approaches to the Black Page

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Terry Bozzio's most memorable solo.
my drum teacher wants me to learn it with his transcribed copy.
i can do it, but the subdivisions are making me go insane.
and tips for it?

[mlehnertz]

I think Bozzio's approach to it was to practice a few measures for about 15 minutes a day until he had the whole thing down.

Terry Bozzio's most memorable solo.
my drum teacher wants me to learn it with his transcribed copy.
i can do it, but the subdivisions are making me go insane.
and tips for it?

[Loading...]

it was improvised.
but that may be a good approach for me.

[aahznightsky]

it was improvised.




Quoi?!

20 characters hehehehe

[Loading...]

im guessing that means WHAT!?!
but yea it was off the cuff.

[finnhiggins]

im guessing that means WHAT!?!
but yea it was off the cuff.

I doubt that. Recordings of it feature exact unison performance by both drums and percussion, and IIRC the title refers to a "Black page" of notes (i.e, extremely dense notes written on paper) written by Zappa for Bozzio.

Zappa's intro to the 2nd version of the Black Page on Live in NY tends to suggest that it was something that he wrote, rather than a transcribed Bozzio improv.

But maybe you know something I don't?

[Billy The Mountain]

Finnhiggins is correct.

'The Black Page' was not improvised. It was written specifically for Terry Bozzio by Frank Zappa.

From http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/ ...

Terry Bozzio - 'He wrote it because we had done this 40-piece orchestra gig together [The Abnuceals Orchestra] and he was always hearing the studio musicians in LA that he was using on that talking about the fear of going into sessions some morning and being faced with 'the black page'. So he decided to write his 'Black Page'. Then he gave it to me, and I could play parts of it right away. But it wasn't a pressure thing, it just sat on my music stand and for about 15 minutes every day for 2 weeks before we would rehearse I would work on it. And after 2 weeks I had it together and I played it for him. And he said, "Great!" took it home, wrote the melody and the chord changes, brought it back in. And we all started playing it.'

I'm assuming that he want's you to learn the original version and not the 'easy teenage New York version'?

The key is not to think about it too much, keep in mind that the time signature is in 4/4 and does not change. As with anything, do it slow and take your time. It's quite a complex piece. Are you a Zappa fan at all? What are your previous experiences with polyrhythms?

NP : 'Vanity Fair' by Mr. Bungle

[mlehnertz]

Get down with your bad self.


I'm assuming that he want's you to learn the original version and not the 'easy teenage New York version'?

[Loading...]

correct me again if i'm wrong but...
while he did write it, i think the first version was done off the cuff. (the song is also seperate from the solo).
my drum teacher is a zappa nut and he seemed pretty sure when he said it was improvised.

as far as my interest in zappa, i've liked mothers of invention for quite a while which lead to my zappa liking.

i know it's in 4/4 and its not as hard as some solos but keep in mind i've only been playing for under 2 years.

[npx]

FZ himself stated on many occasions that the composition was WRITTEN first as a solo piece for drum set, and once Terry learned it, he wrote a melody and supporting parts... I loved how it ended up with that cheesey disco vamp behind it. :) (Although the all percussion version is by far my favorite... Watching someone play that lead line on a marimba is astounding!!)

As for tackling the mean subdivisions in there, patience and determination in abundance need to be on hand! Steve Vai (infamous Zappa scribe and guitarist) once wrote a series of articles on his approaches to them… I’m not sure where you can find them now, but I’m sure some Zappa or Vai nut may well have scanned them and put them on the net somewhere…

STOP PRESS!! Vai has them on his own site <a href=http://vai.com/LittleBlackDots/tempomental.html>here</a>!

Also check out the Gary Chaffee book “Rhythm and Meter Patterns” if you’re just getting into (or want to work on) odd groupings.

I have often contemplated purchasing the charts for The Black Page from the Barking Pumpkin site and attempting to start working through it... UGH! I live in a unit and have nowhere to set up and practice on my kit other than at gigs... I'm sure people would just LOVE to hear me trying to work on THAT stuff at a soundcheck! HAHAHA!

I hope some of this helps!

Cheers!

[Dr Drums]

can someone link us or upload this page ?
sounds interesting

[npx]

Loading... , just wondering - you said your teacher wants you to learn it "with his transcribed copy" - does this mean he transcribed a version of it himself, or did he successfully purchase the chart from munchkin music? (Unfortunately, they are no longer selling these charts... a lot of people are after them, but it seems you can't get them anymore. The forum on Zappa.com is full of frustrated would-be customers!)

For a transcription of the melody though, check out the green page scans from the February 1987 edition of Keyboard magazine on this page:

http://www.zappateers.com/diapo.php?cat=39&expand=20

Those who are deperate for a kit chart could easily (well, a lot more easily than starting from scratch!) use this as a rhythmic guide, listen to the solo version and transcribe the appropriate note placements.

I'm shuddering at bar 15...

[Loading...]

yes he transcribed it himself but i'm using his teacher's transcribed copy.

this was his midterm final in his last year at los angelos music school.

NPC thanks, that copy works but i'll post mine anyway.

[npx]

Let us know how you progress with it!

[Drummin_Dan]

Well, you can spend time listening to it alot. Try to follow with the chart. Also, you can do the whole "playing along" thing. It really depends on how your sight-reading is. Of course, I wouldn't recommend starting off by trying to play along, it's far too fast to begin with. Just sit down and figure out groupings and how it fits in the meter. It's more of a process than anything.

[Billy The Mountain]

it's far too fast to begin with.

Speed is not really an issue with the tune. The 'Zappa In New York' version sits around 60 bpm (quarter notes) and is primarily kept in time by the hi-hat.

The real killer is the subdivisions and polyrhythms. As with learning anything new, slowing it down even more so will help. Just take it one bar at a time.

And watch out for bar 15! I have this particular bar in a frame hung above my CD collection. Why? Why not?

NP : 'The Purple Lagoon' by Frank Zappa

[NUTHA JASON]

watch the black page here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDwRJK8bpb4

j

[moe.ron]

you think thats hard? try learning spur of the moment and chicken with dave weckl on drums. just kidding. if its printed out which is what i thought you said maybe just read it over and get used to it. and take chunks at a time. look how tiny bozzios kit is in that video

[Ian Ballard]

watch the black page here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDwRJK8bpb4

j

Jason, that's the Black Page #2, "the easy teenage New York version". It's considerably easier to play than the actual Black Page. Get Zappa in New York... it has both versions so you can hear the difference. Frank made #2, so he could try to get people to dance to it. It's streamlined version that has much of the hardest metric modulations taken out.

I suggest trying to find the sheet music. I thought I was playing it correctly by ear, but I was wrong.

There are numerous tricky subdivisions that involve a three quarter note grouping that have fives and sixes superimposed and that dastardly end section that is in 11's.

You just cannot play that thing correctly without the notation. I was lucky to purchase the melodic score (not the drum part) from Barking Pumpkin. However they do not sell sheet music anymore, because I guess Gail is afraid to many people will try to perform the stuff live.

*shrugs*

Anyway, I may be able to scan it and send it to you.

[SickRick]

Jason, that's the Black Page #2, "the easy teenage New York version". It's considerably easier to play than the actual Black Page. Get Zappa in New York... it has both versions so you can hear the difference. Frank made #2, so he could try to get people to dance to it. It's streamlined version that has much of the hardest metric modulations taken out.

Sorry, but that is BS. The "easy teenage New York Version" was a joke by Zappa and it is just as hard to play - it features all the 11uplets and the other stuff in the melody and even the drums jump in at times. I have transcriptions of both versions for Drums and Vibraphone/Marimbaphone and a few years back I was able to play both Versions of both instruments. Also, on the 2nd Version Terry plays some real sick fills and licks that are improvised but if you try to play them too.... well..... then it actually much harder than the first Version.

BTW - of course it was written out for Terry by Zappa. I am student of Ralph Humphrey who actually played with Zappa and he knows all the stories and elaborated quite a bit on this particular solo.

[Ian Ballard]

Sorry, but that is BS. The "easy teenage New York Version" was a joke by Zappa and it is just as hard to play - it features all the 11uplets and the other stuff in the melody and even the drums jump in at times. I have transcriptions of both versions for Drums and Vibraphone/Marimbaphone and a few years back I was able to play both Versions of both instruments. Also, on the 2nd Version Terry plays some real sick fills and licks that are improvised but if you try to play them too.... well..... then it actually much harder than the first Version.

BTW - of course it was written out for Terry by Zappa. I am student of Ralph Humphrey who actually played with Zappa and he knows all the stories and elaborated quite a bit on this particular solo.

I'm sorry that you can't tell the obvious differences in the arrangments. It's not my fault. But I assure you, Black Page #1 is a bit more "dense" in note frequency... hence the name.

"Slick fills" doesn't equate "harder". Those are muscle memory licks that Terry could pull off in his sleep. TERRY HIMSELF said at one of the clinics he held that #1 was technically more difficult.

I've played both and I've trascribed both.

Have you?

[SickRick]

I didn't say it was your fault so no worries.

Yes, I've played both versions - that is why I know they are equally difficult - they feature the exact same subdivisions.... I'm sorry you didn't notice that when you played them - it must have sounded pretty strange when you played that thing if you didn't even realize that.


BTW: "Muscle Memory Fills" is just a term you throw in here because it sounds nice. These things are just Fills that Terry improvises and he can pull off easily. But that doesn't necessarily mean that YOU can easily play them. Or are you Terry?

If so, sorry to bother you.

[Ian Ballard]

The notation of #1 and #2 is not exactly the same. The "subdivisions" as you put it, are also variant. I'm not going to waste my time explaining the whole comparison of the pieces, because if you can't hear the differences or see them in written form... well... it would do you no good to read them in words.

You're entitled to your opinion about which one is harder, but saying that they contain the exact same notation and subdivisions is completely fallacious.

[SickRick]

One more thing: I was not talking only about technical difficulty. Of course the very last part with the fast 11uplets in the first version is the most difficult part in both versions.

I was much more talking about rhythmical difficulty - and since almost any subdivision that appears in the first part also appears in the second, I'd say that they are equally difficult. The "Disco type vamp" that runs under that doesn't mean the subdivisions played over it are more easy to play.

No, I've not transcribed both. I had transcriptions so there was no need to transcribe. But I was able (and its 7 years back, so this is why I say was) to play both versions BOTH on drums AND Marimba. And from this experience I can totally assure you that both are equally difficult because No#2 on Marimba is INSANE compared to No#1 - even though it sounds easier. Stickings and jumps from note to note you have to make on that one are just mad.


Back @ topic: Tips how to learn it....


The hardest part for me was the Triplet und which is are played two quintuplets and a sixtuplet. The way I practised this was a)only play the triplet until you have it down. Then start adding the quintuplets and the sixtuplet. b)keep the HiHat under it going in quarter notes along with a click and c) play along with the record once you have it down. If you have a chance to do that try this: Make a loop out of the bars you dont understand and play along with that. That will make it easier.

[finnhiggins]

I'm going to have to agree with Lutz on this one. My qualifications? Actually, I'd better run off and hide at this point. I've neither fully transcribed the piece or learned it, but from listening I'd have to say that essentially the core difference between the #1 and #2 versions is the disco vamp, most of the same metric density seems to carry across both from my listening.

Of course, if you want to have the "is it any good" argument with me then I'll take both you guys on. I've never liked The Black Page, in either form. Everything that annoys me about Zappa condensed into one drum solo...

[mattsmith]

Everything that annoys me about Zappa condensed into one drum solo...
Finn, your opinion about this may be a lonely one. Even the most hardened jazz snob admires Zappa, believes him underrated, and considers the Black Page along with Gregory Peccary, among his most beneficial anthems. God bless that misunderstood long haired freak.

[Ian Ballard]

I'm going to have to agree with Lutz on this one. My qualifications? Actually, I'd better run off and hide at this point. I've neither fully transcribed the piece or learned it, but from listening I'd have to say that essentially the core difference between the #1 and #2 versions is the disco vamp, most of the same metric density seems to carry across both from my listening.

Of course, if you want to have the "is it any good" argument with me then I'll take both you guys on. I've never liked The Black Page, in either form. Everything that annoys me about Zappa condensed into one drum solo...

"Take me on?" Do your opinions have nuclear warheads or something?

[finnhiggins]

Finn, your opinion about this may be a lonely one. Even the most hardened jazz snob admires Zappa, believes him underrated, and considers the Black Page along with Gregory Peccary, among his most beneficial anthems. God bless that misunderstood long haired freak.

Don't get me wrong, I admire Zappa and think he's generally fairly underrated when it comes to his visibility in wider popular culture. But on the other hand I also think he's shockingly overrated in certain musician circles. For me he's a fine proof of the concept that you can become highly skilled as a creative musical craftsman without ever really saying a whole lot through the medium of music. Ironically it's Zappa the underrated pop-culture icon who saves him from the worst of this, because it stops him turning into a humourless, po-faced shredder. But it also results in him writing endless stupid songs off the same very small collection of vamps, of which you have to sit through a vast number before you find any of the good stuff he wrote.

And I still don't think The Black Page was the good stuff. It's always struck me as too contrived. I don't like Gergory Peccary either. I'd argue that, say, "The Torture Never Stops" off Zoot Allures is better than either, despite being a million times simpler. Plus it's one of the only times ever that Zappa has been the best singer for a Zappa song.

[Ian Ballard]

Don't get me wrong, I admire Zappa and think he's generally fairly underrated when it comes to his visibility in wider popular culture. But on the other hand I also think he's shockingly overrated in certain musician circles. For me he's a fine proof of the concept that you can become highly skilled as a creative musical craftsman without ever really saying a whole lot through the medium of music. Ironically it's Zappa the underrated pop-culture icon who saves him from the worst of this, because it stops him turning into a humourless, po-faced shredder. But it also results in him writing endless stupid songs off the same very small collection of vamps, of which you have to sit through a vast number before you find any of the good stuff he wrote.

And I still don't think The Black Page was the good stuff. It's always struck me as too contrived. I don't like Gergory Peccary either. I'd argue that, say, "The Torture Never Stops" off Zoot Allures is better than either, despite being a million times simpler. Plus it's one of the only times ever that Zappa has been the best singer for a Zappa song.

And yet with that whole diatribe you miss the entire point. He ONLY did the rock band thing to fund his orchestral endeavors. He only integrated his technical approach within the confines of a rock band, and that's why it's infinately inferior to his classical music. Being a composer first and foremost, I appreciate Zappa not for his lyrics about bulging, drooling eroticism, but the musical approach itself... and his guitar playing was one of a kind. He's kind of the Sonny Rollins of guitar.. minus the drugs. I also almost unanimously agree with his stand on drugs/alcohol and politics.

Yellow Shark, LSO...etc. That's the good stuff.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

i don't own any zappa... i'm not sure that i "get" him. all of the songs i've heard of his

were of "comical" nature. he doesn't seem to take himself seriously? (i'm listening

to "montana" right now in which he talks profusely about dental floss...) is there

something i'm missing? i can see that the music is quite complex, and very layered... but

his lyrics... what would be a good zappa album to start off with?

[Jookbox]

joe's garage? i've never felt compelled to buy any zappa records, other than to hear vinnie.

[SickRick]

You should - there is some real great stuff - even without Vinnie.

Check out "Man from Utopia", that is some of the funniest stuff out there. And it is without Vinnie afaik.
"the jazz discharge party hats" is the funniest tune I ever heard.

[jonescrusher]

what would be a good zappa album to start off with?


Well, there's such a wealth of material covering so many periods of his career, you really need to check out material from each era and see which you prefer. I think a lot of his work from the 70's are the most enjoyable listens - One Size Fits All, Apostrophe/Overnite Sensation, Roxy & Elsewhere are well, well worth checking out. I think these make better introductions to Zappa than Joes Garage/Colaiuta era myself.

[finnhiggins]

I tend to like Zappa with Bozzio, and particularly in a live environment: Bongo Fury (w/Captain Beefheart), Live in New York (albeit mostly disc 1, disc 2 bores me) and for a studio album/good starting point I quite like Zoot Allures.

[da cheese walks]

i don't own any zappa... i'm not sure that i "get" him. all of the songs i've heard of his

were of "comical" nature. he doesn't seem to take himself seriously? (i'm listening

to "montana" right now in which he talks profusely about dental floss...) is there

something i'm missing? i can see that the music is quite complex, and very layered... but

his lyrics... what would be a good zappa album to start off with?

thats the thing i love about Zappa....i mean most incredibly technical and brilliant musicains have absolutley CRAP lyrics...i mean listen to some of Eric Johnsons lyrics?godawful!!

and even tho the subject matter of Zappas lyrics is usually "comical" its absolutley amazing how well he makes those lyrics sound....i mean some of the rhyming coupkets he comes out with?!?its pure insanity yet it sounds so so good!

a lot of Zappas stuff is slightly bewildering at first glance...but ive grown to love basically all of zappas stuff!!

the man was a genius....pure and utter...he may have been so juvenile an hilariously childish...but neverthe less he always had a hugely profiicient and mature sound to his music!what a man!

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

thanks all for the information. i'm planning on starting off with "over-nite sensation"... and

then i'll eventually get to the rest of his stuff (there is so much). he definitely seems like an acquired taste.

[Ian Ballard]

You should - there is some real great stuff - even without Vinnie.

Check out "Man from Utopia", that is some of the funniest stuff out there. And it is without Vinnie afaik.
"the jazz discharge party hats" is the funniest tune I ever heard.

Actually Vinnie plays the drums on some of the songs on that album.

[SickRick]

Really?

I thought it was Terry. Asche über mein Haupt. I'm no good with names....

[SickRick]

thanks all for the information. i'm planning on starting off with "over-nite sensation"... and

then i'll eventually get to the rest of his stuff (there is so much). he definitely seems like an acquired taste.


Thats a great record. It features Humphrey and he is great on it. Many many tom fills that are SOOOO out of fashion but still sound cool. I have made transcriptions of some of these songs but they are not digitalized yet.- Once I've done this I might up them - its good stuff.

[Ian Ballard]

Really?

I thought it was Terry. Asche über mein Haupt. I'm no good with names....

http://www.science.uva.nl/~robbert/zappa/albums/The_Man_From_Utopia/

thanks all for the information. i'm planning on starting off with "over-nite sensation"... and

then i'll eventually get to the rest of his stuff (there is so much). he definitely seems like an acquired taste.

My mom had "We're only in it for the money" and eventually I got almost all of his records either in vinyl or CD.

I suggest getting his book, "The Real Frank Zappa Book". It's amazingly funny and intereting.

I would also think of the Black Page as one of the best rhythm studies out there. Then, I would suggest studying some Igor Stravinsky, The Rite of Spring in particular.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

I suggest getting his book, "The Real Frank Zappa Book". It's amazingly funny and intereting.

I would also think of the Black Page as one of the best rhythm studies out there. Then, I would suggest studying some Igor Stravinsky, The Rite of Spring in particular.

thanks for the tips. i'll definitely check out the book.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I would also think of the Black Page as one of the best rhythm studies out there. Then, I would suggest studying some Igor Stravinsky, The Rite of Spring in particular.
Oh good call! I was listening to 'The Firebird' the other night on the radio in my car (yes, I listen to Radio Three for all you UK folks) and there was some really great rhythmic interplay, particularly with the percussion section. Really great stuff, I suggest you check it out.

[plooker68]

Then check out Edgard Varese..."Ionisation". You will hear a major influence on Zappa. Check your local Library...they will have it.

[Womble]

Thats a great record. It features Humphrey and he is great on it. Many many tom fills that are SOOOO out of fashion but still sound cool.

Lol. I have hazy memories of watching grainy old footage late night in LA of Ralph with Zappa, and to be quite frank (ahahah) I never enjoyed it very much. I DO remember lots of extended tom patterns and fills which sounded, well...blueuyugh! But I know you liked his playing...

[SickRick]

Yeah..... I love the guy. I think he is a sweetheart and a great source of knowledge and stories. Also, I always loved his humor and his subtle jokes. But I also heard that in later years most students prefered Packer because he is not tired of teaching yet.

Packer and Humphrey..... too SERIOUS guys. I think that Packer might even be able to sight read stuff like the black page - no joke.

I recall a nice gig with Ralph in LA: He was playing in a BigBand he never played with before and he had to sight read everything (they only played originals), yet he catched all the figures, played with nice feel, served the solos..... it was SICK. Sometimes he even played in between the figures.... baaaaaad baaaaaad mofo.

[jonot]

So can someone actually post the transcription?

[Erik Lund]

"Even the most hardened jazz snob admires Zappa, believes him underrated"


...Well...let's not make blanket statements like that...

= )

[whoback]

Because you asked for it: the transcription. Kid tested, Drummer Approved. Enjoy!

[druid]

correct me again if i'm wrong but...
while he did write it, i think the first version was done off the cuff. (the song is also seperate from the solo).
my drum teacher is a zappa nut and he seemed pretty sure when he said it was improvised.

as far as my interest in zappa, i've liked mothers of invention for quite a while which lead to my zappa liking.

i know it's in 4/4 and its not as hard as some solos but keep in mind i've only been playing for under 2 years.

No No...definitely NOT improvised.

The Black Page is a written drum solo everything is phrased over 4/4 time...but the odd groupings and polyrhythms are what make it difficult.

I learned and perfromed it for part of my Senior Recital. I recommend breaking it down by maybe playing it totally as a snare solo first. Getting familiar with all the groupings...first. then transpose to the correct drums. Also note: the original Bozzio version he played quarter notes on the high hat...I feel this will help keep you locked in timewise while learning how the groupings "fall" over the 4/4 time.

[jonescrusher]

Because you asked for it: the transcription. Kid tested, Drummer Approved. Enjoy!


Seems rather incomplete, what?

[whoback]

It's complete. The repeat is good. Here is Terry playing it solo with minor instrumentation differences. Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQt2inyxNNg)

[slingerland755]

I'm always looking for Terry's videos on YouTube. Nice!

[jonescrusher]

It's complete. The repeat is good. Here is Terry playing it solo with minor instrumentation differences. Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQt2inyxNNg)


So it is! Written down it seems somehow less daunting than simply hearing it.
Piece o' piss ;)

[Mr. Pasquini]

My approach is not to approach it. I'm not ready to go mad, yet.

[whoback]

Its not that hard! Like Jonescrusher says "Written down it seems somehow less daunting than simply hearing it." Read, listen, absorb and work it out. Soon you'll be hearing / feeling those subdivisions like its your job... and it is. Right?