Experience with bad instructor

[nhzoso]

Had a pretty bad instructor last year and started to think about a few things he told me.


I was wondering if one of the drills he told me to do is any good, basically it's to hold a big hammer or huge Hatchet like he had (kinda creepy) by the handle like it's a drum stick. Hold your arm straight out in front of you and lift the huge heavy viking type war tool up and down at the wrist to help build up the small wrist muscle's.

I remember doing it a few times and felt something pop in my wrist which scared me so I stopped doing it but I am starting to think maybe I should do it with a lighter instrument, like maybe 2 snare drum sticks or something.

He was the only instructor I ever heard of who charged a reasonable $45 an hour and each lesson took at least 2-3 hours, he never charged me more than the 1 hour but I never really got anything out of the extra hours either. I think he just wanted to talk drums more than actually teach anything.

Any tips would be appreciated.

[wy yung]

Had a pretty bad instructor last year and started to think about a few things he told me.


I was wondering if one of the drills he told me to do is any good, basically it's to hold a big hammer or huge Hatchet like he had (kinda creepy) by the handle like it's a drum stick. Hold your arm straight out in front of you and lift the huge heavy viking type war tool up and down at the wrist to help build up the small wrist muscle's.

I remember doing it a few times and felt something pop in my wrist which scared me so I stopped doing it but I am starting to think maybe I should do it with a lighter instrument, like maybe 2 snare drum sticks or something.

He was the only instructor I ever heard of who charged a reasonable $45 an hour and each lesson took at least 2-3 hours, he never charged me more than the 1 hour but I never really got anything out of the extra hours either. I think he just wanted to talk drums more than actually teach anything.

Any tips would be appreciated.


OMG!

I would simply look for a better qualified teacher. Ask a respected drum shop for advice.

[caddywumpus]

Wow! That sounds pretty bad. Um, ask other drummers in your area if they have any recommendations for instructors. Also, drum shops and music stores, but try to ask people who have actual experience learning from the instructors.

[jeffwj]

I think Joe Morello once said someone asked about practicing with hammers or some other ridiculously heavy object . Of course, Joe replied with some witty comment. But no no - please no hammers.

If you want to locate a good teacher in your area, let us know where you are from. One of us should know of someone who uses STICKS!

Jeff

[Monica McCoy]

Hammers?! That's easy! My teacher has me do it with watermelons.

[Styx]

Yipes!!!!! Hammers for wrists??? What is this world coming to?? Does a golfer practice his swing with cricket bat??? I think not, 2 different tools for two totally different jobs. We play drums with drum sticks, so practice with drum sticks, period!!!!

[dairyairman]

that's a good one! you'll only get tendinitis from that! that or firewood.

i had a teacher who made me play very slowly on a pad with solid metal drumsticks. that's all i did with him for a whole year. he was definitely a "back to basics" type of guy.

i had a band conductor in middle school who wouldn't let us play any music. all we played was scales for the entire year. i played glockenspiel or tapped out rhythm on a snare.

it's a miracle i stayed with drumming after enduring those kooks.

[Fiery]

Hammers?! That's easy! My teacher has me do it with watermelons.
Watermelons? Oh, what I'd give to have to work with watermelons! Mine makes me do it with bowling balls... With wrist weights!

[zambizzi]

Yipes!!!!! Hammers for wrists??? What is this world coming to?? Does a golfer practice his swing with cricket bat??? I think not, 2 different tools for two totally different jobs. We play drums with drum sticks, so practice with drum sticks, period!!!!

Maybe YOU do...I like to use hammers. You can't be metal if you don't play steel barrels with giant medieval battle hammers.

[theindian]

Does using heavier objects help with playing? Can wrist/ankle weights or heavy sticks give you more control etc. than regular practice?

[wy yung]

Does using heavier objects help with playing? Can wrist/ankle weights or heavy sticks give you more control etc. than regular practice?

Wrist and ankle weights can cause great damage. I am a martial arts master and we learned some years ago that these cause serious injury. One can use heavier sticks of course, but do avoid the joint weights. Much better to build strength with a proper body building regime.

[theindian]

I had kinda figured that weights were not a good idea, so I have stayed away from those so far. I saw a video with Gene Hoglan advocating ankle weights to improve foot control/speed and I was kinda surpirsed.

[wy yung]

I had kinda figured that weights were not a good idea, so I have stayed away from those so far. I saw a video with Gene Hoglan advocating ankle weights to improve foot control/speed and I was kinda surpirsed.

He'll change his mind when he has trouble with his knees. It's different for me because I was using weights back in 1980 and learnt my lesson. We all thought our punches and kicks would be faster but really it was not true. Strength does not equal power as much as speed does and you cannot kick or punch, or drum, fast with weights hanging from you.

I offer this advice as a martial artist first and foremost.

My qualifications are as follows:
4th dan Tae Kwon Do ITF.
2nd dan Tae Kwon Do WTF.
1st dan Hap Ki do.
2nd dan Shotokan karate.
Qualified Muay Thai instructor.
Hsing I master.
Wing Chun instructor.
Boxer.
Chinese wrestling instructor.
Chin Na instructor.


Plus assorted styles of martial arts I never bothered to grade in. 28 full contact wins, no losses.

I was busy as a young man.

I no longer train due to a previous serious illness. I am in fact carrying some weight that developed after I stopped trainning. At least I got drumming back. I must settle for that. But boy, do I love martial arts.

[Styx]

Maybe YOU do...I like to use hammers. You can't be metal if you don't play steel barrels with giant medieval battle hammers.


LOL, what ever floats your boat dude!!! You should have pretty lean and mean looking arms flaying those hammers around all day!!!

[Fiery]

He'll change his mind when he has trouble with his knees.
It's possible he already does. As far as I know, he uses a walking stick.

[Ekim]

I wouldn't depend on a good shop referring you to a good teacher. I went to a lame instructor that gave me no input other than "do this out of the book". After the first session, I could have just taught myself.

[thelimpingtoad]

I was wondering if one of the drills he told me to do is any good, basically it's to hold a big hammer or huge Hatchet like he had (kinda creepy) by the handle like it's a drum stick. Hold your arm straight out in front of you and lift the huge heavy viking type war tool up and down at the wrist to help build up the small wrist muscle's.

OMG!!!! NOOOOOOO!!!! that just SOUNDS like a bad idea... and in my experience, if it SOUNDS bad it usually IS bad... I would suggest getting some chop-builder sticks (the big metal ones) and playing them on a heavy duty practice pad if you're looking to build chops... but swinging a hammer or axe is totally different.
Wow...
How old are you? I wonder if this guy teaches little kids to get daddy's hatchet and swing it around to build muscles?!

[nhzoso]

I wouldn't depend on a good shop referring you to a good teacher. I went to a lame instructor that gave me no input other than "do this out of the book". After the first session, I could have just taught myself.

Ya know I have pretty much run into this with every instructor I have had. I just figured it was the norm. We start in on a book then after a week or 2 it feels like I am giving him $45 and hour to sit and watch me go through the rest of the book? What gives?

Is it normal for an instructor to ask what you want to work on next? Should'nt he be able to tell what would benefit me, especially after giving me about 10+ lessons?

I am pretty much ready to give up the lessons and go through a few books myself. Would save me some money. I have had 7 instructors in 4 years. What kills me is they all want you to commit to once a week when in reality you need atleast 2 weeks in between lessons to have the time to really learn it, unless your a kid and really starting from day 1.

Kind of a llittle frustrated with the whole experience.

[jeffwj]

I am pretty much ready to give up the lessons and go through a few books myself. Would save me some money. I have had 7 instructors in 4 years.

Don't give up on your search. I had some drum teachers that didn't me much. If I just stopped my search back then, I would never have studied with the teachers that I did. In fact, I started studying with Steve Fidyk back in high school and I still continue to take lessons off of him a few times a year.

Please tell us where you live. If you want to be more anonymous online, just tell us which state/province etc. We will try to recommend someone in your area.

...they all want you to commit to once a week when in reality you need atleast 2 weeks in between lessons to have the time to really learn it, unless your a kid and really starting from day 1

Weekly lessons are the best way to check a student's technique and progress. It allows for corrections before a bad habit develops and becomes ingrained. I sometimes have an advanced student that comes to me for a lesson once every now and then. But that is usually because they are driving a good distance to study. For advanced students, a one off lesson may prove beneficial, but for beginner or intermediate students, a regular lesson schedule is needed.

Ya know I have pretty much run into this with every instructor I have had. I just figured it was the norm. We start in on a book then after a week or 2 it feels like I am giving him $45 and hour to sit and watch me go through the rest of the book? What gives?
For beginner and intermediate students, working out of a book is often the best way to get down the basics. The fundamentals of reading and rudiments are covered by most method books. I do know that there are instructors out there who just go from page to page, watching the student play and offering a comment now and then. But I like to think of a book as a teaching aid. It helps me to teach - it does not teach for me. My students cannot get the same experience by buying the book and working on it themselves. This is because I use the book to introduce concepts. The book may not have stickings, so we will stop and discuss sticking concepts. The book may have rolls that could be phrased as 5 stoke rolls, 7 stroke rolls, etc. We will talk about what roll pulse to use to get a specific feel.

Is it normal for an instructor to ask what you want to work on next? Shouldn't he be able to tell what would benefit me, especially after giving me about 10+ lessons?
I don't think that's something that I would ask a beginner or intermediate student. I do have a plan and general curriculum that I follow, although I do need to tailor it a bit to fit a student's needs and interests. For advanced players, I will ask them what they need to work on. But most of the time they will tell me. For instance, if someone comes in and says that they are auditioning for a cruise ship, I know that we need to go over a ton of different styles and make sure the student's sight reading is at a proficient level.

I have seen people on this forum say that I am probably a very good teacher. Now, those people never met me or took a lesson with me. But they can tell from what I write that I am serious and that I have a knowledge of the instrument and its pedagogy. So, if they can tell that without even meeting me in person, you should be able to find out about your teacher before taking the first lesson. Don't just schedule a lesson and come in saying, "I'm here - teach me." Talk to the teacher first. Ask him/her about their strategies - what a usual lesson is like - what their performing experience is - what their teaching experience is. You should be able to "feel out" or "weed out" the good teachers from the not so good.

Jeff

[thelimpingtoad]

Weekly lessons are the best way to check a student's technique and progress. It allows for corrections before a bad habit develops and becomes ingrained.

For beginner and intermediate students, working out of a book is often the best way to get down the basics. The fundamentals of reading and rudiments are covered by most method books. I do know that there are instructors out there who just go from page to page, watching the student play and offering a comment now and then.

I think these two statements are pretty important for people that have the "i don't need a teacher" line of thinking... the fact is that even after you have learned proper technique a teacher will watch and make corrections to it while you're playing. Its really easy to have that pinky come off the stick and not realize it... etc. these are things the teacher can observe and comment. Also feel is very important too... you might be able to read the notes straight out of the book but to learn the correct feel is something else all together.
I do feel however that once you reach a certain level of being able to play, regular lessons can probably subside and you can just work on your own to learn new concepts... at this point you could go and visit a teacher for a lesson everyonce in a while or to learn something that you're having trouble with etc.

I don't think that's something that I would ask a beginner or intermediate student. I do have a plan and general curriculum that I follow, although I do need to tailor it a bit to fit a student's needs and interests. For advanced players, I will ask them what they need to work on. But most of the time they will tell me.

Yeah... i think that's something definately best left for more advanced players... how can someone just starting out even know what they want to work on? And if they do have ideas that's fine to mention to a teacher but to outright just ask "so what do you want to do next" doesn't seem right.

And btw... i agree jeff, you do sound like a really good teacher... your posts are so insightful, knowledgeable and you sound very patient in your posts. If i lived closer I'd definately come in every once in a while for some education. :)

[jeffwj]

And btw... i agree jeff, you do sound like a really good teacher... your posts are so insightful, knowledgeable and you sound very patient in your posts. If i lived closer I'd definately come in every once in a while for some education. :)

Thanks, I didn't make that comment to stroke my own ego, but I did want to make the point - If you hear someone talk and answer your questions, you will sort of know whether or not that person is knowledgeable on the subject. I think one of the worst things someone could do is go to a teacher blindly without researching or talking to the teacher beforehand.

Jeff

[Three]

Haha, I discovered the other day that Moeller doesn't work with hammers. I had to hit a stake into the ground and thought "Oh man, a big Moeller whip will work for this - lots of power with minimum effort, I'll probably get it right into the ground in one hit...."

I ended up missing the target and nearly snapping my wrist! Lesson learnt.

[djpin89]

Haha, I discovered the other day that Moeller doesn't work with hammers. I had to hit a stake into the ground and thought "Oh man, a big Moeller whip will work for this - lots of power with minimum effort, I'll probably get it right into the ground in one hit...."

I ended up missing the target and nearly snapping my wrist! Lesson learnt.

hhahah!

Sorry but this is hilarious

[nhzoso]

I stopped the lessons for now but I will want to start back up again in the near future. Jeff I am in Rochester, NH Let me know who you have in mind. I have had 5 different instructors in this state and after about 3 lessons they all ask me whats next. I guess I need to define what it is I want and make sure they understand it, rather than just getting a book and having them watch me play from it.

I would really like to learn to hear a song, then transcribe it, then play it. I did this with a few instructors and they always say well thats close enough you can get by with that? Maybe I am asking to much, plus I think here in NH most instructors are just very good drummers that for one reason or another are just trying to get by and are not really instructors per se. Maybe it's because I am 40+ and they are all used to teaching kids I don't know.

I am curious as to who you come up with Jeff, I bet I have been to atleast one of them, but I appreciate any help you can give me here.

[jeffwj]

Are any of these teachers near you?

http://www.vicfirth.com/education/edteam_roster_state.php?state=NH

Jeff

[Fiery]

Haha, I discovered the other day that Moeller doesn't work with hammers. I had to hit a stake into the ground and thought "Oh man, a big Moeller whip will work for this - lots of power with minimum effort, I'll probably get it right into the ground in one hit...."

I ended up missing the target and nearly snapping my wrist! Lesson learnt.
But it does work with hammers, perfectly. Just use proper Moeller, not an over-the-top hand-waving-wrist-snapping interpretation that a lot of people call Moeller.

[nhzoso]

Hey Jeff, one of them I took a lesson with but I don't think he is right for me. There are 2 who are very close but there are no e-mails for them. The guys in Dover.

[wy yung]

Hey Jeff, one of them I took a lesson with but I don't think he is right for me. There are 2 who are very close but there are no e-mails for them. The guys in Dover.

What is your current level of playing?

[nhzoso]

What is your current level of playing?

I would say somewhere between beginner and intermediate. I have been sticking to the rock side of things for now.

[groovemaster_flex]

Had a pretty bad instructor last year and started to think about a few things he told me.


I was wondering if one of the drills he told me to do is any good, basically it's to hold a big hammer or huge Hatchet like he had (kinda creepy) by the handle like it's a drum stick. Hold your arm straight out in front of you and lift the huge heavy viking type war tool up and down at the wrist to help build up the small wrist muscle's.

I remember doing it a few times and felt something pop in my wrist which scared me so I stopped doing it but I am starting to think maybe I should do it with a lighter instrument, like maybe 2 snare drum sticks or something.

He was the only instructor I ever heard of who charged a reasonable $45 an hour and each lesson took at least 2-3 hours, he never charged me more than the 1 hour but I never really got anything out of the extra hours either. I think he just wanted to talk drums more than actually teach anything.

Any tips would be appreciated.

NO. BAD INSTRUCTOR. If I could, I'd slap him on the wrist and tell him to never talk to anyone about drums ever again. That's a terrible exercise. That's the wrong kind of strength development. You want endurance. Louder sound doesnt come from pounding harder, it comes from technique. Go to a local drum shop, be like "I want an instructor, please!" and you shall get a good instructor. Trust.

[Sardaukar]

Yes, no hammers, but the idea is actually not far from good. I used to play and practice with heavy, 2b sticks, and even the military type of bad ass sticks, and I'm sure that they have helped me develop my technique 10 times faster than if I'd have used 7a:s all the time. I've played drums for like 4 years now, and I think my technique is pretty clean considering the use of time.

So my advice is that you should try heavier sticks and not only a practice bad but also a pillow or a floor tom.

[jeffwj]

Hey Jeff, one of them I took a lesson with but I don't think he is right for me. There are 2 who are very close but there are no e-mails for them. The guys in Dover.

I will email Michael from Vic Firth and PM you with the Dover teachers' contact info.

Jeff