in the first crease of your index finger, not between the first and second creases. This will help your hand to open up a bit as well.

4. Stretch your wrists and fingers many times per day, and give yourself forearm and hand massages. Treat your hands and wrists like a runner would treat their legs.
 
French grip and wrist movement seem incompatible. I play big band jazz, and use the ride cymbal extensively. Slow patterns are more of a throw feeling on the quarter note, and a finger pick up on the dotted eighth. Fast patterns are a throw and rebound feeling. Wrist action is minimal.
I use my wrist when I sizzle the hats, but that's an American style grip.
Get the "throw" feeling going. It's more of a forearm movement, and pick up the dotted eighth with the fingers. I know you said tension isn't a problem, but check carefully. Try playing the ride cymbal as softly as possible when you practice, that will help.
 
If you’re feeling pain playing this way, try a different motion. Have you tried something more towards German grip? It won’t be as natural on the ride cymbal, but if that helps, it is better than playing with pain.

Without seeing you play more or knowing your day to day routines, I can only guess that it’s coming from your grip (from the video) - Also you might be getting repetitive strain from somewhere else, and the drumming is just aggravating it.

For the record, French German and American grips are all very useful ways to play - most drummers unconsciously use all three without even knowing it. The drum kit is an instrument made up of various surfaces and angles - to use only one grip is very limiting and pretty much impossible. IME it makes sense to know all of them well. Playing French with wrist motion is a great way to play - if your grip and technique is together.
 
It's usually not about the grip. Anything can work and people have preferrences.

For me, grip is about placement.

Watching your video you seem very stiff and rigid. In person we'd probably figure this out in no time, really hard to be constructive through this medium and not seeing uch more general playing, but it really seems we're about basic "ball bouncing" stuff here.
 
That’s a repetitive use injury. You should stop using your right hand for a while. I have been in that situation before. What helped me was a month of not using my right hand for anything. Then a week of 10 minutes every other day followed by a week of 20 minutes every other day slowly building back towards my normal routine. Now I don’t take any chances. If I feel anything weird in either of my hands/wrists I don’t play.
 
I have the same problem, so I just switched to American grip. French grip feels right, but my muscles don't like it. They're the boss.

If I'm jamming, I'll often use French grip when I start a ride, because that's what comes most easily, but then I'll roll my hand over into American grip if I'm going to be working the ride cymbal for a while. It's a lot easier on the body.

And... what do you do for a living? I push a mouse around my desk all day, so my wrist is pretty much toast before I start playing drums. French grip just aggravates a problem that starts at work. It never bothered me before I got a desk job.
 
Maybe you like to check out MY VIDEO:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0XzNlIdu8

Almost all drummers play French Grip when they ride, personally I never experienced any pain ever (47 years playing), my video is MEDIUM UP, so it´s using the regular technique (still phrasing in triplets, not straight eighths), not the one Riley shows in the other video, that technique is exclusively for uptempo, but you are playing in your video a medium tempo.

Best!
 
WhoIsTony? said:
this post interested me and I wanted to respond this way if I may

https://youtu.be/ewKfDTIq9vw
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to make that video.

When you show how to move from the snare to the ride, that's what I do (although you explain it better), so I start with French grip because that's the most natural way to land the stick on the cymbal. Then I roll my hand over to American grip because I hate holding the stick between my thumb and index finger. That's only because my thumb is already sore from work.

I think I'm using the term "American grip" incorrectly.

The way I hold my hand looks like American grip, but what I'm doing is described in The Moeller Book. It's a great anti-fatigue technique. It took me quite a while to become comfortable with it, but now it's my preferred grip.

Wikipedia has a good description of it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moeller_method#Grips
 
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