Fast Singles & Traffic Accidents

[aydee]

I've been told I've got really fast hands.

( somewhat messy though.. also been told that by people who should know better.)

My singles are decent and I can get around the kit quite well with them, but for the life of me I cant do the Tony Williams-Kenwood Dennard-type-thing-with-the-hands-moving-from-tom-to-tom-with-very-fast-singles, without missing a beat or skidding & crashing into the sides and rims, if you know what I mean.

You know... the brrrrr-brrrrrr-brrrrrrr-brrrrrrrrs, randomly between the snare and the toms without losing a beat?

I think my stick heights for the fast singles is pretty low because I'm using more finger in the strokes, so that could be a problem... I dont know..

any ideas on how to improve/practice this particular skill? Is there an ideal sticking principle to move from tom to tom with fast singles?

[denisri]

Hi
Start in very slow motion...Around quarter note equals 53BPM..and work the tempo up over several months. Denis

[aydee]

Thanks Denis, ya, slo is the name of the game.

Lutz, thanks a mil for for comprehensive PM.

[Ekim]

Is the PM something you can share with the whole class or should I just shut up and go away? :)

[aydee]

Is the PM something you can share with the whole class or should I just shut up and go away? :)

No I cant Ekim. Not unless he okays it.It was a PM.

[spleen]

I've been told I've got really fast hands.

Ya know Abe, I have heard that from some of the ladies...(sorry--couldn't resist!)

When I was younger, I marched drum corps and played tenors, where it's common practice to play fast single stroke exercises/patterns across the multiple drums. There's sort of a "sweeping" motion where your playing position remains similar to what it is when you are playing on one drum but you are moving your arms side-to-side across multiple surfaces.

So one of the things I've done on a drum kit is practice single stroke exercises ala drum corps, again, breaking the notes up between various surfaces like I would on a set of tenor drums. Of course, on a kit there is the added challenge of moving not only horizontally, but also vertically. For me, doing these kinds of exercises also creates some subconscious "memory" of where the drums are, which helps with accuracy when you're really flying around.

Hope that helps in some way. Of course, it would be easier to show you in person so, if you're ever in my neck of the woods...;-)

My best to you and your family Abe,

spleen

[aydee]

Tell em to call me!!!!!

Hey bud, long time no see..

..ahh, you talk of the happy days ; )

Ya, see i figured it has something to do with muscle memory and one needs to stay in a somewhat locked position from the elbows up to keep the sticks in position.
See, I can play it but it messy and always not smooth. I realize the slow and sure approach to the whole thing, but you have confirmed my suspicion that it does involve some structural economies of movement too. ( Did you see Thomas Prigeon's solo on MD 08? He burns these up too..)

[sciomako]

So one of the things I've done on a drum kit is practice single stroke exercises ala drum corps, again, breaking the notes up between various surfaces like I would on a set of tenor drums

Hi Spleen,

Are there some patterns more effective than the others in training the control and accuracy?

[aydee]

Thank you Dave M for your PM & for your offer. Much appreciated.

[Pollyanna]

Hey Abe, what are you doing to us here???

It feels like when someone says, "Maree just told me what Sue's did! Did you hear? Un-be-lievable!!"

"Really?? What did she do?"

"Oh, sorry ... I promised I wouldn't tell anyone ..."

[aydee]

Apologies Polly, I have no idea why this thread is encouraging a spate of people trying to help me via PMs and not on the thread itself.

All I'm doing is acknowledging their copyright, and their right as authors to publish first.
Our good friend Lutz has some terrific exercises.......BUT I'll let him tell you about them.

I really do apologize.

: )

[thelimpingtoad]

You may also want to look at your drum positions... make sure your stick tip can easily reach all of them comfortably... I too played tenors in drumline... it is very similar and I can say that it definately helped me with my fills on the kit.
Muscle memory definately does play a huge part in this but like i said, all of your toms should be in positions that are easy to hit that way you don't have to stretch or move too much to hit them.
Try playing alternating sticked triplets with accents on the down beats. play the 2 non-accented notes on the snare and just the accents on the toms... just change which drum you play for the accent each time... this will make good use of both right and left.. work it at different speeds until you are very comfortable hitting all of them from your snare.. then try doing the same thing but make one of your toms the primary drum and accent with the other hands.
Also doing sweeping fills as triplets and 16ths across each tom (1e on top, &a on 2nd, 3e on floor, &a on another drum etc) will help you build the motion to sweep between drums. Doing it with triplets will prove more difficult because your left will have to get to the next tom to the right for every other triplet.
but yeah... just keep working it all with a metronome and build up speed until you can comfortably do what you're trying to do.
I don't know exactly what "brrr brrrr brrr" means unless you're really cold so i can't say what you're trying to do.. :)

[aydee]

I don't know exactly what "brrr brrrr brrr" means unless you're really cold so i can't say what you're trying to do.. :)

lol, thems bees the sounds uneducated drummers like me make.. !!

Great advice, thanks..

I'm not totally happy with my tom heights ( 22" BD doesn't help..)
Sweeps are not a problem, but moving in random patterns e.g. snare-floor tom-1st mounted tom- snare-2nd mounted tom, is when the trouble starts.

Alternate sticked triplets....hmmm, now thats a thought.

[Pollyanna]

Abe, I know you're just being ethical and no need to apologise, I'm just givin ya crap for the same reason Hillary climbed Everest :)

There's no application for flowing fills in my band's music anyway; I'm just curious about how they're done because I tried to fake it in the old days when I heard Tony play fills like that in a solo on Stanley Clarke's first album. A fair bit of rim-clicking going on in my rendition.

Cindy B was a big Tony fan and I saw her playing similar fills on a YouTube solo but I can't find it now. I remember she played them cleanly ...

[thelimpingtoad]

lol, thems bees the sounds uneducated drummers like me make.. !!

Great advice, thanks..

I'm not totally happy with my tom heights ( 22" BD doesn't help..)
Sweeps are not a problem, but moving in random patterns e.g. snare-floor tom-1st mounted tom- snare-2nd mounted tom, is when the trouble starts.

Alternate sticked triplets....hmmm, now thats a thought.

Yeah that's kind of what i thought you were getting at... so yeah... try working the triplets with accents on the different toms... that will help you get okay with crossing over sticks to hit the different drums and stuff.

[BigSteve]

Hey Aydee,

You probably already had this suggestion but one of the things I do to warm up is go around the kit using singles. 8's, 6's, 4's, then 2's starting on the snare and working right then back left hitting the drums and the cymbals. I usually do this with a metronome. I then just hit the drums with the same patterns from 8 strokes down to two increasing tempo on the metronome until it's not comfortable...ala your traffic accident. I've even done this with my eyes closed so I can just feel my way around. I got this from Jack Bennett and it's helped me get aroung the set a little easier.

[spleen]

Hi Spleen,

Are there some patterns more effective than the others in training the control and accuracy?

Hi John!

Wow, there are so many exercises, most based on 16th note, sextuplet, 32nd note, etc., patterns where you are alternating single strokes. If I had the time, I would notate a few and post them up. In lieu of that, I would recommend searching around the web for drum corps exercises. Check out Jeff Queen's book ("The Next Level"), Scott Johnson (Blue Devils Book of Drumming, Sco Jo "Lick of the Week," etc.), as well as drum corps guys who are drum set artists (Pat Petrillo and Tommy Igoe come to mind). Oh yeah, check out Bill Bachman's books and videos as well (he posts on this forum occasionally--recently put up a video of a tenor solo that is absolutely sick!).

You might also find some videos of people blazing some singles around a kit, slow down the video enough to transcribe/learn the patterns they are playing, and then making up an exercise based on that. Aydee mentioned Tony, Kenwood Dennard, Thomas Prigeon...Kirk Covington is another person that comes to mind who is very good at this--many, many others as well.

I know I'm sort of biased toward the corps stuff because I love and miss it but it's also because that's the place where I constantly had my technique deconstructed and where I first learned to play very accurately, consistently, and efficiently. Plus, I find the exercises that come out of drum corps to be some of the hippest and most fun to play. However, I've found it is also important to translate these exercises to the textures, feels, and traditions of drum kit playing, lest you find yourself sounding like a "marching guy" reefing on a drum kit.

For me, one of the keys of developing fast singles around the kit while laying off the rims and gaining the ability to produce a consistent, quality sound, has been aiming for a very specific "playing area" on each drum and only allowing myself to increase the tempo of the exercise only when I am staying within those "areas" on each drum head. I've found this a good place to start for developing efficiency and accuracy but again, leaving it at that might have you sounding like a "marching guy" reefing around a kit (hey, didn't I already say that?). So, the next step would be to explore all of the possible "playing areas" for each drum that elicit different sounds/textures as well as various ways to manipulate "touch" (e.g., playing "through" the drum, "off" the drum, Moeller, etc.). So potentially, there's a long way to go with this. And I should add, my preference is to pursue all of this in the context of good timekeeping.

Anyway, hope some of this helps!

spleen

[sciomako]

Hi Spleen,

Thanks for your reply.


Wow, there are so many exercises

Exactly. That's why I asked if some exercises were more effective than the others. :-)

I know I'm sort of biased toward the corps stuff because I love and miss it but it's also because that's the place where I constantly had my technique deconstructed and where I first learned to play very accurately, consistently, and efficiently.

Actually, I admire those from the drum corps background. The tightness and in-the-pocket-ness is indisputable. My prime example is my drum hero Steve Gadd.

And I should add, my preference is to pursue all of this in the context of good timekeeping.

Agree completely. "Everything is Timekeeping(tm)."

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Abe, I know you're just being ethical and no need to apologise, I'm just givin ya crap for the same reason Hillary climbed Everest :)

There's no application for flowing fills in my band's music anyway; I'm just curious about how they're done because I tried to fake it in the old days when I heard Tony play fills like that in a solo on Stanley Clarke's first album. A fair bit of rim-clicking going on in my rendition.

Cindy B was a big Tony fan and I saw her playing similar fills on a YouTube solo but I can't find it now. I remember she played them cleanly ...

Where was Bill when Hillary was climbing Everest?
I had no idea she made that climb.

[aydee]

Where was Bill when Hillary was climbing Everest?
I had no idea she made that climb.

He was at the 1st base camp.( chik-a-boom )