THE DRUM MICROPHONE / MICROPHONES THREAD [Archive] - DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

finnhiggins

07-25-2005, 09:28 PM

Hey, I've always had my own mics for amplification but I've just got a PowerBook and I want to record onto it... this is clearly not my field so any suggestions would be good... what do I need...

Thanks!

-Mario

Two options.

1) Use a mixer and a bunch of outboard gear and just present a stereo signal to the powerbook and record it. The bad option.

2) Buy a nice 8in/8out firewire audio unit (and possibly an external 8-channel preamp depending on what unit you buy), plug it into your powerbook and run something like DP, Logic, ProTools or Cubase to record each microphone as a separate audio track. Get a bunch of effect plugins and use them to add EQ, compression and reverb.

Voila, nice sounding drums either way. One way does it all in the physical realm with physical effects processors and the other way does it all in the digital realm. The reason the 2nd way is better in my opinion is that you can re-mix and tweak the individual sounds after recording and you don't have to commit to putting effects on a live take.

It's all pretty expensive though, I have to say. I'm the opposite of you, I have all the computer gear but lack the microphones and have to borrow them...

medeskisoul

07-25-2005, 10:50 PM

Hey, I've always had my own mics for amplification but I've just got a PowerBook and I want to record onto it... this is clearly not my field so any suggestions would be good... what do I need...

Thanks!

-Mario

OK I don't know exactly you would need, But I wanted to commend you on using a Powerbook (I take it the MAC powerbook?) to record with. THEY RULE!!!! You can do anything with those (MAC powerbook.)

OK just a MAC person getting all giddy over someone else using MACs for music purposes. :)

michaeldangelo

07-25-2005, 10:55 PM

Mario Vincent

07-25-2005, 11:54 PM

Thanks for the advice, I'll post some recordings if i ever get it all to work... and yeah, medeskisoul, PowerBooks rule, Mac is def the way to go...

Thanks...

-Mario

finnhiggins

07-26-2005, 02:32 AM

The easiest option is to get a pre-amp with as many channels as you need, and you can mix the mic's on the pre-amp and send that signal to the Powerbook as one stereo channel so you can mass mix the whole kit that way and add effects through whatever software you're using.

I think you'd need more than just a preamp outboard if you're looking for any serious quality with a large number of microphones. You'd really want a mixer with as many channels as you need for the microphones plus decent EQ on each channel - probably with at least a three-band with sweepable mids. Ideally you should route to compression as well, because you will want different settings on different microphones.

If you present a stereo mix to the computer there's very serious limits on what you can do to it afterwards. For example, it's quite nice to be able to give a bit of punch to a kick by putting in a highpass filter to take out the bottom octave (extra energy in the sound for no real audible effect) plus boosting the fundemental "Oomph" of the kick a bit. Then it's quite nice to notch out some of the boxy stuff around 800, plus boost the beater impact sound a little. But for a snare you'd want to approach things very differently, and on a stereo mix you don't have that ability to target individual EQ and compression settings to different drums. Reverb is usually alright on a stereo mix because you can restrict the frequency range so it doesn't muddy up your bassdrum too much, but unless you want to get seriously clever with multiband compression then you lose a lot of mixing flexibility by going to stereo before you've had an opportunity to do anything detailed.

Also by recording in stereo from 6-8 microphones you're making mixing decisions before you've been able to hear the performance, which can result in ruined takes because you realise the balance is just plain wrong and you can't fix it.

I'd really favour trying to find even a slightly lower quality way of getting all eight channels recorded separately into the computer rather than worrying about the quality of your preamp when you're going to kill a vast amount of your control by throwing away independent microphone channels before you even record. If there's a bit of noise or a less than perfect communication of the signal I'd suggest it is easier to clean that up with modern digital effects than it is to try to get a good drum sound from a muddy stereo mix.

michaeldangelo

07-26-2005, 05:26 AM

I don't think he wants to get that complicated. Hell, i get a great drum sound with one microphone, non preamped, running from the XLR cable to the computer. That's what I did my solo with. EQ'd some lows in on the software and I'm up and running.

A really good pre-amp will have some EQ settings on it, but pre-amps are intended to capture the real presence of the natural sound.

I know in the studio, all of the mics go to a mixing board, where everything can be edited, but it's still going to be one stereo signal in the end, UNLESS you do it separately, and that can be a nightmare when you get it into the software to put it together.

I know tons of professionals who just run only a pre-amp right into a laptop. They monitor the final mix with headphones with a soundcheck before initial recording. I don't know of any engineer who doesn't do that with an instrument with more than one microphone.

I think the days are gone when we try to capture the natural sound of instruments. Different pre-amps treat mic's differently for sure, but everything now a days is what you can do AFTER the signal is recorded. If you're recording in your house, I can see a reason for doing reverb and compression, but still.

The sound that you're looking for should be heard BEFORE you press the record button.

It's kind of like recording a symphony. No one in the world (except in the studio) would record each section individually. They usually use two mic's at the front of the stage into a preamp into a recording device, because wouldn't the symphony get it's balance and sound together anyway? And ironically, even though they record each section in the studio, most of the time, they hardly touch anything after recording. Recording each section brings out the clarity of each section, but balance and sound usually is great.

I think trying to get the true sound you're looking for going into the microphone is more challenging than putting all kinds of jarble into the signal after you're done with recording.

That's why there's 1 in 100 really great engineers out there.

Freddie Freeloader

07-26-2005, 09:13 AM

mike, you are right to a great extent, but that approach won't necessarily yield good results in all situations. there are many factors that contribute to the drum sound that range from the number of mics to the kind of room you are recording in. the mic>preamp>stereo singal into powerbook may work for simple demos, but if you want anything better, you'd have to do a little more.
if you are recording drums at home, take into consideration how cheap recording equipment is these days, and spend a little more and buy something that will really give you more flexibility. its just a question of a little more $$ thats all. for a half-decent drum sound, i'd say one mic on the bass, one on the snare and an overhead/room mic is all you need.
for as much as $300-$400 you can get a decent usb/firewire interface AND a good preamp (which needn't be necessary since many of these interfaces now have built-in preamps with phantom power too) and have all the flexibility you need. infact, i don't think its necessary to even invest in more than a little outboard gear since most recording (edit) SOFTWARE has some great effects and plugins that you can use.

Bernhard

07-26-2005, 01:20 PM

medeskisoul

07-26-2005, 01:51 PM

Yes - I'm happy now!!!!!

- So good indeep posts here from everybody
- Mike, thanks for participating
- Freddie is also an expert
- Medeski loves Macs - so do I

Happy posting (in reality I know a little bit about drums and drummers - what not mean I can play - but for sure I know nothing about recording. But with a little powerbook and a preamp with 4 mics and then garageband I made quite good demos for my 6 man Jazzband - even better as the final result in the studio!!!!

Bernhard

I DO LOVE MACs!!!!! Garage Band, Audacity, Pro- Tools and many more. With a few simple plug-ins and some pre-outs (right term?) and a friend who helps design MAC software, the possibilities are endless.

Current project with a MAC: taking an old MAC SE/ G4 lap top/ Nintendo keyboard and making a sampler/ trigger module. I need one more part and hopefully it will be finished. It has taken months of planning and procrastination to get this far. Let's see how long it takes me to finish it?

Brent W

07-28-2005, 05:16 AM

Recently I have been doing a lot of recording work at home. I run ProTools with a Digi001 unit. I have all the gear required to get good sound (reverb units, compressors, high quality pre-amps, mics), you name it. I have a large assortment of mics and the drum tracks sound fantastic...with one small exception. The snare drum! Which obviously is one of the most crucial sounds of a recording. For the majority of recording work I use a 13x5.5 Premier Artist Birch snare, which is a beautiful sounding snare. It has awesome crack and is very dynamically sensitive. I have tried about 10 different mics (Shure SM57, SM58, an Avlex mic specifically designed for snares, shot gun mic, and many different mics from drum kit mic package) and nothing is really measuring up to the recorded snare sound I desire. It seems as if my overhead condensors do most of the work as far as capturing the sound goes. I mean the tone of the snare drum is exactly the way it sounds when I'm playing on my on, which I like. But the snare mics I've used just haven't given the depth, warmth, and dynamic sensitivity I want. In other words, rim clicks and ghost notes are lost sometimes in the mix and rim shots always seem to clip out (and I am not a loud/hard player by any means). I have tried correcting this with condensors and preamps and equalizers...and nothing has solved the problem. I have also tried double, and even triple, micing the snare. But still nothing is really working for me.

Any help or suggestions on a suitable snare mic (or mics) would be great.

Thanks in advanced,
-Brent

aahznightsky

07-28-2005, 05:48 AM

if the shure isn't working, i think it may be you're placement and/or compression, etc you're using in recording, stuff like that

eddrummer05

07-28-2005, 06:04 AM

hey man i have a dvd where carter beauford its recording and he is using SM57 on snare and toms,, i have one and it works very good,i guess you have to equalize it to record...

god bless you...

Brent W

07-28-2005, 07:48 AM

I use equalization quite a bit. A 1.4 frequency tweak does the trick for most snares. But again, its not so much the tone and timbre of the drum. Most mics I have used on it do the snare justice in those departments. It is the dynamic response of the mics and the warmth factor. I was actually messing around with an Avlex mic a little while ago (which has similar specs to a 58) and with compression tweaks and mid range equalization tweaks. It is sounding a lot nicer. The mic itself is holding up well with the snare. I can actually here the articulation of the drum very clearly, and I managed to warm up the sound quite a bit with a vintage tube warmer plug in.

As far as placement, I am currently double micing the snare (batter and resonant side). Both mics are angled down towards the head and are about an inch away from the rims and about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch away from the batter head.

I think a lot of it is just really trying new things, I am recording a lot of different music compared to what I have in the past, so it has forced me to contemplate different things and has made me have different desires and expectations out of the snare sound.

Any more suggestions on mics? And anyone have any better methods of mic placement?

Thanks for your input so far, very much appreciated.
-Brent

finnhiggins

07-29-2005, 08:16 AM

As far as placement, I am currently double micing the snare (batter and resonant side). Both mics are angled down towards the head and are about an inch away from the rims and about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch away from the batter head.

I know this might sound like I'm being patronising, but you are putting one of those microphones out of phase with the other, right?

Stu_Strib

07-29-2005, 02:36 PM

I use an SM-57 on the snare live. The thing is a beast. I accidentally whack it now and then and it never misses a beat.

For recording, the last time, the engineer guy added another 57 with reversed phase to the snare side. Then in pro-tools, since it was its own track, I could mix the amount of snare buzz I wanted in. It was really cool, in that with two mics, I was able to use one snare drum for about 20 tracks, but make it sound different.

Stu

Brent W

07-29-2005, 05:31 PM

I know this might sound like I'm being patronising, but you are putting one of those microphones out of phase with the other, right?

Yes sir.

I have a question, seeing as the consensus is that the SM57s are the best for snares, does anyone know if they changed their design? The two that I have are probably more than 10 years old, but I was under the impression that they have not altered the design. Does the age of a microphone actually take an effect on anything? I checked the element and the electronics of the microphone and everything seems in tact.

Thanks again for your input, I am going to try to rent a brand new 57 to try it out against my old one.

-Brent

Superlow

07-29-2005, 07:52 PM

SM 57 is the standard tool for micing snares, however there are some killer AKG's out there. We played around with them on some of the tracks on our record. I spoke with an enigineer who recommends a 57 on top and a condenser mic on the bottom. I am no expert at recording, but I have work with some very talented individuals who are.

Stevis

07-30-2005, 10:55 PM

I agree with everyone, An SM-57 is an awsome mic, very high quality. I think to get that sound you'll have to play with the compression and Equalization frequencies.

Chilli

08-03-2005, 06:54 PM

Stevis

08-03-2005, 10:16 PM

.
What's your Budget?
.

finnhiggins

08-03-2005, 10:19 PM

Me and my band are going to start to record in my house so we are buying all the gear. Does anyone know about good drum Mics that are not to expensive? What about a good mixer and a Sound Card? I have money to spend in it but not that much. I was offered a Yamaha 16 channel Mixer for 400 $US, is that any good?

If you want multi-channel audio in for a PC you can't go far wrong with something like an M-Audio Delta 1010 or 1010LT (depending on what you're plugging in). If you just want to use a mixer to go down to a stereo pair and record in stereo you could get away with something like an M-Audio Audiophile 2496, but you won't get the same results.

I'm not really up on used prices of mixers in the US, but if you're just looking for a home recording setup I don't think you'll need a sixteen channel mixer - that is, assuming you want to do overdubbed takes. If you want to present the whole band then you'll either need to use a mixer to make sub-mixes and send it to the sound card as a reduced set of channels or you'll need two sound cards synched via word clock or SPDIF. If you do that you'll need to get seriously into the specifics of what's in your computer in order to make sure you have enough bandwidth available on the PCI bus for 16+ channels of digital audio at any given time.

What sound card you get dictates what you need in front for best results - for example, the Delta 1010 accepts standard jack connections but has no pre-amp, which means you need a dedicated 8-channel pre-amp or mixer in front of it to supply line-level sound. The 1010LT has two balanced inputs and six RCA inputs, and the balanced ones can be switched to Mic level using a jumper on the card - not very convenient as it requires taking your computer to pieces. So you'd need a configuration there that can send balanced where available (preferably at line level with a good pre-amp on the front again) or RCA when not (and use good quality RCA cabling, not flimsy ones that came with a Discman or something).

Try to work out exactly what your budget is, then try to buy pretty balanced stuff across your entire rig. There's no point in having $2,000 A/D convertor rack mount units if you are going to be using budget microphones, and likewise there's not a lot of point buying an amazing pre-amp if your sound card only accepts unbalanced RCA connections.

rendezvous_drummer

08-04-2005, 12:59 AM

Eurorack mixers are awesome, my band uses one and it hasnt done us wrong. had it for a year and a half. euroracks are the way to go.

Stevis

08-04-2005, 04:56 AM

Well depending on your budget, I'm going to assume it's somewhere around my G.A.S. recording setup. It's around $1000.00.

Mixer - Behringer Eurorack UB2442FX-PRO Mixer - $300
Ebay - around $250

PCI Interface - M-Audio Audiophile 192 PCI Interface - $180
-or-
PCI Interface - M-Audio Delta 1010LT PCI Digital Audio System - $200

Mics - Shure PG 6-Piece Drum Microphone Package - $400
Ebay - Also around $250
and a shure SM-57 isn't bad to have laying around - $90

plus money for cables and connection accesories.

Sums it all up to between $770 to around $1000 depending on your choices.

Chilli

08-04-2005, 06:52 AM

The thing is that I have a 5 toms, 1 snare, 2 bassdrums, 7cymbals set, and I would really like to be able to work ass much of them as a can into seperate channels. Thats without counting my 7 electric pads...

Stevis

08-05-2005, 02:40 AM

Well, with mics, for your toms you can double up with mics if you get a pack.

Edward

08-12-2005, 02:07 AM

Stevis

08-12-2005, 02:49 AM

if you let the store samash sponsor u...they'll give you $3000 in equipment a year!

that would be awsome! How would someone get a sponsorship there?

Edward

08-12-2005, 03:19 AM

that would be awsome! How would someone get a sponsorship there?call 1-800-4-sam-ash

NUTHA JASON

09-06-2005, 06:54 PM

i'm looking for overhead cymbal mics. No idle opinions please, i want responses from people who own or have used them extensively. i own an akg c1000s but i want something better. sometyhing that will rest in a cradle, perhaps two, one for each side of my kit.

thanks

j

jamndrummer

09-06-2005, 07:13 PM

Well, you didnt say what kind of money you had available to spend...but if that is not a issue. you might research and purchase Shure SM81's

drumofo

09-29-2005, 12:47 AM

Money is an issue so i found these products which i can afford. So are these product any good for drums? Suggestions?

Anduin

10-05-2005, 04:55 PM

The Rode NT5s are pretty good.

http://rodemic.com/?pagename=Products&product=NT5

onemat

10-05-2005, 05:22 PM

Well, you didnt say what kind of money you had available to spend...but if that is not a issue. you might research and purchase Shure SM81's

The SM81 Condensor mike has been widely copied. I've got one of those cheap Superlux Chinese made mike sets. The overheads look and SOUND like the Shure SM81s.

aspenleaf

10-05-2005, 06:09 PM

Have you considered using large diaphragm mics? When I worked in a studio, we often used U87s for overheads. Since I'm not wealthy, in my home studio I sometimes use MXL V69MEs or Studio Projects B1s as overheads. They don't have the hyped high end that some of the other inexpensive mics do, and the cymbals record nice and smooth without any harshness. I also have used a matched pair of Superlux SMK-H8K small diaphragm mics as overheads and they sound good as well.

Superlow

10-05-2005, 08:34 PM

A pair of stereo Neumans will do the trick quite nicely. Warm and open.

TjulesC

11-17-2005, 06:22 PM

hey all,

I have a tama rockstar kit. Here pretty soon i will need to get mics for big up coming shows, and if any of you great people can tell me what mics are the best for $200-500 range it would be most gracious of you.

jules

Stevesmithfan

12-01-2005, 03:36 PM

NO microphone in the world is going to bring your lifeless toms to full sound. You must get your toms in tune for the mics. Remember, microphones always pick up what they hear.
Check out musicians friend .com or other dot com online music stores for Drum mic package deals.
Good Luck.

Thinshells

12-01-2005, 03:40 PM

The problem with rockstars is that they are soft Phillippine mahogany. And if they are older, they could have some flat spots on the bearing edge. They lack attack and projection compared to other drums.

What you need is a drumhead with a bright initial attack, and a resonant head that will sustain for a long time. This won't make the drum sustain as well as higher quality drums, but it will be *much* better than a medium or other cheap resonant head.

For a lifeless tom, get something like attack double thin, with evans black (thin) reso. That will wake the toms up dramatically with "attack",
and enhance sustain. Attack heads have the bright initial attack and a touch extra loudness over other 2-ply heads. The evans resos hold the sustain wide open.

Wegadrummer

12-07-2005, 04:48 PM

God day fellow drumfriend..

i have a problem, somebody stole my drumics on our last gig, so now i have to buy new one..
Have anybody tried the Shure PGDMK4 pack? And are they any good? I dont need Superpro mic, just somebody with a decent sound..

Wega

toeKNEE

12-16-2005, 04:10 PM

any good ???

i have a F-12 kick mic and it works alright (got it on a deal, that’s the only reason I only have one)

but i have only recorded with it once (on a djembe - it sounded ok but there were allot of over heads in the mix too)

im planning on pickin up a couple more Audix (maybe a D4 for the toms - or F-10's) and im not sure what kind for the snare yet (i have a couple steel/ brass /aluminum /wood) so if im stuck with one mic to work with i want it to be the best i cant afford (but at the sane time not limit me)

i just want to know your opinions on the audix F-series mics (are they ok - should i not waste my time) that sort of thing

thanks DW (im kinda new here)

sir_wagner

12-18-2005, 02:08 PM

hey...

i know it's not what you asked...but i can really recommend the set from stagg...it's about 220€ for 7 mics and it's sound is simply incredible...the case is nice too, but that shouldn't be a criteria! you should IMO really consider buying those if you need good quality mics for a reasonable amount of cash!!

so long

Phil(thy)

Phaedrus

01-05-2006, 10:51 AM

Hi All,

Thanks for reading this post.

DW website lists kits for mounting mics inside drums. This seems like a great idea. Do any of you guys do it? Can anyone offer any tips/advice on it? What's the way to go when mounting the brackets? What are the pros & cons?

As I understand it:

PROS:

Ease of rigging - mics already set-up
No bleed from other drums/instruments - no feedback, keeps PA subs clear, specially in an aux-fed subs rig

CONS:

Possible extra drilling of shells?
Possible unwanted noise if mic mounting bracket not isolated (rubber washers/grommets?)?
Possible tendency of boomier drum sound?
Mic cables trailing from drums?

I play bass (please don't kick me out - I wish I could drum, and I actually tend to listen to drums in music before I listen to any other instrument) in a rock covers band, and have joined here on behalf of my drummer - he's not really a surfer.

Thanks again,

Mark

RMS

01-05-2006, 12:07 PM

There are mics made specifically for the inside the drums, but I wouldn't think it would sound better than regular mic'ing, other than in the kick.

Having a complete front head on the bass drum pretty much requires a mic inside unless you get fancy with multiple mics pointed at both heads, or you're playing jazz.

The kick drum is big enough where you can use a wireless system, and the power adaptor would probably be small enough to fit through the vent hole. Unfortunatly I don't think you can get a mic cable through your common drum unless you do some drilling, or you run a cable through the vent hole without it's end, and reattach the mic connecter to the bare wire.
You would use existing hardware to integrate the mounting system, which you can find with a search (and it would probably have shock-absorbtion).

I'm assuming that your drummer has some sort of muffling on his bass drum (most do, be it pillows or heads). This should prevent the sound from getting too boomy.

Neil Peart and Dave Weckl are amoung the drummers that play with front heads on their bass drums, and use mics inside them.

The big downside to having a mic mounted inside your drum is that if it becomes loose or moves, you have to take a head off to re-adjust it.
But it eliminates a possible tripping hazard out in front of the kit (as if we don't have enough of those on stage), and it can make it easier for the sound guy, although he might need to mess around with the knobs a bit if he's never worked with inside micing before.

NUTHA JASON

01-05-2006, 01:48 PM

phaedrus asked me....
Anyway, we have a few questions about placing mics inside drums.

1. Does there need to be any isolation between the mounting bracket and the shell? From your pics, it looks like you don't. Does/could this allow unwanted pick-up by the mics?

it can cause constructive and/or destructive interferance as well as damage to cheaper mics. my mounting is actually isolated. the black bit is a rubber clip on strip that i have inverted and wired/taped to a bicycle spanner.

2. Where should the mic cable exit the shell? The 1/4" hole already in the shell needs to be kept free, doesn't it? Do you have to drill another hole?

the vent needs to remain free for propper funtioning of the drum. for my floot tom i was forced to drill a XLR sized hole and then i put in a countersunk female XLR jack into the shell. my tome were already drilled as they were from the generation of drums before float monting. so i used the exsisting hole which was (thankfully) almost XLR sized. these sunken XLR jacks anser your third question.

3. The point is that the mics stay permanently fixed in the shell - I assume this includes the mic cable being permanently being attached to the mic - how is this cable connected to the snake/mixer? Long dangling loop that's un-coiled for gigs

NUTHA JASON

01-05-2006, 01:55 PM

There are mics made specifically for the inside the drums, but I wouldn't think it would sound better than regular mic'ing, other than in the kick.

the company that nakes dedicated internal mics is called 'may mics'. an excellent product that uses the capsules of leading mic companies (AKG, Shure and Senheiser), but May mics are ludicrously expensive. the reason is that there are two other pitfalls or internal micing that the company over comes and i have to an extent overcome through trial error. these are:
slap sounds
a sharp spikey slap even from a nicely tuned floor tom folloed by the tone of the drum. terrible. sounds like and explosive click and hurts the ears.
tube sounds
can amply be demonstrated using a christmas paper wrapping inner tube. ask your mom to tak to you through it. here voice sounds all hollow. it makes a tom sound like a basket ball...not good.
both these are avoided by perfectly correctly placed quality mics, but this is where the difficultly arrives. as you muddle your way through placement you have to take a whole head of each time and retune. through trial and error i have found an angle of about 45 degrees to the head and a distance of three inches seems o work but this changes with the make of mic and diaphragm size sp be warned.

i will type more on this topic and include some pictures later.

j

nate

01-05-2006, 02:56 PM

Sounds like a terrible idea to me - you'd have to be super careful between gigs not to dislodge the mics inside the drums...and if you did you'd have to re-tune...

Also I image the sound from inside the drum is really different from the outside.

As far as the kick drum goes Bonham had no hole, he miced the beater side as well. He had quite a good sound, don’t you think.

Mics on stage are a little annoying, but not that much of a pain…a good sound guy can mic a kit in a matter of minutes and get a good sound. (it's there job)

This seems kinda over the top to me…but whatever works for some don’t work for others…(do many of the pros do this?)

(You’re a bass player right? Ok this explains things.).

NUTHA JASON

01-05-2006, 05:53 PM

you'd have to be super careful between gigs not to dislodge the mics inside the drums

not if you make the mounts strong enough. i also tape the mics in place.

Also I image the sound from inside the drum is really different from the outside.

that's tube sound but there are ways around it.

Mics on stage are a little annoying, but not that much of a pain…a good sound guy can mic a kit in a matter of minutes and get a good sound. (it's there job)

unless you don't have a sound guy...then its your job and mic set up and tear down can add a ver fiddley 20 minutes to your time.

…(do many of the pros do this?)

a lot of pros do have sound guys and roadies etc and so have no need to worry about anything other than showing up ready to play. that said i often find pictures of pro drum kits with maymics here and there if you know what to look for.

http://www.dwdrums.com/may/BETA52RF.jpghttp://www.dwdrums.com/may/D4RF.jpghttp://www.dwdrums.com/may/ND868RF.jpghttp://www.dwdrums.com/may/ATM25RF.jpg
http://www.dwdrums.com/may/D112BD.jpg
http://www.dwdrums.com/may/XL57SDRF.jpghttp://www.dwdrums.com/may/D112RF.jpghttp://www.dwdrums.com/may/e604SDRF.jpg

Phaedrus

01-09-2006, 03:06 PM

So the cons might be:

Wierd sound because we don't usually hear a drum from the inside - this can probably be eq'd/processed till it's closer to the usual sound?

Possible movement of mics, necessitating pain-in-the-@rse retuning, etc.

Has/does anyone use ported resonant heads on toms? Mics could then be mounted inside, and access would be available to reposition if necessary. It might produce a more traditional sound too?

Mark

NUTHA JASON

01-09-2006, 04:07 PM

Using ported reso heads on toms is not efficient as any hole on a reso head should be roughly less than ten percent of the toal surface area...any more and you may as well not have a reso because it won't make a sound. since the hole would need to be big enough for your hand it would be too big a hole for anything smaller than an 18'' floor tom. so the obvious solution is to set up without reso heads (a la phil collins).

j

ps: for more on ports (particularly bass drum ports) google the tuning bible.

RMS

01-10-2006, 08:44 AM

Yes, without reso heads then you would have accessability to the mics, but at the expense of your drum's sustain. That could be a good thing...depending on what you're after.

Vaibhav "Cross" Gadade

01-10-2006, 03:17 PM

i came accross pickups for drums the other day while surfing. yep, much like a guitar pickup. they seem to be a far better alternative than internal miking. dont know how it all sounds though.

check it out

http://www.b-band.com/drum-systems/

PIPER561

01-25-2006, 12:29 AM

I currently have two instrument microphones, and I want to know where to place them to record my drums as best as possible. I have a 6 piece mapex m-birch fusion set, with a 21" ride, 10"splash,15" crash, 16" crash, and 14"hi-hats.

where should I place my 2 mics for recording?

TitanSound

01-25-2006, 12:49 AM

I would say pointing diagonaly into the kit from about 4-5 feet away. This way you should get a decent enough, open sound.

It will never sound brilliant but I have been in the same situation before and if you put a little time into getting the mic placement right you can get a good recording given the circumstances.

PIPER561

01-25-2006, 01:22 AM

So if i put the mics diagnolly 4-5 away from the kit, how high up should the mics be?

RMS

01-25-2006, 06:16 AM

I would say use one mic for your bass drum, and the other for an overhead. It will be in mono, but I think it would sound better than two overheads.
If you decide you want to use two overheads, the easiest way to get a good sound is to put them both above your head, pointed opposite ways but with the tips almost touching.

http://www.musicstudiotechniques.com/cookbook/images/coincidentpair_t.jpg

This prevents phase problems which sometimes happen when mics are spaced apart.

Suds

02-06-2006, 09:03 PM

Hi, I was thinking of purchasing a Fostex MR8-HD, which allows four track simultaneous recording, to do some amateur recording of my kit.

I was wondering what would be the best four piece mic set-up to use? Most four piece kits I've been looking at have 3 snare/tom mics and 1 kick drum mic. I'm guessing having at least one overhead would be a better set-up?

I'm thinking of using either one kick, one snare, and two overheads. Or, one kick, one snare, one tom in between my two floor toms, and one overhead.

Does anyone have any suggestions about a four mic set-up like these? Are overheads also good for picking up toms?

Here are some pics of my kit, if that will help. http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7631
Also, i have some soundproofing foam behind, above and hanging in front of my kit.

Thanks for any help!
Suds

Stevesmithfan

02-06-2006, 09:11 PM

Here's a solo I did in my studio. If you have any questions about recording I can help.
Kick, Snare and 2 Overhead mics is all you need to start.
I have a Ludwig 6.5x14 Supraphonic as well. Actually my entire kit is all Ludwig.
http://www.soundclick.com/pro/view/01/default.cfm?bandid=259922&content=main&songid=0

Suds

02-06-2006, 10:14 PM

Ok, thanks. Looks like I'll be going with the two overheads, a snare, and a kick.

I love your solo. The sound is incredible. I take it you used more than four mikes to get that sound?

What do you recommend for mics in the $200-$300 range? I'm wondering if I should just get a six piece kit that comes with the two overheads. Then I will also have the two extra snare/tom mics If I ever need them. I have not found a four piece with the two overheads.
Maybe I should just buy them individually?

Thanks again!
Suds

jordanz

02-07-2006, 01:50 AM

Stevesmithfan

02-07-2006, 02:14 AM

I used a mic on each drum plus hi hats and 2 overheads. My recommendatio to you is to start with a 4 mic pac and add more mics later.
Samson makes great mic packages, I highly recommend them Good and P.M. anytime you have questions about recording.
Thanks for your compliments about my solo as well.

finnhiggins

02-07-2006, 02:18 AM

I would recommend buying just two microphones to start with - get two of the best cartoid condensers you can afford, they make such a difference. With a couple of good condensers you can get a long way towards a nice drum sound as long as your drums sound good on their own in the room.

The only thing that will be missing in the a big way is a bit of the snare drum top head tone and the low-end from the bass drum, so adding those microphones later once you can afford a Shure SM57 and an AKG D112 seems the smarter approach. That way you'll end up with some very usable live microphones too.

Most cheap drum microphone packages are pretty lacking, IMHO, and if you're just recording into a 4-track then you're not going to have the extensive EQ and dynamic processing available that makes close-miking a kit work.

So yes - best overheads you can afford, the rest later!

CraigG

02-07-2006, 03:33 AM

I gonna buy a few microphones to do some recording and was hoping to get a recommendation for a BD mic. I don't want to spend a fortune, but want something decent.

Currently, I'm considering the Shure Beta 52: http://www.music123.com/Shure-Beta-52-i63519.music

If the shure isn't doing the job any longer, I ran accross this info that might be helpful
http://www.sweetwater.com/support/summits/drum_recording.php

Stu_Strib

02-07-2006, 12:44 PM

I used to have a Beta 52...seemed great to me, but everyone dogged it in favor of the AKG D-112.

I dunno, any higher end from any brand will do better than the cheap Nadys and stuff like that.

Stu_Strib

02-07-2006, 12:51 PM

Hey Finn,

I have an sm57 for my snare and a D-112 for the kick. What good overheads should I get? I used to have 1 Shure SM-82, but two of them would be a bit spendy. Can 1 suffice for an overhead?

Stu

Stevesmithfan

02-07-2006, 01:12 PM

1 OH is good for now but I'd recommend 2 for the future. The 2 OH set up is great for stereo image of the cymbals and the ambieance of the kit mixed in with the closed mics. I highly recommend long term you go with 2 OH's'. I use Shure SM 81's for OH and Hi Hats.
Hope this helps/
Good Luck Stu.

jordanz

02-07-2006, 07:34 PM

Yeah, it will either be the Beta 52 or the D112. Anyone have a good comparison?

Beercan

02-07-2006, 08:06 PM

I have a Beta 52 and I'm quite happy with it. I don't have any personal experience, but I've heard that the old AKG's are the ones to go for- but if you're buying new, the quality currently coming from shure is better than that currently coming from AKG.

jordanz

02-07-2006, 11:19 PM

I ended up getting the Beta 52. Musician's Friend has a nice package: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270263

Loge

02-07-2006, 11:54 PM

The SM-81's are nice. I'm currently using two EV N/D408A's and the sound is transparent with nice presence and easy to mix.

tonys protege

02-16-2006, 07:15 PM

i have an akg c1000s condenser and a sure sm58. what is the best way to position them? i have the sm58 in the bass and c1000 over head and have been experimenting but was wondering if anyone could think of the best place to put the mics to get a good overall sound. thanks ben

Anduin

02-16-2006, 07:22 PM

I think you've got the right idea with one overhead and one in the bass drum. Aside from just trying whatever crazy ideas pop into your head, I suggest moving the the C1000 around to hear the difference. That doesn't mean just move it around overhead. Also try out in front of the kit, at the far end of the room, and maybe even down the hall (you may have to align the tracks if the two mic's are too far apart; check the waveforms for that step).

The other thing you can do is rent more mic's (and cables and stands etc.).

Dannar

02-16-2006, 11:23 PM

Recording with only two mics will really make it tough to get a good sound. Especially two different type of mics. If you are doing casual just for fun recording then it will work ok, but if you want to make something a little better quality more mics would be a must.

Usually if only two mics are available and they are the same type, usually two condenser mics, then they are placed out in front (not real far out in front though) and slightly above the drums at a angle towards the drum. The mics themselves are set up very close to each other and I recommend pointing them so they form a 90 degree angle, so one side is pointed towards the left of the drums and the other is pointed towards the right. By panning the mics to left and right you achieve a stereo sound, which is a must for any decent drum sound. My audio engineering teacher always says "mono sucks", and for drums that really true.

If your using a third mic for the kick, then the mics should be set up stereo style again, but placed above the drums, pointed down towards the drums. The reason for placing the mic out in front of the drums in the earlier example was to pick up the kick, but if you have it separately miced then over head is a must. From here you can add a mic on the snare, and from there high hat, and lastly toms (only if you can mic all of them).

If purchasing another condenser is a problem, then I would recommend the 58 on the kick and the AKG as a overhead, over the center of the drums, maybe about a foot or so above your head, to really pic up the whole picture. A 58 isn't really designed to be used on a kick drum, but it will do if your just doing something for fun. The Shure SM52 is a really cool kick drum mic, a little more expensive though. They also make a PG52, which is cheaper but I don't know how much cheaper.

I hope this helped, and let us know how it sounds!

stairway27

02-16-2006, 11:58 PM

Okay, here's my 2 cents. Having done a ton of recording both in pro studios and at home, if I had 2 mics, I'd place one in front of the drums about 3 feet away aimed at where the toms meet the kick drum. If you can, compress this mic. You'll get a good amount of kick drum without having to put a mic in the kick itself and you'll get a good amount of the mounted toms, plus cymbals.

Depending on how hard you hit your drums, the floor tom and snare won't be as prominent in what the main mic is picking up. So, put the other mic on the snare. Between the two, you should be able to get a decent, usable sound and you'll have the snare isolated for effects, if you use 'em. Alternatively, if you have a big room and leakage is not an issue, you could place one mic behind and above the kit pointing towards the snare drum and put the other mic on the kick. Again, compress the main mic, if possible, to help balance the kit. This will give you a more "Bonham-y" type sound and you can use the kick mic to add some "boom" to the main mic.

Also, since you have limited mics, don't be afraid to use EQ to help bring out different drums when using the one main mic. A little EQ in the right frequency can bring out the snare, toms, kick, etc.

Final comment, while I generally agree that recording drums in stereo produces a more "natural" sound, a lot of the early Zep stuff was mono drums and I doubt anyone can seriously say that the drums on the first two Zep records sucked. You'd be surprised how many great records had mono drums, even when stereo was the norm. A lot of Queen records have mono drums (guess they used all the other tracks for vocals and guitar!) and most people don't even notice it.

I think you just need to experiment with your 2 mics, your room, some compression and EQ and you'll be fine. Hope that helps.

lilblakdak

02-17-2006, 01:40 AM

Sairways response is right on. To get the stereo effect out of a mono setup is easy just mix the track down into two with one panned left and one panned right.

Dannar

02-17-2006, 01:54 AM

Sairways response is right on. To get the stereo effect out of a mono setup is easy just mix the track down into two with one panned left and one panned right.

If you pan the same thing to left and right, it's still mono, that doesn't make it stereo.

lilblakdak

02-17-2006, 01:57 AM

I know. it gives the effect of stereo because one track is to the left and one is to the right. True stereo is a different beast altogether.

Dannar

02-17-2006, 01:59 AM

I know. it gives the effect of stereo because one track is to the left and one is to the right. True stereo is a different beast altogether.

It actual makes no differnce. If it is in mono, it is the exact same thing coming out of both speakers, if you split that into to channels of the exact same thing, then pan on left and one right, it is still two channels of the exact same thing!

lilblakdak

02-17-2006, 02:06 AM

Dannar

02-17-2006, 02:20 AM

Having a stronger signal on through both speakers does not make it stereo, that would simply make it louder mono. Stereo involves separate/different sounds coming out of each speaker. For example if you point a stereo pair of microphones looking down at a drum set and pan them accordingly, then that is stereo. You can hear the high hat to your right, the ride to your left, the snare and kick fairly center, the toms going from left to right. Simply making something louder out of both channels in no way makes it stereo! I'll say it again, if you have the same thing coming out of both channels then it is mono, if you have one sounds coming out of one speaker and a different sound coming out of the other then that is stereo. There is no point in taking one track and copying it.

Oh, and David Copperfeild gives your brain a reason to be tricked by pretending to cut a girl in half. Copying a track doesn't even pretend to be stereo. That would be like Copperfeild taking a girl, standing her in plain view of the audience from head to toe, and saying "I just cut her in half". The crowd would not buy it for a second, because he has done nothing.

Another way to look at it is that Copperfiield takes a girl stands her in front of the crowd, then takes another girl that looks exactly like her, and standing them side by side and say, "I have now cut this girl in half and here are the two parts". (That one wasn't as good, but you get the point)

Simbe

02-17-2006, 02:35 AM

Once again, I know. Its an illusion of stereo. Its like David Copperfeild doesnt realy cut the girl in half he just tricks your brain into thinking he is. When its a complete mono channel the signal is split between two channels weakening it. When you double track and pan it, you have a stronger signal on both sides. Its not true stereo its just tricks your ears into thinking it is.

Why not use the volume knob instead? xD Doubling the mono signal (doubling the sound energy) is only going to give you a 3dB increase in the sensed loudness. It will not create any sensation of movement on the left--right axis, which is what stereo is all about.

The human ear can locate a sound source based on the time gap that results when the sound of a point source travels to your two ears that are ca. 17 cm apart from each other. The phase of the signal is slightly different between the ears. If you play two same mono signals that are in same phase in two speakers it is just as mono as the same signal played mono all the way, two speakers being the standard mostly everywhere today.

There are "faux stereo" techniques that use ie. comb filtering to divide the signal to two channels, but a good mono recording sounds way better than any artificially created stereo effect.
David Copperfield is not really a sound engineer of any kind...

Dannar

02-17-2006, 02:44 AM

Why not use the volume knob instead? xD Doubling the mono signal (doubling the sound energy) is only going to give you a 3dB increase in the sensed loudness. It will not create any sensation of movement on the left--right axis, which is what stereo is all about.

The human ear can locate a sound source based on the time gap that results when the sound of a point source travels to your two ears that are ca. 17 cm apart from each other. The phase of the signal is slightly different between the ears. If you play two same mono signals that are in same phase in two speakers it is just as mono as the same signal played mono all the way, two speakers being the standard mostly everywhere today.

There are "faux stereo" techniques that use ie. comb filtering to divide the signal to two channels, but a good mono recording sounds way better than any artificially created stereo effect.
David Copperfield is not really a sound engineer of any kind...

It's good to hear that I'm not the only one who knows what their talking about here!

el pollo diablo

02-17-2006, 08:29 AM

I feel you brotha. I too record with two mics. I have a Blue Kickball a little ways in the bass drum pointing toward the shell, and a Behringer B1 condenser for an overhead. It sounds pretttttyy darn good too. I only wish I had another B1 for stereo. With flat EQ on the overhead mic, everything comes out pretty balanced. I turn the lows up on the Kickball to about 100Hz though.. I'm still experimenting with getting the 'right' kick sound I want ( i think i'll have to invest in a Danmar patch for that 'click'). Also, try some muffling techniques if you arent already doing that... some towels in the bass drum.. . stuff like that.

OH YEAH! One thing i do.. I cover the front of the bass drum with a blanket to isolate the kick from the other mic and vice versa. It may not sound like it does much.. but it's a noticeable difference. To me at least. I just started the recording thing about two months ago and I'm learning everyday! Only problem is.. my band just moved into a practice studio 30 miles away so I have no drums to play on anymore!

Time for a Gretsch Catalina Club, eh?

Edit: I paid $120 for the Blue Kickball at Guitar Center (it's the red ball mic) and the Behringer B1 goes for about $100 everywhere. After trying to get the right sound out of my kit for the first two months with 4 mics (two overhead, snare and kick) I discovered that I could use the B1 to mic the drums..... and this all happened LAST WEEK. Great sound. I love it. G'bye!

Togg

02-17-2006, 01:09 PM

Here's what I would do.

Place the condenser mic at ear level just by your left ear making sure you don't hit it,that way you will pick up pretty much what you hear from the snare and toms, hihat will get caught by it well and frankly yudon't need to worry about that too much, just make sure you are happy with the snare sound.

Put the SM58 either about three feet infront of the kit low down at Bass drum height, try that out first, depending on how hard you hit the kick drum, you may need to put it somewhere else to get a good sound, possible on the batter side under the snare.

I would aviod putting it in the drum as that will really limit what you get out of it, it might produce a nice kick sound but you will get nothing else and with only two mics you need to get as much out of each as possible.

tonys protege

02-17-2006, 02:30 PM

wow, thanks for the response guys, sounds like you really know alot! the reason i'm only using 2 mics is cause i got a really basic desk that can only do 2 tracks simultaneously (hey, it was £100 off a mate and im only 16). it is the fostex mr8 if your wondering.
im going to try all the different methods and if i find one i really like will post some sounds up! any other suggestions are welcome. thanks again ben

Drummer Karl

02-17-2006, 10:19 PM

Ohhh, the good old days, I remember them...I had two micros, too and the position was: one as an overhead, one as a bass drum micro...

Karl

mjeffreys

02-17-2006, 11:20 PM

Dannar said... "My audio engineering teacher always says "mono sucks"..."

That is not true. Some of the best older recordings have drums in mono, panned a little to one side. Listen to Ray Charles records that were recorded 30-40 years ago. They BLOW AWAY the recordings going on in todays artificial world of the "products" of the recording industry. Remember... engineering is an art... and mono is a tool of an artist.

Maybe a mic in the bass drum and one overhead may sound nice. You could play with panning techniques to get a more intereting sound.

Dannar

02-18-2006, 12:05 AM

I should go into more detail over my "mono sucks" comment.

"Back in the day" all they had was mono. So since they could not record drums in stereo, they became good at getting a good drum sound out of mono recordings. When engineers became able to do stereo drum recordings, they did so. Hardly any stuck with mono, because if those engineers could get good mono sounds, they could get even better stereo sounds. If you compare the sounds of their mono work, to their stereo, in my opinion, the stereo work sounds much cooler. Plus, the drum sounds they were going after back then were nothing like the sounds every one is going after today. Back then most of the drum sets were jazz style drum sets, so they went for the jazz sound. As heard on many Ray Charles recordings. If your recording a traditional jazz album, you could use mono, but if your recording rock or funk, you don't want mono. You want a good stereo image. Plus no one today makes recordings that sound like the recordings of the 50's or 60's. If your goal is to recreate those recordings, then you could use mono, but it would still be hard to recreate that good of quality mono recordings. Even today most Jazz recordings have drums in stereo, and all rock or funk or anyother style use stereo too. It's a common practice for a reason, it works. If a artist today released a album where all the drums were mono, people would listen to it and go "what the hell is that!"

stairway27

02-18-2006, 06:24 PM

>>>>"If a artist today released a album where all the drums were mono, people would listen to it and go "what the hell is that!"

...it would be called "Rap" or "Hip-Hop". A lot of the loops and samples for that stuff is mono and, personally, I'd love to sell as many records as those guys do. No one who's buying those records seems to mind that fact that the main beats for a lot of that stuff is mono.

I think everyone has a valid point here. Is stereo better than mono? It's all relative. What's important is the feel and the song. The one thing I learned about engineering is that great engineering cannot improve a poor performance nor can it make a song better - period (and I'm not talking about Pro Tools engineering). Further, "bad" engineering won't necessarily ruin a good song or performance.

Ever hear the Van Halen story about how the engineer forgot to record one of Alex's kick drum mics for one of the songs on Van Halen 1? The only person who noticed it was Alex (I feel for you, bro, on that one), I doubt any of the millions of people that bought that record went "where's the other kick drum on this song?".

Bottom line, as long as whatever you're doing is right for the song and you're performing your best, just make sure the red light is on! If you don't record it, it won't matter if it's in mono or stereo...oh, and have fun! It's all good...

toolskid

02-18-2006, 07:58 PM

Recording with only two mics will really make it tough to get a good sound. Especially two different type of mics.

I'll have to politely disagree strongly with this! The most important factors in the capture of a decent drum recording are the player, the room, and the kit...

The mics that the original poster has to play with are really not that inspiring, but with decent front end you could achieve excellent results!

re: techniques, a simple mono overhead and kick mic can result in a surprisingly punchy full-toned sound as long as your phase relationship between the mics is solid (tiny movements can have dramatic results, so spend some time adjusting positions) and the factors mentioned previously have been addressed! Listen carefully to what each mic is giving you and see how small changes in position affect both the soloed sound of the mic and the relationship with the other! With other mics to play with, say a C12 and either a fet 47 or R-122, I'd be delighted (and have been) to work with just two mics!

With three mics you can go for the classic Glyn Johns technique with one mic front of kick one three stick lengths above the snare and one low pointing across the floor tom three stick lengths from the centre of the snare too! If you can try this with a great kit in a great room with a great player and three U67s in great condition, you're gonna be VERY VERY happy!!! Pan the two kit mics L and R and leave the kick in the middle! Obviously thats an ideal setup so substitute away and see what happens!

The most important consideration with minimal mic techniques is to balance all the elements of the kit yourself while playing EXACTLY as you wish it to be represented on the recording!

Don't beat yerself up over mono/stereo either Dannar, theres a LOT of contemporary recordings with mono or fundamentally mono drum recordings!!!

lilblakdak

02-18-2006, 08:43 PM

This is really gonna bug some of the super production guys, but if you what down the street and asked 100 peole to describe how the drums sound on any given album, they'll say "like drums" 99% of the time. Meaning the listening audience could care less about the drum sound, they just care about the song as a whole.

tonys protege

02-19-2006, 10:03 PM

hey, ive got some sounds im reasonably happy with but i'm getting so much bass drums through the overhead! i have a pacific cx kit so i have a 22X18 bass and then FAST size toms and a chad smith snare. it is a really loud bass drum and i was wondering if there were any tricks (blankets/mic positioning so not really tricks, more techniques) that i could use to reduce the amount of bass coming in the overhead.
thanks ben

lilblakdak

02-19-2006, 10:33 PM

If you like all the other sounds from your overhead, just throw a thick blanket over your kick. Or put a pillow inside it to tone it down a bit.

Nick Garland

03-02-2006, 05:48 PM

Hi, I am looking into getting some recording equipment to mic up my drum kit. I am studying music technology at A level so I have some idea of what is required.

My kit is a single bass durm, 4 toms and a snare, with 6 cymbals including hats. What would be the best way to mic it up 2 on snare, 2 over heads and one on bass drum, or just one on snare 2 overheads and one bass?

Also should I buy seperate mics of a drum mic kit?

I know for the bass drum I need a special bass mic for low frequencies but for the rest of the kit would condenser mics be fine?

Lastly at college we use AKG C2000 mics which are £100 each, would these be good mics to use for overheads and on the snare drum?

Thanks

Nick

Guinness

03-02-2006, 07:03 PM

Shure offers a quality drum mic set. I have the four piece set, but they offer a complete 6 piece set with 4 drum mics (1 bass drum - 3 snare/tom) and 2 condenser mics for cymbals, which should be more than enough for cymbals since being that a lot of cymbals wind up bleeding thru the vocal mics. I really need one more mic for my floor tom, but our board is pretty much maxed out anyways, so I'm making do for now. As far as quality, I think they are great.

Nick Garland

03-02-2006, 07:45 PM

Could you get a recording from them please?

Guinness

03-02-2006, 08:36 PM

I can probably have you something in a couple of weeks, we just purchased a Yamaha AW-2816 recorder. I'll send you a demo once we figure out how to use the thing. This sucker has one heck of a learning curve attached to it.

jbomber

03-05-2006, 01:22 AM

I have the SHURE 4-piece kit as well. I like it lot for my 6 piece. I use 1 on the snare, 1 between my 2 floor toms, 1 between my rack toms, and of course that beautiful kick drum mike. It's awesome. Haven't recorded seriously with the mikes, but they are awesome live. If I had the cash, I get individual mikes for each tom.
For overheads, I have 2 SHURE SM-57s, but only use them in larger settings or when we play outside. Inside small bars, my cymbals are loud enough.

Oh, BTW, if you have something like a floating-tom system (a la Ludwig's Vibraband), the clips included in the SHURE pack are a pain.

Good luck.

J

RMS

03-06-2006, 01:25 AM

Here's what you could get if you decide to go with seperate mics instead of a kit:

Samson Q-kick bass mic

Nady cm-88 condensors (for overheads and hi-hat)

The venerable SM57 (or equivelent) for everything else.

These are all very inexpensive microphones, but they will serve their purpose well.

Are you needing a mixer as well? And if you already have a mixer, how many inputs can you use? I'm sure you already know that condesor mics require phantom power.

I have made recordings using only the Samson and two Nady's, and it sounded good, albeit very acoustic jazzy-sounding. For more punchy stuff you should close mic your kit.

Bonzo_88

03-11-2006, 12:07 AM

I didnt really know where to post this thread so sorry if its in the wrong place. But basically ive got a live gig coming up in where in need to mic my drums and ive never doen it before. i was wondering if anyone with experience could help me with this.

My kit is a 10,12,14,16,20 yamaha stage custom advantage. i have zildjian zxt cymbals 14 hats, 16 crash, and 20 ride. zildjian a splash 10" and a 20" sabian paragon crash.

i really need this help soon cos the gig is on the 21st march.

rockitman

03-11-2006, 04:28 PM

Check this site, it may help you best. Micing is really all trial and error if you do not have any experience on your side. There are way too many nuances and techniques to get into to actually reply to your posting. Make sure your kit is well tuned or you will run into severe problems.

http://www.shure.com/selectionguides/sel-perfrecmics.html

Drums558

03-11-2006, 04:58 PM

Yea, we need more detail to help with this.
How many mic's do you have and what kind are they? How many channels on the mixer are available for your drums? Then we can talk room size and shape, etc..
Some gig's I just mic the kick, snare, and one overhead, bigger gig's I have a mic for all the tom's, kick, snare, hi-hat, ride, 2 overheads, and sometimes we use another mic up high and about 3 feet in front of the kit for a ambiant addition to the mix.
Usually just micing the kick, snare, and an overhead works very well.
Hope this gives you some ideas on where to start anyway.

Stu_Strib

03-11-2006, 08:22 PM

Yes more info please.

Here is the heirarchy of how I like to mic things (most important stuff first), all depending on available inputs for that gig and size of band, and all that stuff.

1 - Bass Drum mic. I've used just a bass drum mic more than any other microphone setup.

(adding mics)

2 - snare drum mic, positioned between hats and snare to pick up both

2b - one mic on snare and one mic near the hi hats (or as an overhead, see #3)

This is also a very common configuration for me with kick and snare/hats mic. Many times though, my gigs are small and the hat and snare needs little help.

3 - a single over head microphone is added to pickup toms and cymbals and ambiance of the kit. Note for small gigs (like jazz trios) this is sometimes the first setup (and only).

4 - two overheads

5 - big loud gigs, close mic on each tom tom. For my old gig that meant a lot of mics, a lot of cables and a lot of channels. Sometime it takes longer to set up mics than it does drums!

harryconway

03-11-2006, 09:10 PM

Stu is on top of his game here. Without knowing size of the venue, indoor, outdoor, your own P.A., who's running sound, keeping it as simple as you can is the best way to go if no one knows what they're doing.

finnhiggins

03-11-2006, 10:29 PM

I may have to disagree with Stu about the primacy of overheads on some gigs. I engineered on a gig for a friend last night for which we just used close mics - IMHO, most rock bands end up with way too much of the cymbals in the mix half the time anyway, so unless the room is fairly large overheads are often pretty inessential.

We ran last night with four microphones on the drums - one microphone each on the bass drum, snare and floor tom and one mic between the two mounted rack toms. The sound was actually pretty nice, all up. If the room had been larger then overheads might have been a good thing, but they have a nasty tendency to pick up all the foldback and other ambient stage noise and muddy things up.

In order to get a nice overhead sound you typically need condenser mics, and having two condensers sitting fairly wide open on stage when they're not 100% needed is not really best practice IMHO.

Stu_Strib

03-11-2006, 10:33 PM

I may have to disagree with Stu about the primacy of overheads on some gigs.

I have overhead usage pretty late in the primacy department. I'm not sure what the disagreement is?

I would suggest close micing on all toms as a last resort. Not for sound quality issues, just for logistical reasons. I find it much easier, and passable to run an "area" mic overhead for most gigs, before considering close micing.

Mind you, I love close mic'd drums the most. Just some gigs don't call for it (or most gigs, I would surmise).

lilblakdak

03-11-2006, 11:13 PM

I dont like overheads to hard to control feedback. I just use 1 kick, 1 snare, one between my rack toms 1 on my floortom. The hats and cymbals bleed through enough.

Stu_Strib

03-11-2006, 11:16 PM

Ok, I see where the overhead complaints are coming from.

Maybe not the best choice for loud/rock music, but great for accoustic/jazz/lighter music.

Yes they do pick up too much cymbal for loud music. But for lighter accoustic music, I prefer a single overhead for overall ambiance over individual close mics.

drumbig

03-11-2006, 11:47 PM

I dont like overheads to hard to control feedback. I just use 1 kick, 1 snare, one between my rack toms 1 on my floortom. The hats and cymbals bleed through enough.

IMHO this is ideal. At bigger venues I would mic the hats too.

finnhiggins

03-12-2006, 12:17 AM

I have overhead usage pretty late in the primacy department. I'm not sure what the disagreement is?

I would suggest close micing on all toms as a last resort. Not for sound quality issues, just for logistical reasons. I find it much easier, and passable to run an "area" mic overhead for most gigs, before considering close micing.

Mind you, I love close mic'd drums the most. Just some gigs don't call for it (or most gigs, I would surmise).

My primacy argument was really with you having overheads before close-micing the toms. That's great in a jazz context where the stage volume is pretty low, but for most rock/pop gigs I'd go close-miked long before I put overheads in. Cymbals carry just fine acoustically for the most part anyway.

I'd tend to add mics in this order, for a 5pc:

1) Bass drum
2) Snare drum
3) Floor tom
4) Mounted toms (one mic between two)
5) Mounted toms (one mic per drum)
6) Single overhead
7) Stereo overheads
8) Hi-hat mic. Not that I use this much.

I don't actually like hi-hat mics at all. I worked with a very good engineer once who basically told me that he only puts a mic on the hi-hat because if he doesn't then the drummers always go "Why aren't you miking my hats, man?". Generally speaking hats have plenty of cut and show up just fine anyway. I've not seen many drummers where their hats seem acoustically quiet from out front of the kit - generally it's the opposite, to be honest.

Dannar

03-12-2006, 12:30 AM

finnhiggins

03-12-2006, 12:34 AM

With toms I have always seen it as all or nothing. It don't think it makes since to just mic one tom. That would sound mighty strange (dum dum DUM) I would either mic all toms, or mic no toms. The one mic for two side my side toms I think is a good way to go if mic's are limited.

The only reason I would run a kick/snare/floortom rig would be just to help the low end carry from the floor tom out into the audience. You don't turn it up loud, you just give it a nice tight EQ so that you're just hearing the bass and mix it nice and low. Otherwise I tend to find you the the opposite to what you're describing through a mix: DUM Dum dum.

Stu_Strib

03-12-2006, 09:35 AM

There are all kinds of ways to mic stuff up for all kinds of different gigs. I was just trying to supply a common sense approach to achieving a good sound with progressively more gear. I.E., what is the most important sequence if you were to add one piece at a time. As usual with everything drumming, it is a tradeoff, and you have to find what is acceptible to you. Unfortunately, the venue and sound guy for that event will probably have more say than yourself. I usually try to get as much stuff as I can, because I think drum sound is very important, but not every "engineer" sees it that way.

My primacy argument was really with you having overheads before close-micing the toms. That's great in a jazz context where the stage volume is pretty low, b

Which is what I thought I said. Sorry if it weren't read that way.

My sequence was more of a logical, adding gear one piece at a time, as in if he added one mic at a time, what would he add. For me, close tom micing is always last (except for big loud gigs, like I said) because of the logistics.

A single overhead is fine (and maybe even better) for softer events.

As far as the Bass drum, snare drum and hi-hat mic in 2b, that is just to emphasis the importantness of those three elements of a kit. They are the three most used, so why not be the first to be micd, if you are on a mic budget, or not enough inputs?

I don't like "close" micing of hi-hats, but a nice condensor mic over in that area acts more like an over head for the hats and percussion elements (mostly the tamborine) I mount over there. I wouldn't use a mic hat on a simple 4 piece setup, rather a mic pointed at both the hat and the snare (losing seperation capabilities, but easier logistics).

If you are going to close mic toms, I really dislike putting one between two toms, because then you lose the ability to control the output level and mix it with the other mics.

As far as no overheads because the cymbals bleed through the other mics misses the point. First of all, high quality directional close tom mics pick up very little cymbal. Secondly, if you overhead the kit, you can adjust the overall ambiance of the kit, and have enough control and seperation for the cymbals that you can mix the cymbal volume in wiht the other instruments. This is why I don't like an "area" mic on toms, because you don't have the separation capability.

Bonzo_88

03-12-2006, 10:06 PM

hey. tahnks for all the info, the site, and stu were very helpfull. sadly im not sure what mics they are as the place where the gig is giving them to us for the gig. but thanks anyway. if i get more info ill post it. for now its a relatively small close cieling room. like a small pub.
cheers!
chris

matt986

03-12-2006, 10:45 PM

Just to expand on some of the mics and ideas:

Bass Drum: Crucial for rock. Not only does the crowd need it, but your fellow musicians will thank you when they hear this comming back through the monitor. I recomend the mic in the bottom corner of the fron head, about the 5 o'clock position. If there's a hole in the bass drum, put the mic in or right in front of the hole. If there is no hole, close to the head of the drum but make sure the head will not touch the mic when you hit it. Experiment with diferent positions to find the best sound.

Snare: A few ways to do this one. Going between the hi-hat and snare is a great choice, seeing as it will easily pick up the snare and your hats. However, if you want a deeper sound to your snare, or you notice the depth you normally have isnt there, but the mic UNDERNEATH the snare drum as opposed to on top. This will pick up more depth from the ressonant head. You can put it underneath between the hi hats and snare too.

Toms: For toms, again I usually put the mic underneath the tome for two reasons. Number one, the mic clamp doesnt get in the way. A stray hit during a role can be devestating to the mic and the audiences ears. Second, putting the mic on the bottom gets more out of the resonant heads, giving you more sound from the drum through the PA. If you dont want as much ring or overtones, then by all means put the mics on top. Both setups sound great, they just sound different. As usual, experience for best results.

Overheads: These can be crucial if used correctly. If you have loud cymbals (the zxt's are pretty loud) either ditch the overhead for rock completely or have it very very low in the mix. Too much from the cymbals will mask the rest of your drums. Thats a bad thing. Instead of using overheads, I do the following (most of the time),

On the left side of my kit sit my ride, next to that my hi hat, and above them, a 14" china and a 16" crash. I position a mic between my ride and my hi-hat, that way the bell is picked up niceley. The crash and china bleed through enough on the tom and snare mic. Furthermore, chinas are much louder to the ear, so to speak, so they jump out more.

On the other side sit my 18" crash, 14" crash, and 22" china. I place a mic above the 18" and 14" crashes (they sit right next to eachother). The 22" china is way too loud to mic, so I get the mics as far away as possible so as not to pick up too much of the china (some bleed through is inevitable though).

Of course, if you are short mics, ditch the cymbal mics. The crashes bleed through enough as is.

Hope this helps,

-Matt

jollymosher

03-22-2006, 01:45 AM

i need bass drum mics,tom, snare and over heads please send links of good mics.

tmc

03-23-2006, 06:44 PM

Hey jollymosher.

www.shure.com

-Michael

jordanz

03-23-2006, 10:28 PM

I bought this package - it's an incredible deal, I think:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270263

These are great mics. Then, the only choice is overheads. I'm using a pair of AKG 1000s.

TopCat

03-27-2006, 06:01 PM

tmc

03-27-2006, 08:37 PM

hey,

I'm joining a band with some experienced players who have booked recording time in april. I know nothing about good mic's and have no studio/recording experience. I want to buy a decent mic set, that would suit a 5 piec with hats, ride, 3x crash, 2x china + splash.

If someone could point out to me whats necessary/whats not necessary etc or make any suggestions, it would be a great help.

Hey Topcat.

Most of the bigger mic companies (Shure (www.shure.com), Sennheiser (www.sennheiser.com), etc.) make drumset packages. For example, Shure has a couple of packages with different mics/numbers of mics. The main difference in their kits is that one uses plastic housing for the mics (PG-series) and the other (SM and Beta I think - more expensive) uses metal. The metal-housed mics would be best for gigging, IMHO, as they would necessarily suffer more abuse then studio mics if only for the fact that they would need to be moved around a lot.

Instead of a package (which I find doesn't save you much cash) that kind of locks you into one brand, you can simply build up your own selection. In fact, depending on the venues you'll be working, you may be able to start small (overheads and a kick, and maybe a snare mic) and pick up extras as needed.

Another thing to remember is that all of the mics need to plug in somewhere. More mics mean more cables, larger mixers, more cash, etc. Personally, I'd rather buy a few great mics than a ton of crappy ones.

Good luck...

-Michael
NP: 30 Seconds to Mars - 30 Seconds to Mars (with Shannon Leto on drums).

RMS

03-28-2006, 06:07 AM

Even a modest studio should have its own mics...get with the engineer and see what they have. You probably know that different drums call for different types of microphones, the two main types being dynamic and condenser. So I guess just make sure that the engineer or whoever is doing the recording sounds like they know what they are doing, then you don't have to worry about it. It's not your job, but it's nice to know some stuff which I see you are trying to do.

The one thing that affects the sound more than anything (besides the instruments themselves, of course) is the room you are in. If you can help it, don't record in a room if your drums don't sound good by themselves in that room. Of course you may not be able to do anything about it.

Also I noticed you plan on using three crashes and two chinas. It would probably help the recording to use as little as possible, if you don't have to use all of them. Use your smaller, thinner crashes, they tend to record better.

Good Luck!

TopCat

03-28-2006, 11:06 AM

Thanks alot for your suggestions and tips about cymbals + where to record, really appreciated.

I was looking through some sites for packages + individual mics. a couple of thigs that were of interest -

http://www.dv247.com/invt/20966/

http://www.dv247.com/invt/10833/

However, i probably wont go for a full set, Just a kick, snare + 2 overheads to begin with. Could anyone suggest some decent mics for those purposes?

RMS

03-30-2006, 08:23 PM

That AKG D112 bass mic is preferred by a lot of pro drummers and engineers. So you can't go wrong there. Go with a Shure SM57 for the snare, it's another tried and true mic. Find a pair of large diaghram condensers on sale for overheads. That is, if you want the overheads to pick up the toms, too. If you plan on getting more mics in the future then you could go with small diaphram condensers, these will be better suited for only cymbals. You could also put one on the hi-hat.

You can get a great sound out of four mic's. I've made recordings with only three mics, a bass mic and two condenser overheads. I used the most affordable mics and mixer I could find (Samson Q-kick, Nady CM-88's, Behringer 1002) but you can hear everything ok. The snare is tuned high so it is still prominent even though it's not close-mic'ed: :http://www.youtube.com/w/Ryan%27s-Mo...?v=dkpexifMY9M

I ran the mix into a camcorder that didn't have the proper inputs, so it would have sounded fuller, louder, and all around better if I had ran it into an audio recorder of any kind.

So if you get three mics: that D112, and two nice overheads, you will be in business.

WeatherKing

03-30-2006, 11:16 PM

TopCat,

I'm just about to buy some mics too and have been trying to do as much research as possible. I'm not recording with any band but I've been setting things up in my basement to do some recordings. Some of the threads here have talked about the Nady mic packs, CAD mic packs, and Samson, Shure, etc. so I'm sure you'll get better advice from what limited knowledge I have of them too. I'm still learning....

For under $200 you can get several mics from Nady or Cad. I'm looking at the Nady after most reviews from Musiciansfriend had slightly better quality. there were a few more negative comments on the Cad pack. I've heard a few samples from other drummers here, I think Scott was one who used the Nady package and his clips sounded great. I agree from below that the AKG112 for kick and Shure SM57 for the snare are really the way to go. I picked up an AKG off of Ebay and will likely get a Shure for the snare soon. I'm thinking of using the kick mic in the package for the floor tom. Scott said it worked pretty good. I know others here don't care for the low quality of some of these mics but for what I'm doing, I can't break the bank and I'm not picky...at least until I can spend more $. I've trended towards the Nady because of the extra mics (7). But there are packs of 3 or 4 if that's all you'd like.

Here's the link...I was just looking at it before checking out this thread. But you can search for Cad and others too.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=277246

Like another said below, we still need drum clips, cables, etc. along with a mixer. I've had one on layaway at the local store for a while but you can search Ebay for some boards too. I actually found a bigger board for less at the local store than what was on Ebay so just check everything out before buying.

Well, I'm rambling a bit and I need to get back to work....hope this helps in some way!

Cheers!

jordanz

03-31-2006, 12:16 AM

I think this is the best deal going:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live/Sound/Microphones/Wireless?sku=270263

These are pro-quality mikes. The price is right and you get the drum clips, basically, for free.

TopCat

03-31-2006, 02:07 AM

Wow, thanks for all your helpful suggestions. I think im going to go for RMS' and tmc's sugegstions with the three/four mic layout. I go into the studio on friday. I 'officially' became a member today. Recording three tracks. Had one practice. Code red.

WeatherKing

03-31-2006, 11:46 AM

Yeah, good choice. If I were doing studio work, I would lean towards the better quality of Shure, especially for kick and snare. I bit the bullet and bought the cheaper CAD mic package last night. I changed my mind seeing that they had the clips included and I could save a few bucks that way....I'm such a cheapskate! hehe.

Anyways, be sure to post some clips of the studio session if you can. I'd love to hear how those drums sound! Good luck and have fun!!

harryconway

03-31-2006, 12:02 PM

Carvin makes a really nice kick drum mic and it's under $100. Once you own a good mic for the kick you should be able to "beg, borrow or steal" everything else.

hatebreed

04-18-2006, 07:19 PM

tmc

04-24-2006, 02:53 AM

I want to get a bass drum mic so i can be heard over my band. I know i have to get a mixer or pa to run the mic through and a speaker for it to play through. I have no ideo what to buy and i only have a budget of around $275. Can someone reccommend a mixer and a speaker or speakers to run it all through. Nothing too complicated as i am new to the technical side of drumming. Also a mixer with enough inputs to set up a full kit of mics would be handy as i will probably be wanting to expand within this year. Thanks in advance for any help given.

Dude(tte)!

I doubt that you'd get a mixer for that much, let alone a mic and some speakers, too. A decent kick mic will take all of that budget, and good mixers with a large number of inputs (you can easily use a dozen mics on a good-sized kit) seem to be very pricey. I just got a quote this afternoon for a british mixer with 16-inputs and it was $1,750 Canadian.

You could probably go with some less-expensive Chinese mics and mixer, but I'm not sure the quality (sound-wise and ruggedness) will be what you need... or if it will even come within that budget. Good luck, though.

-Michael

lilblakdak

04-24-2006, 04:30 PM

$275. Spend it on good heads and tell your guitarist to turn the "F" down.

Audun_D

04-29-2006, 08:30 PM

Hi everyone! I need some drum mics for my Pacific LX kit. I was looking at some Shure mics and they seem kind of expencive. I really need 5 mics + 2 cymbal mics. Any suggestions? I got 350$ to spend. All suggestions would be apreciated:D But be serious I'm not loaded... :P

Audun_D

04-30-2006, 12:54 PM

Anyone? :( No opinions on this subject? :(

wondering

04-30-2006, 01:08 PM

mmm

350$ is not enough to get real quality drum mic.
But let me advise you what i would buy for this price.
First The snare : of course you need a good one. The best price/quality is the Shure sm57 ( which costs 100$ I believe ). You won't find better on this price range. this mic is dynamic.
For the cymbals, you need a electrostatic pair. Some cheap and not too bad are these ones
http://www.musicstorekoeln.de/fr/Percussions/10_2_G_0_DRU0010090-000/0/0/0/detail/musicstore.html
So here we're at 150$ ( approx )
For the bass drum buying you must buy a not too cheap one;
I advise this one :
http://fr.audiofanzine.com/produits/index,idproduit,15431,mao,shure_pg52.html
The total ups too 280 $

For the toms, Fame makes good cheap cardioid mic. If you have Music store catalog, search in, you ll find some at 30 $
http://www.musicstorekoeln.de/fr/Percussions/10_2_G_0_DRU0010089-000/0/0/0/detail/images/artikel/medium/dru/DRU0010089-000.jpg
( like those 4 )

Hope i ve helped you

IDDrummer

04-30-2006, 06:11 PM

The previous poster probably as good advice as any - it will be very hard to get good microphones for $350. I just spent $200 just for my bass drum mic, and that was a pretty good buy...

squashki

04-30-2006, 06:23 PM

You can record a drumkit in good quality with only a bass drum mic and two condenser mics. For example:

For the two condenser mics a good matched pair like a pair of MXL 603s: (these get the cymbals and the majority of the rest of the kit)
http://www.instrumentpro.co.uk/P-MXL603PAIR.html?PHPSESSID=352d6863ea79f794d73edaaf a2771766

And a great kick mic is the shure beta 52A:
http://www.dv247.com/invt/3020?source=google&campaign=uk&ad=3020

And depending on what quality you want, you can buy an SM57 like the guy above said for the snare, individual tom mics are not really necessary for a good overall drum sound. Check out this (http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=39030) thread at homerecording.com for mic placement technique, using this will mean you can use these mics to get a really good sound without spending loads.

Audun_D

04-30-2006, 08:29 PM

Thanx everyone for all of the tips you have given me, appreciate it!

IronSabbath

05-15-2006, 02:28 AM

I dont know if this is the right place, but here is my question.
I just got into a band, and we havent played shows yet. This question is for people who play live in small club venues. Do the sound people help mic the kit? Because I know they provide the pa and mics, but I never used drum mics and I would want the best sound possible. I was just wondering how that kinda stuff is live. thanx

Class A Drummer

05-15-2006, 02:31 AM

Im pretty sure there are already threads on this type of thing. Do a search under other gear and you should find stuff that will help you out.

Btw, i know nothing about mics. id help if i cud. Im also trying to learn about this stuff.

IDDrummer

05-15-2006, 07:10 AM

Really depends on the bar/club. I've come across quite a few where the sound man really didn't have a clue, as far as I was concerned, especially in smaller places. A lot of them do not want to deal with any drum that has more resonance than a cardboard box. In such a place, I would rather have them mic only the bass and snare.

The better clubs often have really good equipment and personel. It pays to learn all you can about mics, placement, gating and EQing, so if you play in a place with house sound, talk with the techs and pick their brains.

harryconway

05-15-2006, 07:48 AM

Lots of small clubs I've played, the P.A. is so strapped for power all you wanna do is pump the vocals thru it. Let the drums and guitars and drums set their own volume levels. Better situations might give you kick and snare mics, maybe 2 overheads. All depends on the gig. Are you playing 3 or 4 sets (all night) or just 1 (1hour slot). If you're just playin' an hour, you need to get on the stage, fire it up, and get off. Your first song is the sound check. Always best to go to the club you're gonna be playin' a week before the gig, just to see what the situation is. Do they have a soundman, or does the bartender take care of that too? Do they have mics there? Does the mixer have all channels working? Oh man, after a while, you'll think you've seen everything, and then something new happens. It's all cool. Have fun.

TitanSound

05-23-2006, 11:53 PM

Hi all,

Have seen these mics:

http://www.behringer.com/C-2/index.cfm?lang=ENG

And would like to get your input on them. They are very cheap here in the UK at only £40. I would imagine they will not be the highest quality but would they do as a couple of cheap overheads for self recording?

Any input is appreciated!

TitanSound

05-25-2006, 06:37 PM

*BUMP!*

Need some opinions guys as I will going to get them tomorrow after work if they are worth it :)

Mediocrefunkybeat

05-25-2006, 06:48 PM

In short: not sure. Behringer have some interesting marketing and production techniques. It basically consists of them taking everybody else's ideas and producing the same product for cheaper. This means they don't really have to have an R&D department.

In principle, I can't see anything actually wrong with those microphones per se. Usually Behringer produces a very good product for the money (for the reason stipulated above) so they should be ok. I've never had any personal experience with these microphones, however. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

TitanSound

05-25-2006, 06:53 PM

Yeah I remember our conversation before I bought that 1832FX-PRO mixer (http://www.behringer.com/UB1832FX/index.cfm?lang=ENG) and that is quality for the money I paid. Just worried as I tend to find cheaper mic's a bit "muddy" and that does not help for shimmering cymbals. I just thought I would maybe get these for the price they are...a bargain!

3vil0n3

05-25-2006, 10:25 PM

I have a pair of those mics and a very similar mixer. They were such a vast improvement over what we were doing. I use just those 2 mics and a CAD 412 bass drum mike to do my whole set. I can post a sample of the setup if you want.

TitanSound

05-25-2006, 10:28 PM

That would be awesome! Please do!

3vil0n3

05-25-2006, 10:33 PM

Ok. http://drumgods.home.comcast.net/goodtimes/mp3/GreenRiver.mp3 This is Green River as recorded by my Dad's old time band. He's a little reverb crazy but you can get the idea with the mics. I don't have a drums only copy on me. Hope it helps though.

After listening to this I'm thinking I should put another mic on the snare, but it gets the overall sound pretty good.

TitanSound

05-25-2006, 10:42 PM

wow...they sound pretty good considering how cheap they are! I think a mic on the snare would have helped....just so its a bit more definate in the mix.

Cool tune too!

I will have these C2's, bass drum and snare miced so I'll post a drums only sample next week.

Thanks!

3vil0n3

05-25-2006, 10:46 PM

The bass drum mic was a CAD KBM412. I got it for $50 american from musicians friend. The mixer is a Behringer UB-1202FX. This gets routed into a Lexicon Omega Desktop Recording Studio into CuBase basic or whatever the program was it came with. I've got a SM-57 for the snare, just seemed like I didn't need it with these anymore, but mabey I was wrong.

Upon further review, I'm glad I gave that song more cowbell.

TitanSound

05-25-2006, 10:50 PM

lol...."we GOTTA have more cowbell.."

I was just looking up that bass drum mic and the cheapest I could find it here was £60, about $110 I think. Where did you place the mics? Just over the kit in the normal fashion or pointing at the kit from the back?

I'll be running it through that mixer into a Fostex digital multitrack and then onto Cubase afterwards.

3vil0n3

05-25-2006, 10:58 PM

The bass drum mic was about 8 or 10 inches from the batter head inside of the bass drum. The left condencer was a little left of the snare and about 2 stick lengths away from the head. The right condencer was about 2 stick lengths away from the snare head but about a foot and a half to the right. Both mics were aimed in the direction of the snare and slightly twords the bass drum batter head.

I probably used a little bit of studio reberb or compression off of the behringer mixer, I can't remember right now. The room really isn't that great to record in. Terrible acoustics. Thanks for the kind words.

TitanSound

05-25-2006, 11:09 PM

Cool stuff....i'll try that out on Tuesday.

Thanks for the pointers!

demondrummer92

05-27-2006, 06:00 AM

Hey all i was just wondering on what i should get 4 mics a mix board and how to set them up cuz i really dont get the concept like yeah i get that u hook the mics up 2 a mixing board but how do u get that into a comp and stuff like that

Fat Elvis

05-27-2006, 06:21 AM

mic's into the board
board speaker output (or line output)
to Firewire or USB interface (like this one (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-FireWire-410-Computer-Recording-Interface?sku=701385))
to sound program (like protools, logic, garage band, etc).

you can also spend more on an interface that has multiple mic inputs and run the mics directly into the interface, since the software can act as a board itself and usually allow you to control far more than a physical board would.

demondrummer92

05-28-2006, 05:33 AM

THX MAN I REALLY APPRECIATE UR HELP i fnally get it now i was like ok now what does the mix board plug into but i get it now

tmc

06-02-2006, 06:53 PM

Cool stuff....i'll try that out on Tuesday.

Thanks for the pointers!

Hi TitanSound.

I have a pair of C-2s... they're pretty good. I recently replaced them with something from Beyerdynamic. I now use one of the C-2s over my high hats and I plan to have the other one poised over my ride when I get the necessary cables and stands. They are quite bright, so they do make good overhead mics... in my limited-knowledge opinion. For the money, I don't think you'll be too disappointed.

-Michael

pillow

06-05-2006, 04:56 PM

Hey guys!

I want to record my playing on my drumset... Now here is my question:

I've got two Rode NT1 and tow AKG SE300B mics... Are those any good for drum-recording?

mase11th

06-05-2006, 11:45 PM

The Rode condenser mics would work well for overhead placement or general field placement.

What capsules are you using with the AKG's?
What type of room are you recording in?
What method/equipment are you using to record?

If you're simply recording to listen to yourself, the two Rode's would be all you need. They should pick up most of the kit fairly well if placed as overheads. If you're looking for defined tone from each piece, you would need seperate dynamic mics on every tom, snare, bass drum, etc.... As well as a mixer with as many channels.

rmedek

06-06-2006, 12:01 AM

I've never used the AKGs but the NT1 sounds pretty good—a little bright but through a warm preamp it sort of evens out. If you're looking to purchase more mics rather than use what you have, for a low-cost/high performance mic I really, really, really, really, really, really recommend the Shure KSM 32. :) They sound great and are still a little under the radar so you can pick them up fairly cheap online.

My friend and I have a theory, though—that the preamp and compressor used on the mics will make a much bigger difference than the mic itself.

MAX ZNAEVSKY

06-06-2006, 12:17 AM

I'll be on studio during next week to record my drum tracks for a new album, I'll use two Shures 57 on snare, a bunch of Sennheisers 421 on toms, AKGs (dont know the number or a model for sure) - overheads, AudioTechnika (inside the bassdrum) and Shure 57 to pick up beaters "tchick", DDrum 4, Manley Voxbox compressors and equalizers....I'll post some results later....

Max.

ajgdrums722

06-06-2006, 12:37 AM

I have the Samson 7-Piece Drum Microphone set. One for each of the three toms, one for the snare, one for the bass and 2 overhead condenser mics. Pretty expensive but it makes the set sound great.

pillow

06-06-2006, 01:19 AM

hm... well...

My band and me want to record a few of our songs... In the garage of our guitarist.

Do you think the two Rodes as two overalls for all instruments (drums, bass, guitar) will do it?

We only want to get some records for a small demotape. We do not need a high-end studio recording yet ...

Mediocrefunkybeat

06-06-2006, 01:25 AM

The Rodes'll do the job. They make some good condensor mikes for the money. It might be worth seeing as you're doing it as a garage project, to see if the guitarist's amp has a DI output. This could save you a lot of trouble with soundproofing and microphone issues that you might encounter when recording a guitar amp with a condensor. If I were you, recording with his amp I'd rather DI it or use a reasonable dynamic (eg. SM57) than use a condensor. The condensors will be just great as overheads though for your drums.

TPC

06-06-2006, 01:26 AM

the two condensers should work fine for general, "room" recording. placement, of course, will be crucial. try many, many mic and instrument locations before diving into "final" takes.

pillow

06-06-2006, 01:31 AM

Perhaps we record every sound track apart...

But I think you must be very good at playing to a klick-track, and i've never done that before, just as the whole band. So we're not sure, if this will work.
But if.. what would you say: Can I use those mics (especially the AKGs) for the bassdrum; the Rodes as overalls ?

Mediocrefunkybeat

06-06-2006, 01:33 AM

If those AKGs are dynamics, I wouldn't suggest you use those as specific bass drum microphones. If they are dynamics, try it. I've seen an SM57 used as a bass drum mic with some success despite the small diameter of the diagphram.

If you want to record the parts separately (which was my assumption in the first place) I suggest you first play to a click, but you can also record to a scratch track. Record a rough mix of your band playing the track with an ambient room mic, then use that as your 'click' for when you re-record your part. Works like a charm providing the timing's right on the scratch.

pillow

06-06-2006, 01:41 AM

I have no idea, what kind of mics that are.. They're not mine, but those of my brother. He can't help me and my band, so i have to do all that stuff by myself.

This are the AKGs (http://www.akg.com/products/powerslave,mynodeid,15,id,231,pid,231,_language,EN .html)

Perhaps someone of you can tell me whether they're good for bassdrum-recording or not. I Think if I want a fourth mic (2 overalls, 1 bassdrum = 3 +) for the snare, the AKG will do this job.

Mediocrefunkybeat

06-06-2006, 01:46 AM

They could work. Condensors though, you'd be better off using them as ambient room mics if I'm honest. With good placement you don't really need much more than two overheads for a good kit sound.

pillow

06-06-2006, 01:53 AM

Ok, thanks man!

You really helped me.

perhaps you will hear one of the recordnings in a week..

Mediocrefunkybeat

06-06-2006, 01:55 AM

I sincerely hope so. Come back in a year and I might be able to give you some really good advice. Definately want to hear how you've done with those recordings.

k3ng

07-12-2006, 05:32 PM

Oldie

07-12-2006, 07:28 PM

There are really a lot of posibilities with mics.
Good old Shure SM57 can be used on snare, hihat and toms. (Some even use it on kick.)
For toms look for Shure Beta 56A.
Kick: AKG D112 or Beta 52A.
Cymbals need a little brighter mics, look a Condenser mic, example Shure PG81.

Here is a link to a document from Shure describing drumset micing.
http://www.shure.com/stellent/groups/public/@gms_gmi_web_us_pro/documents/web_resource/us_pro_mic_techniques_drums_ea.pdf

/frode

tmc

07-12-2006, 10:19 PM

I need as much info as can be provided about micing equipment

What kind of mics are used? Do drum mics use compressors?
Are there any example models that you can give me?

This is micing up for large hall playing

Thanks

Hi K3ng.

Usually (but not always) dynamics for the drums with large dynamics used for kick and sometimes floor toms, and condensors for overheads/close cymbal mic'ing with large condensors sometimes used for room mics.

Dynamics generally handle high sound pressure levels from drums like the kick and the snare better than condensors do. Condensors, because they are more sensitive to transients are usually used for cymbals and overheads.

Some engineers add compression to the drums, most often I believe, to the kick drum. Gating and other techniques, along with EQ, are often used, as well.

As for examples, I'm not sure what you're looking for and there is an infinite number of ways to mic a kit... using from one mic to well over a dozen... It depends what kind of a sound you're after, how big your kit is and how much you can afford to spend. I guess a good starting point would be a pair of small condensors as overheads, an SM57 for the snare and a Beta52 or something similar for the bass. Keep in mind that my limited experience is in home-recording and while I'm sure the basics are the same, there will be some differences for live mic'ing.

-Michael

k3ng

07-14-2006, 02:33 PM

tmc

07-14-2006, 06:52 PM

Thank you for the input guys.

Any other example brands/models for mics? I just need a rough idea before going shopping..
Bear in mind this is micing from medium large hall live playing, not recording (I think there's a difference right?)

Also, I know most mic-ed up drums are tuned with less resonance etc etc, but what if the drum were to maintain it's more ringy tuning, is there a different set of mics to use?

Does the Hi Hat need to have it's own mic or can it do without?

For bass drum micing, how different is the position of mic(outside resonant head/inside bass drum) and bass drum hole size in the resonant head going to affect the sound? Or the choice of equipment for that matter

Hi again, K3ng.

I use Shure, Rode and Behringer, but there are tons of others.

My drums ring nicely, and I haven't felt the urge to change that for recording... sounds pretty good to my ear.

Your hats are actually quite loud, and if mic'ed properly through the overheads, there won't really be a need IMO to add another mic just for them.

I have a Shure Beta52A inside of my bassdrum roughly in the middle of the drum on a small pillow, facig the beater. It really picks up the 'boom' of the drum. I also have a room mic (Rode large diaphram condensor) that's about 8 feet away and it picks up some of the attack from the beater. My drum has both heads intact (I feed the wire from the mic through the holes where my toms used to be attached-they're now on a rack). Getting the sound that I wanted from my bass drum was the most difficult thing, for me.

-Michael

tuner1014

07-14-2006, 11:18 PM

to be honest im audix loyal. I recently had to buy a set of drum mics and i went with audix. They sound phenomenal. I play in a self produce, self managed, self recorded, self mastered band. basically we do everything.

The audix d6 will rip your heart out (if needed to) It can also give you taht fatt bass thump. very versitile. very nice kick mic. i bought the fusuion 6 pack for everything else. when recording i used a sm57 for the snare but other than that i use the fusion kit. The f10/12 mics are great. get nice tone; realistic. Also whats nice is they pickup just the right amount of low end. What caught me off gaurd was the overheads!! usually you buy a package mic kit and your overhead are the first to go. not in this case. These overheads are very nice. penicil compressors. They sound great. It makes ym cymbals sound better than real life. i like them alot. also good for instrument micing.

All these mics can be inter used with instrument micing. We have used the f12 for bass cab micing, and the f10 for guitar can micing, Of course when recording everything is done separately with several compressors and blah blah. thats another thread. these mics are also heavy duty. very tough. trust audix. you wont regret it

tuner1014

07-14-2006, 11:18 PM

to be honest im audix loyal. I recently had to buy a set of drum mics and i went with audix. They sound phenomenal. I play in a self produce, self managed, self recorded, self mastered band. basically we do everything.

The audix d6 will rip your heart out (if needed to) It can also give you taht fatt bass thump. very versitile. very nice kick mic. i bought the fusuion 6 pack for everything else. when recording i used a sm57 for the snare but other than that i use the fusion kit. The f10/12 mics are great. get nice tone; realistic. Also whats nice is they pickup just the right amount of low end. What caught me off gaurd was the overheads!! usually you buy a package mic kit and your overhead are the first to go. not in this case. These overheads are very nice. penicil compressors. They sound great. It makes ym cymbals sound better than real life. i like them alot. also good for instrument micing.

All these mics can be used with instrument micing too. We have used the f12 for bass cab micing, and the f10 for guitar cab micing, Of course when recording everything is done separately with several compressors and blah blah. thats another thread. these mics are also heavy duty. very tough. For live applications these mics excel! They sound great live. great attack, great warmth, great sustain, i like them alot. i was very pleased/impressed with these budget mic kit. I would say the best on the market for the money. trust audix. you wont regret it

Mediocrefunkybeat

07-14-2006, 11:34 PM

Tuner, how does that D6 compare with say a D112 or a D12? I've never been impressed with the D112 or D12 and I've used both. They both seem very 'flat' sounding with almost no life to the sound. Although I have heard of the 'secret trick' with the D112, I'd much rather just go for a better microphone to start with.

k3ng

07-15-2006, 08:38 AM

Another add in.

Any other alternative suggestions aside from the shures ? They're a little over budget at the moment.

Any cheaper mic sets? Relatively good? What about T-Bones?

SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ

07-16-2006, 04:55 PM

I use the AKG D112 on kick. I have two MXL 604s that can go in either cardiod or omni mode. I really like using one of those in omni for my overhead. Today I think I'm gonna try the other in cardiod on the snare. Previously I've used a trash mic (Optimus) on the snare with nice results. I even liked it better than the SM58- hah! I have a MXL 2001 which I use for a room mic when I have an extra input open. I prefer the room mic to a plugged reverb. So many mics to choose from... I can't wait until I can afford some more. Don't forget about your preamps! I have two ART Pro Channels that are very nice and a Presonus Tube Pre which was a freebie and gets the job done.

el pollo diablo

07-16-2006, 07:48 PM

two overhead behringer b-1 condensers work great for me. and i put a sennheiser e609 on the batter side of my bass drum. also a Blue Kickball if i want to bring out the snare a little more.

the end.

IDDrummer

07-16-2006, 08:11 PM

Another vote for Audix, especially the D6 on the bass drum.

NaturalRaZ

07-16-2006, 09:54 PM

Do you intend on only micing your kit in a large hall? You might wanna go into a small environment one day. Or, even a studio someday. You need to take those factors into consideration before jumping into buying mic's.

k3ng

07-17-2006, 12:44 PM

NaturalRaz,

forgot to mention, this isn't me kit. It's me church's kit, and it's definitely going to stay in that hall =P and not go to a studio. So yes, medium to large hall usage only.

Mediocrefunkybeat

07-17-2006, 12:53 PM

In my own experience, mics for PA use and mics for studio use aren't hugely different. A good microphone is a good microphone. My own personal favourites that I've used are:

Overheads: AKG C-1000
Snare: Shure SM58/57
Bass: AKG D12 (D112) (I would like to use an Audix D6, but no experience with sadly)

Those are a good 'industry standard' set to work from. Obviously the prices might be a little high (especially for the overheads) but that set works and has been shown to work even in inexperienced hands like my own with sub-par (even for an amateur) skills and almost no experience.

Chip

07-17-2006, 01:44 PM

Sorry for the 'hijack' as such...........Don't want to make another thread just for this.

Has anybody had experience with "Nady" mic's? I just want some cheap (a BD mic, 4 x Sn, Tom, 2 cymbal mics for 330AU) mics to record my ideas and track my progress. I have access to an iBook with GarageBand.... I'm a real 'noob' when it comes to recording. Dunno about the mixer though.

Will 2 cymbal mics cover hats, 2 crashes and a ride?

It's not for any serious recording, just to record ideas, track progress, maybe record a few songs with the band. I can go elsewhere for serious recording.

gretsch4life

07-17-2006, 10:12 PM

I'm finaly going to cut a demo with my home recording software, but i dont have mics... I will probably oly use 2 overheads and a bass (possibly a snare) I already own a sure m57. what mics should i buy

Fat Elvis

07-17-2006, 11:44 PM

i bought the Audix Fusion 6 pack. It was @ $350 i think and well worth the money. I recorded with em and they sounded good. If you are looking to mic everything, this is a good place to start. The only problem is that the kick mic is not "ideal" -- the audix D6 will be my next mic upgrade.

If you are looking to do just the 2 overheads and a kick mic (minimal set-up), go with the Audix D6 for the kick mic and stick with the sm57's for overheads.

Chip

07-18-2006, 12:48 PM

Look into "Nady". They are 180US(? I think, I don't know the conversion rate that well) for the DMK-7 pack. 4 x snare/tom mics, 2 x cymbal mics, 1 bass mic. I read a lot of reviews by a lot of surprised people, e.g. (this is along the ines, not an actual quote)

I was expecting bad quality mics for the money, but these actually recorded better than some more expensive mics! Can't beat a Shure SM58(7?) for the snare though. They took about an hour to set up good, keep them close to the heads. The bass mic sounds great with some EQ'ing!

They were the responses that seemed to be the most common. They are available on Musiciansfriend.com.

Hope there was some help there!

Stu_Strib

07-18-2006, 04:17 PM

If you are looking to do just the 2 overheads and a kick mic (minimal set-up), go with the Audix D6 for the kick mic and stick with the sm57's for overheads.

Will SM57s work as overheads? I don't want to spend $350 x 2 on SM81s, and I could easily pick up 3 SM57s for about $150 (one for the snare while I'm at it).

Stu

Fat Elvis

07-18-2006, 06:37 PM

not 100% sure, stu -- i heard they could but are not necessarily ideal. the last time i recorded i used samson condensor mics as overheads. i always look at the sm57 as an all-around mic. defenately look into it further before taking my advise, thats for sure :)

tmc

07-18-2006, 11:19 PM

Will SM57s work as overheads? I don't want to spend $350 x 2 on SM81s, and I could easily pick up 3 SM57s for about $150 (one for the snare while I'm at it).

Stu

Hey Stu.

As I understand it, the 57s will be fine, but a pair of condensors would be better as overheads. The reason being that the condensors are better at picking up transients so you'll get a much better cymbal sound from them than you will from the 57s. i.e. the condensors will do a better job with those beautiful high freqs. from your cymbals. This is so, apparently, due to the fact that condensors are more sensitive than dynamic mics, like the Shure 57, and they are put into motion more quickly, etc... Definitely go for the 57 for your snare, though.

-Michael

tmc

07-21-2006, 11:08 PM

8< snip snip snip >8

Will 2 cymbal mics cover hats, 2 crashes and a ride?

It's not for any serious recording, just to record ideas, track progress, maybe record a few songs with the band. I can go elsewhere for serious recording.

Two mics will cover your setup pretty well. I use a pair of condensors in an x-y position placed about the middle of the kit and about 3-feet above. This setup gets all of my cymbals and does a pretty good job on the snare and toms, too. It's a little weak on the bass, though.

Actually, I also get pretty good sound just from my "room" mic, a large condensor (Rode). It does as good a job with the cymbals and the toms/snare as the two overheads, but it does a better job with the bass drum. I usually mix that in with the overheads and the close mics, but it has a pretty kickass sound all on its own. I have that mic placed about 8 feet away and about 4 feet of the floor.

Rock on!
-Michael
NP: 30 Seconds to Mars - 30 Seconds to Mars

k3ng

07-22-2006, 06:45 PM

I use a pair of condensors in an x-y position placed about the middle of the kit and about 3-feet above.

Whats an 'X-Y position', just being curious...

And while I'm on the topic of positioning, could anyone draw me a small diagram of where you usually put ur mics and stands?

Also, when micing with dynamic mics, is it better to attach the mic to the drum (I've seen some people do that) or put it hanging over the drum with a stand?

SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ

07-22-2006, 09:28 PM

The 'X/Y' technique is used to get a perfect stereo image of an audio source (or that's its intention at least). You can do this with two mic stands, or one if you have a multi-mic adapter for the one stand. Basically, you point both mics towards the corner of a right angle. The idea is that the sound arrives at both mics at the same time. Each mic 'looks over the shoulder' of the other mic to catch the oposite stereo image. The mic on the right will be getting more of the sound on the left, and vice versa. Usually, these mics get used as overheads and a good starting place is just above your head when you are sitting down at the drum throne.

There are lots of great ways to mic the drums. I know there are a few common ones that actually have names but they escape me right now. I won't bother to explain them all in detail because that info is widely available via search. I will tell you my current favorite way to mic though. I use one small diaphram condensor in omni mode just over my head, pointing down towards the center of my kit, or right about where my right knee is. I use a large diaphram dynamic in the kick. Lately I've been using a small diaphram dynamic on the snare, but I think I'm about to switch to a small diaphram condensor in cardiod mode. I like to use a large diaphram condensor in the other room for my 'room mic'.

hauk

07-31-2006, 09:20 PM

ok, im really new to recording (all i know is what i've gotten from scanning a few wikipedia articles and lotsa threads here) so i've got some questions. im planning (somtime) to get two overheads to mic my kit. i'll be using garage band on a powerbook to record my playing.
i know i'll need two identical overhead condensers - i'm on quite a budget, so i'm looking at three models mainly:
Nady CM-90 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-CM-90-Cardioid-Condenser-Mic?sku=277087)
Nady CM-88 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Nady-CM88-Condenser-Microphone?sku=277048)
and Behringer B-5 (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-B5-Condenser-Microphone?sku=270492)
I'm shying away from the Behringer because of the price. are cardoid mics ok for overheads or will i want to spend the extra cash for the option of omnidirectional?
what kinda stand(s) and clips and the like will i need for an XY setup? (cheap servicable examples welcome)
what am i gonna need as a middleman from the mics to the powerbook? (same w/ examples again)
what will i need to power the mics?
and is there anything i seem to be missing? like i said, im new at this and need to know the complete spectrum of gear i need to buy
thanks, sorry for so many questions

ps-also, opinions one which of the above mics i should get (especially between the nadys) and low-cost alternatives are welcome

ROCKDRUMMERZERO

08-01-2006, 12:40 AM

Audix D2's on Toms up to 14" - D4's on larger toms - i5 Under the snare, SM57 on top and an Audio Technica AE2500 ( Dual Element ) on the Bassdrum. Overheads Rode NT1's - This setup is producing great results for me and my RC's and Istanbuls!

hauk

08-01-2006, 05:52 AM

also, almost forgot, should i get pencil condensers as overheads using XY or will any old condenser do?

k3ng

08-11-2006, 02:55 PM

ok.. bumping up the thread again...

what about mics for cowbells? do they need a seperate mic or do the condensors pick them up? cowbell is mounted on the bass drum FYI. thanks

emmerson

08-27-2006, 07:16 AM

alright heres my drum specs if it helps at all?

Pearl Export EXR 7pc (Poplar Wood)
10x8
12x9
14x11
16x16
22x18
14x5 (Secondary Snare)
14x5 (Main Snare Pearl Sensitone Brass)

right now my room is fairly larger the walls are half stone half wood. The flooring is carpet and tile in one part of it. Ceiling are fairly tall. i'm looking for an ideal micing setup and microphones brand and serise etc. for Main Snare (Brass) Secondary Snare (Poplar Wood) all tom toms, Bass Drum and cymbals placed around my kit i dont want the microphones to take up to much space but i dont want to suffer sound quality for size. suggestions would be great thank you.

Spacehog

08-27-2006, 02:34 PM

I'd keep things simple... go for a pair of decent condenser mics for overheads (I use Rode NT1A's, which are great, but for something a little cheaper the M-Audio Nova is great sounding), a Shure SM57 for your snare(s) and a kick drum mic (AKG D112, Shure Beta52 or Audix D6 seem to be the big 3 choices). Only after that, look at your budget and see if you need / can afford tom mics. FWIW I use a Shure Beta57A on my snare and SM57's on my toms, and currently a D112 (soon to be replaced by a Beta52) in the kick.

Drifter in the Dark

08-27-2006, 04:59 PM

You'd be surprised how good of a sound you can get with just some condenser mics in the room. The infamous Bonham sound on "When the Levee Breaks," for example, was created by placing a single big condenser at the top of a stairwell.

SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ

08-28-2006, 04:34 AM

Ya, I wouldn't get more than three or four mics to start with. There are a lot of possibilities with just that small amount. Once you feel you've got the sound you want with those, you can add more where you think you need it... for example: close mic'ing your toms... or adding more room mics...

Also, if you focus on just a few mics at first, you may be able to spend some money on some decent pres.

Frank M

09-07-2006, 02:04 AM

How practicle would it be to use two overhead condenser mikes (akg c430),an audix f10 on the snare and an audix f12 on the kick. any opinions would be greatly welcome

rendezvous_drummer

09-07-2006, 02:06 AM

Uhhh I don't know much about mics but I would think you'd need mics for the toms too. That's a pretty good setup you have there, but you need some fer your toms. I played with just over heads and bass and they sounded like shite.

finnhiggins

09-07-2006, 02:17 AM

rendezvous is right. Live and the studio are different beasts - in the studio you can use basically just overheads and a kick mic and get away with it if you have quality mics and good stuff in the signal chain, because you can minimise spill and use the overheads to pick up tone from the toms. If you have nice enough mics, tuning, room and placement then the only thing missing is usually some low-end from the kick. But in a live environment the whole setup is different - generally the cymbals will carry pretty well without microphones up to fairly large room sizes, but the toms vanish almost immediately and the bass drum loses bass pretty sharpish too. So you tend to see it as re-enforcement rather than trying to capture what's happening.

I've done engineering gigs with just a kick mic and tom mikes, both mixed pretty low. They work enough to fill out the bass and tone from the drums, while the snare and cymbals still have enough cut to make it through the mix. But ideally you want complete coverage.

Frank M

09-07-2006, 04:05 AM

Thanks for your feed back! I have a set of audix mikes I have been using for live gigs, I use one f 10 for the snare, one for both mounted toms and one for both floor toms, the f12 for the kick.Getting pretty good results with that setup, just missing the crisp highs on the cymbals. The motive behind the overheads replacing the tom mikes was that our mixer only has four channels available for drums. Looks like secondary mixer may be in the cards for the drum mikes and throw in the condensers.

What type of overhead mikes would be best to use considering the guitar amps are close to the drums?

bighaibigdrums

09-07-2006, 09:58 PM

What type of overhead mikes would be best to use considering the guitar amps are close to the drums?
None. Ive have donbe tons of sound and sure you can get a nice sound out of overheads but they are a pain in the ass to control. Just stick to micing your toms, snare and kick, your cymbals will come through the tom mics just fine and your snare mic will pickup the hats.

NUTHA JASON

09-07-2006, 10:36 PM

i'm revamping my mic set up for live and just bought these babies for the toms...

http://i22.ebayimg.com/02/i/08/44/1f/c7_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&item=150030425474&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1#ebayphotohosting)Sennheiser e604
i've used them in a lot of shared gigs and find them to be truly great and user friendly.

then i have the akgdii2 for my kick a shure beta57 for my snare and one akgc1000s and a shure pencil condenser as overheads.

parser

09-08-2006, 03:47 AM

i'm revamping my mic set up for live and just bought these babies for the toms...

http://i22.ebayimg.com/02/i/08/44/1f/c7_2.JPG (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&item=150030425474&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1#ebayphotohosting)Sennheiser e604
i've used them in a lot of shared gigs and find them to be truly great and user friendly.
.

Yup, that's the same mic set I use for toms. I'm pretty happy with the results so far too - low profile, handy little clips.

IDDrummer

09-08-2006, 07:07 AM

Yep, I've got the Sennheiser e604s as well. Nice mics. Plenty of punch and low end, which seemed to be missing somewhat with the SM57s. I always found the 57s a little flat sounding or something...

Anyway, I'm happy with the Sennheisers for the toms...

mlbman216

09-12-2006, 03:36 PM

I'm looking to buy one. Don't know much about whats good and whats not. Been looking at the AKG D 112 Kick Drum Microphone. Disregarding money, what should I look at for quality.

Skitch

09-12-2006, 09:39 PM

Okay,

The title is self explanatory! How did you do it? What problems, if any, did you encounter?
Where, in the depth of the shell, did you place the microphone and how did it turn out?

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE (”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE”)

http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw (”http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw”)

Vipercussionist

09-13-2006, 03:22 AM

I have had MayEA in my kick drums since they first came out with them! My first one WAS with the drilless mount, but then I just said to heck with it and installed it straight away.

I also modified the installation a bit by using as short an extension as possible and mounting the Mic as far from the batter head as possible and pointing it directly at the point of impact.

I wanted to allow it to get the OOMPHFF of the drum rather than getting it too close and it being overwhelmed by the attack. I figured it wouldn't be too hard to get high end out of it with it inside the drum but I wanted the option of as much LOW end as possible.

The first one I had had the AKG D12E
http://www.mtsu.edu/~a_e_s/microphone/d12e.htm,
and now I've changed to the AKG D112
http://www.mtsu.edu/~a_e_s/microphone/d112.htm,
they BOTH received RAVE reviews from EVERY sound man I ever worked with.

They're worth every penny I spent on them.

The drums I have had them installed in are as follows ALL drums with full heads NO HOLES!!:

24x16 1980's Gretsch - w/ Emperor batter - Ludwig heavy coated resonant (D12E)

26x14 1950's Slingerland Radio King - w/ Emperor batter - Fiberskyn 3 resonant (D12E)

26x14 1999 Ludwig Classic - w/ Emperor batter - Ludwig heavy coated resonant (D12E)

and currently:
24x14 1970's Ludwig Classic - w/ Emperor batter - Ludwig heavy coated resonant head (D112)

Deathmetalconga

09-13-2006, 04:04 AM

Don't these block the airhole of the drum?

Deathmetalconga

09-13-2006, 04:16 AM

I got an Audio Technica ATM 25 on eBay for $70 used. It's the best bass drum mic for the money. You can spend 20 times that much and get better sound, yeah, but I don't think you'll get nowhere near as good cost-benefit.

IDDrummer

09-13-2006, 06:52 AM

My question is, where can a person actually buy the May mounts these days? They used to carry them at Idaho Percussion, but not any longer. I guess DW gets priority now.

Skitch

09-13-2006, 07:42 AM

My question is, where can a person actually buy the May mounts these days? They used to carry them at Idaho Percussion, but not any longer. I guess DW gets priority now.

Here you go:

http://www.interstatemusic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10021&productId=101569 (http://http://www.interstatemusic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10021&productId=101569)

Interstate music has them listed in their catalogs as well.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE (”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE”)

http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw (”http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw”)

Skitch

09-13-2006, 07:47 AM

Skitch

09-13-2006, 07:48 AM

Don't these block the airhole of the drum?
I assume you are talking about the Air Vent Connector and not the mic itself?

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE (”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE”)

http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw (”http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw”)

Skitch

09-13-2006, 07:51 AM

If you can find one, the BeyerDynamic XTG 50 (?) not sure of the model number here. It is a dual Diaphram mic. It catches both the front head and the back('cause it is a dual diaphram). With the right sound engineer and BD set-up, these can sound absolutley insane!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE (”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE”)

http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw (”http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw”)

Jay.B.

09-13-2006, 09:39 AM

most people I know who use drum mics for road and studio use the AKG D112 or the egg as it was nicknamed.

If price is not an issue (lucky bugger) then have a look at beyer dynamic, I think there is also a mic company called pearl, or maybe that's just the name of one of their condenser mics that are about £350 each.

Have a look round, do your research, compare specs etc. and where possible get your hands on one to see if it feels durable/solid construction etc.

IDDrummer

09-13-2006, 04:07 PM

Here you go:

http://www.interstatemusic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10021&productId=101569 (http://http://www.interstatemusic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10021&productId=101569)

Interstate music has them listed in their catalogs as well.

Mike

Mike, thanks for the info, but the link won't work. I also tried going directly to the Interstate Music site and doing a search, but I couldn't find the May mounts. :(

Deathmetalconga

09-13-2006, 05:24 PM

I assume you are talking about the Air Vent Connector and not the mic itself?

Mike

I think so. When all is said and done and it's installed, do you still have an airhole one way or the other?

Deathmetalconga

09-13-2006, 05:26 PM

My question is, where can a person actually buy the May mounts these days? They used to carry them at Idaho Percussion, but not any longer. I guess DW gets priority now.

Idaho Percussion can get just about anything - sometimes, though, you have to wait a long, long time. I try to give my business to small local merchants whenever possible but sometimes I have to go to Guitar Center if I want something within two weeks.

IDDrummer

09-14-2006, 04:22 AM

Idaho Percussion can get just about anything - sometimes, though, you have to wait a long, long time. I try to give my business to small local merchants whenever possible but sometimes I have to go to Guitar Center if I want something within two weeks.

Yeah, they're great guys, but A) I don't want to wait in limbo forever and B) they say they don't carry them anymore. I'm sure they would try and get one for me, but I'd rather purchase from someplace that actually carries them.

I've purchased 4-5 cymbals, a Roc-n-Soc throne and assorted goodies from Idaho Percussion, but keeping track of unusual orders isn't their forte.

SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ

09-15-2006, 05:05 AM

I can't comment on other kick mics but I personally own an AKG D112 and I have been very happy with it.

mlbman216

09-15-2006, 06:25 AM

Thanks Guys. Can you test Kick Drum Mics out a Guitar Center?

Skitch

09-15-2006, 09:58 PM

Mike, thanks for the info, but the link won't work. I also tried going directly to the Interstate Music site and doing a search, but I couldn't find the May mounts. :(

Okay try this then,

Go to

www.interstatemusic.com

Where it says "Order by Catalog number" , type in "MICMAYD112BD" that is the only way I know to get to it on the internet. However, you can also can them at 1-800-in-a -band and order it that way as well. Furthermore, by going over the phone you will be able to order a mic besides the D112, if you so choose.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE (”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE”)

Skitch

09-15-2006, 10:00 PM

I think so. When all is said and done and it's installed, do you still have an airhole one way or the other?

Unless you drill the shell, yes, you will be going out the venthole, which is what I opted to do as the shell drilling is too permanent (waves-ha) for me. I tried these out in the Kick and Toms on a gig last night and it was pretty impressive!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE (”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE”)

Deathmetalconga

09-15-2006, 10:52 PM

Unless you drill the shell, yes, you will be going out the venthole, which is what I opted to do as the shell drilling is too permanent (waves-ha) for me. I tried these out in the Kick and Toms on a gig last night and it was pretty impressive!

Mike

Thanks. But what I really wanted to know was: Is the airhole still operable? Can air still move in and out of it with the mic installed, cable running out, etc.?

Skitch

09-15-2006, 10:57 PM

Thanks. But what I really wanted to know was: Is the airhole still operable? Can air still move in and out of it with the mic installed, cable running out, etc.?
The AVC isn't an air-tight seal; some air can still move in and out of the drum. The hardware is mostly for asthetic concerns and there is room aroung the cable for air to enter and exit the drum.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE (”http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXMxJw0VnqE”)

Paiste 2002

09-16-2006, 10:17 PM

I have been using the Audix D6 for a few years and I have never been happier with a kick drum mic. Almost every single show some sound guy mentions the kick sound at some point. And the reaction is usually the same: "Oh no wonder, it's an Audix".

I have tried/owned most of the others like the D112, Sennheiser E602, Audio-Technica AE2500 and the Beta 52, but the Audix has this EQ'd sound right out of the box that is simply incredible. What they basically did is scooped the mids, added some punch somewhere around 50-80hz., and added some snap in the upper mids/low highs. Awesome click and articulation -- and deep, tube-like low end is the result with no EQ at all. And the overall sound is massive.

Even if your drum doesn't sound all that great in the room, it will now. You can tweak the sound response a little bit just by moving the placement in relation to the beater. Some of the other mics I listed sound similar on any kick you throw it in. The D6 has the magic ability to not only clearly distinguish between different shell types and sizes, but also make drums that don't sound all that great within the acoustics of a given room....sound great. I am not saying that this mic will make your 1982 CB 700 kick drum sound like a GMS Grand Master tweaked by Drum Doctors, but it is definately very forgiving.

If you don't have the EQ capability on your board, or you just don't want to fiddle with a bunch of stuff to get a great kick sound, get the D6. If you can justify spending $180-200 on one, look no further -- this is the golden child.

Brad

IDDrummer

09-17-2006, 08:17 AM

I agree with Brad on the Audix D6, which was the first drum microphone I ever purchased. It likes a bit more gain than some other mics, but gives incredible sound once you figure that out. Requires very little EQ, not too picky about positioning, easy to use. I have done some testing with a D112, and it was certainly a decent mic, but I noticed that it picked up more off-axis sound than the Audix and just didn't give as "sweet" a sound to my ear.

I wouldn't be dissapointed with either, though, when it comes down to it. They'll both give professional results.

Paiste 2002

09-18-2006, 01:12 AM

Well said ID,

I forgot to mention the gain thing, since after I also figured it out it became a non-issue. I look at the D6 a little like an old Detroit muscle car. It takes a little more oomph to get it rolling but once it does....look out. And by the way, after all this talk of the D6, I went and looked on Ebay to see what they were going for there nowadays. I found that AAAudio, who I have bought from many times and are excellent sellers, has this insane package deal: http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Audix-D6-Kick-Mic-2-Cables-FREE-MXL603-MIC_W0QQitemZ260032210418QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41464Q QtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem.

I ended up getting one lol because this deal is very hard to beat with the extras and free shipping. I will try the Marshall on my hi-hats -- I have read some really great reviews on this mic. And who doesn't need a couple extra mic cables, especially good ones such as Whirlwind? As for the extra D6 I now (soon) own, I plan to experiment with it as a beater-side kick mic. I heard a drummer when I was in San Antonio this summer that was using a SM57 on the beater side and a D6 on the resonant side on a Yamaha Maple Customs 22X16, and I was floored by the sound. It seems that if you can capture the click sound on the beater side, you can forget about getting that on the res side and go for a bigger, thicker sound. When you add the two together on the board and get the right mix going.....wow.

If it is not allowed to post Ebay links here, just delete it. I am a moderator at another forum and I know how that stuff goes.

Brad

IDDrummer

09-18-2006, 06:49 AM

Brad, try that extra D6 on your floor tom. Sounds incredible...

grahamo87

09-18-2006, 06:24 PM

Yeah, audix is the best. I use the D6 on the floor tom and kick, and my bass player uses it on his cab, sounds AMAZING!!

Frank M

09-22-2006, 01:10 AM

Has anyone tried the audix adx 90 drum mikes?

Sparkadv

09-29-2006, 04:44 AM

Hi Guys,

I need to buy drum mics (5 piece + 3 cymbals). We play in small to medium size venues. Any cost effective suggestions? Please help.

FunkTional Art

09-30-2006, 10:42 AM

Hi Guys,

I need to buy drum mics (5 piece + 3 cymbals). We play in small to medium size venues. Any cost effective suggestions? Please help.
Apex drum mike package. Very cost effective and very decent sound. Kik mike is good.

hauk

10-07-2006, 06:35 AM

(already posted this in the recording thread a while ago, doesnt seem anybody goes there any more)

does anybody have any experience with behringer c-2 mics? i know behringer is regarded a quality company, but these mics seem ridiculously cheap. i know the get-what-you-pay-for adage (had a feeling somebody was gonna quote that), but i'm curious about any hands on experience. the reviews i've seen were good, but i'm still suspicious. hopeful though, cheap + quality = good for me

Mediocrefunkybeat

10-07-2006, 11:12 AM

Behringer are an interesting one to say the least. Basically they take another companies' product and copy it exactly at a cheaper price. There is no research and development department as such and that's partly why they can afford to sell so low. Quality is... variable. From terrible to really top notch and there are risks with buying Behringer. That said, if you get a good set of mics, then you can have something really good for next to nothing. I'm not sure on the C-2 mics specifically but I vaguely recall some positive feedback from some users.

Just be careful when dealing with Behringer.

Deathmetalconga

10-07-2006, 06:45 PM

I use a couple of Behringer mics for recording, ECM 8000. They're originally meant for sonic measurement, but they make excellent low-cost phantom powered condenser recording mics. I have suspended a boom mic mount from the ceiling and have these two attached, so I can point it around the room as needed. They make excellent recordings.

I have these mics connected to a Behringer Eurorack MX-602A, one of their mini mixer boards. It is extremely low noise and I love the combination. I have it running into a dual-deck CD recorder and it use it for recording band practices.

I've heard Behringer is varaible quality, however. But I can say that for the products I have, I have been extremely satisfied.

www.terrasonus.com