THE HALF TIME BERNARD PURDIE SHUFFLE

[NUTHA JASON]

This is the official thread for all things shuffled a la purdie. go here for a free video lesson:
http://jasonhorsler.tripod.com/id64.html (http://jasonhorsler.tripod.com/id64.html)

i have just read the whole thread of ''favourite groove to play'' and the one groove that seems to be mentioned over and over by many of you is the half time shuffle.
i would like to gather a list of all the songs that incorporate this beat or its family.

the ones we seem to know so far are:

roseanna - toto
fool in the rain - zeppellin

where else has it been used? raid your CDs and see if you can spot it.

j

[jg_drummer]

mike and toms excellent adventure - dream theater

On DVD set with Mike Portnoy

-----

In the movie payback with mel gibson, they feature a chase scene with this groove

-----

thats all i can remember for now

[jg_drummer]

ps: afterthought you might want to mention that it is also referred to the 12/8 shuffle

[Stu_Strib]

When the World Ends, by Dave Matthews Band, played by Carter Beauford, of the album Everyday.

stu

[jg_drummer]

found this video explanation here

video (http://www.icanplaydrums.com/Rosanna_verse_july05.wmv)

[Bernhard]

Why not let's explain Jeff Porcaro himself:

Rosanna (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jeffporcaro.html)

Or Bernard Purdie:

Purdie Shuffle (http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Bernard_Purdie2.html)

Or John Bonham, just the groove:

John Bonham (http://www.drummerworld.com/Sound/johnbonhamdrumsalone.mp3)

Bernhard

[DogBreath]

Great videos, guys. All now saved to my hard drive.

[Joe Morris]

check out some steely dan cd's that bernard played on. That groove lives on some of the tunes on "Asia" I think, but im not positive.


Joe Morris

[NUTHA JASON]

O H M Y ... i just heard the bonham link above for the first time in my life bonzo by himself. what a sound!!! i would give my top teeth to sound like that. what a great drumbeat, and sound. no click track just a perfect single take. he is the greatest.

j

[jg_drummer]

agreed. i kinda have to put this and the gadd paradiddle groove at the top of the list of all time groove. Then there is the Stubblefield/Starks funkydrummer groove...cant forget about good 'ol james brown

[DogBreath]

I hope you guys are happy. I've had that half time shuffle stuck in my head since last night.

[jg_drummer]

time to make it worse.

its tabbed out here

http://www.networthmedia.net/photos/halftimeshuffle1.jpg

http://www.networthmedia.net/photos/halftimeshuffle2.jpg

http://www.networthmedia.net/photos/purdie.jpg

[jg_drummer]

dog can you move this into tecnique and make it a sticky? and the gadd groove too? i see a lot of people searching these two.

thoughts?

[DogBreath]

I agree, it has morphed into a technique discussion, and a good one. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Paul Quin]

The tune on Aja is "Home at Last" and the groove also appears again (courtesy of Bernard "Pretty Boy" Purdie) on "Babylon Sister" on the Gaucho CD.

[drummer_wid_pulse]

time to make it worse.

its tabbed out here

http://www.networthmedia.net/photos/halftimeshuffle1.jpg

http://www.networthmedia.net/photos/halftimeshuffle2.jpg

http://www.networthmedia.net/photos/purdie.jpg

how do you guys play that groove...i would really like to apply that in my drumming in church....

[jg_drummer]

im pretty sure there is a song from jars of clay with this groove in it...ill try to find it.

[Rudy McRudster]

Isn't that used in "Babylon Sisters"? I think it's that or a variation of it.

[DogBreath]

Isn't that used in "Babylon Sisters"? I think it's that or a variation of it.

*sifts through memory cells, listens to Babylon Sisters in my mind*

Yup, I do believe you are correct.

[Drumkill]

There are so many songs that incorporate the half time shuffle! I have been working on perfecting this shuffle for about 1 1/2 years and I find something new with it everyday! Those ghost notes on snare are killers (AKA Babylon Sisters and Rossana).

I thought that I would add some Canadian content for the half time shuffle. There is a song by a guitarist named Kim Mitchell called " All We Are" which is another great example of a half time shuffle. This shuffle is aply performed by a Toronto based drummer named Paul DeLong. Very heavy player!!!!

[kaelm7a]

Hey thanks for the tab on the Purdie shuffle. I've wanting to learn this, but just can't seem to get it.... I love hearing this groove....


Another groove I love hearing and can slop through is Joe Morello's groove on "Take Five"...heck, I love his playing on "Blue Rondo a la Turk" as well....

[kaelm7a]

Oi, in trying to play the Purdie Shuffle last night after seeing it written out, I think my problem is I'm not hearing/feeling my left hand (second note of the triplet) as the middle. I'm hearing it/feeling it as the first note.


Besides playing the groove slowly over and over, anybody have any suggestions on how to get the feel of this one?

[NUTHA JASON]

start with hands only and don't ghost the note. really concentrate on the triplet feel. then put a bass drum beat at every 'one'. really slow and then when you can play at speed without losing the triplet shuffle then start ghosting and building in the half time snare and bass patterns.


j

[Rudy McRudster]

Porcaro breaks it up really nicely, explaing the triplets in it. I actually like what Rick Latham does with the groove, look at the Drum Clinic section for the video.

[mandion]

Thanks so much you guys. I've learned a lot by reading this discussion.

I think I've got the Purdie shuffle down now, but I'm not sure if I'm picking up the Fool in the Rain and Rosanna shuffles right or not. Would someone mind helping me out a little? In the Rosanna shuffle, are the bass hits on 1, 2&, and 4 of the first measure and then then 1&, 3, and 4& of the second measure?

And in fool in the rain, is it 1, 2&, 4, 4&, then 2&, 4&?

That's what I think I'm hearing, but the shuffle feel makes it harder to count. I'd try to play along with the cd, but I'm still way slower than Porcaro.

Thanks.

[kaelm7a]

Muchas gracias. I'll try this...it may take me a bit (we're in the middle of moving right now, so you can guess how much practice time I'm getting).


start with hands only and don't ghost the note. really concentrate on the triplet feel. then put a bass drum beat at every 'one'. really slow and then when you can play at speed without losing the triplet shuffle then start ghosting and building in the half time snare and bass patterns.


j

[Freddie Freeloader]

O H M Y ... i just heard the bonham link above for the first time in my life bonzo by himself. what a sound!!! i would give my top teeth to sound like that. what a great drumbeat, and sound. no click track just a perfect single take. he is the greatest.

j

like i said on the bonzo thread in the drummers forum.... i have a whole bunch of bonham drum outtakes. they surfaced on the harmony central forum ages back and as you can imagine, there was a real rush to download them. so if you want, i can mail a few (or all, time permitting) to you....

[Jookbox]

my way of learning difficult beats is to put them into a drum machine. it helps me hear the beat properly and at all tempos.. (that's what i'm starting to do with gary chester's book, New Breed)

anyway, i programmed the shuffle into the redrum machine in Reason 3.0. sounds pretty cool with the 'dub kit'. mp3 attached. if anyone uses reason and want the .rns file let me know.

edit - edited the file to accent the hihat properly. also added a slower version. shows how a drum machine helps.

[mandion]

Thanks Jookbox, that really helps. For some reason, its a lot easier to pick out exactly where each beat falls. I'll have to try doing that myself.

[NUTHA JASON]

here's fool in the rain. though it is hard to express the shuffle triplets with this type of charting. i'm looking mainly at the bassdrum pattern here.

the challenge is for one of you guys to copy this and add the hihat foot accent. where does it go? let's see who gets it in the right places first.

CY|X-----------------------|------------------------|
HH|------X-----X---X-X---X-|X---X-X-X---X---X-X-X---|
SN|------------X-----------|------------X-----------| ETC ETC …
BD|X---X-----X-----------X-|X---X-----X-----------X-|


j

ps: listen to the drummerworld link in the thread above to hear that beautiful left foot work of bonzo's.

[G-money]

my way of learning difficult beats is to put them into a drum machine. it helps me hear the beat properly and at all tempos.. (that's what i'm starting to do with gary chester's book, New Breed)

anyway, i programmed the shuffle into the redrum machine in Reason 3.0. sounds pretty cool with the 'dub kit'. mp3 attached. if anyone uses reason and want the .rns file let me know.

edit - edited the file to accent the hihat properly. also added a slower version. shows how a drum machine helps.

Yes, i was wondering if having a drum machine or dm software would help out learning complex rythms. Do you use software or an actual drum machine?

[Jookbox]

i use Reason 3.0 (software)

[NUTHA JASON]

come on folks who knows where the hat accent goes in fool in the rain? CY|X-----------------------|------------------------|
HH|------X-----X---X-X---X-|X---X-X-X---X---X-X-X---|
SN|------------X-----------|------------X-----------| ETC ETC …
BD|X---X-----X-----------X-|X---X-----X-----------X-|

[mandion]

It's on the swing beat right before the 2, right? Like the third note of the triplet of the first beat of the measure.

[Go-Go-Groove]

Hey, man.
I'm purdy possitive that its just on a1 a2 a3 a4... because it's a shuffle. Check this out- http://drummerworld.com/Videos/jeffporcaro.html

PLAY IT SLOW! it's so much fun to play, but you gotta make it groove before you go crazy with it. That's the way shuffles are meant to be played. If it doesnt groove you might as well not play it.

[Henry II]

Isn't that used in "Babylon Sisters"? I think it's that or a variation of it.

Bernard Purdy plays his shuffle on Steely Dan's "Babylon Sisters" and "Home at Last."

[Sound Chaser]

Bernard Purdy plays his shuffle on Steely Dan's "Babylon Sisters" and "Home at Last."

YES!!! Those are the BEST songs to practice your half-time shuffle to.

There was a great ariticle in Modern Drummer by Ron Spagnardi a while back on the half time shuffle. That's actually where I learned it from, then listening to those two songs helped a lot too.

[elmo]

hey, ive been trying to learn some new shuffles lately.

can someone tab out some cool shuffles for me to learn?
i can play rosanna, Purdiesque, purdie, and thats about it.

the one i wanted tabbed out especially was fool in the rain.
thanks.

[liquidrhythm]

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3166&postcount=30

[elmo]

does anyone else have any other sweet shuffles?

[Henry II]

hey, ive been trying to learn some new shuffles lately.

can someone tab out some cool shuffles for me to learn?
i can play rosanna, Purdiesque, purdie, and thats about it.

the one i wanted tabbed out especially was fool in the rain.
thanks.

Those are 1/2 time shuffles, meaning they are played in 16th note triplets instead of 1/8th note triplets. I'm not good with tabbing - making all the parts line up correctly, but, I'll give it a try. Maybe the resident notation guru (MDA) can notate it later.

This is a typical shuffle based on a jazz ride rhythm, 2 measures:

XOOXOXXOOXOXIXOOXOXXOOXOX Ride
OOXXOXOOXXOXIOOXXOXOOXXOX Snare
XOOXOOXOOXOOIXOOXOOXOOXOO Bass Drum
OOOXOOOOOXOOIOOOXOOOOOXOO High Hats

Typical tempo would be 180-200bpm.

[elmo]

bump...,,,,,,m,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[RudimentalDrummer]

Woww..actually guys I was just practing this Jazz Shuffle Density last night. I got it from DRUM MAGAZINE, August Edition 2005, Page 170. The half-time shuffle exercises were written by Wally Schnalle (I don't know who's he) who has performed with Eddie Gale, Ernie Watts & The San Jose Symphony Orchestra. ((itrhymes.com)

He quoted "sometimes sparse wide-open drumming is very powerful, while other times some snare chatter propels the groove better." as such the example he gave on the half-time shuffles is of different densities to give the drummer more choice and he quote: - KEEP THE GHOST NOTES LOW AND QUITE.

All 4 exercises were with Accent ... I can play it but I can't control the Ghosting well.....

Just wondering why did he put in a way as "JAZZ Shuffle Density" .... Is this Jazz???? I play it and I know I play it correctly (1 a2 a3 a4 a - on the Hi-hat .. correct ?) but hahahaha I don't know actually what I'm playing & for what type of songs? ....poor me.

[NUTHA JASON]

XOOXOXXOOXOX I XOOXOXXOOXOX Ride
OOXXOXOOXXOX I OOXXOXOOXXOX Snare
XOOXOOXOOXOO I XOOXOOXOOXOO Bass Drum
OOOXOOOOOXOO I OOOXOOOOOXOO High Hats


please post all ASC charting in courier font as ut then lines up properly
ta

j

[RudimentalDrummer]

i use Reason 3.0 (software)


Where can I buy it ... Ex$$$ ?. I'm staying in Singapore

[groovesticks]

Is this the right one?
http://www.drumschoolfredlankamp.nl/scores/Toto-Rosanna.pdf
or
putting on the second bar (of the page I put) the bass drum on the third note of the hi hat (as some one else worte for me).
I will appreciate any other tips about this groove!
By the way, which study year do you think this track is for?
Thank you very much!!!

Groovesticks

[Bernhard]

Want to know how to play Rosanna??

Let's explain the master himself:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jeffporcaro.html

Bernhard

Is possible to learn in the second year - but to make it groove perhabs 10 years....lol

(This is a thread for the Drum Technique Section)

[groovesticks]

lol, ya, You do need time to make it sound like a good groove!
I saw the video and it doesn't sound in the track that the bass drum and the snar fall together in the second time (like Jeff shows in the video).
I dont know if I should trust my eyes or ears :)
Thanks Berbhard

[Bernhard]

Trust the master and your eyes and ears and play both variants....he's also changing it all the time, also throwing in a double stroke with the BD in the beginning.

Bernhard

[groovesticks]

Ok I will try adding the double bd and all the variants, I guess it would do only good.
If you say he change it all the time so it really is good to master them all.
By the way if you read my post here...
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS GREAT SITE!!!!!!!!!!!!! you are doing a wonderful work!!!!!!
Thanks bernhard! :)


Groovesticks

[MunsieMan]

the challenge is for one of you guys to copy this and add the hihat foot accent. where does it go? let's see who gets it in the right places first.



CY|X-----------------------|------------------------|
HH|------O-----X---X-X---X-|X---O-X-X---X---X-X-X---|
SN|------------X-----------|------------X-----------| ETC ETC …
BD|X---X-----X-----------X-|X---X-----X-----------X-|


the "O" indicates the open high hat

[NUTHA JASON]

finally we have a winner. well done munsieman. trust bonham to put it there. what a great groove! your air drumset will be with you soon...its coming in the owl post and will arrive in Octember.

j

[MunsieMan]

lol thanks i hope my air drum kit is a orange vista lite ludwig drum kit with a supra phonic snare and paiste symbols... just like bonham lol i thought i should answer that john bonham groove question since no one jump to the chance, not bad for a 15 year old huh :P

[MunsieMan]

I found this in an old Modern Drummer its the John Bonham Fool In The Rain half time shuffle groove sheet music i copied the main groove for you guys

[HardRockDrummer]

yer i think that's the correct groove (the sheet music), on the tabbed one there's an extra hi-hat after the open hi-hat. i'm not too sure though. correct me if i'm wrong. that's the only half-time shuffle groove that i can play out of the three at the moment, so i'd like to know if i'm playing it right.

[MunsieMan]

i found another sheet music transcript of Fool In The Rain enjoy

[MrB0jangles]

That's the part of Fool in The Rain I could figure out on my own. Do any of you happen to have the music for the little Latinish thingy in the middle of the song. I have deduced that he plays a snare drum pattern with some tom fills around it, but I'm not sure where he puts the accents. I think the snare pattern is straight 16ths though. And I think they look something like this, but I'm not sure:

OoOoOOoOoOoOOoOo repeat with some tom fills...

I'm not sure if I got it right though. Someone tell me if I'm on the right track.

[MunsieMan]

http://www.saladrecords.com/BonhamFile23.mp3

check it out theres the snare part from fool in the rain i can play it and sounds about right i think your close the accents in fool in the rain change near the end and the tom fills were recorded seperatly so you dont have 2 be to worried about that unless your in a led zeppelin tribute band and want to get note for note, the main part you have to worry about is keeping in time i like to keep my high hat going and when you get right in time you feel like you accomplished something lol

[JohnMunsey]

Does anyone know if Purdie or Porcaro used the Moeller Technique for the shuffle?

[liquidrhythm]

NIXED THIS POST....NO IDEA HOW TO LINE UP THE FONTS TO TAB STUFF OUT

[NUTHA JASON]

USE THIS COURIER FONT.

J

[NUTHA JASON]

just for fun i recorded myself playing a bit of fool in the rain. unfortunately i haven't got the recording process 100% yet and my bass trigger is acting up which is why i'm playing the bass so hard and without as much swing as i would if i was on an accoustic but, you get the idea.


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=33RVUAKV
(http://www.megaupload.com/?d=33RVUAKV)
j

[MunsieMan]

lol that was good i liked the end it made me laugh, when you play fool in the rain on the accent on the snares bring your right hand off the high hat and hit the snare see if you can do that it looks alot cooler i tried it myself and now i play it with my right on the accents all ghost notes are with my left hand though

[NUTHA JASON]

actually that's good advice it may make it swing more. just the whole body movement alone. thanks.
bringing the hand off the hihat works for mr watts too.
j

[dothecrunge]

http://www.saladrecords.com/BonhamFile23.mp3

check it out theres the snare part from fool in the rain i can play it and sounds about right i think your close the accents in fool in the rain change near the end and the tom fills were recorded seperatly so you dont have 2 be to worried about that unless your in a led zeppelin tribute band and want to get note for note, the main part you have to worry about is keeping in time i like to keep my high hat going and when you get right in time you feel like you accomplished something lol

The toms weren't recorded seperately. That drum track floating around on the internet is not the drum track they use on the song.

[dothecrunge]

just for fun i recorded myself playing a bit of fool in the rain. unfortunately i haven't got the recording process 100% yet and my bass trigger is acting up which is why i'm playing the bass so hard and without as much swing as i would if i was on an accoustic but, you get the idea.


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=33RVUAKV
(http://www.megaupload.com/?d=33RVUAKV)
j

I downloaded that, but it wasn't a .mov file, it was an HTML page, that opens up to nothing. Re-upload it maybe?

[HardRockDrummer]

i couldn't download it either. nutha, do you think you could put it on putfiles.com like you did with the sticktwirling videos?

[NUTHA JASON]

http://media.putfile.com/fool-1
try it here then.

[MunsieMan]

actually that's good advice it may make it swing more. just the whole body movement alone. thanks.
bringing the hand off the hihat works for mr watts too.
j

YAY this is my first idea on the drummer world forum that someone actually agreed with ill post a video of how it should look today or tomorrow

[dothecrunge]

http://media.putfile.com/fool-1
try it here then.

I like the Gonzo at the end! I'm assuming you know that Gonzo was modeled after Bonzo.

[MunsieMan]

Alright it took me FOREVER to upload this because im on Dial Up and its such a short clip SO YOU BETTER NOT SAY ANYTHING MEAN!!!! lol just kidding, but not really



http://s9.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1GK5T0CDNR95Q1V5EDCG09DISO (http://s9.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1GK5T0CDNR95Q1V5EDCG09DISO)

[NUTHA JASON]

nice. you put in the double snare accent in. i forgot to do that. can you do the latin part? actually that's the easiest part of the song IMO. Neither of us swung it quite long bonham tho. damn. perhaps if we had a guide track it would be easier.

j

[MunsieMan]

ya if i had high speed internet i would record me playing along to the whole song including the latin part and then break it down for the people who dont no... all it is is right left its just where you get those accents in, and man i wish i could play that song like bonham

[boomboomda]

Hi guys,

I am new here so make this my first post. Jeff Porcaro uses the half time shuffle also in "Mama" on the "Hydra" album and on "These chains" I do not remember the name of that album right now, but that is the one with the song "Pamela" on it.I think it is the 6th album they made.They both really cool too.

[MunsieMan]

wow this topic really died, anyway i was at this bar a few days ago (i drank pepsi :D) and this drummer was awsome its a band called Straight Shooters the drummer played with Rush b4 Neil Pert played with them and hes AWSOME he had this supra phonic snare and they did Fool In The Rain and it was IMO better then John Bonham, i mean for loudness and what not defanitly bonham but this style he was playing it was so diffrent and sounded cooler and oh did he make it groove so well

[Ashbash]

What's the difference between shuffle and half-time shuffle? By the way, on the plug Dvd for K custom sessions, Gadd was doing this shuffle where the second hi-hat was done with the foot. Do any of you do that, and can make it without the first hit open?

[berlioz]

What's the difference between shuffle and half-time shuffle? By the way, on the plug Dvd for K custom sessions, Gadd was doing this shuffle where the second hi-hat was done with the foot. Do any of you do that, and can make it without the first hit open?

theres basically 3 types of shuffle feels, 2 of them most drummers are familiar with, while the other is usually misunderstood and mistaken for a half-time shuffle.

-with the standard shuffle pattern, backbeat falls on 2 and 4.

-with the half-time shuffle pattern, backbeat falls on 3 (the tune 'fool in the rain' is good example)

-and then we have the double-time shuffle (also known as hi-hop shuffle) back beat falls on 2 and 4... and you double-up on the hi-hat shuffle pattern (and a good example of this is the tune 'Rosanna' which is almost ALWAYS confused with a half time shuffle) although 'Rosanna' may sound like a half-time shuffle when played on its own, if you listen to the tune, you can clearly hear that its a double-time shuffle.
The tune Rosanna is played at about 88bpm, so Jeff doubles-up on the hi-hat shuffle pattern and the back beat falls on 2 and 4, hence we have whats known as a double time shuffle.

Heres a link to the transcription of Jeffs double time shuffle 'rosanna' from their official web site

http://www.toto99.com/jeff/drumpatterns.shtml

you can hear alot of different double-time shuffles in hip-hop music.

the half-time and double-time shuffle are similar in sound, but its the tempo of the tune which will determine where the back beat will fall and the type of shuffle it becomes.

i have not seen this Gadd dvd that you are talking about, but i believe your talking about the 'Gadd Shuffle' where he will play the 3rd triplet in every beat with just his hi-hat foot (like the 50 ways groove) ive seen him do this shuffle pattern live and it sounds really cool. He does a really nice job on this shuffle pattern on the tune 'dannys all star joint' from Rickie Lee Jones.

[KR3]

Isn't the song by Boz Scaggs a shuffle grove too? Lido Shuffle?

[berlioz]

Isn't the song by Boz Scaggs a shuffle grove too? Lido Shuffle?

Yup, a good old standard shuffle.

[IronSabbath]

Does anyone have correct tabs for this zeppelin song? I could only find the standard one and it doesnt have the times or anything.. And am I the only one having trouble with this song? It sounds so simple yet its not.

sorry if this is the wrong forum for my question

[jangus]

Look here.
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=986

[bodinski]

and here:
http://www.icanplaydrums.net/bigdrum_jan1_2006.htm

[Anathema]

Just a post on the almighty shuffle.. Ahmir Thompson aka Questlove plays a shuffle beat while grooving with Rhazel.. the Hip Hop Shuffle!.. amazing feel.. think its called The roots _uestlove vs. Rhazel ..

[mikei]

Hello all,

For the last couple of months, on and off, I have been practicing the main groove. I have it pretty well down. I make mistakes every now and again when attempting to put fills in, but this is by far the hardest groove I have attempted.

The ghost notes are by far my biggest challenge. Now, with my new snare and lots of practice, they sound more like ghost notes.

Now, I have moved to the groove section with the ride cymbal played with quarter note triplets. I hear an light accent on the on the 2 and 4. I can't tell if they are ghost note or a hi hat. Do any of you know?

With all of the major tabs websites down due to litigation, I am left wondering.

Thank you for any help you can give.

Mike

[Bernhard]

did you check out Jeff Porcaro explaining the Fool in the rain-groove??


Here:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Drumclinic/Jeff_Porcaro.html


enjoy or practice - lol. If you manage it to sound good and groove on the hi-hat, it will be easy on the Ride......

Check out also a great groove from Dennis:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/dennischamberspearl.html

Bernhard

[mikei]

Yes I did!

He makes it look so, so easy.

I have the first part down with muscle memory. I can play it and talk at the same time.

It is just when he goes into the ride groove.

I have it pretty well down using ghost notes, but wonder if he is using the hi hat there instead.

[palmeris]

I also have been trying to learn fool in the rain, I think that it is such a cool groove!

Here is some notation of the ride part of groove that you are having trouble with, I hope it helps

[DreamTheater4life]

mike and toms excellent adventure - dream theater

On DVD set with Mike Portnoy

-----

In the movie payback with mel gibson, they feature a chase scene with this groove

-----

thats all i can remember for now

it's chris and kevin's excellent adventure....liquid tension experiment did that...not dt

[Reiste]

This has been a long thread, but if we're still looking for places the half-time shuffle/Purdie shuffle is used, check out the movie Ronin!

If I remember correctly, just before the ambush and during the following car chase, there is a fantastic version of that shuffle. Utterly grooving. It's what made me look up this thread!

[Paul Quin]

Although the thread is about the half time shuffle I am now confused as to whether this is still the appropriate place to talk about other songs that utilize this groove! While Fool in the Rain is a great example of this feel I really have nothing to add to what has already been said other then to suggest everyone learns how to play it!

as far as other songs with this feel there are many many more than have been mentioned. This feel extends well past Rosanna, Babylon Sister, Home at Last and Fool in the Rain. Just in the more modern context check out Daniel Powter's "Bad "Day (fits a half time shuffle perfectly) or James Taylor's "Sweet Potato Pie" (with - I think - the late great (truly great) Carlos Vega) or Little Feat's "Rock and Roll Doctor" - especially the version on the Tribute to Lowell George played by someone else whose name escapes me.

Happy grooving

Paul

[Joshdrilling]

Wait! I must revive this! How do you do the "samba" part in Fool in the Rain when John Bonham goes to the ride?

[drummermandan]

The half time shuffle is a great groove, one of my favourites. First time I learnt it was on a Rod Morganstein video that he made in the 80's called 'Putting It All Together' (I'm not sure if it is available anymore) , but I really like the Bonham and Pocaro versions.

Another place to check out this groove is on a film called Ronin, if you get the soundtrack, the piece of music that has this groove is called 'This Is The Day'.

[AjminSko]

So I´m sorry to ask again since I know it´s sorta been asked before but has Bernard Purdie made any books about his shuffle?
I saw a previous poster in this thread posted some tabs but I can´t see the images on my computer.
Anyway I serached this board but can´t really find it.
I´m looking for a transcription or something similar to the grooves and licks he pulls off in this video http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Bernard_Purdieshuffle1.html

Again I´m sorry about posting but I could use som direction or help as to where I can find it...
Cheerios

[aydee]

All the half time shuffle landmark pieces are great in their own way ( Bonham's, Porcaro's , Purdie's ) , but the guy who plays it really really well, with incredible h/f variations, and super-funky with a flavor of his own IMO, is Zoro..

[NUTHA JASON]

you're talking about his bit on the modern drummer 2005 dvd. yes?

total agreement.

j

[aydee]

Yes, I was pretty blown away by him demonstrating every possible variable there is in the shuffle, and keep it so funky at the same time.

[NUTHA JASON]

it's zoro's demonstration that inspired me to put up the halftimeshuffle lesson on my website. such a nice man too.

j

[aydee]

Very nicely explained on your site, Jason. Great Vids too. I still have trouble with the ghosted snare tap - the one right after the snare hit on 3 ,being too loud, so it sounds like 2 snare hits.. need really good dynamics to play this one well.

Pudie softens it and hardens it at will... with those suddens explosive fills in the middle .He's great though.

The only thing I dont like about him is the sound of his snare.....oooo that ring kills me..

[LinearDrummer]

All the half time shuffle landmark pieces are great in their own way ( Bonham's, Porcaro's , Purdie's ) , but the guy who plays it really really well, with incredible h/f variations, and super-funky with a flavor of his own IMO, is Zoro..

you're talking about his bit on the modern drummer 2005 dvd. yes?


You guys are soooo on point....

IMO - His breakdown of all the possible ghost note permutations is the hightlight of the DVD...

Also I've noticed that the swiss triplet is a perfect/natural fill to use off of the half-time shuffle groove....

[dea]

The shuffle - in general - kicks butt.

[aydee]

Didnt this thread have that freaky version of Dennis Chambers playing the half time shuffle? ( open handed.. type thang? )...

cant find it..........

[Deltadrummer]

No, that was the Dennis Chambers polyshuffle thread.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21381

But resurrecting this thread gives us another opportunity to say how much we love Purdie.:)

[aydee]

No, that was the Dennis Chambers polyshuffle thread.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21381

But resurrecting this thread gives us another opportunity to say how much we love Purdie.:)

You bet.. Working on it right now..It has got to be the hardest thing to get the damn right hand down on the snare from the ride on 3, muscle memory is telling me different ; ).............thanks, Ken.

[wilsonbangy]

I did this video as a guide into the basics of the purdie, porcaro bonham shuffle .. i hope this helps as it is one of the best grooves ever and really good fun to play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtMQo83QlTY

Keep on drumming

Peace all

James

[danander11]

Nice video...

Thanks!

[Big_Philly]

Nice video indeed. I use matched grip and a slightly different sticking technique than yours, but it works for me. Getting the feel of the ghostnotes right while hitting the snare drum harder on the 2 and 4 is the hardest part indeed, it took me months to get that under control.

[aydee]

Nicely done. I'd be interested in foot pattern variations explained. Zorro does a great job on the MD 2005 dvds, but would be nice to see it broken down.

cheers

[Vinnysimmo]

Interesting.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,

[Drumze]

Here's my attempt:

Purdie Shuffle (http://www.groovedrumming.com/downloads/DZ_Bernard_Purdie_Shuffle_1.mp3)

[wilsonbangy]

sorry i posted the video to the wrong bit .. i did'nt see this thread .. My bad .. Thanks for moving it here

James

[aydee]

Here's my attempt:

Purdie Shuffle (http://www.groovedrumming.com/downloads/DZ_Bernard_Purdie_Shuffle_1.mp3)

Rock Solid. good job.. great ending; )

[Drumze]

Thank you so much aydee. Needed some kind of ending :)

[Drumze]

Finally got around to making a video of the way I play it.

YouTube Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tNJU7mFZHg)

[LunarNote]

Finally got around to making a video of the way I play it.

YouTube Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tNJU7mFZHg)

accurate playing of the fool in the rain groove, but definitely practice it woth a metronome, you speed up up pretty significantly within the first 2 bars.

[flugadaflum]

BABYLON SISTERS and HOME AT LAST: both Steely Dan tunes, both played by the originator Bernard Purdie, both so much better as songs than the Toto or Zeppelin tune. You can't beat Steely Dan.

[LunarNote]

BABYLON SISTERS and HOME AT LAST: both Steely Dan tunes, both played by the originator Bernard Purdie, both so much better as songs than the Toto or Zeppelin tune. You can't beat Steely Dan.

besides the killing grooves in the two steely dan tunes and the toto tune, i don't particularly like those songs. steely dan, while i am warming up to them, is pretty sterile as a group, same with toto. im NOT denying that their grooves are fat as hell, im just saying, that toto is pretty damned cheesy. i dont feel that way about fool in the rain, or pretty much any zeppelin songs.

[cbenoi1]

Don't know if this was mentionned, but the song "The Little Things You Give Away" from Linkin Park's "Minutes to Midnight" album contains a half-time shuffle in the latter part of the song.

-cb

[Jim Penebaker]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it but there's tracks that exist on the internet of Led Zeppelin's In Through the Outdoor record that are drums only. Somehow someone got the master tape and recorded the drums with the rest of the instruments muted. You can hear Fool in the Rain basically under a microscope. You even hear Bonham counting it off. It's great to play along to.

[Crydevil]

Hey everyone :D !

A couple of days ago, I saw a clip on YouTube which showes Bernard Purdie grooving with an awesome shuffle, something similar to the shuffle in Fool In The Rain by Led Zeppelin, only in a different time signature (I think ^^).

(Clip = Click Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pclpe8dT7cY&feature=related) )

But, do you guys know of any way to get this right, because I just can't seem to. The double hi-hat strokes are kind of stealing my concentration from adding my ghost-notes and bass drum strokes.
Is there any good DVD or video that explains this step by step or something? :P Cause I'd really like to get the hang of this awesome groove.

I guess it's just the idea of getting used to something entirely else than a 4/4 single stroke right hand (or whatever ... ^^ just single stroke).

Thanks a million in advance guys !

Greets !
Crydevil

[Bernhard]

The Videos are here on Drummerworld, Part I and II :

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Bernard_Purdie.html

Check out also the Rosanna Shuffle by Jeff Porcaro: He compares the Purdie Shuffle to the John Bonham Shuffle and shows it exactly:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jeffporcaroshuffle.html

Bernhard

[Toby_Jackson]

Ah, my favorite groove! First off, you also need to track down Babylon Sisters by Steely Dan (Purdie plays his shuffle on this one, so smooth) and Rosanna by Toto (Porcaro's slick, kick-happy version of it).

Then you need to practice, very slowly. It's a tough feel to do right, but once you get it - ahhh - feels so good!

Start just by playing 12/8 feel, simple kick, snare, kick, snare on the quarter notes, with triplets on the hats (1 & a 2 & a 3 & a 4& a). Do this for a good, long time.

The next step will be to double the rate of your triplets, playing six notes for every count in the beat. I count it as 1 trip let & trip let 2 trip let & trip let etc., still playing the kick on 1 and 3, with the snare on 2 and 4. Again, repeat this at length.

The big jump will be to remove the middle note in your triplet, the "trip" in my counting pattern above. This will leave you with the double time shuffle that Purdie perfected. When this starts to feel good, start trying to fill in that "trip" note with your snare - I would also practice the sticking RLRRLRRLRRLR separately on your snare or a pad.

This groove's a real pig to get down the first few times you try it, and it's a feel that is difficult to master even when you have the basic coordination down. But man, when you get it, it's just one of the tastiest grooves on the planet. When you think you've got the basic feel down, pay attention to Porcaro's kick drum placement in "Rosanna" - lots of ideas for independence in that one!

[Mapex589]

I just saw Bernard play live with the Godfathers Of Groove here in St. Louis and it was sooo amazing to watch him play a shuffle. What feel....it was amazing. It was also very cool to meet the man, what an honor. Shuffles take a while to master, it helped me to go back and play along to some old basic blues shuffles to get and understand the feel first. Good luck!

[Crydevil]

The Videos are here on Drummerworld, Part I and II :

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Bernard_Purdie.html

Check out also the Rosanna Shuffle by Jeff Porcaro: He compares the Purdie Shuffle to the John Bonham Shuffle and shows it exactly:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jeffporcaroshuffle.html

Bernhard
Hey Bernhard,

Thank you for the links, they're very useful :D !

Greets !
Crydevil

[Crydevil]

Ah, my favorite groove! First off, you also need to track down Babylon Sisters by Steely Dan (Purdie plays his shuffle on this one, so smooth) and Rosanna by Toto (Porcaro's slick, kick-happy version of it).

Then you need to practice, very slowly. It's a tough feel to do right, but once you get it - ahhh - feels so good!

Start just by playing 12/8 feel, simple kick, snare, kick, snare on the quarter notes, with triplets on the hats (1 & a 2 & a 3 & a 4& a). Do this for a good, long time.

The next step will be to double the rate of your triplets, playing six notes for every count in the beat. I count it as 1 trip let & trip let 2 trip let & trip let etc., still playing the kick on 1 and 3, with the snare on 2 and 4. Again, repeat this at length.

The big jump will be to remove the middle note in your triplet, the "trip" in my counting pattern above. This will leave you with the double time shuffle that Purdie perfected. When this starts to feel good, start trying to fill in that "trip" note with your snare - I would also practice the sticking RLRRLRRLRRLR separately on your snare or a pad.

This groove's a real pig to get down the first few times you try it, and it's a feel that is difficult to master even when you have the basic coordination down. But man, when you get it, it's just one of the tastiest grooves on the planet. When you think you've got the basic feel down, pay attention to Porcaro's kick drum placement in "Rosanna" - lots of ideas for independence in that one!
Hey :D,

Indeed man, must be a blast when you get the hang of this :D !
Thanks a million for the explanation, although I have little knowledge when it comes to time signatures, so it's gonna take a while to even figure out what a 12/8 feel is, so to speak xD.

But thanks alot man !

Greets !
Crydevil

[Crydevil]

I just saw Bernard play live with the Godfathers Of Groove here in St. Louis and it was sooo amazing to watch him play a shuffle. What feel....it was amazing. It was also very cool to meet the man, what an honor. Shuffles take a while to master, it helped me to go back and play along to some old basic blues shuffles to get and understand the feel first. Good luck!
Hey :)

Lucky you !
Must've been a blast !

Thanks man !

Greets !
Crydevil

[Hercraft]

The big jump will be to remove the middle note in your triplet, the "trip" in my counting pattern above. This will leave you with the double time shuffle that Purdie perfected. When this starts to feel good, start trying to fill in that "trip" note with your snare - I would also practice the sticking RLRRLRRLRRLR separately on your snare or a pad.

Thanks Toby, very good instructions!

So, whats de purpose of the sticking RLRRLRRLRRLR??

[aydee]

So, whats de purpose of the sticking RLRRLRRLRRLR??

I don't see the specific purpose unless it is to practice and be able to play it accenting any note with any hand.

Chk out Dennis Chamber's version, which challenges the idea and really makes you think & work on the sticking..

[Hercraft]

I don't see the specific purpose unless it is to practice and be able to play it accenting any note with any hand.

Chk out Dennis Chamber's version, which challenges the idea and really makes you think & work on the sticking..

I will checkit out. Thanks!

[rootheart]

how do you guys play that groove...i would really like to apply that in my drumming in church....
I always get laughs when I say for this groove it really helps to practise the swiss army triplet rudiment, but I don´t care..here is my approach (receipe) to make the ghostnotes come natural and easy, specially the difficult one that comes right after the snare on two and four:
Do not play a shuffle and then stress yourself trying to add the ghostnotes, but:
1. Practise "one-way-"triplets: RLR-RLR...
2. Practise the swiss army triplet: rLLR-rLLR...(notice the first L is a flam with the main stroke strongly accented).
3. Then combine these 2 rudiments:
/:RLR-RLR-rLLR-RLR:/
When this flows naturally, almost automatically, then play right hand on hihat, left hand on snare. Then bring the flam and the main stroke together (I don´t because I like a little friction). After you are really comfortable with this, practise to play the bassdrum unisono with any of the R strokes, and as for Rosanna, of course listen to Boo Diddley.
To play the snare accent not only on 2 and 4, once a while just combine these 2 rudiments any other way you want. It is very important that sound and volume of your snare taps blend well with your hihat. Have fun!

[Deltadrummer]

Chk out Dennis Chamber's version, which challenges the idea and really makes you think & work on the sticking..

What are you trying to torture us?? :)

[matasanero]

another song that has the half time shuffle feel is Breaking Away by Al Jarreau with Jeff percaro on drums . listen at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk0rU_ZJ9yc

[zambizzi]

My first exposure to this groove was "Fool in the Rain". When I first heard that, the groove blew my mind...but I wasn't drumming then and didn't try to make sense of it.

Learning how to play this groove isn't too terribly difficult...but making it *feel* good is a challenge. The ghost notes have to be just right, it's gotta swing, and the dynamics really pull it all together.

Love it!