RECORDING DRUMS - tips, questions, equipment, etc.

[rendezvous_drummer]

I am trying to record my drum part onto my computer but I'm not sure where and how i should set up my drum. When I've played and recorded my drumming, it sounds terrible and the crash cymbals drown the rest of the drums. Where would be the best place to record my drums at home?

[Joe Morris]

Its probably not where your recording them thats giving you the most problems. It how your miking them, what kind of mics your using, mike placement and so on. You need to individually mike each drum then use over heads or room mics for your cymbals. If your just using one mic or something try hovering it over the toms. Hope this helps a little.

Joe Morris

www.joemorris.net (http://www.joemorris.net)

[rendezvous_drummer]

well i got one mike in front of the bass, and i have 2 mics hovering above the toms. It still gives it a trashy sound.

[DR.WHOO]

Hi
recording a drum in home is not so simple but it isn't impossible..
First of all the small is the room where u are gonna record the most u have to stop the skins in order to stop vibrations and overtones.
obviously if u have a room with good insonorization is different but maybe u have not.
So the things i'm gonna say to u are though having in mind a home situation,maybe your room or garage or livingroom.(if u have carpet or sofa is better because it stops frequences)
U can also modify acoustic in your room but it isn't so symple .
Let's mic:

two ways ..the first is too busy if the room is little : put one mic for piece.
No good idea in my opinion for your situation because u'll have too many noise and too many track recorded with it in sound.

U should put one mic in bass drum and two over head panoramic mic.(pan will record also the snare)
that's it
the more mic u put the more noise u record.
So keep in mind that if mic are too near cymbals u 'll record a lot of noise and overtones.
U have to try and listen (experience is very usefull..try and try)
If u have too noise try to equalize the track or moove mics more near or far from drumset(the result will depend on your room and on the mic's gain)
then u can record
listen to what u have recorded ..if there's too noise try to reduce the mic's gain because maybe (if room is little) the volume is too high and the mic doesn't work in a good way.

Ok i think it's more or less all..sorry for my english and i hope u have understood what i've tried to explain .
if u need some more explanations tell me..

bye

T

[Anduin]

You need a good sounding room. That's by far the most important thing. Close-miking everything will get you around a mediocre-sounding room, but I'm guessing you're only using a couple of mics.

You should be able to get a decent sound with two reasonable mics. Use one on the bass drum. If you've got a hole in the head, start with the mic peeking into the hole aimed exactly where your beater hits. For the overhead(s), avoid as much of the ambient room sound as you can by putting them fairly low and close to the kit. Remember that sound comes off the top and bottom of the cymbals, not the edge. The same goes for the drums. Use that knowledge to help you balance toms and cymbals.

With those things in mind, move the mics around bit by bit until you get something you like the sound of. It might take a while, and will probably involve setting mics, recording a bit, listening, and then moving mics some more. When you find a position you like, write it down or take picture of it. (Ooo, errrr.)

Note that moving a mic just a small amount can make a huge difference in sound. Why? Because the physical wavelengths of the sounds, particularly the high-end of cymbals, is very short. By moving a mic, you're changing where in the wave pattern you're recording the sound. In small rooms with reflective parallel surfaces (ceiling and floor as well as walls), mic movements can make even more difference.

So, basically, just experiment with mic positions. Good mics make a difference, but the most expensive mic in the world can still sound like junk if it's positioned poorly or the room is a nightmare of reflections.

[hotsauce3n]

Hi, i have my acoustic drums over my separate garage which is finished in the above space. It is all hardwood and there is no carpet or anything like this so it is just hardwood. This makes it fairly loud and distorted when trying to record.

Is there anything anyone can recommend(like mic's) or different ways of tuning or any suggestions as to not get so much distortion of the drums?
I was thinking maybe it is the way they are tuned because they sound strange(and distorted) whenever i try to record.

[finnhiggins]

More details please - what are you recording with?

[NUTHA JASON]

it could be a vast number of variables.

your mixer good?
your mics good?
cables?
is your gain too high?
are the mics bleeding into each other? isolation techniques tried?
your power supply consistent? not running a fridge nearby?
your tuning? (refer to the tuning bible)
j

[Freddie Freeloader]

maybe you could use a little less gain on your tracks while recording. also, considering there will be a lot of sound reflecting off surfaces, there's already enough sound in the room. try less mics. if you are looking for a nice TIGHT clean sound, chances are that in a room like that, you won't get it.... but you could try a 3 mic set up..... one on the snare, one on the bass, and another (preferably a large diaphragm condenser) about 4 feet off the ground and 5-6 feet away from the kit, in front of it. if that doesn't work, pull the mic closer and raise it higher in the air, and place it somewhere above the mounted tom.

[hotsauce3n]

no im almost 100% sure its my tuning, anyone know how i can tune good or where the 'tuning bible' is at?

[Stevis]

Well I don't think it's your tuning from what you said, Unless you don't like the sound of your drums live theres no reason they would sound bad recorded, if properly recorded. My suggestion is to tune your drums how you like them, and you can go to a music store and have themn order you a drum tuning book if they don't carry any, but either way you should be able to get one at a store. And as I was saying before tune your drums how you like them, because if you record them that way they will sound that way. And I'm thinking you'll have to play with gain, equalization, and compression. It could be a number of things thats making your drums sound like that. But with equalization, play with between 30Hz and 300Hz frequencies if it is your toms or bass. You may wanna scoop the mids more if your drums are distorted. If its your snare you might wanna try getting rid of the overtones, if the snare is distorted. If it is your cymbals try playing with the settings on the equalizer at around 10000Hz. Or if it is all your drums that are distorted take all this advise.


-To sum it all up, basically I don't think you need to buy a book, tighten and loosen each drum to how you like it, because in the book you may not even like the sound of your drums the way they tell you to tune them.

-Try to get rid of over tones on the drums by using studio rings, moon gel or small amounts of foam or tape.

-After you like them way your drums sound to you live. then record them. And if they still give you problems play with compression, gain, frequency.

-And if that still doesn't work, you may just need better recording gear. SM57's are good intrument mics for snare and toms. Although some people say they make the toms too flat sounding. For them bass I suggest an AKG D 112 kick drum mic. And for overhead condenser mics I suggest The Audio-Technica 853a. If you want something cheaper maybe look at getting a mic pack and there I would recommend a Shure PGDMK6 mic pack.



Good luck, and I hope you found this post helpful.

[finnhiggins]

-And if that still doesn't work, you may just need better recording gear. SM57's are good intrument mics for snare and toms. Although some people say they make the toms too flat sounding. For them bass I suggest an AKG D 112 kick drum mic. And for overhead condenser mics I suggest The Audio-Technica 853a. If you want something cheaper maybe look at getting a mic pack and there I would recommend a Shure PGDMK6 mic pack.


You're missing a piece in the puzzle here Stevis, we don't know what he has now. It could just be that he's not very up on the whole recording thing and he's recording to digital with the levels too high. Clipping can make anything sound bad.

Alternatively, he could be recording with just one microphone which tends to turn the kit to mush anyway. You can make this sound better with some work on mic placement, I tend to like putting mine approximately at my head height when I'm sitting down and positioning it over by the floor tom, pointing through the middle of the snare/high tom/hi-hat triangle.

I do agree with you that with good recording gear and a tuning that sounds good in the room there should be no issues as long as you know what you're doing. But we don't know if he has either, yet, or if he knows what he's doing!

[Stevis]

Good point finnhiggins, I figuered he could use what I have told him plus the knowledge he has already to come up with some solution. And I was thinking he may only have one mic, and maybe even a computer mic that he got at best buy or something. And that for sure would be the problem.

I have found that if recording with one mic it also sounds better either propped or hung about 2 to 3 feet above your drum set on the right side. I dunno why, maybe to the fact of the sound waves directly hitting back in that direction, giving a more clear sound, but it does sound better than placing it on a table or floor. Good points finnhiggins.

[hotsauce3n]

Yes well there is no more distortion i changed the midi around for the tom's cause taht was my main area of distortion, i still think my drums may not be tuned the best(all of my toms at least)

this week im also getting a new recording setup so i wont have to use this crappy old one.

thanks for your help

[Rick Wilkinson]

Are you’re looking for a simple way to Record your drums?

Here’s a simple way I found to Record Drums! (Taken from "The Multitrack Primer" book from Tascam)

As you can see from the picture below an umbrella is hooked-up to a pulley above your drums with most of the center pole cut off. This is to keep the sound from bouncing off the ceiling. But I took it one step further and taped a mic. inside the umbrella on the center pole pointing down (up as high as I could get it). Then experiment a bit with the height of the umbrella and you should get a pretty good all around sound from your set.

Here’s a couple of samples I recorded my drums like that years ago (89-90) on a 4 track recorder. (All instruments are played by me)

Find the Time (http://keysoft4me.com/mysongs/mp3/05%20Find%20The%20Time.mp3)

Make Her my Wife (http://keysoft4me.com/mysongs/mp3/06%20Make%20Her%20My%20Wife.mp3)

Jennifer (http://keysoft4me.com/mysongs/mp3/04%20Jennifer.wma)

More songs on My Songs Page (http://www.stickshield.com/)

[Zackman]

Sounds like a pretty good idea. I'm gonna try that. Drums sounded good in the recordings. The first song reminds me of The Beatles.

[Rick Wilkinson]

Sounds like a pretty good idea. I'm gonna try that. Drums sounded good in the recordings. The first song reminds me of The Beatles.
Thanks for the complements.

By the way I'm quite sure I used a "Cardioid Condenser" mic Let me know how it works for you.

[DogBreath]

I'm thinking Nutha is going to add this to his bottomless bag of tricks.

=-)

I love the great (and practical) advice that keeps popping up here.

[orb]

Hi folks.

I have a couple of questions for experienced drummers.
I am not a drummer, I can play a few basic beats but thats it.
I am building a recording studio and have a place for a drum kit.

I bought this old drum kit off a friend 5 years ago and it has been stored under the stairs and never really used. I think it is a mixture of premier/pearl drums.
Anyway, what I want to know is about cymbals. The cymbals on the kit of crap. Dirty, worn and dull sounding. As this kit is to be used for recording I am after a new set of cymbals (including hi-hats). I guess a ride and a crash and the hats will do for now.
Unfortunately I am on a tight budget. I have been looking on ebay and there seems to be packs of cymbals for sale in my Price range along with second hand individual cymbals.

What I am looking for is a crisp clean sound for recording rather than something designed for heavy gigging use. My budget is no more than £150/$200 - the cheaper the better as I have other things to purchase for the studio.
If anyone can suggest makes/models to consider/avoid I would be very grateful.

My other intention was to replace the skins on the drums. There is a snare, kick, two toms and floor tom. What are a good make of skins? Is there a standard way to work out the size of the skins in need? Should I take the old ones off and measure or what?
And is it necessary to replace the under skins (the skins you don't hit)?

Thanks for any advice and your time helping me.

Regards,

Orb

[Superlow]

For your budget I would recommend Sabian B8 cymbal pack, In my opinion they will do what you need them to. As far as acertaining the sizes for the drums you could use a tape measure, or have a seasoned drummer look at them. The standard configuration you are referring to would probably leed me to believe that you are wokring with a 14" snare 12" and 13" Toms ,and most likely a 16" floor Tom. The kick is probably a 22" and maybe a 20". Good skins for the drums IMO for a Pearl/ Premier kit would be Remo Coated Emperor on the snare and Clear Emperor or Pinstripes on the Toms. A Power Stroke 3 always works well on the Kick drum. I highly recommend checking out the gear section on this forum for a second opinion.

[sly1965]

I agree with superlow, for the resonant heads, if they're not in too bad condition, i'll say keep it for now and concentrate on batter heads as your budget is low, but it will be something to do later.

[RudimentalDrummer]

Hi folks.

I am building a recording studio and have a place for a drum kit. I bought this old drum kit off a friend 5 years ago it is a mixture of premier/pearl drums.

The cymbals on the kit of crap. Dirty, worn and dull sounding. As this kit is to be used for recording I am after a new set of cymbals (including hi-hats). I guess a ride and a crash and the hats will do for now.

Unfortunately I am on a tight budget. I have been looking on ebay and there seems to be packs of cymbals for sale in my Price range along with second hand individual cymbals.

What I am looking for is a crisp clean sound for recording rather than something designed for heavy gigging use. My budget is no more than £150/$200 - the cheaper the better as I have other things to purchase for the studio.
If anyone can suggest makes/models to consider/avoid I would be very grateful.

My other intention was to replace the skins on the drums. There is a snare, kick, two toms and floor tom. What are a good make of skins? Is there a standard way to work out the size of the skins in need? Should I take the old ones off and measure or what?
And is it necessary to replace the under skins (the skins you don't hit)?

Thanks for any advice and your time helping me.

Regards,

Orb

Well what is the Make & Model of your current Cymbal (eg. Zildjian K or A, Sabian AAX or what, Paiste 502 or Signature...whatever) .... You mention that your Cymbals are Dirty, worn and dull sounding .... but you have to tell us more precisely before we can advice you on this. For Cymbals - it doesn't means Brand New are always better....cause we don't want you wasting your $$$$$ if your current ones are better actually. Kindly check and lets us know your current Cymbals Make & Model.

With your tight budget .. you will need to purchase 2nd hand ones, because good sounding 2nd hand Cymbals are usually seldom being offered for sale, even if there is - it's being grap up very quickly (unless you're very lucky) and the price is also not that very cheap.

There are a number of brands that offer crisp clean sound for recording...I found Paiste Signature offer this Crisp & Brightness...and I believe that's what you are looking for. In every Cymbal Manufacturer - Paiste, Zildjian, Sabian - they have different Range of Cymbals ... suited best for certain kind of Music (like you've mentioned - not heavy going Rock Type Cymbals) ... so you don't go for the Paiste 2002 Series, Sabain AAX Series etc...just as an example.

To replace all skin in your Kit (5 piece drum) is not cheap, and don't get used one for these (had to be brand new and you change all at one go). The top skin (where you hit it)is call the batter Head and the bottom cover skin is call the Resonant. Both are equally important and need to be changed, if you want good sounds from your Drum. There are a few well known Brands eg, Aquarian, Remo, Evans... but what type to suit your use in Recording ...I'm really not too good in this, but our other Bros here in DrummerWorld will help you with their valuable advice.

Thanks for visiting us...cheers ! and have a nice day.

[Bernhard]

I am not a drummer....
I am building a recording studio and have a place for a drum kit.

the cheaper the better as I have other things to purchase for the studio.

Not a good point to start with...you're really discriminating drummers!!!!!...The worst what happens to a drummer would be to come in a studio and meet crappy gear.....
Only the best is good enough...sorry, but for recordings NO other way.

Anyway, every drummer will bring his own Cymbals and Snares, so perhabs concentrate more on Microphones, Bass Drum and Toms.

..and ask the first good drummer, who walks in - he can tell you, what to choose. All good labels are good.

Bernhard

[andmoreagain]

As usual, Bernhard knows exactly what he is talking about. You said it.

[orb]

Hi guys and thanks for your advice so far.
The hi hat cymbals are paiste 101. The crash and ride are unmarked.

[RudimentalDrummer]

Bernhard is correct.

I don't know anything alot about Recording studio ...You will have to offer better Instruments,,,unlike just a Jamming Studio - where every group comes in to jam...so crapy stuffs are ok.

Anyway...to be honest you can't get any really good sounding Cymbals Sets for just 200 pound. Maybe just one Cymbal...yes.

Paiste 101 Cymbals are not good enough for Recording Purposes.

[orb]

Yeah, this kit is not intended for clients. I would expect 99% of serious musicians would naturally want to use their own gear. This kit is for my own use really and as a general kit available should it be needed. One of the reasons why I'm having to budget on buying the cymbals is because of other things such as drum microphones.

If any one has any suggestions for drums mics I'd be interested to hear them. I am currently leaning towards AKG C1000's (or similar) for overheads, C418 for the drums and D112 for Kick. I'm keen to get away from dynamic mics. In the past, the only way I could a good result from basic dynamics on toms was to place the mic inside the drum. The results were great but asking a drummer to remove his bottom skins doesn't often go down too well.

[RudimentalDrummer]

Yeah, this kit is not intended for clients. I would expect 99% of serious musicians would naturally want to use their own gear. This kit is for my own use really and as a general kit available should it be needed. One of the reasons why I'm having to budget on buying the cymbals is because of other things such as drum microphones.



Bro ! ... I don't think most Serious Musician (I'm talking about the drummer here) will take all the trouble to make arrangement to bring their entire kit to your Recording Studio....Setting up the kit will probably also take away alot of the time.

Anyway almost all Professional Drummers have been train to play on any kind of given kind of kit (but decent ones) in different Recording Studio cause setup will be different somewhat from their own at home in certain ways....They probably bring their own Cymbals/Snares like what Bernhard had mention earlier on .. sometimes ... but their entire Drum Kit ... seldom !

To setup a Good Recording Studio ... not cheap yeah ! ...and good luck to you.

PS; - It seems that you are literally quite new in this trade ? or am I wrong ???

[orb]

Bro ! ... I don't think most Serious Musician (I'm talking about the drummer here) will take all the trouble to make arrangement to bring their entire kit to your Recording Studio....Setting up the kit will probably also take away alot of the time.

Anyway almost all Professional Drummers have been train to play on any kind of given kind of kit (but decent ones) in different Recording Studio cause setup will be different somewhat from their own at home in certain ways....They probably bring their own Cymbals/Snares like what Bernhard had mention earlier on .. sometimes ... but their entire Drum Kit ... seldom !

To setup a Good Recording Studio ... not cheap yeah ! ...and good luck to you.

PS; - It seems that you are literally quite new in this trade ? or am I wrong ???

Well firstly this is a studio for myself, not a commercial studio. I do expect to have drummers in now and then.
While I understand the inconvenience of the drum kit, that is the nature of the beast and while I don't doubt that all musicians are flexible, when it comes to recording you want to be at you best and using an unfamiliar instrument isn't a professional attitude if you ask me. Taking time to set the kit up is all part of the procedure.
Certainly further down the line I would invest in a pro kit but at this time this is not an option. But as I say, in my experience drummers want to use their own kit.

No, setting up a studio is not cheap. I had a small budget to start with which has been gobbled up on the actual building - roofs and things. However, I will do it :)

I'm certainly new to drum cymbals and skins but I have been a gigging musician for over 10 years, played across many styles and been recording too. There is still plenty to learn but I wouldn't say I was new to the trade.

[tonys protege]

hi, i recently bought a fostex mr8 recording desk off a mate and was wondering how i can get the best sound with only 2 mics? im thinking a bass and over head. i dont have much money so am tihnking sm58 for bass (i can use it for vocal as well, i really have no money!) and then a c1000 as the over head. will i get a good sound? thanks ben

[mediocrefunkybeat]

A C1000 would be fine for your overhead and an SM58 will do as a bass; ideally you'd want a slightly larger diaphragm but it'll do. One bass and one overheard should be fine for the job, you should get a good mono recording. It just can't be stereo unless you use two overheads.

[tonys protege]

sorry i dont know much about this. when you say mono what do you mean? do you mean it will only comeout of one speaker?

[mediocrefunkybeat]

What I mean is that if you're going to use one overhead, you can't really pan left and right because you won't have a left and a right. Instead, your sound will be down the middle of the stereo field. It's not really a big deal unless you're recording for a CD or similar. For your own personal use it will be fine.

[finnhiggins]

You can also pull some tricks to make "fake" stereo imaging so that you don't get that "mono" feel of not being properly in a room with the drums in a real 3D space.

I've had reasonable (not good, but not horribly unlistenable) results with just one SM58 as a room mic. The cymbals don't carry too well, but that's just the nature of not using a proper condenser - the high-end gets a bit harsh.

Things I've done to tidy up:

1) Dump the audio into a proper audio host (in my case, Sonar Producer 4).
2) Split the mono signal across three (or more) buses (create the buses, add sends to each one onto the source track and disable the main output of the track).
3) EQ each bus to isolate each instrument as much as possible - so you have one bus which cuts everything out apart from the majority of the frequencies required for the BD (ignore the beater sound, that tends to sit in with the snare/cymbals too much to isolate cleanly), another for the SD, another for HH/cymbals.
4) Add FX to each bus separately. I find a little bit of very short stereo delay on the BD can do the job of fattening it up a bit, plus a bit of compression on the BD and snare buses - not too much though. A small amount of reverb on the snare and cymbal channels is good too, but more enough to "feel" than hear as you'll already have a lot of room reverberations because of the microphone setup and it'll turn to mush with too much.

It's also very important to work on getting the best possible placement, since you've only got a couple of microphones. Start with just the overhead and try it *everywhere*, preferably with somebody else with good ears and a pair of closed headphones moving it while you play. Failing that, over the right shoulder (pointing between the snare and BD) works well for me but tends to pick up a lot of headphone noise if I'm playing to a click. Something to keep in mind.

I wouldn't bother trying to do any panning with the buses in the approach above, it just makes it sound weird because one side has more high frequencies and the other more mids or whatever. It doesn't sound natural, it feels like the balance is off. But you can get some decent results with very short stereo delays with the two sides of the stereo image set to different delay times.

[Mario Vincent]

Hey, i hope this isnt a repeat thread, (can there be a way to search that by the way...?),
but i was wondering if anyone had any advice for recording. Im gunna be recording in a professional studio for the first time and thought there might be some good tips out there...

Thanks!

-Mario

[Joe Morris]

Make sure your drums sound good. Have almost new heads on them. Have some moon gel handy just in case. I hope you can play to a click because you might have to. Make sure there are no rattles in your drums and your kit is solid. In the studio you will find out if your drums sound good or not. Its like putting them under a microscope compared to a live gig.

Make sure your pedals don't squeak and your drum throne for that matter. Take some candy bars and water with you. Hope these little tid bits help.

Joe
www.joemorris.net (http://www.joemorris.net)

[NUTHA JASON]

good advice. be prepared to be shocked. microphones are unforgiving. its not enough to be we rehearsed in the songs...you must rehearse them with a click as well so that you are not just used to it but find it useful.

if possible take more cymbals and drums than you normally play. have options.

have no illusions that you will be a one take wonder. if it is a pro recording one song can tak weeks of just the drums. it may take a few days just getting the sound right. be strict yourself about this. some engineers will tell you that its sounds 'good enough' and that they can use their computers to make the drums sound better, but any effect they add will add to the latency of the strokes and can cause horrible timing problems THAT ARE NOT YOUR FAULT. better then to have a straight off good sound particularly from your snare. they will add their filters later but the less the better.

also you may have to lay the drums a part at a time...bass and snare, then relay a better hihat track an redo some fills and the intro, relay and layer the cymbals and then abandon the lot because something isn't fitting etc etc... hence the essential click track.

you will ned to be very patient and yet on the ball for all the expensive hours you are there.

have fun and put as much material down as you can so that there are choices later on.

j
Hey, i hope this isnt a repeat thread, (can there be a way to search that by the way...?),


yes in the grey bar above look for the 'search' option.

[Tubedude]

Demo or something major with a big budget? I often record drums for bands, setting up, getting sounds and having 5 songs done and recorded and moving on to the bass guitar in about 5 hours.
If you cant play to a click, learn. Now.
If you are not playing to a click, you will need to leave stick counts in the parts of the songs where there are no drums. The counts can be edited out later. BUT, if you start a count during a cymbal decay, you cant get rid of it unless you cut the decay also, which sounds like s***. The solution? If there is a cymbal decay, assuming you are recording digital... stop playing where the decay is, let everything die down, stop the recording, and back up to about 20 seconds before that part. Now start recording again, and listen to the playback but dont play along with it, just get the feel and time down in your head and you can even start clicking a bar or two before you need to to get in the flow, and finsih the song form there, or go to the next drum stop, whatever.... now, the recording of the clicks is layed out on top of the cymbal decay. You can edit out the clicks later, and the decay is safe and sound and everything will sound natural.
You will need to leave a click of some sort everywhere that there is a drum break, or the overdubs later may become impossible for the guitar players to nail, taking hours and hours extra.
Go in a good mood. Dont be nervous. Be relaxed. Have them dim the lights if they arent already. Spank your ole lady real good before you head to the studio. Dont get frustrated, it will make everything worse. Keep in mind that if a song takes you 8 takes to get it, then you just did a fantastic job. The point is, you got it. If the is a timing screwup, dont just say "F it, thats good enough" because later you will kick yourself for it.
Good luck, have fun, enjoy the process. Its what being a musician is all about.

[Reflux own your mum]

You will need to leave a click of some sort everywhere that there is a drum break, or the overdubs later may become impossible for the guitar players to nail, taking hours and hours extra.


Ha, too right. My first time in a studio we didn't do that, and the guy recording was obviously quite amateur as he didnt mention it either. It was a pain in the ass later, with the guitars.

Also: I have another question, how easy is it to record yourself on the cheap(ie at home)? I've never tried, how much would i have to shell out on mics etc. to get a non-atrocious sound?

[Anduin]

As the drummer in the band, you are the boss. Oh, sure, some other dude might call himself the leader, or everybody may be on the same level. But you're still the boss. (Not that you should go around bragging about it--just know it in your heart.) Nail the groove. Be confident.

Don't let other people's playing mess you up. Don't let the engineer stick mic's in places that cramp your style just because he claims that's the only spot to get the right sound. You must be comfortable, or the recording will suffer.

If you're 8 bars in and you feel bad about it already, stop the take. If you're in the middle of a take and the guitarist (or anybody else) messes up, keep going!! It's easy to overdub a new guitar part; it's a pain in the ass to drop in a new drum section.

When that red "record" light goes on, everybody gets nervous. Expect it. Use your nervous energy to help you focus. Know that you can nail your parts before you get there.

Enjoy! And tell us how it went.

[Tubedude]

Ha, too right. My first time in a studio we didn't do that, and the guy recording was obviously quite amateur as he didnt mention it either. It was a pain in the ass later, with the guitars.

Also: I have another question, how easy is it to record yourself on the cheap(ie at home)? I've never tried, how much would i have to shell out on mics etc. to get a non-atrocious sound?


Its hard. The room comes into play. Crappy rooms produce crappy recordings. The mix engineer comes into play. I get fair drum sounds, but I've had years to work out tricks and techniques and ahve had at least 100 different kits to work with. You learn things as you go along. I get demos all the time from bands saying "we spent $2000 on mics and this and that, and our recordings still suck... why are yours better?" Mine arent great, but they are way better than the cardboard box sounds people bring into me all the time. Its a matter of skill/placement, knowing what to listen for (phase cancellation), mic quality, preamp quality (good ones start at about $800 per channel, but average about $1000 per channel) compressor quality and knowing how to use them makes a difference too. And then, the skills someone has a a mix engineer. Its not easy. Everyone thinks it is. I always thought it would be. But the reason that the people that ARE good at it make $2000+ a day and have worked booked for a eyar out, is because not many people really know whats going on in a complex mix. I'm not claiming to be great no that front either, but then, I only charge my bands $15 an hour, and they get $30 an hour quality (compatively) So that keeps me busy, makes me a little side money (I have a real job too) and I get to enjoy having my hand in other peoples music and getting paid for it.
A sample of something recent, but not finished www.nowhereradio.com/potd/singles this is done in my home studio, which is set up with "control room" in a bedroom, drums are trackd in the living room with a vaulted ceiling, all other amps and stuff are in the 2nd bedroom. Its not bad for $15 an hour, but I have $10,000 worth of gear in my house So, you gotta factor that in too. We retracked the guitars and stuff I think since I put this up, but the drums are what I'm letting you hear mainly. Not great, not terrible, but done in a house with slightly better than average equipment and an ok but not great room. 80% of it is what I know rather than what I have.
Lots of stuff to learn, and its fun, check out homerecording.com/bbs if you are interested in getting into it.

[Tubedude]

Check out the song Blackencide at www.nowhereradio.com/demoking/singles too Different band, I think I may have the drums buried in the mix too much, but this girl is pretty slamming for a young local rock drummer. Same setup, done in my house, but hers was a very nice Sonor kit, whereas the POTD stuff was a crap kit with dead heads and no resonant heads on anything but the snare, and all the cymbals were fried and cracked. See if you can tell a difference between kits and pick out what I did different and the same. Which one you like better?

If you listen to the other song on the above link, it was an Orange County kit with a vented snare. The vents were so big that the snares hardly moved, so I had to sample in a snare behind the main snare to give it a little snap. Enjoy.

[Fear]

Hi guys
My band and me record in a small studio and it aint sounding to good. One of the mains problems is the lack of mikes. Now the most I can have for the drum kit is two mikes and I know that is not alot. But I was wondering if any of you know where the best place would be to put them. Its a five piece drum kit with a high hat,crash and ride. Any help would be most grateful.

Thank you

Dimi aka Fear

[boomboomda]

2 microphones is like you said not a lot, but if that what you have to work with, I would use one for the bass drum, and the other one use a a overhead.

[NUTHA JASON]

it also really depends on what kind of mics you use. my suggestion is that you place one on the bass drum and one underneath your hihat, but facing the snare. then you will have the most important elements of the groove. if you are using a mixer you could then go back and put the two mics as overheads and record toms and cymbals as a separate track. mix the two together and voila.

also try and borrow mics. schools, churches, other bands. have you really explored all the avenues? what about renting? is the recording for a demo? for fun? or for a serious album attempt? i have an old fashioned tape casset dec with an astinishingly powerful mic. if i put it far enough from my kit the reproduction is excellent although the bass lacks a bit of power, the kit mixes itself in that one single mic.
j

[Berberman]

some damn good page about drum mics and pretty much everything that's got to do with recording...

http://www.tweakheadz.com/microphones_for_the_home_studio.htm

[NUTHA JASON]

nice one. i just bought a terratec phase 24 firewire sound card and im going to connect my roland to my computer with it and record my drums onto cubase as tracks for my band. but its quite hard learning how to use all of it. when i am a little better i will post the results up here.

j

[Berberman]

nice one. i just bought a terratec phase 24 firewire sound card and im going to connect my roland to my computer with it and record my drums onto cubase as tracks for my band. but its quite hard learning how to use all of it. when i am a little better i will post the results up here.

j

Cool stuff man, i just got a Presonus Firepod sond interface ( 8 preamped Ins for the mics) and i'll be hooking it up to my powerbook G4 through firewire and onto Cubase as soon as i get a set of mics...I'm still trying to find a good deal on them, the drum mic packs offered at the guitar center look good, but i might save a buck or two getting them seperatly..did you run into that?

By the way, that same website walks you through recording a band from the setup to the mixing. It's also got a pretty helpfull forum for technical question about recording...

Cheers

[NUTHA JASON]

well if you do a bit of research and have in mind a sort of list of proven drum mics and makes, and if, IF you have some time then hunting down separate mics on ebay is the best way to go. for example:

sure beta 57 or sm57. both great snare and tom mics. the beta usually goes for 90 - 100+ pounds and the sm for 75 to 90+ pounds. after hunting for a few months (while using an sm57) i got a bet57 for 75 including delivery! now i''ve got my sm 57 inside a tom.

also, occasionally whole mic kits go up for grabs on ebay. but take care. buy the best or you're just falling for false economy. remember, you need large diaphragm mics to get low end sounds and condensers to get cymbals. as far as i'm concerned AKG and shure middle to top of the range mics are the only way to go. anything else will sound bad and may break down.

j

[Smoky_McPot]

When I put together my new PC I am seriously considering buying a new Creative SB X-Fi Pro - have you guys heard anything about this card? It's retailing in Australia for about $950 - The card has a signal to noise ratio of 110dB. How does that compare spec and price wise with your card Nutha?

[finnhiggins]

Creative are SATAN when it comes to audio recording. If you want to cause screams of horror, go to any pro-audio forum and say "Should I buy a Creative sound card?".

Good for gamers.

Terrible for musicians.

For a cheap-but-good brand for audio recording, go M-Audio. The Delta 1010 is a great piece of work for the price.

[NUTHA JASON]

Creative are SATAN when it comes to audio recording. If you want to cause screams of horror, go to any pro-audio forum and say "Should I buy a Creative sound card?".

Good for gamers.

Terrible for musicians.

For a cheap-but-good brand for audio recording, go M-Audio. The Delta 1010 is a great piece of work for the price. i heard the same things from several different sources.
m audio or terratec for preference. AND it must be firewire. firewire is more expensive but the latency is near to zero. latency for those who don't know is how long a signal takes to go from the mic though the sound card through the cable through the computer and back to your headphones. any latency will drive your timing through the wall. your drums will sound 0.2 seconds behind themselves and in the world of drumming this is a vast amount of time. my card's latency is 0.05. hardly noticeable. be warned...you will hate USB soundcards.

j

[mediocrefunkybeat]

It's true, USB cards have huge levels of latency on them. Definately go with FireWire, which is actually the older technology.

[finnhiggins]

i heard the same things from several different sources.
m audio or terratec for preference. AND it must be firewire.


Or PCI, natch. But certainly avoid USB, you're right.

[Berberman]

well if you do a bit of research and have in mind a sort of list of proven drum mics and makes, and if, IF you have some time then hunting down separate mics on ebay is the best way to go. for example:

sure beta 57 or sm57. both great snare and tom mics. the beta usually goes for 90 - 100+ pounds and the sm for 75 to 90+ pounds. after hunting for a few months (while using an sm57) i got a bet57 for 75 including delivery! now i''ve got my sm 57 inside a tom.

also, occasionally whole mic kits go up for grabs on ebay. but take care. buy the best or you're just falling for false economy. remember, you need large diaphragm mics to get low end sounds and condensers to get cymbals. as far as i'm concerned AKG and shure middle to top of the range mics are the only way to go. anything else will sound bad and may break down.

j


True that!

In my case i think i'll go with the cheaper Audix fusion mic set. They get fairly good reviews and besides, i can get the best mikes out there and they won't necessarily sound good since my newly built rehearsal space/home studio in my backyard is not isolated sound wise...i still get a lot of echo...I ain't going for a pro sound anyway, i just have fun recording what i do with other musicians...
AKG and shure middle to top of the range mics are the way to go though as you say.

Do you use a mixer?

[TitanSound]

Hello all.

I would like some tips/hints on getting a good quality recording using a limited amount of equipment.

We use a Fostex VF-08 digital multitrack to record everything. At the rehearsal studio we use they also let us use proper AKG snare and kick mics. For the toms and overheads we are reduced to using SM-58's. Not ideal I know but better than nothing!

Would any of you be able to supply tips on how to mic the kit using this equipment? Would we be better of micing each drum and having 2 overheads or going for a more rounded sound and using 3 mics in a triangle pattern around the kit along with the kick and snare mics?

We cannot really experiment as we get a 4 hour session and would like to get 4 drum tracks recorded. We are very well rehearsed so its acheivable!

Thanks people!

[finnhiggins]

Hello all.

I would like some tips/hints on getting a good quality recording using a limited amount of equipment.

We use a Fostex VF-08 digital multitrack to record everything. At the rehearsal studio we use they also let us use proper AKG snare and kick mics. For the toms and overheads we are reduced to using SM-58's. Not ideal I know but better than nothing!

Would any of you be able to supply tips on how to mic the kit using this equipment? Would we be better of micing each drum and having 2 overheads or going for a more rounded sound and using 3 mics in a triangle pattern around the kit along with the kick and snare mics?

We cannot really experiment as we get a 4 hour session and would like to get 4 drum tracks recorded. We are very well rehearsed so its acheivable!

Thanks people!

Quite simply, and I know you don't want to hear this, you're not going to get a good drum sound with SM58s overhead. They don't pick up the shimmering high-end of the cymbals, so it all sounds dull and bangy. And if you boost the highs with EQ it's very grainy and distorted. You need some good condensers up there, or you're not going to get a recording that's worth the effort you're going to have to put in on this.

The standard drum miking arrangement would be two (nice) condenser overheads, a proper (AKG-D112 or similar) kick drum microphone, SM57s top and bottom on the snare and 57s or specifically designed tom mikes all the way around the toms. Sometimes plus a condenser on the hi-hat, but I never need one.

You don't need three overheads, because it's more likely to cause phasing issues than anything else. Unless your kit is huge, of course.

[TitanSound]

Yeah I know what you mean about the SM58's. This is the problem though...they are the only mics we can use. I will be investing in some proper drum mics but will not be able to afford them until at least march next year (damn supercomputer I built took my savings away!!)

So its more of a "I know its going to sound a bit crappy but how can I make it sound less crappy" if you know what I mean?

Also the 3 mic idea was not for over heads but rather medium height around the kit to pick up everything but still have the AKG's on the snare and bass drum.

Its only for a demo we can play to people and send out to places to get gigs, if we ever wanted to produce a decent effort then I would spend money on a proper studio to record the drums.

Needs must at this time unfortunatly :(

[T-rex]

For a demo like you are talking about this is doable. Mike the bass drum and snare as you normally would then use the 58 as a mono overhead. If the ceilings are low, then instead of going directly over the drums try the mic out in front of the kit or behind you and angled down pointing at the snare. If the ceilings are low and untreated you get reflections from the drums back into the overhead and it muddies the sound due to phase cancellation. If you can rent a decent or cheap condensor mic that will get you a much better image than the 58, but you gotta work with what ya got. Here is a link to a different three mic recording technique:

http://www.mercenary.com/3micdrumstuf.html

You could also look up the Glyyn Johns technique which Fletcher talks about in the above post. Basically the two most important things are to place the mics correctly and check for phase issues. Moving a mic a half inch can greatly improve the sound of a drum so spend a little time moving the mic and recording until it sounds best. Secondly, listen for phase issuses, if the snare mic and bass drum mic sound great together but when you add the overhead they suddenly seem thin, then you have a phase issue and you will need to move the overhead until it helps thicken the mix when added and not the other way around.

Good luck!

[Berberman]

take a look at this link, there is a good bit on drums

http://www.tweakheadz.com/microphones_for_the_home_studio.htm

[TitanSound]

Thanks for the tips guys,

I actually done some recording on Saturday. It came out pretty well considering the mics we were using (but alas, not as good as they could be with decent overheads/tom mics) I shall post up the results soon!

[Zirar]

Hey guys -

I've been having some trouble recording lately. I only have 4 mics (snare, kick, 2 overheads) and I'm having trouble getting a good mix. The problem is that my cymbals are very loud, but my toms are quite soft. I've tried playing around with the mic position, and EQ, but just can't seem to get it right. Eventually, I'll buy some sm57's for the toms, but at this point I just don't have the money. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can get the toms to pop out a little more and take the cymbals down a notch?

Thanks!

~Z

[Jookbox]

you're going to think i'm a jerk, but you have to learn to gracefully hit your cymbals and hit your toms very hard. this was actually something i've worked on for a while now and i don't even have loud cymbals (a customs). i started thinking about dynamics and i realized i had to hit different parts of my drumkit with different amounts of force to get the sound i want. with that said, it always amazes me that z customs and similar cymbals sell so well to people who aren't playing the rose bowl.

[tylergill]

hey guys
i want to buy some drum recordng equipment but dont now where to start
can i get some suggestions on what mikes to buy and what u use to record your drums and how much it costs and how good they are i also dont know what program u use to record drums through ur computer

[aspenleaf]

A very good, basic article can be found here:

http://www.kimcheerecords.com/articles/drums/

Also, there are some forums that cover this topic. Two of the best are:

http://www.prorec.com/

http://p205.ezboard.com/fbillywardfrm20

[RMS]

Try placing the overheads above you in an X/Y configuration, so they make a "V" with the tips almost touching, one mic pointing left and the other right. This provides a decent stereo image while preventing phase problems resulting from mic placement. Aim them more towards the drums than the cymbals, because the cymbals will be picked up anyways. Start with the EQ at center or zero, and if it's at least a 3-band then maybe boost everything just a bit.
Use the snare mic as a way to color your snare sound to your liking. The majority of it will be picked up by the overheads, so EQ this mic how you want and put it up in the mix just enough to make a difference.
I use this setup to record myself for reference purposes and I find it to be simple but a good representation of how your drums sound in the room they're in. The room will contribute a lot to how your drums sound on tape.

[Stu_Strib]

Jookbox, you aren't being a jerk. This is a basic tennet of recording. It requires you to alter your playing style a bit. Depending on recording gear/ssituation/producer, etc. etc.

Most drummers place their cymbals higher up and away from toms than in normal playing situation... But that would require you to have tom mics, which you don't seem to have...

Have you tried really high cymbals and mics under the cymbals pointing at the toms? Just an idea that worked for me once, although it was really hard to play that way

[RMS]

Also, if you have the money, replace the top and bottom heads on your toms. Tune both heads to the same pitch and to the resonant pitch of the shell. And play them wide open with no muffling. A LITTLE bit o' tape or something on the snare is probably good, if it rings too much. If you have well-tuned, non-muffled, clear single ply heads on your toms, they should really boom. Of course, you may not like this sound but it's just a way to make your toms louder. And listen to what Jookbox and Stu said about hitting your cymbals, although it would be more desirable to play smaller, thinner cymbals for recording rather than playing your standard cymbals more sofltly, because the thinner cymbals (like zildjian fast crashes) will fully express their character without having to be hit as hard as heavier cymbals. Unfortunatly, they also cost money (darn it) and they're more prone to cracking. SM57's will definitely last longer than drum heads or thin cymbals, but I think that the latter two will make a bigger impact on your sound. And once again don't forget the room you're in; this makes just as much, if not more, difference as microphones do. Try some light foam or something on the walls around the drums to absorb the highest freq's (your cymbals) and placing your drumset on a hard surface will make your drums more lively and loud (don't ever record with your drums on carpet or a rug if you can help it).

[ajx²]

sorry for bringing back this old thread but im new and i was just wondering if anyone here can tell me what i need to record drums onto my computer... i dont need anything crazy i just need basic gear... i know i need a mic for everything plus maybe to over head mics, but i dont know what mics i should look into getting.... and i need to know what i need to record the drums into my computer i run nuendo mostly but i do have acid pro and cool edit but i like nuendo a lot more... i wanna be able to record everything i mic on sepreate tracks on my computer, but i dunno what i need to plug them into my computer to make it sound decent.... sorry for soo many questions just wanna have a decent souding recording when ever i want... thanx for your time.... please help

[mapexmaster911]

my band has always had trouble getting the sound we want out of my drums. we record ourr own songs but there not profeesional quality. if the drums sounded better it would add alot to our recordings. i just purchased a 4 peice SHURE mic set. does anybody have any suggestions on how to record the drums better? you can listen to our music at our band site below. thanks

[Nogoodnature]

Go buy a mac g4 laptop and use the application "GarageBand" I am using this for our new album and it sounds pro. (you need a mixer as well)

[mapexmaster911]

lol its not our recording program its the quality of the mics. we use cubase.

[Togg]

It's all about mic placement, i suggest you spend a day moving the mics around the kit and see what you get, different rooms react in different ways.

The best sound I have had is close mic on the snare bass and hihat, then mics approx a foot above the toms, say two or three mics, then one or two overhead and finally some in the corners of the room.

Sounds a lot but when mixed I got a great sound. For a good sound with few mics, try one either side of your head at ear level, then close on the snare and bass.

[mapexmaster911]

i bought that SHURE 4 piecs and it is awsome so ill soon have new recordings with my band with new and better drums in it. jeez they make them sound good. i just have been playing them out of our PA but i cant wait to experiement with the recording program.

[Superlow]

Recording drums has many important factors. However two important factors are mic placement and room sound. I like recording in wide open woody rooms. It makes small drums sound enormous. On a side note... a good way to get a cheap recording is befriending some aduio engineering students. They pay the schools money to use the facilties. You can get kick ass recordings for nothing.

[houtwndrummer]

I have a drum studio set up, and have purchased mics ( AKG D112 bass mic, DR-GX1 Dynamic mic for the snare, and two MXL condensor mics for overhead and cables)

I need to know what equipment i need to buy to set this up and record my drumming. I need sort of a step by step instruction as i have never done this. I plan to add my drumming to song tracs without drums. I dont have any amps or mixers or P.A's ...so what else do i need to buy. And how do you set it up.?

[Anduin]

Welcome to the wonderful world (and money pit) of recording!

Basically, for your 4 mic's, you'll need a sound card with at least 4 inputs. Each mic needs a preamp. And cables. And monitors (speakers). And recording software.

There's lots of great info out there on the web.

I found this site helpful; haven't looked at the details there in a while but it helped me back in the day: http://www.pc-music.com/

There's this one, too, but it's much more commercial and somewhat confusingly organized: http://www.tweakheadz.com/

Enjoy!

[RMS]

For someone who doesn't know anything about mixers, you sure have the right mics. There's no reason you shouldn't get a nice sound if you do a little studying about mixers, and record in a good room. Do a search about amps, mixers, P.A., etc.

[Stu_Strib]

I found this site helpful; haven't looked at the details there in a while but it helped me back in the day: http://www.pc-music.com/

There's this one, too, but it's much more commercial and somewhat confusingly organized: http://www.tweakheadz.com/

Enjoy!

Does anyone have a Mac-centric site like these? I'm looking into that Onyx mixer with the firewire interface, and just using free garage band for now (until I learn the basics).

[carllb]

First go get Jeff Ocheltree's DVD titled TRUST YOUR EARS.

As for miking the kit for recording I use the Audix ADX-90 Clip-on Condenser Mic for close miking of the toms to get that attack along with some roundness. I use an SM57 for the snare and a D112 or Audix D-6 for the kik, I prefer the latter unless you can get the D112 right up to a few inches from the bater head inside the kik. I use a stereo pair of Shure KSM109. Now, you can save yourself some money by deleting the ADX-90's as the KSM109's have a great freq response (20-20) and get them as clost to the drums as you can without whacking them. For live I use 4 mikes - the Shure overheads, Audix D2 for the snare and the Audix D-6 for the kick and that is mounted on a Rock Bag kik drum pillow inside the drum 3" from the batter head. (This is a cool solution for live where you mic the kit as the Rock Bag has an integrated mic stand that allows you to slide the mic around into various positions. I just leave the mic mounted on the pad for transportation so it's always there http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/444059/).

Also, another issue is how hard you play... If you're a soft player then the drums simply won't resonate and give you the volume and sound/tone required to get a good sound. If you're recording to tape versus a DAW system like Pro Tools then you have a whole lot of other issues to contend with that introduce noise into the fold. Starting out with 3db+ of tape noise along with whatever wired connections you use to get from the mic to the tape machine will introduce even more noise and color your sound. The great thing about DAW's (Digital Audio Workstations) is that you get the sound direct to disk exactly as the instrument sounds live. *TIP: When miking an instrument put the mic where your ear hears the sound you want to record. USE YOUR EARS as there's no magical solution. Also, garbage in = garbage out. If the instrument sounds bad acoustically, that's what the recording will sound like. Start off with good sounding instruments and you'll have a lot of the recording battle conquered. With drums tuning is always the culprit for the most part. If you start off by tuning the batter and reso heads to the same pitch then you'll alleviate those overtones. Also if you use a single ply head you'll get more volume and overall better tone from the drums at a distance - a good all round solution to have between live and studio recording. Again, drum heads is a personal preference and the head game can really get one frustrated if you don't understand the differences between the various heads.

I posted a few mp3 file soundbites from a recorded rehearsal / audition last week so you can hear how the recording setup described above sounds. Keep in mind this is NOT a final mix but a simple bounce to disk from Pro Tools of the actual recording - no futsing about...

You can hear some soundbites using the recording setup above by visiting the link below. Also, the room is very LIVE and big.
http://jamdawgs.com/carl/experience.html

[RMS]

I learned a lot from the book:

The Drummer's Studio Survival Guide
by Mark Huntley Parsons.

It's probably not at the library, but it's not expensive to buy and the information it contains is very relevent to any recording project.

[Stu_Strib]

Make sure your drums sound good. .... In the studio you will find out if your drums sound good or not. Its like putting them under a microscope compared to a live gig.




Crap in, crap out, as the old saying goes.

[Bernhard]

Hey Carllb: you got a DREAM-Sound here out of your Snare.....

Love it...

(I mean the Soundsample MP3 attachment in your post)

Bernhard

[carllb]

Thanks Bernard. DW's 5 x 13" Aluminum snare with a good hard rim shot makes me (and others very happy) - especially the recording engineer! Dare I use any other snare drum Bernhard.

Cheers
--
Carl
425.864.1156

[MD2990]

I have been recording with my band for about two years now, I always try and capture the best drum sound that i can and i think i have come a long way. At our studio we have a small sound proof recording room and a large rehersal room, however the rehersal room is not sound proofed very well, just enough to help feeback and that sort of thing. Lately the guitarist in my band said that it is better to record the drums in a larger room, but i find that the acoustics of our small sound proofed room is much better. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best type of room to record drums, and any ideas or tricks on how to capture a great sound?

u can check my band out at www.myspace.com/paradigmband

[aahznightsky]

other than a killer drum room, any wierd shaped room should do something cool for the sound. The room i usually record my drums in has all these wierdly angles walls and ceilings, square rooms just reflect vibrations poorly.

Also when you get such a room, make sure to place a room mic or three in cool places away from the set, always gives a killer sound to mix in.

[Ronnie]

I believe it all depends on the sound you are trying to get. I have recorded in many different types of settings, and each setting has it's own characteristics. One of the best things I've done over the years to improve my sound is investing in good microphones. My crapy old percussion plus set sounds great though a good set of microphones. I have read somewhere that Bonham recorded in castles, with one or two mic's, and got that great sound, but if you don't own a castle, use you imagination, it goes a long way when recording. Good luck finding that sound your looking for!

[OLe]

Here are some of my experiences about recording:
-Make your drumset sound as good as possible - tune the drums properly and spend some hours on achieving the best possible sound in the set. Make it sound the way you want it to sound within the limits of you setup.
- Find a good room. Test out the acoustics of the room. A room without square angles will probably give the best results, but they tend to be hard to find :-). A room with proper damping will yield the best results unless you are seeking special effects for the sound.
-A larger room with ambience miking will give a more transparent sound. A smaller room will give a tighter more controlled sound.
- Use the best microphones available to you. Each mic have it´s own characteristics. Experiment, research and test to find out which mic is most suitable for what. If you are lucky enough to have access to an experienced technician he or she will be able to give you some hints.
- Use both close-up mics for each drums and ambience micing for the whole set. This will of course depend on the amount of microphones and tracks you have available. If you have to prioritise, I would use two close mics; one for the bD and one for the snare. Along with two overheads and two ambience mics this should give you a balanced recording of your set up and the possibility to give more punch to the snare and BD. If you have more mics and tracks available you add close-mics after importance; hi-hat, toms, BD-front head, snare strainer etc. etc.

I have recorded with a set up of three ambience mics placed in a triangel pointing towards the set-up in front, two overheads and close mics on BD and snare. If you add a sub-kick mic to the front of the bass drum the set sounds a killer! And you can drastically alter the sound of the recordings by prioritising different mics in the mix.

Good luck!

PS: If I find time I can post a proper description of the recording set-up and mics and post some sound files.

[andrew_carter]

One thing I remember hearing somewhere was the for some instruments, drums included but especially things like bass guitar, the distance from a wall makes a big difference. Something to do with matching the length of the soundwaves with the right distances.

Obviously I don't know what I'm talking about, this is just something I heard. Does anyone here know more about the subject? Care to explain in more (and more correct) detail?

We (http://www.dancingaboutarchitecture.com.au) recorded here (http://www.whiteroomstudio.com/). It's hard to make out, but the ceiling was done in a wave about 1.5m (maybe?) in length, it was really interesting. And we recorded it live, but partitioned the room with the black things you see on his website. Apparently he occasionally uses the curtains too, but I'm not sure for what purpose. And here's my baby all mic-ed up - http://www.dancingaboutarchitecture.com.au/fullImage.aspx?galleryID=19 . :)

Andrew

[harryconway]

Get a kick drum mic. Carvin makes an affordable one. Play with placement. a foot or two in front of the kick drum is a good place to start. you can get one mic to do double duty on snare and hi-hat. and two overhead mics. i've recorded my kit with 4 mics and 9 mics and it sounded better with 4. Someone mentioned castles and Bonham. "When the Levee Breaks" was recorded in a big room with 2 mics. That famous drum riff, one of the most sampled riffs in history.

[Togg]

Here are some of my experiences about recording:
-Make your drumset sound as good as possible - tune the drums properly and spend some hours on achieving the best possible sound in the set. Make it sound the way you want it to sound within the limits of you setup.
- Find a good room. Test out the acoustics of the room. A room without square angles will probably give the best results, but they tend to be hard to find :-). A room with proper damping will yield the best results unless you are seeking special effects for the sound.
-A larger room with ambience miking will give a more transparent sound. A smaller room will give a tighter more controlled sound.
- Use the best microphones available to you. Each mic have it´s own characteristics. Experiment, research and test to find out which mic is most suitable for what. If you are lucky enough to have access to an experienced technician he or she will be able to give you some hints.
- Use both close-up mics for each drums and ambience micing for the whole set. This will of course depend on the amount of microphones and tracks you have available. If you have to prioritise, I would use two close mics; one for the bD and one for the snare. Along with two overheads and two ambience mics this should give you a balanced recording of your set up and the possibility to give more punch to the snare and BD. If you have more mics and tracks available you add close-mics after importance; hi-hat, toms, BD-front head, snare strainer etc. etc.

I have recorded with a set up of three ambience mics placed in a triangel pointing towards the set-up in front, two overheads and close mics on BD and snare. If you add a sub-kick mic to the front of the bass drum the set sounds a killer! And you can drastically alter the sound of the recordings by prioritising different mics in the mix.

Good luck!

PS: If I find time I can post a proper description of the recording set-up and mics and post some sound files.


That said it all, I can add no more really I agree with it all

Personally I have found the larger rooms more suitable for my sound, but as said above, tuning is the most important factor, you really can't alter the sound much in the mix, despite what people think, if youwant a certain sound you MUST get it pretty close before you put in on tape.

[TitanSound]

I cant remember where I saw this tip but it worked for me a couple of times.

Before you set your kit up, walk around the room you are recording in with a tom and play it. Once you find the "sweet spot" where it sounds best, set your kit up in that general area.

I dont know if it works 100% of the time but a handy tip too have.

[Frankie]

Hey guys i'm going into the studio really soon and i just realised i don't know anything about how to record drums well.

What mics should i use, where do i put them, how hard do i need to play, would playing a snare drum in a toilet make a difference as opposed to just playing it in a rehearsal room, how should i try tune my drums...

my band and i are going to do it 'live' (whatever that means) and i'm really hoping for a huge thumping drum sound that takes people's heads off.

Any help, tips, suggestions, ideas, thoughts would be very very much appreciated

love frankie

[squashki]

If you are going to a studio the engineer should help you get a good drum sound with mic placement etc.

[Rohan]

The search button my dear Frankie, will soon become your new best friend.

[Togg]

The engineer will sort out mics and placement, but you are going to need to decide what type of sound suits the songs. Be aware you will probably NOT get what you are looking for unless you have a wonderful engineer.

Generally he/she will try to make their job as easy as possible and they often overlook the drums and go for a rather generic sound.

Tune your kit the way you like it, get the engineer to sit behind it and play, tell him that's the sound you want, if it's with both heads on the bass, don't let him take one off because it's quicker.

Tuning is everything, you might think so but you can't fix as much as you'd think in the mix, if youdon't hear it, it aint there.

There are dozens of threads here about recording, read a few but don't worry too much, you will get what you get on the first time out, if you are doing it 'live' you will possibly get a less controlled sound but it might well fit the songs, good luck and don't get too bogged down with studio issues

My best advice would be to relax and make sure the playing is great, if that's right no matte what sound you get it will at least be a good recording of you playing, the best sound will do little to improve poor playing!!!!

[syaoran05]

Hey guys i'm going into the studio really soon and i just realised i don't know anything about how to record drums well.

What mics should i use, where do i put them, how hard do i need to play, would playing a snare drum in a toilet make a difference as opposed to just playing it in a rehearsal room, how should i try tune my drums...

my band and i are going to do it 'live' (whatever that means) and i'm really hoping for a huge thumping drum sound that takes people's heads off.

Any help, tips, suggestions, ideas, thoughts would be very very much appreciated

love frankie

live? does that mean the band's recording everything altogether?

anyway.. dont bang the ride and stuff like that... play it like youre playing jazz.. you dont want to waste your time on more takes coz you overfed the mics. that's why the mics are there in the first place, so play like someone's right in front of you listening to you drum. you dont wanna make that guy's ears bleed.

playing a snare in the toilet and in a rehearsal room is different.

tune your drums the way you want it note-wise and sound wise [doppler or clean; in minor thirds etc etc] and make sure it sings unless you want them dead. remember. its either it sings or its dead. if its dead leave it like that, its just the mics now. if it sings dont try to get rid of the overtones, the sound guy will do that for you. you said you want a huge thumping drum sound... so make your toms sing. the bass thing is pretty much the sound guys work, its gonna be a mixing duty to get that thumping sound. the only thing you'd want to get rid of is excessive snare buzz. some small buzz is ok, but big problematic ones you need to get right. nevermind the ring and excessive overtones of the snamre too. that's the sound guy's work.

i know nothing about mic placement.

make sure youre not in the same place as the bassist or the bassist's amp. that's ideal. but if not make sure youre as far from the bass amp as you can go. it causes snare buzz and phasing. phasing is your worst enemy.

and the search button is your best friend

[samthebeat]

Like these guys said the engineer will do that all for you.

But be aware if Gating, some un simpethetic engineers have a bad habbit of over gating where it is inappropiate. I.E if you play loads of ghost notes on the snare and it gets gated, the ghost notes more often get lost, they just wont be there, cause what a gate does is shut the signal down below a certain a threshold. So ask to listen to drums solo'd if you sense that happening, and ask for the gate to be romoved. This only goes for snare dymanmics though.

heres a link to good article if your interested in hpw drums can be recorded. MIked etc.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb03/articles/drummiking.asp?session=43bd08c9b3a387969045286fdd2 be627

[Chip]

The search button my dear Frankie
Was that in like a daffy duck accent? I swear he says those exact words. Hilarious, I still love that show, some ofit is a lot deeper and more high brow than one would think. I still have the tape from 10 or so years ago.

[syaoran05]

Like these guys said the engineer will do that all for you.

But be aware if Gating, some un simpethetic engineers have a bad habbit of over gating where it is inappropiate. I.E if you play loads of ghost notes on the snare and it gets gated, the ghost notes more often get lost, they just wont be there, cause what a gate does is shut the signal down below a certain a threshold. So ask to listen to drums solo'd if you sense that happening, and ask for the gate to be romoved. This only goes for snare dymanmics though.

heres a link to good article if your interested in hpw drums can be recorded. MIked etc.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb03/articles/drummiking.asp?session=43bd08c9b3a387969045286fdd2 be627


yeah i agree... you did mention that you wanted thumping drums... make sure he doesnt do a gate and filter overkill that he cuts off all the high frequencies on your toms and bass. that attack is very necessary for that thumpy tom and bass sound.

[JoeyMoon]

live? does that mean the band's recording everything altogether?

anyway.. dont bang the ride and stuff like that... play it like youre playing jazz.. you dont want to waste your time on more takes coz you overfed the mics. that's why the mics are there in the first place, so play like someone's right in front of you listening to you drum. you dont wanna make that guy's ears bleed.


any technician worth his salt will position the mics to suit a drummer. A decent techie will listen to the way the drummer plays in order to chose the correct mics and put them in the right place. If your in good hands you shouldn't have to change the way you play at all from live to studio. If you did it would alter your sound on the record.

Are we sure Frankie has a technician? He seemed a bit like he was asking for tips as he was clueless... If there is a technician I suppose the best advice would be, go in with a good idea of what you want (which he seems to have) and be able to articulate it to your techie...

If there is no tech, sound on sound website is an invaluable resource, (Good call samthebeat)

I might not be that great a drummer but i know a bit about recording (for a bad drummer)

Joe

[Otto]

There is no inexpensive short cut.

Pick up some recording equipment and experiment or buy a good engineers time.

Experiment alot.

Read alot.

Talk to guys you know who get great sounds from their recording efforts...regardless of what the instrument is.

Hope you get lucky and pull a good engineer on your first attempt...but dont get discouraged if you dont!

[Frankie]

hey guys just wanted to say thanks for the replies. I'm going on search marathon now.

we're paying this guy hourly to help us out. Is that a technician? I don't have a drum tech but i think this guy is like a band producer or something so i guess he knows at least something about drums.

by the way i'm a girl. someone said he seems a bit clueless...' Correct! but its a she who is clueless.

just one more question if i may. What skins should i use on my bass drum to get a really heavy techno dance thump. anyone know a song by the chemical brothers called hey boy hey girl? the part where it kicks into the beat always blows my head off and thats what i'm trying to replicate.

thanx once again

love frankie

[Otto]

Most of what you are hearing on that song is due to post recording sound envelope manipulation. Within a little variation, most drum heads will record much the same sound when when tuned the same...unless you are looking at double ply oil filled...or some exotic material..and to some ears, coated base drum heads are very unique.

Go to a drum shop and put the salesman through his paces...bring your bass drum and pedal..possible your favorite crash to see how they sound together.. and ask the salesman for someplace you can try em out...if the salesman wont do it, take your business elsewhere.

Experiment with various muffeling techniques. I like to tape up a towel up so it is basicly a log..then tape it to the inside of the bass drum shell so it just touches the front head...like what is described by Dave Weckel.

Experiment...alot.

[syaoran05]

any technician worth his salt will position the mics to suit a drummer. A decent techie will listen to the way the drummer plays in order to chose the correct mics and put them in the right place. If your in good hands you shouldn't have to change the way you play at all from live to studio. If you did it would alter your sound on the record.

Are we sure Frankie has a technician? He seemed a bit like he was asking for tips as he was clueless... If there is a technician I suppose the best advice would be, go in with a good idea of what you want (which he seems to have) and be able to articulate it to your techie...

If there is no tech, sound on sound website is an invaluable resource, (Good call samthebeat)

I might not be that great a drummer but i know a bit about recording (for a bad drummer)

Joe

read only if you play hard:

well yeah a good tech must be able to suit the mics and everything with the playing style of the drummer. but then again dont give the tech a hard time. if you play hard, the tech must be able to accomodate, but then youre recording.. besides you want the records to sound clean, and clean isnt always the case when you play hard. you would be leaking sound in the mics [if at all]. again, the mics can be set up, but your sounds will distort [if you play hard] and no kind of gate will cure that. else the gates will make the sound so robotic and flat.

[JoeyMoon]

hey guys just wanted to say thanks for the replies. I'm going on search marathon now.

we're paying this guy hourly to help us out. Is that a technician? I don't have a drum tech but i think this guy is like a band producer or something so i guess he knows at least something about drums.

by the way i'm a girl. someone said he seems a bit clueless...' Correct! but its a she who is clueless.

just one more question if i may. What skins should i use on my bass drum to get a really heavy techno dance thump. anyone know a song by the chemical brothers called hey boy hey girl? the part where it kicks into the beat always blows my head off and thats what i'm trying to replicate.

thanx once again

love frankie

Hi Frankie,
Sorry about the gender confusion. my bad. Also, didn't mean to have a dig when i said clueless, perhaps a poor choice of words.

If you want a really nice thick low end kick sound the first thing that you should do is make your kick drum sound a close to the sound you want as you can and when it comes to recording you want to use a large diaphragm mic with a decent response at the bass frequencies, the guy you are paying to help you out will most likely have a favourite for this.

As has been mentioned, most of the chemical brothers sound will have been attained through production effects, eq, reverb and sharpening up the attack. However, you can't pollish a turd, so make sure the sound tech isn't trying to turn a piss weak kick into a thumping sound.

Hope this is helpful

Joe

[ajgdrums722]

Got a BOSS BR-1600 Digital Recording System for Christmas, complete with a 7-mic set. It's awesome. I just played around with the placement until I got something that sounded good to me. Working the reverb and compressor can be difficult, but you're doing it in studio, so you should recieve help with that.

[Magic Maple]

Hey all, Not sure where to post this =p

Can anyone recommend me some software that i can use to multi track, ive always previously overlapped my recording and the quality is really bad, as i overlap more it gets worse.

Cheers All

[finnhiggins]

Hey all, Not sure where to post this =p

Can anyone recommend me some software that i can use to multi track, ive always previously overlapped my recording and the quality is really bad, as i overlap more it gets worse.

Cheers All

Cakewalk Sonar, but it's not cheap. You'll also find as you start working that you're going to encounter issues with latency when recording if your soundcard isn't decent, it's worth grabbing an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 or similar just so you have a decent low-latency card in the system.

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

I second Sonar. It's my favorite multitrack program, and I've been using Cakewalk software for about ten years now. You don't need the newest badest version though. You could probably score an old version for cheap. There are also free multitrack programs out there (http://www.google.com/search?hs=RzY&hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=multitrack+audio+freeware&btnG=Search).

[syaoran05]

im ok with my adobe audition.. its good enough for me... :P

[Frankie]

hey joey moon no offense was taken. thanks for your help

love frankie

[mase11th]

If you can afford it and/or find it, my favorite program is Cubase. If you've done any 'real world' engineering or recording, you'll quickly see how great this program is. If you are not technically savy, try cakewalk or acid pro.

[davidst]

I'm recording a drum set with just two mics. One in front the bass drum and one in the air on top the set. All the levels and sounds are surprisingly good except the snare is way too loud. I tried one snare muter from a store but it's way too quiet.

Does anyone know of a tgood snare muter that doesn't mute it too much, and doesn't completely kill the sound. As long as I can still get a good solid "pop" out of the snare at a lower (but not too low) volume it should be much better for the recording.

[Rohan]

Put a tea-towel or a piece of cloth, even just a shirt over the top of the drum. I've done this and you still get th sound of th snares and stuff, the problem is it completely kills the tone of your drum.

[cdrums21]

You may want to reposition the mic above the kit so it points away from the snare a little more. Dampening the snare will reduce volume, unfortunately it also alters the sound and may change it to a sound you don't like. I would try the repositioning first and then try a minimal amount of dampening along with he repositioned mic until you find a happy medium.

[~tamadrummer~]

Did you try some moongel? Tape maybe?

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

I also second trying different mic placement, or maybe even adjusting the placement of the pieces of your kit slightly. Right now I keep my hats and main ride at the same level from the floor, and barely higher than the snare and floor tom. I've adjusted my other cymbals to sit just above and behind my rack toms. This gives me pretty good balance between the pieces in my overhead(s). With one mic I've found the spot just over my head to be nice (if it's an omni mic).

Also, you can try to discipline your playing to control the dynamics more. My main ride is really loud, so I've forced myself to play it much softer than normal so it balances out with the rest of the kit. Or, you could even use a lighter stick on your snare hand. A lot of times I'll use a heavier stick in my snare hand.

[gusty]

Hey im just wondering what gear you need to record drums, so they dont sound trashy, but get a sound close to that of the real thing. what would i need? eg. mics, all that

[NY_Recording_Freak]

depends on your budget, you can spend a few hundred to a few thousands

[gusty]

ok...but what do i need?

[cyeazel]

Any microphone will work but for the best sound quality on a budget, I'd recommend at least 2 overhead condenser mics. If your budget allows and you want to spend more, then you can always buy a mic for your snare, kick drum, and toms in addition to the 2 overheads. You'd also need a board or some kind of digital recorder with enough mic inputs. Or you could just do the old fashioned thing and press record on your boombox and record straight to tape.

[gusty]

would say, 1 overhead and a zoom multi track recorder be enough?

[gusty]

or should i buy something with more inputs (it only has one)

[cyeazel]

One mic would work but the quality will obviously be limited. It also depends on what you want to use the recordings for. If it's just for personal use and critique then that's totally fine. But if you want to get into professinal sounding recordings, you're gonna need to spend some money. I'd say two inputs would be better but again, it just depends on what you want to spend and what you want to do with your recordings.

[gusty]

actually maybe it has 2...

[PdoubleE]

ya know... i used a mix of sm 58s and nadys.. and my tracks sound decent.. I have noticed that you can get a better sound from positioning your mics correctly.

[HardcoreLogo]

M-Audio makes a product that consists of a PCI card and "Brakeout" box that allows you to plug four analog inputs into your computer at a time, and then you can use software as your mixing source.The delta 66 will allow you "Bus" up to four of these units at a time, giving you up to 16 analog inputs at a time to record with. As far as sound quality, its like the others have said, what are you going for? Using proper drum mics will greatly improve the sound, and proper micing techniques can be learned on-line on many great sites.

[tambian89]

Hey:

My band and I are going to go into a new studio that was opened in my town. The equipment is all provided (except the instruments), but there's a catch: if you set up yourself, and record yourself, you can have 50% taken off the bill. We know how to record with the system and everything but my question is about microphoning the drum kit.

So far, I have not checked with anyone, as I don't know anyone who has any experience in setting up drum microphone equipment. I went to Derek Roddy's site, and his microphones were set up with three microphones above the cymbals, which easily recorded the sound. However, my cymbal setup is quite different, as they are in structured so that when I play live, I need at least 4 microphones (my cymbals are set up similarly to danny carey's). Derek Roddy has his cymbals close together and are centered around the bass drums. How can I set up the cymbal microphones to record the sound? Please remember that I have no oppurtunities for trial and error.

A question about micing the snare: Derek Roddy amplified both the batter and resoant heads. Should I do the same?

- Marc

[finnhiggins]

If you can afford an engineer that knows their stuff it's really going to be worth it. Trust me, the first few times you do this there are ALWAYS going to be errors in how you do it that you wish you'd done right the first time.

As for number of overheads, I wouldn't bother attempting four. Why not? Well, the more microphones you have covering the same things the more likely you are to encounter phasing issues - this is when the sound arrives at different microphones in a slightly different manner meaning that when you sum the two sounds together you get a lower quality of sound than you would with any single microphone. Not only that but even if you use the exact same make and model of microphone you may find yourself getting different sounds from different microphones - this is why overhead mikes are normally sold as matched pairs of condensers with sequential serial numbers. Using four is going to require two pairs, which might result in two different overhead sounds you have to mix together.

If you're not experienced at recording your drums then I would suggest you restrict your microphone setup to two overheads in an X/Y arrangement. Back off as far as you must to make sure all the cymbals are picked up by the polar patterns of the mikes.

If you've got the channels and microphones then by all means mike the top and bottom of your snare. But remember you may need to flip the phase on one of the mikes by 180 degrees at the mixing stage to avoid phasing issues - try it both ways and see what sounds good to you.

Other than that... if you've not miked your kit a lot before I think you need the engineer if you want quality results. The only alternative is to spend a lot of time on trial-and-error with mic placement and selection, which could end up costing you the extra 50% anyway. Why not just pay for the engineer while you're getting a drum and vocal sound and do the guitar/bass recording and drum/vocal takes on your own?

[TPC]

finn is right on, but to add my 2 cents ...

a while back there was a thread about a simple miking scheme, and it was something like this. a good bass drum mic placed near the resonant head, near the hole, or near the batter head, whatever sounds best, one (condenser?) a couple feet directly above the snare. and another (condenser?) over your right shoulder, trying to keep both these mic's about the same distance from the bass drum and snare. set your levels, and go.

or go hog wild, and close mic all the drums, and have a couple (stereo pair) overheads; and what the hey, throw in a couple more condensers 10 and 20 feet away (at knee height, of course.)

[IDDrummer]

Finn covered things pretty well. If you are going to simply record a demo, two overheads will work. When my band records "scratch" recordings when developing new songs, I use two SM81's overhead, an SM57 on the snare and a mic in the bass drum (most recently an Audix D6, which I love). The stereo pair of overheads picks up all the cymbals and toms without a problem. The snare and bass mic provide presence and body, but they are not very loud in the mix - most of the sound is provided by the overheads. If I were going to add two mics I'd put them on the ride and hi-hat.

Beyond that, you're getting into close-mic'ing everything anyway.

Position is everything with the overheads! You'll have to experiment.

For the first recording, I'd pay for the engineer and watch him like a hawk. Then you'll be more prepared to do decent job when you record on your own.

[tambian89]

I'd like to thank everyone for posting (a special thankyou to Finn). Problem 1: My band has become sort of "notorius" for our high quality recordings, since we have always had an engineer on-hand to set up the studio prior to the session and also remain should we encounter any problems. Problem 2: On all other recordings, I have used the drum kit provided; in the next recording I will be using my own. My question is regarding the cymbals: would 2 microphones in the X/Y position suggested by Finn work well? (I have provided a picture of the cymbals from a "bird's eye view")

- Marc

[TPC]

two overheads will work fine for the cymbals, bat as IDD said, posistion is everything. try out a couple of placements until the balance is right.

[tmc]

Hello.

Two overheads is a good place to start, but I find that they don't do much for the bass drum. To keep expenses and time down, you can use two overheads (placed high enough to catch all of your cymbals) in an x-y pattern and one room mic (a good-quality large condensor). Placed properly, this mic will help fill in the cymbals, the toms and the bass drum. I have my room mic placed about 4-feet off the ground and about 8 feet from the kit.

If you need a little extra from anything else (snare, bass drum, etc.) you can add close mics to the mix. The latest trend, for example, is to mic the top and bottom of the snare.

Personally (limited by the number of mics I currently own) I have the two overheads, the room mic, a beta 52 in my bass drum, an SM57 on my snare, one beta56 (for now) on my middle tom, and a couple of small condensors picking up the ride and high-hats. I have no doubt that I could easily get by with the overheads and the room mic, though.... although I might want to keep the 52 in the bass drum.

No matter which route you take you'll find, with some necessary experimentation, that mic placement is the biggest factor (right after proper drum tuning and the actual recording space).

Good luck, man.

-Michael

[tambian89]

Hello.

Two overheads is a good place to start, but I find that they don't do much for the bass drum. To keep expenses and time down, you can use two overheads (placed high enough to catch all of your cymbals) in an x-y pattern and one room mic (a good-quality large condensor). Placed properly, this mic will help fill in the cymbals, the toms and the bass drum. I have my room mic placed about 4-feet off the ground and about 8 feet from the kit.

If you need a little extra from anything else (snare, bass drum, etc.) you can add close mics to the mix. The latest trend, for example, is to mic the top and bottom of the snare.

Personally (limited by the number of mics I currently own) I have the two overheads, the room mic, a beta 52 in my bass drum, an SM57 on my snare, one beta56 (for now) on my middle tom, and a couple of small condensors picking up the ride and high-hats. I have no doubt that I could easily get by with the overheads and the room mic, though.... although I might want to keep the 52 in the bass drum.

No matter which route you take you'll find, with some necessary experimentation, that mic placement is the biggest factor (right after proper drum tuning and the actual recording space).

Good luck, man.

-Michael

Thanks for your help. The drums will be individually microphoned, so I am not at all worried about them. I think a microphone place above the crash on my left-hand side and a microphone place above the ride will work.

- Marc

[davodi74]

Hey everyone,

I have recently been pondering about what recording equipment to get. Here are my wishes:

1) I wanna spend around $200 total - both software and equipment added up.
2) No more than 2 mics total (sorry, but I am on a budget)

I am currently looking at:

The MXL MXL 990 Condenser Mic with Shock Mount and Case:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/buy_mxl_mxl_990_condenser_microphone_with_shockmou nt?full_sku=273156

...and the Sony Acid Music Studio 6:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/product/buy_sony_acid_music_studio_6?full_sku=703492

If anyone owns one or both of these products, could you give me a review? Also, I own a Dell Dimension 8400 computer. Is the Sony Acid Music Studio 6 compatible with it? And finally, if anyone has any other suggestions of good quality/well priced equipment could you write them down for me? Thanks.

Any and all comments are very much appreciated.

[Jay.B.]

A decent condenser mic placed in the right position overhead, and a dedicated kick drum mic (AKG D112 or similar) together should give you a very balanced sound, it might take a bit of time getting the possitionaing right, but you should get a good overall sound. go to the following thread and to post number 8, there's an MP3 of my kit recorded with 2 mics.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14141

If you're going straight in to your PC and not via a desk of sorts, you might want to invest in a multi in/out sound card like an m-audio delta 66 with a break out box that has 4 jack inputs and 4 jack outputs for multi channel simultaneous recording.

As for software, I'm a cubase head, the only experience I've had with ACID was with the first 2 versions which I found very basic, and the EQ wasn't exactly up to much, and they are a very important factor. I couldn't say what the latest version is like as I haven't touched it since, but logic audio might also be a possibility as it handles multi track recording very well.

[TitanSound]

I have Acid Pro 6 but use it only for electronic MIDI type stuff. As long as you have a decent sound card and a good amount of RAM it should run no problem.

[Jay.B.]

I have Acid Pro 6 but use it only for electronic MIDI type stuff. As long as you have a decent sound card and a good amount of RAM it should run no problem.

I didn't know acid pro had moved in to the midi market, it was purely a sample sequencer when I had a play with it, and could only handle single channel recordings, progress eh

go to http://www.myspace.com/jayb72 to have a listen at some of my techno/hard house productions, not drum related, but it was all written, produced and mixed on my PC

[TitanSound]

Yeah ACID has come a long long way since the early versions.

Sony bought out Sonic Foundry so now have the rights to produce SoundForge and ACID.

Will have a listen to those tunes when I get home!

[Jay.B.]

I have sony sound forge 7, but still prefer sonic foundy sound forge 6, it just seems more stable, and has been my main sample editor for years, it's a fantastic peice of software. Have tried other software like wavelab and cool edit, but find sound forge the most comfortable to use.

[davodi74]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone. I haven't heard of the SoundForge series, but I'll check them out.

Jay B., your kit sounds great! I'll check out those mics. Also, is the SoundForge series and/or the Acid series compatible with a Dell Dimension 8400?

[Jay.B.]

Cheers dude.

Shop around for the software, it's not cheep stuff, soundforge is mainly sample editing software, it can be used for holding samples for triggering by midi, but it's mainly an editing package, but very good it is.

the audio/midi sequencers like cubase and logic usually retail at around the £500 mark, again, shop around and you might get a bundled deal with something else.

The sound card I mentioned or similar shouldn't cost more than about £150, again it depends on the model and where you buy it from, also, some soundcards come with "Cut down" versions of logic or cubase, usually called cubasis or cubase light or something like that, they might even be capable enough of doing what you require. The main thing you're going to need on your PC is a large hard drive with very fast access times as you'll be playing large audio files that you recorded and they can't be easilly be stored in the RAM.

Having looked at the specs on the dell site, I'd say you'd have no problem running any of the software mentioned, just keep your hard drive well maitained and as clutter free as possible.

[davodi74]

I guess that is a bit out of my price range. No more than $200 for me. Thanks, though!

[neilpscuz]

Dude look around, I got Cubase LE for $99 ! You will still need a sound card, and that is critical. The better the card(an A/D/A converter), the better sounds you will produce. The mxl mics are ok, but again, a critical part.You can pm me if you have any more questions, hope this helps.

[Jay.B.]

I guess that is a bit out of my price range. No more than $200 for me. Thanks, though!

Check out the contants of the sound card package, like I said, it might have "light" versions of the software included which may be more than adequate for what you need it for, the mics are also a very important part of the equasion like neilpscuz said.

Concentrate on the mics and sound card first

[davodi74]

Thanks for all of the great advice, everyone. I have some news.

GOOD NEWS
1) My local GC is offering me the MXL MXL 990 Condencer Mic and two other higher quality mics all with shockmounts and cases for $99.99.

BAD NEWS:
1) I was an idiot and thought that the Acid Pro 6 was $69.95. It is really $399.99 plus tax. I was looking at the upgrade from version 5.0 to version 6.0. Moronic, eh?
2) I am going to Barcelona with my family for three weeks in about a month or so, so I want to have some money for the vacation to bust on soccer balls, souvenirs and other things. Sigh.
3) The sale on the Cakewalk SONAR Home Studio 4 is going to be over when I get back.
4) The even better sale on the mics I mentioned earlier will be over also when I get back in the states.

Alas, the recording equipment will have to wait, but not for long. Again, thanks for all of the help.

[larrylover]

We all talk so much about....... buying our sets.... playing our sets.... fixing our sets..... upgrading our sets...... breaking our sets....

But when do we ever discuss recording them?

I've recorded a few times. Have u guys? I wanna know whats goin' on!

Do u grab a computer and mics at home, or do u pay for a studio?

Does ur guitar player record with u? what?

[Ramsh]

I went to a full electronic kit to make recording easier for me, it's just a fine thing for me to record my stuff alone :)

[Stu_Strib]

I just bought a MacBook, and I'm working on Presonus Firepod and drum mics. When I find some decent band mates, I plan not only to record in the house, but record live as well.

[parser]

I also use the FirePod with a RNC stereo compressor into an iMac with Cubase LE. Nothing fancy, but I'm loving it! The compressor makes all the difference in the world on the kick and snare, and for less than $200 with shipping!

check my thread for more details and happy recording!

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15635

[ajgdrums722]

I have a BOSS BR-1600 Digital Recorder with a Samson 7 piece mic set specific for drums. It's amazing. There's nothing you can't do on it. I never play without hitting the record button now. It's such a benefit.

[neilpscuz]

I have a e-machine computer, cubase LE, Layla sound card, Alesis Studio 32, that i use for recording. Check out Oktava mics dudes ! Russian made mics built w/ "borrowed" technology from pro line mics ! Can't beat them for the price. I'll try and post some recordings soon.

[larrylover]

I recorded a few songs with my "Band" on a Dell demension 4400 desktop. I used 4 mics, they were all different shure SM 57's or 56's... or some 50. But its came out great. all it takes was a few tweaks of the soundboard and we got a very profetional sounding record.

[aahznightsky]

I record pretty often for various projects ... and I've also been on the lookout for good players in the area to start something with. I'm running Pro tools on a g5 along with a lot of other gear that I don't really feel like listing at the moment. But are we here to just talk about random stuff or actually discuss different aspects of recording?

[gringo998]

i know macs are the leading system in the market for recording stuff, but are they really necessary?
id like to get a nice recording set up in the near futre, and im awaare ill need to spend a good amount of money, but i was thinking about it and like, 3 grand just for a macbookpro? i could get such an amazing set for that price, i would ratehr do that.

[hey_julius]

is there anyone that can give any advice on what to use for recording drums at home?
I'm planning to buy a 7 piece drum mic set but not sure on the interface to use for connecting them to the computer...totally lost. help please :)

[matt986]

It's hard to answer this question with so little information... Do you have a sound proof area at home? is the room carpet or hardwood or cement? what are the walls made of? cathedral cieling? lots of windows? See, all of these things will play into how your drums record. Personally, I've always gone under the idea that less is mroe in the studio. I use three mics. Two overheads, positioned equal distances from the set on the left and right at the same angle, if possible, to where the throne is positioned and then put a standard mic..like an SM57, to the bass drum. Which leads me to my next question.

What are you recording into? I'm using a mac with a pro tools M box. It only has two imputs, so I have to run through an analog mixer first and then pan the overheads to get that stereo sound, then mix down to one track into the M box. I would set this channel as mono in pro tools so as not to mess up whats comming from the mixer. Then I plug the BD mic directly into the M box and again record it as a mono track.

In a room that isn't a completely sound proof room, adding mics just means adding noise. The more you have, the more hiss you will hear through the mix and you may even have some phazing (sp?) occur. That's a bad thing. You dont need drum mics for this...drum mics were in fact intended for live use, if I'm not mistaken, and not necessarily recording applications. I have never used drum mics in any studio I've recorded in, let alone my home recordings.

So my advice to you is to hold of on the set mics and invest in a nice set of pencil condensors...stay away from the large diaphram mics for drums, simply because of a common myth that can actually lower your recording quality. People think a large diaphram can pick up more low end sounds than a pencil mic...this is true to an extent..however, what you gather in tone is lost in response time of the diaphram within the mic. It takes longer to rebound back to position (in a large diaphram) and may not react as quickly to faster drum work..for example snare buzz rolls and the like. A pencil may not get all the low frequencies (and I'm tlaking around the 30 to 40 herts mark..a place only your bass drum will sit, which you would have miced seperately in this setup) but it will, however, respond much faster, ready for more after every hit.

So to sum it up, Get two condensors and an SM57, a Mac with a gig and a half of ram running pro tools, and an M audio interface along with an analog mixer that has phantom power to run your mics. Use high end cables, such as the monster XLRs, for example, wherever possible. If you use condensos, turn off EVERYTHING around you. Computers, heaters, air conditioners, microwaves..basically anything that makes noise our puts out electromagnetic interfierence...because the mics will pick all of that garbage up.

Hope this helps,

Matt

[finnhiggins]

I'd have to disagree with some of Matt's advice here.

ProTools is a waste of money if you're on a budget, unless you need to be able to interoperate with friends or studios that run it. Particularly if you're only recording two channels - there's FREE software that can handle that just fine, for crying out loud! Also, you lose a very large amount of the advantage of a computer-based DAW system by sub-mixing your analogue mikes to two channels - you can't use any computer-based effects, EQ or compression on individual microphones, and any levels balance mistakes made at the analogue stage cannot be reversed. The money wasted on PT would be better put towards actually having as many input channels as you have mikes.

For the money all that'd cost you'd be better off ditching the Mac (if money is an issue), getting a decently-made PC, getting Sonar instead of ProTools and getting something like a Presonus Firepod or M-Audio Delta 1010LT (depending on whether you have preamps already or not) - all of a sudden you can record your mikes directly into individual channels in your software, add EQ, effects and all manner of other stuff as you wish and have plenty of opportunity to mix and re-mix.

[samthebeat]

I have worked in a studio before, and I had my own once. I think I have tried most things with recording drums. Now i just record at home, cheaper than renting a studio. I use a mixer and adat, then I mix it down onto computer to play with it. Im gonna buy one of those 16track multitracks soon though, I wanna more compact set up just for tracking.

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

I record stuff on my own and with my guitarist bandmate. I just use my PC with the Presonus Firebox interface. I have a couple channel strips, an extra pre amp, and a few mics that I use. I actually love recording. With my solo music I overdub all the parts myself. I love talking about recording to. It's a bit early though and I am pretty brain dead. hah!

[adorno]

For my band's second album we used a studio in London - run by a super cool guy who's just starting out and therefore has cheap rates.

Even though he increasingly uses Pro Tools to record he prefers to use his 16 track 1/4" tape machine to record drums. There is undoubtedly a warmer sound with analogue - if you record your instruments really hot onto tape, the tape naturally compresses the levels giving them a nice warmth - the kind of sound you get on those 60s/70s classic rock albums.

With regards to our sessions, cause we wanted a nice live sound we used very few mikes - one on the snare (SM57) and one on the bass drum (AKG112) and maybe one or two condensors as overheads way above the kit. It sounded really cool and I was really happy with the results.

In the end though, from my experience, getting decent drum sounds down is as much about having a great sounding room and drumkit as it is about the actual recording equipment. Though obviously, awesome mikes can only help....

[Stu_Strib]

3 grand just for a macbookpro? i could get such an amazing set for that price, i would ratehr do that.

My MacBook is plenty powerful and was only $1000 with student discount and upgrade upto 1 Gig from 512, and I got a free iPod nano worth $150.

So no, you don't need to break the bank with a Mac. Plus you can get a MacBook pro for $1999 with student discount, if you just have to have an overpriced video card added in.

You could also stick to a cheap pc, but results will vary wildly. Or you can go through the hassle of custom building a very good PC workstation. Or you can avoid the hassle and get a MacBook, iMac or even the mini mac (with intel) is fast enough to record 8-12 channels.

If you are set on PC mode, I recommend pm Finnhiggins.

[Drums558]

I have a e-machine computer, cubase LE, Layla sound card, Alesis Studio 32, that i use for recording. Check out Oktava mics dudes ! Russian made mics built w/ "borrowed" technology from pro line mics ! Can't beat them for the price. I'll try and post some recordings soon.
We use cubase (version?), Alesis 24, with 2, 16 channel Alen & Heath boards. One mixer for recording into the alesis and one for playback. I'm not sure about all the equipement details but I know alot of money has been spent on the computer side of the fence, and no it's not a mac. We've also spent alot of money on mic's, mostly top notch vocal mic's.
We have a friend who own's a music store that has 2 Oktava's he got off e-bay and he let us use them for 6 months, I agree these are excellent mic's for overheads.

When we record we like to record a scratch track with a click, then we record drums and bass listening to the scratch track with the click. I like the click to be the most dominant voice in the cans, with the rest of the track barely audible, just for reference. Then the other guys layer over the top of the new bass and drum tracks. Usually it's rythm guitar, lead vocals, harmony vocals, then the lead/solo instruments.
There are no rules so experiment a bit, if you can, and see what works for you.

Mike

[hey_julius]

cool. this is helpful!
few simple questions.
1) can i use an 8 track analogue mixer for example to run each separate drum mic through? HOW do i connect that to a pc so that each track comes up separatley? do i need some other interface in between my 8 track mixer and the pc? We've been using a freeware program called n track...we have no money!
or to cut a long question short...forget about drums and everything - whats the easiest way to record 7 tracks simultanously(sp?)?

Thanks for all the info :)

[Rezn8]

We all talk so much about....... buying our sets.... playing our sets.... fixing our sets..... upgrading our sets...... breaking our sets....

But when do we ever discuss recording them?

I've recorded a few times. Have u guys? I wanna know whats goin' on!

Do u grab a computer and mics at home, or do u pay for a studio?

Does ur guitar player record with u? what?

I used to do a lot of sessions at studios, but now I do most of my recordings in our basement studio. We've been building and modifying it all ourselves

We should have a recording section here on the forum (maybe there is but I haven't found it yet).

I think the most important thing to do is to tame the acoustics of the room FIRST. You can get a really decent recording on a modest budget if you can get your room under control. Then you need to learn some good recording skills.

I learned most of what I know from watching and asking questions when I was recording in the "pro" studios, as well as countless hours searching the Internet for more info.

I've been posting examples of our home recording here:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=68265

The most recent examples are recorded live - every one playing at the same time in the same room. The tracks are recorded into a computer and the processing begins - mixing, adding effects like compression, verb, etc)

Mostly we use a three-mic set up for drums, but we're also experimenting with other techniques. I don't always get it right, but I'm getting closer everyday.

Getting a great drum sound for recording has been my main focus lately. An obsession, actually. So if anybody ever wants to talk about recording techniques - count me in!!!


Cheers, Rez

[tmc]

We all talk so much about....... buying our sets.... playing our sets.... fixing our sets..... upgrading our sets...... breaking our sets....

But when do we ever discuss recording them?

I've recorded a few times. Have u guys? I wanna know whats goin' on!

Do u grab a computer and mics at home, or do u pay for a studio?

Does ur guitar player record with u? what?

Hi larrylover.

I have my kit mic'ed and they go into a large 32 channel mixer, mixed down and off to the Tascam 8-track digital recorder. It's fun and great for learning.

I also record my guitarist and I when we jam. Cool stuff.

Because I've worked on computers in many capacities over the years, I try to take them out of the equation (for now at least) when it comes to drumming and recording.

-Michael

[Oldie]

You need preamps to run the mics and some sort of interface on your pc.
I would look at presonus firepod. This eliminates the need for mixer. You can run 8 mics into the firepod, each well be one track in your recording software.

Look here (http://www.presonus.com/firepod.html)

It's a bundle with Cubase recording software

/Frode

[hey_julius]

ah. cool. that connects via usb right? is there like a...budget version of that?!

[Oldie]

It connects with Firewire. USB is not very good for multitrack recording.
USB 2.0 is quite good bandwith vise, but it's cpu heavy.

/frode

[Stu_Strib]

whats the easiest way to record 7 tracks simultanously(sp?)?

Thanks for all the info :)

A presonus firepod hooked up to a Mac laptop running garage band. It doesn't get much easier than that.

Plug your mics in, plug the firewire firepod in, turn on the mac, run garage band, create a new file, add 7 tracks and start recording!

[Chip]

Wow, that's great! I've got access to a Mac, but not 1200 for a firepod, which is bad.... I thought I founds me an easy way of just recording my progress..... Very difficult to start, recording is.

[hey_julius]

cheers stu. is the firepod honestly the cheapest one around though!? what are those things called anyway? preamps?

and what about these things: http://www.lentine.com/uploads/87142-3370.jpg

what are they like if anyone knows? if anyone could give me a quick explanation on what i could do with one of them it would be nice :)

[Oldie]

Wow, that's great! I've got access to a Mac, but not 1200 for a firepod, which is bad.... I thought I founds me an easy way of just recording my progress..... Very difficult to start, recording is.

The firepod is 800, not 1200.

is the firepod honestly the cheapest one around though!? what are those things called anyway? preamps?
and what about these things: http://www.lentine.com/uploads/87142-3370.jpg
Microphones sends a very weak signal, thus the need for (pre)amplification up to line level.

The lentine stuff is a harddisk recorder. They are easy to use. an eighttrack have eight mic preamps. just connect the mics and go..

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

I would suggest either the Presonus Firepod ($600) or the Delta 1010 ($400). The Delta has no preamps or phantom power though. However, if you get into serious home recording, you will probably want to buy better preamps anyway. The preamps in budget mixers and PC interfaces work fine, but stand alone pres are an improvement. I own the Presonus Firebox and it is just great, but I wish I would have gotten the Delta instead to have more i/o's. I'm already buying extra preamps to add to my palatte.

[Chip]

The firepod is 800, not 1200.
Not in Australia it isn't. I probably should have mentioned that. $1200AU.

[hey_julius]

if i was to buy a little boss portastudio like one i linked to earlier... what gets put on to the cd? like the separate tracks which i could then put into a different recording program?

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

I've had limited experience with the Boss recorder linked, but I think it's just a stereo mix that gets burned to the CD. I suppose you could just solo tracks and burn each to the CD, but that would be pretty time consuming. If you're looking for portability, something like that Boss recorder would be cool. Personally, I don't like working with such small LCDs and would prefer my PC monitor. For what you would spend on that Boss unit, you could get the Delta 1010 plus a nice preamp or two.

[jiyah7]

hey i got 2 condensor mics for my bday and i was wondering would it be ok
(1) to use a normal mic aswell so i have 2 above and 1 in bass
(2) just use 1 condensor in the bass drum and one over head
thanks

[JoeyMoon]

can you tell us a little more about the mic's you've got?

polar patterns? Size of diaphragm?

it's not often much good using different mic's for your overheads as this causes an unbalanced sound.

it depends very much on what sort of drumming you're recording as to what mic set up you want... let us know.

best tip and aplicable to all recording is there are no real rules, through trial and error you will learn what does and what doesn't work. Most modern mic's are built to stand up to high sound pressure levels and so can sit inside a kick drum without fear of killing them. There are mic's designed to clip onto toms and to sit inside kick drums but i've heard some fun results using kick mics for vocals, and indeed guitar pick ups for vocals. So experimenting, i reckon, is the way forward.

NB: if you have a ribbon mic, don't put this inside a kick. It wont thank you, but it's unlikely you'll have one.

Joe

[neilpscuz]

You could do either, actually. If you have a dynamic mic for your kick, I would suggest using the condenser mics as overheads. If not, then one condenser mic in front of your BD and the other as an overhead works also. I would suggest the condenser in FRONT of the BD, not in it ( if you choose to go this route ), so the mic can "breathe". Alot of it DOES come down to personal prefrence, mic quality, room, and mic-placement. Try experimenting with all these factors if you can.

[tmc]

hey i got 2 condensor mics for my bday and i was wondering would it be ok
(1) to use a normal mic aswell so i have 2 above and 1 in bass
(2) just use 1 condensor in the bass drum and one over head
thanks

Hi jiyah7.

Whatever you do, don't put one of your new condendor mics in the kick drum. If you do, you'll likely be the proud new owner of only one mic... The SPL (sound pressure levels) from a bass drum are far higher than what most condensors can handle.

If you can't afford a dedicated kick drum mic (like the Shure Beta 52A), you can try something like a Shure SM-57 to start (BONUS: the SM-57 will be perfect for your snare when you do are able to afford a kick drum mic).

On the other hand, with proper mic placement, you should be able to get pretty good sound from your condensor pair as overheads (this partly depends on the room your drums are in, by the way). Place them directly over your head, far enough away that you won't be smackin' 'em when you play. From there, try moving them a little further back or forward to pick up more of the kick...

-Michael

[jiyah7]

thanks so much i am so glad you told me not to put it in the bass drum cuse i would have lol any way thanks heaps
i just play around with it a bit and experiment. should be heaps fun i just need a mixer now.

[JoeyMoon]

ello tmc,
i was gonna say something about this but i thought, in fact was fairly confident that this was okay. As i understand it the SPL inside a kick drum is not much over 120 dB SPL, many modern condensers are designed to take a dB SPL of over 130, and often come with a 10 dB pad so as not let high levels tear it to bits... Have you aquired this through trial and error (by which i mean killing mics) or is this information you've picked up from someone else? As you've got me questioning myself now... :-/.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

yes i searched! and found a plethora of very good information. as well as a thread about

twenty down that has unanswered questions... so i'm posting this.

first, here is what i'd like to accomplish: simple home recording of myself on drums

however, i have more questions:

i have come to the conclusion that i'm going to buy a single shure sm57 mic to record my

kit. i will eventually add on to this with more sm 57's and a beta52 or 56a as a kick mic,

but for now i'm keeping it simple with one. i assume that with my one sm57 to record my

entire kit it should be placed overhead, correct? or should it be out infront a few feet away?

how would it be placed over the kit if overhead, by way of a large boom stand or... (i told you i'm ignorant)

i don't have the microphone yet, so i don't know how it would hook up to my computer, is

it going to have a jack on the end of the cord that i can just plug right into my computer (like headphones)?

the recording software i'll be using is audacity by the way.

and for live gigs, i've never played with mics... and i don't know how they would work

basically... what would they plug into to amplify the drums?

ok, this is my first series of questions. i had more but i've lost them. they'll come back eventually, thanks everyone.

[pdp 9091]

hey i was gonna start a thread on this too. Im looking at a mic pack (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-DMK5-Drum-Mic-Package?sku=277126)
3 toms
1 snare
1 bass

then id need an overhead mic

then a mixer where the mics plug into??

i wanna record my drums just for something to do but not seriously like professional stuff or anything so could someone please help me and radiofriendlyunshifter with some good knowledge with direct links to producs

remember im on a budget

[Fat Elvis]

if you want to record drums, you will achieve pretty porr results with one mic. The problem being is that low frequencies (kick and toms) travel slower than high frequencies (snare and cymbals). So you can gather that if you use one mic for all things, you will hear a TON of snare and cymbals and almost no toms or kick. Be that as it may, I would suggesting recording with at least 2 mics -- one overhead (directly above you) and one in your kick. Three is better (2 overheads -- flanking you) and one in your kick. Best case, obviously, is to mic everything -- including 2 on the snare (bottom and top) 2 on the kick (resonant and batter) one on each tom, two overheads and one on the hats.

as far as how to get your sounds in your computer, you will need an interface. Your analog (mic) signal will not plug directly into your computer. You will need an interface which accepts both 1/4" (instrument and speaker) and XLR (mic) cables. These range from @ $100 to thousands and are available for macs and PC's.

Once you have that into your computer, you will need software to recognize and record -- that can be pro-tools, logic or garage band (mac). Im sure their are more, i am only familiar with ones on macs.

THAT is only if you use one mic. If you use more than one mic, you will either need a far more expensive interface that has multiple XLR inputs or you will need a board to dump everthing into and then pre-mix and then dump your entire drum mix into you computer at the same time via the one input (either XLR or speaker). Better to have an interface so you can seperate the mics out as much as possible.

hope that helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.

[Fat Elvis]

hey i was gonna start a thread on this too. Im looking at a mic pack (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-DMK5-Drum-Mic-Package?sku=277126)
3 toms
1 snare
1 bass

then id need an overhead mic

then a mixer where the mics plug into??

i wanna record my drums just for something to do but not seriously like professional stuff or anything so could someone please help me and radiofriendlyunshifter with some good knowledge with direct links to producs

remember im on a budget

you get what you pay for -- i.e. nady mic pack = zbt cymbal pack. it is better to get one good kick mic and two descent condensor overhead mics than to spend money on a cheap mic pack. I spent $350 on a set of audix mics and the tom mics are excellent, the kick mic (which is really a floor tom mic) needs to be replaced and the overheads are marginal at best. In a pinch, it will do -- just not ideal.

[rendezvous_drummer]

I really don't know alot about recording drums, but I do know that of you record your entire kit with one mic, it should be over head to catch all of the sounds. Place it between your toms but not too close to the cymbals...it's difficult with just one mic indeed. Yea you would put it on a large mic boom stand. There's different mic wires to buy. One goes into an amp, the other goes into a mixer. Get the one that goes into an amp and then buy a little adapter where you put the jack into, and on the other end is a smaller plug in that will go into your computer. What kind of recording software do you have?
Here's a picture of the adapter. Hopefully this helps.
http://home.earthlink.net/~wb5rex/xtalman/big2smladap.JPG

[pdp 9091]

ive come to the conclusion im gonna go to the guitar center and tell the guy wut i want to do and then he'll put boxes in front of me for wut i need and ill give him money and ill go home. Im so clueless when it comes to recording! haha

[Fat Elvis]

ive come to the conclusion im gonna go to the guitar center and tell the guy wut i want to do and then he'll put boxes in front of me for wut i need and ill give him money and ill go home. Im so clueless when it comes to recording! haha

just remember when you buy mics, you will need to buy clips, a mic stand for the kick and cables for everything.

[pdp 9091]

just remember when you buy mics, you will need to buy clips, a mic stand for the kick and cables for everything.


yep...its kinda like buying cymbals....u need stands too....haha

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

thanks for the quick replies. ok, so this is going to be more than i had previously

calculated. i will need an interface at ~ $100 (probably more considering i will eventually

by more than one overhead mic), the mic itself, wire ($?) and adapter ($?)

ok, so if i was to start off with a single nice overhead condenser mic, (i don't have the cash to drop for a pack)

would a shure sm57 be an overhead condenser mic?

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

oh and my recording software is audacity

[rendezvous_drummer]

oh and my recording software is audacity
Cool man, that's what I have. Very trusted.

[Fat Elvis]

thanks for the quick replies. ok, so this is going to be more than i had previously

calculated. i will need an interface at ~ $100 (probably more considering i will eventually

by more than one overhead mic), the mic itself, wire ($?) and adapter ($?)

ok, so if i was to start off with a single nice overhead condenser mic, (i don't have the cash to drop for a pack)

would a shure sm57 be an overhead condenser mic?

interface is $100 -- i have one -- does the job just fine. Has one XLR input and a USB output.

The sm57 is a dynamic mic, not a condensor mic. It will work as an overhead, just not ideal. Condensor mics pick up sound in a different way than do dynamic mics. Dynamic mics are much better for toms and snares. More of a direct path of sound. But, like i said, the sm57 is an all around good instrument mic -- it will work as an overhead.

sm57 = $100

XLR cable = @ $20

boom stand = @ $30

so $250 + tax, you can get a basic set up. You wont find a good condensor mic for cheaper than the sm57. So stick with that if you are on a severe budget.

[Fat Elvis]

oh and you wont need an adapter -- that adapter is if you want to use the mini jack input as a mic input. Not a good idea in my opinion.

[finnhiggins]

ok, so if i was to start off with a single nice overhead condenser mic, (i don't have the cash to drop for a pack)

would a shure sm57 be an overhead condenser mic?

No. The SM57 is a dynamic microphone rather than a condenser. As such it is excellent for close-micing of loud sound sources like snare drums or guitar amps. But it's not excellent at all for a single all-around overhead or room microphone, as like all dynamic mics it has pretty poor response in the high frequencies. Translation: your cymbals will sound terrible.

To get better frequency response in the high end you need a condenser microphone. There are two kinds of condenser, generally speaking: small-diaphram, which are often used for overhead microphones and are the most common condenser in a live environment, and large-diaphram which are more expensive, normally used for vocals or acoustic instruments and are usually studio-bound.

When it comes to drum recording a good large-diaphram condenser will often do a better job of recording a whole kit as a room mic, while small-diaphram ones are better for overheads.

Generally speaking condenser mics of all description need +48V phantom power from somewhere, which means you can't just be plugging them into a microphone input on a sound card or into a consumer tape recorder. They need to be plugged into a mixer, a microphone pre-amp or a sound card with pre-amps and phantom power like a Presonus Firepod or similar.

I have a Rode NT1A for recording room sounds during band practices or when practicing, and I have a couple of 57s which I use to get some close sound from the kick and snare. The 57 isn't ideal for the kick because it doesn't have quite good enough response at the low end and misses some of the punch, but it does alright for rough recording.

[rendezvous_drummer]

oh and you wont need an adapter -- that adapter is if you want to use the mini jack input as a mic input. Not a good idea in my opinion.
Way to shut me down like that :( I dunno, my band did a little recording and it didn't sound half bad, but yea, if you want a professional style of recording, might not be the best idea.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

thanks so much for the help. could you kindly point me in the right direction as far

interfaces go? i'm on samash.com right now and there are 89 items found in

my "interface" search. you say that yours has only one XLR input? isn't the xlr input the

mic input? i thought you had more than one mic?

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

No. The SM57 is a dynamic microphone rather than a condenser. As such it is excellent for close-micing of loud sound sources like snare drums or guitar amps. But it's not excellent at all for a single all-around overhead or room microphone, as like all dynamic mics it has pretty poor response in the high frequencies. Translation: your cymbals will sound terrible.

gotcha. what would be a nice all around condenser mic and how much would it run. not top of the line, but not bottom of the barrel


Generally speaking condenser mics of all description need +48V phantom power from somewhere, which means you can't just be plugging them into a microphone input on a sound card or into a consumer tape recorder. They need to be plugged into a mixer, a microphone pre-amp or a sound card with pre-amps and phantom power like a Presonus Firepod or similar.


woah woah, this is where you lose me. what is +48V (volts i assume) phantom power. i

don't know what a sound card is or a pre-amp or what presonus or firepod are. and you

mentioned nothing about an interface? or is a mixer an interface.

[finnhiggins]

gotcha. what would be a nice all around condenser mic and how much would it run. not top of the line, but not bottom of the barrel


OK, for middle-of-the-line project studio type stuff I really like Rode. This may be because I'm in New Zealand and they're an aussie brand so they're pretty affordable here, but they seem to have a very solid price/performance ratio at least in this neck of the woods:

http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Home

For a basic small-diaphram condenser you might find these work pretty good for you:

http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=NT3

I rather like these for a proper set of overheads but they aren't all that cheap:

http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=NT5

.. and if you're looking at large-diaphram ones this is what I ended up with for personal use:

http://www.rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=NT1-A


woah woah, this is where you lose me. what is +48V (volts i assume) phantom power. i
don't know what a sound card is or a pre-amp or what presonus or firepod are. and you
mentioned nothing about an interface? or is a mixer an interface.

OK, here's the deal. Dynamic mics work by generating electricity from the movement of the diaphram inside a fixed magnetic field - a bit like a dynamo on a bike, you move a piece of metal inside a magnetic field and it generates electricity. Then there's condenser mics, which work by instead creating an electromagnetic field from a power source. In other words, condenser mics need power.

Some condensers - like the NT3 linked above - will take a battery. This is less than ideal as the batteries go flat and you have to keep replacing them. The other approach is what's called phantom power, where 48V is sent down the mic cable to power the microphone.

In order to send that 48V you need the mic cable plugged into something that can do it. That could be a mixer, or it could be a pre-amp, or it could be an interface that has pre-amps on it.

A bit about pre-amps: pre-amps are what need to sit between a microphone (which produce very quiet signals) and any line-level use like sending a signal to a sound card or tape machine. So the first stage of a mixer (the "Gain" or "Trim" knob) is a pre-amp. You can also buy pre-amps as external devices. The more expensive the microphones and audio interfaces you're using, the more expensive a pre-amp you'll want for best results. If you're starting out you can usually make do with whatever comes with your mixer or audio interface.

Some audio interfaces (like the Presonus Firepod) have pre-amps built in. Others (like mine, the M-Audio Delta1010LT) don't, and you have to have preamps before the sound card on each mic channel.

Whatever device you're using for your pre-amp (be it a mixer, an audio interface, a dedicated mic pre-amp or whatever) is where you're going to get your phantom power from for the microphone. So at this stage in the chain you'll need to be checking if what you're using has phantom power so you can plug condensers into it.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Finn, you're getting me closer to putting Rodes on my 'must buy for college' list. Goddamit!

[jiyah7]

also with mixers do drummers normally have a mixer that goes into a nother mixer after that if you get what i mean
(drum mics into mixer then the signal from that mixer goes into a big mixer with everything) thanks

[JoeyMoon]

it very much depends on what you've got available. that is an option but what will be the case if you have a massive mixer available to you is that each of your drum mics will take up a channel on the mixer that the rest of the band is also going through.

however if you haven't got that at your disposal you can send your drums through one mixer then send the stereo signal of that mixer through 2 channels of your main mix.

however if you've only got 3 mic's on your kit then you're only saving yourself 1 channel and causing some problems you might prefer to avoid.

what sort of music are you playing?

[jiyah7]

i play heavy metal/ hardcore
and i have a bass guitarist and 2 guitarists and they all do vocals
so its like 6 channels plus my drums
so im thinking ill have to get a mixer just for me and put that into a big mixer when they get one
if you get what i mean.
thanks

[JoeyMoon]

i play heavy metal/ hardcore
and i have a bass guitarist and 2 guitarists and they all do vocals
so its like 6 channels plus my drums
so im thinking ill have to get a mixer just for me and put that into a big mixer when they get one
if you get what i mean.
thanks

and a lot of people like to have 2 channels of bass guitar for rock music. one streight into the pre amps and one through an mic to the bass amp, which could add extra tracks! What are you recording on to? Hard Drive or MD or what?

If you're playing metal/hardcore i assume you'll want a lot of emphasis on your kick and snare for that you'll need dedicated mic's and if you've not got any mic's available to you that you can put into your kick (or that you're happy putting into your kick) then you'll need something close to your batter head (even if it's on the outside) to get that nice clicky thump attack sound as the beater contacts with the head. If you leave your kick mic outside the reverberant head of a drum that (i assume) has a lot of dampening in it, you may find it really rather flat as as result. If you use a lot of double kick (again, i'm assuming) then that will really detract from your over all drum sound.

the upside is, provided you don't use your toms a lot during the main beat of any of your tracks a well placed pair of overheads will prob take care toms and cymbols.

must dash as i'm at work

Joe

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

The SM57 would be a great starter mic, but since you are trying to capture your whole kit it may be better for you to pick up a large diaphram condensor instead. Stick that condensor out in front of your kit several feet about level with the top of your kick drum and it should do a pretty good job of getting the whole kit. I would suggest a condensor because it has a wider frequency response than the 57. After that, you could pick up a mic for your kick and use that condensor for an overhead. Then you could pick up the 57 and stick it on your snare, or whatever you want. Just an idea. However, I have gotten some great snare sounds from a SM58 that was unintentionally used as a room mic.

[Sesh]

Finn, you're getting me closer to putting Rodes on my 'must buy for college' list. Goddamit!

MFB, if you're looking at buying mics - as your UK as well as me - I'd definitely check out red5audio, they're a scottish company whoi manufacture/source parts from asia so they're really cheap. I've a full set of there's and they're great - particularly if you get the upgrade to the large diaphram condensors for overheads.

The cases are great, the mics are incredibly heavy duty and durable, and the sound quality is up there with the best. They also just got a great review in one of the UK drum mags (I think it was drummer! but it might have been rhythm, I can't remember)

web is www.red5audio.com

Check them out.

Mrtin

[komodo]

Ha, to record my drums i use a headset i use for online gaming, place it just over the bass drum between the toms,and i get decent results. Or for better recording i use a proper mic that connects to an amp,but i use the big to small adapter (pic above in thred) and put it directly to the comp. I use audacity too,an my results are pretty decent, but not professional

[Fat Elvis]

thanks so much for the help. could you kindly point me in the right direction as far

interfaces go? i'm on samash.com right now and there are 89 items found in

my "interface" search. you say that yours has only one XLR input? isn't the xlr input the

mic input? i thought you had more than one mic?

my interface has one XLR input (mic cable input) which is not ideal. I record my whole kit by putting all the mics into a board and pre-setting levels before recording and then i have the one output from the board as my one input into the interface. Its not the ideal solution, but it does sound good.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

ooook. i had no idea i was getting into all of this. so much for "you just plug the mic right into the computer, right?"

i think i'm going to stay away from mics at the moment. unless you can convince me that

they will be necessary for live gigs? do you all use your mics for gigs as well as home

recording?

if i'm not going to need mics for gigging uses, i'm looking into this:

http://www.samash.com/catalog/showitem.asp?ItemPos=1&TempID=2&STRID=122041&Method=3&CategoryID=318&BrandID=0&PriceRangeID=0&PageNum=0&DepartmentID=6&pagesize=10&SortMethod=2&SearchPhrase=&Contains=&Search_Type=Department&GroupCode=

a cheap digital multitrack.

[Fat Elvis]

i will always mic my kick drum at gigs. Bars i feel it is important to get the kick mic'd. As the venue gets larger i would put 2 overheads on there and then if i played a large room, i would mic everythying.

but if i was to personally have one mic, it would be a kick mic -- probably an audix d-6

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

MFB, if you're looking at buying mics - as your UK as well as me - I'd definitely check out red5audio, they're a scottish company whoi manufacture/source parts from asia so they're really cheap. I've a full set of there's and they're great - particularly if you get the upgrade to the large diaphram condensors for overheads.

The cases are great, the mics are incredibly heavy duty and durable, and the sound quality is up there with the best. They also just got a great review in one of the UK drum mags (I think it was drummer! but it might have been rhythm, I can't remember)

web is www.red5audio.com

Check them out.

Mrtin

Hmm ('http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Package_Deals.html') Those are some great prices and if the performance is what you suggest, you might just be onto a winner there. You've got my attention.

[tmc]

ello tmc,
i was gonna say something about this but i thought, in fact was fairly confident that this was okay. As i understand it the SPL inside a kick drum is not much over 120 dB SPL, many modern condensers are designed to take a dB SPL of over 130, and often come with a 10 dB pad so as not let high levels tear it to bits... Have you aquired this through trial and error (by which i mean killing mics) or is this information you've picked up from someone else? As you've got me questioning myself now... :-/.

Hey Joey.

I'm basing the numbers on what I've read at Shure.com and other mic companies. Some condensors will handle the load and, as you wrote, some have a 10dB pad. Still, it would suck to ruin a good mic with one slap of the pedal... The Shure Beta52A (kick drum mic) has a Max SPL of 174. That's a fair bit higher than most of the condensors...

-Michael

[tmc]

and a lot of people like to have 2 channels of bass guitar for rock music. one streight into the pre amps and one through an mic to the bass amp, which could add extra tracks!
8< snip snip snip >8
Joe

Hey Joey.

I'm curious about using two channels for the bass guitar. I would think that the signal sent straight to the mixer would be the best to use... why add another channel???

-Michael

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Hey Joey.

I'm curious about using two channels for the bass guitar. I would think that the signal sent straight to the mixer would be the best to use... why add another channel???

-Michael

Thicken up the sound perhaps? And maybe you want the DI sound and the cabinet sound, it's done with guitars a lot, so why not the bass? Although I agree it's not entirely necessary.

[JoeyMoon]

the DI sound is often not the prettiest, but it has got plenty of clarity, you can also bypass any effects that you might have on it, then through the cab/amp you can add any shape or eq or effects you might want or that you are used to on the mic track. as a general rule the bass sound a band want is the one they're used to using the bassists amp, obviously the closest thing to this will be the mic recording, the DI is just there for clarity and occasionally clout if you want it. It just gives you more options, and the band might discover that on record they dont want there bass going through any effects like they do live, and then you've got that option.

i don't think i've explained that very well, hope it makes sense
cheers
Joe

[tmc]

Thicken up the sound perhaps? And maybe you want the DI sound and the cabinet sound, it's done with guitars a lot, so why not the bass? Although I agree it's not entirely necessary.


the DI sound is often not the prettiest, but it has got plenty of clarity, you can also bypass any effects that you might have on it, then through the cab/amp you can add any shape or eq or effects you might want or that you are used to on the mic track. as a general rule the bass sound a band want is the one they're used to using the bassists amp, obviously the closest thing to this will be the mic recording, the DI is just there for clarity and occasionally clout if you want it. It just gives you more options, and the band might discover that on record they dont want there bass going through any effects like they do live, and then you've got that option.

i don't think i've explained that very well, hope it makes sense
cheers
Joe

Hi MFB and Joe.

Thanks for the info guys... I've been recording my kit for a while with pretty good success and I just bought a bass guitar a couple months ago... It will be interesting to see what I can get from the guitar using that technique. I suspect that the direct out will be far too clean for my level of playing :)

-Michael

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Record it clean then Mike ;-).

I nearly always practice my guitar on the clean channel. I find too much distortion really does give me a false impression of my playing. If I really want to practice I'll grab an acoustic and if I really, really, want to practice, I'll pick up a classical. I really like the idea of an acoustic bass actually...

[tmc]

Record it clean then Mike ;-).

I nearly always practice my guitar on the clean channel. I find too much distortion really does give me a false impression of my playing. If I really want to practice I'll grab an acoustic and if I really, really, want to practice, I'll pick up a classical. I really like the idea of an acoustic bass actually...


Like an upright, a-la Barenakedladies? Or more like a clasical guitar, but a bass??

-M

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Well I'm a big fan of upright (double) basses anyway. But I meant, as an acoustic guitar, but a bass. Watch Nirvana Unplugged to get an idea (or listen, it's a great album actually). They have a fantastically clean and powerful presence. Like a good acoustic guitar really in that sense. I just like acoustic instruments generally. Cellos, Violins, Classic/Acoustic Guitars, Pianos...

[Stu_Strib]

Dude, you are in for a long process. I've been looking into this for 2 months, and even flew to the States to see the gear in question (and pay realistic prices, unlike what they have here in Europe).

I started off thinking of doing what you are talking about...a room mic to capture the kit directly into my computer.

I have SM57, stand and mic cable (plenty of mic cables, since I used to work for a sound company). So I thought....well, I'll just get a bass drum mic and 2 overheads too.

My little project now looks like this:

Mics:
2 x condenser mics (no brand yet, still comparing prices)
1 x Shure Beta 52 kick mic (I get Shure products at cost)
1 x Shure SM 57 for snare

Now I need a way to get them into the computer:

Presonus makes 4 channel thingies that would work fine for $299, but for only $300 more I can get EIGHT channels in one unit (if I decide to mic toms later, or have the band plug in during practice for 8 channel recording)..

So there's about $1000 so far and I still don't have a computer and software.

Luckily I have a MacBook and GarageBand is free and worth the cost of the Mac for anyone interested in cheap home recording. The money I've saved from using GarageBand versus full-blown version of Live! or Pro-tools or whatever, is enough to buy my Firepod and my mics.

But I'll probably chicken out and just get a single XLR input and a large-diaphragm condenser mic ;-)

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

ok well instead of getting the digital multi track, i think i will start the long process of

buying mics, for live reasons. i think i'm going to start off with a shure 57, for a cheap

recording of the whole kit (i'll get condenser mics later on down the road) and then a kick mic

now, talking live for a moment, how does that work? what do they plug into? and is the

mic an actual microphone in that, sound will be coming from it (i.e. making it louder)

because it seems like they're only being used to capture sound, not produce it.

[pdp 9091]

Dude, you are in for a long process. I've been looking into this for 2 months, and even flew to the States to see the gear in question (and pay realistic prices, unlike what they have here in Europe).

I started off thinking of doing what you are talking about...a room mic to capture the kit directly into my computer.

I have SM57, stand and mic cable (plenty of mic cables, since I used to work for a sound company). So I thought....well, I'll just get a bass drum mic and 2 overheads too.

My little project now looks like this:

Mics:
2 x condenser mics (no brand yet, still comparing prices)
1 x Shure Beta 52 kick mic (I get Shure products at cost)
1 x Shure SM 57 for snare

Now I need a way to get them into the computer:

Presonus makes 4 channel thingies that would work fine for $299, but for only $300 more I can get EIGHT channels in one unit (if I decide to mic toms later, or have the band plug in during practice for 8 channel recording)..

So there's about $1000 so far and I still don't have a computer and software.

Luckily I have a MacBook and GarageBand is free and worth the cost of the Mac for anyone interested in cheap home recording. The money I've saved from using GarageBand versus full-blown version of Live! or Pro-tools or whatever, is enough to buy my Firepod and my mics.

But I'll probably chicken out and just get a single XLR input and a large-diaphragm condenser mic ;-)


Heres the one with 2 inputs for 300

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-FIREBOX-24bit96kHz-FireWire-Recording-System?sku=184133


Stu i also found this which is probably worth taking a look at. Its a PreSonus bundle pack with everything u need to get off the ground. RFUS you should take a look at this too.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-FIREPOD-Recording-Bundle?sku=241481

[pdp 9091]

Ok I collected all info that i needed on this thread and thanks to Stu I know what I need to record my kit.

-PreSonus FireStudio Firewire Recording Interface - $700

All Mics will plug into this Interface and with one input to spare! (maybe a hihat mic one day). Interface wired to my pc (interface includes software for audio adjusting and i have Audacity to layer aduio, ect...)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-Firestudio-26x26-Firewire-Recording-System?sku=241848

Nady DMK-7 Drum Mic Package - $180

I read all 27 reviews on these mics and even though they are low priced, mostly all people seemed to like them. 3 For my toms (rack tom, 2 floor toms) one for the snare, one for the kick, and 2 overheads (1 to pick up my ride and 20 inch crash near floor toms and one positioned right above my hats and right under my 2002 crash to pick up those)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-DMK7-Drum-Mic-Package?sku=277246

Live Wire Microphone Cables - $15 each X 7 = $105

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live-Wire-Microphone-Cable?sku=331174

Low Profile Die-Cast Mic Stand - $10

This will be used for my kick mic. Can be raised up to 13" high. Will be positioned right in front of my resonant bass head hole for mic to enter bass

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Musicians-Friend-Low-Profile-DieCast-Mic-Stand?sku=450832

Tripod Mic Stand with Boom - $20 each X 2 = $40

2 stands for my 2 overhead mics

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/OnStage-Stands-Tripod-Mic-Stand-with-Boom?sku=452061

Audix D-Vice Drum Microphone Clip - $25 each X 4 ~ $100

Clips onto rims of snare and toms to hold the Nady Mics

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Audix-DVice-Drum-Microphone-Clip?sku=270685

Grand Total: $1,134.68 USD

Someone please tell me if I am lacking something in my set up here.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

awesome research pdp... but there is no way i'm going to be able to shell out $700 for an

interface. are there any other more cost effective solutions?

[pdp 9091]

awesome research pdp... but there is no way i'm going to be able to shell out $700 for an

interface. are there any other more cost effective solutions?

I might consider buying this but DEFINATLY not all at once...lol....As you said i dont have 700 to dish out on an interface (at least right now). So for me this is going to be a time consuming long term project for me to save up and buy piece by piece. Christmas will help tho ...haha

But for cheaper solutions they have the smaller interfaces that have 2 inputs


go for about 200 USD

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-INSPIRE-1394-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=241483

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

But for cheaper solutions they have the smaller interfaces that have 2 inputs


go for about 200 USD

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-INSPIRE-1394-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=241483

you are awesome. thanks for that link. that does indeed look like what i will be purchasing.

i'm still curious about my question in post #28 though. thanks again pdp.

[pdp 9091]

you are awesome. thanks for that link. that does indeed look like what i will be purchasing.

i'm still curious about my question in post #28 though. thanks again pdp.


no prob. I dont know if i want to pay around 1000 to get all of that stuff or just get what you might get and hook up 1 kick mic and 1 over head. Do you guys think this would be a better bet for me (i just want to dabble in recording and im only 16) Do you think a 2 mic interface will be ok to record a kit as a whole and where would the mics be placed (1 in bass and 1 over head? 1 in bass 1 in front? ect...?)


EDIT** sorry radiofriendlyunitshifter i wouldnt be able to help you on your question in 28. I barley get the concept of what we're discussing now. I just know what you need to do what we want to accomplish....haha...Nutha will definatly know the answer to ure question

[iamtak]

what do they plug into?
They plug the mic's into a mic snake, its like a bundle of cables that will then run to the sound board/mixing board, whatever its called, which it then gonna run through some more electonic gadgetry (EQ'd, Compressors, Poweramps etc..) then then into speakers and then finally to the ears of the audience/band

and is the

mic an actual microphone in that, sound will be coming from it (i.e. making it louder)

because it seems like they're only being used to capture sound, not produce it.
Right, mic's = microphone. Mics produce a very low level signal, not enough to push a speaker, so they that signal has to be amplified by all the 'electronic gadgetry' that the soundman operates at which point it is then powerful enough to move a speaker.

Thats my understanding of all that

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

They plug the mic's into a mic snake, its like a bundle of cables that will then run to the sound board/mixing board, whatever its called, which it then gonna run through some more electonic gadgetry (EQ'd, Compressors, Poweramps etc..) then then into speakers and then finally to the ears of the audience/band

Right, mic's = microphone. Mics produce a very low level signal, not enough to push a speaker, so they that signal has to be amplified by all the 'electronic gadgetry' that the soundman operates at which point it is then powerful enough to move a speaker.

Thats my understanding of all that

ok. i understand this. good stuff.

for gigs would the aforementioned "snake", sound board/mixing board, and

more 'electronic gadgetry' be provided... i know speakers would be...

i would assume so if the soundman will be operating it.

thanks very much for the post.

[Fat Elvis]

ok. i understand this. good stuff.

for gigs would the aforementioned "snake", sound board/mixing board, and

more 'electronic gadgetry' be provided... i know speakers would be...

i would assume so if the soundman will be operating it.

thanks very much for the post.

your kick mic would be plugged into the mixing board of your PA (public address) system. This will then get levels and checked just as all instruments and vocals get checked through the PA. So instead of a guy at a mic saying "check one, check two" you kick your bass drum until the level is balanced. Mic'ing anything is basically the same process as vocals -- goes from mics, through mic cables, into a board to get balance and tweak tone, then through an amplifier and then finally to your speakers and monitors.

oh and pdp -- i dont see how buying 7 mics and an interface with 2 mic inputs will help you at all. You will need at least 7 inputs to capture your sound. Or you can get a board and dump everything into that and then buy an interface with two -- or even one input if you wish.

[pdp 9091]

oh and pdp -- i dont see how buying 7 mics and an interface with 2 mic inputs will help you at all. You will need at least 7 inputs to capture your sound. Or you can get a board and dump everything into that and then buy an interface with two -- or even one input if you wish.

haha....No im not buying a 2 mic input interface with 7 mics. If i were to get the Interface with 8 inputs i would have gotton the mic pack that has 7 mics. My question was since I am only 16 and just want to experiment in recording and everything do you think that it would be better for me to just buy a 2 input interface for 200 and then buy 2 mics. Then my question after that would be: what will those 2 mics be and where would they be placed to get the best sound. (2 overheads? ........1 bass 1 over head? ect....)

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

For the most basic setup, two overheads either in a standard configuration or an XY configuration will actually do the job fine. In fact, I've heard of it being used on high level recordings, I'm a big fan of simple mic setups, a big fan. Too many mics leads to huge problems like phase issues and awkward mixing boards.

[Fat Elvis]

haha....No im not buying a 2 mic input interface with 7 mics. If i were to get the Interface with 8 inputs i would have gotton the mic pack that has 7 mics. My question was since I am only 16 and just want to experiment in recording and everything do you think that it would be better for me to just buy a 2 input interface for 200 and then buy 2 mics. Then my question after that would be: what will those 2 mics be and where would they be placed to get the best sound. (2 overheads? ........1 bass 1 over head? ect....)

yes my feeling with the two mic set up would be one good kick mic and a good condensor overhead mic placed directly above the player -- possibly slightly forward. Personally for the mics, i would buy:

Audix D-6 Kick Mic for $199
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Audix-D6-Sub-Impulse-Kick-Microphone?sku=270641

Audux F-15 Condensor for 109
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Audix-Fusion-15-Mic?sku=270282

both have excellent sound and are a great value.

[pdp 9091]

yes my feeling with the two mic set up would be one good kick mic and a good condensor overhead mic placed directly above the player -- possibly slightly forward. Personally for the mics, i would buy:

Audix D-6 Kick Mic for $199
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Audix-D6-Sub-Impulse-Kick-Microphone?sku=270641

Audux F-15 Condensor for 109
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Audix-Fusion-15-Mic?sku=270282

both have excellent sound and are a great value.


thanks for the info. Do u think if i do what MFB says itll work just as good or will the over head mics not pick up the bass as good?

[Spacehog]

You can get decent kick sound from just a pair of overheads (I use Rode NT1A's, which are excellent, btw), but you'll need a big-ish room as to get the best all round sound, you really want the mics 3' or so in front of the kick drum, and 6' or more in the air. You'll certainly get a satisfying sound this way. Personally, I prefer to use four mics when recording a kit (2 overheads, kick and snare) or even more, depending on the project. Last week I was recording and I multi-mic'd everything (SM57 on each tom, Beta57 on snare top, AKG C418 on snare bottom, D112 inside kick, Beta58 outside kick, Beyer Opus 53's on ride and hihats, NT1A's as overheads) to give me optimum flexibility when mixing, but then I have a 26 input audio interface :)

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

thanks for the info. Do u think if i do what MFB says itll work just as good or will the over head mics not pick up the bass as good?

I'll admit having a kick mic is better if bass pickup is what you want. But if you listen to the bass drum, it's a very powerful sound. As a basic means, if you want a stereo image then having two overheads would be a better solution. If you rely on specific bass drum sounds, by all means, one overhead, one bass. Overheads generally pick up the whole kit well, if placed a little higher than would otherwise normally be the case if you were using more mics.

I'm just a big fan of keeping it really simple. I've had problems recording a five piece kit with each of the toms miced, bass and overheads (no snare) before and it put me RIGHT off complicated microphone layouts.

[pdp 9091]

I'll admit having a kick mic is better if bass pickup is what you want. But if you listen to the bass drum, it's a very powerful sound. As a basic means, if you want a stereo image then having two overheads would be a better solution. If you rely on specific bass drum sounds, by all means, one overhead, one bass. Overheads generally pick up the whole kit well, if placed a little higher than would otherwise normally be the case if you were using more mics.

I'm just a big fan of keeping it really simple. I've had problems recording a five piece kit with each of the toms miced, bass and overheads (no snare) before and it put me RIGHT off complicated microphone layouts.


do you think if i put one mic over head (centered)....and then get a low profile boom stand and place the second mic in front of the kit about 5 feet back and about 1.5 feet high...would that work?

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

It depends on what kind of microphone it is. If it's a condensor, you'd probably be best overheading with both of them. If you've got a dynamic, use that for the kick. As a general rule you want to use condensors for overheads and dynamics for everything else (unless you have a PZM handy, for the kick).

[tmc]

Finn, you're getting me closer to putting Rodes on my 'must buy for college' list. Goddamit!


Hey MFB.

I have the same Rode NT1-A that finn has... It's pretty sweet. Definitely worth saving for... Awesome "room" sound for a great price IMO.

-Michael

[pdp 9091]

It depends on what kind of microphone it is. If it's a condensor, you'd probably be best overheading with both of them. If you've got a dynamic, use that for the kick. As a general rule you want to use condensors for overheads and dynamics for everything else (unless you have a PZM handy, for the kick).

Yes the overhead will be a condenser. Then i was thinking of putting a mic that can be used for lower frequencies (bass, floor toms,ect) in front of the kit.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Right, that'll do the job fine. For a rough recording you'd probably want an SM57, you can use that for everything reasonably (bass is OK, acceptable-ish) but it's an industry standard mic for a decent price. If you wanted a professional but relatively inexpensive large diaphragm dynamic, the AKG D112 is quite good. For intermediate, the Shure Beta 58 isn't bad.

TMC. Rodes are what they have at college, at least I saw one large diaphragm condensor there that might have been that model. My personal favourite I think was an AKG C2000 (?3000?) that I used at my previous school. Man that thing was sweet for piano and as a room mic.

Those 'red' microphones that are mentioned previously look pretty nice too. The price is right, that's for sure. I still lust after Audix D Series though... alas.

[pdp 9091]

MFB....I think i have my mics all set. Now im looking at interfaces. I found that most for 2 inputs are from 200-400 USD. Im looking to get this 2 input interface. Its made by Presonus. it goes for 200 USD. I read the reviews on it and they seem good

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-INSPIRE-1394-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=241483




But i came across this interface which is probably a piece of crap. Its 150 USD for 4 inputs. Just let me know what you think on this one

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-USB-MIDIsport-4x4-MIDI-Interface?sku=701106

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

your kick mic would be plugged into the mixing board of your PA (public address) system. This will then get levels and checked just as all instruments and vocals get checked through the PA. So instead of a guy at a mic saying "check one, check two" you kick your bass drum until the level is balanced. Mic'ing anything is basically the same process as vocals -- goes from mics, through mic cables, into a board to get balance and tweak tone, then through an amplifier and then finally to your speakers and monitors.


i see. would pa's be provided at a gig? or would that differ from venue to venue? and

what about the board, amp, speakers, and monitors?

after reading mfb's posts on less is better, i think i'm going to buy the two overhead mics

that you listed for pdp as well as the kick mic later down the road.

thanks to this thread, i have such a better understanding of mics and such, so thanks to

all of its contributors. a few more questions and i should be set.

i'm looking at this interface:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-INSPIRE-1394-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=241483

i think it's the same one that pdp is looking into as well. it only has two xlr inputs, so if i

was to buy a kick mic, i would have to upgrade.

aside from only having two inputs, is there anything that you see wrong with it. my only

worry is that it says on the presonus site that it has +48v phantom power, and on the

audix site it says "adds dimension and realism Condenser 9-52 volts phantom" for the

condenser mic you recommended. i don't know how to translate that really, but basically,

will the presonus interface give enough phantom power to get a good sound quality out of

the two overheads?

[pdp 9091]

after reading mfb's posts on less is better, i think i'm going to buy the two overhead mics

that you listed for pdp as well as the kick mic later down the road.

thanks to this thread, i have such a better understanding of mics and such, so thanks to

all of its contributors. a few more questions and i should be set.

i'm looking at this interface:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PreSonus-INSPIRE-1394-FireWire-Audio-Interface?sku=241483



hey radiofriendly....I have also learned alot from this thread thanks to fatelvis and MFB. As MFB has told me and of what i have read, that interface seems like a great choice. Presonus makes good stuff. The only problem with the interface though, since it runs on Firewire you're gonna need to install the plugs on your computer. They go for about 50 bucks or so and you just install it right into the tower of your pc.

[Sesh]

Hmm ('http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Package_Deals.html') Those are some great prices and if the performance is what you suggest, you might just be onto a winner there. You've got my attention.

MFB, as far as the red5 stuff - check out thishttp://www.red5audio.com/r5reviews.htm for reviews - by the look of your posts youre way above me in the technical knowledge so that shoul help. I just know they've been the easiest set to get a good sound from I've used - hardly any EQing, they just report what your kit sounds like straight back to the mixer, no fuss.

Martin

[Fat Elvis]

But i came across this interface which is probably a piece of crap. Its 150 USD for 4 inputs. Just let me know what you think on this one

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-USB-MIDIsport-4x4-MIDI-Interface?sku=701106


thats a MIDI interface. It wont do you much good. MIDI = digital music -- mics = analog