bandleader issues...advice needed...

[drummerBUMMER]

guys, my bandleader is a good guitarist and i respect him for his talent...however, his band is christian music and im not so much into religion...we have great chemistry when we play, but nil on the personal aspect because not once have we ever sat down to exchange ideas and he keeps us back after practices for bible meetings...actually he forces us to do so and he preaches on and on, what the hell is with that?! im thinking of leaving without saying anything at all for his ignorance and lack of professional demeanour...and at heart the guy actually thinks im the one that needs change...any advice u guys mite have??

[DrumEatDrum]

If he's leading a Christian band, it doesn't sound all that unprofessional.

Now, if he never told you it was going to be a Christian band, I suppose you may have a point.

Other than that, you're not happy, so why stay?

Tell him you wish to leave the band. If you're gigging regularly, you might want to offer to stick around until he finds a replacement. If not, when, then it's not that big of a deal.
The key to to try not to burn your bridges, even if you never plan to play with him again.

[yesdog]

I had an audition last night with a contempary christian band . the music was exellent and the singing was exellent as well, I really enjoyed myself and was offered the gig to play every sunday. I declined on the spot. I do not go to church either . I just wanted to check it out. I would be doing these fine musicians a huge injustice. Its not my cup of tea.
But I am glad I checked it out and played. I learned they were in it for more than just the music
and I would have bitten off more than I could chew. To sum it up If you are not into religion
dont waist there time. I have all the respect in the world for poeple who dedicate there time and god given talents to what ever faith they belong to.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Don't let anybody preach at you if you don't want to hear it. If he holds you back, get him on the phone to me so I can quote Dawkins at him for three hours.

That's essentially what it would feel like for me.

[Pollyanna]

Ah, Richard Dawkin's "The Selfish Gene" is my favourite piece of science writing - fantastic stuff! He is careful not to extrapolate his ideas to humans but as a reader it's almost impossible not to.

Agree with others that if you're not religious it's not a great idea to play in a religious band unless you like the music enough to fake it, and you can keep your eyes open when the proselytising starts. I'd rather eat broken glass than sit through someone preaching at me.

Not even my new drum teacher talks at me - he just works with me to help me do the things I want to do. The operative words here are "with" and "at". One treats you like a person, the other as an object. The latter is objectionable IMO.

[techristian]

I have all the respect in the world for poeple who dedicate there time and god given talents to what ever faith they belong to.

Perhaps give God given talents back to God?

If you don't want to play with them then quit.

Dan

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Perhaps give God given talents back to God?

Dan

Are they really God given talents?

[techristian]

Are they really God given talents?

Yes it takes lots of practice to become a good drummer, but I have seen people that could practice 8 hours a day at the drums and never become a decent drummer. Yes, and I'm not the one that first used that expression.

Dan

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Yes it takes lots of practice to become a good drummer, but I have seen people that could practice 8 hours a day at the drums and never become a decent drummer. Yes, and I'm not the one that first used that expression.

Dan

That doesn't necessarily invoke God. I'm an atheist.

[bobdadruma]

Pushing your personal views on people that don't want to hear them is rude, boring, and wrong! Only a fool, a religious zealot, or a politician would do such a thing!

[yesdog]

That doesn't necessarily invoke God. I'm an atheist.

Be fore this thread gets way out of hand the bottom line is advice for somone who is unhappy with his band leader. No has to be forced to do anything. Like me and other people said if you dont like it quit. unfortunatly when the word religon is used it turns into
this stupid nonsense. So lets leave that out and talk drums!!!! eveyone is alowed to choose what they whant to do its called free will.

[larryace]

The right advice was already given. No need for redundancy.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Be fore this thread gets way out of hand the bottom line is advice for somone who is unhappy with his band leader. No has to be forced to do anything. Like me and other people said if you dont like it quit. unfortunatly when the word religon is used it turns into
this stupid nonsense. So lets leave that out and talk drums!!!! eveyone is alowed to choose what they whant to do its called free will.

You're assuming I'm going to get militant? Of course not. Please, don't patronise me.

[justjim]

DrumEatDrum's advice looks pretty solid

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Agreed on the religious aspect, it's an argument I have no wish to buy into.

But as for your playing situation, I tend to think that playing with a christian band will naturally entail exposing yourself to certain philosophies. The outward advertisment of 'christian music' would seem to denote that. Would you willingly join a neo-nazi punk outfit and then really be surprised to hear narrow-minded racial tirades and social prejudice rantings?

Horses for courses obviously, but if it's not a philosophy you subscribe to, then perhaps it's more benficial to you to find a playing environment with more 'like minded' people.

[yesdog]

We are all drummers on this forum for the most part lets use this tool to help each other out so we can be best that we can be. I'm Done.

[wy yung]

guys, my bandleader is a good guitarist and i respect him for his talent...however, his band is christian music and im not so much into religion...we have great chemistry when we play, but nil on the personal aspect because not once have we ever sat down to exchange ideas and he keeps us back after practices for bible meetings...actually he forces us to do so and he preaches on and on, what the hell is with that?! im thinking of leaving without saying anything at all for his ignorance and lack of professional demeanour...and at heart the guy actually thinks im the one that needs change...any advice u guys mite have??


Why did you take the gig? Was it just for money? If you aren't Christian it seems a strange gig to accept.

[Skitch]

That doesn't necessarily invoke God. I'm an atheist.

What do you scream during sex? Darwin?


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
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http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

What do you scream during sex? Darwin?


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw

I don't scream, she does. And it's not Darwin.

[Boomka]

Go, but do so gracefully and with the utmost professional courtesy. Do unto others....

[Big_Philly]

I don't scream, she does. And it's not Darwin.

Does she scream Mediocrefunkybeat!!?

Anyway, to the thread starter: I think it would be a good idea to bring it up with the guy. Tell him you're into playing with him, but not into getting forced to do bible studies. Tell him respectfully ;) If it doesn't work, then you're best off quitting the band.

I am a christian too, but I prefer not to evangelize by sitting people down at bible studies and telling them what's what. That does not work and endangers personal relations too.

[rogue_drummer]

Ah...Praise Bands! Been there done that, got the T-shirt! And it would take A LOT to get me back into a Praise Band again. Just becuase of some of the real jerks I've met and played with in a church environment.

And for all it's worth, I'm in a folk band now that consists of members who were burned and treated VERY poorly by various churches they were members of at one time or another. They are still religious and faithful, but they will not ever play in that environment again.

I'm not knocking church or religion, as I go to a church right now I really enjoy, BUT, whenever you start playing with "church" musicians, you'll sometimes find some real jerks, egos, nut-jobs, and the like all under the umbrella of "serving" church musicians. Sometimes in the name of the faith, they become religious zealots and fanatics and the environment can equal the Spanish Inquisition at times and become totally judgemental. Not good or healthy.

It takes all kinds, the trick is to find the type of musicians you really enjoy making music with and are friendly and compatable with. Good luck!

My .02 cents...

[TTNW]

guys, my bandleader is a good guitarist and i respect him for his talent...however, his band is christian music and im not so much into religion...we have great chemistry when we play, but nil on the personal aspect because not once have we ever sat down to exchange ideas and he keeps us back after practices for bible meetings...actually he forces us to do so and he preaches on and on, what the hell is with that?! im thinking of leaving without saying anything at all for his ignorance and lack of professional demeanour...and at heart the guy actually thinks im the one that needs change...any advice u guys mite have??

Quit without any drama. It's not worth it. I don't think you'll have any luck with him letting you abstain from after band bible studies. It's probably best to just move along.

[Skitch]

I don't scream, she does. And it's not Darwin.

You know MFB, I would make another snappy comment and it would be funny! You seem to take everything so seriously that I enjoy just watching work yourself up into a lather!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw

[Skitch]

Ah...Praise Bands! Been there done that, got the T-shirt! And it would take A LOT to get me back into a Praise Band again. Just becuase of some of the real jerks I've met and played with in a church environment.

And for all it's worth, I'm in a folk band now that consists of members who were burned and treated VERY poorly by various churches they were members of at one time or another. They are still religious and faithful, but they will not ever play in that environment again.

I'm not knocking church or religion, as I go to a church right now I really enjoy, BUT, whenever you start playing with "church" musicians, you'll sometimes find some real jerks, egos, nut-jobs, and the like all under the umbrella of "serving" church musicians. Sometimes in the name of the faith, they become religious zealots and fanatics and the environment can equal the Spanish Inquisition at times and become totally judgemental. Not good or healthy.

It takes all kinds, the trick is to find the type of musicians you really enjoy making music with and are friendly and compatable with. Good luck!

My .02 cents...

My experience as well......for one thing, I put myself thru a private Christian institution which required 12-15 hours of religion related courses to graduate. Neither here nor there until I get into a situation where someone starts talking about things whiich they are really not qualified to have an opinion. I also have been in a form of organized music since I was eleven (Jr. High, High School and college bands) so my experience should have held some credibility. Not to mention that I was pretty much the only person in the praise band who was playing 5 to 7 nights a week.

Also, my experience was that, while the "big, popular, fun to go to church" was the goal, the style of worship and preaching was basically kool-aid level. There was an emphasis for the musicians to come to practice with the songs learned, yet the singers never knew the songs' form. We would then be instructed to watch the singer chick hold one finger up for the verse and two fingers up for a chorus. Yeah, that's really going to take everything to the next level!

Then the excuse was, "Well, we want the spontaneity!" I told them them, that in any art form, consistency has to come before expression and that the most successful musical acts all hard to start with copying the recording; this is just simple common sense - it is a reference point common to everyone in the band and is easily accessed! It was like talking to a brick wall!

The most rewarding experience came when, after having two different versions of the same song, everything came to a train wreck. I told the guy in charge of everything that we have a consistency problem and that we needed to decide beforehand, the form of the song, how it would start and how it would end. I got some lecture from the forementioned chick singer that we as musicians didn't iunderstand where she was trying to go vocally. I told her that we musicians don't follow her; we play chords and rhythms. If she is off pitch because she doesn't know the song or is incapable of doing things the same twice, it is her problem, not ours.

It all ended with me explaining to the guy in charge that essentially I was all "Jesused" out." It wasn't fun anymore, that they didn't understand how live music works outside of their little world (most gigs end at 2 am and I had to be there at church at 8:00 am) and that I just neede to leave because the whole experience was a clanging cymbal (you know the scripture that I speak of). I didn't feel appreciated on any level since I would get home at 3,4 or even 6 in the morning and get what little sleep I could before getting back up and going and rehearsing for an hour, and then going home to get two hours sleep before I hosted a jam which started at four that afternoon (remember that we want to be a professional musician), and then run a sound gig at nine that night. I would also maintain the church drum kit often at my own expense which really was n't appreciated either.


We left on good terms but I don't know how long I will go before I play in a church band.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

You know MFB, I would make another snappy comment and it would be funny! You seem to take everything so seriously that I enjoy just watching work yourself up into a lather!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com
http://www.patentcoachmike.com
http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.facebook.com/mike.mccraw

Hey, that's actually me not being up in a lather! Cool as a cucumber over here.

Wait until I'm up in a lather. The Internet does not deliver my purpose well!

[rogue_drummer]

My experience as well......for one thing, I put myself thru a private Christian institution which required 12-15 hours of religion related courses to graduate. Neither here nor there until I get into a situation where someone starts talking about things whiich they are really not qualified to have an opinion. I also have been in a form of organized music since I was eleven (Jr. High, High School and college bands) so my experience should have held some credibility. Not to mention that I was pretty much the only person in the praise band who was playing 5 to 7 nights a week.

Also, my experience was that, while the "big, popular, fun to go to church" was the goal, the style of worship and preaching was basically kool-aid level. There was an emphasis for the musicians to come to practice with the songs learned, yet the singers never knew the songs' form. We would then be instructed to watch the singer chick hold one finger up for the verse and two fingers up for a chorus. Yeah, that's really going to take everything to the next level!

Then the excuse was, "Well, we want the spontaneity!" I told them them, that in any art form, consistency has to come before expression and that the most successful musical acts all hard to start with copying the recording; this is just simple common sense - it is a reference point common to everyone in the band and is easily accessed! It was like talking to a brick wall!

The most rewarding experience came when, after having two different versions of the same song, everything came to a train wreck. I told the guy in charge of everything that we have a consistency problem and that we needed to decide beforehand, the form of the song, how it would start and how it would end. I got some lecture from the forementioned chick singer that we as musicians didn't iunderstand where she was trying to go vocally. I told her that we musicians don't follow her; we play chords and rhythms. If she is off pitch because she doesn't know the song or is incapable of doing things the same twice, it is her problem, not ours.

It all ended with me explaining to the guy in charge that essentially I was all "Jesused" out." It wasn't fun anymore, that they didn't understand how live music works outside of their little world (most gigs end at 2 am and I had to be there at church at 8:00 am) and that I just neede to leave because the whole experience was a clanging cymbal (you know the scripture that I speak of). I didn't feel appreciated on any level since I would get home at 3,4 or even 6 in the morning and get what little sleep I could before getting back up and going and rehearsing for an hour, and then going home to get two hours sleep before I hosted a jam which started at four that afternoon (remember that we want to be a professional musician), and then run a sound gig at nine that night. I would also maintain the church drum kit often at my own expense which really was n't appreciated either.


We left on good terms but I don't know how long I will go before I play in a church band.


Wow! Sounds like you've been through the ringer too!

My story echos a lot like yours.

[Davo-London]

guys, my bandleader is a good guitarist and i respect him for his talent...however, his band is christian music and im not so much into religion...we have great chemistry when we play, but nil on the personal aspect because not once have we ever sat down to exchange ideas and he keeps us back after practices for bible meetings...actually he forces us to do so and he preaches on and on, what the hell is with that?! im thinking of leaving without saying anything at all for his ignorance and lack of professional demeanour...and at heart the guy actually thinks im the one that needs change...any advice u guys mite have??

What are you doing there? You shouldn't be in a Christian band when you are not a Christian. Leave and explain you are not a Christian and you feel uncomfortable about it.

Peace
Davo

[Davo-London]

I had an audition last night with a contempary christian band . the music was exellent and the singing was exellent as well, I really enjoyed myself and was offered the gig to play every sunday. I declined on the spot. I do not go to church either . I just wanted to check it out. I would be doing these fine musicians a huge injustice. Its not my cup of tea.
But I am glad I checked it out and played. I learned they were in it for more than just the music
and I would have bitten off more than I could chew. To sum it up If you are not into religion
dont waist there time. I have all the respect in the world for poeple who dedicate there time and god given talents to what ever faith they belong to.

Why would you waste everybodies' time doing this? Surely that's a worse felon than anything else that's being discussed.

Davo

[yesdog]

Why would you waste everybodies' time doing this? Surely that's a worse felon than anything else that's being discussed.

Davo

A-It was not somthing I was into
B-It was a long drive and could not go to rehursal 2 nights a week and playing every sunday
If you cant do what poeple are expecting of you thats waisting There time and mine.