Stick Control advice

[cgveritas]

Hello!
I just started using Stick Control by Stone and have one simple question. On the first page for example when practicing with a metronome, do I count each tick of the metronome with each note played? Or do I play the four notes in between clicks? If anyone understands this that would be great. Thanks.

[Monica McCoy]

It's written in 8th notes so you count (1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &). You can set the click to whatever you want so long as you keep it in the pocket. The click can go off with each note, just the downbeats, 1 only, 2 & 4. Whatever works for you...

[larryace]

I'm no expert but I think normally, the click is set to the quarter note. So if the quarter note is set to 60 BPM, then you would play 120 - 8th notes per minute, 240 - 16th notes per minute etc.

[jeffwj]

Actually, it's in cut time. But most people start out playing (and think of) it in 4/4.

Jeff

[larryace]

Jeff could you give me a good explanation of what cut time is?

[Dave_Major]

i think of cut time as meaning that each note is double the value (or half which ever way you look at it) i.e 8ths become 16ths, 16ths become 32nds etc.

This is actually a question that I was going to post a thread on so while it's here could you clarify if I am right Jeff?

Thanks

Dave

[jeffwj]

Jeff could you give me a good explanation of what cut time is?

Sure, anything for a fellow Pennsylvanian (I'm from Hazleton originally).

Cut time (or Alla Breve) is just another time signature. In fact, cut time is an abbreviation for 2/2. The top number tells us that there are two pulses per measure. The bottom number designates the half note as that pulse. So if we read the time signature form top to bottom, we can say we have (the equivalent of) two half notes in each measure.

Since the half note is the pulse, each half note is counted as a number - 1 , 2

A quarter note is half the value of a half note, so quarter notes are counted 1, &, 2, &

There are four eighth notes for every pulse (half note) so eighth notes are counted 1. e. &, a , 2, e, &, a So, Pg. 5 would be counted like this.

You see that 2/2 and 4/4 look exactly the same. It is the way you think about it and the main pulse that are different. When I have my students do writing or composition assignments in cut time, they are sometimes hesitant. So I have them double check their work by thinking of it in 4/4.

As I said earlier, many people tend to think of and play pg. 5 in 4/4. That's ok too. They are just technique exercises - not drum parts. But if you were in a concert band rehearsal and played a Sousa march in 4/4 while the rest of the band played in cut time it would

1. Sound quite weird
2. The band would be finished with the piece and you would only be halfway through.

Jeff

[donv]

For general interest and to expand on what Jeff wrote:

The C for common time and the C with the vertical line through it for cut time is a carry over from Mensural notation which was used from about 1200 to 1600 when time signatures as we use today weren't used. Note value was determined by the context of the music and used what was called perfect and imperfect values. It's actually not even a "C", it's half a circle. Put a dot in it, and it equals what today is 6\8. The rules of modern notation call for a time signature, but obviously it's a rule that's not always followed. To be less specific then Jeff was with 2/2, the top number of a time signature indicates the number of beats per measure and the bottom number indicates what note value gets one whole count.

It's also good to know that what's discussed here refers to western music only. Other musics, Gamelan for example, has a cut time with an entirely different meaning and way different notation.

[cgveritas]

All those last posts totally lost me! But it was interesting! But anyway, thanks everyone for their input. I'll give it a shot.
Craig

[larryace]

Thanks Jeff. Excellent explanation. Which raises another question. Say you're playing music in 12/8 and there is a section that is in cut time. Would that mean 2/2? Or would it mean 6/4?

How about if you were playing in 7/4 and there is a section of cut time? You can't divide 7 in half equally musically speaking (I'm guessing here) so how is that handled?

[BigSteve]

cgveritas,

Page one is in cut time or 2/4. Or two quarter notes per bar, or 4 eighth notes per bar.

If you set your metronome to 2 it will click twice per bar and you would count each bar as
1 e & a 2 e & a. Hope this helps.

[donv]

Thanks Jeff. Excellent explanation. Which raises another question. Say you're playing music in 12/8 and there is a section that is in cut time. Would that mean 2/2? Or would it mean 6/4?

How about if you were playing in 7/4 and there is a section of cut time? You can't divide 7 in half equally musically speaking (I'm guessing here) so how is that handled?

I'm not Jeff, but it would still be 2/2. Cut time is a set time signature and is not measured in realtion to anything but common time or 4/4.

[donv]

cgveritas,

Page one is in cut time or 2/4. Or two quarter notes per bar, or 4 eighth notes per bar.

If you set your metronome to 2 it will click twice per bar and you would count each bar as
1 e & a 2 e & a. Hope this helps.

This happens alot as Larry asked. Cut time is 2/2 and always 2/2--one half of 4/4 or common time.

[jeffwj]

Thanks Jeff. Excellent explanation. Which raises another question. Say you're playing music in 12/8 and there is a section that is in cut time. Would that mean 2/2? Or would it mean 6/4?

How about if you were playing in 7/4 and there is a section of cut time? You can't divide 7 in half equally musically speaking (I'm guessing here) so how is that handled?

First of all
Donv - Great post. I never knew that about 6/8. Now that seems to make sense.

Second
Larry - Cut time will always be 2/2 as Donv said. If you did want to play in 7/4 and then imply a feel that was half of that, you would probably go to 7/8 with the 8th note staying constant.

Jeff

[jeffwj]

cgveritas,

Page one is in cut time or 2/4. Or two quarter notes per bar, or 4 eighth notes per bar.

If you set your metronome to 2 it will click twice per bar and you would count each bar as
1 e & a 2 e & a. Hope this helps.

Maybe I misunderstood your statement, but it would be cut time or 2/2 not 2/4. Or cut time while thinking in 4/4.

Jeff

[BigSteve]

Sorry Jeff, Donv,

You are correct...wrong term on my part. My bad to the OP.

[Monica McCoy]

I've been doing the Stick Control book for a little over a year and I'm on page 18. Like the 3rd page of the flams. I get about 6 per week assigned from my teacher. I've noticed that as I've started playing faster I am counting them in my head as 4/4 16th notes. So to count the cut time correctly, all I have to do is not say 3 and go straight back to 1? 1eANDa 2eANDa [repeat]. That's all there is to it?

[donv]

Thanks Jeff. Excellent explanation. Which raises another question. Say you're playing music in 12/8 and there is a section that is in cut time. Would that mean 2/2? Or would it mean 6/4?

How about if you were playing in 7/4 and there is a section of cut time? You can't divide 7 in half equally musically speaking (I'm guessing here) so how is that handled?

Larry,

Another way to imply cut time with a 7/8 signature would be to play double time. Something to bear in mind, especially with symphonic music is playing cut time may not be consistent for the entire band. Horns and percussion may slide to cut time while the strings and reeds may stick with common time. The BPM doens't change while moving between cut and common time. I use to sit in with a blues band played a song by Obama Masa or whatever his name is, and there was a chorus in the song I thought sounded better with the drums at cut time and the guitar player could not play along to the signature change. Yet, if you were to snap your fingers along to the music, nothing about the time changed.

Jeff,

It's antiquiated, but interesting to know since because a lot of current notation is based on mensural notation, and in many situations it was more informative about the music then current notation, ligatures being a good example. Here's a short breakdown of mensural notation from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensural_notation

[Deltadrummer]

I talked to Joe Morello today. He is doing well. He is going to be publishing a book about how to go through Stick Control, giving away all the trade secrets. This is going to include the many variations that guys like Joe and Alan Dawson, etc. used with their students. Of course, Joe's most famous variations are in Accents and Rebounds, and then Joe's two Master Studies Volumes.

I've done this book with several teachers and each time we did different things with it. As far as the reading, I've always done it in four, two measures of 2 no bar line. It was always easier for me. (I wrote this and then I notice Monica does the same.) It's one of those interesting questions to ask, why did Stone put the book in cut time, and then switch to 2/4? . . . duh . . . I should have asked him that today. It could have been one of those things that he wanted people to play these exercises quickly, and back then, the idea that they could be done with speed was probably not something that every farm boy in Missouri would have figured out. Or maybe it was because its association with marches.

[BigSteve]

I've done this book with several teachers and each time we did different things with it. As far as the reading, I've always done it in four, two measures of 2 no bar line. It was always easier for me. (I wrote this and then I notice Monica does the same.) It's one of those interesting questions to ask, why did Stone put the book in cut time, and then switch to 2/4? . . . duh . . . I should have asked him that today. It could have been one of those things that he wanted people to play these exercises quickly, and back then, the idea that they could be done with speed was probably not something that every farm boy in Missouri would have figured out. Or maybe it was because its association with marches.

Delta....if you get the answer to that I would love to hear it. I have also practiced this in 4/4 and cut time.

[BigSteve]

I went back to practicing this in cut time after several weeks of doing this in 4/4. Jeez it's like starting over again...the feel is so different! I've been working on just page one over a samba with my feet....now I feel like a total clutz. Something new for the old brain to process. lol