What's he doing?

[Random Name 123]

I'm not an experienced enough drummer to work out what's going on here, wondered if anyone could help me. For the last two years I've been getting the rock/funk stuff down, now I'm moving onto bluesy/folk kind of stuff (which I think this would be classified under) so any help on deciphering what the drummer is doing will be appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miBMJV0TUIA

Cheers.

[Mighty_Joker]

It's difficult to make out the drums clearly, but to me it sounds like quite an up tempo shuffle, with the bass drum and snare keeping the back beat. In fact, the more I listen to it, the more I'm sure it's something resembling a texas shuffle, by which I mean: swung 8ths on the kick, a basic jazz pattern on the hi-hat, and shuffled snare.

I'm sure the veterans will correct me, but I think it's definitely a shuffle variation.

[caddywumpus]

It sounds like he's trying to make up for the poor bass playing...

[Random Name 123]

It's difficult to make out the drums clearly, but to me it sounds like quite an up tempo shuffle, with the bass drum and snare keeping the back beat. In fact, the more I listen to it, the more I'm sure it's something resembling a texas shuffle, by which I mean: swung 8ths on the kick, a basic jazz pattern on the hi-hat, and shuffled snare.

I'm sure the veterans will correct me, but I think it's definitely a shuffle variation.

Cheers mate, just checked out the Texas shuffle and I think you're right, it's a variation of that.

[bobdadruma]

It sounds like he's trying to make up for the poor bass playing...My thought also! LOL
Sounds like a common shuffle to me. Its hard to hear it well enough to identify which drums are being played.

[larryace]

Texas Shuffle? I don't hear the snare shuffling. There are a few things you could play that would fit just fine. You don't have to copy this guy, it's not that great. Just play what you think would work well. I'd say keep it simple, 1/2's on the bass on 1 and 3, 1/2's on the snare on 2 and 4, and either a shuffled hi hat or straight quarters on the hats. With Blues, you are basically there just to keep time, because that's what sounds best in Blues. Space. Don't over think it.

[Random Name 123]

Texas Shuffle? I don't hear the snare shuffling. There are a few things you could play that would fit just fine. You don't have to copy this guy, it's not that great. Just play what you think would work well. I'd say keep it simple, 1/2's on the bass on 1 and 3, 1/2's on the snare on 2 and 4, and either a shuffled hi hat or straight quarters on the hats. With Blues, you are basically there just to keep time, because that's what sounds best in Blues. Space. Don't over think it.

Thanks.

Regarding blues drumming, how far can you take it? Is there not really much outside of the Purdie shuffle and its variations?

[GRUNTERSDAD]

It sounds to me as if he is playing with brushes and adding ghost notes or brush swipes before the beat. If that makes sense. But it does have a shuffle feel.

[Monica McCoy]

For other ways to play blues you can look into syncopated shuffles. Over the past year my drum teacher has etched a half dozen of them in my music book. And even with a plain shuffle you can use a lot of different bass drum patterns. It's only as basic as you let it be.

[larryace]

Thanks.

Regarding blues drumming, how far can you take it? Is there not really much outside of the Purdie shuffle and its variations?

I consider myself a blues drummer first and foremost, so here's what I got...

With Blues, don't think in terms of taking it real far. Think in terms of..."what's the simplest thing I can play here, that doesn't draw attention to me, and gives the others the right atmosphere so THEY can take the song where it needs to go. It's no place to get "creative". Just keep great feeling time with next to no fills. Sorry, but this is what works best.

What you need to do is nail the right tempo, have great meter, and most importantly, understand the dynamics (play softer when the singer is on mic, when anybody solos, and increase your intensity along with the soloist to build the song, then drop it way down when the vocalist comes back in, for example)

Blues is mostly about what you don't play. Less is waaaay more here. You can cut loose on the endings a little, but the rest of the song you are taking the supportive hidden role. Try and leave out as many fills as you can stand. It's almost the opposite of hard rock or metal drumming. You leave space for everyone to do their thing and just make it feel good. NO HOT DOGGING! There are songs where build ups and fills are played for sure, but if it doesn't scream for it, leave it out. (learn to play a good press or buzz roll, you usually can't go wrong using them)

There is a lot outside of the Purdie Shuffle. You got your 6/8 slow blues, 2/4 country type beats, standard 12 bar shuffle blues, 8 bar blues, there's a ton of shuffle variations (flat tire shuffle, texas shuffle half time shuffle, straight shuffle, double shuffle, faster swing shuffles etc.) at all the various tempos...
Blues music uses rhumba rhythms sometimes (you can cut loose on them a little). And Blues also uses straight time beats. Sometimes I'm playing the simplest straight time beat imaginable (quarters on the hat, quarters on the bass, snare on 2 and 4. Sometimes I leave out the hats and just play bass and snare) because space and simplicity trumps "creativity" and fills everytime in Blues. It just plain works better, and gives the vocalist and soloists what they want (space!) and gets you HIRED.

You may think it's boring but it's really not, if you're thinking that you are being boring, then you are probably playing the right thing.

Blues takes confidence and great restraint, don't follow, set the tempo and lock it there. Give everyone a solid back beat to weave around. I learned all this the hard way, by doing the opposite of what I just described, and by listening to the playback, I eventually dropped all the extraneous unnecessary stuff and left ONLY what was required, then worked at doing what was left the absolute best I could. I can't stand it when a drummer for a blues band is an "over the top" player. Save it for another musical genre, please.

[Vipercussionist]

I can't stand it when a drummer for a blues band is an "over the top" player. Save it for another musical genre, please.

Depends on what "variation" of blues you are doing doesn't it? There are country variations, roots rock variations and stuff all the way to heavy rock variations.

I occasionally fill in on a local blues jam, and I was told by the band I was being TOO polite in my approach with them and to loosen up and let it flow.

Your approach can be simplistic and still not be complimentary. It depends on what the other musicians are looking for, doesn't it?

It REALLY depends who's definition of "over the top" you're talking about!

Who is the one who makes the definitive "bottom line" for this??

YOU?? ME?? Who???? Who gets to make this imaginary and very subjective line in the "This Is What You Should Play In The Blues" sand??

[Random Name 123]

I consider myself a blues drummer first and foremost, so here's what I got...

With Blues, don't think in terms of taking it real far. Think in terms of..."what's the simplest thing I can play here, that doesn't draw attention to me, and gives the others the right atmosphere so THEY can take the song where it needs to go. It's no place to get "creative". Just keep great feeling time with next to no fills. Sorry, but this is what works best.

What you need to do is nail the right tempo, have great meter, and most importantly, understand the dynamics (play softer when the singer is on mic, when anybody solos, and increase your intensity along with the soloist to build the song, then drop it way down when the vocalist comes back in, for example)

Blues is mostly about what you don't play. Less is waaaay more here. You can cut loose on the endings a little, but the rest of the song you are taking the supportive hidden role. Try and leave out as many fills as you can stand. It's almost the opposite of hard rock or metal drumming. You leave space for everyone to do their thing and just make it feel good. NO HOT DOGGING! There are songs where build ups and fills are played for sure, but if it doesn't scream for it, leave it out. (learn to play a good press or buzz roll, you usually can't go wrong using them)

There is a lot outside of the Purdie Shuffle. You got your 6/8 slow blues, 2/4 country type beats, standard 12 bar shuffle blues, 8 bar blues, there's a ton of shuffle variations (flat tire shuffle, texas shuffle half time shuffle, straight shuffle, double shuffle, faster swing shuffles etc.) at all the various tempos...
Blues music uses rhumba rhythms sometimes (you can cut loose on them a little). And Blues also uses straight time beats. Sometimes I'm playing the simplest straight time beat imaginable (quarters on the hat, quarters on the bass, snare on 2 and 4. Sometimes I leave out the hats and just play bass and snare) because space and simplicity trumps "creativity" and fills everytime in Blues. It just plain works better, and gives the vocalist and soloists what they want (space!) and gets you HIRED.

You may think it's boring but it's really not, if you're thinking that you are being boring, then you are probably playing the right thing.

Blues takes confidence and great restraint, don't follow, set the tempo and lock it there. Give everyone a solid back beat to weave around. I learned all this the hard way, by doing the opposite of what I just described, and by listening to the playback, I eventually dropped all the extraneous unnecessary stuff and left ONLY what was required, then worked at doing what was left the absolute best I could. I can't stand it when a drummer for a blues band is an "over the top" player. Save it for another musical genre, please.

Thanks for the detailed post.

[larryace]

Depends on what "variation" of blues you are doing doesn't it? There are country variations, roots rock variations and stuff all the way to heavy rock variations.

I occasionally fill in on a local blues jam, and I was told by the band I was being TOO polite in my approach with them and to loosen up and let it flow.

Your approach can be simplistic and still not be complimentary. It depends on what the other musicians are looking for, doesn't it?

It REALLY depends who's definition of "over the top" you're talking about!

Who is the one who makes the definitive "bottom line" for this??

YOU?? ME?? Who???? Who gets to make this imaginary and very subjective line in the "This Is What You Should Play In The Blues" sand??

I'm just offering up my experiences with playing mostly blues for the last 6 years, for what it's worth. I used to play too loud, fills at every transition, not enough feel, and little dynamic understanding. I played for me, not the others. It's real easy to do when you first start, especially if you think the drums are the most important part. They aren't. The song comes first. Again these are all just my opinions, but are based on my own trial and error.

[bobdadruma]

I agree with Larryace on this one. Blues is all about Timing, Dynamics, and Feeling. Complicated rhythms and wild fills don't work well in most Blues songs. You don't want the Blues to become Jazz, or Rock! It is easy to cross the line. Shuffle beats can easily become Jazz rhythms. Fill-Ins can create a Rock feel.
When a Blues tune is being presented correctly, The listener should become both sad and happy at the same time. That's what the Blues is about. The rhythm drives the listener into a trance. The melody is like a winding road that brings the listener down and up.
I've heard Larryace play the blues, He's got it down!

[larryace]

The rhythm drives the listener into a trance. The melody is like a winding road that brings the listener down and up.


Beautifully put, +1 on the trance thing. And thanks for the kind words Bob
I mean Thanks for the kind words Bob!!!!!!

[Vipercussionist]

And just in case it wasn't obvious, in NO WAY was I saying your view wasn't viable larryace, I too approach almost ALL of the blues gigs I do with a subdued politeness that has me getting callbacks consistently.

I've also found that coming from a rock background has EARNED me more gigs in blues bands than not. Too many blues drummers are so busy laying back and being unobtrusive that occasionally there's a "lounge" effect and the perception is they're not kicking the band's ass enough.

I'm not talking about chops, intricate fills or the like, but havin' the ability to kick it like you MEAN it can go a LONG way. There are LOTS of bands that don't realize how GOOD it feels to kick ass, that is until they try it. Some are amazed that all of a sudden the patrons get up and DANCE instead of sitting and snoozing. Blues doesn't HAVE to circumvent the average patron. They have an uncanny knack for MISSING the subtleties of blues players and considering The Blues a BORING style of music, but give them a good strong beat behind it and they're dancin' and loving it

Blues has ENOUGH of a reputation for being the "same old thing" and all I'm saying is that INTERPRETATION is a GOOD thing.

Sometimes being "over the top" is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered!!

[bobdadruma]

Vipercussionist, It is true that in many so called Blues clubs that I go to, I no longer hear Real Blues being played by the bands. The only time that I do hear Real Blues in these clubs is during an event like a Blues competition or similar.
On regular nights the bands play Rock sounding Blues.
Mustang Sally and the like!
They also add Funk, Soul, and Motown to the mix.
I quit the Blues band that I was in because I found that most people in these clubs didn't want to hear Blues anymore. There were no good paying gigs to be had.
The same is true with Jazz.
Unless you are in New York City or the like, there is not much of a market for Blues and Jazz.
I play in Connecticut mostly. The casino has a blues lounge. Unless B.B. King is playing, You will not hear Real Blues there either.
I have even heard band members from Rhode Island bands complain about the same thing last year when I played at the Ct Blues Challenge at Black Eyed Sally's in Hartford.

[larryace]

I initially approached blues from a rock and roll perspective, since that was my first love. My love for the blues came when after I was already grown and influenced primarily by rock and roll. I thought I'd try and kick it's ass too when I first started playing it.

But I came to realize that they are 2 different styles.

And I was writing under the assumption that the other musicians have to be steeped in the style for it all to work right.

The minute you start adding really over the top white sounding rock solos, it changes things, and starts to sound less like blues, and more like blues rock, where the drumming steps it up a notch energy wise. Which is nice too.

So yes you're right in your original post about it depends on which type of blues is being played. I was referring to the more traditional 40's 50's 60's Chess type Chicago blues, where restraint is key and the vocals and the soloist are the focus of the song.



.

[bobdadruma]

I took the same route as you Larry. I began playing Blues three years ago. I studied the great ones and I learned how to play like a Traditional Blues player. I fell in love with the trad style of blues. Willie Dixon, and the like! I collected music from the 20s and 30s also so that I could get the roots of the music. Bill Broonzy, Ma Rainey, Etc.

[larryace]

Yea Bob those old songs are such time capsules. After I learned about the mystique surrounding Robert Johnson, I got his 2 cd set, and listened to nothing but that for like a year and a half, just to see what all the fuss was about. On first listen I was like, "you're kidding, right?" But the more I listened to it, the more nuances I heard, and he really was something.

But he didn't just drop out of the sky. He lifted at least some of his music from his predessors.
Love in Vain is a direct lift of a song called "When the Sun Goes Down", recorded in 1935 by Leroy Carr, except Robert changed the words. Roberts recordings were in 1936 and 37.

But Blues fascinates the pants off me. It was borne out of pain and suffering and incarceration, and is the most expressive music to me. That's why I hate to see it desecrated ha ha

[bobdadruma]

Rocking Up the Blues is not new. The Brits claimed that trophy in the 60s. When I listened to the original versions of the 60 remakes, I found that I no longer liked the 60s rock versions as much. I still liked them, They just weren't the same to me.