John Riley (Jazz) Play-Along / Tom Grosset

[tomgrosset]

Hey drummerworld, it's been a while since I posted anything that falls into the "jazz" category but I finally got around to recording something. It's a play-along called "Speed Bumps Ahead" by John Riley ("Beyond Bop Drumming").

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vC3771Qg-7g

Check it out and tell me what you think.
And if you can, take a moment to subscribe, rate and comment on the video.

Thanks,
Tom

[lochday]

Great idea this recording. I didn't listen to the song with John Riley behind the kit but your set up fills, hits and punches seem to be adequately placed, and you have the whole thing swing, which is not that easy because the tempo for this song isn't really comfortable. Good job indeed.

[Drummer Karl]

Hi Tom!

Man, great to listen to some new swinging stuff from you here!
Firstly, let me tell you that I really dig this!!! Compared to the recording of the song you`ve done some time ago this is definitly a great improvement in my opinion.

Your playing is nice, I see cymbals wobbling big time and you`re playing these intensively! I like the idea of what`s going on in the beginning of the piano solo. Dynamics are the salt in the soup...either it makes it happening or not. In this case this was an awesome idea to keep it low after a huge crash...then this great crescendo! Huge. Or no...is there a word called huger? =)
And hey, I don`t know if that`s just imagination...but do I detect some Cory Cox style in your swing and how you inpret certain spots of the tune?

Your swing makes it sound "easy" and relaxed. I mean, most times it`s pushing the whole thing.
Though sometimes it`s a bit like a swing-hammock. It sometimes tends to be really laid back which I personally dislike.

Moreover, look at the seperate solo-section of the song! It would be nice to hear you getting those kicks. The tricky thing with it surely is (and yeah, you may know that) that the first one doesn`t come on the one of the bar but just an eighth note before that...I didn`t know that in the beginning and played it as a one and wondered why it sounds sooo pushing at this spot. Haha well, after some time I figured this out finally and luckily.

Generally I think (and yes, to mention a problem of my humble self) you`re playing liberated and some risky stuff. It`s fun listening to this version!

Well, and here is a final question for you: As I couldn`t imagine that the room sound makes it sound this way I`d like to ask you what recording euqipment you used. Which microphones? Two condensers (overheads) and a dynamic for the bass drum? Which models?
Also, how did you position them? And which mixer/preamp, interface did you use?

And most importantly: Damn, how did you kill those overtones of the cymbals and how did you get this great woody stick definition?? Sounds very smooth...maybe the EQ? Please please, tell me! :-)

Best wishes,

Karl

[aydee]

Tom, I agree with Lochday in that this was a really uncomfortable tempo, and you did a great job swinging it.

However, differently from Lochday, I felt that your accents and punctuations could have been a touch more sensitive to the piano solo.

I only say this because I dont want to go on endlessly complimenting you every time without adding something that might be helpful to you. ; )

great stuff. Again.

[tomgrosset]

Hi Tom!

Man, great to listen to some new swinging stuff from you here!
Firstly, let me tell you that I really dig this!!! Compared to the recording of the song you`ve done some time ago this is definitly a great improvement in my opinion.

Your playing is nice, I see cymbals wobbling big time and you`re playing these intensively! I like the idea of what`s going on in the beginning of the piano solo. Dynamics are the salt in the soup...either it makes it happening or not. In this case this was an awesome idea to keep it low after a huge crash...then this great crescendo! Huge. Or no...is there a word called huger? =)
And hey, I don`t know if that`s just imagination...but do I detect some Cory Cox style in your swing and how you inpret certain spots of the tune?

Your swing makes it sound "easy" and relaxed. I mean, most times it`s pushing the whole thing.
Though sometimes it`s a bit like a swing-hammock. It sometimes tends to be really laid back which I personally dislike.

Moreover, look at the seperate solo-section of the song! It would be nice to hear you getting those kicks. The tricky thing with it surely is (and yeah, you may know that) that the first one doesn`t come on the one of the bar but just an eighth note before that...I didn`t know that in the beginning and played it as a one and wondered why it sounds sooo pushing at this spot. Haha well, after some time I figured this out finally and luckily.

Generally I think (and yes, to mention a problem of my humble self) you`re playing liberated and some risky stuff. It`s fun listening to this version!

Well, and here is a final question for you: As I couldn`t imagine that the room sound makes it sound this way I`d like to ask you what recording euqipment you used. Which microphones? Two condensers (overheads) and a dynamic for the bass drum? Which models?
Also, how did you position them? And which mixer/preamp, interface did you use?

And most importantly: Damn, how did you kill those overtones of the cymbals and how did you get this great woody stick definition?? Sounds very smooth...maybe the EQ? Please please, tell me! :-)

Best wishes,

Karl

Hey thanks a lot for the comments guys. I very much appreciate it.

Karl,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I've been making sure I push the tempo with these play-alongs because most drummers (including myself) have tendency to fall behind the music and that kills it - the energy, the motion and the feeling just isn't there unless you're feeling the music and this song needed that "on the top" feel I think. This song is a tough one for sure but I wanted to take a shot at it and put it online. And yes, I've heard Cory's drumming lots of times and I've stolen some of his ideas ;) Recently though I've been listening to a lot of Ari Hoenig and Brian Blade.

As for the equipment, I'm using two Apex 185s for overhead mics, a D 112 mic for the bass drum and an Apex 775 for the snare. I have the bass drum mic very close to the bass drum head (but for some reason it didn't come through very well in the mix) and my overhead mics are about 3-4 feet above my ride cymbals and my snare mic you can see in the video. The interface that I used is the TubeFire 8.

And I'm not entirely sure how I got such a woody stick definition. That's a good question. I use Peter Erskine's ride stick, that may have something to do with it? I'm not sure - the overhead mics are very good though so that might be the reason why it comes through so clearly.

-Tom

[brittc89]

Tom,
Sunding very nice, its clear that youve been shedding your jazz playing. One thing Im hearing off the bat is you need to really think about the subdivisions in those hits at the bridge more, theyre just not happening right now, prime example at about the 130 mark. Alo, when you go to comp more than just bombs, the groove is suffering, check out 204. Again, check out those hits, youre just not nailing them. And make sure and not start dragging the beat back when youre going into the sax solo. Again, hits hits hits hits. I think you get my point now, NAIL THOSE HITS, i know youre capable of it, thats why its bothering me so much. Im going to grab my chart and see if Im hearing these right. I am. Just imagine if you were playing this tune with a band, I hate it to say it, but B section train wreck. Enough crticism though. TOm you sound so much better than last time i heard you. Really nice playing. Keep at it man.

[The Colonel]

Hi Tom


I agree with Britt - those hits aren't happening. You need to work on the placement of those hits to where you can do them in your sleep and not sorta-kinda know where they are (2:16). Then you can really start doing some interesting things over that stretch of the tune - especially at the end where you're soloing - and just to throw it out there [to everyone], a hit doesn't necessarily need to be played by crashing on the cymbal...at least not IMO...or play around the hit and not on the actual hit...you could try something like that to really understand the part - sort of like doing "Negatives" at the gym: Rather than focus on the *push* of a bench press, you focus - by going very very slowly - the movement of bringing the bar to your chest (and your spotter helps lift during the normal *push* of a normal press). So here, as an exercise, try playing the part (by yourself at first, and then with the recording) with 8th notes across the board except where the hits are - those will be rests (don't pay any attention to the tied notes - assume the initial hit is an isolated 8th note). Your understanding of the section will increase tenfold, and will help down the road in terms of *not-getting-thrown-off-by-awkward-syncopations-going-on-around-you*.

Also - right out of the gate, I feel there's a tendency to get behind the beat at times. Sorta fighting with the bassist's time here and there.

And maybe you don't hear them in your head while you're playing, but you don't touch the toms *at all* during the A sections - either during the head or during the solo sections. I think the only time you do is the pickup to the B section at the end of the sax solo. I think you're missing out on a lot of voice/sound-source there that can make the song more interesting. One of my favorite lines I've heard from both Art Taylor and Joe Chambers: We're Drummers, not Cymbalists. When the sax starts going off a bit more around 3:10 - give me some more meat with the drums.

Sorta-in-the-same-kinda-vein, there are moments where the pianist is giving some great comping parts - like the out-head - or shaping his solo rhythmically, or comping behind the sax's solo that you seem to miss, or go auto-pilot over. Sure, it's a play-along, so one might try to avoid playing what they know is coming, but there are some obvious moments where even it was in-the-moment/live, you should be all over what he's doing (at the 1:00 mark, I'd finish his phrase and carry it over the bar into the next few bars)

Enough criticisms:

You had some really nice comping ideas in some spots. Some nice subtle hi-hat w/foot/snare/ride stuff (1:11) and when you *did* go to the toms in the B section, there were some nice ideas - which carried into your solo spot: some really nice ideas that just need to be connected a little better, I feel (4:36-4:38/4:52-4:55 being my favorites).

The playing overall is a vast improvement over the last batch of stuff you've posted, so keep doing whatever it is you're doing and really think about the musicality now. Maybe do 10 takes of this song, and try different things out: try to really orchestrate those B sections, or play them very subdued; lay off the cymbals on the hits and see how that gets your mind/playing going; etc etc. Listen back to each one and see what you like about them and see what doesn't work. And that's the word: it takes *work* to be musical - whether a butt-load of listening, or being self-analytical while dealing with your playing within a group setting. I've listened back to old stuff I've done and thought "What the F was I hearing out there!" after thinking at the time that I was really playing some mature stuff (at least R-rated playing and turned out it was more PG...)

You should put up another take in a week or two and see how it goes.

[tomgrosset]

Thanks for the constructive criticism Britt - I appreciate it. And thanks so much for the long and detailed response Colonel, very helpful indeed.

[dairyairman]

that was awesome! it sounds like you really worked on that tune because you seem to know what the piano and sax are going to do before they do it. you compliment them very well. at first i was liking the hits and accents, but after a while they started to sound a bit repetitious and maybe a little too aggressive. could you play some different sounds for accents? i don't know. i'm not a jazz drummer, but i've been working on jazz and this is inspiring. i also love the sound of your drums and cymbals! they fit the music very well! all in all, this is a great recording!

[brittc89]

that was awesome! it sounds like you really worked on that tune because you seem to know what the piano and sax are going to do before they do it.

I hate to say it, but thats a bad thing, its the problem with play-a-longs. THe more you practice with them the less they actually help you musically in terms of comping.

[RussDiaper]

Loved your video dude, it was the sort of drumming i couldnt take my eyes off, love the track too!, sounds great! nice little kit you got there. I like the way you sorta flow into each hit, really fluid and controlled :-)

[Pearlrules]

Fantastic drumming, Tom! You seem to be getting better and better each time I hear you! Are you still self-taught? I remember you said last time you didn't have a teacher.... which is quite impressive!

[tomgrosset]

Thanks dairyairman and RussDiaper. Your comments are very much appreciated.

Fantastic drumming, Tom! You seem to be getting better and better each time I hear you! Are you still self-taught? I remember you said last time you didn't have a teacher.... which is quite impressive!

Thanks Pearlrules, and yes at the moment I am self-taught. Although, I will be attending music school this year starting in the fall so I'll have a private teacher then.