Something We Should All Know!

[threecardmolly]

I would love to know how everyone views themselves as slowing down or speeding up. At the end of the day solid time is one of everyone's most important assets. I often feel like I will get to the end of the tune and be unsure of how solid the sections truly were in retrospect, or if we indeed sped up/slowed - where the accident happened (Was it a fill? Groove? Solo section?).
It feels as if I'm "colour blind" to tempo shifts under 10bpm.
What are your thoughts?

[Pollyanna]

After starting up playing again l found that I've been speeding up more than I used to.

Awareness is part of the battle. It helps to record the band at rehearsal and put a metronome to the recording. Keep doing that and you soon start picking up the culprits, often transitions, especially buildups where you're going for intensity. Fills are common trouble spots too. It's always about trying to falsely infuse energy when the real energy comes from being more focused.

I've also noticed some speedups in second verses. I think I worry that the song isn't kicking enough and try to get it moving. Our bassist seems to do the same thing.

Once you find the problem areas then practise with a metronome, especially playing the trouble spots above in your head or singing them aloud. Once you hear them "sitting" at the correct tempo and you're hearing it groove without speeding you've got it. Then all it needs is e-n-d-l-e-s-s repitition of those transitions etc to make it second nature.

[keep it simple]

Pollyana has some sound advice for you there. I don't use a metronome (perhaps I should), I find I can spot a timing drift from a mile away, but that's only from years of studio bashing. One tip I give to all players, take your drum track and play it at 1/4 speed. Practice this many times over. Playing stuff very slowly helps you in so many ways, timing included. It's really difficult to get slow stuff to sound right. Much more difficult than playing up to speed. It accentuates the spaces between groove functions and helps you focus on the trip up points such as transition from groove to fill & back again. Hope this helps.

[Dane777]

Hmm this is an issue for me aswell.
I just got back form the studio 30min
ago no joke and was wondering the same
thing. I was a lil bummed at my performance,
even though I know it's not overly noticeable.
I know it's natural to speed up n slow down since were
only human but still..
I cant help but feel bummed sometimes.

Alot of vetren session dudes don't want a really
solid time drummer. Theyre more into a drummer with
flexible feel. That can go in and out of the bpm but not
in a non tastefull way.
But even hearing that, I still practice to a click everyday.

[dairyairman]

i didn't realize how truly important timing is until i bought one of those zoom h2 recorders and started recording everything. that was a real eye opener! holy crap! i was speeding up every song like a wild man! i was also having problems with dragging or rushing fills, and general fluctuations. i was all over the place!

i learned that no matter what i can play technically, and i can play a lot, it's all junk if my timing isn't solid. listening back to those bad recordings gives me an uneasy squirmy feeling like i want to jump in there and do it over again. i'm sure it gives the audience an uneasy feeling too, but they probably don't know why. they just know the music "sucks".

since those early recordings i've gotten super touchy about timing and i really focus on it and work on it. the later recordings sound a lot better. i'm not %100 there yet, but i've come a long way!

[keep it simple]

Alot of vetren session dudes don't want a really
solid time drummer. Theyre more into a drummer with
flexible feel. That can go in and out of the bpm but not
in a non tastefull way.
But even hearing that, I still practice to a click everyday.

Practicing with a click is a great thing to do but you must also practice without one. So called "veteran session dudes" DO want a solid drummer, but with feel. What they don't want is someone who is clinical like a drum machine. You can be solid without keeping strictly to the timing of each click. Keep the click in the back of your mind. Practice working around it and deliberately coming away from it then returning to it, say every bar or so. Do this for a while then record yourself without a click & check your progress. Eventually you'll be able to regulate yourself. You're not trying to be metronome tight for each beat, you're trying to avoid timing drift. Two very different things. Remember, adjusting your timing within a groove or a fill is one of the biggest building blocks towards "feel". The other big one is dynamics (hard, soft, ghosts, etc). Practice at 1/4 speed as well. Doing these two simple (but difficult) things will help you more than you'll ever know.

[dairyairman]

one thing i've been doing lately is programming my metronome to click two measures on, then two measures off. it's fun to see how close to the beat you are when it comes back on after being silent for two measures. i'll either play a straight groove or a two measure fill during the quiet measures. as you might expect, playing a fill in perfect time is harder.

[keep it simple]

one thing i've been doing lately is programming my metronome to click two measures on, then two measures off. it's fun to see how close to the beat you are when in comes back on after being silent for two measures. i'll either play a straight groove or a two measure fill during the quiet measures. as you might expect, playing a fill in perfect time is harder.

Super great practice tip!

[dairyairman]

that was actually my drum teacher's idea!

[BigSteve]

Wow...that is a great idea. Now I'm going to have to go home and see if my metronome will do that! This is one of the things I love about Drummerworld, there is always something new to learn here from other drummers...and their instructors!

[denisri]

Hi
I have found the following really help make my time solid...practice everything you do at very low volume,relaxed and quarter note equals 53BPM.
Count out loud and make your hi hat the loudest sound on your set. When you can do this you can control your tempos and the band. Denis

[dankav]

Never take your eye of the ball on this one! I'm pretty steady, once playing a show with all kinds of samples and the click died, played a whole verse "deaf" and dropped in perfectly - I was really pleased with that. But in a much easier project I recently had that nasty surprise listening to a live recording and the tempo was way too fast. I think it's quite natural to speed up a little bit live, but within reason, so I've found I had to really exaggerate it, and it now sounds great, but be warned it feels very slow at first.

I'd recommend practice to a click, but also playing along to some tracks you like that push you a bit. And remember the click is your friend, if you can't hear it you're nailing it.

Or your heaphones have come out!

[Pollyanna]

one thing i've been doing lately is programming my metronome to click two measures on, then two measures off.

Some people were talking about this on another thread not so long ago. So I've just made a click track with spaces using Audacity:

1. Create click track (Generate-Click Track)

2. Decide on tempo, number of bars, type of sound, pitch and accents. Don't make it too long yet - maybe 16 or 32 bars.

3. Select the number of bars on the wave to be silenced and make it zero volume (Effect-Amplify)

4. Loop the track (Effects-Repeat) and set the number of repeats.

All was ok when I did it while playing beats but I couldn't resist using the break as solo space (duh!). Sobering. My "hero spots" sped up every time.

I love playing with the metronome set at super slow tempos (like 40 or 50bpm). It somehow manages to be both relaxing and traumatic all at once :)

[flowingwave]

I would love to know how everyone views themselves as slowing down or speeding up.

I use my application :)

[larryace]

Sometimes the bassists, keyboardists and guitar players pull the tempo along too. It's hard enough keeping things steady by ourselves, but when the other musicians play into the mix, you have to be super vigilant, sometimes even fighting them....which sucks. The whole band needs to practice to a click. And I know that hardly ever happens, but really that's what's needed. Everyone is responsible for the time, us especially, but that doesn't give the others a free pass to ignore meter and tempo.

[Pollyanna]

I agree Larry. Tomorrow night, if I don't forget to bring my iPod to practice (again), I'm going to try playing to a click in some of the problem songs and see how it works. It's not easy to get everyone to play to a click but if the drummer does then the others have no choice but to follow us!

As you said in the other thread, it's really cheating tempo-wise because ideally I should have the tempos hard-wired into me, but I'm thinking of it as belated training wheels. Once all the band's accustomed to playing the song in good time and tempo then we try taking the trainers off (and hopefully not be too wobbly :)

It'd be a bummer to have one of those "Hey, the time's gotta be rubbery, man" types in the band, though. There's rubbery and there's rubbery ...

[larryace]

Speaking of tempos, I noticed that there are some tempos which I have problems with. It's strange. I'm pretty steady on like 98% of my one bands songs, but there are 2 songs that always get away from me. One is a Lyle Lovett song, "Been So Good Up Till Now" played at 96 BPM. I just have a mental block maintaing this tempo. The bass player always pulls me and wins. Also "Born Under a Bad Sign" is notorius for an ever increasing tempo. Again, the bass player pulls me along, but it's not entirely his fault, I am to blame too by not holding him where he should be
Tempos are a real concern of mine. If someone else starts the song....I don't like it because they never give the tempo it's proper consideration, and when they start it noticeably off....I find it hard to establish the right feel for like the first minute of the song.
Honing fine details....never ends.

[Pollyanna]

I have problems around that tempo too. For me, it's BB King's The Thrill Is Gone. I either pump up the jam or overcompensate by starting too slow - and then speed up.

As per threecardmolly's post, I was insensitive to this when I first listened to our recorded practices and but when I ran a metronome next to it, the tempo was so crap I felt embarrassed to call myself a drummer!

Hence the training wheels.

I know part of the issue is that rock bands play a lot more faster tunes than my current band and I'm used to a level of energy that's not in this band an some old instinct is driving me (as well as the bass player and keyboardist). I guess when a song has a fair bit of slow groove drive like Thrill is gone or Bad Sign there's a temptation to take it to the next level instead of digging in. Speaking for myself, I don't want a song to plod and it's a fine line between plodding and digging into some mid tempos. Microtiming?

Sometimes at rehearsal I ask our our singer to set the tempo because he's really sensitive to it. He seems keen on the idea of me using click tracks.

[Pollyanna]

Ecchh. Scrap the iPod. I couldn't get it at the right volume - it was either too quiet or punching my eardrums out the other side of my head.

[danduffy1964]

Quote:" Alot of vetren session dudes don't want a really
solid time drummer. Theyre more into a drummer with
flexible feel."

Well said. Not a big fan of click track..however I use one for band rehearsal...NEVER in a live performance. You think The Stones laid down Sticky Fingers Album with a click track ? I seriously doubt it ..just sayin' ya know .

[ThUmPaH]

Sometimes the bassists, keyboardists and guitar players pull the tempo along too. It's hard enough keeping things steady by ourselves, but when the other musicians play into the mix, you have to be super vigilant, sometimes even fighting them....which sucks. The whole band needs to practice to a click. And I know that hardly ever happens, but really that's what's needed. Everyone is responsible for the time, us especially, but that doesn't give the others a free pass to ignore meter and tempo.

I agree totally.....I have had this discussion with band members many times (mainly in my younger years). Luckily in the past 10 years or so, I have played with some great players and this subject never came up. But once in awhile on some fill in gigs...a few key players that play "left hand bass" (no bass player on gig) have reminded me of this....they are NOTORIOUS. for pulling. Drummers aren't the only musicians/bandmembers that need to own a metronome.... :)

[larryace]

The best way I've found to get a good tempo is to detach. Play the song like you're recording the 50th take of it, and just want to get it done and go home. Don't "get into it" just play your part and don't get emotionally caught up in the fills and how good it feels. As wrong as that sounds, the end result (from my trials anyway) is when I detach and play it without getting all in to it, it sounds like I am "getting into it". It's backwards. I look at it like, I'm not allowed to "get into it" so the crowd can (and the recording sounds better, and the bandmates are more relaxed when you're not champing at the bit to try and add unnecessary energy, you should just play the part)
Charlie Chaplin used to say that most actors overact. He would give them the scene, what he wanted them to convey, and right before the camera rolled, he'd say, "now play the part poorly" In other words, don't overact, don't do too good of a job. I think it parrallels the point I'm trying to make. I used to be guilty of "overacting" Now it hardly ever happens thanks to my recorder, and I'm much happier on playback.

[dairyairman]

there's some truth to that. to keep from speeding up constantly i try to focus on relaxing. i don't try to act bored or detached, but i do try relax and play like i would at a normal practice. it's hard to relax when i'm nervous and there's a bunch of people watching and everyone is screaming and yelling, but if i really focus on it i can do it.

[ThUmPaH]

Some great points.....
I remember reading in many interviews/articles with some top drummers over the years (modern drummer) that they try to play the tune from the perspective of the listener. Meaning in a way as mentioned "detaching" sort of.It's something I have used and still do when on the gig.
I play and listen like I am listening to the tune/drums as a listener (listening to the band like an audience member or when in the studio I listen while laying the track down -click or not) like I would to my actual playback and we all know how anal and how we get out our best high powered microscope when playback rolls :). I take that perspective to a degree....not to the point it takes away from the performance.....Anyway,they went in to say in the interview that most of us with any years under our belts studying the art of drumming can't help but notice and feel when we hear a drummer speed up or drag or rush fills etc....So I guess it's the same technique...just you listening to yourself like you would listening to another drummer or a student of yours when you are "critiquing" them. It takes awhile to kinda get the feel for it and to be able to play normally while doing it...after a while you just automatically do it....Mind you some nights it's harder than others to get in that zone to be able to "step outside" your body for lack of better term...haha
Hope that makes sense.

[larryace]

Some great points.....
I remember reading in many interviews/articles with some top drummers over the years (modern drummer) that they try to play the tune from the perspective of the listener. Meaning in a way as mentioned "detaching" sort of.It's something I have used and still do when on the gig.
I play and listen like I am listening to the tune/drums as a listener (listening to the band like an audience member or when in the studio I listen while laying the track down -click or not) like I would to my actual playback and we all know how anal and how we get out our best high powered microscope when playback rolls :). I take that perspective to a degree....not to the point it takes away from the performance.....Anyway,they went in to say in the interview that most of us with any years under our belts studying the art of drumming can't help but notice and feel when we hear a drummer speed up or drag or rush fills etc....So I guess it's the same technique...just you listening to yourself like you would listening to another drummer or a student of yours when you are "critiquing" them. It takes awhile to kinda get the feel for it and to be able to play normally while doing it...after a while you just automatically do it....Mind you some nights it's harder that others to get in that zone to be able to "step outside" your body for lack of better term...haha
Hope that makes sense.

That makes perfect sense to me. Playing the drums is one thing. But listening to the entire net effect of all the musicians, and how you are blending with them (or not) WHILE you are playing the drums....is something I try and do as much as possible. (it's hard to maintain that all night) I have to keep my eyes open and focus on something straight ahead of me like 15 feet away and above my head, and use my "peripherial hearing" and try and capture the big musical picture, and how I'm affecting it, instead of just concentrating on my part. It is kind of stepping outside yourself and listening from afar, in your mind. Playing the drums is so deep and engrossing, fun and inspiring. They are like life itself.

[Toad]

Man, you people are wise. Dang eloquent too! I've been doing this, listening to the big picture as I play, listening as the recording machine will, trying to stay calm and not "rock out" mentally/emotionally. Good to know that some of the things I do are done by experts like you guys. I don't play in a band anymore, just to records but I record every time I play. Can't stress enough how it's helped me. Like the man said, if I concentrate on just doin' the thing correctly it comes out sounding like I'm really into it.

A long time ago maybe on The Johnny Carson Show, maybe not, somebody asked a great bandleader or somebody great (a musician, of course) how you learn to keep time. He just said, "Listen".

[FunkyJazzer]

Better to speed up than to slow down I always think.