TOM TUNING

[edisontsai]

Yes also using a coated head for the resonance will help : )

[Elvis]

THC,


Two things I see that could be the problem, right off the bat.

1) When tuning heads on a drum, you tune the resonant side first, then the batter side.
I had problems tuning drums in my younger days, until someone clued me into that. Tuning got a lot easier afterwards.

2) The room you're playing your drums in may be affecting how you hear them. Try repositioning them in that room, and/or move them to a different room and see if the drums sound better.
As for head combo's, I've setteled on a medium weight single ply on the batter side, with a thin weight head on the resonant side. Both coated. The thin weight head on the resonant side makes the drum sound bigger and increases perceived resonance.
For bass drums, it can be difficult to find thin weight heads in those sizes, but you can cut one ply out of a twin ply head and essentially have a single ply thin weight head.



Elvis

[Sjogras]

1) When tuning heads on a drum, you tune the resonant side first, then the batter side.
I had problems tuning drums in my younger days, until someone clued me into that. Tuning got a lot easier afterwards.

Elvis

Why would it be easier? You see a lot of people claiming this, but never any explanation why.

[Tantrix]

Any tuning problems I ever have come from the floor toms. Tuning an entire set, I can get beautiful sound out of snare, bass, and rack toms fairly quickly...then when moving on to the floor toms I go round and round with those until I get them where I want them.

[Elvis]

Why would it be easier? You see a lot of people claiming this, but never any explanation why.
Why is a good question.
I'm no physics expert, so I can't answer the "why", but in my experience, I found it was easier and quicker to tune up the drum if I started with the resonant side head.

...of course, that doesn't explain the times when one only changes one head. =)


Elvis

[Netz Ausg]

Why would it be easier? You see a lot of people claiming this, but never any explanation why.

Because the reso is the side that projects tone to your audience, whilst the batter is the side that dictates the attack of the drum hit. If you tune first for tone and secondly for attack then you'll get the pitch you desire first.

[scarlit]

I've been struggling with the toms lately. Cant seem to get the sound I like out of them no matter how I tune them. Really starting to frustrate me.

[Netz Ausg]

I've been struggling with the toms lately. Cant seem to get the sound I like out of them no matter how I tune them. Really starting to frustrate me.

what sound are you looking for? What size drums and what head combo?

[Elvis]

I've been struggling with the toms lately. Cant seem to get the sound I like out of them no matter how I tune them. Really starting to frustrate me.
It could be that you are asking your toms to speak outside of the note range that they are capable of speaking in.
Say, for instance, you're trying to get the "low rumble" you'd hear in a 16" drum out of your 12" tom, guess what...ain't happenin'.
The note range that the 12 speaks in is too high for that.
The reason is the size of the drum. Smaller drums will speak in high ranges than larger ones.
So, before you get any more frustrated, try playing with one of your toms.
Tune it up until it won't speak any higher, then tune it down until it won't speak any lower.
This will be the note range that tom speaks in.
You can now transpose that information to your other toms and realize a general range in which those toms will speak in.
If you find that those toms won't speak in the note range that you're looking for, guess what...new tom-tom time.


Elvis

[scarlit]

Did a gig on Wednesday, the drummer from the other band loved the toms. Maybe I'm just going crazy.

[Sjogras]

I have a question here, do your toms produce the same note as the heads are tuned to?

I really can't understand this, take the 10" as an example. When both heads are tuned to D for instance, the drum produces an F. I tuned it today, reso D and batter C, and the drum produces an E.

So why does this happen? Does it apply to all drums, or am I not tuning to the sweetspot of my drums? This is what I'm hearing behind the kit, but that's all that matters anyway since I'm only playing at home.

Edit: I checked the other toms!

8" - Batter, F, reso G, drum produces a G.

12" - Batter, A, reso B, drum produces an A. - Seems weird? Edit3: (I may have been entirely wrong here, need to check again tomorrow)

Edit2: Found this: http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?195170-Drum-Tuning-Notes-Pitches-Intervals

[wildbill]

....If it matters, It's going to be a long time before I have any real concerns about projection, cutting through other instruments, overtones getting buried under other instruments, or how the "audience" is going to hear my kit. I am my only audience 99% of the time, and I'm usually playing at lower volumes in my basement. I mostly want my kit to sound good from the drivers seat.


Any advice is much appreciated. Thx


Sounds like you're doing everything pretty much right. But it's possible to get obsessed with tuning.

In your situation, I'd say just get the fundamental tone (the basic pitch) you want from each drum, making sure the lugs are relatively close in tension (none so loose they're falling out, or one much tighter than the rest).

Then, difficult as it seems, just ignore the tuning and play them for a while before you give it another try..

[Sjogras]

Edit: I checked the other toms!

8" - Batter, F, reso G, drum produces a G.

12" - Batter, A, reso B, drum produces an A. - Seems weird? Edit3: (I may have been entirely wrong here, need to check again tomorrow)

Edit2: Found this: http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?195170-Drum-Tuning-Notes-Pitches-Intervals

I must have been confused or something yesterday, my drums seem to follow the same characteristics as the ones in the pearl forum thread.

Size/Batter/Reso/Overall

8"/E/F/G

10"C/D/E

12"G/A/B

The floor toms aren't tuned the same way, I prefer to have the batters really low, but the resos higher, the 14" reso is E, and that note carries through even though the batter barely produces a tone. The 16" reso is B.

[Elvis]

Sjogras,

A drum, any drum, is more than just a head (or a pair of heads).
If you account for everything that makes up a drum, and figure out the note value for the frequency that those other parts are resonating at, I think you'll find the combined frequency's will equal the note your toms are singing at.
In other words, it may make better sense (in this case, anyway) to think of your toms as being tuned to a chord, rather than a note.


Elvis

[Sjogras]

Elvis,

Yes, I tried to find the note of each drum by tapping only the shell, but the mounts for the lugs were vibrating too much and I couldn't really hear any clear note. Is there a better way to distinguish the pitch of the shell?

I found that the higher overall note has something to do with the drum having two heads, without batter and reso tuned A on the 12", the drum produced a very clear A when hit lightly. I'll have to try tuning only the batter so I can hit it harder and see if it has any difference, more power should agitate the shell more. (I didn't want to damage the reso head)

[Elvis]

"Is there a better way to distinguish the pitch of the shell?"

Did you put the Chromatic Tuner inside the shell (heads off) and tap on the outside, holding the pickup for the tuner in the same area as you were tapping?
I find it interesting that the pitch apparently changes due to how hard you hit the heads.
Seems like it shouldn't make a difference.
...also, I would worry too much about ruining the reso head (unless its a snare side).
Mylar's a pretty tough material.


Elvis

[nickjd]

Tune both heads a minor 3rd lower than the overall pitch you want. Works every time. Even on kicks. Snares are slightly different.

[Sjogras]

Did you put the Chromatic Tuner inside the shell (heads off) and tap on the outside, holding the pickup for the tuner in the same area as you were tapping?

I never used a tuner, I tried to listen for a note. But I found it very hard.


I find it interesting that the pitch apparently changes due to how hard you hit the heads.
Seems like it shouldn't make a difference.

Well if say the batter is tuned lower than the reso a light hit would probably produce a lower note since you mostly just hear the batter.


Tune both heads a minor 3rd lower than the overall pitch you want. Works every time. Even on kicks. Snares are slightly different.

Is that 1.5 seminotes, like I wrote in post #513? Mine and apparently many other people's drums behave that way. And yea, I agree regarding the snare. I never tune for a desired overall pitch, I start by tuning the reso to a note, G or A mostly. Then just tune up the batter until the drum sounds good.

[nickjd]

C down to A is a minor 3rd.

[PeteN]

Just watched a sweet sound check vid of a custom Mapex Saturn on YouTube. I really like this guy's tuning. What do you guys think??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3NOP0CpzQ

[huskytool]

I use decent drums, decent heads, an Evans torque key and common sense. I see many people try to make this very complicated. Watch Bob Gatzen in this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ9Unab1OzU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[PeteN]

I use decent drums, decent heads, an Evans torque key and common sense. I see many people try to make this very complicated. Watch Bob Gatzen in this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ9Unab1OzU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I don't care for the torque key or the drum dial :-)

I do agree that people make it complicated and in reality it just takes lot's of practice, and patience.

[Sjogras]

Well, drum tuning is very complicated. Once I started realizing this and looking upon drum tuning as something complicated, it got a lot easier. :)

[PeteN]

What do tyou guys think of my Mapex Saturn rack tom tuning?

They are 10" and 12" rack toms, emperor batters and ambassador resos, recorded with my Zoom Q3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS7HyJ2-4QI

Thanks

[topgun2021]

Does this John Good "napkin trick" do anything?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl9wgXSfxew&feature=relmfu

I am dumbfounded.

[Sjogras]

Does this John Wood "napkin trick" do anything?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl9wgXSfxew&feature=relmfu

I am dumbfounded.

I think it's to seat the head, but I don't know if using a cloth is really any advantage. I find his tuning technique very weird too, tuning 2.5 full turns on one lug at a time... big no no for me but whatever floats his boat.

[Netz Ausg]

What do tyou guys think of my Mapex Saturn rack tom tuning?

They are 10" and 12" rack toms, emperor batters and ambassador resos, recorded with my Zoom Q3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS7HyJ2-4QI

Thanks

Sounds like the interval between batter/reso is different on each drum. You're getting a pronounced bend on the larger tom and a short flat note on the other. Definitely too low - needs to come up a way.

[topgun2021]

Sounds like the interval between batter/reso is different on each drum. You're getting a pronounced bend on the larger tom and a short flat note on the other. Definitely too low - needs to come up a way.

That is what I like to call an opinion.
\
also, it is demonstration, I doubt he was trying to match the intervals, but instead he meant to show the two different ones.

[Netz Ausg]

That is what I like to call an opinion.

I'm pretty sure he was asking for an opinion, so that's what I gave.

It's also not clear that it's a tuning method comparison, so I responded with an honest appraisal of how the tuning of the 2 drums (as a pair, not seperately) sounds to me.

So yeah, one bends, the other doesn't - I think they could speak more clearly with more authority at a higher tuning.

[PeteN]

Sounds like the interval between batter/reso is different on each drum. You're getting a pronounced bend on the larger tom and a short flat note on the other. Definitely too low - needs to come up a way.

Yeah I agree and fixed it last week via a new thread that I posted. http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88027 (http://http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88027)
The link will take you to a new topic under "heads" where I have a total of 3 vids with different turnings. Let me know what you guys think... Thanks!

[Sjogras]

I'm wondering here, how do people generally tune floor toms? For quite a while I've been enjoying a deep and low thud, which I achievied by tuning the reso quite high and the batter just a little bit above wrinkles. But I'm growing tired of the lack of resonance, I have to hit quite hard for them to open nicely. Very little tone, lots of attack.

So, I've been experimenting with higher tuning, i.e. E to G for a 14". With the heads one or two notes apart all I'm getting is Bwwaooom, so I thought, "well hey, both heads the same then!" but I'm still getting quite a bit of distortion (Bwwooum), even though the heads are evenly tuned, well, as good as I can do. Tuning the rack toms is no problem in terms of getting the heads even.

I guess what I'm going for is "Bouumm". As usual, I'm assuimg trial and error is the procedure here. But any help is much appreciated!

[steverok]

I guess what I'm going for is "Bouumm". As usual, I'm assuimg trial and error is the procedure here. But any help is much appreciated!

Trial and error is the only tuning method I know. Some toms tune up easy, and others take more work. I never tune the reso head the same or lower than the batter. Other than that, I know nothing other than good sound. Sorry I'm of no help at'all.

[AirborneSFC]

So I have been tuning by ear; I played brass for years and can pick out a note from a piano by ear.

That being said what are everyone's thoughts on products like Resotune and the Tunebot? Either seems great for fine tuning or int he case of Resotune maybe find other optimal pitches.

[tard]

So I have been tuning by ear; I played brass for years and can pick out a note from a piano by ear.

That being said what are everyone's thoughts on products like Resotune and the Tunebot? Either seems great for fine tuning or int he case of Resotune maybe find other optimal pitches.

Although I haven't had a chance to use one yet the tunebot seems to be getting good reviews but the resotune is to drums what strobe tuners are to pianos if you can afford $250 plus shipping to toss out on one. Personally I think any music store selling drums should have one considering the amount drums they have to tune plus its much easier to sell a kit that is in perfect tune rather than the quick so so tune they usually get just to get them on the floor for sale.

[IsaiahBenJamin]

More confusion: This might take some physics to explain but:

Why aren't toms all the same size just tuned differently?

[Birdman]

Acoustic deeper tones need physical "real estate" space to develop their longer waves. Can not do that in a 10" tom. And if you tighten a 14" to sound like a 10", you will learn the meaning of "choking" a drum. You maybe near the note, but the sound will be blunt and shallow. Toms are meant to have a singing quality and be somewhat or very throaty. Vienna Boys choir is not the best choice for "Swing Low Sweet Chariot". Physics.