Drumming fashions

[Pollyanna]

A while ago I posted a link and a couple of people commented that it was 70s drumming. I never realised it. To me, I was just drumming and that's what came out.

I look at this site and there are so many people who use twin kick pedals it makes me wonder if one day single kick pedals will be thought of as old-fashioned in more and more genres. Most times I don't like double kicks because I like more space at the bottom end but that could be old thinking too.

I have no intention of becoming more modern, but it's interesting to see what goes on in drumming fashions.

What's do you think is in at the moment? What's out? What's on the way in and on the way out?

[dairyairman]

in:
custom drum kits (eg. sjc, truth, c&c)
virgin bass drums
single large rack tom mounted to left on a floor stand
more than one floor tom
cymbals mounted high and flat
double kick pedals (of course!)

out:
deep (long) rack toms
multiple rack toms mounted on bass drum
two bass drums

it kind of depends on the genre though. like in metal drumming the trends are completely different.

[larryace]

My opinion is that there's room for everybody. There will always be people who cling to the music they came up with. Bluegrass coexists peacefully with murder metal, like different rooms in the same house. That's the beauty of music.The world of fashion is much less forgiving methinks.

[keep it simple]

Good thread Polly, although double pedals are in right now, I think they've peaked and are on the way out soon. That depends very much on genre though. I use a double pedal but only for some fills & the occasional groove. I also tend to rely on the pedal to the detriment of my single pedal technique. Most unfortunately, because I have some leg disfunction due to a spinal tumor, I'll probably have to keep the damn thing. I used to play a double kick kit in the late 70's. I kinda miss that. If transport wasn't an issue, I'd have a double kick kit now. Mine was 24 x 20 and 20 x 20. Lots of bottom end flavour. I'm at my most intuitive when I play single pedal. I still do most of my double kick in groove stuff with a single pedal and it feels so much more organic due to slight ghosting (poor technique but kinda cool as well) Sorry, got a bit techniquey and off thread there.

Unfortunately, the trigger happy era is upon us. Like the continuous fart that it is, it'll soon run out of gas!

I see a taste for vintage style kits coming back. I like that. Also a taste for small & simple. I like that too.

Great to go against the grain too. I played small tom sizes and 20" kick with piccolo snare in rock during the early 80's. I was the only guy around doing that. Everyone else was into double 24's, single mounted 14 tom, 16 + 18 floors and a snare as deep as George Bush's love of the oil business! I still play the small sizes today, and now it's as popular as male grooming products (yuk)!

"you're worth it", "Take care" AAARGGHHHHHH!

[larryace]

Double pedals peaking and on their way out?
Man as much as I hope this is true, I doubt it. I think double pedal dominance will be around for at least another generation.
Next thing will be bass drum pedals that you can play with your hands, so you can clutter the music up even more. (My opinion, not meaning to diss anyone, I like what I like)
Things do go in circles though. It always comes back to whence it sprang....eventually.

[RollingStone000]

Isolation mounts, not knocking it, I'm just saying if it's not an extra snare stand (which I'm guilty of) it's iso mounts on cymbal or there own stands. To each there own. The toms mounted to a bass drum are becoming more of a rare find.

I'm also seeing more and more shallow rack toms, like a little too shallow for my taste.

Bass drums treated as laundry baskets. Unless you're looking for a specific sound (a clicky thud) I generally attribute it to inexperience. When I think of the quintessential bass drum sound, I always think of the openess of Bonham's kick on "When the Levee Breaks". THUNDEROUS!!!

Brushes, I'm afraid to say, I feel are going by the way side. Unless it's specifically for jazz, I rarely see people playing with brushes. Damn shame too, a lot of technique goes into playing a set of brushes well.

I'd have to agree with Larry on the double pedal thing. Metal and all of its incarnations is becoming more accepted and I don't think I've seen a metal drummer use a single kick unless there was another bass drum there. All of my friends who play drums set their singles aside ASAP and went double. And they sit there and keep asking me, "so when you are you getting a double pedal". All I can say is, "I'm way too stubborn to get a double pedal". Especially when you hear cats like Thomas Pridgen or Gerald Heyward who in my opinion has some of the best foot technique I've ever seen (I could be wrong, there are probably others through out time). But I'll let my foot fall off trying to attain that technique before I go double.

For us die hard single peddlers out there, below is a clip of Pridgen at Memphis Drum Shop. Pay attention to around 1:20. One foot baby!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHYHbJpGrwI

[mcbike]

in:
equipment
anything travis barker does
ridiculously deep kick drums 20"+
1 up 2 down
short toms & floor toms
black drum heads (wtf? so weird)
lacquered hardware
reinforcing rings
musical trends:
gospel chops (never even heard this word until a few years ago)
overplaying
click tracks (especially live, more and more bands are doing this now)
drummers incorporating loops

out:
equipment
hanging floor toms
fusion set ups 10, 12, 14 20
powertoms
piccolo's
roto-toms
large set ups
rack mounts (i used to see drummers with a 4 piece kit using those things)
wrapped finishes

musical trends:
swinging (so sad to see this dissapearing from rock and even BLUES stuff now)
simple fills
4 on the floor
dynamics

[Pollyanna]

Large kits generally seem to be popular - the double floors, rack toms, heaps of crash cymbals. It's almost like the scene is polarising; most people either seem to have a lot of gear or small kits - not so many mid-sized kits, eg. three mounted toms and a floor. Yes Dairy, definitely more double floors. Was that Danny Carey's doing?

Kick drums have long made good laundry baskets. I've dampened since the 70s. I agree that there's something special about a good, well-tuned kick drum played open, though.

Obviously open kicks can't work in high speed multi-pedal metal, which needs clean, compressed sounds to achieve the machine-gun feel. KIS, what makes you feel that double-kick pedals are on the way out? I mean, more and more non-metal guys (like you!) are using them.

One trend I like is having closed hats over to the right so a right-hander can groove open-handed without playing goofy-handed. If I wasn't a cheapskate and lugging-phobic I'd get the extra hats & stand.

McBike, I forgot to mention gospel chops - funk with Ian Paice fills :) When people first talked about "gospel drumming" I imagined simple country-style drumming played along to He's Got The Whole World In His Hands to accompany a bunch of religious black Americans wailing away in a church - lol

Deep rack toms. Does anyone remember the old octobans, popular in the 70s? I had a couple of roto-toms in the old days - very flexible and cool but the tone wasn't great. They probably deserved to go.

Looking at the trends, in the post-punk years drumming is once again creeping towards more complexity, more expensive gear and more setting up (eg. loops). The trends are all making music less accessible to kids who aren't from rich families. A bit like the prog scene in the 70s. Shame about the loss of swing/shuffle feels. You hear it nu-jazz occasionally.

Putting my Nostradamus hat on it seems to me that the way things are going in the next decade or so the scene will be ripe for another reductionist movement to grow from the slums and ghettos like funk and rap did last century.

I never used brushes in the old days and now I use them a lot, so that's a bit weird. I guess. But I never got into the pointy stiletto thing or any other fashion either ... T-shirts and jeans will always be in fashion to me, which is probably equivalent to my drumming style :)

[Thaard]

Who said your drumming reminded them of the 70's? Nerves of some people..

Drumming fashion today: Flat high toms, drumming without clothing(especially in the studio), heavy sticks, hitting hard and ugly caps, independance and doublebass. Ugh..

[Pollyanna]

Who said your drumming reminded them of the 70's? Nerves of some people..

Drumming fashion today: Flat high toms, drumming without clothing(especially in the studio), heavy sticks, hitting hard and ugly caps, independance and doublebass. Ugh..

LOL ... you're not the only one. I'm curious ... what is 70s drumming? What are its characteristics? Do you mean that it has a loose-ish organic feel?

[DrumEatDrum]

As someone who's worked on the drum retail side of things, yes, there are fashions, and always have been since the drum kit was invented.

Going back to the 1890-1910, the fashion was laying the marching bass drum on the floor, hooking up a pedal, and playing more than one drum at a time.

Around 1920, maybe a bit before, the fashion was sound effects all around the drum kit.

In the 1930's tunable toms became more important than sound effects.
Then hi-hats replaced low boys.
To the 1940s, the ride cymbal became more important.
As be-bop came into prominence, drums went from 28" bass drums down to 18"'s.

Of course, in the early 60s, the big fashion became a Ludwig drum set, in black oyster pearl, with the logo on the bass drum (prior to Ringo, logos were not stock items on a bass drum head, and only appeared on name artists kits).

Late 60's into the 70's became all about single headed toms, and double bass kits (granted double bass kits had been used by Louie Bellson for some time).

In the mid 80's, concert toms were suddenly passe, but power toms came the new rage.
The 2 racks, 2 floor tomes, with two bass drums because the popular set up for so many hair metal bands. Drum racks, and flashy colors were also highly fashionable.

In the late 80s, long lugs took over as the must have. The idea of suspended floor toms became the new must have as well.

In the the early 90's, long lugs went out of fashion very quickly, and thanks to Nirvana, the 4pc make a huge come back. Even drummers who were known for large kits all of a sudden just had one rack tom. Double bass drum kits almost disappeared from the mainstream.

Also in the 90's and into the early 2000's, laquer and wood grain kits were most popular. Then in the last few years, wraps in retro colors made a huge comeback.

And now the deep drums are out, and shallow drums are in, and everything that was old is now new again. A lot more double bass kits have made their way their way back out of the closet.

What I find funny is for years, hard rock and metal drummers wanted big, deep drums, with big heavy cymbals, but now the trend is smaller drums, and thinner cymbals. Most of the new models of cymbals these days are on the thin side.

As for double pedals, I don't think they'll go out of fashion. So many drummers who would never play a double bass groove still have a double pedal for the occasional fill or big song ending. Others may only use a single with their band, but have a double at home.

[dairyairman]

as far as playing goes, this is what i see

in:
playing really, really hard all the time
linear fills
crash riding a lot
double bass fills

out:
triplets, or any kind of swing feel
ghost notes
dynamics
using effects cymbals (except for metal players)
using the hats for anything except bashing (probably because the left foot is always on the left bass drum pedal)

[mcbike]

it seems like from what everybody is saying travis barker had a huge influence on drums in recent times. I know he wasn't the first to start using the huge ocdp cannon bass drums. In fact I saw him before he was in blink 182 with the aquabats, and also with suicide machines and used to play piccolo snares.

I remember seing ocdp kits before travis barker started using them, either way he definatley popularized the cannon kick drums, low flat toms, custom finishes, off-set lugs, multiple holes in the resonant head etc.

what other recent drummers have had an effect on drums? obviously all famous drummers have some effect, but not always to the point where something becomes a fad and other manufacturers start making kits in that style.

[volvoguy]

I do find it interesting to read on this forum how strong an effect (noose?) marketing has on the teenage crowd. There's a lot of "must have" junk. The large box stores really shape what the kids do.

Individuality drives all. Something's "cool and original" until everyone does it, and then suddenly the bubble bursts and then we're back to square one.

One thing that I do love about the current "fashion" is how "retro" is finally back in style. In the '90's, I had to custom/special order everything. Whereas nowadays, I can just get an existing shell pack.

-Ryan

[Naigewron]

I mean no offense to anyone, but I have to say it: There are a lot of posts in this thread that makes the posters sound like old men sitting on their front porch talking about the good old days, making it sound like everything from the old days was golden and everything now is rubbish. I'm having a hard time believing that every drummer in the 60's and 70's was an incredible player, with great swing feel, groove and dynamics. I'm guessing that the less skilled players and bands have long since been forgotten, along with trends and fads that came and went. It's just like when I remember my childhood... Every summer was sunny and warm, and every winter had deep snow, perfect for playing around in :-)

[ChipJohns]

The courage to be yourself and create the set that matches your style of playing. JoJo insists on playing his 4 piece, albeit, added to, set, while Steve Smith still insists on playing his (fusion setup) 3 rack toms (two still mounted on the kick!)

One of the biggest things I have seen since I came back after 12 years is having the extra snare hanging there by the Hi Hat. Used to be, only a few jazz artists did that. Now they're everywhere! (I do like that!)

Also, more and more people are playing simple four piece sets.

[ChipJohns]

Oh I forgot.

There are more female drummers than ever before

...YEA BABY...

You Rock Pollyanna..!

[volvoguy]

I mean no offense to anyone, but I have to say it: There are a lot of posts in this thread that makes the posters sound like old men sitting on their front porch talking about the good old days, making it sound like everything from the old days was golden and everything now is rubbish. I'm having a hard time believing that every drummer in the 60's and 70's was an incredible player, with great swing feel, groove and dynamics. I'm guessing that the less skilled players and bands have long since been forgotten, along with trends and fads that came and went. It's just like when I remember my childhood... Every summer was sunny and warm, and every winter had deep snow, perfect for playing around in :-)


You make it sound like this is a bad thing! :-P

-Ryan

[RollingStone000]

One of the biggest things I have seen since I came back after 12 years is having the extra snare hanging there by the Hi Hat. Used to be, only a few jazz artists did that. Now they're everywhere! (I do like that!)


That's something I did recently. Speaking for myself, it's sooo much fun having it there. For a little while there I was sitting there thinking "I'm kind of getting bored with what my left hand is doing" mainly working the snare and periodically the hi hat. But I've got one snare tuned high and my main tuned to a mid range and being able to throw the snares on and off on either or both of them; it's almost limitless now.

The gospel chops thing. If you ever get a chance to see Kick Snare Hat (and do so by the way) it all kind of started with cats spending hours "shedding" and then going to church on the weekends to show off your chops, maybe the newest fill you worked up or something. A lot of it is blistering fast rudiments all around the kit. The term "gospel chops" can be attributed to Gerald Force (sorry about the incorrect spelling) in my opinion. I believe he was the guy that went around and taped all of those videos you now see on youtube.

And regarding the playing hard thing. I remember watching a DC Live with Jay Weinberg and Bennie Rodgers and Weinberg was mentioning (when playing with his band) that he plays for about a half hour or so and pretty much leaves it all on stage so that by the end of the show he's pretty much wore out. I think that may be a result of the festival craze (which I can't stand).

And Naige, I'm 25 and I like sitting on the porch and reminiscing once in a while. It's akin to the "you don't know where you're going, until you know where you've been" train of thought. Give it a try man.

[Pollyanna]

Oh I forgot.

There are more female drummers than ever before

...YEA BABY...

You Rock Pollyanna..!

Thanks Chip :)

Actually, rocking is a problem. I'm rocking (or trying not to) while playing old jazz, blues and Motown standards. Old habits die hard. Or maybe I'm being innovative? :)

There are a few women hitting skins but there's a long way to go. If small kits become more fashionable it might appeal more. Once you start getting racks of stuff you move into heavy lugging territory.

I have to hand it to the developing metal boys of today without roadies - they're not afraid of hard work! I listen to them hammering away in neighbouring rehearsal rooms and thank my lucky stars that I don't have to go for it at 100 miles an hour nonstop for hours. After 5 minutes they'd be calling for a stretcher.

Naige, Dairyman might sound like an old guy on the porch to you but I really have noticed that nearly all the bands coming to our various local rehearsal rooms play really, really hard core. Back in my day ... (where's my walking frame!) very few bands played that fiercely. Personally, I'd like to see more dynamic variation but I ain't no spring chicken!

[Deathmetalconga]

A while ago I posted a link and a couple of people commented that it was 70s drumming. I never realised it. To me, I was just drumming and that's what came out.

I look at this site and there are so many people who use twin kick pedals it makes me wonder if one day single kick pedals will be thought of as old-fashioned in more and more genres. Most times I don't like double kicks because I like more space at the bottom end but that could be old thinking too.

I have no intention of becoming more modern, but it's interesting to see what goes on in drumming fashions.

What's do you think is in at the moment? What's out? What's on the way in and on the way out?

In general, people like the concept of a drummer more than the reality of a drummer.

No other musicians like double bass work and many of them will shoot the drummer a look of anguish if they hear it. It is an acquired taste. But drummers spend most of their time and effort learning to do something that no one else much wants: double pedal drumming.

What's in now: Shallow toms, deep bass drums, double bass, deep snares, very large rack toms and even larger floor toms. Drummers gravitate toward heavy metal and jazz, although these are the least popular genres with audiences.

What's out: traditional five piece 2 up 1 down arrangement.

[Mr. Pasquini]

What's out: traditional five piece 2 up 1 down arrangement.

Agreed, I use 2 up 1 down but I have offset toms. Nobody plays standard set in metal, I think there is one drummer in the local metal scene that does it and he's playing a pulse set. Most metal drummers go more extravagant even though they could easily belt out the same stuff with half the toms.

I feel like the fad now is having lots of things. Great drummers are far more visable. 20 years ago I doubt that people like JoJo or even Derek Roddy would have even been noticed, the only famous drummers around would be Jordison and that guy that used to play for nirvana (hehe). The internet has actually allowed for us to see these trends, if I didn't get to come on here and see wild setups then I never would have known there were more than two or three setups.

Double bass is really trendy for DRUMMERS but it's only particularly prominent in metal. Eat your hearts out if you hate double bass; it's not my problem. I use it, I like it, if I play blues I don't use it and I don't like it. I use the pedal out of necessity.
I don't like this whole one up two down trend way down low with the super high cymbals. To what end do people set up like this?

[DrumEatDrum]

In general, people like the concept of a drummer more than the reality of a drummer.
Very true!

No other musicians like double bass work and many of them will shoot the drummer a look of anguish if they hear it. It is an acquired taste. But drummers spend most of their time and effort learning to do something that no one else much wants: double pedal drumming.

Eh....not true at all. Depends on musical style. I was once in a prog band and I had to insist we take out so much of the double bass parts, because I wanted more variety. A few years later, the band that got me oh so close to being signed, the ad clearly said "must play double bass".

In the hard rock and metal world, in the 70's only a few bands used double bass, and it was very here and there. In the 80's it became more prominent, but the level of playing wasn't as developed, and plenty of bands who had double bass kits never used the 2nd bass drum. Now, there are millions of bands who feature mind boggling levels of double bass that wasn't even conceivable 20 years ago that are successful on one level or another.




What's out: traditional five piece 2 up 1 down arrangement.
This is so true. Though it's what I tend to play (granted, I use 10, 12 on a stand with a 16 floor, rather than the standard 12, 13, 16).

[DrumEatDrum]

I feel like the fad now is having lots of things. Great drummers are far more visable. 20 years ago I doubt that people like JoJo or even Derek Roddy would have even been noticed, the only famous drummers around would be Jordison and that guy that used to play for nirvana (hehe). The internet has actually allowed for us to see these trends, if I didn't get to come on here and see wild setups then I never would have known there were more than two or three setups.


You touched on another point.

While I see a fad of shallower toms and thinner cymbals right now, over all, right now, more than ever, it's anything goes.

As you said, the internet has allowed many drummers/bands/artists to get noticed who might not have in the past. And from this comes a much wider variation of drummers and drum kits.

[Pollyanna]

Yeah, prog and metal are merging. The difference seems to be mostly in how complex the music is.

The Yes-style pretty prog seems to be dwindling away and being replaced by metal prog complete with the machine gun bottom end. I always liked the old pretty prog - Court of the Crimson King, Close to the Edge. My boring old fartdom seems to know no bounds!

In local rehearsal studios there's nowhere near as much double pedalling in the metal bands I hear with great ease through the double brick walls as on the web. Lots of riding crash cymbals, though.

I suspect Australia hasn't yet caught up with the multi-pedal ubiquity trend but almost everything in the US eventually makes its way out here.

However, I don't think metal can go any further. It's already as metal as metal can be - as fast, loud, hardcore, aggressive, distorted and dark as as possible. A band like Black Sabbath, which was considered metal in the 70s and is already more aggro than I like sounds like The Carpenters as compared with current metal groups. So if it can't go further in traditional metal directions, where can it go?

On the other side of the coin, what's with the retro 4-piece thing? Are the people using them all jazzers?

[larryace]

I just hope that awful canned handclap backbeat dies a quick and eternal death. It makes me want to throw up everytime I hear it.

[Ian Williams]

In general, people like the concept of a drummer more than the reality of a drummer.

No other musicians like double bass work and many of them will shoot the drummer a look of anguish if they hear it. It is an acquired taste. But drummers spend most of their time and effort learning to do something that no one else much wants: double pedal drumming.

What's in now: Shallow toms, deep bass drums, double bass, deep snares, very large rack toms and even larger floor toms. Drummers gravitate toward heavy metal and jazz, although these are the least popular genres with audiences.

What's out: traditional five piece 2 up 1 down arrangement.

You are right.
At the present We tend to move so forward into drumming innovation (nothing wrong with it), but leaving behind the basic practices and the traditional side of it (foundation). Regarding arrangements, I really like 5-piece (2 up / 1 down, 1 up / 2 down) even 4-piece - 1 up 1 down, single pedal.
In my opinion, double bass drum it's just an amazing effect - that's all it is.

Cheers,

[Deathmetalconga]

You are right.
At the present We tend to move so forward into drumming innovation (nothing wrong with it), but leaving behind the basic practices and the traditional side of it (foundation). Regarding arrangements, I really like 5-piece (2 up / 1 down, 1 up / 2 down) even 4-piece - 1 up 1 down, single pedal.
In my opinion, double bass drum it's just an amazing effect - that's all it is.

Cheers,

I suspect this is true for other instruments. Musicians tend to explore and refine techniques as much as they can, even though what they perform or record may reflect little of that.

[Pollyanna]

KIS, I didn't expect you to have such a flash kit! Your cymbals look interesting - what are their names and what are their voices like?

Ha - you're clearly neat freak :) and you love beauty.

I didn't comment on the monster kit because it looks like upstairs in Drum City on Parramatta Road, only bigger. I can't get my head around it, not the bank balance required.

[DrumEatDrum]

However, I don't think metal can go any further. It's already as metal as metal can be - as fast, loud, hardcore, aggressive, distorted and dark as as possible. A band like Black Sabbath, which was considered metal in the 70s and is already more aggro than I like sounds like The Carpenters as compared with current metal groups. So if it can't go further in traditional metal directions, where can it go?


Haha! yeah, it's weird, when you talk to teens these days about metal, and they'll say "Black Sabbath? There is nothing metal about Black Sabbath, they're not even heavy.."

Which is pretty much why I've lost faith in most American metal bands. All they seem to want to do is say who can play faster, more brutal or "more something" than the next band, all while ignoring any concept of dynamics, melodic ideas, or ability to sing.

I much prefer bands out of Europe these days who remember that hard rock and metal still can have melody, dynamics, and don't need double bass playing super fast on every song.

[zephead19]

Haha! yeah, it's weird, when you talk to teens these days about metal, and they'll say "Black Sabbath? There is nothing metal about Black Sabbath, they're not even heavy.."

Which is pretty much why I've lost faith in most American metal bands. All they seem to want to do is say who can play faster, more brutal or "more something" than the next band, all while ignoring any concept of dynamics, melodic ideas, or ability to sing.

I much prefer bands out of Europe these days who remember that hard rock and metal still can have melody, dynamics, and don't need double bass playing super fast on every song.

I very much agree with you that metal and even rock in general has taken a dive for the worse in recent years. I like the older stuff where the wicked fast double bass wasnt needed in every song, actually you rarely even heard it. To be honest i would rather play anything with my one pedal than being to play wicked fast with two. However, I guess I am falling prey to the trend as my band is begging me now to get a double pedal and my defenses and comebacks of reasons why I shouldnt get myself a double pedal are fading fast.

[masonni]

The 1 up 2 down kit has been the "it" thing the last 2 or so.
26" Bass Drums were a big thing the last 2 years also, but I am starting to see people go back to 22"
Right before that V-Drums has a boom.

Right now most of the Drummers I see playing out in LA are ALL playing a 4pc kit.
12" 16" 22" Hats, Ride, Two Crashs and a single pedal.

Vintage Brands are a HUGE thing right now.
More and more Drummers are playing Gretsch and Ludwig.
Lots of people are shying away from Pearl, Tama and Yamaha.
Even Leedy is trying to make a come back.

[aydee]

There is fashion and there is evolution.
I too find it a little strange that almost everyone feels compelled to buy into this 1 up- real flat and really low, 2 down, all flat cymbals, double pedal thing. Regardless of the kind of music they play, or how tall or short they might be, or they way in which they play their cymbals. I does smack of drum fashionista pressure. If you dont fit into a size 0, you aren't attractive..

On the evolutionary scale, I'd say that we've moved way forward. They are exceptions to the rule but I'd say the right foot, and the left hand, and the left foot today are doing things that they wouldn't ever have dreamt of back in the 70s.

...

[Pollyanna]

I feel similarly but I'm also acutely aware of the kinds of things Dad said (and still says) about music I like - lack of melody etc.

I say, "Whaddya mean lack of melody? They are GREAT melodies!".

"Pah! It's just noise!"

"Noise? Dad, you don't understand music"

"I know what I like and that's just noise"

To him, anything with electric guitar is noise. The Beatles are noise. For us, machine gun kicks sound like noise. Yet lots of young guys dig it so they must be picking up on something that we're not getting.

My nephew played me some hardcore techno and it had that same extremity.

I'm thinking, "Wow, there must be a LOT of anger in today's youth to dig this" or maybe that young people are desensitised and can't feel subtlety ... like the way I've seen kids think old Dracula movies are a yawn because the violence is suggested rather than explicit.

Yet I knew a death metalhead at an old job who played in a metal band. He loved Rammstein and its Cookie Monster death growls and he was as nice a guy as you could ever meet.

I guess it just depends on what you were brought up with. One day those guys will be griping about new music and won't understand why their kids think today's US metal music is lame.

But I can't imagine what those kids will be listening to. Beethoven? Benny Goodman? Bob Dylan? It has to go the other way because modern metal has taken it to the max.

Vintage Brands are a HUGE thing right now. More and more Drummers are playing Gretsch and Ludwig. Lots of people are shying away from Pearl, Tama and Yamaha.

Nick, what do you think the story is behind that?

[keep it simple]

. KIS, what makes you feel that double-kick pedals are on the way out? I mean, more and more non-metal guys (like you!) are using them.

If it wasn't for my spinal tumor, I'd get rid of it tomorrow. Single is best all round unless you're going to be playing metal or some complicated stuff. I would have a 2 kick drum setup though for some stuff. Kicks of different sizes are great. I used to have a 20" as my main kick. The kit went out as a single kick kit most of the time. For some stuff I'd then bolt on the 24".

[keep it simple]

KIS, I didn't expect you to have such a flash kit! Your cymbals look interesting - what are their names and what are their voices like?

Ha - you're clearly neat freak :) and you love beauty.


Not flash, very personal, & yes I like order but not necessarily neatness. The cymbals are all chosen for their specific characters. They all do a job. I use every one of them frequently. Do you really want me to list them & what they sound like? Maybe easier with a sound clip.

[dairyairman]

Naige, Dairyman might sound like an old guy on the porch to you but I really have noticed that nearly all the bands coming to our various local rehearsal rooms play really, really hard core. Back in my day ... (where's my walking frame!) very few bands played that fiercely. Personally, I'd like to see more dynamic variation but I ain't no spring chicken!


i like fierce playing! i play fiercely! what i don't like is playing like that *all* the time. i think that's boring and tedious. i'm not saying all modern music is like that, but i see it a lot, especially in the other local bands we share the stage with. it seems like a lot of these guys have the volume and intensity turned up to 11 all the time. i can only take so much of that.

as far as trends go, there are some good ones. i was away from drumming for quite a few years, but when i got back into it i was amazed by the high quality of even the cheaper drum kits. i remember having a lot of trouble with gear breaking and wearing out quickly. the new stuff is much better overall, in my opinion.

there are also a lot more choices today than there used to be. when i was starting out you could get a ludwig kit (my choice) or a slingerland, and maybe a couple others and that was it. it's the same with cymbals. zildjian and paiste were pretty much the only decent choices, which was fine because they were both great. today there are all kinds of high quality cymbals from a bunch of different companies. zildjian and paiste are still great. life is good!

also when i got back into drumming i was impressed by the high standard of drumming skill. when i was starting out, no one played like danny carey or chris adler. what they and others like them are doing today was inconceivable back then. it's the same with the gospel chops drummers. no one could play like that back then. i suppose you could argue that those styles hadn't been invented yet, but even so, my hat is off to those drummers and others who have raised the bar over the years.

[Pollyanna]

I'm hearing you,, Dairy. Have you posted your playing here? Like to hear your stuff sometimes. I have an idea of what you'd play like from your posts and it would be good to see if my guess is close :)

KIS, about that tumour. I take it that it's benign?? It sucks when your body won't play ball.

And yep, I'm be interested to hear a sound clip of your cymbals.

Single is preferable to my ear most of the time too. Dairy's thoughts in that first paragraph about double kick beat-yer-brains-in new metal are exactly the same as mine. A lot of the young uns obviously hear it differently.

Funny how things have gone, with rock being less sensitive than jazz, punk less than rock and now metal less than punk. For some reason music is becoming progressively more insensitive. I feel like it has something to do with the rise of technology, as though humans are becoming more machinelike - less flexible and more precise - and our musical tastes are reflecting that?

[keep it simple]

KIS, about that tumour. I take it that it's benign?? It sucks when your body won't play ball.

And yep, I'm be interested to hear a sound clip of your cymbals.

Yes, it's benign. I wouldn't be typing this right now if it was malignant. It will eventually paralyze my legs but I'm hoping that's a long way off. Lap of the gods stuff. It's inoperable. I've had it for 4 years and the effects get worse each year, hence the double pedal crutch, both figuratively & literally.

A friend has borrowed my Zoom. When I get it back, I'll record some simple cymbal hits for you.

[larryace]

Music is a reflection of society and it's attitudes

[Pollyanna]

Yes, it's benign. I wouldn't be typing this right now if it was malignant. It will eventually paralyze my legs but I'm hoping that's a long way off. Lap of the gods stuff. It's inoperable. I've had it for 4 years and the effects get worse each year, hence the double pedal crutch, both figuratively & literally.

A friend has borrowed my Zoom. When I get it back, I'll record some simple cymbal hits for you.

OMG KIS, that's a spinout. Very sorry to hear it :( It's crazy the things that can go wrong with our bods.

Yep bring on those tasty cymbals!

[dairyairman]

I'm hearing you,, Dairy. Have you posted your playing here? Like to hear your stuff sometimes. I have an idea of what you'd play like from your posts and it would be good to see if my guess is close :)


haha! so you have pre-conceived ideas eh? i have not posted any playing here, but i'll give you some samples. i hope i don't disappoint you. i'm not that good.

here's an original song that i'm fairly proud of because i think it shows a good range of dynamics. that's mostly my doing. the drummer i replaced didn't play it with any dynamics. all these recordings are from band practice and they're a little rough, so forgive me!

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6959479

just so no one thinks i'm a tippy tappy old fart drummer, here's another original song in a punk style, but still with some dynamics:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6959459

and here's a blues cover song "pride and joy", which you may recognize and perhaps play in your own band.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8087459

and finally, here's a jazz playalong to a tommy igoe "jazz shuffle" track:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=5582552

I hope that gives you a good idea of what i'm about. i'm nothing special but i have fun!

i agree with you that a lot of modern music lacks sensitivity, but there's a lot of really good modern music out there too, in all genres. you just have to turn over some stones to find it!

[keep it simple]

OMG KIS, that's a spinout. Very sorry to hear it :( It's crazy the things that can go wrong with our bods.

Yep bring on those tasty cymbals!
I'm fine with it. When it first appeared, I was told I would be in a chair within 18 months and I couldn't lift anything heavier than a bag of sugar. On top of that, the tumor affected vital signal paths to my heart and, to date, it's stopped seven times. Big whoops! I've been opened up more times than I care to mention & my heart still stalls from time to time. That started 4 years ago. Since then I've taken up drumming again, built a house that's impossible to convert to ground floor living, landscaped 2 acres of grounds (yes, both on my own with occasional labour help) and started a factory business 120 miles from my house. That's the KIS way of putting 1 finger up at the whole deal. I've been known to finish the last few tracks in a set using my left foot for kick because the right one's given up for the night! Try that, not easy at short notice. Life's good & I get on with it. I have good days and bad. Thankfully, mostly good. Sorry for the hijack guys.

[keep it simple]

i'm not that good.


WRONG! Me likey a lot. Good vocalist & the guitarist managed to resist being Santana mkII on the quiditch track.

[dairyairman]

WRONG! Me likey a lot. Good vocalist & the guitarist managed to resist being Santana mkII on the quiditch track.

thanks man! our guitarist loves to show off, but he holds himself in check on quidditch.

best of luck to you with your spinal situation and all that. i hope you manage to keep playing for a long, long time!

[Mr. Pasquini]

The Yes-style pretty prog seems to be dwindling away and being replaced by metal prog complete with the machine gun bottom end. I always liked the old pretty prog - Court of the Crimson King, Close to the Edge. My boring old fartdom seems to know no bounds!

However, I don't think metal can go any further. It's already as metal as metal can be - as fast, loud, hardcore, aggressive, distorted and dark as as possible. A band like Black Sabbath, which was considered metal in the 70s and is already more aggro than I like sounds like The Carpenters as compared with current metal groups. So if it can't go further in traditional metal directions, where can it go?


Well, never down King Crimson, more metal bands than you think take something from them, especially in the prog scene. Robert Fripp has more power than you may realize.

I disagree about metal not being able to go any further, there's only a few bands that are really at that top edge of what ispossible. It's not realistic for most bands to be the next Necrophagist, when it gets to that point, metal may have finished it's tenure. There's always something new happening there, from the outside it could really look that way.

You also have to realize that the metal scene has died at least twice already, the slump after death metal came out in the early 90s, and now the style is starting to recover from the Metalcore breakdown. More people are back to the more metal and less hardcore influenced roots. Well, maybe that last one isn't true, but at least the NC scene has started to get slightly more metal support.

[Mr. Pasquini]

I'm thinking, "Wow, there must be a LOT of anger in today's youth to dig this" or maybe that young people are desensitised and can't feel subtlety ... like the way I've seen kids think old Dracula movies are a yawn because the violence is suggested rather than explicit.

Yet I knew a death metalhead at an old job who played in a metal band. He loved Rammstein and its Cookie Monster death growls and he was as nice a guy as you could ever meet.

I really think that's where a lot of people go wrong. Almost everyone I've met in the metal community around here are top notch fellows, many of whom are in their 30s+. I'm 19 and I'm one of the youngest people around.

I feel like I'm getting too defensive, though. You seem like you're making a pretty good effort to not look down on metalheads; I for one appreciate that. I get pretty sick of people making a lot of rash assumptions.

Think about it this way:
Metal heads per say may use double bass every song
Hardcore bands use breakdowns every song
Rock players use 4/4 rock beat in every song
Swing players use a similar ride pattern on most songs
Punk players use a skank beat in almost every song
Jazzers use an awkward accented triplet feel in every song

There's plenty of things to complain about that aren't double bass. These are all generalizations that people who don't listen to a genre very much may believe to be truth; though all of these can be debunked as fiction.

[RollingStone000]

In regards to metal, I'm noticing a few of the larger bands going "softer". Well, not necessarily softer, but they're focusing more on melodies and harmonies more than trying to figure out and play the newest sweep across the neck or applying some hybrid rudiment to the double bass at a lightning fast speed.

Mudvayne for example have been getting consistently softer over their last few albums, although I liked their earlier stuff better. Mastodon, who you could consider as a prog thrash metal band (with their early albums) has gotten more song oriented especially on their recent Crack the Skye album which you could consider a hard rock prog sort sound, the speed and the screaming have become very tasteful. And then Between the Buried and Me, which exemplify prog metal in my opinion have gotten considerably song oriented on their recent album. I mean these guys would do 10-12 minute long songs with about 40 different changes through out the whole damn thing and their singer going off on elongated death growls. I mean the technical prowess those guys have is jaw dropping, but it wasn't musical in my opinion. Their recent stuff is a far departure from what they've done in the past.

[Mr. Pasquini]

Mastodon, who you could consider as a prog thrash metal band (with their early albums) has gotten more song oriented especially on their recent Crack the Skye album which you could consider a hard rock prog sort sound, the speed and the screaming have become very tasteful.


My favorite band and that is a VERY tasteful album, but I feel that they are the exception, not the rule. They have been always been getting less aggressive, but they don't lose their style at all. If you look to bands like (please, feel free to laugh at names) Dying Fetus, Nile, Behemoth, Megadeth, Lamb of God and The Faceless; all of these bands are becoming heavier and faster, but also more complicated. This seems to be the trend in death and thrash metal. Mastodon was always a progressive metal act, and they have always been changing. Melody may be more emphasized, but the application is also changing.

[RollingStone000]

My favorite band and that is a VERY tasteful album, but I feel that they are the exception, not the rule.

Good point, as much as I enjoy the sounds they got off of that, I have a feeling it's a rarity.

I'm fairly oblivious to most of those bands except Lamb of God (metal ain't really my thang, my friends are into it so I get to hear their discussions). But I heard LOG's recent one and all I could think was, "God please turn it off!!!", which is what you want if your a fan of the metal.

[Mr. Pasquini]

I'm fairly oblivious to most of those bands except Lamb of God (metal ain't really my thang, my friends are into it so I get to hear their discussions). But I heard LOG's recent one and all I could think was, "God please turn it off!!!", which is what you want if your a fan of the metal.

Well, I feel kind of bad that I used "Wrath" as an example, I wasn't personally a big fan of that album. It was highly aggressive, but didn't have as good of a feel as their older albums. They did still use a bit more melody and yet the album is very heavy.

[DrumEatDrum]

Vintage Brands are a HUGE thing right now.
More and more Drummers are playing Gretsch and Ludwig.
Lots of people are shying away from Pearl, Tama and Yamaha.
Even Leedy is trying to make a come back.


Nick, what do you think the story is behind that?

I wonder if some people associate Pearl, Tama and Yamaha with the 80's and early 90's when you would turn on MTV and that's all you would see, and going "retro" is way to distinguish one self from the same ole' thing.

[aydee]

I'm fine with it. When it first appeared, I was told I would be in a chair within 18 months and I couldn't lift anything heavier than a bag of sugar. On top of that, the tumor affected vital signal paths to my heart and, to date, it's stopped seven times. Big whoops! I've been opened up more times than I care to mention & my heart still stalls from time to time. That started 4 years ago. Since then I've taken up drumming again, built a house that's impossible to convert to ground floor living, landscaped 2 acres of grounds (yes, both on my own with occasional labour help) and started a factory business 120 miles from my house. That's the KIS way of putting 1 finger up at the whole deal. I've been known to finish the last few tracks in a set using my left foot for kick because the right one's given up for the night! Try that, not easy at short notice. Life's good & I get on with it. I have good days and bad. Thankfully, mostly good. Sorry for the hijack guys.

Aaha! I knew I was right about the whole role model thing.

[keep it simple]

Aaha! I knew I was right about the whole role model thing.
Thanks Aydee, but to some extent, I've been the architect of my own destiny. Multiple excesses, work stress largely due to misguided material greed, smoking, you get the picture. I'm super strong in some areas and pitifully weak in others. No role model, I can assure you.

[RhythmDrums]

Big rack toms are definitely out, because i see most people playing with 10 12 toms. I also see alot of people putting their toms in a triangle shape with their snare now.
Multiple snares are also very popular with the 2nd snare put left of the hihat.

[keep it simple]

Big rack toms are definitely out, because i see most people playing with 10 12 toms. I also see alot of people putting their toms in a triangle shape with their snare now.
Multiple snares are also very popular with the 2nd snare put left of the hihat.
100% correct. I've always used small toms ever since the late 70's when super big power toms were in vogue. I use 8, 10, 12, 14. I've seen these trends go in & out of fashion. Double 24 or 26 kicks with single 14 tom in the middle & 16 + 18 floors will come back in. Everything comes round for a second or third time eventually.

[Skitch]

A while ago I posted a link and a couple of people commented that it was 70s drumming. I never realised it. To me, I was just drumming and that's what came out.

I look at this site and there are so many people who use twin kick pedals it makes me wonder if one day single kick pedals will be thought of as old-fashioned in more and more genres. Most times I don't like double kicks because I like more space at the bottom end but that could be old thinking too.

I have no intention of becoming more modern, but it's interesting to see what goes on in drumming fashions.

What's do you think is in at the moment? What's out? What's on the way in and on the way out?

In:

Anything Bonham as there is glut of Bonham-esque kits out there. This fad will soon be over and everyone will realize that a particular kit will not make them into John Bonham.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
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[Pollyanna]

Good grief KIS! I didn't realise. Not easy to keep a beat when your ticker's stopped! Ok, so you've been a d***head and you're paying for it now - lots of people do that without such sever repercussions.

Aydee's right - you're a role model! When / if my multiple misdemeanours catch up with me I'll remember your attitude. Better to wear out than rust out, eh?

Thanks for the explanation. DrumEatDrum, re: vintage more popular now than Tama and Yammies etc.

Ha! Dairy, that's not miles from what I'd play if I played in your band, just that I play fewer fills - lol. It's hard to get real context of what a drummer sounds like with those little recorders at band practice. They seem to push the drums further up in the mix than they actually were in the room. I find that if I bring the very tops and bass down heaps, the guitars, keys and vocs come up in the mix closer to their proper place, even if it doesn't do the bassist any favours.

Sweet groove in the the Tommy Igoe tune and the better quality recording brought out the tasty cymbals and snare.

[Dedworx]

as far as playing goes, this is what i see

in:
playing really, really hard all the time
linear fills
crash riding a lot
double bass fills

out:
triplets, or any kind of swing feel
ghost notes
dynamics
using effects cymbals (except for metal players)
using the hats for anything except bashing (probably because the left foot is always on the left bass drum pedal)

seems like your right on the money with that.

to continue your predictions but
not to be taken seriously-

trends of the future:

out:
playing really, really hard all the time
linear fills
crash riding a lot
double bass fills

in:
two drummers per band, = quad bass drum = quad bass drum fills.
drummers start standing up to play harder. finger technique is forgotten, replaced by a new downward "punching" technique.
linear fills evolve into a new style called "linear" only played and cared about by drummers.
the ceasing in production of any cymbal other than a crash ride.
the release and popularization of the 18" crash ride hi hat
the removal of the hi hat pedal, who has time with all the filling?

[keep it simple]

Good grief KIS! I didn't realise. Not easy to keep a beat when your ticker's stopped! Ok, so you've been a d***head and you're paying for it now - lots of people do that without such sever repercussions.

Aydee's right - you're a role model! When / if my multiple misdemeanours catch up with me I'll remember your attitude. Better to wear out than rust out, eh?
.
Really, I'm in better condition than you think. The ticker's never stopped during a gig, just the odd backfire! And yes, wearing yourself out is a great way of keeping healthy. Sitting in a corner and letting it consume you is a sure way to end it all. Unfortunately, that's what most people do. End of hijack.

[dairyairman]

seems like your right on the money with that.

to continue your predictions but
not to be taken seriously-



that's funny!

but really, i like some if the current trends. i like the smaller drum kits that are popular (1 up, 1 down) i think the custom kits look cool. i like the "retro" kits that are currently fashionable. i like (and play myself) double pedals but i hate straight 16ths all the way through a song.

[larryace]

All this is my opinion, so it really doesn't mean much, but.......I don't understand the Bonham kit copiers.....First off, you're not going to be another JB, and secondly, they're sacrificing their own individuality by trying to emulate something that probably should remain as is. At best they come off as wannabes. Be yourself, whatever that is, that will always be in fashion.

[Neil]

Well know matter what happens with fashion in drums, I'll still be behind my kit fluffing my way through Van Halens Jump. :) These things change as the new generation comes through (I'm only 26 so not an old man) they've grown up listening/watching Blink 182, Greenday or whoever and that their influence so they make their setup mimic those guys.

Everything has it's day and no doubt will have another go, just look at the fashion world, couple of summers ago the in thing was 60's style clothing, then it was brightly coloured wellingtons now we've gone all 90's grunge and plaid shirts are back in. Nirvana, Mudhoney and the Pixies will be at the top of the charts again soon.

[RollingStone000]

I got to thinking about the smaller toms and it could be a matter of practicality. If you take into consideration shell construction, i.e. DW, you can get a lower fundamental shell pitch with the way they make their X-shells or the VLT stuff than the standard horizontal process. And hauling around around 10" and 12" toms are easier than 12" and 14" or whatever.

Regarding large hats though, I'm liking it... to a certain degree. I got to play a set of 16" K light hats a little while ago, and damn, great warmth. And guys like Pridgen are popularizing 18" hats (2 crashes). Although I think there is a limit to how big you can realistically go. I recall reading and article with Ronnie Vannucci Jr. of the Killers. During the recording of their recent album he was using 20" even 22" rides for hats. However he had a problem getting a warm enough '"chic" sound so he sang into a mic as well. Then there's the practicality of having to play them live which unless you're using a remote setup, would be pretty uncomfortable.

And I definitely agree on the triplets, not enough of them now a days. I remember one of my friend's uncles sat down behind my kit and started playing double strokes around the kit and then went into all different combinations of triplets and my jaw hit the ground. He started slow and then built it up to some ridiculous speed and slowed it down again. Then turned to me and said, "kit sounds good". All I could think was it sounds a hell of a lot better with you behind it.

[BassDriver]

hanging floor toms
fusion set ups 10, 12, 14 20
NO...NO...NO...

two drummers per band, = quad bass drum = quad bass drum fills.
drummers start standing up to play harder. finger technique is forgotten, replaced by a new downward "punching" technique.
linear fills evolve into a new style called "linear" only played and cared about by drummers.
the ceasing in production of any cymbal other than a crash ride.
the release and popularization of the 18" crash ride hi hat
the removal of the hi hat pedal, who has time with all the filling?
...NO...NO...NO...

triplets, or any kind of swing feel
ghost notes
dynamics
using effects cymbals (except for metal players)
using the hats for anything except bashing (probably because the left foot is always on the left bass drum pedal)
...NO...NO...NO...


What is happening to the world?!?!?!?!?!?!............

.......even as a gen Y, I still think that we need dynamics and triplets and use the hi-hat for grooving.

...and I have a hanging floor tom, which makes me still feel proud to have one cause it looks so awesome...

I would instead make a list of things that have to go and things that shouldn't go or need be added "in".

Needs to go:


S***ty tom angles!
Extra deep toms (most notably power toms)
Snare drum sound that is only snare and no tone (for some reason gaining popularity in mainstream music)
The money beat
Repetiveness
Overdrumming
Two hi-hats (seriously hasn't anyone heard of drop clutches or the cobra clutch)
Toms that sound like buckets
Electronic, non-organic, over-clicky kick drum sound (kick drums gotta to have some balls!)


Needs to be in:


Triplets and other tuplets, they make especially good fills (see Bonham)
SWING!
Double-kick (you open up your opportunities as session drummer with skill in this area and so versatile; fusion, heavy metal, metalcore, grindcore, deathcore, death metal, symphonic black metal...*list goes on* ...hehehe)
Dynamics (so important)
Ghost notes (apparently all the "next gen" or "nu" drummers can only grasp the concept of accent or no accent)
Rototoms (just 'cause...)
Octobans (don't make them go...)
Making complex sound cool (instead of just killing music)
Groovy-ness (just look at Zoro (the drummer) and see how he makes it cool)
Style versatility
Brushes (so versatile; jazz, country, acoustic rock, blues, imagine the possibilities)
Musical understanding

[Pollyanna]

Needs to go:


The money beat
Repetiveness


Back in the Paleozoic Era when I listened almost exclusively to prog and alternative music I thought exactly the same way. I was in a crazy band where I rarely played straight backbeat, and if I did there would be some sylistic twist. That band was a joy.

Now I play in a band that often requires very straight up beats and lots of ostinato. But those straight beats are different in each song, usually with some stylistic twist. It's a joy.

[caddywumpus]

I got to thinking about the smaller toms and it could be a matter of practicality. If you take into consideration shell construction, i.e. DW, you can get a lower fundamental shell pitch with the way they make their X-shells or the VLT stuff than the standard horizontal process. And hauling around around 10" and 12" toms are easier than 12" and 14" or whatever.


Even without the X shells or VLT shells, my 10" DW tom sounds like a 12", and my 16" floor tom sounds like an 18" or 20". Man, that thing can rumble if I tune it low...


Regarding large hats though, I'm liking it... to a certain degree. I got to play a set of 16" K light hats a little while ago, and damn, great warmth. And guys like Pridgen are popularizing 18" hats (2 crashes). Although I think there is a limit to how big you can realistically go. I recall reading and article with Ronnie Vannucci Jr. of the Killers. During the recording of their recent album he was using 20" even 22" rides for hats. However he had a problem getting a warm enough '"chic" sound so he sang into a mic as well. Then there's the practicality of having to play them live which unless you're using a remote setup, would be pretty uncomfortable.


I just happened upon a couple of 19" K Med. Thin crashes that sound PHENOMENAL as hats! The only limit should be whether combinations of cymbals sound good, and even that is subjective from person to person.

I don't know why people are ragging on Bohnam kits...so what? If people like the way that Bohnam sounds, and part of that reason is because of his big drums tuned higher, then they should try it out to see if it's THEIR sound. If you can't pick your drums/sizes based on the sounds you like, then for what reason should you pick them out? (FYI, I tried a few and found out that they weren't for me. You don't see me complaining about them, though...)

[RollingStone000]

Even without the X shells or VLT shells, my 10" DW tom sounds like a 12", and my 16" floor tom sounds like an 18" or 20". Man, that thing can rumble if I tune it low...



I just happened upon a couple of 19" K Med. Thin crashes that sound PHENOMENAL as hats! The only limit should be whether combinations of cymbals sound good, and even that is subjective from person to person.


I don't doubt that, but do you think it could get lower in pitch if they manufactured the same size tom with the new style construction?

And any pics of how you've got those 19"s setup would be much obliged. I've seen a lot of cats talk about large hats, but have yet to see any pics of them setup (actually I saw one, but only one guy who had pics of his kit on here).

[Pollyanna]

Thanks to an interesting post by MFB, the Led Zeppelin is Rediculous [sic] thread in the Off Topic area is covering areas that are relevant to this one:

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=631903

Oh, and we forgot one of the most significant changes in music over the years - hardly any bands are eclectic these days. They are more likely to follow the script than in the years leading up to 1975 or so.

[Moldy]

Electronics are (mostly) out, at least for the majority of sounds; I have seen kits with a Roland padset off to the side.

[caddywumpus]

I don't doubt that, but do you think it could get lower in pitch if they manufactured the same size tom with the new style construction?


No comment. I have no personal experience with the X shells, and only limited experience with the VLTs (no tuning, just playing). The DW video where John Good goes around tapping the different shells makes it seem reasonable to assume that.


And any pics of how you've got those 19"s setup would be much obliged. I've seen a lot of cats talk about large hats, but have yet to see any pics of them setup (actually I saw one, but only one guy who had pics of his kit on here).

I don't have any pics. I *could* take some, but I don't really see the point...it looks like you would expect: a couple of 19" K Med. Thin Crashes on a hi hat stand. Oh, and I had to move the hi hat stand outward a tad so it didn't rub against the rack tom.

It's not my "normal" set up, just something I tried out once and was pleasantly surprised. I wish I could make a short video of it to show off, but I lack the technology (spent too much $$ on drums and diapers these past couple years).

[Jeremy Bender]

Fashion trends I've noticed in the past decade:

Beautiful Wood finish on shells (probably brought about by Yamaha and DW and other smaller boutique companies)

Cymbals that are darker and more "Turkish" in sound.

Smaller sized "popcorn" type snare drums with 10" or 12" heads.

Hammered snare shells ( think Ludwig ).

Black Beauty copycats.

Kids whose feet are faster than their hands !

[Average]

Trends I'm seeing in the blues world -

equipment:
1) Tom tom set on snare stand
2) 16 inch floor tom converted to BD
3) People using outrageously huge hi hats.
4) four piece kits
5) Bigger rides and crashes, often thinner than cymbals have been in the last decade or so.
6) Wood hoops on drums. WTF?

music/band:
1) I've seen 3 virtuoso drummers in the last year playing blues in touring bands. It used to be that a guitarist/singer would be backed up by a plain vanilla rhythm section so that they would stand out more. While that is still often the case, the bands that are getting attention are the bands where everyone, including the drummer, is a serious musician and is allowed to stretch his/her legs.
2) The bands that are getting bigger shows play a variety of blues styles and rock/blues hybrid stuff. People just don't want to sit and listen to a band for several hours when every song sounds the same as the last.

I don't really see double bass pedals as a "trend." I've been playing a double bass pedal since about 1988 in a huge array of styles. Lots of people have.

[mcbike]

I was watching good morning america this morning and they had an artist on Kris Allen who apparently won american idol last year. His drummer exemplifies alot of the TRENDS people have identified in this thread. check out the video here: I tried to find the name of the drummer, but I couldn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXjl7eu8NvY

HUGE SQUARE kick size
4 piece kit
flat cymbals
rack tom on a snare stand

I don't want to talk bad about this drummer, because obviously he does a great job, and sounds good, but he looks like he is playing very loud, even though it's mixed well. you can see him pulling back behind his head to hit backbeats. I think if you compare his style to the top40 style of drummers a decade ago it's alot different now.

I am sure that this band was put together by record company/p.r./marketing

[BassDriver]

I don't want to talk bad about this drummer, because obviously he does a great job, and sounds good, but he looks like he is playing very loud, even though it's mixed well. you can see him pulling back behind his head to hit backbeats. I think if you compare his style to the top40 style of drummers a decade ago it's alot different now.

Whoa, check out that arm movement! Shows crapper technique than mine. To me, there is nothing wrong with such "nu" drum set fashions, sometimes it still looks cool, but that whole arm movement is just ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJKqDgCwZo8
Band is called Short Stack, this drummer is terrible (holy arm movements batman), and honestly his kit looks crap too. Where is the direction of the mainstream music world going?!

...and some other observations...

Trends observed in the metal world:


-Not just kits with two kick drums, different size kick drums are also getting popular (like Danny Carey has a 22" x 18" and a 24" x 18", good effect when doing alternating runs).

-Grooves instead of just blastbeats all the time (YAY!)

-Awesome ride cymbal work (see Jason Bittner)

-That spontaneous "ding!" right in the middle of a death metal song

-Effects cymbals used for very subtle accents

-Ghost notes and ghost note rolls on the snare drum in grooves (like Abe Cunningham)

-Snares with more tone than snare sound

-Less and less use of extra deep toms

-Still that annoying electronic "clicky" sound for a bass drum (inspired by electronic drum sets and trigger settings, kick drum still needs some balls, there is a reason it is called a "bass" drum)

-Wrap around kits

-China riding

-Second high-hat

-Shows of technical excellence

-Toms that sound like buckets

[oops]

I'm personally hoping that 'eco-friendly' drum-building practices come into fashion sometime soon...

It seems ridiculous that a kit I buy (one of the mid-levels from a bigger company: Pearl, Gretsch, Ludwig etc...) should be assembled in China/Taiwan from wood sourced from somewhere else (Philippines etc), then sent to the States and put in a warehouse for one of the big retailers/websites (musician's friend etc), and then shipped to Australia for me.

Meanwhile, I'd love to buy a locally made kit made from locally sourced materials, but it's just too expensive...

It would seriously cost me an extra $2500 to get the kit I want from a local company.

Same deal with cymbals...

Any comments? I'm considering making a thread about 'green' drum companies, to see if anyone knows anything...

[BassDriver]

It seems ridiculous that a kit I buy (one of the mid-levels from a bigger company: Pearl, Gretsch, Ludwig etc...) should be assembled in China/Taiwan from wood sourced from somewhere else (Philippines etc), then sent to the States and put in a warehouse for one of the big retailers/websites (musician's friend etc), and then shipped to Australia for me.

Check out Brady Drums, Spirit Drums and Sleishman Drums, made in Australia (depending on the wood you choose, Jarrah and Ironwood for example are from WA), very good quality but like you said they are very expensive.

Best thing to do if your that ambitious is order some Australian made timber, get a head made in Australia (not sure how, lengthy DIY process I guess), and hold the opposing heads together with a rim made from Australian timber with pieces of rope sourced from Australia, then attach that rim to some mounting system etc. and you get the picture, but I still I like your idea, it might have some niche attraction and some drummers will pay for kits with character.

[mcbike]

nothing is greener than buying a used kit.

I laugh at all these tv shows where people rip out their whole house to replace everything with "green" eco friendly stuff. green is leaving it alone especially when there is no need to create more garbage.

[BassDriver]

Any comments? I'm considering making a thread about 'green' drum companies, to see if anyone knows anything...

That would be Spirit Drums. DeathMetalConga has a Spirit Drums kit. The shells are made out of Ironwood (grown in Australia), and crafted in Australia, and the shells are solid construction (no ply), infact a whole kit can be turned out of the one log with relatively little wood waste, the off-cuts end up being used as fence posts. Again they are expensive, and custom made, have to order what you want the kit to be, and with mailing and what not to get one. A standard 5-piece kit (with standard-tom sizes and 22" kick) from Spirit Drums is around $5500 plus delivery.

...not sure about Sleishman since they use ply and a variety of different woods (rosewoods, Australian natives (Jarrah and Blackwood), exotics, maple)...

I laugh at all these tv shows where people rip out their whole house to replace everything with "green" eco friendly stuff. green is leaving it alone especially when there is no need to create more garbage.
I like your point about second hand kits, but about "eco-green" products, usually that is associated with home appliances...for example: in Australia most places have water restrictions and so water saving taps and shower heads are being sold, for a long-term effect that the appliance uses less water, old appliances then get recycled (at least I hope).

...now what oops was talking about...

...oops was concerned with the actual production of the drums instead.

[Evilbagua]

Reading through this I guess some of the gear I have/stuff I do is either "In" or "Out". I have crazy deep toms 14x12 and 18x18 which are "Out" and then I have a huge kick 28x16 are big bass drums not cool? haha I don't care I have always played 26+. I do play metal, but I suppose Deathgrind is at the not cool not popular ever spectrum.

Oh well, I'm not an old guy (21!) but sometimes I can complain about stuff too. I'm waiting for people to just trigger bass drums for metal that will end up being just an electronic kit pad yet still have 50 china cymbals and 10 toms. As the Metal Inquisition guys always say "Man this band is sound checking and their typewriters sound great, when will they check the drums?".

[PQleyR]

Dave Mackintosh from Dragonforce actually has electronic kick pads behind dummy bass drums...I think the fashion for triggering is as much about quantization as it is about the sound.

[DrumEatDrum]

Dave Mackintosh from Dragonforce actually has electronic kick pads behind dummy bass drums...I think the fashion for triggering is as much about quantization as it is about the sound.

I may be wrong, but it seems a vast majority of metal these days uses triggers in the studio.