The Grand Master Buddy Rich

[Pocketman]

I've heard that people have started playing drums in other countries, too.

Sorry if it came across as xenophobic or silly. What I meant was U.S. drummers are "mostly" drumset players and jazz drumming started here. I was thinking along the lines of Steve Smith's "U.S. Beat" concept.

[photon]

Read an interesting quote from Buddy Rich in an article from on the more recent issues of Modern Drummer.

I can't recall the name of the drummer who the article was about but in it he mentions that in the 70's he asked Buddy what he thought about Bonham. Buddy according to the article proceeded to sit down at the kit and do a spot on perfect impersonation of Bonzo and then looked up and said...."John Bonham?.....anybody can do that"

Discuss........................

[foursticks]

hahaha, that's just the sort of person buddy is, i read in a book that buddy rich was a major influence over bonham.... intriging, is it not?

[Drumitup]

I also read that article and I'm not that suprised that Buddy could do an impersonation of Bonham It is not that hard for somebody that good to do an impersonation of a fellow drummer.

[NUTHA JASON]

okay...while i don't doubt buddy's talent and that he probably could do something like that i must make a few observations:

1) the drummer who watched buddy made his own subjective judgement of buddy's bonzo impersonation. buddy may have only closely copied bonham.

2) copying a groove is very different from making one up. so i'm not that impressed.

3) the fact that buddy was aware enough of bonzo to be able to copy his playing is quite an endorsement of bonham's skill. although, from what i have seen of BR, he would never admit to it, he probably deep inside admired bonham.

j

[foursticks]

3 words for u nutha; very well said

[photon]

I think if I had Buddy's technical skill I would also look at the drumming of Bonham as fairly elementary.......

I'm not knocking Bonham....I appreciate his rare talent and understand why he is so influential...but if I were Buddy..............

[intooder]

Both kings in their own right, but neither had the other's exact skill set. To me this is merely hearsay.
"A" read an article written by "B" interviewing "C" who mentioned "D" said "X" about "E". I suspect some data loss in this transfer.

[tambian89]

It all depends, since they are each good, but it different aspects. Buddy Rich is considered to have had the fastest hands ever; indeed, no one can even mimic his speed. Rich is also considered one of the greatest jazz drummers of all time. Bonzo is considered the greatest rock drummer by many (including myself) and is noted for innovative grooves, thunderous sound, lightning fast right foot, and his epic soloing abilites, as he could solo for almost a half hour and still maintain the crowd's attention. When it comes down to it, the two are separated by genre, but in terms of technicality, Bonzo seems to be ahead. Consider this: How many people listen to Led Zeppelin? Now after considering the staggering number, consider this: How many people listen to Buddy Rich? Probably not as much as those who listen to Led Zeppelin. Bonham continues to inspire generations of rock fans, and while Buddy Rich inspires people to get added speed and creativity, John Bonham inspires people to play. Led Zeppelin itself (which is the main reason Bonham is known, other than the Yardbirds) is probably about as inspirational as all of Buddy Rich's project's thrown together, due to the amount of peopl Bonham was able to affect. In terms of skillty, I cannot tell. Feel free to scourge, devour, and rip apart this post at your own disposal.

- Marc

[Henry II]

I may be wrong but this post is somewhat familiar to me...

- Ivo.

Yeah, I posted it before but I couldn't find it again in 178 posts, so I just wrote it again.

[drumbig]

It all depends, since they are each good, but it different aspects. Buddy Rich is considered to have had the fastest hands ever; indeed, no one can even mimic his speed. Rich is also considered one of the greatest jazz drummers of all time. Bonzo is considered the greatest rock drummer by many (including myself) and is noted for innovative grooves, thunderous sound, lightning fast right foot, and his epic soloing abilites, as he could solo for almost a half hour and still maintain the crowd's attention. When it comes down to it, the two are separated by genre, but in terms of technicality, Bonzo seems to be ahead. Consider this: How many people listen to Led Zeppelin? Now after considering the staggering number, consider this: How many people listen to Buddy Rich? Probably not as much as those who listen to Led Zeppelin. Bonham continues to inspire generations of rock fans, and while Buddy Rich inspires people to get added speed and creativity, John Bonham inspires people to play. Led Zeppelin itself (which is the main reason Bonham is known, other than the Yardbirds) is probably about as inspirational as all of Buddy Rich's project's thrown together, due to the amount of peopl Bonham was able to affect. In terms of skillty, I cannot tell. Feel free to scourge, devour, and rip apart this post at your own disposal.

- Marc



It seems to me that BR's music was based around his playing a lot as where Zeppelin just made great songs. So yeah, I'm sure more people listen to Zeppelin. In terms of technicality I think BR has more technical hands but Bonzo has more technical grooves. Now if I could just have BR's hands and Bonzos grooves hmmm...

[photon]

I wouldn't agree that Bonzo's grooves were all that technical...just that when he plays them they sound better than anybody else...

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Yeah, I posted it before but I couldn't find it again in 178 posts, so I just wrote it again.

I knew it! ;-)

What amazes me the most is to find how impressive was Buddy at mixing his incredible, out-of-this-world techniques with such sheer creativity... the aplication he gave to those techniques in those (his) classic solos is absolutely amazing. Everytime I show some of my mini collection of Buddy's solos to my friends, they always stay with their mouths WIDE opened in amazement (me too, of course)... it's just amazing. Every (single) time.

I've definitely NEVER seen ANYBODY who could amaze me more than Buddy (so easily) could.

- Ivo.

[Elvin4ever]

okay...while i don't doubt buddy's talent and that he probably could do something like that i must make a few observations:

1) the drummer who watched buddy made his own subjective judgement of buddy's bonzo impersonation. buddy may have only closely copied bonham.

2) copying a groove is very different from making one up. so i'm not that impressed.

3) the fact that buddy was aware enough of bonzo to be able to copy his playing is quite an endorsement of bonham's skill. although, from what i have seen of BR, he would never admit to it, he probably deep inside admired bonham.

j

The person who made those comments was me, and they were made on this forum a few months ago. My uncle sometimes played with Rich's band, and I knew him peripherally as a teenager via this association. Later, he was sort of friendly towards me, and we actually shared a drink from time to time. I am not trying to drop names, but it seems appropriate in light of this thread.

His Bonham mimic routine was more of a disdain for anyone mentioning others before mentioning him. That's the kind of guy he was. But sometimes you could get him on a good day and he could be less than a jerk. I kind of doubt he studied anyone other than Krupa or Chick Webb, and only when he was much younger. I was something like 12 at the time, so I suspect the legend gets bigger inside me as the years pass. As drummers go, he was very respectful of Morello, Jo Jones and Louie Bellson. He was a perfectionist. If you didn't match up to him you sucked. This made him a very frustrated man. Simply stated, he lived in a black and white world.

I think he liked Bonham well enough. Still, his favorite rock drummers were Bobby Columby and Danny Seraphine by a wide margin.

[RTDRUMS]

I knew it! ;-)

What amazes me the most is to find how impressive was Buddy at mixing his incredible, out-of-this-world techniques with such sheer creativity... the aplication he gave to those techniques in those (his) classic solos is absolutely amazing. Everytime I show some of my mini collection of Buddy's solos to my friends, they always stay with their mouths WIDE opened... it's just amazing. Every (single) time.

I've definitely NEVER seen ANYBODY who could amaze me more than Buddy (so easily) could.

- Ivo.
Try watching Thomas Lang. Dont get me wrong I started the Buddy Rich Thread.... I love BR but... damn Thomas Lang is a bad mofo

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Try watching Thomas Lang. Dont get me wrong I started the Buddy Rich Thread.... I love BR but... damn Thomas Lang is a bad mofo

I also love Thomas Lang's drumming, but he didn't impress me in the same way as Buddy did after so many hours of Buddy-videos I've seen during these months... Thomas Lang is a monster, Buddy is an eternal legend. I also couldn't see him (Lang) doing anything as fast as Buddy on his "1970 Buddy RIch" video available here, in drummerworld.com. The abilities, creativity and sheer speed (and speed control, also) shown "there" are still unmatched (at least to me). It's just a joy, a huge pleasure to watch those motions going on in front of me; in front of my impressed eyes.

- Ivo.

[darkcherryfade]

I don't like Thomas Lang solos, but saying Buddy can do everything this guy could do is going a little too far. I'm sure if Buddy would have studied that kind of drumming he would have been amazing at it, but he didn't learn to drum like that, so he couldn't. That's not to say he ever needed to. Even without all the ridiclous limb coordination, multi-pedal orchestrations, polyrhythms and whatnot he was still 1000 times the drummer Thomas Lang will ever be.

[nhzoso]

Ahhh Buddy Rich, the great drummer with a low life attitude towards people.. What a shmuck. I hope in his day someone actually stood up to him and put him in his place. Maybe even dotted his eye for him. I guarantee he would have remembered Bonham in a whole new light had he said that to his face.

[onemat]

Read an interesting quote from Buddy Rich in an article from on the more recent issues of Modern Drummer.

I can't recall the name of the drummer who the article was about but in it he mentions that in the 70's he asked Buddy what he thought about Bonham. Buddy according to the article proceeded to sit down at the kit and do a spot on perfect impersonation of Bonzo and then looked up and said...."John Bonham?.....anybody can do that"

Discuss........................
Matt replies: I have to preface what I'm about to write with this: I loved Buddy Rich. Loved his playing, his technique, loved many or his records. In my humble opinion, Buddy had issues in the people skills department. He could be very negative one minute and warm and funny the next. How he acted, what he said was inconsistent. I've read accounts of him being a sweet guy who would do anything for his pals, musicians, and especially children. And then there was the other side of Buddy's personality, the ego driven, perfectionist side. He knew he was great and he often would let people know he was the best. When asked about Bonzo, his answer came directly from his own ego. That's a shame when any musician slams another. Fortunately, the comment did not stop John Bonham from reaching the stratosphere of rock drumming. When asked about Danny Seraphine he was very positive. Perhaps Buddy picked up on the jazz chops Danny had and did not relate to Bonzo's drumming. Buddy's temper is well documented as well. I'm not a doctor but I know chemical inbalance when I see it, and in my opinion Buddy could have used the happy pills. My father was very much like him, and I've had the same problem. Medication works great. So being both a major fan of Bonzo and of Buddy, I'll take Buddy's comments with a grain of the old salt.
Matt

[burnthehero]

Obviously Buddy was only taking into account how many notes Bonham played. Maybe if he had observed his uncanny talent for grooving and making a song sound larger than life, his oppinion may have been a little different.

Oh well. I know what kind of a guy Buddy was, so it really doesn't surprise me that he would say something like that about a rock drummer.

[Elvin4ever]

Matt replies: I have to preface what I'm about to write with this: I loved Buddy Rich. Loved his playing, his technique, loved many or his records. In my humble opinion, Buddy had issues in the people skills department. He could be very negative one minute and warm and funny the next. How he acted, what he said was inconsistent. I've read accounts of him being a sweet guy who would do anything for his pals, musicians, and especially children. And then there was the other side of Buddy's personality, the ego driven, perfectionist side. He knew he was great and he often would let people know he was the best. When asked about Bonzo, his answer came directly from his own ego. That's a shame when any musician slams another. Fortunately, the comment did not stop John Bonham from reaching the stratosphere of rock drumming. When asked about Danny Seraphine he was very positive. Perhaps Buddy picked up on the jazz chops Danny had and did not relate to Bonzo's drumming. Buddy's temper is well documented as well. I'm not a doctor but I know chemical inbalance when I see it, and in my opinion Buddy could have used the happy pills. My father was very much like him, and I've had the same problem. Medication works great. So being both a major fan of Bonzo and of Buddy, I'll take Buddy's comments with a grain of the old salt.
Matt
This is a good post, and I agree with every bit of it.

I saw both sides of him and still loved the guy. When I was young, he treated me great. Rich supposedly hired Matt Smith's dad three times and fired him twice. Tom once said that had he on one ocassion moved an inch to the left, the guy behind him would have been fired instead. Still, he still evaluates Rich as one would perceive a god. In other words, he disliked the guy but deferrred to the talent. I do not believe that is so hard to understand.

I see a lot of commentary about the negative side of Rich's personality, as if being nice to people shares an interrelationship with talent. We must first understand Rich's own upbringing. He was required to submit product when most of us are still in diapers. He learned his initial lessons from notorious taskmasters like Tommy Dorsey and Artie Shaw...men who never asked nor gave any quarter. Then he watched first hand how disciplinary lapses wiped out performing colleagues and friends like Charlie Parker, Charlie Ventura and Art Pepper. In the case of Ventura, he tried to help him several times, only to have Charlie acuse him of stealing his band, when nothing could have been farther from the truth.

Sure he was a jerk. But he grew up in an era when anything less than your best was not enough. I am certain he would be appalled by this recently evolved incessant need to stroke fellow musicians whether they deserve it or not. Of course he went too far, and Matt is right. Prozac would have helped, but it also would have taken some edge off his playing. I applaud the perfectionist tendencies, although I can never condone the approach. Still, these guys would take the abuse and keep coming back for more. That alone speaks volumes.

[photon]

As great as Bonham was, personally I don't think he is in the same league as Buddy...

[Bernhard]

The only interesting part in this is:

Must somebody be a jerk to be a good drummer?

The answer is: NO

So I enjoy Buddys drumming - which is definitively great....

...and I'm not interested what he did or said thirty years ago on a bad day.

Very cold coffee - but his drumming will stay forever.

Bernhard

[photon]

..as will Bonzo's...unfortunately and unlike Bonham and Buddy when I'm gone my drumming dies with me......

[dothecrunge]

I think of Buddy playing in front of maybe a thousand people, in a small club somewhere in Idaho. I think of Bonzo playing in front of 75,000 people at the Pontiac Silverdome.

Imagine yourself as Buddy, and then imagine yourself as Bonzo. I think more people would have liked to have been in Bonzo's place, rather than Buddy's.

[photon]

What he said!...

I would imagine that Buddy must have been jealous of the adulation of those famous rock drummers like Bonzo, Ringo...the list goes on and on, while Buddy toiled in relative obscurity...

[Elvin4ever]

What he said!...

I would imagine that Buddy must have been jealous of the adulation of those famous rock drummers like Bonzo, Ringo...the list goes on and on, while Buddy toiled in relative obscurity...

Photon, being in your 40s, you have to know that saying Rich toiled in relative obscurity is seriously overstating. He was a regular on all the major talk shows of the sixties and early seventies, back when American television had only three stations. This included his recurring open door role on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show (the most celebrated entertainment venue on American television). He even starred in a CBS variety show called Away We Go with George Carlin of all people, where he actually did comedy, and was good at it. In other words, Rich was seen by millions of people almost every week, for at least twenty years. Did LZ ever perform on television? I'm not saying they didn't. I just don't remember.

Honestly, (at least in America) Bonham was only well known by a singular (although large and enthusiastic) demographic. All the saying to the contrary doesn't change that...and has been refuted many times on this and other threads. In fact, he was not even the most famous rock drummer at the time (although I agree with most of you that he was the best of that group). Starr, Appice, Watts and even guys like Buddy Miles were far better known. Moreover, people forget how popular Chicago was. They also were filling football stadiums and appearing on television. This made Serraphine a big deal indeed.

I mean this in all sincerity. Rich's name recognition was probably second only to Ringo's during the period in question. There were people who knew about Rich because of the television alone...and a lot of these people knew nothing of his drumming... but knew him. Back then, Bonham was the biggest to you. But I doubt your parents had heard of him. At the same time, I'll bet your parents, your grandparents, and all the uncles you only see at Christmas had heard of Rich, and chances are good that none of them cared much for jazz. Now that's fame.

Like him or not, give credit where credit is due.

[Bernhard]

Elvin4ever:

So it is - amen!!!!


Bernhard

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Photon, being in your 40s, you have to know that saying Rich toiled in relative obscurity is seriously overstating. He was a regular on all the major talk shows of the sixties and early seventies, back when American television had only three stations. This included his recurring open door role on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show (the most celebrated entertainment venue on American television). He even starred in a CBS variety show called Away We Go with George Carlin of all people, where he actually did comedy, and was good at it. In other words, Rich was seen by millions of people almost every week, for at least twenty years. Did LZ ever perform on television? I'm not saying they didn't. I just don't remember.

Honestly, (at least in America) Bonham was only well known by a singular (although large and enthusiastic) demographic. All the saying to the contrary doesn't change that...and has been refuted many times on this and other threads. In fact, he was not even the most famous rock drummer at the time (although I agree with most of you that he was the best of that group). Starr, Appice, Watts and even guys like Buddy Miles were far better known. Moreover, people forget how popular Chicago was. They also were filling football stadiums and appearing on television. This made Serraphine a big deal indeed.

I mean this in all sincerity. Rich's name recognition was probably second only to Ringo's during the period in question. There were people who knew about Rich because of the television alone...and a lot of these people knew nothing of his drumming... but knew him. Back then, Bonham was the biggest to you. But I doubt your parents had heard of him. At the same time, I'll bet your parents, your grandparents, and all the uncles you only see at Christmas had heard of Rich, and chances are good that none of them cared much for jazz. Now that's fame.

Like him or not, give credit where credit is due.

Very correct, Elvin. But it's probably also true that Buddy was a bit angry and jealous by the spontaneos Rock 'n roll success and everything else. Seems like if Buddy only started to care about Rock more or less by secretly watching some of Bonham's immense gimmicks and very nice grooves and unique sounds... of course his admited greatest names in Rock history are of other people's and not Bonham, but heh... that's a little predictable - I guess. Buddy was very popular back in the 50's/60's and mainly, 70's and 80's but he, indeed, was a bit jealous about the amount of people that showed up at some Jazz concerts and the "same" amount in the Rock ones...

A little off-topic but heh.. I love Peart's quote of "you see the phrase 'Buddy Rich, the world's greatest drummer' and you don't REanalyse it, you just accept it as a fact" - or something close to it.

What an honour for him.

- Ivo.

[photon]

I hear you Elvin...and actually it was the Tonight Show that introduced me to Buddy Rich when I was young...

[onemat]

I would have to say that Buddy had a extremely long career and was a household word long before Bonham arrived on earth.When Rock and Pop music became the most popular music, it displaced the jazz industry, which was "Americas Most Popular Music" for decades. It also put many players out of work. This may also be part of why Buddy had an attitude about rock music and it's drummers. Most of us would be quite happy having a career playing the tubs, that is making a living doing what we love. I'm happy just playing, whether it's for 20 people or 1000, it doesn't matter to me.
What could have been for Buddy: It's too bad Bill Graham didn't book the Buddy Rich Band and The Ellington and Basie bands into the Filmore the way he booked BB King, Miles Davis and other non-rock acts. Can you imagine Buddy Rich sharing the bill with Hendrix and the Dead? It would have been very good for Buddy and the band. Record sales would have skyrocketed. I have many friends from that era. Along with the rock staples in their album collections, they bought records by BB King, Albert King, Booker T and the M.G.s, Otis Redding, all thanks to Bill Graham. I got into BB King and many other blues artists because I saw him in a 3-way show with the Airplane and The Who at Tangelwood Mass, the weekend before Woodstock, August 1969! I was 14 years old and ran out and got "BB King Live at the Regal", and later "Indianola Mississippi Seeds" a year later. I got my musical horizons broadened many times in the late sixties and into the seventies. My Dad had me listening to Basie and Ellington but I didn't discover Buddy until years later. Stir in the first two Led Zep Lps, a little "Electric Lady Land, and "Wheels Of Fire", I think I was a pretty hip young man.
Ahh the good old days... :)
Matt

[Shamoo]

I believe the drummer who made this comment was the guy from the Strawberry Alarmclock. When his pop career faded he became a recording engineer and worked with both BR and Bonham, though his work with Bonham was limited to a quick sit down on another drummers kit while they were getting sounds up for a SwanSong band. To his credit he did say that even though the kit was a small pop kit "it still sounded like Bonham" but all this is just pure heresay. He seemed to feel that Bonham was over-rated, I think he was jealous of Johns career and used BRs opinions, of which there are many, to prove his point. Hey, Zep, or the Strawberry Alarmclock, take yer pick. I did read that Kathy Rich, Buddys daughter, took her father backstage to a Zeppelin show, and it didn't go that well, anyone else heard this one?

[onemat]

I believe the drummer who made this comment was the guy from the Strawberry Alarmclock. When his pop career faded he became a recording engineer and worked with both BR and Bonham, though his work with Bonham was limited to a quick sit down on another drummers kit while they were getting sounds up for a SwanSong band.

The drummer in question was probably Randy Seol who was in the chair for Strawberry Alarm Clock's one and only hit record. However, the Alarm Clock's guitarist name was Ed King who went on to a little band known as Lynyrd Skynyrd. I've heard the story of Cathy Rich taking Buddy to a Led Zep show too. What a missed oportunity, Rich & Bonham performing solos together..how cool would that be?
Matt

[Elvin4ever]

The drummer in question was probably Randy Seol who was in the chair for Strawberry Alarm Clock's one and only hit record. However, the Alarm Clock's guitarist name was Ed King who went on to a little band known as Lynyrd Skynyrd. I've heard the story of Cathy Rich taking Buddy to a Led Zep show too. What a missed oportunity, Rich & Bonham performing solos together..how cool would that be?
Matt

Because the BR band performed so many school clinics back then (the band's main income), Buddy was asked similar questions hundreds of times. Therefore a lot of us share similar stories. It might surprise people to learn (as has already been stated here) that Rich was good with kids. So more than a few were always around.

Many over 40 guys recall big bands like Rich, Woody Herman and Stan Kenton visiting high schools, where they would do clinics in the afternoon, and a concert at night. The local high school band (usually the sponsor) most often served as warmup. This was easy for us, since we were all playing the Rich, Herman, Kenton charts anyway. This was pretty common back then. Moreover, the clinic questions were always the same in all the bands.

I remember (in the tenth grade) seeing an 18 year old Peter Erskine play with Kenton, and drummers were asking him to play like Bonham, do Seraphine from 25 or 6 to 4...all that stuff. Therefore, no one person has an exclusive on these stories. But when you're a kid, and a famous drummer talked to you, it felt like he was talking to you and you alone.

Nowadays with all this new found interest in guys like Bonham, Moon etc, I suppose a lot of guys recall this stuff. If Rich heard this question from Seol, you can rest assured he had his routine down based on the thousands of times he had already performed it for the kids.

Honestly, I don't think there was all this secretly admiring, studying stuff. Rich was simply asked these questions so often, that he learmed enough to do the routine and threw in his inevitable comments as time went on.

[dothecrunge]

I believe the drummer who made this comment was the guy from the Strawberry Alarmclock. When his pop career faded he became a recording engineer and worked with both BR and Bonham, though his work with Bonham was limited to a quick sit down on another drummers kit while they were getting sounds up for a SwanSong band. To his credit he did say that even though the kit was a small pop kit "it still sounded like Bonham" but all this is just pure heresay. He seemed to feel that Bonham was over-rated, I think he was jealous of Johns career and used BRs opinions, of which there are many, to prove his point. Hey, Zep, or the Strawberry Alarmclock, take yer pick. I did read that Kathy Rich, Buddys daughter, took her father backstage to a Zeppelin show, and it didn't go that well, anyone else heard this one?

Kathy took Buddy to thier last concert in 1973. July 29th, 1973, Madison Square Garden. Yep, the same concert in The Song Remains the Same.

I highly doubt that Kathy Rich had backstage access, and I also highly doubt that Buddy Rich would've even wanted to go backstage to meet these "incompetant musicians" as he was probably mumbling to himself when he was at the show. If anything, Bonzo might've wanted to meet him, but from all these stories, Buddy would've told him to go screw himself.

Although, I have heard of maybe one or two incidents where Bonzo and Buddy met, but that's it. No other details.

[foursticks]

I doubt that buddy would have told bonzo to screw himself.... the man isn't THAT bad, but it would be more bonzo wanting to meet buddy rather than buddy wanting to meet bonzo, after all buddy did influence bonzo.....

[Fur drummer]

From what I've heard and read about him that sounds like something Buddy would say and do. As someone said the fact that he even knew who Bonham was says a lot. How old was Buddy when he said and did this? 50 or 60 something? I don't think to many people that age were listening to Led Zeppelin.

[Pete Stoltman]

[QUOTE=onemat]I It's too bad Bill Graham didn't book the Buddy Rich Band and The Ellington and Basie bands into the Filmore the way he booked BB King, Miles Davis and other non-rock acts. Can you imagine Buddy Rich sharing the bill with Hendrix and the Dead? It would have been very good for Buddy and the band. Record sales would have skyrocketed.

Are you sure he didn't? I thought I remembered seeing an old Filmore poster with Buddy on the bill. I also remember him opening the show for the Who at the Kinetic Playground in Chicago. Pretty sure that was during the first Tommy tour. Buddy was not only a drummer but also a businessman. He obviously recognized the commercial value of rock music by including arrangements of rock tunes in his set. In fact I think his was the first big band to do rock. Norwegian Wood is one of my favorite arrangements from that era. It opened the door for Maynard and Woody among others to venture into the rock genre.

[Pete Stoltman]

Curiousity got the best of me and did a little searching. Without having to dig too deep I found that Buddy and his band played the Fillmore East on Oct. 4,1968 and Jan. 17,1969. He also played Fillmore West on March 12, 1970. There may have been other dates but those were the ones that I found. Interestingly, also spotted a listing for Count Basie at the Fillmore West on Aug. 21 & 22 1967. A real surprise was seeing the amazing vibist Gary Burton sharing the bill with Cream and Electric Flag in 67. Bill Graham obviously had a very eclectic sense of booking.

[onemat]

Curiousity got the best of me and did a little searching. Without having to dig too deep I found that Buddy and his band played the Fillmore East on Oct. 4,1968 and Jan. 17,1969. He also played Fillmore West on March 12, 1970. There may have been other dates but those were the ones that I found. Interestingly, also spotted a listing for Count Basie at the Fillmore West on Aug. 21 & 22 1967. A real surprise was seeing the amazing vibist Gary Burton sharing the bill with Cream and Electric Flag in 67. Bill Graham obviously had a very eclectic sense of booking.

I stand corrected. I just never heard about it. Perhaps the reason BB King, Albert King, . Albert Collins, and others benefited more from appearing at rock shows is the obvious relationship of the blues and rock music. Many rock acts were playing their versions of great blues tunes. I would imagine Buddy blew away a few concert goers and generated some record sales in the process.
This has been a very good thread...
Matt

[macktavish]

When I first got into Buddy, I was amazed by his solos, but now I focus on how musical he was and the way he kicked the band. In my opinion, Buddy was as great a musician as he was a soloist. Check out Buddies Big Band at the Montreaux Jazz Festival (on DVD). To me that is some of his best playing.. He had everything great time, dynamics, musical sensitivity, and creativeness. Another tune I love...just pure swing no solos, is Big Swing Face on the album by the same name.

[Zardoz]

I bought 'Buddy Rich: At The Top' dvd tonight. Good concert, with some cool bonus solos and t.v. appearances.

It also claims to have a "blazing solo from a performance on The Mark Of Jazz, from December 1974", yet it's really just an interview from Sid Mark's show. While it's hilarious and showcases Rich's humorous side.....argh! I hate false advertising.......

Besides what macktavish just suggested, what are some must-have Rich dvd's?

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

While Buddy Rich, maybe, could NOT perform all the "gimmicks" performed by Mr. Lang, the otherwise is also true: Mr. Thomas could NEVER, EVER play like Buddy played. To perform such awe-inspiring cymbals-solos with his fast/light-speed, invisible hands, that cannot be duplicated too... never in the same elegant, sensitive and stylish way. NEVER. It's not all about technique but also his natural/neural spontaneous creativity that was (and still IS, to an extent, imo) unmatched.

Zardoz - I recommend you tryin' to get "Jazz Legends - 1970/1987 - BUDDY RICH" and the '82 video at the "MONTREAL JAZZ FESTIVAL", and while they're both great, they STILL don't make total justice to Buddy... as I have some rare, amateur-camera like, videos of Buddy outperforming, really OVERplaying his own self and playing as like in a maniac's dream. INSANE. :-)

One thing that should not be forgotten is that Buddy's best moments were NOT recorded on cameras, they're were recorded inside the andience's eternal recalls of "those special, really eternal nites...".

- Ivo.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Its very simple here.. He was a natural born talent PERIOD. He could have played anything if he wanted to. Jazz has the elements from all genres rolled in to one. It has moments of 4/4 rock feel (if you listen) and time wise is all over the charts as we all know. Saying he could not cop a rock feel with groove to me is like saying he couldnt play at all. Have you really listened to his work on the albums or are you juts judging from what you have seen or heard on the net which is mostly him soloing. He was a freak of nature period.

[Class A Drummer]

Another crazy buddy rich video. hope you guys like it as much as i do.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mQwBdHsVGag&search=buddy%20rich

[Henry II]

Another crazy buddy rich video. hope you guys like it as much as i do.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mQwBdHsVGag&search=buddy%20rich

Buddy did not look well at all in that video. You can really see the strain on his face even though he was still able to play a lot of his signature stuff. He died of brain cancer shortly after.

[Liquid_Drummer]

Anyone know what year that video of him on the Frank Sinatra special is from ?

[Clark]

It's from 1982. Buddy had a heart attack shortly after this. He was not well.
His playing was better than ever. Buddy ALWAYS played great!!

[dougalmac]

I gotta tell you, I've read some pretty silly nonsense regarding Buddy Rich on a lot of these posts. Buddy was the best drummer to play ever, period. The fact that he had an ego was irrelevant. Buddy knew he was phenomenally talented, and he wasn't ashamed or shy about saying it. Since when is being humble and self-effacing a requirement for being talented at something? You may not like it, but he could back it up whenever he played. I saw Buddy countless times on "The Tonight Show" with Johnny Carson in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. He was always innovative, brilliant, and amazing. Of course he wasn't perfect, he was human. But, Gene Krupa, who defined drums and soloing in the 30's said Buddy "was the greatest drummer to ever draw breath." And Krupa was a master. Buddy had immense respect for Gene, and they were very close friends. As far as different styles are concerned, if Buddy heard any Latin lick or groove, he could have played it. There's a famous story about Buddy's big band being hired to open for the lastest rock band phenom in the 60's at the Fillmore West. The rock band insisted that Buddy open their show, even after Bill Graham suggested to them that they should show deference to Buddy and let his big band close the show. The rock band refused, and Buddy proceeded to blow them off the stage totally. The next night the rock band insisted that Buddy and his band close the show. Now there are a ton of highly skilled, talented drummers out there today: Steve Gadd, Terry Bozzio, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Chad Wackerman, Steve Smith, and the list goes on and on. But I've seen Buddy do things on the drums that I've NEVER seen any other drummer duplicate period. His left hand was unGodly. His independence was freakish. I've watched countless videos and performances of Buddy, and there's just no denying it-there is nobody better on drums I've ever seen. And I mean no disrespect to any of the amazing drummers out there playing today, some of whom I've mentioned here. Their talent and playing ability is phenomenal. But I tell you, Buddy could get up beside any of them on a drum kit, in his prime, and floor them with moves that would make your jaw drop. Buddy was one of a kind, and his like will never be seen again. I've played drums for 37 years, I've run camera on "Austin City Limits" for 29 years, and I've seen just about every major drummer from the 60's through the present day. I've been privileged to see some amazing, unbelieveable drummers and their performances. And without hesitation, I still say Buddy Rich was better than any other drummer I've ever seen. By the way, has anybody noticed that Buddy has more videos on his "Drummerworld" site than any other drummer?

[Elvin4ever]

I gotta tell you, I've read some pretty silly nonsense regarding Buddy Rich on a lot of these posts. Buddy was the best drummer to play ever, period. The fact that he had an ego was irrelevant. Buddy knew he was phenomenally talented, and he wasn't ashamed or shy about saying it. Since when is being humble and self-effacing a requirement for being talented at something? You may not like it, but he could back it up whenever he played. I saw Buddy countless times on "The Tonight Show" with Johnny Carson in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. He was always innovative, brilliant, and amazing. Of course he wasn't perfect, he was human. But, Gene Krupa, who defined drums and soloing in the 30's said Buddy "was the greatest drummer to ever draw breath." And Krupa was a master. Buddy had immense respect for Gene, and they were very close friends. As far as different styles are concerned, if Buddy heard any Latin lick or groove, he could have played it. There's a famous story about Buddy's big band being hired to open for the lastest rock band phenom in the 60's at the Fillmore West. The rock band insisted that Buddy open their show, even after Bill Graham suggested to them that they should show deference to Buddy and let his big band close the show. The rock band refused, and Buddy proceeded to blow them off the stage totally. The next night the rock band insisted that Buddy and his band close the show. Now there are a ton of highly skilled, talented drummers out there today: Steve Gadd, Terry Bozzio, Dave Weckl, Vinnie Colaiuta, Chad Wackerman, Steve Smith, and the list goes on and on. But I've seen Buddy do things on the drums that I've NEVER seen any other drummer duplicate period. His left hand was unGodly. His independence was freakish. I've watched countless videos and performances of Buddy, and there's just no denying it-there is nobody better on drums I've ever seen. And I mean no disrespect to any of the amazing drummers out there playing today, some of whom I've mentioned here. Their talent and playing ability is phenomenal. But I tell you, Buddy could get up beside any of them on a drum kit, in his prime, and floor them with moves that would make your jaw drop. Buddy was one of a kind, and his like will never be seen again. I've played drums for 37 years, I've run camera on "Austin City Limits" for 29 years, and I've seen just about every major drummer from the 60's through the present day. I've been privileged to see some amazing, unbelieveable drummers and their performances. And without hesitation, I still say Buddy Rich was better than any other drummer I've ever seen. By the way, has anybody noticed that Buddy has more videos on his "Drummerworld" site than any other drummer?
This is the greatest Buddy Rich post ever seen on drummerworld. It sums up perfectly what so many of us older guys feel everytime we see inane comments like all he had was chops, he always played his solos out of time, he was great for his era, he couldn't lay down real grooves, he would suck in a real rock band etc, etc, etc... .

Dougalmac may not be aware of the revisionist history seen frequently on drum forums where Rich is still considered great but with disclaimers, judged almost entirely on four or five videos that I have stated at least a thousand times are not even close to what he actually was.

Day after day we witness teenage fans who argue incessantly, with no regard for idealogical comprehension and/or possess the tools necessary to make such judgements. Instead they rail on that Rich support is a kind of props for an older generation that neither appreciates nor understands the nuances of their misunderstood heroes, as if any comparison does justice to historical accuracy. I have even seen posts where I am told that Rich could not hold his own with DCI drummers, had lousy brushwork, or could not lay down a good groove.

For the last time...from the perspective of American 20th Century drum set playing alone...

Rich could groove any way he desired.

He could play any music he chose to play at the highest possible level, and could perform said task without the need for practice.

He was the fastest.

His cymbal work was the absolute standard.

His brush work was at least as good as Shelly Manne's.

Yes, he would have been great with absolutely any band of any style or genre.

No these are NOT opinions. They are quantatative and qualitative assessments based on many years of educational analysis, and thousands of hours of acute observation.

Am I saying that Rich walked on water?

Yes, I am saying that. He was a Mozart like prodigal freak of nature, whose likes may not be seen again for decades to come.

He may not be your favorite. Check out my handle. He wasn't mine. But he was the best...and during his lifetime, no one and I mean n-o o-n-e dared claim otherwise.

[DogBreath]

Buddy was the best drummer to play ever, period. The fact that he had an ego was irrelevant.


Rich could groove any way he desired.

He could play any music he chose to play at the highest possible level, and could perform said task without the need for practice.

He was the fastest.

His cymbal work was the absolute standard.
Sounds like you both agree with most of what has already ben posted in this thread. You did notice that the name of the thread is "The Grandmaster Buddy Rich"?

[toteman2]

This is the greatest Buddy Rich post ever seen on drummerworld. It sums up perfectly what so many of us older guys feel everytime we see inane comments like all he had was chops, he always played his solos out of time, he was great for his era, he couldn't lay down real grooves, he would suck in a real rock band etc, etc, etc... .

Dougalmac may not be aware of the revisionist history seen frequently on drum forums where Rich is still considered great but with disclaimers, judged almost entirely on four or five videos that I have stated at least a thousand times are not even close to what he actually was.

Day after day we witness teenage fans who argue incessantly, with no regard for idealogical comprehension and/or possess the tools necessary to make such judgements. Instead they rail on that Rich support is a kind of props for an older generation that neither appreciates nor understands the nuances of their misunderstood heroes, as if any comparison does justice to historical accuracy. I have even seen posts where I am told that Rich could not hold his own with DCI drummers, had lousy brushwork, or could not lay down a good groove.

For the last time...from the perspective of American 20th Century drum set playing alone...

Rich could groove any way he desired.

He could play any music he chose to play at the highest possible level, and could perform said task without the need for practice.

He was the fastest.

His cymbal work was the absolute standard.

His brush work was at least as good as Shelly Manne's.

Yes, he would have been great with absolutely any band of any style or genre.

No these are NOT opinions. They are quantatative and qualitative assessments based on many years of educational analysis, and thousands of hours of acute observation.

Am I saying that Rich walked on water?

Yes, I am saying that. He was a Mozart like prodigal freak of nature, whose likes may not be seen again for decades to come.

He may not be your favorite. Check out my handle. He wasn't mine. But he was the best...and during his lifetime, no one and I mean n-o o-n-e dared claim otherwise.

I'm gonna have to let you stand alone on this one Elvin...I have nothing but 100% respect and admireation for Buddy, but I think you went overboard on this one...

Yes they are opinions and nothing more...we all respect your opinions, or at least I do...IMO Buddy was the greatest and most impressive drummer of HIS TIME...

I know your 100% serious...But when you start thowing out speculations such as "He could play any music he chose to play at the highest possible level, and could perform said task without the need for practice.", you kindda start lossing me...

[Elvin4ever]

Sounds like you both agree with most of what has already ben posted in this thread. You did notice that the name of the thread is "The Grandmaster Buddy Rich"?
I respect that Dogbreath. But even on a thread of such vaunted title, 16 posts from the last page alone either debated the veracity of the total Rich legacy or openly sought to identify an imagined weakness. It's a strange twist of fate considering his almost untouchable status just a decade ago.

Over the years I have noticed the respectful level and diversified nature of the adamant Rich support base. This is in stark contrast to the cult based factions observed on other threads, who seem interested in their hero and their hero alone, and in doing so contribute little to the totality of drum set experience. I have never met a true Rich supporter who did not admire and respect the whole picture, and because of their diversified nature contributed mightily to the overall percussion based landscape.

The Rich legacy that makes such good works possible, rests on the totemic status of its leader. IMO, for that reason alone, historical inaccuracies tarnish the ongoing progress of the genre as a whole.

[mattsmith]

I'm gonna have to let you stand alone on this one Elvin...I have nothing but 100% respect and admireation for Buddy, but I think you went overboard on this one...

Yes they are opinions and nothing more...we all respect your opinions, or at least I do...IMO Buddy was the greatest and most impressive drummer of HIS TIME...

I know your 100% serious...But when you start thowing out speculations such as "He could play any music he chose to play at the highest possible level, and could perform said task without the need for practice.", you kindda start lossing me...
Its somethin' about being around him I think Totem. Elvin knew him as a kid and he saw him a bunch. My dad played in his band and hated his guts. People say he even got in a cussing match with him one time. But dad worships him as a player and talks just like Elvin about him. When people talk about other drummers bein' better than him, dad just thinks thats funny.

The "saw him up close people" see him almost like he was a magic man. He had a spell on people I think. I don't think the Bonham hardcores are as hardcore and they have better videos to draw from. The old school is right. If you want to understand Buddy's greatness listen to recordings and stay off the video. they're good but not as good as that stuff.

But still, I don't know totem. Maybe they're right. Like your sayin' Buddy was the best in "his time.' But wasn't his time the greatest time for drummers ever? About the opinions, can't people actually figure out whose best based on standards we all accept? I don't know man. I need to think about this.

[Class A Drummer]

I think i heard something pop up that buddy could play any genre and would be the best ever in that genre period. I disagree. Just sayin i think Peart is the best rock drummer in history and buddy wouldnt be as good for the genre.

[DogBreath]

I respect that Dogbreath. But even on a thread of such vaunted title, 16 posts from the last page alone either debated the veracity of the total Rich legacy or openly sought to identify an imagined weakness.
So the vast majority of the members here hold Buddy Rich in the highest regard, and a few say things like maybe Buddy Rich wasn't the best at every possible musical style or he might not have had the fastest hands ever or that maybe some drummers today have better four-way independence. I can live with that.

[toteman2]

Its somethin' about being around him I think Totem. Elvin knew him as a kid and he saw him a bunch. My dad played in his band and hated his guts. People say he even got in a cussing match with him one time. But dad worships him as a player and talks just like Elvin about him. When people talk about other drummers bein' better than him, dad just thinks thats funny.

The "saw him up close people" see him almost like he was a magic man. He had a spell on people I think. I don't think the Bonham hardcores are as hardcore and they have better videos to draw from. The old school is right. If you want to understand Buddy's greatness listen to recordings and stay off the video. they're good but not as good as that stuff.

But still, I don't know totem. Maybe they're right. Like your sayin' Buddy was the best in "his time.' But wasn't his time the greatest time for drummers ever? About the opinions, can't people actually figure out whose best based on standards we all accept? I don't know man. I need to think about this.

I can totally see the "up close" effect Buddy could've left on people back in the day no doubt...I mean NOBODY was doing the things Buddy was doing back then, and then you actually witness it...I must have been breathtaking...I see "oldschollers" regaurding Buddy as the best there ever will be as kind of a Babe Ruth effect...I talk to alot of old baseball buffs who all reaguard Babe Ruth as the best ever, and I argue with them non-stop...Babe Ruth was the best of HIS TIME...The game has evolved so much since then...You have athletes who excell in almost every phase of the game, and they have to do it agaist much better competition...

Do I beleive that Buddy's time was the greatest time for drummers ever? Not at all...I think we're living in that time right now...The explosion of "over the top" drummers in the last 10 years is like it has never been...The advancements in the industry are at a level never sceen before, and we happen to live in a time where soooo many drummers are able to share information and communicate with one another (hence drummerworld)...Drumming has been going nowhere but up since Buddy, and Buddy has ALOT to do with that...The standards he set were able to push drumming to where it is today...IMO it's at a much higher level...

And IMO I don't think we can ever say who is the BEST...Drumming is far to wide open to limitless options to say who is best...

[mattsmith]

I can totally see the "up close" effect Buddy could've left on people back in the day no doubt...I mean NOBODY was doing the things Buddy was doing back then, and then you actually witness it...I must have been breathtaking...I see "oldschollers" regaurding Buddy as the best there ever will be as kind of a Babe Ruth effect...I talk to alot of old baseball buffs who all reaguard Babe Ruth as the best ever, and I argue with them non-stop...Babe Ruth was the best of HIS TIME...The game has evolved so much since then...You have athletes who excell in almost every phase of the game, and they have to do it agaist much better competition...

Do I beleive that Buddy's time was the greatest time for drummers ever? Not at all...I think we're living in that time right now...The explosion of "over the top" drummers in the last 10 years is like it has never been...The advancements in the industry are at a level never sceen before, and we happen to live in a time where soooo many drummers are able to share information and communicate with one another (hence drummerworld)...Drumming has been going nowhere but up since Buddy, and Buddy has ALOT to do with that...The standards he set were able to push drumming to where it is today...IMO it's at a much higher level...

And IMO I don't think we can ever say who is the BEST...Drumming is far to wide open to limitless options to say who is best...
I have to disagree on these things totem. I don't think our time is even 10% as good as the drummer peaks in the 60s and 70s. All of those top guys then were the great innovators. Nowadays I just don't hear innovators, which is like guys who are doin' something to push a unique sound or voice along with their great technique and skills. Today I hear alot of "chops guys" but nothing that hasn't already been done before in some other way.

Sometimes it sounds like a bunch of great drummers were all smashed together to create some mutant named Vinnie Hellhammer Donati. But they still sound like pieces of old stuff. This doesn't mean they don't play the drums super great. But I don't see any of these guys turning into immortals that get talked about like people go on about Bonham and Rich. Maybe Chambers, but I don't know. I just don't see the old magic dust today. And I don't count Gadd in this because he's really part of this same older age where Rich comes from. He just comes from the end of that.

When I was at NAMM a couple of months ago, I got to hear all these big guys, the ones everybodys all into now. But to me they were all masters but kinda sounded real similar. They had incredible chops but were not innovators. Nothing got me like when I hear Elvin Jones, Rashied Ali or Tony Williams, Morrello or John Bonham, Buddy or Louie Bellson before he got sick. One thing about today is there seems to be more guys goin' around to the music stores and such. Thats why i think some people think its a bigger scene now. But back in the older time big guys played in schools and there isn't as much of that now. That was probably something that left a bigger mark.

I think people now feel like there missin' something. Wouldnt this be why there is all this Gadd worship now?

BTW Babe Ruth was the greatest. Because he was also the greatest lefty pitcher of his time too. A 94-46 record for a nine inning per game starter aint bad for the greatest hitter. Nobody today can do that.

[toteman2]

I have to disagree on these things totem. I don't think our time is even 10% as good as the drummer peaks in the 60s and 70s. All of those top guys then were the great innovators. Nowadays I just don't hear innovators, which is like guys who are doin' something to push a unique sound or voice along with their great technique and skills. Today I hear alot of "chops guys" but nothing that hasn't already been done before in some other way.

Sometimes it sounds like a bunch of great drummers were all smashed together to create some mutant named Vinnie Hellhammer Donati. But they still sound like pieces of old stuff. This doesn't mean they don't play the drums super great. But I don't see any of these guys turning into immortals that get talked about like people go on about Bonham and Rich. Maybe Chambers, but I don't know. I just don't see the old magic dust today. And I don't count Gadd in this because he's really part of this same older age where Rich comes from. He just comes from the end of that.

When I was at NAMM a couple of months ago, I got to hear all these big guys, the ones everybodys all into now. But to me they were all masters but kinda sounded real similar. They had incredible chops but were not innovators. Nothing got me like when I hear Elvin Jones, Rashied Ali or Tony Williams, Morrello or John Bonham, Buddy or Louie Bellson before he got sick. One thing about today is there seems to be more guys goin' around to the music stores and such. Thats why i think some people think its a bigger scene now. But back in the older time big guys played in schools and there isn't as much of that now. That was probably something that left a bigger mark.

I think people now feel like there missin' something. Wouldnt this be why there is all this Gadd worship now?

BTW Babe Ruth was the greatest. Because he was also the greatest lefty pitcher of his time too. A 94-46 record for a nine inning per game starter aint bad for the greatest hitter. Nobody today can do that.


Always liberating to view the world through the eyes of another...Especially when it's from someone as young and as talented as yourself Matt...This converstation could go on until the end of time. I don't even want to get into Babe Ruth and oldschool baseball lol...We just see things differently on this subject...I think one thing we really do agree on is that Buddy rules...

[mattsmith]

Always liberating to view the world through the eyes of another...Especially when it's from someone as young and as talented as yourself Matt...This converstation could go on until the end of time. I don't even want to get into Babe Ruth and oldschool baseball lol...We just see things differently on this subject...I think one thing we really do agree on is that Buddy rules...
Aw come on man. These guys today like Barry Bonds could have never made it back then. The first time Bonds ever mouthed off like he does now, Satchel Page and Josh Gibson would have drug him behind a tree and beat a hole in him. How many homers would steroid dude have hit then? (lol)

Youre right man we will have to disagree on this and walk away for now. I think innovation is the reason a great musiciam walks the earth. Some have other ideas. But I'll respect that.

[Henry II]

I think i heard something pop up that buddy could play any genre and would be the best ever in that genre period. I disagree. Just sayin i think Peart is the best rock drummer in history and buddy wouldnt be as good for the genre.

Oy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elvin4ever]

I think i heard something pop up that buddy could play any genre and would be the best ever in that genre period. I disagree. Just sayin i think Peart is the best rock drummer in history and buddy wouldnt be as good for the genre.
Ahhhhhh...to be young.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Then prepare to eat thy words and humble thyself at the altar of Buddy:

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/62425/...8_buddy_is_61/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/62425/...8_buddy_is_61/)

After seeing this video sooooo many times (everyday many times - a day!) since it was first available on the Buddy Rich official forum (a long time before being available here), I might say very confidently: There was no better snare drum Master technician than Mr. Buddy Rich... not even Mr. Alex Duthart! It cannot be... how??? It's so unbelievable what he does "here"... his spontaneous routines, perfect executions of the most ridiculously difficult hand techniques, eveything is so easy, fast and creative (also inhumanly controlled), he doesn't even look at the drums at all!!! It's truly amazing. I've been studying "all" of Buddy's videos (the ones I've got, of course) and there could'nt be anyone BETTER than him (maybe on league with, but not much more than that). One thing which constantly bugs me is that Buddy quote of him saying that "he is a far better drummer than me" refering to Alex Duthart... I really cannot imagine anyone "a LOT better than him", how could it be? For me it's not humanly possible. Not a LOT better. Definitely. Even less "back in the days...". Just my humble opinion also based on thousands (literally speaking!) of observations and comparasions.

- Ivo.

[DogBreath]

I think i heard something pop up that buddy could play any genre and would be the best ever in that genre period. I disagree. Just sayin i think Peart is the best rock drummer in history and buddy wouldnt be as good for the genre.
I completely agree, and that doesn't take anything away from Buddy.

[LiquidSoul546]

True, but can't you argue that with the vast ability Buddy possesed, it would not be a stretch to say he could very well play most all styles? Not trying to take anything away from any drummer, but Peart has a very good rep at being the best at rock drumming, but to me I kind of think just because Buddy was such a prodigy (bit cocky..haha..) [B]IF[[B]he would have practiced on a variety of levels he probably would have achieved to be pretty good at all styles. I wonder what he would have brought to the "rock" table. I think it might have been too much drums, and not enough music.
peace

[theduke86]

Having refrained from posting in this thread thus far, I will give my opinion.
I've never seen Buddy Rich play live because I was 1 when he passed away. I own numerous recordings that he plays on. I've seen his videos. I think it's safe to say that Buddy Rich is the great drummer to ever pick up a pair of sticks. Just because he didn't play a groove doesn't mean he couldn't. Personally, I think the funk stuff he does is fine. If anyone cares to notice, in "Mercy Mercy Mercy" off Channel One Suite, he plays a basic James Brown type beat, and plays it busy and very, very, very well. There's other stuff- example- he may not have known a traditional 6/8 bembe cowbell pattern but when pressed to do it on Rich vs. Roach he grooved it extremely well..... even if it wasn't textbook correct. He was a true drum virtuoso. He wasn't my favorite- I'd have to say I have transcribed far more Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Roy Haynes, Bill Stewart et al but just the same, I think Buddy was the best. I think Vinnie Colautia (who I also love) is another guy who can really really play. In my mind, the modern Buddy Rich. However, Buddy just had that "X" factor. I have no doubt he could play absolutely anything if pressed to do so. He was a once in a generation prodigy. Much in the likes of Mozart, Paganini, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Keith Jarrett..... Buddy Rich. As good as some of these new drummers are, they won't match Buddy. I love Vinnie more than almost any drummer, but I'll be damned if I'll say he's better than Buddy.

[theduke86]

And as for Babe Ruth, he could hit more than Barry Bonds any day if he was chemically enhanced.
By the way, Go Sox and Big Papi in '06. Second mention to Doc Halladay and the Jays, along with Troy Glaus.
edit: as for lefty pitchers... Give me Whitey Ford with a .690 (!) winning percentage being played against only the best teams in the AL.. 45 career shutouts. Thank you.
PS: Honorable mention to Sandy Koufax in the NL with a .655 winning percentage,2395 strikeouts and 2.75 ERA.

[Stu_Strib]

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but Babe Ruth never faced the likes of Roger Clemens, heh. (also a 'roid rager, perhaps?)

How did we go from BR to BB (Big Baby, Barry Bonds)? Matt, you teenager! Stay on topic ;-)

I hate baseball, I love drums.

[Clark]

Buddy's prime: His last performance. He always got better.

[Class A Drummer]

ok guys here it is. its not as entertaining as the others because buddy only does a cool fill once or 2wice. It starts slow . Gets faster, but still kinda slow. Gets faster and more entertaining as it goes on. About half way it starts gettin a little better to watch.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4FHma2gXmOU&search=buddy%20rich

[theduke86]

I love that video. A great, great showcase of Buddy's musicality. He's playing for Prez and Ella, with a lot of brushes. Very supportive and cool. I love Prez too- it's easy to see where Charlie Parker got some of his stuff.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Yes, there might be better drummers technically speaking nowadays. There might be better/faster drummers (you know, they use double bass technique and such thing...), they might have better chops, but there's one reason for me to always, and I mean always turn automatically back to those Buddy videos... there's no video I see the most than that "channel one" video on here... that's sooo beautiful... the dynamics, the acents he put so delicate to the notes... the sheer creativity and spontaneous combinations and the order he gave to each sequence of notes and the conjunction of the whole thing put together... the total stick control, hiper fast hands, amazing, and I really mean AMAZING cymbal work, there's nothing better than it. Nothing. No pure-chops guy can make me wanna see his videos every single day of my life, and that's exactly the kind of "full-realised-pleasure" I only get when viewing/witnessing/listening to Mr. Buddy Rich. And he did all that with just a simple, basic/classic 9-piece (or something as small) kit...

I'm kind of a newbie to the real quality drummers (not much time has passed since I've discovered guys like Vinnie Colaiuta and Buddy Rich, but I'm really glad I did. They've changed my life forEVER... now I can apreciate the drums exactly (or even more) like I do when listening/watching to a a violin virtuose, the drums can transmit so many distinct sounds and feelings when on the right hands, they really amaze me "now" (more than ever).

Thank you, Mr. Buddy Rich. As much cheezy and corny as it may sound. Indeed.

- Ivo.

[Bernhard]

I love that video. A great, great showcase of Buddy's musicality. He's playing for Prez and Ella, with a lot of brushes. Very supportive and cool. I love Prez too- it's easy to see where Charlie Parker got some of his stuff.

No, sorry, I can't love this video. They destroyed it by adding another sound or something else happened (He plays Cymbals - movie is hihat, he plays stand-tom - movie there is only snare, good sample also the trombone: plays just something else....
I definitively think: they acted playback in the movie to a given music....fits more for pop, not jazz imo...

Bernhard

[theduke86]

You're right Bernhard, I must not have been paying much much attention. For me it's still cool to see all those guys.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

That makes perfect sense to me. It also reminds me of a few years ago when Garth Brooks, who at the time was at the top of the Country Music charts, declared that Rock Music was easy, and he recorded and released a rock album to prove how he could be a rock star as well. It sucked, the critics hated it, and no one bought it. He did his absolute best, and he was horrible. (Amazon lists 214 of the CDs new and used starting at 65 cents)

Just because you are the best at something (as many would say Buddy was), doesn't mean that you can be the best at anything else. Buddy did not have the ability to be a great rock drummer, or a great Latin drummer. That doesn't take away from what he was, but there's no need to pretend that he was more than he actually was.

Say he was a pioneer. That's a fact. Say he was the greatest drummer ever. Fine, that's an opinion. But it's just silly to say things like "His speed was equal or better than anyone today" or "He never made a mistake while drumming." No need to make him into more than he was. Any one of us should be so talented!

To say things like "His speed was equal or better than anyone today" makes perfect sense, actually. There may be (and there are) some faster drummers out there using the (in)famous finger technique, but not using the wrists and certainly not playing and reaching the sticks that high while surpassing the 1000+ bps. Certainly not. And I certainly need a video to prove me wrong.

- Ivo.

[DogBreath]

To say things like "His speed was equal or better than anyone today" makes perfect sense, actually. There may be (and there are) some faster drummers out there using the (in)famous finger technique, but not using the wrists and certainly not playing and reaching the sticks that high while surpassing the 1000+ bps.
So you even admit that there are faster drummers today, they just use different techniques? Buddy was a pioneer, but I repeat, it's silly to say that there is no one faster than him today. There are many, many faster drummers, but that in no way takes away from the greatness of Buddy Rich.

Many of the threads in this topic suffer from two types of posters: those who bash, and those who give greatly inflated praise. Keep it real. Show respect for the real man, not the fairy tale.

Fan-boys do their idols a disservice by praising them beyond their actual abilities. That's the whole point of the Chuck Norris jokes: they are only funny because they are ridiculous exaggerations of someone's abilities.

(and no, that wasn't an invitation for anyone to post their favorite Chuck Norris joke!)

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

So you even admit that there are faster drummers today, they just use different techniques? Buddy was a pioneer, but I repeat, it's silly to say that there is no one faster than him today. There are many, many faster drummers, but that in no way takes away from the greatness of Buddy Rich.

Many of the threads in this topic suffer from two types of posters: those who bash, and those who give greatly inflated praise. Keep it real. Show respect for the real man, not the fairy tale.

Fan-boys do their idols a disservice by praising them beyond their actual abilities. That's the whole point of the Chuck Norris jokes: they are only funny because they are ridiculous exaggerations of someone's abilities.

(and no, that wasn't an invitation for anyone to post their favorite Chuck Norris joke!)

This all regards (again) to "that" ol' controversal "cheating issue in the drumming community" kind of subject. I do think it's Buddy's own merit the high speed he's got in his lifetime and his extreme endurance using his effort-requiring wrists-techniques... you need to be certainly stronger to go through a 1-min-long or more solo at around 1.060 bps using only and just only your wrists power... the muscule, we all know how it can get tired and hurt, there's no comparision between finger muscules fatique and wrists' fatigue, and I truly think that's a merit of Mr. Buddy Rich; to his speed, strength and endurance. While others (like Mr. Mike Mangini and his "ground-breaking" "single hits" record of 1.260bps) insistently continue to use the finger technique. You cannot disconsider the extra amount of power required to sustain that Buddy Rich speed for so long time, so controlled and just hardly using the stick's rebounds and the power of his wrists; I do think the way to achieve something is something to be considered, not just the final result, from anyway, by anyone, anytime. But that's just my humble opinion anyway... a "blind fanatic" I am...maybe...

- Ivo.

[theduke86]

So you even admit that there are faster drummers today, they just use different techniques? Buddy was a pioneer, but I repeat, it's silly to say that there is no one faster than him today. There are many, many faster drummers, but that in no way takes away from the greatness of Buddy Rich.

Many of the threads in this topic suffer from two types of posters: those who bash, and those who give greatly inflated praise. Keep it real. Show respect for the real man, not the fairy tale.

Fan-boys do their idols a disservice by praising them beyond their actual abilities. That's the whole point of the Chuck Norris jokes: they are only funny because they are ridiculous exaggerations of someone's abilities.

(and no, that wasn't an invitation for anyone to post their favorite Chuck Norris joke!)
I hear what you're saying. There's some truth to this- I believe there may be some people who can play a faster 60 second single stroke roll who have trained it.... as far as all over virtuostic hand technique across musical (this is kind of a debateable term) boundaries, I think Buddy has it. Vinnie's got great hands, Louis Bellson does, Joe Morello, et al, I haven't heard anyone TOP Buddy. If we're measuring by WFD standards, then of course it's different.

[Class A Drummer]

WOW I JUST REALIZED! he used paiste cymbals.

[brittc89]

WOW I JUST REALIZED! he used paiste cymbals.
Whered you get that fact from? Buddy Rich used Zildjian cymbals, at least for a majority of his career.
http://keepitlive.tripod.com/buddyrich/pics12/Z_Buddy_Rich_zildjian_poster.jpg

[Class A Drummer]

Whered you get that fact from? Buddy Rich used Zildjian cymbals, at least for a majority of his career.
http://keepitlive.tripod.com/buddyrich/pics12/Z_Buddy_Rich_zildjian_poster.jpg
well i saw the buddy rich vid where he was in that pink sweater, and i saw under one of his cymbals (think the ride) the word "Paiste" so i figured he used pasite, then went to zildjian. Actually think that he went from zildjian to paiste, mainly because he looked very very old in that video and was probably a little before he died.

[agoo750]

Buddy is than man, no doubt...It's true alot of younger drummers don't care to hear him...To me he os one of the great pioneers of the instrument...I do think he really was a jerk though...Not showing others how to do the famous 1 handed roll? Seems a bit arrogant...I also think claiming he is the greatest drummer ever hands down is beyond arrogant...Like eveything else, drumming has evolved and gotten better with time and knowledge...


Haha, I heard that he had to pay people to play for them.

[infernal drummer]

no doubt the old guys like buddy rich, gene krupa and even brian bennet plays some exellent stuff.. just saw the drum solo from buddy rich.. not bad for a old timer

what i miss from these guys.. is more drums!!! the more drums the merrier i like the sound of 6 inch toms then a sudden roll down to the 13 - 16 .. and so on..

[~tamadrummer~]

no.no. no. no. no. buddy rich played jazz, not metal....

[infernal drummer]

im pretty sure that every drummer no matter what style or type of music they play could add more drums :D IF they feel like it

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

no doubt the old guys like buddy rich, gene krupa and even brian bennet plays some exellent stuff.. just saw the drum solo from buddy rich.. not bad for a old timer

what i miss from these guys.. is more drums!!! the more drums the merrier i like the sound of 6 inch toms then a sudden roll down to the 13 - 16 .. and so on..

I'll assume you're kidding on this one. "not bad for a old timer", heh, that's pretty hilarious. I'm sure you don't know but Hellhammer's (Mayhem's great drummer) favourite drummer is Buddy Rich. More so than Vinnie Colaiuta or Dave Weckl, according to his own self. And if you really like metal drummers, you might recognize the name "Ian Axel Bloomberg" as well. Very probably the BEST xtreme metal drummer of today. : )

If you really like lightning-fast drums, I really suggest you to check out there three videos of Buddy below:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichsticktrick.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1970.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1978.html

...and check them out carefully. They're worth it. I promise. Technique, phrasing, precision, speed, swing, control, clarity, dynamics, accents, creativity, innovations, style, dexterity, ambidextry, raw talent and a left hand and a sense of showmanship all put together like NO ONE ELSE. : ) Maybe a "little" unrealistic, but simply realistic, as much as it is difficult to believe.

Enjoy.

[Henry II]

no doubt the old guys like buddy rich, gene krupa and even brian bennet plays some exellent stuff.. just saw the drum solo from buddy rich.. not bad for a old timer

what i miss from these guys.. is more drums!!! the more drums the merrier i like the sound of 6 inch toms then a sudden roll down to the 13 - 16 .. and so on..

It kinda works like this . . . the older you get, the better Buddy Rich gets. By the time you're 20, Buddy Rich will be your hero.

[ewanlaing]

he really knew what the audience wanted. a jazz fanbase may appreciate rudiments, but they won't want to sit through buddy rich playing every rudiment to death. instead he kept it fast, lively and fun.

[infernal drummer]

yeah i have seen all the videos from him.. and yes i am kidding when i say "not bad for an old timer" :D .. i could never play as fast as him..
ppl can learn from all the old timers. listen to drum solo from brian bennet.. the litle b .. that is also some exellent stuff..

for metal (speedmetal) i like mickey dee (check out the helloween album "rabbit dont come easy" and ppl will know the word speed hehe) and uli kusch..

none the less.. ill still say the more drums.. the better the sounds ppl can make. if they know how to use them. i have no doubt that gene or buddy could have.. p.s. im not talking mike portnoy drumkit .. just a couple of 6" and 8" ..

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

yeah i have seen all the videos from him.. and yes i am kidding when i say "not bad for an old timer" :D .. i could never play as fast as him..
ppl can learn from all the old timers. listen to drum solo from brian bennet.. the litle b .. that is also some exellent stuff..

for metal (speedmetal) i like mickey dee (check out the helloween album "rabbit dont come easy" and ppl will know the word speed hehe) and uli kusch..

none the less.. ill still say the more drums.. the better the sounds ppl can make. if they know how to use them. i have no doubt that gene or buddy could have.. p.s. im not talking mike portnoy drumkit .. just a couple of 6" and 8" ..

Heh, yeah... I've always thought how amazingly great would be to have someone like Buddy behind a drumkit playing xtremely fast xtreme metal with xtremely fast blast beats with the only dexterity he had to go along throught ALL the song xtremely fast and fluidly... that would be a dream-coming-true. He (Buddy) would be an insane metal player, that's for sure! :p but OF COURSE, the best way for Buddy to explore his talents was in Jazz and in it's intrincate possibilities, certainly NOT in Metal.. he's from the 20's after all.... :p just wondering those hiper-fast-never-fatigued-hands doing what they know best doing (and doing it in a metal gig...) WOW... :]

[johnhavart]

I'am looking for the video in which Buddy originately did this. Is it on Drummerworld ? If so where ?

Thanks

[tomgrosset]

heres the link. he has several videos.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Buddy_Rich.html

[fourstringdrums]

heres the link. he has several videos.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Buddy_Rich.html

I think he means the video of when people first saw him do it.

[johnhavart]

Yes The first one in Drummerworld where buddy does it
Thanks
John

[mikejames]

Hi everybody,

I'm a lifelong drummer, (since 1964) and was hugely influenced by Buddy Rich, as many of us were. I've also traded links with Bernhard since around 2000, and am a big DrummerWorld fan.

I've been compiling previously unpublished concert clips of Buddy and his bands, contributed by drummer friends and me, and am hosting them (free to download, of course) on my site at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html (previously NextCraft™)

If you have unpublished audio clips, video clips, or photos that you would like to share with other drummers, please email me, and I will happily host them. This is a completely non-profit venture. I host the files for free, properly crediting the source they came from, and make no money of any kind from that. It's just sharing great music with others.

I encourage those of you who have these things "in your closet" to consider allowing the rest of us to hear and see them.

Enjoy!

[Just Drums]

D@mn. It really never gets old how amazing he really was. The single stroke roll near the end was one of the best parts.

[bigbeatbenny]

Great Site!


Thanks for this added collection of Buddy Rich Material. I know I speak for many people when I say that we can never get enough! I was wondering if there is any unpublished video clips of Buddy still out there and whether or not it could get on your site.

[Bernhard]

Yes Mike James - great

I know, I must also update your links....will do.....

Bernhard

[mikejames]

My pleasure to share this with all of you. I just hate to think of how much great music there is like this of Buddy and other artists, that we will never hear.

On Cathy's BR site forum, ( http://www.buddyrich.com ) I've offered to host video too, if anyone contributes some that won't get me in legal trouble. Of course, that invitation goes for all viewers here, too. I have plenty of space for hosting, and I do web design, so I can post whatever comes in almost immediately. Regardless, thank you for visiting!

And Bernhard,
You have created the best drum-related site on the planet! Keep up the tremendous work, and I appreciate the link update when you have time. Drummerworld is first class.

Take care, everybody.

[organochloride]

For me, Rich was the greatest drummer even, and bonzo too, i think if we could make a time machine and put them side by side in a drum battle, we have a very rare style drum battle, ver interesting and rare!!!!!

[brittc89]

For me, Rich was the greatest drummer even, and bonzo too, i think if we could make a time machine and put them side by side in a drum battle, we have a very rare style drum battle, ver interesting and rare!!!!!
I dont think so. Im pretty sure Buddy would just lay a smack down on old Bonzo.

[chris--byrne]

I highly doubt that Kathy Rich had backstage access, and I also highly doubt that Buddy Rich would've even wanted to go backstage to meet these "incompetant musicians" as he was probably mumbling to himself when he was at the show.

I think quite of other musicians thought Led Zepplin were incopetant. The name Led Zepplin even came from harsh comments, Kieth Moon said "They'll go over like a Lead Zepplin" he heard/was told about the band. I hve no doubt in my mind that Led Zepplin were definatly one of the best bands ever, mainly because of the way they could all play together and be so good inidvidually.

As to Buddy's comment, for him to even take notioce of Bonham and know who he was, that surely shows that Buddy has some respect for the man.

[funked_up]

If Buddy Rich and John Bonham had a drum battle, John Bonham would get his nuts handed to him.

[NUTHA JASON]

i think the arguement is a moot point. we will never know...and they were different styles.

btw, bonham and moon were friends and 'going down like a lead balloon is a compliment. when a gig goes down it means it is going well. git down ya'll. kieth could see the ingredients were all there for a super group....he knew they would be a sensation.

j

[k3ng]

Getting the Buddy Rich sound? For some strange reason I love the sound of his toms, even though they sound quite flat sometimes..

Anyone know what gets the buddy rich sound?

[The Caterer]

"Going down like a lead balloon" is most certainly NOT a compliment!

Having done many gigs that have gone that way I know!

[NUTHA JASON]

i beg to differ. the slang in the midlands of england circa 1970...going down meant it was going well...think of swallowing a pill or drinking a pint... it's going down. just like heavy and phat are compliments these days too.

according to all sources i've come across kieth admired bonzo and they were mates.

j

[The Caterer]

i beg to differ. the slang in the midlands of england circa 1970...going down meant it was going well...think of swallowing a pill or drinking a pint... it's going down. just like heavy and phat are compliments these days too.

according to all sources i've come across kieth admired bonzo and they were mates.

j

The Midlands of England is where I'm from, and "going down like a lead balloon" is one of the more polite ways of ariticulating that something has not gone well. However I utterly concur that it is a matter of record that Moonie and Bonzo had the highest regard for one another.

[cdrums21]

Buddy Rich was arguably known as the greatest drummer of all time...kind of like Xerox being the king of copiers, if you know what I mean...but what made Bonham extra cool was that NOBODY got a sound like him. I think Buddy may have copped the groove that Bonham did but he sure wouldn't have copped the sound. Could you hear Buddy playing "When the levee breaks' and it sounding as powerful as Bonzo? Probably not...Just my opinion...

[mikejames]

A few prerequisites...
Buddy used drums made differently than they're made today. (fewer, thicker plies, and usually maple) Also, the vintage drums I've played (like "Radio Kings") have slightly larger diameters, so there's less of that modern "ka-wang!" overly-resonant sound. He used white coated Remo "Diplomat" heads mostly. To my ears, almost any drum set sounds a lot better in a big concert hall. (where we typically heard Buddy) Buddy typically carried a piece of 1/2" plywood with the band, on which the drums were always set up. (no carpet) And of course, his awesome technique made the biggest difference in the sound. But anyway...

i've heard Buddy play drums tensioned in a variety of ways, and have even followed equipment trucks back to the music store, when a local store provided drums for certain concerts, and tapped on them myself, using a pitch pipe as a reference. I would say that this was a waste of time. Buddy was a "normal" drummer, in that he didn't spend hours sitting at the set with a drum key in his hand. If the drums sounded "good", or even "ok", Buddy could kick a band and thrill us with the sound. He may have been a little more finicky during recording dates, but I can't even guarantee that, since the drums vary (quite a bit, sometimes) from one album to another.

Buddy typically tensioned his drums a little tighter than most people would think. Using pitch as an example for the top head tension: snare: a to c - (bottom head about a 4th to a 6th higher, say E to F# - (Toms, both heads the same) 9X13: d - 16X16(1) g - 16X16(2) c - Bass drum: a to c

Important...
Buddy often did not touch the drums for long periods of time. So, especially using "Diplomat" heads, the top head pitch would naturally go down, over time. There are recordings of Buddy where the drums are obviously loose, but still tensioned to about the same (5th) intervals. The pitch is NOT important... In fact, I'd say that you really don't want the pitch to be heard, because it can interfere with the music. It's just a combination of high, medium, and low tones, brought to life by a drummer who really knew how to play emotionally.

[Henry II]

Ahhh Buddy Rich, the great drummer with a low life attitude towards people.. What a shmuck. I hope in his day someone actually stood up to him and put him in his place. Maybe even dotted his eye for him. I guarantee he would have remembered Bonham in a whole new light had he said that to his face.

I guarantee Buddy would kick Bonham's ass.

[Henry II]

As great as Bonham was, personally I don't think he is in the same league as Buddy...

That's exactly right! No one else was either.

[chris--byrne]

i beg to differ. the slang in the midlands of england circa 1970...going down meant it was going well...think of swallowing a pill or drinking a pint... it's going down. just like heavy and phat are compliments these days too.

according to all sources i've come across kieth admired bonzo and they were mates.

j

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palms/4403/bonham.html (bottom of the 3rd paragraph is where I read this)

"They'll go over like a Lead Zepplin" was what Moon actually said, not "go down like a lead zepplin"

The comment seemed to be negative, but I have heard people use the phrse "went down well" so I guess you could well be correct.

[intooder]

i think the arguement is a moot point. we will never know...and they were different styles.

btw, bonham and moon were friends and 'going down like a lead balloon is a compliment. when a gig goes down it means it is going well. git down ya'll. kieth could see the ingredients were all there for a super group....he knew they would be a sensation.

j
Thanks for clarifying that, Nutha. I was always under the impression that that statement (by moon) had a negative connotation, and that he never really regarded them as a band that would make it (until they actually made it, of course).

[Danny]

mikejames just about summed up everything.

[KR3]

I can see JB being a fan of BR but not the other way around. I love both drummers and I really don't think BR cared too much about JB's talent. Lots of JB grooves and style cam from Jazz. My flame suit is on...go ahead.

[NUTHA JASON]

no i agree. but then i don't think buddy thought much of anybody else for that matter.

he probably had only a grudging respect for his top contempories like shaughnessey and krupa.

j

[dothecrunge]

Thanks for clarifying that, Nutha. I was always under the impression that that statement (by moon) had a negative connotation, and that he never really regarded them as a band that would make it (until they actually made it, of course).

It is a negative connotation. Don't take it as truth just because Nutha said it. I've never heard/read anywhere where that comment was construed as positive.

When Keith heard who Page had hired as a band, he laughed and said they'll go down like a lead Zeppelin. How anyone thinks that's a positive statement is beyond me.

[bonham990]

In " A thunder of drums " the biography on John Bonham it was said that Bonham looked up to Buddy and idolized him. At one gig in New York i think they said, Bonham did a solo that was based on Buddy Rich with Big snare roll and all that. I personally think bonham would beat him in a solo battle because bonham has the speed in the hands, the feet he has the power and hes very original not saying Buddy Rich wasnt.

[dothecrunge]

In " A thunder of drums " the biography on John Bonham it was said that Bonham looked up to Buddy and idolized him. At one gig in New York i think they said, Bonham did a solo that was based on Buddy Rich with Big snare roll and all that. I personally think bonham would beat him in a solo battle because bonham has the speed in the hands, the feet he has the power and hes very original not saying Buddy Rich wasnt.

Carnegie Hall, 1969.

[Bonham to the moon]

well Keith Moon recorded with Page before bonham was even in the picture, so i would think that upon moon finding out that page started a band with bonham he would be maybe a little frustrated and i wouldnt think that with moon, competing for gigs against zep, would be too quick to compliment.

[djp132]

Got WAY too many responses and requests for this one to pass it up. It's a short video, bout 4 and a half minutes.

Feedback is appreciated.

www.derrickpope.net/buddyrichsticktrick.wmv

Thanks
Derrick

[Drummerboy3940]

great video man. i will try to learn that trick. its really cool

[samthebeat]

nice one derrick. I have allways wonderd how he did that. Good job

[foursticks]

Ah thank you so much! I've been puzzling over that one for months!

[Wegadrummer]

Thanks, always cool to see some showmanship.

[pete_on_drums]

thats really helpful, thx a lot.
how do you like the carbohsticks? did you use them because they are so loud when you hit them together, or just because you use them normally?
thx

[Chip]

Great video, I would have liked a backsticking one more though.
I see you have a 'technique master' title now. Well deserved.

[mitchel1]

Has anyone seen the post on the Official Buddy Rich site written by Cathy Rich? Someone was selling rare cds and dvds of Buddy Rich on Legends.com but i guess there was no agreement with the Rich family, so she told the guy to stop selling them. In a way i agree,but if your familiar with the slow way Cathy runs the site,and how slow she releases New /Old Buddy material. I mean if she just bought out alot of the footage from the people who have the tapes, she wouldnt be running into people trying to make money from her father. Does anyone agree?

[low-tech]

http://www.jazzprofessional.com/interviews/Buddy%20Rich_3.htm

heres a bunch of interviews with buddy rich

alot of people think hes arrogant, a jerk, egotistical and so on

the only thing i can say is his interviews are interesting because he says whats on his mind, id rather hear out a person who calls things as they see them than someone who is just paying lip service,giving the "right" answer as opposed to the "real" answer to questions, be it good or bad.

[Class A Drummer]

there is something we all have to except about buddy,

He is arrogant, and a jerk, but awsome at playing jazzzzzzz.

[Chip]

Ooooh, fiesty. Just kidding, I agree with you, he comes across as a jerk, but anyone would in his position (and do).

Think of all the people that get annoyed being around joey and travis lovers. Then put that into the context of yourself being one of the greatest musicians ever. How much more would it annoy you?

[mikejames]

Derrick,

You're killing me, man...

Your videos are, in my opinion, the best way for these things to be taught. There are certain individuals who like to portray these things as "deep, mysterious secrets", which can only be divulged after we purchase the "Secrets of ... (whatever)" videos for $50 each, because after all, learning how to play drums should be very serious, tedious, expensive and above all, mysterious. (Not!)

Thank you for your correct and very down to Earth approach to these things. I know they'll help a lot of drummers... especially younger players, and possibly help them keep a sense of humor and humility too.

Do more!

[intooder]

Derrick, you da man!! I especially got a kick out of the end with you spinning around and simulating a slo-mo. Thanks again and keep 'em coming.

[Class A Drummer]

He was arrogant - with good reason and he was NO jerk - he was surrounded by jerks.

But YOU are arrogant too - with no reason and not so awsome at playing jazz. Slow down a little bit.....please

Bernhard
Bernhard, i know people who have met buddy, they all called him a jerk. i also read an old old old interview, buddy seemed to be a jerk to me. btw, who has surrounded buddy that is a jerk?

*edit- also i never said i was awsome at playing jazz. Hell im not even remotly good. im just over the level of complete novice.

[Class A Drummer]

Derrick,

Great Job, that is an insanely awsome trick. What makes me angry (not really angry just kind of a "why didnt i think of that" kinda of feeling) is that after all your vids it hits me that every one of these is so simple. with just a little bit of think i cud do this.

once again, GREAT JOB.

[ewanlaing]

im pretty sure that every drummer no matter what style or type of music they play could add more drums :D IF they feel like it
spot on, as the new ed shaugnessy (sp) video proves. i really like how he incorporates jazz onto all those drums. i think a lot of the things buddy did needed a very close small set though. no doubt he would master a monster kit, but i think his style was at home behind a smaller kit, with fewer cymbals. it would be swell though, to see him play a big kit.

[mikejames]

Most of us like to get along with our friends, and with our fellow musicians. That's admirable, and the world certainly could use more tolerance and diversity.

But...
Many organizations, including bands, have allowed the quality of their product to suffer due to "not wanting to be rude", or "not wanting to offend anyone", or because "the trumpet player is a good friend", or whatever.

Buddy placed the quality of his product (both his personal playing, and his band's) first, and accepted nothing less than everyone's best effort. If their best effort wasn't good enough, in his opinion, then he would first try and get them some help, and if that didn't work, he would replace them. Most of us aren't that confrontational, and so we perceive these people as "jerks", or whatever other term you want to use.

But ask anyone who worked with Buddy successfully over a long period of time what kind of man he was, and they will praise him highly for his dedication to excellence. I am an audience member who sat in front of Buddy's bands on many occasions, thrilled with what I heard, and also became casual friends with several of his players. They reinforce these ideas. Buddy did this in the face of tough financial times, resistance from the music world in general, and health problems (back problems and heart trouble) that would have most of lying at home in bed.

Everyone in a successful and/or authoritative position will always be criticized as being a "tyrant". It's universal, and it's even what kids say about their own parents, when they're disciplined. See the many articles around the net by people like Steve Marcus, who worked with Buddy for over 10 years, and you'll find that these great musicians didn't think Buddy was a "jerk". They loved and respected him.

The music that Buddy and his bands left us is remarkable, and to my ears, the standard is so high that few have even come close since his passing. I respect and love the guy, as much as any fan can, and miss the spirit he provided greatly.

How many of us are strong enough to propel that kind of a band for that length of time? (even disregarding Buddy's personal talent) If such people existed today, we'd all be talking about them, instead of Buddy.

[mikejames]

New BR concert clips, from the 1984 Berlin Jazz Fest are posted on my page at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html These are NICE ones, sent to me by drummer friend, Dag Markhus.

Enjoy! (free, as always, of course)

[gretsch223]

Is Mike James Buddy's brother or something?

[fossilhead]

By most accounts I've read Buddy used Emperor heads with ambassadors for resonants, but, sources on the net are not always so reliable. From what I've seen on DVD's and the like Buddy's sound wasn't always the same anyway. Switching from Slings to Ludwig to Rogers and back and forth. Also changing bass drum sizes from 26 to 24 to 22 and back.

I think the main thing about BR's sound is the fact that nobody sounds like BR.

[mikejames]

I can guarantee you that the Emperor and Ambassodor thing is wrong.

I know about the Diplomats (MUCH thinner) from interviews with Buddy, spokesmen at Remo, and from physically seeing his drums on many occasions.

[BigSexyPanda]

i dont know if this was already talked about in the thread, but basically I was watching this video from Tiger Bill, he has this website he gives free lessons and stuff and in one of his videos he mentions how Buddy Rich wasn't fast. He never had the real speed, he was just really good at tricks, he would add in those extra accents with his bass drum or something to sound fast, but he actually wasn't. I don't know, but I was wondering if anyone else heard this before too? and wondering if Tiger Bill really does know his stuff, he really seems like he does to me, but it might just be me...

[mikejames]

ALL judgements about ANY art form, including music, are subjective. That is... If you like it, it's great. and if you don't, it's not. No amount of qualification can "prove" that one person is "better" than another. The audience can't be convinced that someone is better or worse than any other person, except by "what THEY like".

If "speed" is the only issue, then that's something that can be mechanically calibrated and measured. But... It has NOTHING to do with music or art, in my opinion. I consider the issue of "fastest" to be a very shallow barometer of musical integrity. (although it can certainly be exciting, at times)

Buddy Rich, along with the many incredible writers he utilized, and the musicians in his bands, gave this planet a HUGE number of tremendously exciting live and recorded performances, which you can buy and listen to, and make your own judgement.

In my opinion, Buddy, his writers, his recording methods, (mostly live) and his players,have produced some of the most timeless, hip, sensitive, technical, "firey", emotional, "funky", "swinging", dynamic, and historically important music ever performed by anyone. Opinions will vary.... That's mine. It's one thing to "play a thing". It's quite another to INVENT it. And... It's not "what" Buddy played, as much as "how" he played it.

If you would like to hear some live (and unpublished) recordings of Buddy and his bands (free) visit my page at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html

I feel very lucky to have experienced many of those beautiful performances. To this day, Buddy's performances strike a certain nerve with me that no one else approaches.

[mattsmith]

i dont know if this was already talked about in the thread, but basically I was watching this video from Tiger Bill, he has this website he gives free lessons and stuff and in one of his videos he mentions how Buddy Rich wasn't fast. He never had the real speed, he was just really good at tricks, he would add in those extra accents with his bass drum or something to sound fast, but he actually wasn't. I don't know, but I was wondering if anyone else heard this before too? and wondering if Tiger Bill really does know his stuff, he really seems like he does to me, but it might just be me...
First of all, Mike James' website is great and what he said about how Buddy Rich invented this whole direction wer'e talkin' about now is dead on. And in jazz, invention is always the bigger deal than perfecting the invention. This is important to understand 'cause there are some good guys on this forum who think that Buddy Rich is like some relic of the past, who like Gene Krupa created the idea of speed with musicianship, but could never compete with the mutant superheros who have come from that style in today's time like Vinnie C or Virgil Donati, or Weckl.

There was even a guy on the Donati site who said that Virgil would grind Rich into dust. My dad looked at that and said "Any idiot can write on the Internet." To me, Buddy Rich is definately more important because he was the real creator, and the only reason guys like that exist in the first place. And I say this without even thinking about the technique or the obvious greatness of guys like Vinnie C and to some extent Donati.

Now when it comes to this speed issue. I have read about Tiger Bill sayin' this and I know Art Verdi believes this too. And when it comes to raw speed like just goin full out with rudiments, they know what they are talkin' about 'cause they are 2 of the fastest drummers to ever walk the Earth. But those tricks they talk about Rich doing are to me part of the creation that made Rich the great innovative drummer he will always be.

About where you say Tiger Bill feels Rich really wasn't that fast, what I believe he is really sayin' is that in his opinion Rich is not the fastest to ever live, and that's a different thing altogether. Remember when you are talkin' about speed opinions that come from top 10 WFD guys, your talkin' about absolutes.

But I don't think speed is what made Rich the great player anyway. A long time ago I was told to listen to super early Rich to get the true meaning of how great he was. Like listen to the Artie Shaw band when he played with it in the late 1930s. Then listen to it the year before he joined. The Rich groove made that band a thousand times better and the players are all better 'cause he's there. it was really the first time anybody had ever heard real independence combined with a tight and crisp high-hat. In other words, the start of modern drumming.

On the flip side listen to that Tommy Dorsey guy's band when Rich left. It was never the same. And nobody played fast on that band. His speed was only a piece of the puzzle.

It's funny, Rich has never been my very favorite. I am more into Elvin Jones and Tony Williams. But I always feel like Rich needs to be defended because of some of the opinions that are out there, like how bein' a nasty guy applies to his playing, or how some guy doesn't like the sound of his snare on a West Side Story video. To me the bigger question is why people judge stuff based on these things.

[mikejames]

No.

But Buddy was awarded an honorary Doctorate for his accomplishments in music, from Berklee Colege of Music.

Righltfully so.

[Hummada]

Who ever said he was surrounded by jerks(at least by the people that called him jerk,arrogent,or what ever),I agree 100%! These people who call him a jerk behind his back should take a look in the mirror. There should be a certain level of respect because you can not say any thing to his face(or behind his back!) since he has passed on. Anywho...

I will agree with any one that thinks he is the best that ever set behing the drums. Every little gracefull note that Buddy played was purposely to be played as music. I will also agree with who ever said that if any of the top players today were to battle him,they would get smoked! And if you were to ask any of these top players of today if they would get smoked,almost all of them would agree to that.

[adrian]

you just said what i've been saying,His arrogence and ego got in his way.buddy rarely practiced (if at all) but if he had let it go (his arrogence)he would have made a fine rock drummer.It's not rocket science it's drums.And the analogy with the drunk driving is moot and makes no sense.It's not fair to judge anyone because they refuse to do something it's their choice ..leave it be.
Why rock? Dude, the best Jazz drummers can play rock better than the most well known rock drummers.

[toteman2]

Why rock? Dude, the best Jazz drummers can play rock better than the most well known rock drummers.

And where did you come up with that? Jazz and Rock are 2 very different things that require different feel. I don't understand where this mindset comes from. I guess it really depends on what type of "rock" drumming we're talking about.

[brittc89]

there is something we all have to except about buddy,

He is arrogant, and a jerk, but awsome at playing jazzzzzzz.
Ah ha ha ha ha ha! You make me laugh! I love how you call him arrogant and a jerk. You are the best, for real!

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

First of all, Mike James' website is great and what he said about how Buddy Rich invented this whole direction wer'e talkin' about now is dead on. And in jazz, invention is always the bigger deal than perfecting the invention. This is important to understand 'cause there are some good guys on this forum who think that Buddy Rich is like some relic of the past, who like Gene Krupa created the idea of speed with musicianship, but could never compete with the mutant superheros who have come from that style in today's time like Vinnie C or Virgil Donati, or Weckl.

There was even a guy on the Donati site who said that Virgil would grind Rich into dust. My dad looked at that and said "Any idiot can write on the Internet." To me, Buddy Rich is definately more important because he was the real creator, and the only reason guys like that exist in the first place. And I say this without even thinking about the technique or the obvious greatness of guys like Vinnie C and to some extent Donati.

Now when it comes to this speed issue. I have read about Tiger Bill sayin' this and I know Art Verdi believes this too. And when it comes to raw speed like just goin full out with rudiments, they know what they are talkin' about 'cause they are 2 of the fastest drummers to ever walk the Earth. But those tricks they talk about Rich doing are to me part of the creation that made Rich the great innovative drummer he will always be.

About where you say Tiger Bill feels Rich really wasn't that fast, what I believe he is really sayin' is that in his opinion Rich is not the fastest to ever live, and that's a different thing altogether. Remember when you are talkin' about speed opinions that come from top 10 WFD guys, your talkin' about absolutes.

But I don't think speed is what made Rich the great player anyway. A long time ago I was told to listen to super early Rich to get the true meaning of how great he was. Like listen to the Artie Shaw band when he played with it in the late 1930s. Then listen to it the year before he joined. The Rich groove made that band a thousand times better and the players are all better 'cause he's there. it was really the first time anybody had ever heard real independence combined with a tight and crisp high-hat. In other words, the start of modern drumming.

On the flip side listen to that Tommy Dorsey guy's band when Rich left. It was never the same. And nobody played fast on that band. His speed was only a piece of the puzzle.

It's funny, Rich has never been my very favorite. I am more into Elvin Jones and Tony Williams. But I always feel like Rich needs to be defended because of some of the opinions that are out there, like how bein' a nasty guy applies to his playing, or how some guy doesn't like the sound of his snare on a West Side Story video. To me the bigger question is why people judge stuff based on these things.

I think that (I'm saying that before my posts are deleted, for unknown/cryptic reasons...) you should also remember that Buddy Rich was the greatest drummer who ever lived for Mr. Verdi. He was "the Babe Ruth of the drums", as his own words named/crowned him. And his speed was also AMAZING. Even to this day of 2006. What this guy did in 1970 is still mindblowing today. 36 years after. He was definitely damn fast for his time, and damn fast for today's standard too. From what I can remember, BR already reached 'round 1.100 single strokes per minute back in the 70's. And that's SICK! Of course. I agree that his abilities were faaar, faaaar more present in his musicality, rhythm notions than on speed alone. What made BR's solos so amazing and unbelievable were the intelligent aplications he gave to them (to those tecniques and speed). The spontaneous beat-combinations and incredible, also spontaneous, musicality and genius-like showmanship were the responsible for the general awesomeness back then (and "the kids" are still amazed in 2006 too. Just check you.tube for some opinions on the subject...).

p.s. This added info is better suited for non BR fans than the otherwise. It was not really entirely directed at you. Sorry for anything...

All the best.

[neilpscuz]

Buddy Rich set a level for every drummer!!!when someone like Neil Peart does a cd like Burning for Buddy,we should all sit up and take notice.I ve heard a story that one time Buddy broke a spring on his bd pedal while soloing, and still managed to play 64th notes on it!!!his band (Buddy)played at my moms after prom party,(i am 42,you do the math)Buddy was hard on folks,but harder yet on himself!!started performing at age 2(traps the boy wonder)Buddy suffered no fools,and yet when being rushed to a hospital during a heart attack,a nurse asked him if he had any allergies, he replied"country music!"Steve Smith plays with Buddys buddies,(former members of Richs band),this should speak volumes,to anyone who thinks Buddy wasn't all that.he was all that and so very much more!!!!

[bonham990]

Buddy Rich set a level for every drummer!!!when someone like Neil Peart does a cd like Burning for Buddy,we should all sit up and take notice.I ve heard a story that one time Buddy broke a spring on his bd pedal while soloing, and still managed to play 64th notes on it!!!his band (Buddy)played at my moms after prom party,(i am 42,you do the math)Buddy was hard on folks,but harder yet on himself!!started performing at age 2(traps the boy wonder)Buddy suffered no fools,and yet when being rushed to a hospital during a heart attack,a nurse asked him if he had any allergies, he replied"country music!"Steve Smith plays with Buddys buddies,(former members of Richs band),this should speak volumes,to anyone who thinks Buddy wasn't all that.he was all that and so very much more!!!!

Ya he set a level alright! thats almost impossible to reach

[finnhiggins]

!!!

(...)

I ve heard a story that one time Buddy broke a spring on his bd pedal while soloing, and still managed to play 64th notes on it!!!

(...)

!

(...)

!!!!

I'm in the middle of playing 64th notes with my head on the desk right now.

Is it just me or is being impressed by a subdivision without an attached tempo kind of weird? I mean, I can play in 128th notes with just my left foot!(*)

(*) At 10bpm.

[mikejames]

Paraphrasing June Cleaver, from "Airplane!"...
Pardon me... I speak Jive...

He says that Buddy broke the pedal spring, and still played it "fast".

[BrynnerAgassi]

Buddy Rich, great drummer... for his time... He was the original, he was the "it" man and could entertain while drumming and etc. No one saw this before and thats why he has so much respect. AND he is a legend, BUT to say he had more speed than some of the players today.... NOOOOO WAYYY. look at Derrick Roody, i think i spelled that wrong, but anyways double bass speed... THAT guy is unreal.... Look at JoJo, look at Chambers.... Buddy Rich was the originator, but the story goes on, one man started it and now drummers are taking over what he did.
I am just waiting for another ten years to come around and see the quality of drummers in the future!

[Chip]

Buddy Rich was great. Really great. I have only heard mostly solo work, though, which sucks (not his solo's, because I haven't heard him with a band), I've heard maybe 20 seconds of him with a band. I do find his solos to be pretty repetitive now though.

When people say he is a jerk, and people respond "It was because he worked with young, incompetent musicians".......Does this make it right to yell at a 7-year-old because they can't play an E chord? Just another point of view.

[Yogman]

Over 30 years ago I was bought the Buddy Rich Snare Drum Rudiment Book.
Reading the thread I was wondering how many copies that book has sold, to aspiring students. It was a bible for me and I am sure for many others.
I luckily saw BR and his orchestra play a concert in Nottingham England in the 80's. He played West Side Story, and it just blew me away - something I'll never forget.

[jimmyq]

I agree man. Buddy truly is a legend and like you said, legends are being born today. Chambers is very impresively fast with his hands and is also a future legend. Gene Kruppa was pretty awesome too.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Buddy Rich, great drummer... for his time... He was the original, he was the "it" man and could entertain while drumming and etc. No one saw this before and thats why he has so much respect. AND he is a legend, BUT to say he had more speed than some of the players today.... NOOOOO WAYYY. look at Derrick Roody, i think i spelled that wrong, but anyways double bass speed... THAT guy is unreal.... Look at JoJo, look at Chambers.... Buddy Rich was the originator, but the story goes on, one man started it and now drummers are taking over what he did.
I am just waiting for another ten years to come around and see the quality of drummers in the future!

Wrong. Plain wrong assertment. Derrick Roddy faster than Buddy Rich? "Yeah", "you're right". He does use a double bass. But that's it. no chances hands-wise. Sorry! : /

As a whole, as a "magic", his (Buddy's) performances are still the most memorable ones for the ones who've had the oportunity to witness him. The bad ass thing about Buddy is that nature is only that gift-giving once in a century. There's always one, and only-one guy who happens to have gained, all at once, speed, dexterity, immense spontaneous creativity, showmanship, exceptional rthythm senses and an interesting/charismatic personality all into just one "ordinary" guy from NY city. And when you do the maths and watch (and listen to...) all Buddy's videos available through the net and have a real good sense of justice, there's no way you can deny it all.

[ewanlaing]

i think you're both right to some extent. there are definately players out there today, who could play buddy's solos just as well as he did, though not many.
but of course, it seems like no-one could in the day, and he started a lot of trends and made some great contributions to drumming and music as a whole.
i think the reason we love him so much is that there never was anyone quite like him before, and no-one has ever left a mark like his since.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

i think you're both right to some extent. there are definately players out there today, who could play buddy's solos just as well as he did, though not many.
but of course, it seems like no-one could in the day, and he started a lot of trends and made some great contributions to drumming and music as a whole.
i think the reason we love him so much is that there never was anyone quite like him before, and no-one has ever left a mark like his since.

Yes, maybe. But still there's a huge, and i mean, HUGE difference between trying for days to copy what he did and CREATE what he did the way he usually created so much amazing solos like he usually played out of nowhere. Completely spontaneously. Oh God, how there is! (a difference). And that's exactly where/when Mr. Buddy Rich becomes the best drummer this face of the world has ever known. :)

What i'm trying to say is that, before everything, he had an absolutely brilliant percussive mind. His best qualities are the way he brilliantly thinked, fast as hell (and hell.. how well!...) those spontaneous solos and had the nature-given gift of having the physical possibilies of performing them. Performing whatever would come from his absolutely insane kind of mind (and i, definitely, dig this rapid genius mind i lot. I like it a lot, and try to perform things like those for other purposes in my life).

[fullmoon]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X_giGBLeEiA&search=buddy%20rich

sorry if this has been posted here before

[DogBreath]

No need to link to YouTube when we already have the movie here (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12502).

[tomgrosset]

Buddy Rich was one of my first influences back when I was 12 years old.
Here's some footage of him with Artie Shaw.
Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luH5DsVsK5U

[mikejames]

This one, coming out in September, should be a huge hit with BR fans. Buddy is obviously "in the zone" on this one... Can't wait to hear and see it! (The drum solo from "Channel One Suite" is already posted here on Drummerworld, but to see the entire performance will be exciting.)

http://jazzicons.com/#buddy

[Jusstickinaround]

I actually have that dvd with the whole Martin and Lewis tv show, bought it at Wal-mart for $5. An interesting thing happens during the solo, right after his flurry on the cymbals his beater comes off his pedal and he does the rest of the solo without a kick. You can slow it down on the dvd and see it clearly come off, he was and is the greatest drummer that ever held a pair of sticks.

[mikejames]

Hi everybody,

The page I've created at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html continues to grow...

I've just gotten some materials out of storage, which enabled me to post 3 new concerts of Buddy and his band, which I know you'll enjoy.

The best one is a complete two-set concert from Columbus, Ohio, in mid 1973. It's a good quality recording made from the sound board, on a 4-channel reel-to-reel, and has some real "moments" on it, including an especially-funky version of "Paul's Tune", which first appeared on the "Different Drummer" album. (recorded by the sound man)

There's a nightclub performance from February 20th, 1974, which shows how a pro band deals with odd circumstances. There's no bass player! Check it out... filled with awesome playing by Lin Biviano, Pat LaBarbara, and the rest of Buddy's great players at the time. (recorded by me)

The third one i've added is a horrible recording, but fans would probably rather hear it than not. The band plays great... It's the technical end of the recording that's bad. It's from an appearance at the "Executive Inn", in Evansville, Indiana, from 1984. (recorded by the sound man there, at the time)

As always, these are completely free for you to download. I know you'll enjoy them.

Have fun, and happy gigging!
- Mike James

[mikejames]

I'm (obviously, I suppose) a huge fan of Buddy's music. Buddy's playing,along with his "the show must go on" attitude, will be discussed forever, which is the proof of what he was. Of course, our appreciation of music is subjective, so you may disregard guys like me as being biased. But here are some undeniable facts...

What (besides double-bass drumming) are the most popular tech subjects discussed here on Drummerworld? ...the Moeller and Gladstone techniques that Buddy and others had mastered. Derrick Pope's "stick trick" and "one-handed roll", as performed by Buddy, are still hot subjects. It's ironic that Buddy was the "textbook example" of the best way to play most techniques, but that he did it NATURALLY, with very little formal study.

Buddy once did a performance at Jazz at the Philharmonic, where he came out front and played a solo on ONLY two bass drums, flooring the audience. (Buddy didn't normally use two bass drums... He just sat down and did it, amazing everyone... Then he never did it again.)

And...
Buddy's influence was a major force in the drum industry itself. Who was responsible for the first (reinforced) "dot" heads? Buddy Rich asked Remo Belli about making his bass drum head last a little longer, and they were invented. Who motivated the design of the (Rogers) "Dynasonic" snare drum? Buddy Rich asked Rogers to design a snare drum that could respond at all volume levels with clarity, and without "choking", and after they did, he proved it's attributes during his playing with Harry James and later, with his own band.

Buddy was the first drummer to play drums "upside down", when he did a gag performance on the pilot for the "I've got a secret" TV show, which then led to many rock drummers doing it in their live shows.

Buddy drove Slingerland hard when he was en endorser in the late 1960s and 1970s, proving his seriousness by playing other drums, when Slingerland made drums he wasn't happy with. Simply naming a drum as a "Buddy Rich model" wasn't enough to buy Buddy's loyalty. On the other hand, when they, in his own words, "finally made him a snare drum that was playable", he was happy to play it and speak about it. He used very simple drums and hardware, showing drum companies (and drummers) that "complex" and "heavy-duty" didn't necessarily mean "better". His thoughts on cymbals influenced Zildjian. He didn't talk a great deal about these things, but simply led by example. When Slingerland let him down, in the mid 1970s, he switched to Ludwig, and stayed with them for years.

In his final years, when he could've played anything he wanted, he returned to Slingerland "Radio King" drums, made in the late 1930s. That wasn't because he was "nostalgic"... It was because he loved the sound of the drums. After his death, drummers and manufacturers alike began to wise up, and you're now seeing "Vintage" drums in their own (high-priced) market, as well as modern manufacturers trying to emulate them. Just recently, DW has introduced a vintage series, and who was the "showroom" kit modeled after? Buddy Rich. Buddy's sidemen included generations of players and writers who then went on to become the jazz masters of our time.

We all benefit from Buddy's influence, (and, in all fairness, other great drummers too) whether we realize it or not. He certainly did a lot more than just "play fast".

For those of you who would like to hear some great live concert clips of Buddy and his bands, I'm hosting a page of previously-unheard and unpublished clips on my site, at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html (free to download for personal listening, with no "catch") Enjoy!

[mlaugh]

I once listend to Buddy play on the Johnny Carson show. I was in shock at how this guy could play. I have never seen anything like it .................man what a drummer!!! He is the best in his controll and chops and speed......I only wish I could of met him.

[Thomas]

Yes Buddy was A absolutley Fantastic drummer, Yes he was extremley influential...but i think popularity shaddows the efforts of other true greats such as Krupa and Tony Williams.

[michael drums]

Yes Buddy was A absolutley Fantastic drummer, Yes he was extremley influential...but i think popularity shaddows the efforts of other true greats such as Krupa and Tony Williams.

Hey Thomas. Good point. But did you know what Gene Krupa said about Buddy Rich? He said that "Buddy Rich is the Greatest Drummer to have ever drawn breath!" Quite a compliment from one of the true greats, huh? Cya! Peace!

[michael drums]

I'm not buying that.

He's an astounding player and his chops are phenomenal. But musical vocabulary? He's not a patch on Vinnie Colaiuta in that respect, to name but one. He never had much in the way of rock chops, indeed he expressed great loathing for the style on many occasions. I've never seen footage of him playing any convincing latin material either. And likewise I don't recall seeing any of Elvin or Tony's innovations making their way into his jazz time playing.

He was an enormous big band drummer, there's few who could touch him on that ground. And his soloing chops were jaw dropping too. But if you're going to put him forward as the kind of stylistic versility and musical vocabulary then we're going to have to disagree. His range was really rather limited compared to many drummers today, he just had astounding control inside that range.

Huh? There would be no Vinnie Colaiuta if there was no Buddy Rich. Come to think of it,
the list here would be infinite, of drummers that would not be, had it not been for Buddy
Rich. My guess is you haven't seen many videos/clips of him. There was NO style of drums he couldn't play. Have you ever seen what his left hand did while he played? You're kidding, right? Few who could touch him? What few? Can I make a suggestion? There are a number or really good videos of him available. You should pick one up and take a look at it. Fact is, he was the greatest drummer to have ever drawn breath. Not my quote. Gene Krupas'.
Play on!

[michael drums]

I'm (obviously, I suppose) a huge fan of Buddy's music. Buddy's playing,along with his "the show must go on" attitude, will be discussed forever, which is the proof of what he was. Of course, our appreciation of music is subjective, so you may disregard guys like me as being biased. But here are some undeniable facts...

What (besides double-bass drumming) are the most popular tech subjects discussed here on Drummerworld? ...the Moeller and Gladstone techniques that Buddy and others had mastered. Derrick Pope's "stick trick" and "one-handed roll", as performed by Buddy, are still hot subjects. It's ironic that Buddy was the "textbook example" of the best way to play most techniques, but that he did it NATURALLY, with very little formal study.

Buddy once did a performance at Jazz at the Philharmonic, where he came out front and played a solo on ONLY two bass drums, flooring the audience. (Buddy didn't normally use two bass drums... He just sat down and did it, amazing everyone... Then he never did it again.)

And...
Buddy's influence was a major force in the drum industry itself. Who was responsible for the first (reinforced) "dot" heads? Buddy Rich asked Remo Belli about making his bass drum head last a little longer, and they were invented. Who motivated the design of the (Rogers) "Dynasonic" snare drum? Buddy Rich asked Rogers to design a snare drum that could respond at all volume levels with clarity, and without "choking", and after they did, he proved it's attributes during his playing with Harry James and later, with his own band.

Buddy was the first drummer to play drums "upside down", when he did a gag performance on the pilot for the "I've got a secret" TV show, which then led to many rock drummers doing it in their live shows.

Buddy drove Slingerland hard when he was en endorser in the late 1960s and 1970s, proving his seriousness by playing other drums, when Slingerland made drums he wasn't happy with. Simply naming a drum as a "Buddy Rich model" wasn't enough to buy Buddy's loyalty. On the other hand, when they, in his own words, "finally made him a snare drum that was playable", he was happy to play it and speak about it. He used very simple drums and hardware, showing drum companies (and drummers) that "complex" and "heavy-duty" didn't necessarily mean "better". His thoughts on cymbals influenced Zildjian. He didn't talk a great deal about these things, but simply led by example. When Slingerland let him down, in the mid 1970s, he switched to Ludwig, and stayed with them for years.

In his final years, when he could've played anything he wanted, he returned to Slingerland "Radio King" drums, made in the late 1930s. That wasn't because he was "nostalgic"... It was because he loved the sound of the drums. After his death, drummers and manufacturers alike began to wise up, and you're now seeing "Vintage" drums in their own (high-priced) market, as well as modern manufacturers trying to emulate them. Just recently, DW has introduced a vintage series, and who was the "showroom" kit modeled after? Buddy Rich. Buddy's sidemen included generations of players and writers who then went on to become the jazz masters of our time.

We all benefit from Buddy's influence, (and, in all fairness, other great drummers too) whether we realize it or not. He certainly did a lot more than just "play fast".

For those of you who would like to hear some great live concert clips of Buddy and his bands, I'm hosting a page of previously-unheard and unpublished clips on my site, at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html (free to download for personal listening, with no "catch") Enjoy!

Ahh...Written by a true professional. Absolutely true on all points. You must have read my mind, Mike! Well Done! Write On & Play On!

[michael drums]

I actually have that dvd with the whole Martin and Lewis tv show, bought it at Wal-mart for $5. An interesting thing happens during the solo, right after his flurry on the cymbals his beater comes off his pedal and he does the rest of the solo without a kick. You can slow it down on the dvd and see it clearly come off, he was and is the greatest drummer that ever held a pair of sticks.

Just wanted to repeat that last statement: He was and is the greatest drummer that ever held a pair of sticks. The truth always bears repeating! Play On!

[Synthetik]

Buddy had a natural talent that was extraordinary in no uncertain terms. I can't imagine that there is any beat, any independant technical thing that he could not do if he wished. He was a drummer of just that magnitude.

It seems far beyond any individual on this forum to put Buddy into a paradigm, and declare what Buddy could and could not do. I find that logic rediculous. It's interpolation and opinion only.

EDIT: Broad stratification of Buddy isn't a good idea either. I agree with the following comments. The words "best" or "can't" probably should not be used.

[mattsmith]

Look Michel, I'm as big a Buddy Rich fan as there is. I don't just watch the same 5 videos again and again. I listen a lot, and I've studied his whole career, not just the West Side Story/appearences on Tonight Show part. My dad and grandfather even did some ocassional playing with him. For the record I think he is probably the greatest drummer of all time, and certainly the greatest technician...I don't care what the Vinnie/Virgil fanatics think.

I even scoff at that crowd who say there is no such thing as a best drummer, and that you can't measure stuff like that, because that's just plain BS. Best is always qualifiable, and those who say it isn't, just want to keep the lines blurred so they can feel better about never having any personal goals in their musical lives.

But I've gotta comment on this latest Buddy fan base, because I think you guys are startin' to get out of control. Look at this man. Four posts in a row, and what have you really said?

You start off by repeating the Krupa quote that's been said a thousand times, and then you can't believe that people who favor others can possibly exist, implying that finnhiggins has probably never seen a Rich video, when that's one of the main topics discussed on this forum. Then you spend the next 2 posts doing no more than reinforcing the parroting of ardent disciples.

Geez, I never thought I would say this, but you guys are getting more and more like Travis Barker fanboys every day. I think your throat cramming tactics like these last 4 spams, only qualify my point and dishonor the legacy of Buddy Rich. And you know something? It's really starting to bug me.

Let me tell you something about finnhiggins. He and I have butted heads over a lot of issues, and I thought that He's not a patch on Vinnie Colaiuta comment was pretty out there too. But instead of checking out finn's views, or even looking at the discussions on this thread, you essentially assumed he was uneducated about Rich in any way, which is not even close to be being true.

In fact one of the reasons finn's Rich comments irk me as they do, is because he does know what he is talking about. You coming in here and lecturing us...a person who has yet to offer a intellectual qualified comment, doesn't really help the cause at all.

I also most strongly resent the newest Rich fanboy tactic, which is to use the Buddy Rich website forum to artificially distort what is believed to be Rich naivete on Drummerworld. I invite you to visit the Rich forum now, because his Drummerworld rant thread is still there, along with my rebuttal.

I even went to the Rich forum to explain that I thought there was a 4 year period in Rich's career where he was the best who ever lived without doubt. The reaction of the Rich fan base was to express disbelief that I would only give Rich 4 years of unquestioned immortality, in light of the fact that those 4 years were also the peak years of Elvin Jones and Tony Williams. And this came only weeks after I defended Rich about his speed...a most hallowed issue Rich issue indeed, and one I was qualified to discuss.

Here's the issue at hand.

The Rich fan base need to do some soul searching, because the way you are getting your message out lacks... to say the least. And I have to think that Cathy Rich is not going to like it, if the original accurate viewpoint about her father becomes controlled by instransigent fanatics, who will do anything to sell their point.

There are already some drummer fan bases that suffer this affliction. I would not want this to occur to the legacy of the greatest drummer of us all.

Come on, let his music speak for itself. It already does for me. History will prove your point if you allow things to run their proper course.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

About Buddy being the best drum technician to ever live... that's probably true. The fact that his solos did not follow a certain and restrict time did not matter at all. His solos worked as a free and spontaneous exercise of genius creativity. Which other drummer could simply seat and play like that? Out of nowhere and withouth much thinking or "special preparation"? Not many, that's for certain.

When i watch/listen to some of Buddy's solos on the hi-hat, for example, i can clearly sense his geniality in every step of the composition of such solo. The snare dynamics have an order, beginning, "mid", end, the accents are very accurate and are followed by immediately subsequent equally interesting rudiments played with class and "magic". I never get tired of watching as many of his videos as possible; always, just when gets dark and total boreness arrive. That's what art is all about; that's what truly God-given talent (and genius) is all about: to make us lighter and brighter individuals; to inspire us and make us better (even for just 1 sec) individuals and learn from this apreciation moment.

What can you say about a guy that did around 1.100 beats per minute in the 60's using traditional grip!??? That's what's been reached TODAY! In 2006. Amazing. Incredible, you (realistically) name it. I name it Buddy Rich. The greatest musical phenomenon in the percussion area EVER. Period (at least to me).

ps. For some strange and subject reason, some of my posts are still getting gently cleaned from this website... and not one ofense or bad name was taken.... hmmm.

[mattsmith]

About Buddy being the best drum technician to ever live... that's probably true. The fact that his solos did not follow a certain and restrict time did not matter at all. His solos worked as a free and spontaneous exercise of genius creativity. Which other drummer could simply seat and play like that? Out of nowhere and withouth much thinking or "special preparation"? Not many, that's for certain.

When i watch/listen to some of Buddy's solos on the hi-hat, for example, i can clearly sense his geniality in every step of the composition of such solo. The snare dynamics have an order, beginning, "mid", end, the accents are very accurate and are followed by immediately subsequent equally interesting rudiments played with class and "magic".

This kind of post convinces a whole lot better than the blind scripture I just discussed.

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

This kind of post convinces a whole lot better than the blind scripture I just discussed.

Thanks, Matt.

ps. You have a short but impressive musical history (was just checking your website...). Keep up the great job!

pss. I know you from the "old times" (Buddy Rich's official forum and stuff). Keep it FAST! Heh. Take care.

[thombo]

This one, coming out in September, should be a huge hit with BR fans. Buddy is obviously "in the zone" on this one... Can't wait to hear and see it! (The drum solo from "Channel One Suite" is already posted here on Drummerworld, but to see the entire performance will be exciting.)

http://jazzicons.com/#buddy


HI Mike, I checked your your Buddy Rich page ( on your web site) , I really just scanned it quickly but NICE! Stories about how you drove.......whatever and what not , just to see Buddy....anyway I was wondering...but first a thought just came to mind......until you've see Buddy live, you just might think you've found a drummer better than him.

I made this mistake once. During the Jazz Rock era with Return to Forever wowing the
Jazz world and Billy Cobham having just come out with Magic, I thought that Buddy has met his match in Billy> But then Buddy came to town (San Francisco) , so I went to see the old guy for "ol time sake" not knowing what he had in store. It was at the Great American Music Hall, and he had a Jazz Rock quartet, no horns no Big Band, just a bass,
a piano a guitar and him. 4 Dudes and I wondered "what is this gonna be?" Here's what it was. The most impressive display of Jazz Rock drumming I'd ever seen. Billy in my mind suddenly became a ghost note shy of Buddy (which is still great) but he had to be placed somewhere. Ironically later on the Tonight Show, in a interview with Buddy, when asked if there were any other great drummers out there (besides you: as Johnny would always stroke him) he did say yes, "that would be a young man named Billy Cobham".

So getting back to what I wanted to ask you.....are there or do you know of any recordings
of Buddy's Jazz Rock. I've never really looked, but I'm wondering now?

Later
Thombo

[mattsmith]

I don't want to step into Mike's eventual more qualified answer, but I wanted to weigh in on this one.

There are a number of fine examples of Rich playing in rock/fusion and crossover genres. Of course most people point immediately to his Pacific Jazz outing Buddy and Soul, where the switch was most apparent. But in my estimation he gets a lot better at this style a little later, although the Wonderbag track is quite good.

To me, Speak No Evil RCA from the mid 1970s, was a really fine example of Rich playing in this style. But it was destroyed by jazz critics and his main fan group, who thought Rich had sold out. A lot of the arrangements themselves weren't that great either, with slicked up silly background vocals. So you don't hear much about it now. But if some of the Rich can't play rock guys would listen to it, they would have a much better impression of his drumming in that style. The horn playing on Speak No Evil ... especially saxophonist Steve Marcus, and the trumpet work of Blood Sweat and Tears' Lew Soloff, is top notch.

You also hear fine rock based Rich examples on Roar of 74, and latter efforts where saxophonist Bob Mintzer is present. But again in most cases, the quality of the rock based arrangements themselves is so horrible, that the playing is also dismissed in hand..and except for Speak No Evil, Rich never recorded a project where he played all rock. So if there were some jazz tracks on the album, young guys would say Not a real rock record, and dismiss it. So he was gettin' it from both sides.

My feeling about his rock playing is: Much, much better than his detractors claim. In facts it's really good... but not the greatest rock drumming in history as the fanatics would say either.

[bromasi]

http://jazzicons.com/#buddy
I just purchased this DVD and it's great, I was lucky to see this group Buddy's Killer Band,and on this DVD Buddy seems so relaxed just kicking the band like no one could,I recommed this one to any one who loves big band drumming or just great drumming.

[mlehnertz]

Fact WAS, not IS, and even that is subjective... Gene Krupa died in 1973. Could Gene's OPINION have changed if he had remained alive another 33 years and heard Colaiuta or Weckl or any of the other "modern greats"? I think so.

In 1973 who was "the greatest golfer to ever drawn breath"? Jack Nicklaus? Arnold Palmer? How about in 2006? That Tiger Woods guy is pretty good. Face it, there are greats but there will never be "the greatest".

Fact is, he was the greatest drummer to have ever drawn breath. Not my quote. Gene Krupas'.
Play on!

[onemat]

Fact WAS, not IS, and even that is subjective... Gene Krupa died in 1973. Could Gene's OPINION have changed if he had remained alive another 33 years and heard Colaiuta or Weckl or any of the other "modern greats"? I think so.

In 1973 who was "the greatest golfer to ever drawn breath"? Jack Nicklaus? Arnold Palmer? How about in 2006? That Tiger Woods guy is pretty good. Face it, there are greats but there will never be "the greatest".

Have a sense of humor when you read this. All opinions being subjective. Buddy had a long history of learning new styles of drumming. In 1968 he began to play big band arrangements of rock, soul and other popular music. He could play the latest styles of drumming and usually embellish them with killer fills with no effort. His versions of Mercy Mercy and Ode To Billie Joe come to mind. So based on his history and the type of drummer he was, if Buddy was alive today, I believe he could achieve anything Colaiuta or Weckl could come up with and probably go one better, just my opinion.
As for Golf, the greatest Golfer (and pool player) was W.C.
Fields. Nobody cheated like he could and there hasn't been anyone funnier to watch cheating his way through a game. :)
Matt

[michael drums]

Have a sense of humor when you read this. All opinions being subjective. Buddy had a long history of learning new styles of drumming. In 1968 he began to play big band arrangements of rock, soul and other popular music. He could play the latest styles of drumming and usually embellish them with killer fills with no effort. His versions of Mercy Mercy and Ode To Billie Joe come to mind. So based on his history and the type of drummer he was, if Buddy was alive today, I believe he could achieve anything Colaiuta or Weckl could come up with and probably go one better, just my opinion.
As for Golf, the greatest Golfer (and pool player) was W.C.
Fields. Nobody cheated like he could and there hasn't been anyone funnier to watch cheating his way through a game. :)
Matt

Absolutely 100% right on target with that answer, onemat. No doubt about Buddys' abilities. Yes, he could have and would have been able to "go one better". He was doin' that his whole life. It may be just opinion, but the proof is in the pudding. Look what he achieved. Playing for 70+ years at "his" level. NO ONE, to this day, has his resume'. Period. Thanks onemat! Play On!

Oh, and about the sense of humor...Well Said! Great examples, too...

[michael drums]

Fact WAS, not IS, and even that is subjective... Gene Krupa died in 1973. Could Gene's OPINION have changed if he had remained alive another 33 years and heard Colaiuta or Weckl or any of the other "modern greats"? I think so.

In 1973 who was "the greatest golfer to ever drawn breath"? Jack Nicklaus? Arnold Palmer? How about in 2006? That Tiger Woods guy is pretty good. Face it, there are greats but there will never be "the greatest".


In your opinion, of course...

[toteman2]

Would it be possible for someone to share or direct me to some of Buddy's work outside of the Big Band Swing genre? Is there any recorded material?

[mikejames]

Often, Buddy performed tunes with just the trio portion of his band, featuring his favorite players. And... Often Buddy would feature one or more soloists in long stretches, with the rest of the band either just sitting, or playing percussion "toys". So even with his big bands, all the tunes were not "big band". But, to answer your question...

Buddy's early career included many small groups. "Blues Caravan", for example, is a remarkable album. You can find these by simply typing "Buddy Rich recording" into "Google". Later, Buddy recorded other small group albums, including a period in the 1970's when he briefly abandonded the big band and played in New York with a sextet at the club bearing his name, "Buddy's Place". The first of those albums was "Very Live at Buddy's Place". (available at Barnes & Noble, for example, at http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?z=y&EAN=046172410421

Buddy also recorded some European performances with musician friends, including Lionel Hampton. (Check Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc..)

[toteman2]

Thanks for responding Mike.

[michael drums]

Often, Buddy performed tunes with just the trio portion of his band, featuring his favorite players. And... Often Buddy would feature one or more soloists in long stretches, with the rest of the band either just sitting, or playing percussion "toys". So even with his big bands, all the tunes were not "big band". But, to answer your question...

Buddy's early career included many small groups. "Blues Caravan", for example, is a remarkable album. You can find these by simply typing "Buddy Rich recording" into "Google". Later, Buddy recorded other small group albums, including a period in the 1970's when he briefly abandonded the big band and played in New York with a sextet at the club bearing his name, "Buddy's Place". The first of those albums was "Very Live at Buddy's Place". (available at Barnes & Noble, for example, at http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?z=y&EAN=046172410421

Buddy also recorded some European performances with musician friends, including Lionel Hampton. (Check Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc..)

Thank You Mike, for ALL the information about Buddy. You're right on with what you say and the facts that you share. I've researched a TON of Buddy Rich facts and have seen most, if not all, of his videos. And have heard more of his recordings. There was, and still is, somethin' VERY special and unique about him. He was, and still is, "The Grand Master". Thanks so much! Play On!

[onemat]

Thanks too Mike. I was trying to think of stuff that wasn't big band.
Matt

[mikejames]

My pleasure, guys...

In the aviation business, people say that "every generation rediscovers the P-51". In music, and related to drumming in particular. I'd say that every generation will "discover Buddy Rich".

He was certainly one of a kind, regardless of what you think of him. To me, he is the man whose music I most appreciate, when it comes to swing of any kind, and certainly in terms of longevity, and influence in this "business". I will miss him until the day I die.

[mlehnertz]

A beautiful plane. It ruled the skies.

Fast forward to the year 2006. You're in a dogfight. Would you rather be in a P-51 or an F-15? Hmmmm...

My pleasure, guys...

In the aviation business, people say that "every generation rediscovers the P-51". In music, and related to drumming in particular. I'd say that every generation will "discover Buddy Rich".

[Jon Cable]

There are some great videos on youtube.com of Buddy, posted by Ludwig222. They include Buddys last tv interview with Parkinson on British tv from just before He died. Check 'em out??

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Some nice/important points to look for (as I understand them) when watching to a Buddy Rich drum solo:

1. Observe the way (as much as how easy) he crosses his arms and execute all kinds of hand and arm movements so smoothly (sometimes they seem supernatural...);

2. Try to apreciate-and-understand Buddy's phrasings (sequences of drum notes and moves); dynamics over the snare drum and his calculated accents;

3. The more complex and admirable things are, sometimes, hidden from the more obvious/explicit observations (again, try to understand his moves, sometimes you just don't take notice, but impossible things are happening right before your eyes, you simply isn't paying the deserved attention);

4. There's always a brilliant sense of time through the solo (even when it seems all-messy, there's always a jazzistic broken time going on);

5. Observe his left-hand movements and try to understand the incredible dynamics of his left-hand alone (quite amazing);

6. Try to understand his constructions and how Buddy used to mix swing, technique, speed and hand/arms movements' control (or coordination), musicality and everything else in favor of a GREAT and memorable drum solo;

7. Pay attention to the pauses that Buddy would usually give to separate his phrasings into "sections" of chosen notes. Possibly the BEST use of silence ever on a drum solo;

8. Understand how his breathing techniques help him to achieve such an accurate hand movement control;

9. Try to see and hear the solos as a composition in the sense that every beat is featured as a violin note would in a real-world musical situation;

10. Try to vislumbrate (as Buddy said himself) his solos as "well told stories": there's a fine and interesting beginning, an exciting mid, and a phenomenal end, when everything reaches "it's top"). Also, in most of his solos, there's a so long sequence of exciting creative moments that not even one second is dispersed by a boring moment. Incredible. Very consistent phrasing quality through the whole solos.

In other words: try to THINK like Buddy in that particular "drummoment".

Just some advices in order to better understand why Buddy was so one-of-a-kind.

;)

Some (and just SOME) brilliant drum solos that I've cautiously chosen follow below:


http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichsticktrick.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1970.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1978.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichsin.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichchannel.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichjames.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/edshaughnessy.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichkrupabattle.html

Have fun!

:)

ps. Post (re)edited.

Thanks, michael drums! You're welcome.

Buddy is an obssession of mine (with good reason). I'm just trying to educate people in order to give them the tools for a better understanding of a masterpiece (what would be of Salvador Dali without some explanations in order to give your own perception the ability to provide to itself a "better and deeper picture" of such a piece of art?). :)

[michael drums]

Some nice/important points to look for (as I understand them) when watching to a Buddy Rich drum solo:

1. Observe the way (as much as how easy) he crosses his arms and execute all kinds of hand and arm movements so smoothly (sometimes they seem supernatural...);

2. Try to apreciate-and-understand Buddy's phrasings (sequences of drum notes and moves); dynamics over the snare drum and his calculated accents;

3. The more complex and admirable things are, sometimes, hidden from the more obvious/explicit observations (again, try to understand his moves, sometimes you just don't take notice, but impossible things are happening right before your eyes, you simply isn't paying the deserved attention);

4. There's always a brilliant sense of time through the solo (even when it seems all-messy, there's always a jazzistic broken time going on);

5. Observe his left-hand movements and try to understand the incredible dynamics of his left-hand alone (quite amazing);

6. Try to understand his constructions and how Buddy used to mix swing, technique, speed and hand/arms movements' control (or coordination), musicality and everything else in favor of a GREAT and memorable drum solo;

7. Try to vislumbrate (as Buddy said himself) his solos as "well told stories": there's a fine and interesting beginning, an exciting mid, and a phenomenal end, when everything reaches "it's top"). Also, in most of his solos, there's a so long sequence of exciting creative moments that not even one second is dispersed by a boring moment. Incredible. Very consistent phrasing quality through the whole solos.

In other words: try to THINK like Buddy in that particular "drummoment".

Just some advices in order to better understand why Buddy was so one-of-a-kind.

;)

Some (and just SOME) brilliant drum solos that I've cautiously chosen follow below:


http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichsticktrick.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1970.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrich1978.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichsin.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichchannel.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichjames.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/edshaughnessy.html

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichkrupabattle.html

Have fun!

:)

Thanks CadaveR (Ivo)! It's always a pleasure to see a post that is "from the heart" and right on target with honesty and clearity. Buddy is, and ALWAYS will be, one-of-a-kind. The most gifted drummer to ever pick up sticks. Period...Play on!

[CadaveR (Ivo)]

Again: thanks michael drums! For the kind words. See you around.

Long live Buddy Rich.

[michael drums]

Again: thanks michael drums! For the kind words. See you around.

Long live Buddy Rich.

Anytime, CadaveR (Ivo)! It's my pleasure to read posts from honest and positive members, who have something decent to share with others. And your views on Buddy are what makes this thread worth reading. Thanks for your truthful contributions and insight. Peace...Play on! ;-)

Long live Buddy...INDEED!

[murphinelli]

The Grand Master advises practicing on a pillow...

Found this 1942 column on www.bopworks.net. If my math is correct he would have been 25 when he wrote this column...

Funny dude, even as a youngster:
"I would also suggest using your own pillow, so as not to antagonize any members of your family against your playing drums."

http://www.bopworks.net/ads/buddyRichColumn.jpg

[michael drums]

The Grand Master advises practicing on a pillow...

Found this 1942 column on www.bopworks.net. If my math is correct he would have been 25 when he wrote this column...

Funny dude, even as a youngster:
"I would also suggest using your own pillow, so as not to antagonize any members of your family against your playing drums."

http://www.bopworks.net/ads/buddyRichColumn.jpg

Wow, murph! Great find. Talk about a vintage article. Yea, Buddy had a fantastic sense of humor when he wasn't so "serious". Funny guy, indeed...Thanks and Play On! ;-)

[Liquid_Drummer]

Buddy Rich is to drumming what Yoda was to the Jedi.

There is no better drummer alive. Musicality, chops, speed, creativity etc.. There is a reason that today's greatest drummers all have the same reaction to watching Buddy rich play.. They shake their heads in disbelief at his abilities.

[Kamikazee89]

Someone told me that Rich never actually learned how to read music. Is this true? I can believe it, but I'm just curious if anyone else has any knowledge of it.

[Class A Drummer]

I would think he could read music, although he was self taught. My reasons for thinking he could read music is because he has a drum book out.


Edit-2100

[theduke86]

He couldn't read at all. As an interesting side note, Philly Joe Jones used to read the charts with his band and Buddy would sit there and memorise the entire chart. He was only one of the drummers in the "warmup" position. I know there were a few more other than Philly but I'm at a loss for names, I'm not a BR fanatic (although I do like him).
Class A- as for the book, it's not actually written by Buddy. I bought a copy and it's collecting dust on a shelf on the other side of the continent. It's ghost written by another author, basically works you through some rudiments in the ways that Buddy used to utilise them.

[mlehnertz]

Not a lick. The popular rumor was that someone else would read the chart down, he'd listen and memorize, and then copy/embellish what was played.

Doh, theduke beat me to it.

Someone told me that Rich never actually learned how to read music. Is this true? I can believe it, but I'm just curious if anyone else has any knowledge of it.

[Class A Drummer]

He couldn't read at all. As an interesting side note, Philly Joe Jones used to read the charts with his band and Buddy would sit there and memorise the entire chart. He was only one of the drummers in the "warmup" position. I know there were a few more other than Philly but I'm at a loss for names, I'm not a BR fanatic (although I do like him).
Class A- as for the book, it's not actually written by Buddy. I bought a copy and it's collecting dust on a shelf on the other side of the continent. It's ghost written by another author, basically works you through some rudiments in the ways that Buddy used to utilise them.

i understand. So do you think it helped your playing much if any? Or just keep you sharp on rudiments?

[vadrum]

He couldn't read at all. As an interesting side note, Philly Joe Jones used to read the charts with his band and Buddy would sit there and memorise the entire chart. He was only one of the drummers in the "warmup" position. I know there were a few more other than Philly but I'm at a loss for names, I'm not a BR fanatic (although I do like him).
Class A- as for the book, it's not actually written by Buddy. I bought a copy and it's collecting dust on a shelf on the other side of the continent. It's ghost written by another author, basically works you through some rudiments in the ways that Buddy used to utilise them.


not a BR fanatic either, but i'm assuming the book in question is the book written in conjucntion w/ henry adler (this is the only BR book i know of). according to henry adler, who got a reputation for being BR's instructor, buddy only came to him to learn to read. there was no technique discussed. adler stated this in an interview and i believe it was on the PASIC website. so, according to adler, he could read.

there is also a video out by ted something or other, who was an adler student, that works thru that book. basically adler's approach was the BR approach. i don't particularly agree w/ the approach that they take w/ the rudiments but the book in and of itself isn't bad.

[vadrum]

Buddy Rich is to drumming what Yoda was to the Jedi.

There is no better drummer alive. Musicality, chops, speed, creativity etc.. There is a reason that today's greatest drummers all have the same reaction to watching Buddy rich play.. They shake their heads in disbelief at his abilities.


i know this is a BR thread and all, but i kinda' have to disagree on buddy's musicality being a benchmark for drummers to follow. his technical ability, especially since he was self taught, for sure. but his musicality i don't think was on par w/ tony williams. why? because buddy was a big band drummer, period. that was what he was good at. he approached everything he played as a big band drummer. nothing wrong with that, except that he did not want to move forward or away from that. tony, on the other hand, set a standard for jazz and set the standard for fusion. he was also open to playing music that was little more "outside". i think that this makes tony's musicality a better gauge to compare yourself to or to try to obtain.

having said that, i love buddy. great big band drummer, there are no big band drummers out there that could drive a band better. his 60's material was fantastic, his later material not quite as good (musically, arrangements and all). again, not meant to be a bust on buddy, i just don't regard his musicality as one of his more redeeming qualities as a musician or a drummer.

[theduke86]

i understand. So do you think it helped your playing much if any? Or just keep you sharp on rudiments?
Well, I mean, I didn't really get much out of it. I'm sure someone could get a lot of stuff out of it too, just like any book. I mean, with books, technical exercises don't really give you much to work with, it's your application of these book exercises that'll help your playing. So, check it out, I guess, you might like it.

[Hummada]

Every one can give there opinions all day long about who the best drummers are,and most will tell you it's Buddy-especailly the people who have experienced his show. I have not seen him live,but I can get somewhat of an experience through the videos and just to see the video is more than amazing!

The opinions on him about him just being a big band drummer or a repetitive drummer are out there because people are not learning more about what kind(s!) of music Buddy played. And people are not listening to what he said. He said that there is no style(or,there are no rock or jazz drummers-there are only drummers) and that if you can play,then you can play any type of music.

[murphinelli]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From a 1956 Voice of America Radio Interview w/Buddy Rich and Gene Krupa

Conover: Well, how do you feel about the idea of drums used almost as a melody instrument rather than just a rhythmic instrument?

Buddy: Well, it would be very nice if you could play a melody on it. But primarily, the drummer's supposed to sit back there and swing the band. Am I right?

Gene: Yeah. If you're going to start with melody you'll need some tympani, I think.

Buddy: (Laughs). And some tunable tom-toms.

Both: (Laugh).

Gene: That's right.

Buddy: I think the drummer should sit back there and play some drums, and never mind about the tunes. Just get up there and wail behind whoever is sitting up there playing the solo. And this is what is lacking, definitely lacking in music today.


Here's the whole thing for your reading pleasure:
http://www.drummerman.net/buddy.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And also a recent find on YouTube....funny stuff....1980 Interview on Johnny Carson Show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFnDXBUaCQg

[Michael G]

I did not read through this whole thread but I thought I would throw in an short funny of him.

While Buddy Rich was being prepped for surgery, the nurse asked him if he had any allergies. He said no, but then quickly corrected himself and said "Oh yeah, I am allergic to one thing, country music."

Frank Zappa was the one who paid for his surgery, Rich at the time was in trouble from the IRS.

[cnw60]

I just happened to be viewing a couple of Buddy's videos from his DW page and it's amazing to me how much space there is between his floor tom and the snare drum / ride tom.

It never really struck me before when I watched him play, but it's crazy how far away it is, especially when he starts cross sticking over to the floor tom, working the left hand both over and under his right arm. It makes me wonder if he needed that much room to manuever or if he felt that it made the arm movements more impressive or showy because they're exaggerated by the distance he covers between the drums.

[TommyLee4Ever]

Wow, I just got finished watching some Buddy Rich videos on drummerworld.com......

[MikeMastropierro]

Can anyone fill me in on some info about Buddy's gear?

What heads did he like? (and what would be a a modern replacement if it didn't exist?)

What size were his drums?

What kind of cymbals he preferred?

Thanks!

Mike

[stevo]

Anyone know what he could have played as WFD?

[mikejames]

Basic stuff for fans of Buddy...

Caveat:
Like any drummer, Buddy occasionally used "other" equipment, for example when he flew in for an appearance on the "Tonight Show". So, the equipment I'll list is what he used personally in his bands, most of the time. Same goes for "tuning"... Buddy wasn't the type to sit at the drums for hours with a drum key, (and didn't need to) so of course, you may find some recordings with slightly different tunings than listed here.

----------------- Drums

Buddy played a variety of drums, of course, over his career of nearly 70 years. Typically though, they were what we'd think of as "vintage" today... meaning fewer or single plies of thicker maple. He mostly used a 14" X 24" bass drum, although both early and late in his career, he used a 26" bass drum. Mounted tom was a 9" X 13", along with two 16" X 16" floor toms.

----------------- "Tuning" or "Tensioning", as he liked to call it

Beginning in the 1950's until the end of his life, Buddy preferred Remo white-coated "Diplomat" heads on all of the drums. (and yes, they used to be available as bass drun heads too.) These heads are (thankfully!) still available today, so he would probably still use them. The nearest "equivalent" would be the Remo "Ambassodor" heads. Buddy was instrumental in many of Remo's developments, asking for thinner heads for example. (hence the "Diplomat" and "Diplomat M5"... even thinner) He also asked Remo Belli for a way to make his bass drum heads last a little longer, (He used a wood beater) and hence the "dot" was created.

Tom and bass drum tensioning was the same. "Bottom" or "reso"-side heads were tighter, (Musically, when the heads were new, the reso heads were nearly the same pitch, but as the top heads "sink in" (see below) they could be as much as a minor third higher in pitch) Snare drum bottom head was a Remo clear "Diplomat" snare side head, also tensioned tighter than the top head. (musically, a 4th to a 6th higher in pitch) The APPROXIMATE top head (or "batter" side) pitch of Buddy's drums was usually:

Snare: A to C (Bottom head E to F)
9" X 13" D
16" X 16" (#1) G
16" X 16" (#2) C (very loose)
Bass Drum A

In their "new head" configuration, the drums sound bright and crisp, with the large halls Buddy typically played in providing depth and natural "reverb". Buddy would sometimes let the drums "sink in", meaning that over a week or two, the pitches above would (uniformlly) go down in pitch from a step to a minor third. In this range, they start to sound "loose" and "papery". When using "Ambassodor" heads, they don't stretch as much, so the change isn't as extreme.

----------------- Cymbals

He preferred "A. Zildjian" cymbals, (thinner than most people would expect) and they nearly always included the same setup:

Ride cymbals in the 20" to 22" size, from light to medium (brief period in the 1980's when he used much thicker (higher-pitched) rides

Mostly 14" (Light "New Beat" type) hi-hats, but sometimes, 13"

One 18" thin crash (on his left side)

One 18" med-thin crash (on his right side)

Usually a 6" thin splash, but sometimes an 8" thin splash

At the end of his career, he added a (22" "Swish Knocker") China-type cymbal

Still a versatile setup today... Suitable for a wide range of styles.

[Dzionix]

is buddy rich still alive now?

[mikejames]

Buddy passed away April 2, 1987.

[Dzionix]

i wasnt born even... ;) its about 20 yrs we dont have him...

[Sirwill]

In Buddy Rich's DVD they show old black and white photos of Buddy playing just two bass drums! I'm dieing to hear a peace of this audio if it excised?

[Wavelength]

I don't know if any recordings exist, but I'm willing to bet it would sound just like Buddy Rich playing two bass drums.

[Michael G]

I don't know if any recordings exist, but I'm willing to bet it would sound just like Buddy Rich playing two bass drums.

Really? I could've swore it would've sounded like Buddy Rich playing two bass drums.

[Old Doc Yak]

Interesting story behind this. As we all know, Louis Bellson, performs on a kit that features two kick drums. This was a new idea at the time and Louis was doing some really nice patterns on the double kick. Some of Louis fans irritated BR by bringing up how good he was. According to Mel Torme, who was friends with BR, Buddy commented that "Louis better learn to play one bass drum before he screws around with two". At that time Buddy and Mel were opening together at the (I think)Paramount Theater in NYC. Right before Torme was to go on Buddy kicked off a real flag waver, fast tempo tune. During the song, he left his kit and went to the front of the stage where he had just two bass drums - nothing else. Torme said that BR played " the damnedest drum solo" he'd ever heard. With just his feet!! Typical Buddy.

[Fur drummer]

Interesting story behind this. As we all know, Louis Bellson, performs on a kit that features two kick drums. This was a new idea at the time and Louis was doing some really nice patterns on the double kick. Some of Louis fans irritated BR by bringing up how good he was. According to Mel Torme, who was friends with BR, Buddy commented that "Louis better learn to play one bass drum before he screws around with two". At that time Buddy and Mel were opening together at the (I think)Paramount Theater in NYC. Right before Torme was to go on Buddy kicked off a real flag waver, fast tempo tune. During the song, he left his kit and went to the front of the stage where he had just two bass drums - nothing else. Torme said that BR played " the damnedest drum solo" he'd ever heard. With just his feet!! Typical Buddy.

Just his feet, no sticks? I would've liked to see that.

[somedrummer]

Yes, Old Doc has it right. It was at the Paramount, by the way. I would be highly doubtful that any recordings exist, or if they do, they are in someones private vault and will never make it out (although, if said person decided to let them out, they would undoubtedly make a good deal of money). That would have been quite a thing to see..

[Sirwill]

Thank you for the great replies. Very interesting info.

[aydee]

Interesting story behind this. As we all know, Louis Bellson, performs on a kit that features two kick drums. This was a new idea at the time and Louis was doing some really nice patterns on the double kick. Some of Louis fans irritated BR by bringing up how good he was. According to Mel Torme, who was friends with BR, Buddy commented that "Louis better learn to play one bass drum before he screws around with two". At that time Buddy and Mel were opening together at the (I think)Paramount Theater in NYC. Right before Torme was to go on Buddy kicked off a real flag waver, fast tempo tune. During the song, he left his kit and went to the front of the stage where he had just two bass drums - nothing else. Torme said that BR played " the damnedest drum solo" he'd ever heard. With just his feet!! Typical Buddy.

great story! I personally thought Buddys hands, not his feet were his greatness. If you were to isolate his footwork, it did'nt seem like anything special. Would I be right in saying that?

[wy yung]

Interesting story behind this. As we all know, Louis Bellson, performs on a kit that features two kick drums. This was a new idea at the time and Louis was doing some really nice patterns on the double kick. Some of Louis fans irritated BR by bringing up how good he was. According to Mel Torme, who was friends with BR, Buddy commented that "Louis better learn to play one bass drum before he screws around with two". At that time Buddy and Mel were opening together at the (I think)Paramount Theater in NYC. Right before Torme was to go on Buddy kicked off a real flag waver, fast tempo tune. During the song, he left his kit and went to the front of the stage where he had just two bass drums - nothing else. Torme said that BR played " the damnedest drum solo" he'd ever heard. With just his feet!! Typical Buddy.

Actually, I believe Buddy did this as a solo at a JATP gig. Blew the house down too.

"Take that Louis!" ;-)

[aydee]

Here's Kenny Arnoff's quote on watching Buddy play:

"The one thing that nobody can dispute was that that guys left hand was amazing. It was like, his left hand was like Fred Astaire. It was like tap dancing thru the song. Accenting with the band but yet another melody, a whole nother little melody, going on, dancing along and until you try to imitate this thing you have no idea how difficult it is. It's not just the notes, it's the dynamics, the accents...the musicality of it all."
Kenny Aronoff

[aydee]

great story! I personally thought Buddys hands, not his feet were his greatness. If you were to isolate his footwork, it did'nt seem like anything special. Would I be right in saying that?

more about his hands: "My fondest memory of Buddy performing was when he would perform a solo on the rims and the cymbal bells. The rims solo was awesome. The speed, intensity and movements of the rim solo matched that of his regular drum head solo but during the rim solo he never ever slipped and hit the drum head once. You only ever heard the sticks on the rims. Awesome, and a very pretty sound. His cymbal bell solos same way. He goes around and around the cymbals hitting only the bells. Sometimes he would have to stand up to reach them."

[Tutin]

Truly a spectacular guy.

Apparently he was a horrible person?

[King Of Drums]

My dad saw the Buddy rich big band one time in the 80's when Buddy had a broken arm. He played through the entire show with 1 arm. He did all his solos too! My Dad said it was the most incredible concert he's ever seen.

[Mook]

great story! I personally thought Buddys hands, not his feet were his greatness. If you were to isolate his footwork, it did'nt seem like anything special. Would I be right in saying that?


No, he had one of the fastest & most dynamic right foots I've ever heard, truly spectacular!

There's a bit of footage where he plays a drum duel with Jerry Lewis & there's a close up of his foot for 30 seconds or so & it's astounding.

[Skacatz]

Can anyone give me the title of that book? I want to see if I can find a copy somewhere.

Thanks

[mikejames]

Buddy's footwork (and everything else) was tremendous. If you listen to his recordings through good speakers, or with headphones, or heard him live, you know that his playing was totally evolved. (Crank it up! Big bands like Buddy's were meant to be heard loud.)

Not only did he play very dynamic and interesting things with his bass drum, but his use of hi-hat is like no other drummer. He used it a thousand times in every song, punctuating his ideas with crisp time-keeping, or little "mini-crashes", included the hi-hat (with his foot) into a lot of his pattern-oriented playing, and seemed to have complete independence.

The music speaks for itself. If you'd like to hear some totally awesome examples of this man's playing, I'm hosting quite a few previously-unpublished concert recordings of Buddy and his bands, on my site (free to download for personal use) at http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/br_clips.html This is done with Cathy Rich's knowledge and permission. (Buddy's daughter - http://www.buddyrich.com - I'm a moderator on that forum.)

Enjoy this incredible music and drumming!

[GetAgrippa]

It is wonderful to see so many Buddy Rich fans. He inspired me to both play the drums and take up martial arts. He is the Grand Master. Way ahead of his time. I especially liked his crossover moves. He was self taught also, probably no one can beat his hi-hat work. His age never seemed to slow him down. I hear he was an Angry Elf, but he always seemed gracious on the tube.

[Sirwill]

When was the first time you drummers found the master for the first time. I came upon him on the Christmas of 1975 when I was 5 yrs old and it changed me till this very day!

[Class A Drummer]

Actually, i saw him in the movie "School of Rock" and even though i could not hear the sound, the small part that showed him looked amazing, so i somehow found a video of it online. Blew my mind.

[Michael G]

Actually, i saw him in the movie "School of Rock" and even though i could not hear the sound, the small part that showed him looked amazing, so i somehow found a video of it online. Blew my mind.

really?

where in school of rock was this clip

[Class A Drummer]

really?

where in school of rock was this clip

probably around half way into the movie, they are playing this song by the ramones, and they do this little thing where the drummer kid is watching 3 clips, one is buddy, one is keith moon, and the other is some jazz guy i forget his name.

[Mendozart]

When I was about 6 or 7 I was at Disneyland with my family and we came upon a big band playing in Dixieland. I remember being mesmerized by the drummer and didn't even want to leave. I later found out it was Buddy Rich.

[nickg]

it was probably in the mid 60's. Buddy's band was the house band on a summer replacement show on CBS that was hosted by Buddy Greco. i didn't know who Buddy was but my dad did and told me to watch his band. so i've been hooked ever since!!

[Old Doc Yak]

The first time I heard Buddy was in the early '40s when my teenage cousins were playing Artie Shaw records. I remember listening to "Traffic Jam" with Buddy swinging away. Good grief, am I that old?

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I'm sure it had to be on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. I can't give you a date because I was a fan of the show almost from the very beginning and I remember him being on the show many times.

[fourstringdrums]

When I was about 12 or 13 my grandparents gave me a Vic Firth promotional cassette that the music store was selling. It was a tape of one of Buddy's Solos and it blew me away. I couldn't imagine how someone could be so fast on the drums...it wasn't human.

I still wish I had that tape.

My dad actually saw him when he was in school. Buddy came to his high school of all places, but the apparently the idiot running the spot light focused it on his bass drum so you couldn't see much. I'm sure Buddy was mad as hell after that.

My old drum teacher actually met Buddy and got to play his set. He got to see him backstage after a show and Buddy said "You're a drummer huh? Let's see what you can do" and he handed him the sticks and then walked away *lol* But he got to play his drums for a few minutes. He said his drums were CRANKED. The snare felt like a rock.

[jjmason777]

I don't remember how old I was, I guess around 10 or so, I saw him on the Carson show. I consider him the Bruce Lee of drumming! And yes his drums are plywood tight. Check out how high they are tuned in this video. http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/buddyrichsticktrick.html

[Derek]

I first heard Buddy when I was in the 7th grade, around 1973. For some reason he was on location with Wide World of Sports on TV and played Wipe Out ( of all things ) like it's never been played before or since.
After high school I got to see him in person a few times . The first was at a small dinner club in my hometown ( quite a small town on the outskirts of Orange County , Ca. )
The other times were at Disneyland. Each time I was fortunate to be within a few feet of
Buddy and got to meet him and get his autograph between sets. I only saw him these few times, but never saw him say no to an autograph request.
Needless to say , his playing was amazing each time.

[KarlCrafton]

I can't remember when I first saw Buddy--probably on the Tonight show--but I did see him in person once.
I was in 7th or 8th grade ('77 or '78), and I saw him at an area high school.

I got his auograph, and could have gotten a pair of his sticks if I would have taken them off his kit between sets....but 'back then' no one would really think of doing that.

Nowadays kids would just snatch them.

I do remember the band and his playing was great and he was really nice when I asked for his autograph.
He was funny with the audience too.