Can you bounce it?

[bonhamdrummer123]

I have a question regarding technique, or lack there of in my case, when playing very fast doubles and bouncing the stick on the drum completely. I mean playing one stroke and not even moving hands or fingers really to make the second stroke. I guess you could call it a press roll, but I always think of a buzz roll when I here that and I am not talking about buzz rolls. These are clean and even relying all on the bounce of the stick. I was first wondering if this was good to use?? I mean obviously I want my open doubles to be as fast as possible but in the meantime I use the bounce for faster things. Also I can pretty much do it as fast as I need to on my right, but I cant bounce it for s*** on my left hand. I know my left hand sucks but it seems to me it is not a matter of my left hand being bad (if that was the case my bounces wouldn't be as bad as they are) I think and am asking if it is a problem with technique that can be easily fixed and repeated in order to get better. I ant get the bounce nearly as high, when I tighten my grip I cant bounce it at all, when I loosen my grip I feel like I have no power and I am about to lose the stick...maybe I need a more powerful initial stroke? Obviously its tough to answer without you guys seeing me, but if you have an idea where a problem like this might lie, feel free to please give me some advice, maybe some exercises......wow I did not expect to write all that!!!

[K.Howden]

In order to get good consistant, clean and powerful Doubles you need to use a "drop-catch" method. Using just Wrist and bounce is not going be able to get that result and the reason is that you need to have your secondary stroke the same volume if not louder than the first stroke and this isn't realistically possible based on the description of your Technique.

Watch carefully what the Fingers are doing in this Video, the guy in this clip applies it to singles but the motion is the same for your Double Stroke Roll: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM_QOSvJJSo

You can see that the Fingers are "thrown" out creating momentum in the Stick, you then "snap" your Fingers back to prepare for the next stroke. When you're doing this you should be able to feel the rebound of the Stick...it generates a lot of power and what essentially is happening is that you're focusing that energy of that rebound with the Finger motions.

Hope you're well and good luck with it,

Kev

[Mr. Compactness]

Wow that's one of the best demonstrations and economic ways to use that technique. Thanks.

[bonhamdrummer123]

In order to get good consistant, clean and powerful Doubles you need to use a "drop-catch" method. Using just Wrist and bounce is not going be able to get that result and the reason is that you need to have your secondary stroke the same volume if not louder than the first stroke and this isn't realistically possible based on the description of your Technique.

Watch carefully what the Fingers are doing in this Video, the guy in this clip applies it to singles but the motion is the same for your Double Stroke Roll: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM_QOSvJJSo

You can see that the Fingers are "thrown" out creating momentum in the Stick, you then "snap" your Fingers back to prepare for the next stroke. When you're doing this you should be able to feel the rebound of the Stick...it generates a lot of power and what essentially is happening is that you're focusing that energy of that rebound with the Finger motions.

Hope you're well and good luck with it,

Kev

I guess what I was trying to say is I cant get that initial bounce from my left hand and I dont know how to work on and improve that. And im kinda talking about what he is doing with his left hand at about 6:50 or so in that video on the snare drum. And I love that warm sound he has from his toms....but any advice, great video

[sciomako]

In order to get good consistant, clean and powerful Doubles you need to use a "drop-catch" method.

Hi K.Howden,

I'm a beginner. I've been practicing this open/close method on and off for a few months. At the moment, I found that beyond certain speed, my fingers couldn't keep up with the speed and I had to rely on rebound. Is that supposed to happen? Or is it just a matter of more practice to get the fingers to go faster?

[HumDrummer]

The answer is YES! You can and should bounce it. The 'drop-catch' method mentioned here and the std. power rolls both rely on bounce regarding 'double stroke rolls'.
It just takes lots of PRACTICE & concentration. It will come to you in time, like the first time you tried to whistle... Your lips flopped about until you started to 'feel' the method that worked.
As a beginner, I remember my frustration of watching good drummers do things that looked easy, but trying to replicate some of the intricate parts would drive me nuts (not to mention sound horrible). I've been playing off & on since the early 70's, and only wish I had the tools (Netflix videos, YouTube snippets, etc.) available back then. With the technology available today, all you really need to be good is 'Determination' and/or 'Inspiration' along with spending 50% of your time practicing those techniques that you find difficult. Oops, got a little off the point.
One of the best videos (for it's day) was Bobby Rock's "Metalmorphosis" where he explains to put the 'power' stroke of a roll on the 'second' beat. It seemed odd at the time, but I just kept going over & over until the 'feel' started to flow naturally.
Another important thing is to USE A PRACTICE PAD, it helps immeasurably! and your household & neighbors will appreciate it too. Hope this has helped.
Happy Playing!

[K.Howden]

To answer both 'Bonhamdrummer123' and 'sciomako' the one virtue that goes the farthest with Drumming or anything in life really is patience, so don't be worried about getting fast for the time being, make sure you practice it slow with a Metronome in the 60bpm region. Once you're comfortable with it and having it sounding even and clean increase the Metronome by 5bpm, if you get some sort of planned routine for this it will help, maybe set a goal to increase your speed by 10bpm every week or two weeks.

As regards the Left Hand, I play open handed but I still find my left hand is my weakest (and most other Drummers do) when it comes to leading Fills. First off, make sure you just practice leading with your left, the strength will eventually increase. A great excercise to make sure both your Hands are the same strength is to play the Open Close for one bar with the right Hand, then one bar with both in unison then one bar with the left, the back to the unison for a bar and repeat.

Hope you're both well and trust you will have this down if you just practice it over the long-term :)

Kev

[bonhamdrummer123]

yeah I also play open handed (not sure if I mentioned that) but its not about me not practicing its about not knowing how to practice bouncing it without changing my technique, but I am gonna try this open close so I will be spending the rest of my day on the practice pad with a metronome not leaving 60 bpm :)

[K.Howden]

Deepest apologies, I wasn't implying that you're not practicing I was just sharing how I practice it personally, sorry if it came across that way. The numbers (in terms of BPM and length set to achieve goals etc) aren't universal to everyone, it's just an exmaple of what I did. The last thing I want to do is come across as condescending as I know what it's like when learning new technique.

Just out of interest what is your practice routine like? I could do with some ideas for mine as I'm stuck at quite a dead-end at the moment.

Hope you're well my friend!

Kindest regards,

Kev

[bonhamdrummer123]

Oo no not at all were you seeming condescending. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that my problem lies in lack of knowledge on how to improve some things. And when I don't know how to practice something I tend to not work on it at all out of paranoia of developing bad habits. This open/close technique looks really good and I am going to learn it, although I still have some questions I get the basic idea and have my own take on how it should go.
Honestly I have always been stuck in a rut on how to practice everything I need to improve so my routine isn't great but it is usually like this:

10 min warmup hands, fingers, and feet
5 min singles 105 bpm switch to left half way through (I guess this is part of my warm up)
5 min singles 130 bpm, 5min left, 5 min right lead (I started slow but increase 2 bpm every week if it was comfortable)
Stick Control for about 45 min to and hour at like 80 bpm
The Weaker Side 30 min 80 bpm
all that is on the pad then I go to the set
Jam to some zep for a few songs until my arms and legs are warmed up
look through the drummers cookbook for something I like or practice a lick i want to learn and get that down (or try to)
then jam to Tommy Igoe Groove Essentials

[bonhamdrummer123]

Forgot to say I will probably cut out stick control and weaker side and replace it with open/close until I get it down. And yeah I dont care too much about speed, I am more of a coordination guy

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

Forgot to say I will probably cut out stick control and weaker side and replace it with open/close until I get it down. And yeah I dont care too much about speed, I am more of a coordination guy

I suggest looking at staying with The weaker Side. The reason is you took it on, and it's a year long program that really works wonders. In other words, you made that promise to yourself, so trust that it will work for you. The results are not just in developing your weaker side, which will so happen out of this, but you sticking with a particular routine, day in and day out. .

Out of doing the Weaker Side, I now know myself as someone who will find ways of doing my daily drills even when it's impossible, like when I am hiking in the mountains! On the attached picture, you can see my snare drum stand on the side of my pack, and of course I have my 12 inch pad in there as well.....it's just an opportunity to expand your commitment to your art, and keep a promise to yourself...I got my life out of doing the Weaker Side, and I would love to tell you more about it, PM me if you are interested.
https://www.box.net/shared/static/6rezd7qmbj.jpg
Casper

[JPW]

I suggest looking at staying with The weaker Side. The reason is you took it on, and it's a year long program that really works wonders. In other words, you made that promise to yourself, so trust that it will work for you. The results are not just in developing your weaker side, which will so happen out of this, but you sticking with a particular routine, day in and day out. .

Out of doing the Weaker Side, I now know myself as someone who will find ways of doing my daily drills even when it's impossible, like when I am hiking in the mountains! On the attached picture, you can see my snare drum stand on the side of my pack, and of course I have my 12 inch pad in there as well.....it's just an opportunity to expand your commitment to your art, and keep a promise to yourself...I got my life out of doing the Weaker Side, and I would love to tell you more about it, PM me if you are interested.
https://www.box.net/shared/static/6rezd7qmbj.jpg
Casper

BTW, In the Weaker Side it is said to be a follow-up book for when you have completed Stick Control. What does it actually mean in this this context to have "completed" it? =P Played through it once? Can blast trhough it @ 280bpm? Or have played like Famularo suggested 1 page per week?

[bonhamdrummer123]

I suggest looking at staying with The weaker Side. The reason is you took it on, and it's a year long program that really works wonders. In other words, you made that promise to yourself, so trust that it will work for you. The results are not just in developing your weaker side, which will so happen out of this, but you sticking with a particular routine, day in and day out. .

Out of doing the Weaker Side, I now know myself as someone who will find ways of doing my daily drills even when it's impossible, like when I am hiking in the mountains! On the attached picture, you can see my snare drum stand on the side of my pack, and of course I have my 12 inch pad in there as well.....it's just an opportunity to expand your commitment to your art, and keep a promise to yourself...I got my life out of doing the Weaker Side, and I would love to tell you more about it, PM me if you are interested.
https://www.box.net/shared/static/6rezd7qmbj.jpg
Casper

I completely understand the fact that it is a year long program but I was just thinking that if I really want to learn this new technique, which I do, I want to learn it first so I can apply that to stick control and the weaker side. I also know that the weaker side is a follow up book, but I decided to give them both a try at once because I felt after the time I put in with stick control, my technique feels good and I can use it for the weaker side that practice and check your PM

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

BTW, In the Weaker Side it is said to be a follow-up book for when you have completed Stick Control. What does it actually mean in this this context to have "completed" it? =P Played through it once? Can blast trhough it @ 280bpm? Or have played like Famularo suggested 1 page per week?

I think he means the one page per week method. But, in all honesty, if you're drawn to The Weaker Side, and have the free stroke down, then there is no reason to wait. Just go for it! What matters is your commitment.

Casper

[larryace]

Hiking trip checklist:


Water bottle...check
Backpack....check
Granola bars....check
Snare drum.....snare drum?
You are one dedicated hombre Casper my friend.

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

Hiking trip checklist:


Water bottle...check
Backpack....check
Granola bars....check
Snare drum.....snare drum?
You are one dedicated hombre Casper my friend.

You cracked me up!!
Yes, I am, and I LOVE it!
Casper

[intheruff]

On the attached picture, you can see my snare drum stand on the side of my pack, and of course I have my 12 inch pad in there as well.....it's just an opportunity to expand your commitment to your art, and keep a promise to yourself...I got my life out of doing the Weaker Side, and I would love to tell you more about it, PM me if you are interested.
https://www.box.net/shared/static/6rezd7qmbj.jpg
Casper

Oh no Casper... you mean I hike back into the wilderness for some quite and to connect with God and such, and there I might discover you banging on a snare drum in one of natures few undisturbed refuges? You wouldn't want to discover me tromping up your path...

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

Oh no Casper... you mean I hike back into the wilderness for some quite and to connect with God and such, and there I might discover you banging on a snare drum in one of natures few undisturbed refuges? You wouldn't want to discover me tromping up your path...

I only do low strokes after 10 PM, so the boids can get some shuteye.
C

[intheruff]

I only do low strokes after 10 PM, so the boids can get some shuteye.
C

Forget the boids, you best be concerned about the griz in my neighborhood... but hey... a snare back there?... only would city folk think of such. lol. How about just a stick an' an ol' hollow log instead... like a seasoned musician playing in a band, ya' gotta' know how to fit in where ya' are...

[bonhamdrummer123]

Can anyone point me to some videos where this technique is explained IN DEPTH because I can't seem to get it, or can someone just help explain it to me IN DEPTH....

[JPW]

I think he means the one page per week method. But, in all honesty, if you're drawn to The Weaker Side, and have the free stroke down, then there is no reason to wait. Just go for it! What matters is your commitment.

Casper

Hehe, ye thanks for the great suggestion. The Weaker Side looks nice but I already have a Famularo-Stone-based 3hour long hand technique routine. I'm not sure I need 30 mins more to do for a day. =P

[bonhamdrummer123]

Hehe, ye thanks for the great suggestion. The Weaker Side looks nice but I already have a Famularo-Stone-based 3hour long hand technique routine. I'm not sure I need 30 mins more to do for a day. =P

Ummmm....can I hear about this routine? Because I would love it I'm sure?