TOM TUNING

[dunchykong]

i have a pacific fxr kit. it says it has true pitch tunning. the 22x18 virgin bass drum has A stamped inside the shell under the date. the 16x14 floor has an A aswell. the 12x9 doesnt say anything under the date, nor does my 14x6 snare, mabee they forgot to stamp them??? anyways, how can i achive these notes with my drums? i tried actually using a guitar tunner but that didnt work well. any suggestions?i love my new kit but tunning is a little off and i know they would sound sweeeet if they were tuned up a bit better.

[Signals]

i have a pacific fxr kit. it says it has true pitch tunning. the 22x18 virgin bass drum has A stamped inside the shell under the date. the 16x14 floor has an A aswell. the 12x9 doesnt say anything under the date, nor does my 14x6 snare, mabee they forgot to stamp them??? anyways, how can i achive these notes with my drums? i tried actually using a guitar tunner but that didnt work well. any suggestions?i love my new kit but tunning is a little off and i know they would sound sweeeet if they were tuned up a bit better.

I'm not 100% certain about this, but I believe the true pitch means that the lugs have more threads to them, thus more precise tuning can be achieved.

I do not believe they are timber matched like DW's shells.

Perhaps someone else can offer clearer information.

Ed

[rodie]

about the only thing i can recommend would be to have a guitar or bass player play drone notes, and try to pitch-match by ear...normally, with a 5 pc kit, its fairly useless. if you did the terry bozzio thing, or had octobans, you could tune for a true octave, if you're playing a keyboard or guitar duet line. pick a key, tune per note in that key, and play "flight of the bumblebee" along with them.

pitch tuning a standard drum set won't translate as well, since you have large gaps all over the spectrum. trying to fill a 7 note ascending run from 22", 16", 13", and 12" drums won't translate the scale well at all. IMO it's more useful to tune in a general vicinity, simply to compliment the more exact notes of the kb/guitar. let them worry about the specifics...:)

[wooltonboy]

I've noticed that when I'm tuning my 10" tom, I hardly have to put any tension on the rods to get the sound that i like.
I don't tune it particularly high in pitch, but when I get it to my liking, I notice that the tension rods are really quite loose. Is this normal with smaller toms? Like I stated, I don't have it tuned low at all, in fact it's probably a little higher than most people would have it, but I'm amazed at how little tension are on the rods. Also, how do you get rid of that sympathetic snare buzz from this tom?
Any advice?
Cheers
Phil

[Thinshells]

a 10" tom (maple) is the easiest to tune. My birch works well with a variety of heads.

Single ply coated or clear for higher pitch

Pinstripe, powerstroke 3 or g2 for a fatter, wetter sound.

If it's close to the snare, yes I have had it cause buzz, but cut down on that by detuning, replacing the snares with puresound and getting a hazy 300 for the bottom of the snare.

Getting either a high-ish pitch from the 10" or a fatter sounds is easy on that size drum. I use either resonant glass or evans thin black resos.

I have always found the smaller toms easier to get into the sound range I want than the middle toms.

[wooltonboy]

Any advice for 14" tom tuning?
Since I got my new kit, with sizes of 8,10,12,14,16 I seem to be having a bit of a hard time as to where the 14" floor fits in.
Do I try to tune it low like the floor tom it is, or because I have the 16"floor, do I get it into the "rack tom" range?
I know it's a hard question to answer, because everyone's tuning is different, but of all the toms, this one seems to give me the most grief.
Thanks
Phil

[finnhiggins]

Any advice for 14" tom tuning?
Since I got my new kit, with sizes of 8,10,12,14,16 I seem to be having a bit of a hard time as to where the 14" floor fits in.
Do I try to tune it low like the floor tom it is, or because I have the 16"floor, do I get it into the "rack tom" range?
I know it's a hard question to answer, because everyone's tuning is different, but of all the toms, this one seems to give me the most grief.
Thanks
Phil

Go low. My advice would be to just tune each drum to its natural "sweet spot" - bring the tension up until you clear wrinkling and start to get a nice solid tone. If you do that with both the 14" and 16" toms you should get a nice interval between them, while still giving you "floor tom" tone on each of them. Two floors is nice, you can do great Bonham triplet type fills.

[Thinshells]

IMO a 14" tom should sound like it has a pair. I can't stand it when someone tunes up a 14" and it goes "ding," that's what smaller toms are for. I grew into the world of drumming when a 14" was a formidable sounding tom size...not a lightweight.

Small toms are much better at higher pitches, let them do thier job. The 14" should fit midway between 12 and 16 with no problem.

[wooltonboy]

IMO a 14" tom should sound like it has a pair. I can't stand it when someone tunes up a 14" and it goes "ding," that's what smaller toms are for. I grew into the world of drumming when a 14" was a formidable sounding tom size...not a lightweight.

Small toms are much better at higher pitches, let them do thier job. The 14" should fit midway between 12 and 16 with no problem.

I think my problem has been where to "fit" the 14" in the mix.
If I do a decending tom roll from 8" to 16", I'm trying to get that "melodic" flow to all the toms.
I'd actually like to get the rack toms up a little higher in pitch, but then should the 14" follow suit, or tune it deeper like a floor tom, therefore having a "drop" from the 12" to the 14"? Surely with a 14x14, I should be able to get somewhat of a deep sound from it?
Maybe it's my tuning of the bootom head. I'm never sure on floor toms how tight the reso should be. There seems to be an equal amount of people who have the reso tighter, as there is looser. The batter on the floor toms always seems to go deeper and more solid sounding when the reso is quite a bit tighter. Anyone else find this?

[sir_wagner]

well I like my reso heads just (very!) slightly looser than the batter...at least i have it that way on my premier kit...can't get my yamaha to sound right anyways ;-)

however the way i like to tune my toms 10;12;14;16 is like the trumpets go...you know like the english hunting theme or whatever...it goes like this: dum dom dim dididim dom dododom dum dom dum boom...well, that helps...doesn't it...you guys must think i'm completely crazy...

complements on that name of yours too...

so long

phil(thy)

[NickB]

I use 4 toms on my set-10", 13", 14", and 16" floor. I want to tume them by pitch so they (for lack of better term), harmonize or, blend in pitch. In the past, I've experimented by loosenening or tightening the TOP heads.. What about the bottom? What purpose does the bottom serve in tuning?

[NUTHA JASON]

please read this website. it really is the required reading of any serious drummer.

THE TUNING BIBLE
http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/ (http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/)

j

[Garvin]

Nice link! Thanks Nutha.

[Drad-dog]

What a great site! An excellent resource!

[wooltonboy]

Just a (maybe silly) question.
What's the average "turn" on the drum key that you folks use when tuning reso's?
I find that on the batter heads, I only need maybe 1/4 to 1/2 a turn on the key (from finger tight), but I find I'm using much more tension on the reso's to get the same pitch.
Should the reso's be at least a full turn on the key?
Phil

[fourstringdrums]

Atleast. I don't know how many turns mine have, but my reso's are pretty tight now (atleast I think so)

[wooltonboy]

Atleast. I don't know how many turns mine have, but my reso's are pretty tight now (atleast I think so)

That's what I figured, thanks.
It's just that I've noticed that if I apply even 1 full turn from finger tight, my reso's sound like a tympany, very tight sounding...strange?

[fourstringdrums]

That's what I figured, thanks.
It's just that I've noticed that if I apply even 1 full turn from finger tight, my reso's sound like a tympany, very tight sounding...strange?

Yea, it's been hard for me to figure out the whole reso tuning thing. It you muffle one head, the other will sound higher, so try holding the drum and hitting the reso without the drum being on the floor, then you'll hear the actual pitch.

[zildjian_dude101]

i like to tune my batter heads a little tighter, like maybe 2 1/2 turns, then i tune my reso heads a little lower, like 2 turns to give it a high to low sound if u know wat i mean

[wooltonboy]

i like to tune my batter heads a little tighter, like maybe 2 1/2 turns, then i tune my reso heads a little lower, like 2 turns to give it a high to low sound if u know wat i mean

Wow, to me that sounds really tight. I wonder if I'm mistaken on what the term "turn" means?
If the end of one side of the "T" is say pointing "North", one turn to me would mean rotating the key 360 degrees until it's back where you started. Is that what we're all doing?
Because, again, if I used 2 full turns on any of my toms, they surely would sound very very high in pitch. For example, on my rack toms, i use about 1/2 a turn (180 degrees) maximum from just where the tension rod bites into the hoop.
Maybe i have to re-think this tuning thing!...lol Maybe my toms are all way too low in pitch.

[jackothedrummer1]

Tuning is a matter of opinion. Sometimes music calls for higher pitched toms, in Heavy Metal and Funk usually a lower tom. It's just preference. Although, 2-1/2 sounds like a lot......But if sounds good, I'm all for it!

[bubulikan]

hi all...(sorry for my english)

I recently went to a Jack deJohnette Quartet concert and Jack played a Sonor Delite set ( if I' am right you own a Sonor Delite... ) and his toms were tuned VERY high and still sounded amazingly good.... if that is of any help to you

[A thunder of Coxy]

I cant see how its possible to get that great sound we talk of by tuning toms REALLY high. I have Evans EC2's on the batter and Pinstripes on resonant I do tune them quite higher than I used to around 1 and a quarter full turns on each lug, same for resonant but anything past that I get a horrid pingy sound yea prob know what I mean. I was thinking maybe its to do with clear heads, can ye only tune them that high and get great results with only coated heads? Tom sizes 12" rack tom and 14" floor. I tune both the heads on the snare high around 5 full turns on each lug but the snare tuning we know is completely different. Cheers........so a bit of help here? ha ha

[Capitaine Quebec]

Everything depens on which sound you want to get. If you want to get low sound, you will need to tune the reso head a bit more than the batter head. If you tune the batter higher than reso, you will have a more punchy sound. What i suggest, tune the batter head and the reso head the same (Example, 1 turn on both heads) get the sound you like. After adjust the reso head like you want, try to tune it more or less and see what kind of sound you get and what fits you best. Also, the size on the shell will matter in sound, deeper shell will normally sound lower

[♪créme]

i know how to tune toms, but i never can decide whitch pitches to tune them to (i mean BOTH sides) can anyone help me out?

[Mike Firth]

I do the warm sound, i just keep the reso low pitch, and the batter about a pitch higher than the resonant

[Stert]

what i like to do is tune the reso side a fair bit higher than the batter side. this way the sound bounces off the reso head a bit harder. personally this is the only way i will tune my toms.

i think bonham did this too, if i remember right. i think i saw it on a drummerworld video actualy.

my drum teacher showed me this a long time ago

[Danny]

i also tune my toms with the reso side extremely high, and the batter side a hair less high than the reso. It really opens up the sound. If you barely tap the drums, they all sound high pitched, but when you hit them you get a VERY loud, open, warm tone...for some reason it makes me feel like i'm really getting the sound that should be coming out of the drum when i tune them this way... It's the best way i've found so far to tune the toms. (that sounds good to me)

[Drummin_Dan]

It really depends on the tone you want. If you want lots of action, the reso head would be higher because of quicker responce. If you want more projection and a larger sound, you would tune the reso lower. I usually have my lower head a 1/2 step lower than the upper side. Also, I only have 3 toms, do I tune them a 5th apart to get a larger range. It's really a matter of taste.

[♪créme]

thanx guys, but what is the batter side/reso side? which is the upper/ lower

[THIEB]

the reso is the lower ( the one you don't hit) and the batter is the opposite( the upper one)

[the rich]

I'd say always keep the reso tighter than the batter. Even if just a little.

[Berberman]

i recomend this site: http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/
the drum turning bible. That says it all

happy tunning.

[PearlZildjian757]

hey guys, i was wondering how to get that nice "doo" sound out of the toms, or do i just have to experiment tuning. thanks

[rock_drummer91]

Just curious, what kind of head is on your tom(s)?

[PearlZildjian757]

um i think single ply pearl protone head

[Ashbash]

have a look at this site
http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/

[PearlZildjian757]

thanks and oh yea they're clear heads not coated incase you needed to know that

[RudimentalDrummer]

hey guys, i was wondering how to get that nice "doo" sound out of the toms, or do i just have to experiment tuning. thanks

Guess you have to loosen the Batter quite loosely, put e-ring on the toms, paste Tapes on it to get that doo.oo kinda sound. It's ok actually for now till you change New & Better Heads and by then you might not want the doo.oo kinda sound anymore

Your Batter is Pearl Protone ... what about your Resonant ... is it also Protone (a batter or a resonant)?.

[Thinshells]

is it also Protone (a batter or a resonant)?.

The protone is a crappy stock pearl batter head. (UGH) rather than a "Doo" from his toms with that head, he'll just get doo-doo.

Invest in some Aquarians or other quality heads. The protones gotta go.

[PearlZildjian757]

yea i think both the batter and resonant are protones

[Togg]

That website was very interesting, over the years I have tried many different ways of tuning, currently I use a drum gauge on the batter head to get the right tension and an accurate one across all heads. then I set the tone from the bottom head usually slightly higher pitched than the batter head until I get a nice ring.

I use no damping, and remo coated emperor heads.

I have big sizes as I like the ring so it's a 10x9 13x12 14x14 16x16 18x16 24x14. all of which are maple ludwigs, they produce a lovely 'doo' sound warm and slightly leathery.

[RudimentalDrummer]

That website was very interesting, over the years I have tried many different ways of tuning, currently I use a drum gauge on the batter head to get the right tension and an accurate one across all heads.

I have the drum gauge (bought at a sales) too, but I never use it to tune my drum. I still like the traditional way of tuning a drum or may be I'm just too lazy I guess.

[Ashbash]

drums are for listening to, not being admired mechanically. if you use a gauge, make sure you fine tune it by ear

[zildjian_dude101]

I agree.


blahblahblah twenty characters

[hateplow]

http://www.evansdrumheads.com/EVATunning.aspx

There's a great step-by-step guide on how to tune your heads there.

A good thing to remember is to keep the lug tension even on the individual heads, and then experiment with having the top head a little tighter, then the same, then a little looser in relation to the bottom one.

You'll learn a lot about resonance and how to control it.

[icystyck]

the stock pearl protones do gotta go...
asess your situation:size of room,resonancy of room and the general acoustics.And what brand. also:1 or 2 ply?
also, it depends on the head. Something like a aquarian Performane II(which is what i use) or any two ply for that matter will generally sound better tuned lower and with some dampening(like moongels).On the Contrary, if you want that beefy sound from a single play, tune it slightly higher.
just keep experimenting, youll eventually get the sound you want.

[XNIRVANAX]

what i go with on mine is a med tuning on the top and the bottoms are pretty high it give them a nice sound itl lbe really warn mid deep

[Alex]

I personally, tune them to the same thing for a really nice resonance, and then loosten off one of the lugs by maybe a half turn. Sometimes, I just leave them the same though. I like a nice full resonant sounds with my kit.

[Nizza594]

I find it almost impossible to get even tension across all the lugs, because it seems that as you try to adjust the pitch of one lug, it affects the whole pitch of the drum, so you no longer have the drum at the pitch you wanted, P****s me off to be honest!!

However generally speaking, I watched a bit of Dave Weckls 'Back To Basics' DVD, where he was talking about tuning the toms, and tunes the reso (bottom) head higher than the batter to get that nice doo, quick pitch decent sound which I like. Ive been doing that ever since.

[moe.ron]

so i got everything tuned the way i like but my 14x12 stage custom floor tom sounds different from my others. i'm not sure how to describe it but maybe boomy while the others are tight with little overtone. i'm thought it needed to be muffled so i threw some moon gels on it and it sounded better but i want to get it to sound more "in tune" with my other toms. any ideas?

[Guinness]

I really suck at tuning (no patience), but I bought this handy little gadget called the Drum Dial and it makes it soooo easy. Although, every time I tune my toms by the setting, the floor tom is always tuned too high. If you're using a standardized method of torque (or turns), just back that sucker off a bit on the batter and resonate and you'll find your tone.

[lilblakdak]

Start on the 14 and tune the other toms to it.Also read this:
http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/

[rritter]

I play a 6 piece Gretsch kit with 10,12,13, &16 inch toms. I like both Pin Stripes and Emperor heads. I tune my 13 inch tom to its sweet spot and I tune the ten inch tom to its sweet spot. And I bring in the 12 inch to tuning range between the 10 & 13. All of my Gretsch drums have a nice range so finding a good sound with the twelve inch has never been a problem. As for the floor tom I tune it to its lowest good sound. I consider the floor tom as a drum all its own and I don’t try to get a melodic sound with the other drums. For the tuning I tune both the batter and resonate head to the same pitch. This gives the drum its most open sound. My group doesn’t play with the kit mic’ed so this method of tuning produces the most volume along with a great sound. I also use no added dampening material. Hay …. Drums are supposed to resonate. Let them sing.

[PreppieNerd]

I have 8'', 10'', 12'', 14'' birch toms with stock heads. How would I tune these to get a "boing" sound with less resonance.

[rick913]

I've tried experimenting with my tom sound. I really dig the sound of Carter Beauford's toms. I really want to know how he tunes his toms. I use G2 clear.

[Bernhard]

I've tried experimenting with my tom sound. I really dig the sound of Carter Beauford's toms. I really want to know how he tunes his toms. I use G2 clear.

G2's clear: Tune very low, that they just become the first wrinkles...must be played loud then so...so it is, confirmed from many top drummers....

Bernhard

[pcmckay]

I have had a lot of luck with the tuning for oversized drums that Jeff Ochletree descibes on his DVD about Bonham's tuning secrets. The batter is tuned with a medium tension and the bottom head is tuned higher. My drums just project so much better and they have a nice full round sound.

[DoubleBassUrFace]

i wanna get my 12" tom to sound like a 10" for now, any advice on how i can get to that point or really close.

[tidge87]

i have a question about my 16" floor tom. When i tune it, is it supposed to sound a lot lower than the 12' and 13"? Like how my 12 and 13 toms sound like really close together, should my tom feel very low, or kind of match the 12 and 13?

[mickey]

hey guys...so I've got this old slingerland that i'm refurbishing. I'm having trouble with the floor tom. it's 13-14" in. I was just wondering if anyone knew what a drum that size naturally resonates to?

[15yroldvirgin]

so i tune my drums but there is alot of leftover resonance... like "overtones" i think theyre called.

anyways would the resonator shells being put on make a difference?

i have a really cheap set, the cheapest i could find, Groove Percussion.

BUT IM FIXING IT UP AND ILL HAVE PICS!!!!!!!! YAAAAAAAAA

so any help is welcome

thanks

[Pete Stoltman]

First of all. What are resonator shells? Not familiar with that term.

There have been a lot of threads and references to tuning on these boards. Check some of them out to see if you get some help. Remember, you don't want to stifle all the sound out of your drums. Good heads and proper tuning should be able to get your drums sounding acceptable. My guess is that you may have some cheap heads on those drums that would benefit from getting quality heads. You can also check websites of some of the drumhead companies that will give you some descriptions of the sonic properties of their heads. Check Remo, Evans, Aquarian, etc. Do you have a teacher or some other friendly drummer who may be able to help you get the maximum sound from your set? If not you might want to consider going that route too. Good luck.

[somedrummer]

Try searching. Only there will you hear me tell people to check my signature.

[15yroldvirgin]

k sry guys i forgot to use the search

my bad

[TheSteve]

Try different things, but make sure the bottom head is higher.

[ClockworkOrange]

I have had a lot of luck with the tuning for oversized drums that Jeff Ochletree descibes on his DVD about Bonham's tuning secrets. The batter is tuned with a medium tension and the bottom head is tuned higher. My drums just project so much better and they have a nice full round sound.


This is interesting, considering the fact that the only person that tuned Bonham's snare and final tuning on toms, was Bonham himself. Not Ocheltree, not Smith, not Hinton.

[Chip]

Seating, rough and fine tom/bass tuning (http://videodrumlessons.com/t1.htm)

Has some good videos, easier to understand than written explanations.

[cdrums21]

Howdy,
For all you guys who are struggling with tuning toms, I have a few tips that I've learned over my 30+ year career, along with some things shared to me by several well known artists. I’ll assume that you know the basics of tuning, putting a head on the drum and making sure the lug points on the head are all tuned to the same pitch, that stuff. Ok, here goes. First of all, I see a lot of posts about drummers using hydraulic oil filled heads, or heads that have duct tape or foam insulation taped on them, etc. Heads such as these are rarely, if at all used by professionals in live or recording settings. As a start, try to find what heads your favorite artist uses and see if they work for you. Experiment until you find what you like. Most of the time, well known drummers play their drums wide open with no muffling (with the exception of the bass drum). With that being said, here are tips that I have found to be used by most professionals I have come in contact with.
.
Some drummers like to tune by ear, while others tune to specific notes. Both ways are acceptable, as long as the kit sounds good as a whole and you don't have any weird frequencies causing excessive snare buzz or fighting each other when you strike two drums at the same time. As far as head tension goes, most drummers either tune their top and bottom heads to the same pitch, or bottom head tighter. Bottom head looser is rarely used. Both heads tuned to the same pitch produces a pure, full tone. Bottom head tighter shortens the sustain a bit and gives a firmer surface for the sound to reflect off of and “throws the sound back up at you” so to speak. Different drums and materials sound different, you just have to experiment. Both heads tuned the same might sound good on a tom from one kit, but it might have too much resonance if it’s the same size tom from a kit made from a different material.

If you want to tune by notes and have your toms be tuned to specific intervals (thirds, fourths, fifths) buy a pitch pipe. It helps a lot and you’ll know that your heads will be in tune every time. If not, just go with whatever sounds good to your ear. Famous drummers who do tune by their ear still end up having their drums be a specific pitch, whatever that may be, they just don’t consciously tune to that same pitch every time.. Put the heads on your toms, tune them up way tighter than you would play them, making sure the lug points are all the same pitch, and let them sit overnight. This allows the heads to stretch and properly seat themselves on the bearing edge. Next, start with the top head and go around the drum loosening the lugs, pressing on the center of the head until you reach the desired pitch. Too tight and the head feels like a table top, too loose and the head feels to floppy. Once you find the desired pitch, do the same to the bottom head.

Now here’s the cool stuff. Once the toms are tuned to the pitch you like with both heads the same, see how the whole kit sounds together. If you are getting a lot of weird overtones and snare buzz and you’ve tweaked the tuning of the drums a bit and still have a problem, here’s my suggestion.
With a pitch pipe, find what note your floor tom is tuned to on the top head. Most floor toms that I have heard seem to sound good at a “B” or “C”. If both heads are tuned to say a B, the drum will sustain a lot and feel a tad mushy. If you tune the bottom head up three notes higher (a minor third) the sustain will be a bit less, and the drum will feel about right. My point is, try tuning the bottom heads of your toms a minor third higher on the bottom. It helps to control the amount of sustain, has a pitch relationship with the top head so you don’t have dissonance between the two heads, and gives the drum some life. Now, to reduce more unwanted overtones, you should get the drums in tune with themselves. If you have 2 inch differences between your toms (i.e. 10,12,14,16) your drums will probably lend themselves to be tuned a major third (four notes) or a fourth (five notes) apart. If your toms are not 2 inches apart and configured differently, go with an interval that’s appropriate. For instance if you have 12” and 13” toms, you may want to tune them a minor third apart. If your drums are say 10”,13” and 16” like mine, try tuning in fifths.

For the record, here are the tom sizes on my kit, the heads I use and how I tune them. If nothing else, it can be a point of reference, but every drummer that has played my kit, even some famous players, have loved the way they felt and sounded.
Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute Nouveau
10x7.5 tom
13x9 tom
16x14 tom
Heads are usually coated or clear ambassadors, sometimes coated or clear emperors.
NO MUFFLING!!!
The 10” tom has the top head tuned to a “B” and the bottom head a minor third higher to a “D”. The 13” tom has the top head tuned to an “F” and the bottom head a minor third higher to a “G#”. The 16” floor tom has the top head tuned to a “B” and the bottom head a minor third higher to a “D”. They sound and feel great, no overtones or snare buzz. Please post some comments if you try this technique, or if you just want to say stuff about it. Good luck and happy tuning!!

[Guinness]

Thanks for that great info! Where have you been? I suck at tuning by ear, but I continue to give forth an effort to learn even though I use a Drum Dial when saving time is essential. I never thought about using a pitch pipe. I'm looking forward to giving a try. Once again, thanks for sharing this information.

[cdrums21]

No problem man. I have been watching from a distance for a few years but I finally decided to voice my tips and thoughts on the forum. I have been a professional drummer for a long, long time and I wish I would have had someone to talk to with insight into tuning back when I started. I wanted to help those who are struggling with this because it can be frustrating. I have "teched" for many famous drummers and have become friends with many. I'm a gear hound so I always pick these guys' brains because they're in the studio and playing live all the time, working with great engineers. By and large, they're advice and information they give is similar. I use these techniques myself in my playing situations and they always work for me. If you have any difficulty with it, let me know and I can steer you in the right direction and give you some more insight into a great drum sound. I'm just this fountain of knowledge, wanting to share my drumming experience, but nobody asks me!! I'm by no means the "know it all" of drumming, but I do have alot of practical experience and I know I can point people in the right direction toward getting the sound they want and help in other areas like head selection, characteristics of wood types, tuning and maintaining gear, etc.. Thanks man and stay tuned.....

[Capitaine Quebec]

Great thread, like it a lot, and i will certainly give it a try
thanks!

[beatsMcGee]

what famous player have played on your kit? JW..

and thanks for the info man, you sure do know alot about tuning.. my only problems are your pitch references. minor thirds? can you explain that stuff more please? thanks man !!!!

[NY_Recording_Freak]

I use the tama tension watch, works wonders.
and I use a program melodyne to help tune to the perfect note. but the pitch pipe sounds cool also.
I do break in the heads and all that, and you have to learn the true pitch of your drums to get the best sound out of them.
But reading your artical did really clarify some stuff for me, thanks!

[NUTHA JASON]

yes welcome to the forum...such informative posts are far more important than high post counts so...respect to you.

my advice on tom tuning follows yours but i add that care taken when you first put new heads on will save you loads of time and heart ache later. i have a tension watch and torque key but neither of them worked on my old heads because some of them had not been properly seated ... this meant that at some of the lugs there was tension even though the screws were barely tightened and when i followed the recommendations on the box i got horrible sound...so i tuned by ear and got acceptable sound.
nowdays i wax the bearing edge (with normal candle wax), very carefully seat the head, following the advice given in the tuning bible about pressing the head down in the center and cross torque tuning the whole head until it is slightly higher than i like it, leave it overnight and then down tune it and then retune it up to my normal pitch preference.

[must.warn.them]

now you say a layer of wax? so how liberal are you with this stuff. I would assume a light coating that is barely noticable but you never know. I will definatly have to try that next time around.

Now, do all of you drum guru's sit around trying to think of the most messed up ways of doing things to see just how many people will say,"hey, thanks! that worked out great" I know that is not the case, (at least I hope not,) but man you guys have a wealth of knowledge. It is like watching MacGyver in action.

[cdrums21]

As far as famous drummers who've played my kit, let's see....I was the provider of drums for an area venue that brought in acts of various nature. Oldies groups, Christian rock bands, famous singers, etc. Those drummers were great but there were so many and I don't recall their names. One guy I remember endorsed cymbal polish. One guy was a great drummer for the Manhattan transfer and the Captain and Tennille (I know, moldy oldies). I've also conversed with Eddie Bayers, Anton Fig, Owen Hale, Frankie Banali..to name a few and they gave me some great feedback and tips.
As far as minor thirds go, that is just a relationship between two notes. A minor third is three notes apart (from a B to a D is three notes...B to C is one note, C to C# is two notes and C# to D is the third note)), a major third is 4 notes apart, a perfect fourth is 5 notes apart, etc. Hope this helps.

[cdrums21]

Nutha Jason...Awesome site man! Thanks for the warm welcome. I love talking drums, especially tuning, and gear related stuff, so I hope I can be of some help and learn a few things as well. I'll have a few more posts on here about some other tips and we'll see if we can't generate some interest in the quest for a great drum sound! Talk tou you all soon...

[cdrums21]

This might sound stupid, but I've seen young drummers who are trying to learn to tune do this and it makes it harder to hear the pitches at each lug. What I mean is......if you are tapping each lug point about 2" in from the lug on the head to hear the pitch, tap it rapidly, so you get a sustained pitch. Don't just tap it once and try to distinguish the pitch. Also, some lug points are easier to hear than others. Some of the lug points seem to have other overtones there to mask the true pitch and make it difficult to hear. If that is happening to you, try putting on a pair of thin cloth gloves and tapping it again. The cloth from the gloves acts as a slight dampener of the strange overtones and helps bring out the pitch at the lug point. Using a softer instrument like a mallet works too, but nothing seems to beat tapping with a gloved finger.

[NUTHA JASON]

someone suggested a pencil with an eraser as well.

as for the wax i just take the candel and rib it around the sharp bearing edge 2 or thee times. under pressure the wax liquifies and so acts as a lubricant which aids in the heads movement over the bearing edge. its not 100% necessary but it helps.

j

[Guinness]

Do you think Vaseline would do the same trick as the wax? I have often heard of people rubbing vaseline on the inside of the shells.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Just to speak up for you Guinness. I've used Vaseline and it appears to seal my shells nicely.

[Bonzo]

ccdrums21, any thoughts on the relationship between snare and toms? You mention that you don't encounter alot of snare buzz by tuning your toms this way, but doesn't the snare have to be tuned a certain way also?

[NUTHA JASON]

Do you think Vaseline would do the same trick as the wax? I have often heard of people rubbing vaseline on the inside of the shells.

using vaseline this way is another matter entirely. this will aid the projection of the drum since projection is affected by the friction on the inside surface of an instrument - why digireedoos are traditionally dunked in water just before playing them. many drum companies varnish the inside of the shells for this reason. unvarnished and non-vaselined shells will be warmer but have less projection.

the wax is only for the sharp bearing edge where it contacts the heads as an aid for tuning. i think under the pressure of tuning and also because of the porosity at a microscopic level of the wood, vaseline will not function well for the tuning purpose...it will literally be crushed into the wood or out of the way and offer no lubrication. wax has a far higher viscosity.

j

[cdrums21]

Bonzo,
I'll tell you how I tune my snare and why I think it doesn't rattle much. Usually, snare buzz is caused by sympathetic vibrations from a drum that is closely tensioned to the pitch of the snare drum. With my snare, I'm not as scientific with the tuning. I like the snare to "pop" in a nice high register, kind of like the snare in the song "the finer things" by Stevie Winwood.... a good zeppelin snare, you know what I mean. So, I tune the bottom head real tight, almost as tight as it will go. Then, I tune the top head as tight as it will go and then start to detune it, keeping the pitches at each lug point as close as I can, until the sound opens up and I have a nice high pitched "pop" with good snare response from the tighter bottom head. Because the snare heads are pretty tight, especially the bottom, they're tuned way higher than any of the toms close by. The snare has it's own voice, the toms have theirs and there isn't any weird overtones happening to cause a buzz. That's what I've been doing for years and it works and sounds great. Give it a try if you'd like.

[Chip]

I think a guy from C and C custom drums suggested using Vasoline on the shells on the drumshed forum, bearing and inside, and some people were skeptical. Somebody tried it on an old snare that was a dog to tune, he said it tuned way better with the vasoline. I intend to try it. I'll post results. Thanks for the tuning techniques, too! You sound very educated.

[syaoran05]

if i tuned my tom lets say a C and i tuned the bottom head tighter up three notes like what you said so i think that's E.... when i hit the tom would it sound more of a C or more of an E?

[cdrums21]

It will probably sound like more of a C, but it will be difficult to determine the exact pitch when you strike it because of the two different pitches each head is tuned to. That's perfectly normal, and in fact, desired by most drummers. They don't want their drum to actually produce a distinct "note", just a good full sound with good, but not too much resonance. The tuning to notes principal helps you mostly to eliminate unwanted overtones and tune your drums in intervals so they sound good together. The top head is primarily responsible for the pitch, the bottom head for resonance and overall feel of the drum.

[Just Drums]

I find that a little tube of chapstick works great on my bearing edges. It's a lot less greasy that straight vaseline but a lot softer than candle wax.

[RobertLee]

Hey thnx. You guys have got some of the coolest tricks. Hell ya

[syaoran05]

It will probably sound like more of a C, but it will be difficult to determine the exact pitch when you strike it because of the two different pitches each head is tuned to. That's perfectly normal, and in fact, desired by most drummers. They don't want their drum to actually produce a distinct "note", just a good full sound with good, but not too much resonance. The tuning to notes principal helps you mostly to eliminate unwanted overtones and tune your drums in intervals so they sound good together. The top head is primarily responsible for the pitch, the bottom head for resonance and overall feel of the drum.

exactly what i needed thanks a LOT!

i was thinking of tuning drums to the notes of the open strings of a guitar because from guitar experience, open string notes sound "dead" as in they sound "blank" in any song of any key..

would it sound ok if i tuned for example like this [batter head]:

bass E
snare G
floor tom C
Low tom A
high tom [no reso head] D

i was thinking of tuning drums in such a way that you could play somewhat melodically to any song of any key such that the notes of the drums wont fight the notes of the other instruments, in this case tuning to "dead" notes"

[Royman27]

cdrums21, about tuning the drum with itself, how is that done. I mean, I've read about it, but I didn't really understand what they mean't by tuning the drum with itself?

[cdrums21]

Syaoran05,
I'm not so sure that I understand the concept of a "dead" note. I know what you mean when you say they sound "blank" in songs, but with drums, a note is a note, you just have to make sure that the notes are in relation to each other, as in thirds, fourths, etc. Also making sure the top and bottom heads are in a relationship to each other as well. Tuning kick and snare to notes is OK, but the toms are the ones that will "sing out" when you play them in a roll or together, so it's a little more important to get them happening. The way you say you would tune the toms, D, A and C, the relationship is a fourth between the high and low toms, then a difference of 9 notes between the low tom and floor tom. That's a big difference between the low tom and the floor tom and may not sound right or give you some weird overtones, you'll just have to see if it works. When tuning to notes it's more important to find a note that the drums sound good at. You don't want to tune a drum to a particular note if that note isn't in the drums optimum range. Start with the highest tom or floor tom and then try to tune the other drums in relation to it. For instance if you have a 10" to that sound good at a B, and you have a 12" tom as the next tom, it will probably sound good a third or fourth lower than the 10"tom. If the next drum is a 16" floor tom, you may want to go with a bigger interval, say a fifth, since there is a bigger difference in size between the two toms. See what I mean? Hope that answered your question.
Royman27,
A drum that is in tune with itself means that you should make sure that when tuning a drum head, at a point about 2" in from each lug point on the head, if you tap it there, the pitch should be the same at each lug point. That's getting the drum head in tune with itself. To get all the drums in tune with themselves, you need to find an interval that will allow each drum to speak well without causing unwanted frequencies. That is tuning in thirds, fourths, etc. like a chord so to speak. All the notes that are produced sound good together. That helps to reduce unwanted overtones, gives the head a longer life and helps it to seat properly on the bearing edge. I love these questions...keep 'em coming!!

[syaoran05]

Syaoran05,
I'm not so sure that I understand the concept of a "dead" note. I know what you mean when you say they sound "blank" in songs, but with drums, a note is a note, you just have to make sure that the notes are in relation to each other, as in thirds, fourths, etc. Also making sure the top and bottom heads are in a relationship to each other as well. Tuning kick and snare to notes is OK, but the toms are the ones that will "sing out" when you play them in a roll or together, so it's a little more important to get them happening. The way you say you would tune the toms, D, A and C, the relationship is a fourth between the high and low toms, then a difference of 9 notes between the low tom and floor tom. That's a big difference between the low tom and the floor tom and may not sound right or give you some weird overtones, you'll just have to see if it works. When tuning to notes it's more important to find a note that the drums sound good at. You don't want to tune a drum to a particular note if that note isn't in the drums optimum range. Start with the highest tom or floor tom and then try to tune the other drums in relation to it. For instance if you have a 10" to that sound good at a B, and you have a 12" tom as the next tom, it will probably sound good a third or fourth lower than the 10"tom. If the next drum is a 16" floor tom, you may want to go with a bigger interval, say a fifth, since there is a bigger difference in size between the two toms. See what I mean? Hope that answered your question.
Royman27,
A drum that is in tune with itself means that you should make sure that when tuning a drum head, at a point about 2" in from each lug point on the head, if you tap it there, the pitch should be the same at each lug point. That's getting the drum head in tune with itself. That helps to reduce unwanted overtones, gives the head a longer life and helps it to seat properly on the bearing edge. I love these questions...keep 'em coming!!


i think you got the concept of the "dead" note i was talking about, coz its about sounding "blank" on a song. anyway, thanks a lot about the answers, really helpful and i cant wait to apply what ive learned to my soon to exist el cheapo kit. i guess drums are a lot more different than guitar and bass, no? :P

[cdrums21]

Yeah, drums are a different animal, and there's more to them than just pounding away, if your serious about sound quality. Just so you're prepared, it may be tougher to tune and get a good, pleasing sound on an "el cheapo" kit. I don't want you to get frustrated, it's just like any other instrument. The better the quality, the better the sound.

[syaoran05]

Yeah, drums are a different animal, and there's more to them than just pounding away, if your serious about sound quality. Just so you're prepared, it may be tougher to tune and get a good, pleasing sound on an "el cheapo" kit. I don't want you to get frustrated, it's just like any other instrument. The better the quality, the better the sound.

its ok dude, i know my el cheapo instruments,and ive learned to live with it :P the "best" kit i saw my whole life [personally] was a pearl forum, dude, so go figure how much el cheapo kits are the "norm" here. then again i consider myself the king of compensation so pretty much anything that's not trash is still an instrument to me :P

btw, i just went to the tuning bible site http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/id5.html and it says there and i quote “Batter for feel, resonant for pitch”...

but you say its the other way around [batter for pitch, reso for overall sound...

so which is more correct?

[cdrums21]

Hmmmm.....from my experience, the batter hear gives you the pitch and will determine feel as well. Too tight and it will sound like a tabletop, too loose and it will sound mushy. The resonant head will determine how long the drum sustains and adds to the overall feel, in that if you have a drum that has both heads tuned really low, the drum feels sloppy. But, if you tune the bottom head up to give a firmer sound reflection surface on the bottom, the drum "feels" better, more like it should. That's what I meant about overall feel from the resonant head. You can change the pitch with the resonant head, but primarily, the top determines pitch. I don't want to contradict the "bible", but I think most would agree on that one. Try it for yourself and see what you think. Maybe I'll start a new thread on that subject.....

[k3ng]

Hmm.. that minor 3rd apart thing sounds interesting... I'm going to try it..

[deadbirdsoup]

very interesting indeed...will take this into practice some time!!

[syaoran05]

Hmmmm.....from my experience, the batter hear gives you the pitch and will determine feel as well. Too tight and it will sound like a tabletop, too loose and it will sound mushy. The resonant head will determine how long the drum sustains and adds to the overall feel, in that if you have a drum that has both heads tuned really low, the drum feels sloppy. But, if you tune the bottom head up to give a firmer sound reflection surface on the bottom, the drum "feels" better, more like it should. That's what I meant about overall feel from the resonant head. You can change the pitch with the resonant head, but primarily, the top determines pitch. I don't want to contradict the "bible", but I think most would agree on that one. Try it for yourself and see what you think. Maybe I'll start a new thread on that subject.....

dude youre so cool man... you reply fast and you really explain a lot and really well and detailed. i salute you.

one question, ive never put any head on a drum and tuned it... approximately how many "full turns" does it take from the point of the "lowest clean pitch" to the desired tension [not note, eg. "too low is sloppy and too high like a tabletop"] of the heads?

[cdrums21]

Thanks bro, just doing unto others as I would have them do unto me....As far as the "full turn" thing goes. It doesn't take too many full turns to come to the desired pitch. Depending on your preference, most toms sound good at a low mid to midrange tuning. It's a little different for every drum, but I would put the heads on the drum, tighten the lugs with your fingers if you can until there as tight as you can get them with your fingers. if you can't finger tighten them, just turn with a key until the lug starts to grab the head. Then crank it up 1/2 turn (if your looking at the drumkey on the lug from the top, 1/2 turn would be the when one end of the key goes from the 12 o'clock position to the 6 o'clock position). Keep doing that, checking each lug point on the head and tap with your finger as it gets tighter to even up the pitches. Get it real tight and let it sit for a few hours or overnight. Then, start going around the drum and loosen the lugs the same 1/2 turn until the sound opens up and you like the tone and feel, making sure the lugs points on the head are even. If I had to guess, I would say that once you got the lugs to start to grab the head, and sometimes you have to go around the head a time or two to adjust lugs that loosen as some get tighter, the approximate number of "full turns" you would end up with would be anywhere from 1 1/2 (that's 3 half turns) to 2 1/2, depending on the quality of drum, the size of the drum (floor toms are tuned a bit lower normally), and the kind of sound you're looking for. Try it and let me know how it works.

[NUTHA JASON]

yes.
hey CD have you ever had a look at that free website: the tuning bible?

j

ps: (personal message for clockwork orange - if you hate drummerworld so much why do you keep coming here...one of your members is reporting all your pathetic hate threads on you forum to me. i know that you are copying text from DW - including this very informative thread by a member who wasn't even here when you were banned (so why you hate a stranger is beyond me) - and then ripping them apart. very very sad.)

[cdrums21]

NJ,
Yes, I've seen the drum tuning bible and countless other articles, interviews, blurbs, emails and phone calls with famous drummers and friends, you name it on drum tuning. It is one of my passions as you can tell :o), and I try to gather up all the info that I have learned, apply it and pass it on if it's appropriate, if I'm asked or if I have a forum to share the information. That's why I posted the thread about the top head or resonant head being responsible for pitch. The tuning bible says some things that I'm not so sure I agree with. If you haven't read the thread, please do so and comment on what you think.

By the way, am I missing something with the clockwork orange dude? Is he dissin' us? What a shame if he is, this a really good source for sound and useful information. Oh well, I guess you can't please everybody....

[NUTHA JASON]

true, like i said somewhere else: musicians are people...and some people are jerks.

j

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

First off, thanks cdrums21 for taking the time to provide all of this useful information......

I don't think this has been mentioned and it may eliminate some frustration, it did for me. For whatever reason - hoops, heads?? - at times the tension rod directly opposite the area you want to tweak will have more of an effect than the rod directly where you need to make a change so if you are turning a paticular rod and not seeing much, if any, change in the tone unless you turn the rod more times than the "norm" try tapping while turning the rod directly opposite to see if that works. If this is happening you will save yourself a lot of time, not to mention frustration, by knowing what's going on..............

Also, there is usually a "Magic rod" that can effect the total overall sound of the head so by finding it you can bring everything in with a little tweaking on just that one rod when you get close. The trick is finding it..............

I can't tell you how much time I spent chasing my tail until I realized that these two factors may be involved.
Now, if I'm having trouble, I check to see if they are............

Jack

[cdrums21]

Thank you Jack, and yes my friend...you are right on the money with your comment. I couldn't agree more. Everything you said is fact. It all comes with experience and years of tuning. Obviously you have been at this awhile like me. Great post!!!

[Royman27]

Ummm, sorry to post this again. So how do you tune your drum with itself? I've only read that you tap the shell with no head on, and tune the head specifically to that tone, but I'm not really sure what it means still?

[lildrummerman03]

Sounds like a great idea man! I just ordered some new Remo Coated Ambassador Pinstripes for my kit. I have 12'', 13'' and 16''. I have tuning pitches on my metronome, but that sound gets annoying after about 20 seconds of leaving it on, so I think I am going to purchase a pitch pipe as well! :-) Thanks for the pointers.
Rock on,
Rob

[cdrums21]

Royman27,
See my post on this thread about 10 posts or so back. It explains your question about getting the drum in tune with itself in detail.

[syaoran05]

Ummm, sorry to post this again. So how do you tune your drum with itself? I've only read that you tap the shell with no head on, and tune the head specifically to that tone, but I'm not really sure what it means still?

cdrums21 i think he's talking about tuning the heads to the fundamental tone of the shell.. you mentioned tuning the head to itself [like what you said even out the sound on each lug]..

if you read the tuning bible it says there that you may hit the head and the initial attack will sound the note of the heads but the overall sound will be influenced by the fundamental note of the drum itself. meaning.. if lets say you tune your batter a C and your reso a G, and the note of the drum is A, the sound when it is hit will sound like a C with G overtones, then after a few moments, the overtones will sound more of an A already. tuning the drums to itself means tuning the heads the same note as the shell.

i think... tuning the drums to itself is more of a listening task than a tuning task. i think you do it like this..

tap the shell in a position such that it will resonate well so you could hear a nice sweet sound. try to figure out what the fundamental note is. knowing the fundamental note of the shell is really hard especially that knocking on wood and listening to its note isnt that easy. congratulations if you figured it out.

then simply tune both your heads to the note of the shell. so let's say your shell is a B, tune both your heads B, and the result will be a drum that just sings B as long as it vibrates.

[cdrums21]

If that is the case and he wants to know how to tune the drum to the shells' fundamental note, then I guess my tuning the head to itself advice doesn't really answer his question. Tuning the heads to the fundamental note of the shell is the DW concept of timbre matching the drums within a kit. You are right when you say it's difficult to hear. To get the clearest note, you pretty much have to strip the shell of all heads and hardware and strike the shell with the butt of the palm of your hand or a rubber mallet so as not to damage the shell. If you're lucky enough to hear the note, you can tune to that note, but sometimes it's decieving. I tried that with a 16" floor tom that I had, stripped 'er down naked and struck it with a rubber mallet. The note I heard was pretty clear and it seemed to be just above an A. When I tuned both heads on the drum to that note, the pitch was way to high and din't sound like a floor tom at all, boingy and ringy. Tuning the bottom head in different ways didn't help either. I ended up tuning it the way I currently tune and it sounded monstrous with great resonance and tone, but not too much...go figure.
I know of some DW guys who didn't dig the tuning of the drum to the note stamped inside the shell, I wonder if many other DW owners experienced that scenario.....maybe we'll get some replies.

[Paradiddle my snizzle]

If the tom was about an A why didnt you try to tune the heads to C# and E?

[cdrums21]

I actually did kind of do that when I got the drum to sound good and they were very close to those two notes, I think it was approximately a C on top and an E on the bottom, but at the time I didn't realize the relationship those notes had to an A. I kind of stumbled on to it. But it makes sense why it sounded good.

[DoubleBassUrFace]

Well, since all you guys have been asking questions.
i figure i should too.
Ive been haveing trouble tuning my 10x8 tom. right.
and, i cant have my reso head too
loose. or else it has a nasty ass overtone. its like, derrrrrrrrew. haha.
idk.
any advice?

[cdrums21]

Is your drum a maple shell? Birch? That may make a difference in what the relative tension between the two heads will be. What I would do is to tune the top head up tighter than you would play it and let it sit for a while, making sure that when you tap at each lug point on the head, they're the same pitch. Then, after a few hours, start to detune the head going around the drum until it starts to open up, making sure the pitch at each lug is the same. When it starts to sound good, try to find out what note it is when you tap the head in front of the lugs. I would guess that it will probably be close to a B. If that's the case, and your bottom head is looser as you say, you probably will get weird overtones and snare buzz. If the top head is a B, first try tuning the bottom head to a B as well. If it still has too much sustain and causing problems, tune the bottom head up a little higher to a D, That's a minor third. That should take care of the overtones and buzz. If the drum doesn't sound and feel right at that pitch, find where the top head does sound and feel good, try to hear the note at each lug and tune the bottom head up 3 notes higher. You can do it by ear too, but tuning to notes is a bit more precise. Try it and post your results if you'd be so kind.

[DoubleBassUrFace]

oh, just to say.
its a pdp kit, f-series.
birch shells.

[cdrums21]

OK, cool. Then you may have better luck with the heads being tuned to the same pitch. Sometimes with birch shells, they need som extra tone and resonance to sound their best. Try it and see. You can always tweak up the bottom head to fine tune the sound. I'm assuming you have single ply resonant heads on the bottom and decent heads on top, right?

[DoubleBassUrFace]

stock reso head.
and evans genera g2 coated batter

[cdrums21]

That should work, give it a try on your 10" tom and see what you come up with. If it happens that you get it sounding really good and like it, and you want your other toms to sound sililar and decend in specific intervals, let me know.

[syaoran05]

hey nutha i think this thread should be a sticky :D

[drumer3914]

How often should the res heads be changed?

[TomasHakkesBrain]

Go low. My advice would be to just tune each drum to its natural "sweet spot" - bring the tension up until you clear wrinkling and start to get a nice solid tone. If you do that with both the 14" and 16" toms you should get a nice interval between them, while still giving you "floor tom" tone on each of them. Two floors is nice, you can do great Bonham triplet type fills.

Bonzo tuned high as hell..because he had bigger drums and used emperors. There is a tuning cd you can buy-i just try to tune the drums into themselves-so they sound good in pairs

[Wayne]

My Premier Artist Maple kit want a bit of advice on Tuning.
Now i like the Deep tone sounds..Low down..

Iv got Remo Pinstriped Skins and have a 10 12 and 14inch Tom

Now when behind the kit the toms dont sound to bad.. could be better if im honest. but when listen from the other side they sound dead and crap.

Is it worth taken the std bottom heads off and putting REMO on there?
Its problem a tuning problem i would of thought.


Thanks

[sly1965]

Crank it up dude, small diameter like 10 and 12 sound good when the heads are tuned pretty hight. Pinestripe are thick and can sound dead easily if not tight enought. try it and i'm pretty sure you will have a good result.

[dunkerton12]

I would have to disagree with the previous post (sorry :(

You need new resos, clear ambassador or diplomat, and you should tune the resos tighter than the batter side. I use ebony pinstripes, and my batter heads are not tuned tightly but they project and sound great.

I will agree that the smaller toms should sound higher, but you won't need to crank the head to get that sound. Just make sure your resos are tighter than your batters, and make sure you tune properly. Sometimes tuning is the underlying problem.

[Wayne]

Thanks for the replys.

Yesterday i went and got some clear ambassador and its done the trick.
I normally have tape on the toms to dampen then but it sounds like i dont need it now..

[Joe Morris]

You don't want to put tape on your drums man, let them sing with a nice tone. People put to much emphasis on ways to tune. I get asked that question all the time. How do you tune your drums? I tune them according to the drum, most drums especially toms you will find have a place they get to tension wise that makes them sound their best. Each drum and lug is different. That stuff about having all your lugs the same tension is just a myth to me. Check out my drum solo video on my web site and you will see what I mean. There are 4 videos pick the drum solo and crank up your speakers. Check out the tom sound. And remember is use 8 10 14 16. Let me know what you think. Your drums should have balls, but have tone too.

Joe
Just my 2 cents

[Wile E. Coyote]

That stuff about having all your lugs the same tension is just a myth to me.
I don't think it's a matter of having the same tension (like checking with that weird clock and that stuff). But it's definitely a matter of getting the same overtones in every lug, so that you get a clean and clear fundamental.

[Wayne]

Joe those Drums sound soooo good.

Thats Exaclty how i want my Toms to sound. That sound it spot on for what i want...

I dont have any tape on the drums now, so ill see how they sound next time.

I use a 10 12 and 14 so im going to play around with it and try and get it as close to that sound as possilbe.. thats the sounds iv had in my head but getting it is another thing.

Thanks for the reply.

Wayne

[DogBreath]

You might want to check out the Tom Tuning Thread (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6029).

[Drummer Karl]

I already said such a thing I remember...

look in what tension your toms are tuned, maybe they are too low tuned? Look that you get a nice sounding sound out of it, not something like a "brrr" or a "booooiiiing", also, the thing with the resonant head:
It happens very often when I sit behind a kit...I love the tom sound, but if you sit BEHIND this kit, you will mostly hear the batter heads!
then I stood in front of it and the toms sounded so horrible! so, the audience IN FRONT of your kit will mostly hear the resonant heads!
so...take care how your reso heads are tuned, I get the nicest tone if I tune my drums 2-2.5 tones higher than my batter head. experiment a bit with it...

Karl

[sly1965]

I

look in what tension your toms are tuned, maybe they are too low tuned?

Karl

Thats what i was figuring, of course reso heads have to be tuned right too. I saw to often drummer who want a big fat sound with batter heads to loose. Toms have to sing so it means a certain tightness in the heads.The way i tune mine, i start with batter side to reach the best sounding i can and finish with the resos to fine tune the pitch.Like Mr Morris, i don't care if the screws are not at the same tensions.

[Wayne]

Iv always tuned each lug to the sound iv tried to get not so much to the tensions.

I would of thought if you done the exact number of turns on each lug the sound could still be off?

Tho i use to have tape on the skins, which i now know was killing the sound. the Toms never had a Ringing Note a such.

Iv now taken all the tape off and will try it now.i can hear it sounding better tho when i tuned them.Have to see what they sound like on a gig now.

Wayne

[maxam]

Hey everyone,

Been looking at the threads and I have found a great deal of info very useful. I have a question in regards to drum tuning. I have a Gretsch kit with 14", 16" and 18" toms and I wanted to ask how I should tune the heads so that I get that traditional be-oooom sound (I know, very technical). I think it is called "Drum Lisse".

Right now the heads are Evans G1 Coated on the batter side and the same heads, only clear on the resonant side. I am switching to Remo Emperor coated heads for the batter side and Remo Ambassador coated heads on the resonant side for a warmer sound.

Any help in regards to tuning for that great sound would be fantastic.

Thanks,
Maxam

[larlev]

I'm barb-quing....so I have to be brief....

What I do is tune each head to it's lowest tone/note.....then bring the reso up ever so slightly...1/8 turns max. until you get the desired tone and pitch you want....

You will experience pretty bad pitch-bend at first, but with minute adjustments...you will get what you are after...

It always works for me......

[maxam]

Thanks for your help, I will give it a try.

Maxam

[Drummer Karl]

I would agree here. Isn`t it also called "Doppler effect"?
I sometimes also have this sound you want...and I would also tune the batter head on a very low pitch and the reso a bit higher...

Karl

[nitro]

I thought it should be the other way round. Tune both to the same note to get a standard tom sound which sustains the same note or tune the resonant head a third lower to get a beeeeooooooom rock sound?

[n2xlr8n]

I own a set of Mapex Saturn Studio.....I was wondering what you folks have found to be your ideal head and tuning combination.

Right now, I have EC2s on the batter side, and G1s on the resonant side. The batters are tuned 1/2 turn past wrinkled, and the resonant the same. This produces a killer low end-punchy drum that still manages to resonate...though you'd better hit them hard.
Maybe I need to tighten up the resonant head a little.


I recently changed to Superkick II and Regulator on the BD...I'll never use anything else there, but I'm thinking of trying something different on the toms.

Thanks for the input!

S.

[fusssion]

I would think that "just past a wrinkle" on both would get too mushy.....I think you'd find a better overall response if you tightened the reso.....

[nickg]

I would think that "just past a wrinkle" on both would get too mushy.....I think you'd find a better overall response if you tightened the reso.....

exactly..that's why they are called "resonant" heads. too loose of tuning pretty much defeats the purpose of the head "resonating".

i usually go with the "tune the bottom for tone, tune the top for tension" theory, give or take a little on both ends. just what works for me.

not to mention that tuning heads too loose and not letting the shells "sing" results in the drums getting lost in the mix sometimes because you get a big kit of "flapping heads" instead of "tonal" differences between the drums.

[n2xlr8n]

exactly..that's why they are called "resonant" heads. too loose of tuning pretty much defeats the purpose of the head "resonating".

i usually go with the "tune the bottom for tone, tune the top for tension" theory, give or take a little on both ends. just what works for me.

not to mention that tuning heads too loose and not letting the shells "sing" results in the drums getting lost in the mix sometimes because you get a big kit of "flapping heads" instead of "tonal" differences between the drums.



I'm happy with the way my Saturns are tuned. If I wanted a "singing" or really bright drum sound, I'd put G1s on the batter sides, tighten them up a bit and let 'em fly. I'm not a heavy handed player, so I'm thinking the sound I'm getting has more to do with a) The Maple/Walnut shell construction, and b) The EC2 heads.

I guess it's more of a "how do you prefer your Saturns tuned" than a "please critique my tuning methods" type of thread.

The Saturns are easy to tune in many respects, but if you want to research the entire spectrum of frequencies, it takes a fair amount of tinkering.

Thanks for the input, anyway.

S.

[nickg]

I'm happy with the way my Saturns are tuned. If I wanted a "singing" or really bright drum sound, I'd put G1s on the batter sides, tighten them up a bit and let 'em fly. I'm not a heavy handed player, so I'm thinking the sound I'm getting has more to do with a) The Maple/Walnut shell construction, and b) The EC2 heads.

I guess it's more of a "how do you prefer your Saturns tuned" than a "please critique my tuning methods" type of thread.

The Saturns are easy to tune in many respects, but if you want to research the entire spectrum of frequencies, it takes a fair amount of tinkering.

Thanks for the input, anyway.

S.

definitely the walnut plies make a difference in the "boom" factor of the Saturns. i think that's why some of the metal drummers like the series.

[aceman]

I'm somewhat confused here. You asked about tuning methods for your Saturns then say that you like how your saturns are tuned. I'm not sure of the question but I'll try. I don't have a Saturn kit but It only took me about 15 min. to realize that I hated the EC2 heads. Some people love them but they killed the sound of my drums and your right, you have to really lay into them to get any projection at all. I went back to G2 coated batters and threw the EC2's in the trash. My Yamaha's are tuned to a med. low tuning simply because thats where they sound there best with the heads I am currently using. Hope this helps but I'm still unsure of your question.

[n2xlr8n]

I'm somewhat confused here. You asked about tuning methods for your Saturns then say that you like how your saturns are tuned. I'm not sure of the question but I'll try. I don't have a Saturn kit but It only took me about 15 min. to realize that I hated the EC2 heads. Some people love them but they killed the sound of my drums and your right, you have to really lay into them to get any projection at all. I went back to G2 coated batters and threw the EC2's in the trash. My Yamaha's are tuned to a med. low tuning simply because thats where they sound there best with the heads I am currently using. Hope this helps but I'm still unsure of your question.

Thanks for your response.

Evidently, I need to be more articulate, LOL.

Method, by definition means technique or systematic procedure. I never asked for a tuning "method". Style, on the other hand, means a prevailing mode or fashion. That's what I specifcally asked for. Often words like "precision" and "accuracy" are misunderstood as well, LOL.

I was asking about folks' preferred brand/type of head used on the Saturns, and the tension placed on them, not "how" to tune them. Make sense? I like the way they sound, but I have to wail the beejezus out of them to make them really sound like I want....I'm just not that heavy-handed.

Everyone's answer helped.....okay, nickg's definition of resonance was a bit much, but I DID ask a question open to interpretation.. ; )

For what it's worth, I did tighten up the resonant G1 heads on my toms (after completely cleaning the bearing surfaces, the heads, hoops, and retuning)....the EC2s still are not my cup of tea. Believe it or not, I really thought initially the stock Remo heads sounded better with the Aquarian rings on them. I'm going to try a set of Super-2s as soon as I can get my hands on them.

Thanks everyone!

S.

[nickg]

Everyone's answer helped.....okay, nickg's definition of resonance was a bit much, but I DID ask a question open to interpretation.. ; )

see...now my definition of resonance wasn't the answer you were looking for but yet you say you "have to wail the beejezus out of them to make them really sound like I want".

too loose of tuning does have a lot to do with it because you're fighting to bring out the tone of the drum instead of letting the head and the shell do the work for you.

i hope you understand my point a little better now.

[aceman]

I experienced the same probs. with the EC2's, I had to tune them sooooo low to get a good tone out of them and then it was like hitting a pillow. The G2's sing out just by looking at them compared to the EC2's

[voldak]

Should it be extremely hard to get my Tama Rockstar's in tune? I've been using the Drum Tuning Bible technique for tuning the drums and it seriously took me about 2 hours to get 1 tom sounding decent. The size of my toms are 12", 13", 14", 16", then a 22" bass drum. On all of those drums I use Evans Hydraulic for batter and G1s for the resonant head. Also, while i'm tuning them it seems like the lugs are all sorts of uneven and it is extremely, extremely hard (sometimes impossible) to get an even tone out of one of the heads. I usually just give up and cry and my drums still sound like crap.

I'm not sure if it's just a Tama Rockstar thing, or if it is me. Both seem like logical choices to me :). My snare is a DW collector's brass snare, and I've had no problem making that puppy sound beautiful

Thanks in advance

[HardcoreLogo]

I have two sets of Tama's, all I do is get the bottom where I like the "ring" to be, and bring the top a little past wrinkle and tweak it from there, seems to work for that fat rock sound...........

[voldak]

What kind of heads do you use to get the good sound? Also, do you do the bass the same way?

[rritter]

Get a Drumdial and loose the hydraulics. Just kidding on the heads, I just like to hear my drums sing not choke. As for the drumdial they are quite good in getting your heads tuned and from there you can tweak the heads by ear.

[mind_drummer]

My first advice would be "get rid of those hydraulic heads" and get something like REMO ambassador or Emperor, EVANS G1 or G2 or AQUARIAN Classic clear / satin finish texture coated or Response II then you'll be able to get and achieve the sound you're after.

Drum are made to sing so let them be what they are...

Try your 14" hydraulic head on your DW snare for fun and hear if you like the sound ;-)

Tuning help here -> http://www.videodrumlessons.com/t1.htm

[voldak]

I don't really want a lot of "ring" to my drums. I guess I could always use some Moongel if needed.

Thanks for all of the advice so far. As of the last few days, I've been putting a lot of thought into the hydraulics and how they might be the cause of my problems.

[voldak]

bring the top a little past wrinkle and tweak it from there

When you do this, do you make sure all of the lugs are right about the same pitch?

[nate]

When you do this, do you make sure all of the lugs are right about the same pitch?

i tune the same way - and yeah you gotta make sure the lugs are about the same pitch...

i the same set as you. you can hear them recorded on my myspace. i think they sound great. evans ec2's and an emad on the bass - which i really like.

i don't find them very hard at all to tune. I used to but i got this (http://www.vintagedrum.com/item/Bob-Gatzen-Drum-Tuning-Sound-and-Design-Simplified-Drum-DVD-DY-DD321) and it helped me no end.....


hope this helps

[voldak]

I've watched tons of videos on tuning, I've got the concept down quite a bit. I do need to work on being able to tell which pitch is higher and which is lower to help me get all the lugs right at about the same pitch. I guess i'm partially tone deaf. I'm also wondering if the Hydraulic heads are making it hard for me to get all of the rods tightened to about the same pitch....who knows.

[mind_drummer]

I don't really want a lot of "ring" to my drums. I guess I could always use some Moongel if needed.

Thanks for all of the advice so far. As of the last few days, I've been putting a lot of thought into the hydraulics and how they might be the cause of my problems.

There's a whole lot of difference between "ring" and "resonance"...

And yeah, hydraulics may sure be the source of your problems. Dont forget that phil. mahogany is a soft wood, softer than birch and maple and you need a thinner or lighter head to make your toms resonate at their shell resonance point.

[voldak]

ahh...awesome bit of information there man. I didn't really know too much of the type of wood used in the Rockstars until very recently. When I get some money saved up, I'll definitely get some thinner heads, hopefully that would help out my sound.


As they sound right now...their is a lot 'resonance' with the one drum I have tuned to sounding decent.

[rritter]

Rockstars are Basswood not Mahogany. I had a Rockstar kit some years ago and they tuned well with the included pinstripes.

[voldak]

Aren't they a mixture of Basswood and Mahogany?

[mind_drummer]

Aren't they a mixture of Basswood and Mahogany?

It was always one inner ply of basswood (TAMA used to call it "basswood interior"), some had the zola-coat (80s) and after y 2000 some were all phil. mahogany.

[Pete Stoltman]

It's been a lot of years since I used the Evans Hydraulic heads and when I did that really flat dead sound was kind of popular. Anyhow here's my thought on what you may be experiencing. If I remember right the Hydraulic head as a layer of some kind of oil between the two plies. That stuff can move around and I'm thinking that as you tune the drum and strike the head the oil is floating around (maybe to the other side) and messing with your ability to get the same pitch from lug to lug. If I remember right I used to tune those as the others have said by getting the resonant head where I wanted it and then just barely getting the wrinkles out of the hydraulic batters. Then for fine tuning I just barely tapped the head with my finger rather than striking it with a stick. You really shouldn't expect to get much tone out of those heads. Hope that helps some.

[voldak]

Yea, it helps a lot. Thanks to everyone for all of the help. I'm definitely going to look into some new heads soon, so I can actually get some tone going on my kit :)

I've had these heads for a long time. Back in the day I used to use all triggers for my drums and the dead sound was fine. But, I really don't like it anymore.

Thanks Everybody!

[n2xlr8n]

see...now my definition of resonance wasn't the answer you were looking for but yet you say you "have to wail the beejezus out of them to make them really sound like I want".

too loose of tuning does have a lot to do with it because you're fighting to bring out the tone of the drum instead of letting the head and the shell do the work for you.

i hope you understand my point a little better now.

LOL, just playing around. I'm an RF engineer, so I got a kick out of that.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm a 40 yo drummer that understands that despite drumming for 31 years, I've a lot to learn from most everyone. I appreciate your advice. I just really think the issue is the heads I'm using rather than my tuning method.

The Super-2s / Classic clears will be in this week. I think I'll like them better, judging by what my peers are saying about them.

SJ

[n2xlr8n]

I experienced the same probs. with the EC2's, I had to tune them sooooo low to get a good tone out of them and then it was like hitting a pillow. The G2's sing out just by looking at them compared to the EC2's


Yes, I had come to that same conclusion.

I gave the EC2's away this weekend.

Not my kind of head.

Thanks for the input; I appreciate it.

SJ

[YamahaDrummerAus]

Hey guys,

My high and mid toms dont seem to stay in tune for very long. I use Aquarian Response II heads.

What could be wrong here?

Thanks Tom

[osamasgoat5467]

What type of drums do you have? Are you tensioning the heads really loose?

[morristyson]

If you don't tune too loosely (which is usually the problem), then you might want to invest in some locking rods or lug locks.

[maddrummr]

If you don't tune too loosely (which is usually the problem), then you might want to invest in some locking rods or lug locks.

You beat me 2 it

i was gonna say the exact same thing.

[TheSteve]

Have you tried leaving your heads alone for 24 hours to settle into the drums?

[YamahaDrummerAus]

I have Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage Toms.

I get the right sound I want when I tune loosely, nice and resonant, not a choked sound. How can I fix that so I can tune tighter with the same sound, reso head?

I will try setting the heads next time. Didnt know you had to do that. Thanks so far guys!

[pcmckay]

Letting the heads sit for awhile will help definately. I used to think that I had to tune the heads really lose to get resonance also. But I have learned tuning the reso heads considerably higher then the batter heads gives me lots of resonance. I tune the batter side about medium tension and tune the bottom heads way up, my drums are very boomy. This is the technique that Bonzo used.

[loki83jcg]

I think I saw this somewhere... dont remember where though... that you can quicken the head's settling onto the rim by circling around the edge, where the glue is, with a hair drier.

The thought behind this is that the heat will dry glue and stop the stretching.

I know it sounds nuts... but I think it works.

this is the best forum out there...

[kasper92]

hi, iv just bought new skins for my toms but im having trouble tuning them up nice.
iv put coated g2's on the batters and clear ambassadors on the reso's.

my rack tom doesnt sound too bad but it quite dead, as iv someones got there finger on the reso. should i loosen or tighten the reso? how tight or loose? (12x10)

my floor sounds horrid. i dont realy no how to explain it. it sort of grumbles and groans? lol. how tight or loose should be batter and reso be? (16x16)

thanks heaps.

[somedrummer]

You know... I'm not at all sure about this... but I think Evans might be having issues with their Coated G2s lately. The last few I've bought have been pretty bad, and I've heard of a few other people on here having troubles. Maybe I'll shoot them a email, see what's up.

Edit: Ok, just sent them an email. We'll see what's happening.

As for the tuning, just keep fiddling with it, or check out the link to the DTB in my sig if nothing else works.

[thecraponline]

kasper92, it would be helpful if you could mention how tight you currently have the batter/resonant heads on your toms in relation to each other, to help pinpoint the problem.

Anyway, a good place to start tuning your toms is to make sure that all the tension rods are tensioned evenly. Mute one of the heads against a carpet. With the other head, tap about 1" away from each tension rod, listening closely for the pitch; adjust the tension rods until they are all in tune with each other. Then repeat the process on the other head. This might solve your rack tom's deadness and floor tom's funny noises.

For your rack tom specifically, my guess is that tightening the resonant head has a better chance of "livening" up the sound, than loosening it does.

Good luck with your toms!

[kasper92]

iv fixed the rack tom but the floor tom still doesnt sound good. the batter is slightly loose because im trying to get a warm tone and the resonant's quiet loose to stop ringing

[2d-chris]

It's damn tricky to get a decent sound from large toms, i recently got some pinstripes and im still finding the sweet spot in terms of how best to tune them for the sound i like.

Im not sure if this is the case but i always seem to find when first using a new head it tends to 'strech' and slightly drop out of tune till they settle in. Like the other guy said get one head sounding good before you work on the other, i start by taking both heads off and doing the reso head first, letting it stand for a few mins and playing it again making any adjustments it might need, only then i think about putting on the batter.

[kasper92]

Im not sure if this is the case but i always seem to find when first using a new head it tends to 'strech' and slightly drop out of tune till they settle in. Like the other guy said get one head sounding good before you work on the other, i start by taking both heads off and doing the reso head first, letting it stand for a few mins and playing it again making any adjustments it might need, only then i think about putting on the batter.[/QUOTE]

how tight should the reso be in this case? and what should it sound like? its a clear ambassador btw

[Skitch]

You know... I'm not at all sure about this... but I think Evans might be having issues with their Coated G2s lately. The last few I've bought have been pretty bad, and I've heard of a few other people on here having troubles. Maybe I'll shoot them a email, see what's up.

Edit: Ok, just sent them an email. We'll see what's happening.

As for the tuning, just keep fiddling with it, or check out the link to the DTB in my sig if nothing else works.


It sure seems like EVERYONE is having quality control issues these days!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[Miggle]

tighten the reso head. I have my reso heads pretty tight, always. gives a nice low sound that bounces back quick.

Anyway, I sort of have that same prob with my G2 clear. The stock heads are more resonant and sounds rounder to me.

[somedrummer]

It sure seems like EVERYONE is having quality control issues these days!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

Yeah, and maybe customer service issues too... I still haven't heard back from them.

[DrummerAz]

i have a really crappy performnce percussion kit with self named skins............

they sound really bad and ive tried everything, from drum silencers to trea towels, to tapeing a piece of cloth to the side of the drum..........but i cant get the sound i want

and i never really could tune a kit so.........

[Elvis]

My Premier Artist Maple kit want a bit of advice on Tuning.
Now i like the Deep tone sounds..Low down..

Iv got Remo Pinstriped Skins and have a 10 12 and 14inch Tom

Now when behind the kit the toms dont sound to bad.. could be better if im honest. but when listen from the other side they sound dead and crap.

Is it worth taken the std bottom heads off and putting REMO on there?
Its problem a tuning problem i would of thought.


Thanks

I used to sell Premier.
I know that the heads your drums came with actually need to get played on a little before they start sounding decent.
However, you could circumvent that and just use aftermarket thin weight heads on the resonant side.
G1 resonant, Diplomat, Attack Thin Skyn, Weathermaster Medium...all of these will allow your drums to sound more resonant, darker and larger.
Don't crank 'em too hard, either.
1-1.5 turns should be sufficient.
...oh, and don't forget to crack 'em when you install them.
Does wonders for the sound of a drum.

Elvis

[Wavelength]

http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/index.html

Read it. Then start tuning. Then read it again. And keep on tunin'... Remember, practice makes perfect.

[Wayne]

I use a Tuning Key,

I did think about changing to a Pearl Masters kit to help get the deep Tom sound i want.

I currently use 10x9 12x10 and 14x14 toms.

I tried it the other day but when i now hit the drum the Pitch goes up and they instanly down again, its not the skin stretchin, it keeps doing this now then i hit the toms.

[ChristZero]

Hey folks!
Got a new set of heads, Evans G2 clear. I´ve always been searching for the right heads, never bought a special one twice. Now I thought let´s give it a try with Evans as I have an Evans genera on my snare an it´s doing just fine.
The problem is, as with every single head I´ve ever played, the 12" tom doesn´t sound good.
10" is always easy, nice tone and enough attack, 14" has always nice bottom end. Now my set is a Mapex ProM SE maple set. And I think it can´t be the quality of the set because the two other toms and the bass drum especially sound killer after two minutes of tuning.

Anyone who also got trouble with those 12"? How do you tune them?

[bighaibigdrums]

Tune your 12" first and then tune the other drums around it. Always tune the hardest drum first.

[ChristZero]

Thx. Going to try that.
But the main prob is that i can´t get the right sound of the 12".
Well, we´ll see.

[bighaibigdrums]

Your probably trying to tune it to the other drums. Ignore the other drums, pretend the only drum you have is the 12"

[hungrypo]

check the bearing edge. i have a 12" tom that wont tune up, and after a couple years of fiddling with it i realized the bearing edge had a series of dents on one side. if the bearing edge isn't flawless, its gonna be impossible to tune the tom.

[IDDrummer]

The above advice is sound. You might also consider that some drums don't seem to "like" certain heads. An example - normally my 12" drum is the easiest of drums to tune, but not long ago I got the Evans EC2 coated heads to try out. It is very difficult with these heads to get the 12" to fit with the other drums when the pitch is where I want it. I've had to make very small adjustments in the tuning process to get the thing to work - I ended up detuning one lug to get the resonance and pitch where I wanted them, and I've never done that before! I can't really explain exactly what to do to make your drum sound better, but try tiny changes in tuning. Maybe when you change heads next time, you might try something different. I'm convinced there is no "best" drumhead for every drum...

[wooltonboy]

I had the same issue with my 10x12 tom.
Because my 10" is shallower at 8x10, I found that I had to have the reso head on the 12" at a tighter tension than that on the 10".
I think you'll find that the problem probably lies with the reso head. The G2 was sounding really hollow and "flappy" on the 12" until i tightened the reso up a bit.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Phil

[ChristZero]

Thx for the answers.
Well, the reso head really is a big part of the problem. I´ve been tuning around the sweet spot. The sound I would like just isn´t possible. Too low to get a clear sound, it indeed sounds floppy.
But I´d rather accept that than tune up too high.

[konaboy]

Hey guys,

We have a Pearl Export Series we use at church that was donated. I went out last night and got new heads for it which it desperately needed as I couldn't tell you how old the ones on there now are (I'm guessing the better part of 8 or 9 years YIKES)

Anyway what was on there were the CS black dots and I picked up clear G2's after the experiences I've had with them on my Yamaha's. I'm having a heck of a time getting the floor tom to sound right. I must have spent an hour to an hour and a half last night working the tuning on both sides. I seated the head, backed off the tension and made sure the tone was the same at each lug while the opposite side head was on carpet to deaden it. I tuned up, down and just can't seem to find the range. What kind of tuning have you guys used on yours? It's a 16" floor tom. I got the 16" on my yamaha's growling after 15 minutes, I'm just not sure what I'm missing or is this common with this series from Pearl?

I've never had this hard a time getting a drum to sound good.

[harryconway]

Several things could be at play here. I'm a Remo guy myself, but the G2 is similiar to the Emperor head, as a standard 2 ply head. Might work, might not. Sounds like the later in your case. Most cats put Pinstripes on Pearl Export kits because that's about the extent of that drums versatility. Depending on what Yamaha series you're used to tuning, might be like goin' from a Porsche to a VW. You'll get that VW to run, but it ain't gonna sing like a Porsche. And then you did say "donated" right? Could be those drums were "ridin hard and put away wet". Might check bearing edges for troubles.

[bighaibigdrums]

You might find that MoonGel is going to be your friend.

[konaboy]

I'm still messing with it, it almost seems to be the reso head that won't tune properly, lots of overtone and some weird ones at that. I think I'm going to take it apart again, both heads off and start over. (insert frustrated smiley here!)

And Harry you're right about the Porsche/VW I've got a 1980's kit that yamaha made prior to the RC series, tuning them is pretty easy for the most part with the exception of the 12" tom, it's a little finicky.

On another note I tried an Evans Emad on the bass of the pearl set and I'm pretty impressed. I'm used to using a Superkick1 on my yamaha's and the guy at Guitar Center recommended trying the Emad instead and I tell you the Emad brought this pearl bass a new life!

I called GC today about the tuning problem and they were really cool about it and said if I wanted I could bring it in and they'd have a look. Never had to have someone help me tune a drum before so it's a little shot to the old pride. :-( I'm beginning to wonder if this floor tom isn't going to be wearing an EC2 by the time it's over??

[konaboy]

After taking both heads off and starting from scratch I think the problem is the reso, think it's bad. Just finger tight it's giving the really weird overtones that won't stop. Good possibility it's that head, it's a reso that came off of one of my drums when I switched them in the fall, I thought it had some life left but evidently not. So off to GC in the morning to pick up a new G1, hopefully that cures the problem (fingers crossed.)

[Ironcobra]

there are so many different possible combinations of tuning, top skin tight, bottom middle, kinda tight, top lose, middle tight

whenever i sit down to tune my drums, i just cant seem to find the RIGHT one, it overwhelms me and i end up just walking away......so many different heads to choose from soo many different combonations, it is really all worth it????

post what combinations you have and what it sounds like.....low....medium heavy metal sound? i really need some ideas cuz ive just about had it

[Deathmetalconga]

On all my toms and bass, I have moderate tuning on the batter heads (all Fiberskyn FA) and loose tuning on the resonant heads (all coated Ambassadors). That gives a bit of upward bend to the pitch just a fraction of a second after the fundamental tone.

I play world fusion music and I like a big, deep, thunderous sound.

[tooldrums1000]

I have my bottom sanre really tight and top snare pretty tight. I love its sound.

[pcmckay]

I use Remo Coated Emperors on the batter side and Remo Coated Ambassadors on the bottom side. All of the reso heads are tuned way up, even the bass drum. About medium tension on the batter side. My drums have a big boomy sound. Also keep in mind that I'm using oversized drums. I have 10"x14" tom, 16"x16" FT, 16"x18"FT and a 14"x26"BD. I use the same tuning method on my 6.5"x14" snare.

[thecraponline]

If you are getting frustrated with tuning, and are looking for a low, metal or rock type of sound, just buy pre-muffled heads like Remo Pinstripes or Evans EC2s (or whatever the Aquarian equivalent is called), and tune them nice and low. Pre-muffled heads aren't very sensitive to tuning, and will generally sound okay even if you aren't the best tuner. This won't teach you how to tune well, but it will probably give you the sound you are looking for.

As for how you specifically tune the heads, tuning the batter low and the resonant just a few pitches higher will give you a nice sound with plenty of attack and not too much sustain, for the sound you want.

[larlev]

This site is good.....a little easier to understand

http://www.tunadrum.com/

[DrummerAz]

I use Remo Coated Emperors on the batter side and Remo Coated Ambassadors on the bottom side. All of the reso heads are tuned way up, even the bass drum. About medium tension on the batter side. My drums have a big boomy sound. Also keep in mind that I'm using oversized drums. I have 10"x14" tom, 16"x16" FT, 16"x18"FT and a 14"x26"BD. I use the same tuning method on my 6.5"x14" snare.

hahaa, youve just copied john bonham mate

[cdrums21]

In my experience, in order to get a nice full, round sound where the toms jump right out at you and are well defined in the mix, I tune my batter heads to where the tom sounds best, usually a medium tension, and the bottom heads a little higher. I have a very specific method of tuning that works very well, tuning in intervals and such, but in general, the bottom head a bit tighter will shorten the sustain to just the right amount, especially on a floor tom, and give the drum a nice feel that "throws the sound back up at you" so to speak. Alot of pro drummers use a similar tuning style. There are no hard, fast rules, but this method seems to be very popular.

[Ozzy Biz]

hahaa, youve just copied john bonham mate

Well, if it worked on Bonham's Ludwig 26, 14, 16, 18, 14 snare kit, why won't it work on his Ludwig 26, 14, 16, 18, 14 snare kit....

[lovemysonors]

Do you typically tune the res head tighter than the batter on floor and rack toms?

[fanagel]

check out the "drum tuning bible" on the web

[komodo]

What he said

http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/index.html

[Paradiddle my snizzle]

And the tom tuning thread here.

[larlev]

To answer your question....Yes...at least i do

[MadJazz]

Do you typically tune the res head tighter than the batter on floor and rack toms?

Reso tighter on racks, lower on floors. Or both the same with thick heads.

[Drummer Karl]

I play alot of Jazz and yes, I do tune the resos tighter than the batter heads.
I like to have a tone which seems higher but the batter feels still soft and not like a table. Even for rock I prefer a higher reso to a low one...can give me a very traditional Jazz, a big band sound...or even a solid rock sound.
When tuning it for Jazz I try to pitch the reso one or two notes higher than the batter, try to get this sweet spot, the point where the drums sound clean and nice...you know? =)
Although this depends on the drums I noticed.

Karl

[ledzepjb]

I play alot of Jazz and yes, I do tune the resos tighter than the batter heads.
I like to have a tone which seems higher but the batter feels still soft and not like a table. Even for rock I prefer a higher reso to a low one...can give me a very traditional Jazz, a big band sound...or even a solid rock sound.
When tuning it for Jazz I try to pitch the reso one or two notes higher than the batter, try to get this sweet spot, the point where the drums sound clean and nice...you know? =)
Although this depends on the drums I noticed.

Karl

I do pretty much the same thing as you Karl

[Drummer Karl]

I do pretty much the same thing as you Karl

mhhh, that is cool.
What kind of drums do you play? What heads do you use?
oh, I forgot to mention mine...er, I play coated Ambassdors/ coated G1 as batters, stock reso heads (like clear Ambassador)...playing a Tama Superstar Custom and a Basix custom with Short stack toms

Karl

[cdrums21]

Like Karl and others, I tune my resonant heads a bit higher than the batter as well. I usually tune mine about a minor third to third higher, which is 3 or 4 notes. It shortens the sustain on the drum and rounds out the sound so the sound "jumps right out" so to speak and is very distinguishable in the mix. The shortened sustain comes in handy with bigger toms as some can seem to ring forever. Tuned properly, they sound just right with just the right amount of sustain with no muffling. That's just my personal preference though......

[tamadrummer132]

well ebfore i ahd the reso head tuned lower than batter, and it had a wavy VERRRY resonant and warm tone. I loved it, but since then iv moved my drumns alot and they went out of tune, so i took some advice and tuned the bottoms tighter, and now it seems like a flat tone, and not alot of resonation. me no likey

[jking]

I just read this thread & was curious if you got the tuning figured out. I'm curious about your results & if you're still satisfied with what you came up with. I have an old export series myself that I am considering new heads for.

[konaboy]

yeah it was the reso's, put some brand new G1's on the bottom the next day and they sound pretty decent now. Still trying to find the sweet spot on the 12" tom but the sound is dramatically better than what it was.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I used to have similar problems when I was at school, we had an ancient Export set. It took a full two weeks of persuading to get my music teacher to buy new heads. We used Ambassadors I think and got a passable sound out of them. This was a few years ago. Those floor toms always were tricky to tune.

[jking]

I've been reading through the Drum Tuning Bible, I'm considering buying new heads for my set. It is mentioned in the DTB when tuning an individual drum to always tune up to what you want. This is mentioned specifically when discussing the pitch being higher at one lug than the others around it.

I'm wondering if this should also be applied in a more general sense. It would seem logical to tune the largest tom first and then move to to the next smaller size. Does this make sense, or am I off base here?

[jayp]

The DTB does note you should NEVER tune a lug down to another lug always UP in pitch

So with that in mind, heres a scenario

You are suppose to get each drum to its LOWEST point and tune them accordingly. So think about a floor tom being the first tuned, getting a nice fat low tone and then you realize after getting your floor tom tuned that your tom tom is at its lowest pitch and it sounds too high in compairison to your floor tom. Thus you have to tune your floor to match your rack tom an so forth.

[PreppieNerd]

That only applies to individual drums. Tuning order is preference. Joe Morris has mentioned on here that he tunes the higher toms first because he wants to achieve the lowest sound possible for each drum.

[bighaibigdrums]

I always tune the drum I have the hardest time getting a good sound out of. Then I tune the rest of the kit around it.

[harryconway]

I like the Jeff Ocheltree explanation that "drum tuning is an art and not a science". Whatever works. As long as the end result is good sounding drums.

[ermghoti]

I'm wondering if this should also be applied in a more general sense. It would seem logical to tune the largest tom first and then move to to the next smaller size. Does this make sense, or am I off base here?

The point is that when you loosen a lug, due to friction at the bearing edge, it will bind, and gradually release over time, leaving you with an untuned drum. This effect is not as great when tightening the lug.

It makes no physical difference in what order you tune your drums, but I advocate tuning the most troublesome one first.

[0min]

I was just wondering if there is a way to tune my drums to sound like bands such as The Wedding (look them up on purevolume or something) But basically they are pop/punk/southern rock type. With deep toms and bass. How should I tune my heads? Thanks a lot in advance.

Matt

[ZildjianMan1023]

i belive that just above wrinkle is for rock? im confused, i just tune my heads to where i like them

[0min]

I know, I'm sorry. I've been fiddling around with my heads and I can't seem to get the right sound. Should there be a difference in tightness between the top and bottom head of the drum?

[larlev]

I know, I'm sorry. I've been fiddling around with my heads and I can't seem to get the right sound. Should there be a difference in tightness between the top and bottom head of the drum?

Yes there should....keep in mind tuning is all personal preference....what I do is this...seat both heads...then I push my finger in the middle of the head...tensioning the rods to get out all wrinkles...then check that each lug is the same pitch....then on to batter..repeat...then I will tension reso 1/4 to 1/2 turns...then tension batter 1/4


This will get you in the ballpark....I usually mount drums in stand and make final adjustments....this is a very easy way of getting the drums close...at least for my taste..

One tip I can give.....don't OVER seat the head....tune the set like mentioned above....then play it..HARD...then make adjustments as necessary

This has been a tried and true method for me over the years.......it is a lot of fun trying different tensions when mounted on the stands....take your time and LISTEN to what is going on as you try different combos.....

Hope this helps a little...PM me if you need more info....or HELL give me a call I'll be glad to help..I know how aggravating it can be....and those of us that have been around awhile...owe it to you newer drummers to help out...

PM Fat Elvis and get his advice.....he's a damn good player and has a lot of experience....he won't mind.....I mainly do studio work...so live and studio tunings are somewhat different

[0min]

Thanks a lot man, that helps so much. Another thing; no matter how much I mess with it, I can not get my floor tom to get that huge 'boom' that it should have. It's always a high ringing type sound. Also, sorry I don't know all the terminology. I'm basically a self taught drummer.

Thanks again.

[larlev]

If you tune your floor tom like mentioned above...you shouldn't have any high tones at all....what size and what kit are you playing on? What heads also?

[0min]

It's a Mark II set. (terrible, I know) And the floor tom is 16". It's really the only drum I can't get right as of now. They're the stock heads.

[earth619619]

I also had a problem on the 16" floortom So i did what he said
it worked !

[HiTMaN]

It's interesting that no one mentioned finding out what type of heads are being used.

If you hear a drum sound that you like and you want to get a similar sound out of your kit, the first thing I would do is find out what drums heads are being used. single ply, double ply, whether or not the drummer is using any kind of muffling, or if he's letting the drums breath. Start by getting that information and then tune your kit as described above.

[larlev]

It's interesting that no one mentioned finding out what type of heads are being used.

If you hear a drum sound that you like and you want to get a similar sound out of your kit, the first thing I would do is find out what drums heads are being used. single ply, double ply, whether or not the drummer is using any kind of muffling, or if he's letting the drums breath. Start by getting that information and then tune your kit as described above.

You need to read more carefully.............

[Vintagedrummer]

One of the best things I ever did was buy the 'Drum Dial'. You can find them on MucisiansFriend or any large music store. The dial will allow you to get your drum in tune with itself. You will then learn how it is supoosed to sound when in tune. Then it simply becomes a matter of tweaking the drum into whatever sound you are looking for. Have fun & don't be afraid to experiment!

[Peter W.]

I have a tuning mystery:

I have a set of Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute.
The shells seems almost perfect:
- The bearing edges are completely even (no wobling when I put the shell on a flat surface)
- The roundness is almost perfect (within 1/8 of an inch)
- The rims seems almost perfectly round and even (no wobling on a flat surface)
- The heads are brand new, and almost perfect, Remo Clear Ambassadors

So, here is my problem: I tune my drums by notes, and I have a very good ear for notes. My drums end up sounding allmost perfectl!!!
- But, I allways end up tuning some lugs a lot, while others are almost loose.
- And when I put the perfecly tuned drum on a flat surface, it's wobling...
- So the tuning proces seems to twist and bend the rims....

What is going on? Have you tried the "flat surface test" on your perfectly tuned drums?

By the way: I bought a DrumDial, and it really hasn't helped me. Here are my DrumDial readings. LOOK HOW UN-EVEN THEY ARE:

10" Tom:
tophead: 73.5 - 71.5 - 72.5 - 72.0 - 75.0 - 73.0
bottomhead: 70.5 - 75.5 - 73.0 - 72.0 - 73.0 - 72.5

14" Tom:
tophead: 71.0 - 73.5 - 73.0 - 73.5 - 70.5 - 71.0 - 70.5 - 71.5
bottomhead: 72.5 - 71.0 - 71.0 - 71.5 - 70.5 - 71.0 - 72.5 - 71.0


Please help me crack this nut...

[fourstringdrums]

This problem with people using a drum dial and it giving odd readings seems to be happening a lot lately. My solution, ditch the drum dial. It seems like it's causing more problems than helping people tune better. It's fine for helping you fine tune things once you've tuned the drum by ear, but as far as helping you tune completely, it doesn't quite function that well.

If you're able to tune the drum fine and it sounds great, don't worry about it. I've never put a perfectly tuned drum onto a flat surface to see if it wobbled...there really is no point to do that. The drum is under tension and sometimes the hoop is not going to be pulled as evenly around the drum. Some people like triple flanged hoops for this because they flex more and you have more ease of tuning. As long as the tension of the head and pitch at each lug is even, there is no reason to worry. The problem about some lugs being looser happens a lot. My solution is to bring those looser lugs up to a point where they FEEL about the same tension as the other lugs. Then drop all the lugs back down to the pitch you want and that will even everything out. A looser lug doesn't really cause any problem other than when you want to go lower and now the lug has no tension on it at all. I think every drum set I've had, ranging from $600 to $2000 sets has this occurrence.

So, just don't worry about it that much. The shell is round, the bearing edges are fine, and the rims are fine with no tension on them, so there is no reason to worry. As long as you are able to tune well and the drum sounds great, and you do what I suggested above about dealing with the looser lugs, don't worry about what the drum dial says or whether the hoops are no longer completely flat while there is tension on the drum.

[Shinx]

I know this probably isn't the response you are looking for, but if the drums sound great and the tuning isn't doing any irreparable damage to any of the hoops or shells, leave it. Or you could tune them all evenly and then fine tune to the note you want.

[larlev]

question....what are you using for your FLAT surface.....granite or formica countertop...not glass

I wouldn't worry about it........I have never tried to check a tuned drum on a flat surface...my thought is if the shell/edges are good and the hoop is good...then it really doesn't matter much.....I'll check a flanged drum later today...

You could try a different brand of head....probably wouldn't change things though

I am very Anal about stuff like this.....bad flaw......I know how aggravating it can be...I always try to make things fit perfect....only it doesn't most of the time

and yes ditch the DD......there is noooo way that setting your head to a certain tension at every lug will result in YOU hearing the same pitch at every lug.....I have played with mine for months and I am convinced of this.

[Steady Freddy]

[QUOTE=Peter W.;346965]

10" Tom:
tophead: 73.5 - 71.5 - 72.5 - 72.0 - 75.0 - 73.0
bottomhead: 70.5 - 75.5 - 73.0 - 72.0 - 73.0 - 72.5

I've been using a drum dial for about two years and there's a learning curve to it.

At the tensions you have listed you need to back off on the rod that reads 75 and tighten the rod that reads 71.5. That should even things out to around 73. Both my kits, a DW and a Ludwig seem to like the 75 - 80 range and that seems to yield more consistent readings.

Two ply heads are not as consistent as single plies and muffled heads can yield some inconsistent numbers also. It's not unusual to get a rod that reads 5 points above or below the rest of the rods. Check the screws that hold the lugs to the shell. that may also help.

Check the hoops on a flat surface also. They may be tweaked and that can also generate some inconsistent readings.

In the end it's the sound and not the numbers that you're after. If it sounds good don't fix it.

[Peter W.]

Gentlemen!
Thanks for tryin' to help solving the mystery. But have you grasped the point of the mystery:
When a healthy drum is tuned allmost perfect, BY (a good) EAR, the rims seems to get twisted, and the lugs are very un-evenly tensioned.

How come? What's the physics? And is there a solution?

[larlev]

It's all in the HEAD.......

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

I only use my DD to get things close, then fine tune by ear. I'm sure my DD settings would vary if I measured after the fine tuning. It's no big deal. It's the sound that matters most. I've had the loose lug thing happen as well. I think it happens a lot for me because I'm using die cast hoops, which are rigid and can keep tension between two lugs even if the in between lug isn't as tight. When that happens I check to see if a lug is over tightened, and try to make compromises.

[Peter W.]

Let me just clarify one thing:
When I say that I tune the drums by notes, it means the I tune EACH LUG by notes - using my ears.

My 10" tom is tuned so it produces a G# at each lug.

My 14" tom is tuned so it produces a C at each lug.

So how comes the tension (measured by the DrumDial) is so different at each lug?
And that it actually twists the rims, to reach the same notes at each lug?

How come? Isn't it strange?

[fourstringdrums]

Let me just clarify one thing:
When I say that I tune the drums by notes, it means the I tune EACH LUG by notes - using my ears.

My 10" tom is tuned so it produces a G# at each lug.

My 14" tom is tuned so it produces a C at each lug.

So how comes the tension (measured by the DrumDial) is so different at each lug?
And that it actually twists the rims, to reach the same notes at each lug?

How come? Isn't it strange?

It's strange, but drumheads aren't perfect in that it's going to take different amounts of tension around the head to achieve equal pitch. Because of that, the readings will be off, and depending on how much higher the tension is, the hoop may be pulled down more in one area than another.

Another thing, when you tune, have you tried bring up the pitch used two drum keys at opposite lugs? This will help try and make the tension on the head so it is equal.

[Peter W.]

It's strange, but drumheads aren't perfect in that it's going to take different amounts of tension around the head to achieve equal pitch. Because of that, the readings will be off, and depending on how much higher the tension is, the hoop may be pulled down more in one area than another.

Another thing, when you tune, have you tried bring up the pitch used two drum keys at opposite lugs? This will help try and make the tension on the head so it is equal.

Hey man, that was a very good point! Maby the hads are not perfect in it's density, and thickness - So, the tension has to be different to compensate. And when the tension has to be different, the rims get a little twisted...

If that is the explanation, I wonder if other brands of heads could be more even in density and thickness?