rudimets history

[jungle]

Can somebody explain me and show a list of them, how they look, and what is main difference:


Swiss rudiments?
Schotish rudiments?
American rudiments?

[Toza]

Swiss Basler Trommeln hmmm... i got something

http://i35.tinypic.com/2d7xchz.gif

http://i37.tinypic.com/erlz52.gif

http://i34.tinypic.com/1zxy7ts.jpg


Swiss connection was made to North America - especially in the USA - no later than the early 1930's. From then to 1959 we see solos containing approximately eight Swiss rudiments; not many considering the total number in the Berger book. Now, lets examine "what" and "why" certain Swiss rudiments were beginning to be utilized by North American Drum Corps. The following Swiss rudiments approximate the order of priority and implementation by Drum Corps starting around 1959.

1. The Swiss Army-Triplets (both 1/8 and 1/24 note combinations).
2. The Pataflafla-Stroke commencing on the downbeat with a R-Flam, and to a much lesser degree, commencing with a L-tap on the 2nd 1/16th note.
o It should be noted the unfortunate oversight in North America of the most pleasing part of both the Pataflafla-Strokes… the Crescendo!
3. The Tap Flam - Version 1 commencing with a R-Flam on the first 1/16 note and, to a much lesser degree, Version 2 commencing with a R-tap on the first 1/16 note.
4. The flammed Mill- Stroke.
5. The flammed 5-Stroke Roll (single or continuous right hand only).
6. To a much lesser degree, the flammed 9-Stroke Roll (single or continuous right hand only).
7. Berger's foot notes to his "Rudimenter Good Luck" solo, describes "An Application of Lesson 25, but only as a hand-to-hand rudiment". Although this combination was not an official Swiss rudiment at that time, it may explain some North American drummers reference to a "Swiss Lesson 25".

Why, to the best of our knowledge ONLY the above; no Charge Strokes… none of the beautiful Swiss 3-Stroke Roll combinations… The Millwheel Stroke… The Final –Strokes… and so forth? In my opinion, the reason was that the above 7 were quickly understood and could be comfortably incorporated into the North American Drum Corps composition and playing styles. The snare drum was dominant. Difficulty was "in" as part of the learning curve and was credited towards the final score and, the above complimented an incredible number of "the standard 26" combinations already being played. Perhaps having to analyze "monolinear" was a deterent.

Regardless, even the minimum number of Swiss rudiments used was both a welcome and colourful addition.

[Boomka]

Swiss Basler Trommeln hmmm... i got something


Swiss connection was made to North America - especially in the USA - no later than the early 1930's. From then to 1959 we see solos containing approximately eight Swiss rudiments; not many considering the total number in the Berger book. Now, lets examine "what" and "why" certain Swiss rudiments were beginning to be utilized by North American Drum Corps. The following Swiss rudiments approximate the order of priority and implementation by Drum Corps starting around 1959.

1. The Swiss Army-Triplets (both 1/8 and 1/24 note combinations).
2. The Pataflafla-Stroke commencing on the downbeat with a R-Flam, and to a much lesser degree, commencing with a L-tap on the 2nd 1/16th note.
o It should be noted the unfortunate oversight in North America of the most pleasing part of both the Pataflafla-Strokes… the Crescendo!
3. The Tap Flam - Version 1 commencing with a R-Flam on the first 1/16 note and, to a much lesser degree, Version 2 commencing with a R-tap on the first 1/16 note.
4. The flammed Mill- Stroke.
5. The flammed 5-Stroke Roll (single or continuous right hand only).
6. To a much lesser degree, the flammed 9-Stroke Roll (single or continuous right hand only).
7. Berger's foot notes to his "Rudimenter Good Luck" solo, describes "An Application of Lesson 25, but only as a hand-to-hand rudiment". Although this combination was not an official Swiss rudiment at that time, it may explain some North American drummers reference to a "Swiss Lesson 25".

Why, to the best of our knowledge ONLY the above; no Charge Strokes… none of the beautiful Swiss 3-Stroke Roll combinations… The Millwheel Stroke… The Final –Strokes… and so forth? In my opinion, the reason was that the above 7 were quickly understood and could be comfortably incorporated into the North American Drum Corps composition and playing styles. The snare drum was dominant. Difficulty was "in" as part of the learning curve and was credited towards the final score and, the above complimented an incredible number of "the standard 26" combinations already being played. Perhaps having to analyze "monolinear" was a deterent.

Regardless, even the minimum number of Swiss rudiments used was both a welcome and colourful addition.

Toza, nice excerpts. Though it is politic to attribute quoted excerpts to their original sources. I immediately recognised the paragraph above from an article by Fred Johnson in CADRE magazine.

Click here to see the original article in full: http://www.cadre-online.ca/swiss.html

[Toza]

Toza, nice excerpts. Though it is politic to attribute quoted excerpts to their original sources. I immediately recognised the paragraph above from an article by Fred Johnson in CADRE magazine.

Click here to see the original article in full: http://www.cadre-online.ca/swiss.html

I had this on my PC. Sorry i didnt know where it comes from. This pictures are also from my PC;)

[Boomka]

I had this on my PC. Sorry i didnt know where it comes from. This pictures are also from my PC;)

Not a big deal, mate. Just think Fred should get credit for his research. :)

[Steamer]

Can somebody explain me and show a list of them, how they look, and what is main difference:


Swiss rudiments?
Schotish rudiments?
American rudiments?

Complex subject. Taking away the technical elements of the rudiments you will see some BIG musical differences in musical concepts and such between the 2 first ones on your list which i'll briefly focus on.

The Scottish style is very syncopated and "swinging" in nature with a buoyant beat placement and feel in general which applies to the rudiments used to a great extent. Accented closed roll patterns and closed drags, triplet subdivision patterns and such are unique to the Pipe Band style of snare drumming. Look for publications written by the late great master Alex Duthart for detailed information on the rudiments and phrasing and execution of them. I have 2 excellent books on the subject by Alex i'm hoping are still in print

The Swiss Basel style, "Old School" in particular, is again quite unique in conception. What they do with pushing and pulling the time is quite a trip on one drum. Some of the patterns and rudiments require you to push ahead of the beat well others require you to lay WAY back to achieve the desired musical effect needed. Remember other than in solo displays this has to be achieved with up to 12 drummers playing these elements all as "one". The overall wide dynamic execution of the style and the playing with the time and incredible double stroke roll dynamic shifts in general are some touching of the surface highlights for me. Get a copy of the extensive large volume masterpiece on all things Basel drumming called "Das Basel Trommler" by Dr. Fritz Berger for everthing you need to see in detail regarding the rudiments.and their musical execution. Purchased my copy directly from a music shop in Basel some 27 years ago.

[Boomka]

Re: Duthart"s books: as far as I know The Maestro is still in print.

Steamer is spot on about the Scottish stuff (no doubt due to some experience in that vein...) Unlike the very straight up and down feel of American Drum Corps, and even some of the Swiss stuff, Scottish bands spend more time pushing the upbeats than downbeats giving their grooves (yeah, I said grooves...) a swinging, syncopated feel not found in other styles of rudimental drumming. Additionally, the conception of Scottish stuff is based on the pipe melody, rather than as a presentation of "drummism", and the lilting, swirling sound of the pipes is reflected in the patterns the drums play to accompany them.

As for the Swiss stuff, Steamer is again on the money - there is a lot of interpretive stuff with time and feel that you don't hear in the American style drumming. Johnson eludes to it in the article quoted above in regard to the Pata-fla-fla, which in the Swiss (the rudiment was French originally, I believe) style is played with dynamic interpretation not always heard once it made its way into other schools of drumming. Another key feature is the flammed rolls. They're a technical challenge, and give the attack of their rolls a somewhat softer sound to my ear, at least.

[Steamer]

Re: Duthart"s books: as far as I know The Maestro is still in print.

Steamer is spot on about the Scottish stuff (no doubt due to some experience in that vein...) Unlike the very straight up and down feel of American Drum Corps, and even some of the Swiss stuff, Scottish bands spend more time pushing the upbeats than downbeats giving their grooves (yeah, I said grooves...) a swinging, syncopated feel not found in other styles of rudimental drumming. Additionally, the conception of Scottish stuff is based on the pipe melody, rather than as a presentation of "drummism", and the lilting, swirling sound of the pipes is reflected in the patterns the drums play to accompany them.

Yes indeed Boomka.....

The Old School Basel style is directly connected to a fife melody first in many cases. Just a different conceptual style of music. Some serious syncopation in the many of it's application though in some of Dr Bergers drum scores in particular.

Love them both......:}

[Boomka]

Yes indeed Boomka.....

The Old School Basel style is directly connected to a fife melody first in many cases. Just a different conceptual style of music. Some serious syncopation in the many of it's application though in some of Dr Bergers drum scores in particular.

Love them both......:}

Yeah, you're right. You can kind of see/hear the fife ornamentations in the grace-notes the Swiss guys use. The little drags and flams in odd spots add so much subtly and texture.

[donv]

Here's a link to old rudiments:

Ashworth's Rudiments, 1812
Potter's Rudiments 1815
Sousa's Rudiments1886

and more.

http://www.rudimentaldrumming.com/rudi.html

[Steamer]

In the historical book that I had translated into english that's a companion to Dr Bergers "Das Basel Trommler" the first rudiments were played and formulated by the Swiss back 1300-1400's during the times of the Crusade {I need to reference the book for specific exact dates}. There's a asian/persian { land of the crusades } connection to the beginnings of the first snare drum rudiments and rudimental drumming just like you will find when you trace the beginning roots of Celtic music that spread to other countries by the mercenaries.

[jungle]

do you have clips on you tube or something where i can here this differences?
what about americano?

[Steamer]

do you have clips on you tube or something where i can here this differences?
what about americano?

Here's some good clips showing the differences between the Scottish and the "Old School" Basel snare drum styles.

First one with solo drum and piper by one of the masters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5RTskyRd8c&feature=related

Next up solo {2 actually in same clip} "Old School" Basel drumming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck8_E46hgAA

With 3 drummers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMr4hV4FV9s&feature=related

With fife:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF-9sE1pM2Y&feature=related