TOM TUNING

[Elvis]

THC,


Two things I see that could be the problem, right off the bat.

1) When tuning heads on a drum, you tune the resonant side first, then the batter side.
I had problems tuning drums in my younger days, until someone clued me into that. Tuning got a lot easier afterwards.

2) The room you're playing your drums in may be affecting how you hear them. Try repositioning them in that room, and/or move them to a different room and see if the drums sound better.
As for head combo's, I've setteled on a medium weight single ply on the batter side, with a thin weight head on the resonant side. Both coated. The thin weight head on the resonant side makes the drum sound bigger and increases perceived resonance.
For bass drums, it can be difficult to find thin weight heads in those sizes, but you can cut one ply out of a twin ply head and essentially have a single ply thin weight head.



Elvis

[Sjogras]

1) When tuning heads on a drum, you tune the resonant side first, then the batter side.
I had problems tuning drums in my younger days, until someone clued me into that. Tuning got a lot easier afterwards.

Elvis

Why would it be easier? You see a lot of people claiming this, but never any explanation why.

[Tantrix]

Any tuning problems I ever have come from the floor toms. Tuning an entire set, I can get beautiful sound out of snare, bass, and rack toms fairly quickly...then when moving on to the floor toms I go round and round with those until I get them where I want them.

[Elvis]

Why would it be easier? You see a lot of people claiming this, but never any explanation why.
Why is a good question.
I'm no physics expert, so I can't answer the "why", but in my experience, I found it was easier and quicker to tune up the drum if I started with the resonant side head.

...of course, that doesn't explain the times when one only changes one head. =)


Elvis

[Netz Ausg]

Why would it be easier? You see a lot of people claiming this, but never any explanation why.

Because the reso is the side that projects tone to your audience, whilst the batter is the side that dictates the attack of the drum hit. If you tune first for tone and secondly for attack then you'll get the pitch you desire first.

[scarlit]

I've been struggling with the toms lately. Cant seem to get the sound I like out of them no matter how I tune them. Really starting to frustrate me.

[Netz Ausg]

I've been struggling with the toms lately. Cant seem to get the sound I like out of them no matter how I tune them. Really starting to frustrate me.

what sound are you looking for? What size drums and what head combo?

[Elvis]

I've been struggling with the toms lately. Cant seem to get the sound I like out of them no matter how I tune them. Really starting to frustrate me.
It could be that you are asking your toms to speak outside of the note range that they are capable of speaking in.
Say, for instance, you're trying to get the "low rumble" you'd hear in a 16" drum out of your 12" tom, guess what...ain't happenin'.
The note range that the 12 speaks in is too high for that.
The reason is the size of the drum. Smaller drums will speak in high ranges than larger ones.
So, before you get any more frustrated, try playing with one of your toms.
Tune it up until it won't speak any higher, then tune it down until it won't speak any lower.
This will be the note range that tom speaks in.
You can now transpose that information to your other toms and realize a general range in which those toms will speak in.
If you find that those toms won't speak in the note range that you're looking for, guess what...new tom-tom time.


Elvis

[scarlit]

Did a gig on Wednesday, the drummer from the other band loved the toms. Maybe I'm just going crazy.

[Sjogras]

I have a question here, do your toms produce the same note as the heads are tuned to?

I really can't understand this, take the 10" as an example. When both heads are tuned to D for instance, the drum produces an F. I tuned it today, reso D and batter C, and the drum produces an E.

So why does this happen? Does it apply to all drums, or am I not tuning to the sweetspot of my drums? This is what I'm hearing behind the kit, but that's all that matters anyway since I'm only playing at home.

Edit: I checked the other toms!

8" - Batter, F, reso G, drum produces a G.

12" - Batter, A, reso B, drum produces an A. - Seems weird? Edit3: (I may have been entirely wrong here, need to check again tomorrow)

Edit2: Found this: http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?195170-Drum-Tuning-Notes-Pitches-Intervals

[wildbill]

....If it matters, It's going to be a long time before I have any real concerns about projection, cutting through other instruments, overtones getting buried under other instruments, or how the "audience" is going to hear my kit. I am my only audience 99% of the time, and I'm usually playing at lower volumes in my basement. I mostly want my kit to sound good from the drivers seat.


Any advice is much appreciated. Thx


Sounds like you're doing everything pretty much right. But it's possible to get obsessed with tuning.

In your situation, I'd say just get the fundamental tone (the basic pitch) you want from each drum, making sure the lugs are relatively close in tension (none so loose they're falling out, or one much tighter than the rest).

Then, difficult as it seems, just ignore the tuning and play them for a while before you give it another try..

[Sjogras]

Edit: I checked the other toms!

8" - Batter, F, reso G, drum produces a G.

12" - Batter, A, reso B, drum produces an A. - Seems weird? Edit3: (I may have been entirely wrong here, need to check again tomorrow)

Edit2: Found this: http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?195170-Drum-Tuning-Notes-Pitches-Intervals

I must have been confused or something yesterday, my drums seem to follow the same characteristics as the ones in the pearl forum thread.

Size/Batter/Reso/Overall

8"/E/F/G

10"C/D/E

12"G/A/B

The floor toms aren't tuned the same way, I prefer to have the batters really low, but the resos higher, the 14" reso is E, and that note carries through even though the batter barely produces a tone. The 16" reso is B.

[Elvis]

Sjogras,

A drum, any drum, is more than just a head (or a pair of heads).
If you account for everything that makes up a drum, and figure out the note value for the frequency that those other parts are resonating at, I think you'll find the combined frequency's will equal the note your toms are singing at.
In other words, it may make better sense (in this case, anyway) to think of your toms as being tuned to a chord, rather than a note.


Elvis

[Sjogras]

Elvis,

Yes, I tried to find the note of each drum by tapping only the shell, but the mounts for the lugs were vibrating too much and I couldn't really hear any clear note. Is there a better way to distinguish the pitch of the shell?

I found that the higher overall note has something to do with the drum having two heads, without batter and reso tuned A on the 12", the drum produced a very clear A when hit lightly. I'll have to try tuning only the batter so I can hit it harder and see if it has any difference, more power should agitate the shell more. (I didn't want to damage the reso head)

[Elvis]

"Is there a better way to distinguish the pitch of the shell?"

Did you put the Chromatic Tuner inside the shell (heads off) and tap on the outside, holding the pickup for the tuner in the same area as you were tapping?
I find it interesting that the pitch apparently changes due to how hard you hit the heads.
Seems like it shouldn't make a difference.
...also, I would worry too much about ruining the reso head (unless its a snare side).
Mylar's a pretty tough material.


Elvis

[nickjd]

Tune both heads a minor 3rd lower than the overall pitch you want. Works every time. Even on kicks. Snares are slightly different.

[Sjogras]

Did you put the Chromatic Tuner inside the shell (heads off) and tap on the outside, holding the pickup for the tuner in the same area as you were tapping?

I never used a tuner, I tried to listen for a note. But I found it very hard.


I find it interesting that the pitch apparently changes due to how hard you hit the heads.
Seems like it shouldn't make a difference.

Well if say the batter is tuned lower than the reso a light hit would probably produce a lower note since you mostly just hear the batter.


Tune both heads a minor 3rd lower than the overall pitch you want. Works every time. Even on kicks. Snares are slightly different.

Is that 1.5 seminotes, like I wrote in post #513? Mine and apparently many other people's drums behave that way. And yea, I agree regarding the snare. I never tune for a desired overall pitch, I start by tuning the reso to a note, G or A mostly. Then just tune up the batter until the drum sounds good.

[nickjd]

C down to A is a minor 3rd.

[PeteN]

Just watched a sweet sound check vid of a custom Mapex Saturn on YouTube. I really like this guy's tuning. What do you guys think??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3NOP0CpzQ

[huskytool]

I use decent drums, decent heads, an Evans torque key and common sense. I see many people try to make this very complicated. Watch Bob Gatzen in this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ9Unab1OzU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[PeteN]

I use decent drums, decent heads, an Evans torque key and common sense. I see many people try to make this very complicated. Watch Bob Gatzen in this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ9Unab1OzU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I don't care for the torque key or the drum dial :-)

I do agree that people make it complicated and in reality it just takes lot's of practice, and patience.

[Sjogras]

Well, drum tuning is very complicated. Once I started realizing this and looking upon drum tuning as something complicated, it got a lot easier. :)

[PeteN]

What do tyou guys think of my Mapex Saturn rack tom tuning?

They are 10" and 12" rack toms, emperor batters and ambassador resos, recorded with my Zoom Q3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS7HyJ2-4QI

Thanks

[topgun2021]

Does this John Good "napkin trick" do anything?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl9wgXSfxew&feature=relmfu

I am dumbfounded.

[Sjogras]

Does this John Wood "napkin trick" do anything?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl9wgXSfxew&feature=relmfu

I am dumbfounded.

I think it's to seat the head, but I don't know if using a cloth is really any advantage. I find his tuning technique very weird too, tuning 2.5 full turns on one lug at a time... big no no for me but whatever floats his boat.

[Netz Ausg]

What do tyou guys think of my Mapex Saturn rack tom tuning?

They are 10" and 12" rack toms, emperor batters and ambassador resos, recorded with my Zoom Q3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS7HyJ2-4QI

Thanks

Sounds like the interval between batter/reso is different on each drum. You're getting a pronounced bend on the larger tom and a short flat note on the other. Definitely too low - needs to come up a way.

[topgun2021]

Sounds like the interval between batter/reso is different on each drum. You're getting a pronounced bend on the larger tom and a short flat note on the other. Definitely too low - needs to come up a way.

That is what I like to call an opinion.
\
also, it is demonstration, I doubt he was trying to match the intervals, but instead he meant to show the two different ones.

[Netz Ausg]

That is what I like to call an opinion.

I'm pretty sure he was asking for an opinion, so that's what I gave.

It's also not clear that it's a tuning method comparison, so I responded with an honest appraisal of how the tuning of the 2 drums (as a pair, not seperately) sounds to me.

So yeah, one bends, the other doesn't - I think they could speak more clearly with more authority at a higher tuning.

[PeteN]

Sounds like the interval between batter/reso is different on each drum. You're getting a pronounced bend on the larger tom and a short flat note on the other. Definitely too low - needs to come up a way.

Yeah I agree and fixed it last week via a new thread that I posted. http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88027 (http://http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88027)
The link will take you to a new topic under "heads" where I have a total of 3 vids with different turnings. Let me know what you guys think... Thanks!

[Sjogras]

I'm wondering here, how do people generally tune floor toms? For quite a while I've been enjoying a deep and low thud, which I achievied by tuning the reso quite high and the batter just a little bit above wrinkles. But I'm growing tired of the lack of resonance, I have to hit quite hard for them to open nicely. Very little tone, lots of attack.

So, I've been experimenting with higher tuning, i.e. E to G for a 14". With the heads one or two notes apart all I'm getting is Bwwaooom, so I thought, "well hey, both heads the same then!" but I'm still getting quite a bit of distortion (Bwwooum), even though the heads are evenly tuned, well, as good as I can do. Tuning the rack toms is no problem in terms of getting the heads even.

I guess what I'm going for is "Bouumm". As usual, I'm assuimg trial and error is the procedure here. But any help is much appreciated!

[steverok]

I guess what I'm going for is "Bouumm". As usual, I'm assuimg trial and error is the procedure here. But any help is much appreciated!

Trial and error is the only tuning method I know. Some toms tune up easy, and others take more work. I never tune the reso head the same or lower than the batter. Other than that, I know nothing other than good sound. Sorry I'm of no help at'all.

[AirborneSFC]

So I have been tuning by ear; I played brass for years and can pick out a note from a piano by ear.

That being said what are everyone's thoughts on products like Resotune and the Tunebot? Either seems great for fine tuning or int he case of Resotune maybe find other optimal pitches.

[tard]

So I have been tuning by ear; I played brass for years and can pick out a note from a piano by ear.

That being said what are everyone's thoughts on products like Resotune and the Tunebot? Either seems great for fine tuning or int he case of Resotune maybe find other optimal pitches.

Although I haven't had a chance to use one yet the tunebot seems to be getting good reviews but the resotune is to drums what strobe tuners are to pianos if you can afford $250 plus shipping to toss out on one. Personally I think any music store selling drums should have one considering the amount drums they have to tune plus its much easier to sell a kit that is in perfect tune rather than the quick so so tune they usually get just to get them on the floor for sale.

[IsaiahBenJamin]

More confusion: This might take some physics to explain but:

Why aren't toms all the same size just tuned differently?

[Birdman]

Acoustic deeper tones need physical "real estate" space to develop their longer waves. Can not do that in a 10" tom. And if you tighten a 14" to sound like a 10", you will learn the meaning of "choking" a drum. You maybe near the note, but the sound will be blunt and shallow. Toms are meant to have a singing quality and be somewhat or very throaty. Vienna Boys choir is not the best choice for "Swing Low Sweet Chariot". Physics.

[Silverfox]

I'll have to make some recordings of my tuning, since I just added a matching 16 x 18 floor tom to the rest of my setup.

I previously had my roto toms removed because, although nice to have on the side, I didn't find them useful enough for most of what I played. Normally the factory default lug tuning on them makes them high pitched and almost timbali-ish. Surprisingly enough, I recently decided to add them back into my setup, and decided to tune them lower using a drum key on the lugs. I then rotated them slightly past the point where the frames aren't loose--basically the lowest tuning on them--and sure enough, they match with the rest of my toms! All that I have left to do is some fine tuning in order to get the specific notes that I want, so that they fit with the scale that my regular toms are on.

[Sjogras]

Hello I recently bought a Meridian Maple with 8,10,12,14,16 toms . with pinstriple UT Remo heads . how is the tune guys ? watch on Youtube :

http://youtu.be/zAZhGdG9EPI

In my opinion, bring up the 8" a little bit, G# perhaps. Then descend in 4ths, it just works! The floor toms sound great though :)

[slowrocker]

Hey, I have a 10 inch rack tom that I recently bought a Remo Ambassador coated head for and it just doesn't sound that great. I mean, I can't seem to get good sound out of it regardless of what I do. Any ideas?

[Sjogras]

Hey, I have a 10 inch rack tom that I recently bought a Remo Ambassador coated head for and it just doesn't sound that great. I mean, I can't seem to get good sound out of it regardless of what I do. Any ideas?

Tune the batter head B and the reso head C, make sure the heads are as evenly tuned as possible. Or, if you like both heads the same, tune them both B#.

Done? Your drum should produce a nice D :)

[autonomos]

Tune the batter head B and the reso head C, make sure the heads are as evenly tuned as possible. Or, if you like both heads the same, tune them both B#.

Done? Your drum should produce a nice D :)

B#? Are you sure? .

[Nickropolis]

I know it's been mentioned before but I just experienced this phenomenon for the first time and I was literally blown away.

I was tuning my floor tom after I had moved a few things around and could NOT for the life of me get it to sound like anything resembling a drum. I moved over to a couch to get more comfortable while tuning and it sounded WORSE, I was almost to the point of switching out one or both heads...then it dawned on me, I'm on a hardwood floor. I put the floor tom back where it was, on the rug with the rest of the kit, with a fairly thick foam pad under the legs...hoooooly crap, I have a floor tom again.

Honestly the best it's ever sounded and I hadn't changed the tuning from where it had been. Then after some tweaking I really got it dialed in and am very happy with how it sounds. Btw it's 16x16, G1 coated over stock Sonor single ply clear.

So, if you guys can't get your floor tom where you want it, try foam, the difference for me is night and day.

[Piebe]

What works for me is this: i tune the floor tom first so that it resonates nicely and sounds a bit like a strong chord on a contrabass. It has to sound musical and must be tuned in harmony with your cymbals.

After that your floor tom will be the ground tone where you tune your rack tom to. When tuned correctly, the rack tom will also be in harmony with your cymbals which enables you to play call and respond patterns on both of your toms. After that you can fine tune your kick and snare too. But the snare is least important when you tune it dry and without reso like i do. When your kit is tuned in harmony it will sound better than ever and make your realize e-kits will always come up short.

[Elvis]

I'm wondering here, how do people generally tune floor toms? For quite a while I've been enjoying a deep and low thud, which I achievied by tuning the reso quite high and the batter just a little bit above wrinkles. But I'm growing tired of the lack of resonance, I have to hit quite hard for them to open nicely. Very little tone, lots of attack.

So, I've been experimenting with higher tuning, i.e. E to G for a 14". With the heads one or two notes apart all I'm getting is Bwwaooom, so I thought, "well hey, both heads the same then!" but I'm still getting quite a bit of distortion (Bwwooum), even though the heads are evenly tuned, well, as good as I can do. Tuning the rack toms is no problem in terms of getting the heads even.

I guess what I'm going for is "Bouumm". As usual, I'm assuimg trial and error is the procedure here. But any help is much appreciated!
The descriptive you gave in the last paragraph reminded me of the sound of my 14x14 when I swapped out the resoant side head for a snare side head.
Thinner head on the bottom give more of a "tympani-like" sound, and "bouumm", to me, evokes the sound of a tympani, in my head.
...and to answer your original question, I tune my floor toms just like my toms.
This is my approach. Use the same, or similar head setups and tuning and let the physical size of the drum dictate the difference in sound.
It's always worked for me.


Elvis

[Elvis]

I know it's been mentioned before but I just experienced this phenomenon for the first time and I was literally blown away.

I was tuning my floor tom after I had moved a few things around and could NOT for the life of me get it to sound like anything resembling a drum. I moved over to a couch to get more comfortable while tuning and it sounded WORSE, I was almost to the point of switching out one or both heads...then it dawned on me, I'm on a hardwood floor. I put the floor tom back where it was, on the rug with the rest of the kit, with a fairly thick foam pad under the legs...hoooooly crap, I have a floor tom again.

Honestly the best it's ever sounded and I hadn't changed the tuning from where it had been. Then after some tweaking I really got it dialed in and am very happy with how it sounds. Btw it's 16x16, G1 coated over stock Sonor single ply clear.

So, if you guys can't get your floor tom where you want it, try foam, the difference for me is night and day.
I just mentioned something like this at another forum.
Rooms, they can really f*k with your head, sometimes.
I was trying to tune a 12" tom once and no matter what I did, it sounded like crap.
I got so frustrated, I decided to put it down for a minute and took a step back.
When I looked up, I suddenly realized I was standing 2 feet away from big concrete wall.
I picked the drum up, moved back to the middle of the room and a minute later, the drum was finished and sounding great.


Elvis

[Sjogras]

...and to answer your original question, I tune my floor toms just like my toms.

As of today, so do I. I have pretty much reached a point where I (for now) couldn't ask for a better drum sound. I looked a few pages back and found my first post in this thread, written 07-29-2011. So I guess it has taken about a year and half to learn how to really tune a drum kit. However, I still haven't gotten into getting this sound onto recordings, but that's another story...

[Elvis]

Until you decide to do your own engineering, you never will.


Elvis

[Robert90]

As of today, so do I. I have pretty much reached a point where I (for now) couldn't ask for a better drum sound. I looked a few pages back and found my first post in this thread, written 07-29-2011. So I guess it has taken about a year and half to learn how to really tune a drum kit. However, I still haven't gotten into getting this sound onto recordings, but that's another story...

[Maggers]

Heres a little tuning tip i stumbled upon.Put on some led zep when you tune your toms
.i tuned up to "good times bad times".If you can get it close to the Bohnam ,you are sorted.If you need to get a good brush sound ,tune your snare to any song on "modern times" by By bob dylan,thats what i do..Whatever genre you play ,if you get your drums close to your idols then you are on your way to sounding good.

[Swexx]

Heres a little tuning tip i stumbled upon.Put on some led zep when you tune your toms
.i tuned up to "good times bad times".If you can get it close to the Bohnam ,you are sorted.If you need to get a good brush sound ,tune your snare to any song on "modern times" by By bob dylan,thats what i do..Whatever genre you play ,if you get your drums close to your idols then you are on your way to sounding good.

That's actually a pretty interesting advice, plus you mentioned two songs/albums I really enjoy (I think Modern Times is brilliant).

[bunchy45]

Try tuning the bottom head to a perfect fourth above the top (i.e. G on batter, C above on reso) if its a deeper drum (14x14, 16x16), or if its a shallower drum (12x8, 10x7) tune the reso a whole step lower than the batter (i.e. A on batter, G on reso). This is what I've grown to over the years, many different methods. Happy tuning!

[Schrup]

Howdy all, I bought a used Accent Combo kit & new Pinstripes. I didn't buy new reso heads. I used the Bob Gatzen videos to tune everything & am pleased, especially with the snare.

My toms sound a full octave higher than the drum shop demos. Is that because the PO overtightened the reso heads & in turn I over tightened the batters? Do I have to buy new batter & reso heads to get a "low tune"? I like the tone I have because it matches my cymbals well, but wish I'd bought new batters to begin with. I got moongel for the old ones which helped.

Would new reso heads make much difference at this point of am I better to wait until I need new batters?

[Elvis]

I don't know what Bob is telling you guys, who use his video, because I'm happy with how I tune my drums, but did you pull all the tension off of both heads on each drum before you went through Bob's tuning process, or did you just start with the drums already tensioned and try to work from there?



Elvis

[Schrup]

I pulled all the heads off & cleaned the seating surfaces first. I played with the tuning on my floor tom last night. It sounds best the way I had it, anything else sounds flat.

[Elvis]

Could be that you simply don't like the sound of pinstripes.
At this point, it might be wise to take one drum and see if a different head would sound better to you.
Since the Pinstripe sounds dead to you, it might behoove you to try a coated Ambassador.
Pick a drum, try the head on it. Maybe experiment with different tunings, to help dial in the sound.
I dont' think the resonant side head is the issue, as I assume its the stock head that the drum came with.
It should be a thin weight head and will help the drum sound bigger and more resonant.
If a different head (and possibly, different tuning) will get you the sound you want, then repeat that with the rest of the kit.
However, if it doesn't work for you, you're only out the cost of that one head, not a whole drumset's worth of that head.
...just an idea.



Elvis
P.S. FYI - when I bought my Ludwig kit and was wondering about head combo's and someone once told me that Ludwig heads sound best on Ludwig drums. Maybe the next head you'd want to consider would be a Ludwig Weathermaster Heavy.

[HammerDown]

Tuning headaches...this works great...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISdMNKb-hjc

[Lovetadraw]

I've heard of doing that for bass drums. It worked for my bass drum.

[HammerDown]

I've heard of doing that for bass drums. It worked for my bass drum.
For 'bass drums' the above also works great > and for a BD you also have the option the leave a 'little wrinkle' in the head for more 'thump'.
Seriously though...the link I provided works GREAT on all size drums, and the tuner as an EXCELLENT base to tune-up too.

[szokematyi]

My question is about how drum placement can/could/should affect tuning.
I just bought a new Saturn IV (Trans Ash Burl Burst finish), which has 2 rack toms and 2 floor toms. But I'm considering placing the smaller floor tom to my left, next to the hi-hat. This way my hands would be free to use floor toms and rack toms and the snare without crossing over or having to turn too much to the right. But would it affect how I should tune them? Because the tune-difference would be quite big between the 12" rack and the 16" floor in case of a "tom run-down" (like 10"->12"->16"). Or is this not an issue? I know that this too is personal preference, but is there a proven fault in retuning them, or leaving the tuning as it is, or something? I'm probably not the only one who's thinking about placing toms like this, and I was hoping that someone here have tried this once and knows the pros and cons of this placement/idea.

Thank you in advance!
Cheers,
Matthew

[porter]

My question is about how drum placement can/could/should affect tuning.
I just bought a new Saturn IV (Trans Ash Burl Burst finish), which has 2 rack toms and 2 floor toms. But I'm considering placing the smaller floor tom to my left, next to the hi-hat. This way my hands would be free to use floor toms and rack toms and the snare without crossing over or having to turn too much to the right. But would it affect how I should tune them? Because the tune-difference would be quite big between the 12" rack and the 16" floor in case of a "tom run-down" (like 10"->12"->16"). Or is this not an issue? I know that this too is personal preference, but is there a proven fault in retuning them, or leaving the tuning as it is, or something? I'm probably not the only one who's thinking about placing toms like this, and I was hoping that someone here have tried this once and knows the pros and cons of this placement/idea.

Thank you in advance!
Cheers,
Matthew

There's no real reason to adjust that tuning. When I did it, I tuned the them all to a basic chord (root, 3rd, 5th, and octave) and it worked really well. Plus you get to do cool sextuplet fills down the 'scale'.

[Elvis]

My question is about how drum placement can/could/should affect tuning.
I just bought a new Saturn IV (Trans Ash Burl Burst finish), which has 2 rack toms and 2 floor toms. But I'm considering placing the smaller floor tom to my left, next to the hi-hat. This way my hands would be free to use floor toms and rack toms and the snare without crossing over or having to turn too much to the right. But would it affect how I should tune them? Because the tune-difference would be quite big between the 12" rack and the 16" floor in case of a "tom run-down" (like 10"->12"->16"). Or is this not an issue? I know that this too is personal preference, but is there a proven fault in retuning them, or leaving the tuning as it is, or something? I'm probably not the only one who's thinking about placing toms like this, and I was hoping that someone here have tried this once and knows the pros and cons of this placement/idea.

Thank you in advance!
Cheers,
Matthew
Matt,

If you're worried that the difference between the 12 and the 16 is too great, I'll tell you, it'll be just fine.
I once had a 4-piece kit that was 20/12/16 and worked just fine.
Sure, its a farther spread than a 12/14 combo, but it didn't sound odd.
I didn't change how I tuned those drums, either.


Elvis

[szokematyi]

Matt,

If you're worried that the difference between the 12 and the 16 is too great, I'll tell you, it'll be just fine.
I once had a 4-piece kit that was 20/12/16 and worked just fine.
Sure, its a farther spread than a 12/14 combo, but it didn't sound odd.
I didn't change how I tuned those drums, either.


Elvis

It's not about the difference being too great between the 12 and the 16, but the: how! How would it fit into a tom rundown, if the tonal distance between the 10 and 12 is noticably smaller then between the 12 and the 16! It would sound like, I skipped a tom!
Could it sound awkward?

I would never do a run-down like this: 10->12->jump to my left, to the 14" in Mangini-style->then jump to my right, to my 16" mangini-style! For the simple reason that I'm not that fast and/or technical! But I would do a 10-12-16! And this placement would allow me to use either my left or my right on a lower tom (floor toms) during a fill (mostly dynamic/rhythmic fills, not fast ones), without having to cross over. So my 14" would be an "occasional sound", only when the sticking creates a situation, where it is easier to use my left on a floor tom. Would what you said still apply?
Sorry for being this... ahm... donkey, but... :)

[Elvis]

Well, if it were me, I think I would attack the 12. Drop its tuning.
How much? Til' it sounds "right" (to you) in the 10-12-16 combo.
Since you've moved the 14 to a different location, you've effectively removed it from consideration of being part of a tom run, which (if I've read all this correctly) seems to be your concern.
Thus, changing its tuning would be for a different reason than what we seem to be concerning ourselves with here.
Just remember, the toms are sized in such a way, so as to speak a certain note.
You do have some flexibility, through varying degrees of tension and various head setups, but if it just doesn't work, then you're most likely trying to tune the drum outside of its note range and the only cure for that is to get a different sized drum.
...anyway, start with the 12. If the best you can accomplish is "almost there", then you may need to bring the 16 up a little to meet it.


Elvis

[Sjogras]

Could it sound awkward?


Maybe, maybe not, you have to try! Like I answered your question in the GH thread, a gap between toms isn't really a problem, at least not to me. If I do a fill down my 8", 10", 14", 16" configuration, you obviously hear two different high notes and two different low notes, and that's no problem at all! Just listen to Danny Carey if you don't trust me. ;)

By the way, have you tried moving the 16" further to the right, with the 14" still to your right? And I mean moving the 16" pretty damn far, it allows for a more natural playing position.

Elvis, would you really compromise the sweet spot in order to get even intervals with 10" - 12" - 16"? You'd have a low and rumbly 12" and a high and boingy 16". :)

[Elvis]

Elvis, would you really compromise the sweet spot in order to get even intervals with 10" - 12" - 16"? You'd have a low and rumbly 12" and a high and boingy 16". :)
Like I said in my prior reply, if the changes have to be that large, then your best bet is to get another drum that'll fit in between them.
Amyway, what's a "sweet spot". You tune each drum 'til it sounds good and play the freakin' kit.
As for me, personally, I wouldn't have a problem with the jump between 12 and 16. I already stated that I've owned a kit with a 12/16 tom setup and I had no problems with it....probably why I've owned a kit with a 10/14 tom setup since 1999.



Elvis

[szokematyi]

Maybe, maybe not, you have to try! Like I answered your question in the GH thread, a gap between toms isn't really a problem, at least not to me. If I do a fill down my 8", 10", 14", 16" configuration, you obviously hear two different high notes and two different low notes, and that's no problem at all! Just listen to Danny Carey if you don't trust me. ;)

By the way, have you tried moving the 16" further to the right, with the 14" still to your right? And I mean moving the 16" pretty damn far, it allows for a more natural playing position.

Elvis, would you really compromise the sweet spot in order to get even intervals with 10" - 12" - 16"? You'd have a low and rumbly 12" and a high and boingy 16". :)

Elvis"s approach would be a problem, because I'd still do some occasional tribal tom-stuff too, so I would still need the four different sound. Sjorgas! Danny Carey is one of my favourites, and You're right! His tom-sound is a bit like what I'm trying to figure out now. And I know that I would have to try that out for myself, but the kit just arrived a few days ago, and I have not had the time to assemble it in our practice space. I wanted some advice before I tore apart my rack system! Lazy much, huh? :)
Anyways, thank you guys! I needed these words to find my way (or at least the direction)!

Cheers, and keep banging heads!
Matthew