Doubles and triplets with one foot

[JT1]

Hey folks well now i will begin by saying that i am a very keen double bass player. My single pedal technique is ok and it gets me by however i want to start learning doubles and triplets on one pedal (quite fast). This is mainly because if i find myself in a situation of playing without a double pedal, i would love to be able to execute this properly and still have full use of open hi hats. So i am reaching out to you oh wise single pedalers, come forth and spread your knowledge!

I know there is no secret technique to doing this and i need to practice and experiment but i am asking you all personally, what got you started playing these? What technique did you use? Did you throw yourself in to the deep end and let your foot figure out the motion or did you start slow and get faster?

I am doing a bit of toe-heel and trying that out also a bit of slide but i feel my loose tension is not allowing me to do this properly. Is tension a major factor in this or not? I would rather not adjust my pedal as i am really happy with the way it is right now.

Any advice and tips on how to get started would be greatly appreciated.

p.s sorry if this has already been posted before but i have done a search and couldn't find this specific topic.

[theindian]

Just play and let your foot figure it out. I am the other way around from you, being I use slide mostly. For me it naturally developed in my left foot when trying to play doubles. After which I applied it to the other foot. I use medium spring tension if that helps.

[thelimpingtoad]

Here's my technique...
I have my action on the spring very high... meaning my spring is very very tight... like rediculousy tight actually... i've never played another kick pedal as tight as mine. Most people probably would have trouble playing on my kick pedal.
I use heel-up style of playing with little rotation of my ankle for the primary stroke... but for double or triple strokes there is a slight ankle movement.
I also keep the ball of my foot high-up on the pedal and over to the right side a little where i actually twist my foot onto the side of the foot slightly because that is the most comfortable place for me to get the most control.
I also cut-off the bounce of the pedal back from the head to come down for the second stroke.
I will also find my foot rotates on the ball in its spot a little if i'm playing fast.
I think that's about it... i developed this to get quick doubles in on the kick. I'm sure there are other techniques to do the same thing but this is my approach.

[Delwrick]

Hey folks well now i will begin by saying that i am a very keen double bass player. My single pedal technique is ok and it gets me by however i want to start learning doubles and triplets on one pedal (quite fast). This is mainly because if i find myself in a situation of playing without a double pedal, i would love to be able to execute this properly and still have full use of open hi hats. So i am reaching out to you oh wise single pedalers, come forth and spread your knowledge!

I know there is no secret technique to doing this and i need to practice and experiment but i am asking you all personally, what got you started playing these? What technique did you use? Did you throw yourself in to the deep end and let your foot figure out the motion or did you start slow and get faster?

I am doing a bit of toe-heel and trying that out also a bit of slide but i feel my loose tension is not allowing me to do this properly. Is tension a major factor in this or not? I would rather not adjust my pedal as i am really happy with the way it is right now.

Any advice and tips on how to get started would be greatly appreciated.

p.s sorry if this has already been posted before but i have done a search and couldn't find this specific topic.

Well it sounds as if you play your pedal loose like mine. I literally just developed my foot twitches from playing along to punk rock and just not stopping. At first I sucked, but your foot just finds a way to naturally do it on it's own and that's how it happened for me. Let your foot adjust to the situation but in the end you just need to practice.

[JT1]

Thanks for the responses guys, i guess i just need to throw myself in and get my foot to work it out. Well now next question.

Which songs in particular metal/ punk display this use? I really need stuff to practice to.

[aydee]

Well, look at it this way.

Take some of the single pedal monsters.. John Blackwell, JoJo, Gerald Heyward.. all blaze, all with different foot techniques. All with different spring tensions.

John cranks his springs super tight, Gerald got them super-loose, Jojo is medium, so what does that tell you?

Its nothing more than practice. Singles, doubles, triplets, 8th notes, 16th notes...

One of the things I do for practice, which is also fun, is to replace a lot of the sticking with BD notes. Thats also sort of what Thomas Pridgen also talks about in MD'08.. He practices double or triples in place of a single BD notes. So now he can pretty do what most double pedal player can do, single footed.

[Tim Waterson]

Hey folks well now i will begin by saying that i am a very keen double bass player. My single pedal technique is ok and it gets me by however i want to start learning doubles and triplets on one pedal (quite fast). This is mainly because if i find myself in a situation of playing without a double pedal, i would love to be able to execute this properly and still have full use of open hi hats. So i am reaching out to you oh wise single pedalers, come forth and spread your knowledge!

I know there is no secret technique to doing this and i need to practice and experiment but i am asking you all personally, what got you started playing these? What technique did you use? Did you throw yourself in to the deep end and let your foot figure out the motion or did you start slow and get faster?

I am doing a bit of toe-heel and trying that out also a bit of slide but i feel my loose tension is not allowing me to do this properly. Is tension a major factor in this or not? I would rather not adjust my pedal as i am really happy with the way it is right now.

Any advice and tips on how to get started would be greatly appreciated.

p.s sorry if this has already been posted before but i have done a search and couldn't find this specific topic.

IMHO Develope the control for your foot Heel down that way you feel all the notes you are playing.
I have 3 double pedals all set with differnt tensions angles and beaters.
I also teach my trechniques to drummers on ANY pedal.
learning to accept and control the rebound is the key
if your happy with your pedal keep it that way.
overall I find tightrer springs give more speed and losseer gives more control try to find a middle ground.
Try to play patterns for fun with your foot while your keeping a groove not just doubles and triples.
heres a clip incorporating technques for the feet for the feet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOFXt0osG6c
Tim

[thelimpingtoad]

learning to accept and control the rebound is the key


I totally agree... its just like learning stick control... the beater does rebound off the head just like a stick does (although maybe not as much and its harder to allow to happen)... so many people play INTO the head instead of letting it bounce back (from the strike not just from the spring) but if you can use the rebound from the head you can actually play doubles and triples on the kick just like you do with a stick.

[ermghoti]

...Jojo is medium...

Wah? Jojo is, or was playing with a ridiculously loose tension. There is more than one story about his adjustment screw falling completely off during a gig, with him playing unaware and unaffected.

But, yeah, the tension is pure preference. These days, I lean towards moderately loose. The head will rebound the beater plenty, and the additional tension is just more work, and interferes with a slide technique.

[joeybeats]

IMHO Develope the control for your foot Heel down that way you feel all the notes you are playing.
I have 3 double pedals all set with differnt tensions angles and beaters.
I also teach my trechniques to drummers on ANY pedal.
learning to accept and control the rebound is the key
if your happy with your pedal keep it that way.
overall I find tightrer springs give more speed and losseer gives more control try to find a middle ground.
Try to play patterns for fun with your foot while your keeping a groove not just doubles and triples.
heres a clip incorporating technques for the feet for the feet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOFXt0osG6c
Tim

Great youtube exercise, Tim! Stayed with it most of a day and had a blast. Also used it with the hands for Moeller and really put a new spark into my practice routine. Thanks again, Tim. Joey

[Davo-London]

I've been playing for 5 years and only in the last year have I got my RF kick to do what I'm telling it to do! If you get my meaning. I have only recently got my tripples going nicely and repeatably. Obviously doubles are more important and you should start there. I would recommend to use the heel up technique. You can practice this without a pedal and get used to the motion.

A) Heel down ... raise toe
B) Heel up ... toe down (first beat)
C) Raise whole foot slightly and bring whole foot down (second beat)

So in a sense the raising of the heel doesn't stop at the first beat.

You can drive your office workers nuts doing this all day.

Then for a triple do A) B) B) C)

It is also good practice to do doubles as the last 1/16 and the first 1/16 of the new bar as well as the 1/16 and 2/16 of a bar as the feel is completely different.

I need a video.

Davo

[Davo-London]

Video as needed!

www.heathette.com/Videos/foot.avi

Like my Doc Martens?

Davo

[Tim Waterson]

Great youtube exercise, Tim! Stayed with it most of a day and had a blast. Also used it with the hands for Moeller and really put a new spark into my practice routine. Thanks again, Tim. Joey
Joey thanks for the kind words and glad to SPARK the drumming
I believe eventually we will be able to do most things with our feet that the hands are doing.
Tim

[icemanjs4]

Video as needed!

www.heathette.com/Videos/foot.avi

Like my Doc Martens?

Davo

Thanks for that video. I wish more people posted clear direct views like that which perfectly explain what they're trying to say. Fantastic!

[JT1]

I've been playing for 5 years and only in the last year have I got my RF kick to do what I'm telling it to do! If you get my meaning. I have only recently got my tripples going nicely and repeatably. Obviously doubles are more important and you should start there. I would recommend to use the heel up technique. You can practice this without a pedal and get used to the motion.

A) Heel down ... raise toe
B) Heel up ... toe down (first beat)
C) Raise whole foot slightly and bring whole foot down (second beat)

So in a sense the raising of the heel doesn't stop at the first beat.

You can drive your office workers nuts doing this all day.

Then for a triple do A) B) B) C)

It is also good practice to do doubles as the last 1/16 and the first 1/16 of the new bar as well as the 1/16 and 2/16 of a bar as the feel is completely different.

I need a video.

Davo

Thanks for the advice and vid Davo, very much appreciated i'm going to try this tonight!

[lecoma]

No SOUND on this youtube video....


IMHO Develope the control for your foot Heel down that way you feel all the notes you are playing.
I have 3 double pedals all set with differnt tensions angles and beaters.
I also teach my trechniques to drummers on ANY pedal.
learning to accept and control the rebound is the key
if your happy with your pedal keep it that way.
overall I find tightrer springs give more speed and losseer gives more control try to find a middle ground.
Try to play patterns for fun with your foot while your keeping a groove not just doubles and triples.
heres a clip incorporating technques for the feet for the feet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOFXt0osG6c
Tim

[Tim Waterson]

No SOUND on this youtube video....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOFXt0osG6c
Try again works fine on my pc
Tim

[Cuauhtemoc]

I see your reason for interest in this and of course technique can always grow and get better. But, how much of this is necessary and/or a macho thing? I ask because it seems like there's a badge of honor when you can do crazy things with one foot and yet if you played the same pattern with your hands you would actually do it with both hands. That tends to come from guys that are stubborn single kick players.

Sure, you can do fast patterns with one foot or one hand but depending on the tempo, you'll lose power and accuracy. If the music calls for it, fine, do it. But if it's for the sake of doing I think it's a waste of time.

For example, Nicko McBrain on "Where Eagles Dare" is amazing because he does it with one foot. I've always marvelled at it. But when Bruce Dickinson said it was Nicko's pride that made him do it more than the unavailability of a double pedal...that's the start of a pissing contest if you ask me. And while I marval at the beat you can tell on live recordings how much power he loses on the beat in comparison to the parts of the song when his foot is not that busy. But notice Nicko didn't have the same pride on "Face in the Sand" when his foot would've just fallen off if he did that track with one pedal.

It's your call but I suggest you look at all of the options. I used to be a stubborn single kick player, too but decided that in the end, most people don't care how "bad" you are. Just play the drums.

[Tim Waterson]

I see your reason for interest in this and of course technique can always grow and get better. But, how much of this is necessary and/or a macho thing? I ask because it seems like there's a badge of honor when you can do crazy things with one foot and yet if you played the same pattern with your hands you would actually do it with both hands. That tends to come from guys that are stubborn single kick players.

Sure, you can do fast patterns with one foot or one hand but depending on the tempo, you'll lose power and accuracy. If the music calls for it, fine, do it. But if it's for the sake of doing I think it's a waste of time.

For example, Nicko McBrain on "Where Eagles Dare" is amazing because he does it with one foot. I've always marvelled at it. But when Bruce Dickinson said it was Nicko's pride that made him do it more than the unavailability of a double pedal...that's the start of a pissing contest if you ask me. And while I marval at the beat you can tell on live recordings how much power he loses on the beat in comparison to the parts of the song when his foot is not that busy. But notice Nicko didn't have the same pride on "Face in the Sand" when his foot would've just fallen off if he did that track with one pedal.

It's your call but I suggest you look at all of the options. I used to be a stubborn single kick player, too but decided that in the end, most people don't care how "bad" you are. Just play the drums.

I have a drummer from England I worked with who is a strong single bass player and his goal was to play( face in the sand) he already told Nikko that he knew a drummer who could play it with one foot and his goal was to play it as well with one foot ..
after we worked on his foot technique he can now play it single foot and still be failry relaxed.That was his goal not ego.
I personally prefer the feel of single pedal grooves for those type of songs
I always try to play as much as I can with single pedal because i can still use my hihat
i like the sound of my hi hat LOL
of course I always bring my double pedal and if I cant make the notes clear with one foot of course i'll use 2
Tim

[JT1]

I see your reason for interest in this and of course technique can always grow and get better. But, how much of this is necessary and/or a macho thing? I ask because it seems like there's a badge of honor when you can do crazy things with one foot and yet if you played the same pattern with your hands you would actually do it with both hands. That tends to come from guys that are stubborn single kick players.

Sure, you can do fast patterns with one foot or one hand but depending on the tempo, you'll lose power and accuracy. If the music calls for it, fine, do it. But if it's for the sake of doing I think it's a waste of time.

For example, Nicko McBrain on "Where Eagles Dare" is amazing because he does it with one foot. I've always marvelled at it. But when Bruce Dickinson said it was Nicko's pride that made him do it more than the unavailability of a double pedal...that's the start of a pissing contest if you ask me. And while I marval at the beat you can tell on live recordings how much power he loses on the beat in comparison to the parts of the song when his foot is not that busy. But notice Nicko didn't have the same pride on "Face in the Sand" when his foot would've just fallen off if he did that track with one pedal.

It's your call but I suggest you look at all of the options. I used to be a stubborn single kick player, too but decided that in the end, most people don't care how "bad" you are. Just play the drums.

I like your frame of mind and you've almost completely convinced me otherwise. I guess it was because i didn't want to feel like i was cheating but at the end of the day isn't it what makes life easiest. However i'm hypocritical saying that because i would never buy a dualist pedal. No offence to deathmetalconga here but i just like the feel of using two feet for fast stuff rather than 1.

[Cuauhtemoc]

I recall saying that it's a great goal to improve one's technique. I would love to be able to play "Where Eagles Dare" as Nicko one day, who wouldn't?

What I tried to say was Nicko had the choice to play "Where Eagles Dare" with a double pedal and didn't. But chose to play "Face in the Sand" with a double pedal. Watch the first Iron Maiden history DVD and see what Bruce said about why Nicko wouldn't use a double pedal on "Where Eagles Dare." After all, he was there.

Finally, let's review another point I made: how many drummers insist on playing similar patterns that you might play with one foot with one hand? Bottom line, most of us lose power when he use one limb. That's because no technique is perfect.

I like playing my hi-hat, too and with a double pedal you can use the split pedal technique. At least then you can still use two feet and the hi-hat.

[stekarn]

sorry for bumping this thread but i got a question for tim waterson. in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOFXt0osG6c were you playing heel toe at 0:48?

[JT1]

sorry for bumping this thread but i got a question for tim waterson. in this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOFXt0osG6c were you playing heel toe at 0:48?

If you go to the drummers section of this forum, Tim has his own sticky thread. He usually answers every question he is asked so try asking him in there too.