Art Verdi's Finger Technique

[JohnMunsey]

Can someone provide a step-by-step instruction of Art's finger technique?

I want to know how my wrist isnt supposed to move and if I can play accents in these

[Raymond Bloom]

I don't think he's using a specific fingercontroll it's just fingercontroll

[beatsMcGee]

I don't think he's using a specific fingercontroll it's just fingercontroll

fulcrum between the thumb and frist nuckle of the index, ack finger cradle the stick and support through the motions, then at faster speeds wrist becomes static and fingers produce the strokes... but like he said no set way its just finger control...

[centralzeke]

You need really good wrist technique before diving into finger control.

But like Beats said, what happens is the thumb and first finger hold the stick in place while the back three fingers moreorless dribble the stick. Once you get the hang of this, you can actually make your wrist play faster, which is cool in itself, and THEN you should study finger control.

You can play accents with these up to a certain speed, you play them with a snap of the wrist and it actually helps your endurance, a.k.a. Moeller technique. TigerBill has this thing on his site where he plays accents still using just fingers by throwing the last stroke (accent) down harder than the rest, I can't really do this yet but it's a cool idea.

[JohnMunsey]

Central,

That's a great explanation, thanks!

Good knowledge! So the wrists get better too as the fingers get better?

[centralzeke]

Yeah once you get some decent finger control, your wrist speed increases a little too cause there's less tension, your fingers are helping out your wrists more, and you're learning to control the bounce (aka only playing down, not lifting up), pretty much the same as mastering the free stroke.

To get good though, you want to get the most out of your wrist technique before solely concentrating on finger technique. I think many people haven't even developed good wrist technique. Above all, "stay relaxed" is something guys like verdi, tigerbill, morello, chapin, and any smart drummer/teacher preach.

[math_metal_182]

Hmm, everyone uses the finger-bouncing technique, but Verdi's secret is that he uses the back three fingers independantly (spelling?) rather than altogeather. So, one stroke would be generated by the pinky, the next by the ring, and then the next by the rude one - in quick succession. This allows you to do the ol' one handed rolls if you get it down (obviously it's difficult).

If you wanna do it on both hands, the order could go: right pinky, left pinky, right ring, left ring, right middle and left middle over and over...This is technically difficult, and a co-ordination issue, but should allow you to play around 2.5 times faster than normal (over twice as fast, anyways, because you are generating 3 strokes where there would usually be 1. To use an american high-school cliche: 'you do the math'.

[centralzeke]

Hmm, everyone uses the finger-bouncing technique, but Verdi's secret is that he uses the back three fingers independantly (spelling?) rather than altogeather. So, one stroke would be generated by the pinky, the next by the ring, and then the next by the rude one - in quick succession. This allows you to do the ol' one handed rolls if you get it down (obviously it's difficult).

If you wanna do it on both hands, the order could go: right pinky, left pinky, right ring, left ring, right middle and left middle over and over...This is technically difficult, and a co-ordination issue, but should allow you to play around 2.5 times faster than normal (over twice as fast, anyways, because you are generating 3 strokes where there would usually be 1. To use an american high-school cliche: 'you do the math'.

He doesn't mention each finger independently on his video. I've found the middle finger seems to be the most capable of doing most of the work.

[Scatman]

It looks to me Art Verdi is making every stroke with the fingers alternating
The stick is between the first two fingers

[johnhavart]

I don't think Art is alternating fingers but asking him directly should be the
solution to this interesting issue

[Scatman]

Art's fingers are moving wildly on that stick but for the life of me I can't figure how the stick is moving

[centralzeke]

It's matched grip finger technique. At high speeds, the wrist hardly moves. The fulcrum holds the stick in place while the back three fingers manipulate the stick. It might look like it's alternating fingers because all of them are moving, but I highly doubt it, he would have mentioned this in his DVD or somewhere.

[Scatman]

I do not see Art's pinky involved moving the stick
Please explain what you mean

[HardcoreLogo]

Dave Weckl addresses finger control on his old DVD "Back to Basics", there is a good triplet excersise on there as well..............

[Jeff Almeyda]

I'm gonna see him tomorrow. I'll let you know.

[JohnMunsey]

I'm gonna see him tomorrow. I'll let you know.

Cool, would be great to hear details on this

[skinny]

What area is this TV show and what channel?

[Jeff Almeyda]

I was with Art Verdi last week. His finger control technique is Gladstone with a little modification.

Essentially, his fulcrum is between the first joint of the index finger and the thumb. The back 3 fingers are used to manipulate the stick. This is textbook Gladstone finger technique.

Art's little modification is that he also uses the index finger itself to aid in moving the stick. I naturally used to do that and I always felt best like that but many teachers over the past few years have told me it's not correct.

Art's point of view is that as long as the fulcrum is solid, the index finger can and should get in on the fun.

I have to say that Art is an incredible teacher of this stuff. I recommend anyone in the NY/NJ area who wants badass chops go to him. He gets results. He's also a sweet guy.

Jeff

PS: Dan, Great speaking to you as well and see you at NAMM!

[johnhavart]

[QUOTE=Jeff Almeyda;257901
Art's little modification is that he also uses the index finger itself to aid in moving the stick. I naturally used to do that and I always felt best like that but many teachers over the past few years have told me it's not correct.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks Jeff for this information

I also use my finger the way Art does. I've always wondered why so many teachers say it's not correct. Has anybody have an idea ?

[junglelord]

I have recently gotten into finger tapping and on a elemental level for me what I do is use one wrist shot and then finger tap the next three on my hi hat work or ride cymbal work...so throw 234, throw234.... counting index /middle/ ring finger as 234. It makes each stroke very percise, allows one to count with their fingers and all in all is very simple yet very profoundly different then doing wrist strokes only for a hi hat groove or ride cymbal.

Anyone else do this?
Give it a try if you have not.
Cheers

[Scatman]

JohnHavert::: why do teachers say using the index finger is incorrect?
To me there are no rules applying this technique
I notice every drummer has a different way of using finger technique
The final results is what counts as long as the sticks are in your hands

[h3r3tic]

Even Jim Chapin said that there´s no wondering thing than the fulcrum of hand handle...
And Derrick Pope prooved that you could hold with your index, with your middle finger or even at the old school way using the 2 back fingers.

Tiger Bill also showed on a video that you can hold it at weird ways to like putting your stick between your index and middle finger.

So as long as there's a fulcrum, I think there's no problem!
I personaly use the index :)

[vadrum]

i think the issue w/ telling students to use the index finger as the fulcrum reflects the fact that it is easy for the student to fall into the bad habit of squeezing the thumb and index finger together in order to force out faster tempos, etc. squeezing those 2 fingers together when gripping the stick is a definite no no.

try this experiment. pinch your index finger and thumb together while you leave the back 3 fingers loose and try to move your wrist up and down (like youre waving goodbye). you can move the wrist, but you will most likely feel a little resistance when doing so. now, try leaving the thumb and index finger lose and close the back 3 fingers to your palm and then try moving your wrist up and down. you should find that the resistance disappears.

[skinny]

Anybody recommend practicing finger technqiue using 1 lb metal sticks

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Anybody recommend practicing finger technqiue using 1 lb metal sticks

The whole point is that you don't use those sticks.

[skinny]

If the fingers guide a 1 lb stick why wouldn't that work to develop more speed with a regular stick?
What about the weights they have for drumsticks for wrist and finger deveopment?

[Jeff Almeyda]

If the fingers guide a 1 lb stick why wouldn't that work to develop more speed with a regular stick?
What about the weights they have for drumsticks for wrist and finger deveopment?

What ends up happening is finger and hand strain because the stick is to heavy for the little finger muscles.

Forget about shortcuts like this. Just use your regular sticks and practice regularly. You'll get better.

[mosher]

It's called over taxing the muscles
Jeff is right and just practice with regular sticks
I think using heavier sticks like this could cause tendinits

[Scatman]

I saw a book a few years called How to develop lightning fast chops
The author recommended you start the first 15 minutes using heavy parade sticks and just make taps
The author playing something on audio and sounded very fast