Why should I share my drums?

[Stoney]

It seems like us drummers get the raw deal here when it comes to sharing our equipment. Granted we generally take up the largest stage space but I'm quite happy to tear down or set up my kit whenever! It's only down to engineers or fellow drummers laziness that there should ever be a reason to share equipment. At the end of the day though it should be my decision and a decision I should not have to feel guilty about!
I always take my kit to gigs unless it's been pre-arranged and then I'll just take my breakables. Just common sense in my book. I remember one guy who turned up with just a pair of sticks! After pleading with me to use my kit (and failing) he then turned up 30mins later with his full kit. Why he didn't in the first place I'll never no. Just laziness I guess.
I say all this because I've had some pretty bad experiences of kit sharing in the past. Whether it be lost cymbal washers, hi-hat clutches, broken heads or toms set up too low that they're scraping off the bass drum finish (not what you want when you've got a brand new set)! Not to mention re-tuning! Arrrrrgh......
Obviously this only applies to smaller club gigs and for this I'm even considering buying a set of beat up crappy drums that I don't mind sharing but then again why should I have to compromise my sound to please others and make their lives easier?
What are your views on this? I never see a guitarist sharing his Les Paul. My kit is my pride and joy too.....and I, it seems is the only person capable of looking after it.

[eddiehimself]

I don't think it's just drummers. With regards to the les paul example, yeah i don't think a guitar player would share their guitar but a lot of the time you see bands sharing amps. A lot of bands doing support gigs and that do share their "backline" stuff.

[makinao]

We've got the same problem where I'm from. Many rock gigs (called "productions") have lots of bands playing 3-4 songs only. The production usually provides a crappy kit. Some drummers bring parts that are very personal to them. But others don't bring anything. Some don't even bring their own sticks. They then beg to use the nice stuff of other drummers. Those who don't lend their stuff are often branded as selfish and arrogant.

If I don't bring anything except my stick bag, I resign myself to playing the in-house kit however bad it is. I only play stuff of other drummers if they offered first, and I always promise to replace/repair anything that gets damaged. Nowadays I bring a snare, pedal, cymbals, and extra cymbal stands. I only share them with trusted friends, and they usually bring their own gear anyway. Other than that, I do not share my stuff, and I don't care what other people think.

[Pollyanna]

I didn't much like sharing drums because you have to wait around to set down. Ideally, if someone borrows your drums they should help out with lug in, set up, set down and lug out. Fair's fair. If not, a few $$ should change hands.

It's always a worry if someone who wants to borrow your kit is a basher.

[Big_Philly]

I don't mind sharing my kit with people I know. I bought my kit so it would be played, preferrably by myself but if someone I know needs it for something, I will generally (or generously) agree to let them use it. When I know them personally and they do something stupid I trust that i'll get the repairs / replacements refunded.

Last time I shared my kit it was with a better drummer than myself who once let me use his kit for an audition. He was very grateful and actually learned something about setting up his kit; I sit very high on my throne and he was used to sitting low until he tried my kit :)

But at a jam session with a house kit provided... I prefer to just bring sticks even if that means playing a crappy set. Like pollyanna said: the next drummer may be using the heaviest sticks he can find because other sticks just don't last through the abuse he puts them through.

[mrchattr]

This is one thing I'm very anal about, to the point where it has cost me a few gigs over the years (I average about 150 shows a year, so it's not like it's hurt me THAT much, for the record). I will not share my kit with anyone I don't know. There are a couple reasons for it. First of all, I've had a ton of bad experiences. Broken heads (which, if you don't have spares, means you are screwed), broken sticks (again, you bought 'em, now you lose 'em), set-up issues, etc.

If someone does use my kit, they are not allowed to adjust anything. At all. No re-tuning, no adjusting heights...I sit very high on my throne, and if they don't like it, too bad. I have my memory locks set to my sweet spots, and I keep them there for a reason.

One final note. I recently was at a show where there were three drummers that used the same kit. The bands played two sets each, going on like this:
Band 1, Band 2, Band 3, Band 1, Band 2, Band 3.
The kit was owned by Band 3. When Band 1 started their second set, the drummer was way off, just playing like crap. He knew it, too, and got pissed off, and somehow kicked the bass drum pedal in such a way that he BROKE the strap. So the other drummers, including the guy who owned the pedal, now had no bass drum. The dude also refused to pay for it, and just walked out of the club.

[2bsticks]

I feel your pain. It seems whenever there is a guest musician in the house he plays the drums. Everyone wants to be a drummer. At least now my band will ask me and if I know the guy I will let him play a tune while I get a cold beer. It also gives me a chance to hear my kit out front which is not a bad thing.

A couple of times every years we play a Doo Wop show (oldies music for you youngsters) and we are the opening act. The bands are The Drifters, The Tokens, The Shirelles and some other bands from that era. It varies year to year. Well guess who's kit gets used? Yup, mine. The musicians that back these bands are usually very good and to date very respectful of my drums and appreciate it as well. I am pretty anal about my tuning and know what sound I like and to date not one of the drummers put a drum key near a lug. I will even let the drummer do the sound check because I want the drums to sound the best they can no matter who plays them.

I always keep extra heads in my van and carry an extra pedal too.

[TurboThom]

I've played someone's kit at a gig before. He offered to let me play his Pearl masters MCX...which was awesome, because at the time I was borrowing a beat to hell low-end Tama kit from a friend while I was between kits. I asked if I could adjust the height of his throne and hi-hats, and that was it. It took about 10 minutes to get used to his kit. I'm not a hard hitter, and I still took it easier than usual on his gear...I didn't want to leave a single stick mark if I could help it. I sent many bottles of Guinness his way after my set was finished, and I tore down his set and loaded his kit and his band's amps and cabs for him while he got smashed.

[druid]

I have thankfully not had to share my kit in awhile with anyone but can relate and have had some bad experiences in the past....this was with my old Remo kit.

1. experience #1- Years ago when my kit was new I was playing a "double bill " thing locally the guy in the opening band did not bring a kit....I had new heads which I had spent a great deal of time tuning and getting the set overall to speak the way I wanted it to. The opneing guy seemed nice enough and his initial playing did not thing to shock me into thinking it was a bad idea....THEN...the opener played for real...

Bashing...smashing...hitting lighter cymbals with all his might....just absolute nonsense "drumming" hitting like he was trying to kill something...the phrase "what the f*ck is he doing" ran thru my head for the entire 45 minute show....and he was miked....it was absurd and I vowed to never let someone "borrow" my kit again.My heads looked 4 months old after 45 minutes.

2. experience #2...basically similar scenerio years later ...same old remos...I was having trouble with hardware stripping ou t...and the guy playing my kit adjusted everything to "flat" levels ( I guess to look cool) the bass drum tom mount has never worked the same...and eventually I am going to replace all the arms and mounts with Gibralter stuff since Remo no longer manufactures these mounting systems.

So... I feel your pain and you can bet I'd never let someone "borrow" my DWs after these experiences....I have had a few other times where people were cool ...but mostly I have had people who act like jacka** monkeys on acid when they "borrow" my kit. They can bring and set up their own gear from here on out.

[Pollyanna]

ThurboThorn, that's class :)

It's amazing how many drummers mistreat drum kits. Like Big Philly, in my old band I used the crappy house set provided by the studio. The tunings always amazed me, especially the snare which I like tight. I'd finally get the toms sound half decent and when I came back the overtones were all over the place. Cymbals would be cracked, fittings broken, cymbal felts stolen. Even the stool got stuck on a setting and I had to get the studio guys to sort it out. Mr Gaffa ended up having to come to the rescue. There are lots of ferals out there like the guy described by Mr Chattr.

In my rock days I had no problem letting someone I knew and trust use my kit, but strangers ... that worried me. When I was young it was interesting to let friends who played better than I did use my kit because I probably picked up more than if I'd seen them use another kit; it's a level playing field.

[RogerLudwig]

My band was playing at a private party, at which there was another band, without equipment, but well known to my bandmates. My mates asked if the other drummer could use my kit, 'cause they were going to let the other guys use their guitars. They did say if I wasn't cool with it, they'd back me up (I got good band mates). I figured if it was okay for the guitarists, it might work for me.

I told my mates I had to grill the other drummer before I'd let him play. He said he was a heavy hitter, and I told him to hold back and not to adjust anything or he'd be off the kit. He was polite, friendly, did what I asked, and helped me to breakdown and load up.

However, I use 7As and he trashed a pair or two, so now I carry a couple pairs of old, beat-up sticks just in case someone else ever sits in; that's all they'll get to use.

Did I like it? I must admit I was nervous the entire time. In the future I think I'm going to take mrchattr's approach and be very selective about who, if anyone ever uses my kit.

[rogue_drummer]

Man, these are horror stories!

I thought this only happened in school! My horror experience is this:

When I was still in school, many moons ago, my parents bought me one of those inexpensive Japanese knock-off import kits from the early 70's. Unless you had rich parents or rich relatives that could afford Ludwig, Slingerland, or Gretsch, your parents bought the imports. (A Ludwig kit costs the same as a mid-sized Chevy sedan back in those days.) Japan took advantage of the rock and roll craze in America and marketed millions of "stencil" kits under brand names like "Jazz Master" "Whitehal", "Dixie". etc. A lot of stores carried them. Some were made by the fore-funner companies of Tama and Pearl. Mine was made by Pearl, (lucky me). Others were crappy kits. (A bit of history there....)

In school Jazz band we shared 1 kit. Guess who's kit was the best? Mine. I was proud of that kit and lucky to have it. I prooved myself in band by getting first chair percussion and kept it for a long time. I spent all of my money on new heads, new cymbals, etc. Then I lost first chair to a real jerk. I was bummed and lost some of my confidence. This first chair lead drummer was a real jerk with a large ego and acted like he was a king because he was "1st chair". Bullied a lot. We were required to take turns on the songs and all of us played my kit. All of the others were respectful of my kit, but this one lead drummer completely disrespected me, my kit, others, etc. My new heads were dented, cymbals dented, etc. All because he took to beating the hell outta my kit to stroke his ego.

I found out years later he confessed he thought I was always a better drummer than he and I had a much better kit than he and he confesed he was really jealous! So he took to trashing my kit because of it. Immature prick.

Because of that horrible experience years ago I now try to be careful, but sometimes it still happens. And churches are the worst. When I was in a gospel band I took to leaving my lower-end kit at the church so I wouldn't have to lug it home and back twice a week. I siimple took my cymbals home. It never failed, whenever I'd leave I would put the sticks back in the stick bag, turn off the snares, ect. I'd come in next time, cymbal stands would be rearranged, the floor tom would be moved, the snare would be turned wrong, and a pair of my sticks would be out. Yeah, somebody was playing my drums without permission. Whenever I asked, the answer was always the same: "Um....nobody dude." Sure......

[rootheart]

as a drummer, you should be cool to share anything. If it was not about to share ideas, there would not be a forum like this..if it is about letting the drummer of the next band play on your drums..there will come a day when you play a gig and you have to use the previous drummer´s kit. Give and take is very important..Remember: any drumset is, by nature, "undestroyable". Whatever the other drummer does to you kit, you can fix it in a minute...hang loose!..But maybe you can make a list of your washers and let the other drummer sign it so you can sue him later

[mrchattr]

as a drummer, you should be cool to share anything. If it was not about to share ideas, there would not be a forum like this..if it is about letting the drummer of the next band play on your drums..there will come a day when you play a gig and you have to use the other drummer´s kit. Give and take is very important..Remember: any drumset is, by nature, "undestroyable". Whatever the other drummer does to you kit, you can fix it in a minute...hang loose!

That's just not true as far as sharing gear. Read the examples above...there are plenty of examples that people have of time when gear was ruined, people wouldn't pay for the damage, etc. A lot of us have thousands of dollars invested into our instruments, and don't want people doing damage to our property. Would you let someone you never met, and had never seen drive, jump behind the wheel of your car? Maybe you would, but I certainly wouldn't.

[Deathmetalconga]

I don't mind sharing my kit with people I know. I bought my kit so it would be played, preferrably by myself but if someone I know needs it for something, I will generally (or generously) agree to let them use it. When I know them personally and they do something stupid I trust that i'll get the repairs / replacements refunded.

Last time I shared my kit it was with a better drummer than myself who once let me use his kit for an audition. He was very grateful and actually learned something about setting up his kit; I sit very high on my throne and he was used to sitting low until he tried my kit :)

But at a jam session with a house kit provided... I prefer to just bring sticks even if that means playing a crappy set. Like pollyanna said: the next drummer may be using the heaviest sticks he can find because other sticks just don't last through the abuse he puts them through.

I agree. If I know and trust the person, I would let them drive my car, take my kids to the park, sleep in my house or take my drum set to play. If I don't know the person, then I am very reluctant to let them play.

[rootheart]

That's just not true as far as sharing gear. Read the examples above...there are plenty of examples that people have of time when gear was ruined, people wouldn't pay for the damage, etc. A lot of us have thousands of dollars invested into our instruments, and don't want people doing damage to our property. Would you let someone you never met, and had never seen drive, jump behind the wheel of your car? Maybe you would, but I certainly wouldn't.

I never invested "thousands of dollars" in a drumset... and I cannot imagine anyone, not even a drunk guy after the gig, to destroy a drumset and do any severe damage which I cannot repair in just a second..LOL

[Deathmetalconga]

I've played someone's kit at a gig before. He offered to let me play his Pearl masters MCX...which was awesome, because at the time I was borrowing a beat to hell low-end Tama kit from a friend while I was between kits. I asked if I could adjust the height of his throne and hi-hats, and that was it. It took about 10 minutes to get used to his kit. I'm not a hard hitter, and I still took it easier than usual on his gear...I didn't want to leave a single stick mark if I could help it. I sent many bottles of Guinness his way after my set was finished, and I tore down his set and loaded his kit and his band's amps and cabs for him while he got smashed.

Now THAT is classy! If more people were as thoughtful as you, more people would be willing to share their equipment.

[rootheart]

Would you let someone you never met, and had never seen drive, jump behind the wheel of your car?
Yes, I would.
This is a classic scenario you have been watching in about 1 million hollywood movies, and I guess you liked the films....and always there is a happy end..Do not forget: the car, (or the drumset) doesn´t mean anything..it is just a "McDuffin"

[con struct]

I've never had to share my drums, not once. I have at times let other drummers sit in on my kit but they were all professional enough to know not to change anything. And I have sat in on other drummer's kits, but I've never changed the setup to suit me, and certainly never thought of changing their tuning. That would be very rude. Would you go into someone's house and start re-arranging the furniture?

[rootheart]

music rulez, gear sucks....
do not worry about your beloved "thousands of Dollars" gear..it does not "mean anyhing if it ain´t got that swing"..grin

[con struct]

music rulez, gear sucks....
do not worry about your beloved "thousands of Dollars" gear..it does not "mean anyhing if it ain´t got that swing"..grin

Well, you shouldn't have to worry about it, but you most definitely want to take good care of it, no?

[Ironcobra]

I can understand sharing a cymbal stand or two, but generally you shouldn't share.

[justjim]

It seems like us drummers get the raw deal here when it comes to sharing our equipment.


Oh it ain't just drummers most trad clavier instruments are that way too

I mean it's no coincidence pipe organs often have keys (as in quikset, not black-n-whites)

[drumr0]

I'm on the other side of the fence in my situation. I have been subbing at a church for the last several weeks because their drummer started a new job and he has been working Sundays. The pastor asked me to play.

The church has a decent set of Pearls. Their drummer has a beautiful set of DW's that he leaves set up at the church and he has the Pearl's at his house so he can practice. I absolutely have the greatest respect for his equipment. He is anal about clean cymbals, so I try not to leave any stick marks. I don't particularly like the way his drums are tuned, they are tuned way too high (My 10 is where his 14 is) and as bad as I want to tune them to where they should be, I don't. The gorgeous DW edge snare sounds great when you smack it but has no sensitivity for ghost stroking (which I do alot of). It seems like the whole kit is just muffled too much. DW's need to breathe!!

Even though there are things I don't like about his kit, I still play it only adjusting the space in between the hi hat cymbals.

[Stoney]

music rulez, gear sucks....
do not worry about your beloved "thousands of Dollars" gear..it does not "mean anyhing if it ain´t got that swing"..grin


Have you ever tried getting up to play a set with a broken snare head? It does mean a thing believe me!!!

[larryace]

Instead of getting all freaked out about it, in situations like that, I decided to use my 2nd string rehearsal set, a set of Yamaha Stage Customs. 600 bucks w/ snare. I love playing that set. They are sunburst, look good, and they just sound great. If something happens it's no big deal.

[justjim]

s bad as I want to tune them to where they should be, I don't.


Wise nove - lest someone return that favor someday - "fixing" your and tuning them up to where they should be and "getting that ringing under control"

[Stoney]

I don't think it's just drummers. With regards to the les paul example, yeah i don't think a guitar player would share their guitar but a lot of the time you see bands sharing amps. A lot of bands doing support gigs and that do share their "backline" stuff.

It should always be arranged in advance though. Same as drum sharing.
Also I've witnessed amp speakers blowing up during support slots leaving the headliners (and amp owner) screwed! All it takes is one bombshell like this to make a guitarist more vigilant in the future.

[Stoney]

Instead of getting all freaked out about it, in situations like that, I decided to use my 2nd string rehearsal set, a set of Yamaha Stage Customs. 600 bucks w/ snare. I love playing that set. They are sunburst, look good, and they just sound great. If something happens it's no big deal.

Good move really and I was thinking of doing the same but unfortunately I don't have room for 2 kits (or at least the other half doesn't think I have).
I sold my DW's recently, not only cause I fancied a change, but was thinking to downscale to something that I'm not too stressed about. I was looking around for some beat up piece of old crap but then thought "sod it" and ended up buying a beautiful vintage ludwig instead. hehe. Well sod it, why shouldn't I be inspired eh?

And before you ask.......... NO!!!! aha

[con struct]

tuning them up to where they should be and "getting that ringing under control"

Oh yeah! I was once asked to be the "house drummer" for a get together of local players, good musicians and really all-around nice guys, most of them, and the club owner asked me to tune up his drums, get them in shape for the music that night. It was a pretty old Yamaha kit but with some nice cymbals. I did what I could and I thought they sounded fine.
I played my part of the show and then the next drummer came up. He played one tune, called me over and said, "Hey, if you don't mind I'm going to muffle this snare a bit, it's a little too ringy." Well, they weren't my drums so I said sure, whatever. This guy takes a roll of duct tape and puts two big pieces in an X on the snare batter head. That sure did it!

[Vipercussionist]

I don't mind another guy using my kit, but I make it known there are 5 rules. If you want the ease/privilege of using MY hard earned kit you WILL:

1) Play it as it lies, don't move ANYTHING as I don't want you to and it's MY kit.
2) You can use your snare drum IF you have your own stand, as you CAN'T adjust mine, I won't let you.
3) You can use your own cymbals if you wish and because it's an easy adjustment, you CAN lower the stands if needed. They're mine, I say it's OK.
4) If you're a "basher" you WON'T be using my kit NO MATTER WHAT. I hit reasonably hard, so you gotta be a CAVE MAN to be banned from using my kit.
5) If it is deemed you are banished from using my kit, or you prefer NOT to, I will GLADLY move my drums out of the way so you can occupy the choice area, I won't hog the stage as your music is JUST as important to you as MINE is to me.

Follow those and we'll get along just fine.

[brittc89]

I generally dont have a problem letting someone else play on my drums, especially if I know them or someone vouches for them. I once sat in at a friend of mines gig and his high tom head broke, that sucked and I felt horrible, but it was no big deal, hes such a cool guy and there were no hard feelings. Im not really a gear head, so I dont care too much about it. If someone hits hard, whatever, if theyre good, I could care less if they beat up some stuff. Id rather hear good music then not let someone play because Im worried about my heads or sticks.

[Spreggy]

What bugs me is if someone wants to sit in for a few, which I welcome as a chance to hear the kit from the front and a chance to grab a beverage, and they change adjustments. If you borrow, play it where it stands. Moving stands around for reach is fine, but changing any adjustments is pretty rude in my book.

[mrchattr]

I never invested "thousands of dollars" in a drumset... and I cannot imagine anyone, not even a drunk guy after the gig, to destroy a drumset and do any severe damage which I cannot repair in just a second..LOL

I have told this story on here before...I watched a drummer get so mad that he knocked the rack tom off a kit...destroying the finish on the bass drum and taking a chunk of the wood out of the tom itself, as well as denting the rim. The same guy had already broken a different head, and messed up the bass pedal (though I believe it was a simple fix...he knocked the beater loose).

If you never invested thousands of dollars, then I don't think it's fair for you to tell those of us who have that we shouldn't worry so much about our gear. My kit right now is a DW, with great cymbals and really good stands, pedals, thrones, and percussion. If you priced out my kit (all prices Musicians Friend except the DWs, which I know the price of), it would cost you $6405 ($3500 kit, $1228 cymbals, $1108 in stands, pedals, throne, and $569 in electronics and percussion). I'm not bragging, but stating a fact. I realize that there is no way that it would all be destroyed, but it is something that I am proud of, that I work very hard on making look and sound great, and that I make a living with. I don't see what's wrong with wanting to protect it.

If you would let someone you don't know drive your car, I think that's crazy. Good for you (and I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically), I know some people who are like that, but to imply that everyone should be like that seems crazy to me.

[brittc89]

All this adjusting stuff anger, I dont care at all. THats the least of my worries, go ahead, move it around, takes 5 seconds to get back to where it was. I guess I just dont have an attachment to my stuff the same way some people do.

[Stoney]

Interesting replies...
I think every serious musician should be careful! Even if you're endorsed or have a rich Mummy and Daddy you still shouldn't have to play something that isn't sounding or feeling half as good as it was during the soundcheck (if it's yours anyway).
Don't get me wrong I'm not a complete ogre. I have always lent stuff in the past but it's only through too many bad experiences that I've stopped. Even when someone promises to only adjust a few stands it's never really the case is it? People will be as nice as pie when they're asking to use something but not so nice during or after. Not always but often!
Now, if someone is desperate for a stand I'll give it to them but certainly no drums, cymbals or pedals. I'm talking strangers here.
I, like other people here have invested a lot of money on equipment and I try my best to look after it. This is because it's my living! In the same way as a plumber friend of mine is incredibly protective over his tools. It's his living and his tools are expensive to replace.
Besides all this, I just sold my set of DW's and I'm pretty sure I would've got a lot more money for it had it not been for the marks on it that I didn't cause!
It's just about respect at the end of the day.

www.myspace.com/pjstoneydrums

[mrchattr]

All this adjusting stuff anger, I dont care at all. THats the least of my worries, go ahead, move it around, takes 5 seconds to get back to where it was. I guess I just dont have an attachment to my stuff the same way some people do.

I think with that, it also depends on your set-up. When you start to get into memory locks, etc, it can take a lot longer, especially if people loosen your memory locks.

I think it's interesting that almost every person in this thread who is opposed to sharing gear has horror stories of doing it that are the reason we have stopped. I think it just goes to show how many drummers out there will show no respect to your gear, and how much of a risk it really is to share the stuff.

[SickRick]

Wow... reading this thread, I cannot believe that attitude that most people participating in it have.

I absolutely don't mind sharing my gear (except sticks because its easy to bring your own sticks even if you dont have a car) with other drummers. I am also very happy if I can use other drummers gear and dont have to bring my own.

I also dont mind if people set up the kit for their need, just like I do with other kits that I play on. It only takes a few minutes to get everything back where I want it. I find that not allowing to tune drums is actually totally stupid for a simple reason: Before I start playing, I will tune my drums. If drums change the room (from practise room to venue for example) they will detune - you'll have to tune them anyway. Same thing happens if you leave your drums on a stage for a couple of hours because the temerature will greatly change due to the stage lights. So why not let the guy who uses your drums before or after yourself tune the drums? As far as heads go: I change mine every 3 months which means they are always in good condition. If another drummer bashes the shit out of them, I'll have him pay for a new set. But that only happened once since I started playing.

I do one thing though: Before someone uses my gear I make sure that I know the guys name and adress. I explain him everything about my gear and let him/her sign that he/she will pay if he/she damages something. I have a *very* beatiful and expensive drumset and I want to keep it that way.

I had one horror story happening to me around 10 years ago, where a guy using my set got pissed during the show and kicked my racktom with his feet. That racktom was mounted to a drumrack (back in the day I loved racks) and all the rack fell down the drumriser, including all cymbals and three toms. After checking everything I found out that there was some severe damage in the lacquer and some broken clamps. After a lawsuit the guy had to replace two toms, the broken clamps and one bar of the rack. But because I was smart enough to have him sign my little paper ahead of time I didn't have any problems getting my money back.

Note: that happened once in 15 years of gigging and it happened at a time in which I was playing metal and so were all the other bands that used my set. So many times I find myself in a situation in which I just simply cannot bring my own drums and I'm sure every other gigging drummer does as well (except those who have one drumset set up for transportation all the time which I don't). So I am just as happy to help out these other drummers as I am happy if they help me out. And if someone wants to bring his own cymbals, snares, pedals I will happily allow them to change them just like I will if I dont use my own set of drums.

[Stoney]

[QUOTE=SickRick;585662]Wow... reading this thread, I cannot believe that attitude that most people participating in it have.

I absolutely don't mind sharing my gear...

You then go on to writing about lawsuits, drummers signing pieces of paper, drummers kicking your drums off the drum riser, etc. Is that all necessary? Maybe the easier option would be to not share your gear in the first place. No?
Also when I meant re-tuning I didn't mean people doing me a favor from it, I meant people re-tuning up to pitches I don't wish to hear (I like the way I tune my drums) Low.

[SickRick]

You then go on to writing about lawsuits, drummers signing pieces of paper, drummers kicking your drums off the drum riser, etc. Is that all necessary? Maybe the easier option would be to not share your gear in the first place. No?
Also when I meant re-tuning I didn't mean people doing me a favor from it, I meant people re-tuning up to pitches I don't wish to hear (I like the way I tune my drums) Low.

Well: Of course I want to give people the chance to use my gear if they have to. But on the other hand I make sure that I won't end up paying for something if they damage it. That's not being a pain in the ass to the guy, its just just to make sure people handle stuff with care. And like I said: These things almost never happened to me. But if they do: I am on the save side. And as for signing papers: Of course I only do that if I have the impression that the guy looks like a potential basher/drumraper with a run away attitude (maybe 1 out of 20 times people use my stuff). Otherwise I just make sure I know the guys name and where hes from.

And no: It won't be the better way not to share gear. I only told the story so that people see that I've had my horror story too and still give away my stuff if people need it. Its not like other drummers (and myself) dont bring own stuff because they are too lazy - a lot of times it just ain't possible.

As far as tuning goes I wasn't talking about favours too. I was trying to get across: You have to tune the drums anyway, doesn't matter if you tune up or down. Why do you care about sounds your drums make when other people play them? Just retune them after playing. Takes 5 minutes, no deal. Heads do not get damaged if tuned high. And if you turn the screws to the left your drums will sound like you like them again: Low.

[Stoney]

Takes 5 minutes, no deal. Heads do not get damaged if tuned high. And if you turn the screws to the left your drums will sound like you like them again: Low.[/QUOTE]

It's pretty impossible to tune a drum correctly with loud music/people going on in the background. Besides that, it's not something I should have to worry about just before I go on. Also what's the point investing in good drum heads if you can't tune them properly? What's the point investing in good anything more to the point.

And as far as going around the room asking drummers to sign a piece of paper... have you ever had to do this when you've borrowed? If so what was your reaction? Aha

[SickRick]

Edit: About lawsuits...

Of course there is a lawsuit if a guy destroys your drums while using them. And if its clear that it happened because of misusage. The point here is to still go on being fair with other fellow drummers after such a thing happens.

And one more thing as a sidenote: I absolutely love my drums and the way they sound. Whenever possible I will bring them to any gig. But sometimes its just not possible - lack of space in the car (if you have to bring guitar and bass amps for your band too for example), not enough time to change drums in between bands.... Reasons can vary greatly. What's important is to make sure you check ahead of time with the other bands / drummers. That way you'll also find out ahead of time what kind of gear they'll bring along or if they seem like potential gear destroyers. If they do you can still decide not to give them your gear - I do the same thing of course.
But making it a general policy not to share gear seems a little stubborn to me. Thats what I was was referring to.

Anyway, didn't mean to start an argument here. Just my point of view...

[Stoney]

[QUOTE=SickRick;585676]Edit:
Whenever possible I will bring them to any gig. But sometimes its just not possible - lack of space in the car (if you have to bring guitar and bass amps for your band too for example), not enough time to change drums in between bands.... Reasons can vary greatly.

Come on, just be honest. It's because half the time you don't want to share your drums or just want the easy life? Right? hehe

ps its not an argument... it's a discussion

[SickRick]

It's pretty impossible to tune a drum correctly with loud music/people going on in the background. Besides that, it's not something I should have to worry about just before I go on. Also what's the point investing in good drum heads if you can't tune them properly? What's the point investing in good anything more to the point.

And as far as going around the room asking drummers to sign a piece of paper... have you ever had to do this when you've borrowed? If so what was your reaction? Aha

OK - now this is funny.

Tuning is something you have to worry about before you go on no matter if someone tuned your drums before you or not. You take your drums out of the practise room into the car, out of the car on the stage... You have to tune them. Period. If you can't do it with loud music going on (usually during stage changes its not that loud) get a tension watch.

I don't get the point about investing in good heads and not being able to tune them properly... I use clear ambassadors as batter heads - these are cheap but good. I also teach seminars about drum tuning so I know how to tune drums. I don't know what you are referring to here.

Yes, I had to sign papers in the past. Of course. I once played a gig where a guy had a 8 piece DW collectors with a graphic finish - worth around 8K only for the friggin shells. I was happy to use the gear and of course I understood why he had me sign a paper, just like everybody understands why I let people sign something for me (what I rarely ever do like I said).
I don't have to sign these things very often though, because I dont look and act like a guy who destroys things so other drummers ususally trust me.

Look - I play drums professionally and have between 50 to 100 gigs a year. I just don't have the time to bring my own stuff to every gig I play. Other drummers also dont. Why not help these people out if they need it?

[SickRick]

Come on, just be honest. It's because half the time you don't want to share your drums or just want the easy life? Right? hehe

ps its not an argument... it's a discussion


Of course I want the easy life man. Everybody does.

Seriously though: If I can bring my own gear to a show, I will. Just simply because I prefer playing on my own instrument. If that means that other people will play with my gear thats no problem for me like I said. But I clear these things up ahead of time. If I find out the drummer before or after me plays in a band called "Smashed up Testicals" and spills blood and vomit on the gear during the show I can decide ahead of time that he won't be a guy using my stuff. If I find that out at the show, I will have him sign the mentioned piece of paper. Maybe the guy will then not like me any more, but I don't care because a) I am at the save side and b) because I know he will handle my gear with care.

Like I said: Almost never happens, especially since I left the metal/hardcore/punk music.

As for setting up and tuning one more thing: If I don't have my own gear with me, at least I want to try to get as close to what I am used to. If the other drummer tells me I am not allowed to tune / arrange the drums I cannot really understand why - because it just ain't such a big deal rearranging an retuning them.

99% of the time other drummers are surprised though, how good their drums sound after I tuned them... But that's another story :)


OK, I'll leave it at that for tonight because I have to play a gig now ;) And I'm happy I don't have to bring my gear to that show, otherwise I would have had to leave 5 hours ago for line-check. You see: There are two sided to the story.

[Stoney]

[QUOTE=SickRick;585679]OK - now this is funny.

Tuning is something you have to worry about before you go on no matter if someone tuned your drums before you or not.

Little tweaks yes but not changing a complete head sometimes!! Change overs are tight!

I play drums professionally too! My whole point of this discussion was if you feel uncomfortable sharing (for whatever reason) it should be ok to say no without feeling guilty about it. I do know though that I'd rather say no any day than run around the room getting drummers to sign some sort of contract! That's just plain silly!

Perhaps not yourself but some drummers have no respect for other peoples gear.

[SickRick]

Little tweaks yes but not changing a complete head sometimes!! Change overs are tight!

I play drums professionally too! My whole point of this discussion was if you feel uncomfortable sharing (for whatever reason) it should be ok to say no without feeling guilty about it. I do know though that I'd rather say no any day than run around the room getting drummers to sign some sort of contract! That's just plain silly!

Perhaps not yourself but some drummers have no respect for other peoples gear.

What I find about change overs is that most of the time the other guys in the band need way longer than myself. Especially guitar players for some reason... As far as tuning goes: I never had a guy who tuned my resonant heads (which I find way more important as far as sound and projection goes) - I don't know why though. Seems like many drummers under-estimate resonant heads. Anyway, 99,9% of the time I only have to worry about my batter heads and just readjust my resos - that never takes more time than maximum 5 minutes. I know how I want my heads to sound like and I know how to get to that sound quickly.

As far as signing papers goes: Like i said - rarely happens, but if it does, I see it that way that for the other guy its cooler having to sign for not destroying my stuff rather than having to drive home again and bring his own drumset. And I don't have to run around for anything - I set my drums up when I get to the venue and remove them when I leave. If someone else wants to play them before or after me, they will always come to me and ask me about it.

What I was trying to get across all the time is that I don't get this kind of zero tolerance policy with gear. I get that if you play a leftie setup or a very unique setup you don't want someone to rearrange everything - and that's cool for the other guys as well because probably it won't matter if they have to rearrange something or set up their own stuff. But if you're playing a regular 4 or 5 piece set, why not share it with other drummers if they look like they behave?

I've had so many encounters with drummers who say stuff like: "You can play my set, but if you touch it I will kill you. It was extremely expensive and it sounds exactly like I want it!!!". Then I go to the set and it's a beautiful Sonor SQ2 set, but all the heads are dampened with towels or tons of tape..... These are the moments when I think: " You f**** re****ed idiot, maybe you should actually let someone touch your gear from time to time because you don't know how to handle it."


Maybe I'm being arrogant, but that's exactly what happened to me at the gig I just came home from. Luckily, I had my 500$ Basix setup (including hardware lol) in my trunk that I use in my music school for the kids, so the only reason I touched the SQ2s was to remove them from stage. Reaction of the drummer after the show: "These drums sound great, they must have been expensive!" My response: "That thing in your set that you call a bassdrum, but muffle it with a full size blanket and 5 pillows probably costs 3 or 4 times as much as my whole set. If that is exactly the way you want your drums to sound like, you could have saved 4K and go with some buckets."

Anyway - cool that we're cool now. Like I said I wasn't seeking an argument, I was just surprised that so many guys seem to have the zero tolerance thing going on that I cannot really understand. If you always have a drumset ready in the trunk - cool, go for it. But if you - like I do and assume most playing drummers do - have to rely on other peoples drumset from time to time I don't feel its fair to not let other players use your own stuff as well. What I learned from tonight: Always keep a basix in the trunk :) That way you don't have to rely on muffled to death SQ2s and if other drummers destroy your set, it's not that bad.

[Stoney]

Yes in an ideal world it would be great if everyone could share and respect others equipment, tune them to make them sound better, even help pack them up and carry them to the car afterwards. But it's not an ideal world.
I've basically decided not to share anymore and if people take a dislike to me because of it, it's tough!
I'll quite happily pull a gig rather than share my gear with 4 other bands. Happened before in fact and my band mates backed me up on it. Just not worth the hassle. Especially if your gears expensive. It's a sure fire way of ruining it!
I've seen loads of drummers with expensive drums that don't know what to do with them. I saw a guy recently with a Starclassic that had bubble wrap stuffed inside all the shells! As odd as it was, I didn't think it was any of my business. Up to him if he wants to waste money. Same way as I see Ferrari drivers cautiously driving 40mph down the motorway. I may think they're a bit of a tosser but I'm not going to attempt to stop their car and drive it for them at 200mph, skidding around and showing them what it's capable of! I realise like the Starclassic and your Sonor guy, they've probably got it purely for aesthetic reasons.... and that's a different discussion entirely.
Anyway... happy drumming hehe

[Vipercussionist]

OK - now this is funny.

Tuning is something you have to worry about before you go on no matter if someone tuned your drums before you or not. You take your drums out of the practise room into the car, out of the car on the stage... You have to tune them. Period. If you can't do it with loud music going on (usually during stage changes its not that loud) get a tension watch.
Rick, it's just not gonna happen that between sets on a multiple band show, after some idiot has beat the begeezus out of your kit you'll have any time to tune your kit, no matter if you have a tension watch, they simply want the music to continue, NOW!! These types of shows usually rush you around and want you to start IMMEDIATELY, not after taking time to tune your kit.
So really, it's not funny at all

I don't get the point about investing in good heads and not being able to tune them properly... I use clear ambassadors as batter heads - these are cheap but good. I also teach seminars about drum tuning so I know how to tune drums. I don't know what you are referring to here.
Rick, I'm sure he has knowledge of how to tune his drums, so don't be so condescending.
He might use a different method from yours, but if it serves him, so be it. There are many ways to do many things, that doesn't mean they are wrong or right, just that they are different.
So really, it's not funny at all

Yes, I had to sign papers in the past. Of course. I once played a gig where a guy had a 8 piece DW collectors with a graphic finish - worth around 8K only for the friggin shells. I was happy to use the gear and of course I understood why he had me sign a paper, just like everybody understands why I let people sign something for me (what I rarely ever do like I said).
I don't have to sign these things very often though, because I dont look and act like a guy who destroys things so other drummers ususally trust me.
Rick, I'm sure that there are LOTS of great drums that you or I would like to play, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be FORCED to play someones drums when I don't WANT to and be responsible for them. I'm not a basher, but sometimes shiot just happens, and I'm not going to be the guy paying for it when I have my OWN kit just ACHIN' to be played. No matter HOW great the drums are, I'm FARE more expressive and comfortable on MY OWN kit. There's just NO substitute for that feeling.
So really, it's not funny at all

Look - I play drums professionally and have between 50 to 100 gigs a year. I just don't have the time to bring my own stuff to every gig I play. Other drummers also dont. Why not help these people out if they need it?Yeah, lots of drummers play that much and more. I make SURE I have my instrument with me if I'm scheduled to play. I really don't want to use another drummers "sound" especially seeing as mine is better. Yeah, BETTER is subjective I know, but isn't that the point. Everyone has a different way to do it, I wouldn't FORCE them, so I won't be forced either.
Check my 5 rules in a post I made back somewhere in this thread. If the other player wishes to abide by them, that can use my kit, if NOT I'll be happy to get mine out of the way.
So really, it's not funny at all

The ONLY gig I won't fuss over is a Benefit. I'll use WHATEVER they've got. You're not there for yourself at a Benefit, so you'd BETTER bend over backward to be accommodating.

[SickRick]

Rick, it's just not gonna happen that between sets on a multiple band show, after some idiot has beat the begeezus out of your kit you'll have any time to tune your kit, no matter if you have a tension watch, they simply want the music to continue, NOW!! These types of shows usually rush you around and want you to start IMMEDIATELY, not after taking time to tune your kit.
So really, it's not funny at all


Of course they do - it happens to me all the time. But as I said: Almost everytime I do find the time to get some quick tuning done. Look at it that way: If the drummer before you brings his own set and you bring your own set it will take much longer to remove one set and then set up the new set. So sharing is much quicker and leaves time for tuning. These quick changeovers are the exact reason why I believe that sharing gear is the better way to go.


Rick, I'm sure he has knowledge of how to tune his drums, so don't be so condescending.
He might use a different method from yours, but if it serves him, so be it. There are many ways to do many things, that doesn't mean they are wrong or right, just that they are different.
So really, it's not funny at all

He made that point, I was just responding to it. Really don't know what your talking about here. Read the thread again.


Rick, I'm sure that there are LOTS of great drums that you or I would like to play, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be FORCED to play someones drums when I don't WANT to and be responsible for them. I'm not a basher, but sometimes shiot just happens, and I'm not going to be the guy paying for it when I have my OWN kit just ACHIN' to be played. No matter HOW great the drums are, I'm FARE more expressive and comfortable on MY OWN kit. There's just NO substitute for that feeling.
So really, it's not funny at all


If you play someone elses drums, your responsible for them. Period. If you don't like it, bring your own drums to every show if you can. If someone destroys your kit when he's playing it - will you pay for that? Certainly not.



Yeah, lots of drummers play that much and more. I make SURE I have my instrument with me if I'm scheduled to play. I really don't want to use another drummers "sound" especially seeing as mine is better. Yeah, BETTER is subjective I know, but isn't that the point. Everyone has a different way to do it, I wouldn't FORCE them, so I won't be forced either.
Check my 5 rules in a post I made back somewhere in this thread. If the other player wishes to abide by them, that can use my kit, if NOT I'll be happy to get mine out of the way.
So really, it's not funny at all


If you can bring your set to every show you play thats great for you. Do it. Many guys cannot. For example if I have to use my instrument to teach until 8pm and have a show after that but soundcheck starts at 5pm: How in the hell am I supposed to bring my drums to that? In this case: Another drummer brings his drums, I use them, make sure I don't damage anything and in case I do (which never happened) I'll pay for it. Just like you I prefer playing on my own drums, but in some cases its just simply not possible.



The ONLY gig I won't fuss over is a Benefit. I'll use WHATEVER they've got. You're not there for yourself at a Benefit, so you'd BETTER bend over backward to be accommodating.

Cool, good for you. I'd still prefer to have my own kit there, but if not possible I'll too use whats there, just like at any other gig.

Honestly, most of your points I don' get. What's your point? That sharing drums is not funny? Of course its not funny. Its necessary for the exact reasons that you've mentioned (like quick change overs).

Just to sum it up one more time (it gets boring already): I think that sharing drums is no problem if you take care of your fellow drummers gear. If you think that the other person is not responsible enough to take care of your gear: Don't share with them. If you have to share because it just simply ain't possible without sharing, make sure that if damage occurs, you're not the one who has to pay for it. And try to make life as easy as possible to the other guy, meaning: Allow him to tune and arrange the drums for his needs. Like I said, its no big deal to rearrange and retune during change over. This still is much quicker than setting up new drums. And if the schedule is sooooo incredibly tight that there is absolutely no time for changing anything, then for christs sake talk to the other guy and tell him not to change too much.
Remember: The next show it could be you who has to rely on the other drummers drums. Everytime my set is used for a show with two or more bands and I know that the schedule is not superduper uber-tight, I tell the other guys: You can do whatever you want with my set, tune it, arrange it.... But if you damage it - you or your insurace will have to pay for it. Isn't that common sense?

Last point: My name ist not Rick. My Avatar name SickRick is a short form for StickTrick. Now this is funny, isn't it?

[spirit]

It seems like us drummers get the raw deal here when it comes to sharing our equipment. Granted we generally take up the largest stage space but I'm quite happy to tear down or set up my kit whenever! It's only down to engineers or fellow drummers laziness that there should ever be a reason to share equipment. At the end of the day though it should be my decision and a decision I should not have to feel guilty about!
I always take my kit to gigs unless it's been pre-arranged and then I'll just take my breakables. Just common sense in my book. I remember one guy who turned up with just a pair of sticks! After pleading with me to use my kit (and failing) he then turned up 30mins later with his full kit. Why he didn't in the first place I'll never no. Just laziness I guess.
I say all this because I've had some pretty bad experiences of kit sharing in the past. Whether it be lost cymbal washers, hi-hat clutches, broken heads or toms set up too low that they're scraping off the bass drum finish (not what you want when you've got a brand new set)! Not to mention re-tuning! Arrrrrgh......
Obviously this only applies to smaller club gigs and for this I'm even considering buying a set of beat up crappy drums that I don't mind sharing but then again why should I have to compromise my sound to please others and make their lives easier?
What are your views on this? I never see a guitarist sharing his Les Paul. My kit is my pride and joy too.....and I, it seems is the only person capable of looking after it.


OOOoo! I agree nothing makes me more mad than this!
I get my own back when I have to do this....I take my Roland td8 and just before another drummer comes to use my kit, I select a crap drumkit- that I have tweaked already to make it worse,,,on top of the god terrible sounds, I have switched the cymbals over left to right and dumped loads of overlays on like tambourine on a tom etc.....Why should this fool using my expensive gear sound decent....if I have a say- it wont happen!

LOL!

[rmandelbaum]

I play a few opening act type gigs here in Austin for some major Texas Country acts. I am normally the guy that would be the one using the other guys drum kit. It really comes down to the stage. If the headliner has left no room for another drum kit then it makes it really rough. I would much rather set up and play my own gear but have had to use the headliners kit as well. From the other side I was in a band where we hosted a jam night. I never knew who was going to be playing my kit and it was very stressful. For me in that situation the solution was get a kit at the pawn shop and use it for that gig. Then everybody could just get up and play and I didn't mind it at all.

I feel it is fair enough to ask if they can use my kit but at the same time if I say no that should be the end of it. Ask the person asking to put up the cost of replacing cymbals and heads first and see what they say http://robertmdrums.com/emocons/wink.gif

[SickRick]

One more thing that just came to my mind seeing that you're from the US: A good friend of mine toured the east coast last year with his band and told me, that schedules in America are much tighter than they are here in Europe. The way they did was to set up the drums besides the stage and when the other band was done with their show they would alltogether change the drums as quickly as possible. Drums were tuned with a tension watch while the other band was playing.
Often times they played two or three shows in one night in different clubs at different times...


If you do it that way (that never happened to me here in Germany, even if schedules are tight, you ususally do get at least some time to arrange your stuff), of course the idea of sharing drums might not work as good or even not work at all. If you have to drive your drums to the next show directly after playing, of course you cannot share them.

Just trying to get across that I don't get the whole "I don't share my drums as a general policy out of ego" thing. Guitar players don't share their guitars simply for that reason that its much easier to get a guitar to a gig and changing requires no time at all. Amps though are shared all the time (at least where I live).

But hey.... if you don't want to share your drums, just don't do it. But tell the other guys ahead of time so that they can adjust to that. And don't ever rely on other peoples drums when you need them. :)

[Stoney]

don't rely on other peoples drums when you need them. :)[/QUOTE]

But that's the point. I never do rely on anybody else because I always take my own gear! Also I never turn up to a gig without knowing the arrangements before hand. I always make a point of letting the promoter know that I will not be sharing my kit and if he's doing his job properly he'll pass that message around so people can make the appropriate arrangements. They may have weeks to sort this out, so if anyone does turn up with no gear it's their own stupid fault. Unless the promotor didn't pass the message on, in which I'll pass the blame onto him. Either way it's not my problem.

[RogerLudwig]

I played a gig at the River Lounge in Glen Avon last night. It went real well and we were asked to come back. During one of the breaks a rather large, imposing patron asked in he could sit at my kit. I asked his name, introduced myself, shook his hand, and said, "NO, but thanks for asking and it was really nice to meet you." end of story.

[SickRick]

But that's the point. I never do rely on anybody else because I always take my own gear! Also I never turn up to a gig without knowing the arrangements before hand. I always make a point of letting the promoter know that I will not be sharing my kit and if he's doing his job properly he'll pass that message around so people can make the appropriate arrangements. They may have weeks to sort this out, so if anyone does turn up with no gear it's their own stupid fault. Unless the promotor didn't pass the message on, in which I'll pass the blame onto him. Either way it's not my problem.


If you really never have to rely on other peoples drums that's totally cool then. I'd never say something else. But if you - like me - have to rely on other peoples sets, not sharing the own kit is uncool.

Just like you, I always come prepared to death to every gig - that's what gives me other gigs in the future. But bringing my own set is just not always possible for some of the mentioned reasons.

[caddywumpus]

I'm not opposed to drum sharing. I've done it many times myself, being the provider of the drums and being the user of somebody else's drums. I have my gigging kit that I use that I wouldn't mind if it got scratched up a little. Heck, I might even be the one to accidentally damage it, let alone the engineers, other band members, or other bands' members. Also, I don't mind playing a kit configured differently than my own preferences. I don't really mind a tom being angled too much or placed too far in one direction or another--it's easy to adapt. I often switch up my set up just to keep things fresh.

I just don't take my nice DWs out that much, because of the potential for damaging its "perfectness". If I have any doubt about the safeness of its condition at a gig, I simply won't bring it. That's my babied kit, and I baby it accordingly.

I wonder what some of the people posting here who take their "baby" kits to gigs would do if they were playing a gig and a mic stand or light fixture just gave out and fell and damaged their kits. Would they try to find someone to blame for it? Do they make the sound engineers or anyone else who does their business in the vicinity of their kit sign papers as well? What about the business owners? Accidents happen, and it's something you have to be prepared to deal with when the time comes. When will these guys realize that something will eventually happen to their kits if they keep playing them out, and at what point do they accept that it's partially going to be their fault because they chose to take their expensive kits out to gigs?

In the situations I play in nowadays, there's nothing but professional respect and regard for each other and our instruments (the tools of our trade). If you find yourself in less than these ideal situations, then be smart about it.

[Stoney]

"I wonder what some of the people posting here who take their "baby" kits to gigs would do if they were playing a gig and a mic stand or light fixture just gave out and fell and damaged their kits. Would they....."


An engineer can't really do much other than tear a hole in your bass drum skin. That's why I have a reinforcement ring. You're right though, things can happen but it's about minimizing the chances and I'd say a fellow drummer is by far the most likely culprit of any damage. As far as lights falling over etc, it's all a bit what if? What if the car crashed on the way to the gig? What if your house burnt down whilst you were out gigging with your gigging kit (and your DW's were at home). What if?

But you have another kit you're not too worried about which is cool. I don't have the space for 2 kits, if I did I wouldn't be having this discussion. I do think though there's not much point having a nice expensive kit if its never going to see the light of day! Mine does see the light of day... it's just no one else can use it.

[SickRick]

I wonder what some of the people posting here who take their "baby" kits to gigs would do if they were playing a gig and a mic stand or light fixture just gave out and fell and damaged their kits. Would they try to find someone to blame for it? Do they make the sound engineers or anyone else who does their business in the vicinity of their kit sign papers as well? What about the business owners? Accidents happen, and it's something you have to be prepared to deal with when the time comes. When will these guys realize that something will eventually happen to their kits if they keep playing them out, and at what point do they accept that it's partially going to be their fault because they chose to take their expensive kits out to gigs?

If you were referring to me because I brought in the piece of paper (boy it gets boring by now), only that much more about it: It's to make sure that nobody damages my set on purpous (which did happen to my old set if you read the entire thread). If someone kicks your set off a drumriser as part of his show would you be cool about that because it was your fault to bring the set to the gig? Most certainly not.

For all other damage that might occur (like falling lights or exploding nuclear weapons that are in the basement of the club but the army forgot about them years ago and they got all rusty and stuff) there are insurances. Ever heard of these?

Great thing to have. If I play an open air gig with my set and a thunderstorm takes off the roof of the stage and my kit gets destroyed by rain (or any other just as poorly constructed situation) I have an insurance to pay for it. But again: If someone damages my gear on purpous or by misusing it, I'll have him pay the repairs. Wouldn't everbody else do the same thing? And only to make sure that the guy cannot run and hide, I get his name ahead of time. I want to know who uses my gear, and as far as I can tell at least in this thread it seems like I am one of the guys who is most liberal about other people using gear. And I am also one of the guys who actually did have big time damage on their gear because they shared it.

If you drive your buddys car against a tree, you'll certainly cover up the damage. Why make an exception for drums?

[mrchattr]

I'm not opposed to drum sharing. I've done it many times myself, being the provider of the drums and being the user of somebody else's drums. I have my gigging kit that I use that I wouldn't mind if it got scratched up a little. Heck, I might even be the one to accidentally damage it, let alone the engineers, other band members, or other bands' members. Also, I don't mind playing a kit configured differently than my own preferences. I don't really mind a tom being angled too much or placed too far in one direction or another--it's easy to adapt. I often switch up my set up just to keep things fresh.

I just don't take my nice DWs out that much, because of the potential for damaging its "perfectness". If I have any doubt about the safeness of its condition at a gig, I simply won't bring it. That's my babied kit, and I baby it accordingly.

I wonder what some of the people posting here who take their "baby" kits to gigs would do if they were playing a gig and a mic stand or light fixture just gave out and fell and damaged their kits. Would they try to find someone to blame for it? Do they make the sound engineers or anyone else who does their business in the vicinity of their kit sign papers as well? What about the business owners? Accidents happen, and it's something you have to be prepared to deal with when the time comes. When will these guys realize that something will eventually happen to their kits if they keep playing them out, and at what point do they accept that it's partially going to be their fault because they chose to take their expensive kits out to gigs?

In the situations I play in nowadays, there's nothing but professional respect and regard for each other and our instruments (the tools of our trade). If you find yourself in less than these ideal situations, then be smart about it.

It's all about playing the odds, my man. It seems like almost everyone in this thread has a story about a drummer damaging their kit. I don't think you are going to find many horror stories of the type you mention. Heck, why not just say, "What happens if there is a fire in the nightclub?" It does happen...but it's so rare, it's not a huge concern. Same with sound stuff falling, etc.

[RogerLudwig]

"I wonder what some of the people posting here who take their "baby" kits to gigs would do if they were playing a gig and a mic stand or light fixture just gave out and fell and damaged their kits. Would they....."


But you have another kit you're not too worried about which is cool. I don't have the space for 2 kits, if I did I wouldn't be having this discussion. I do think though there's not much point having a nice expensive kit if its never going to see the light of day! Mine does see the light of day... it's just no one else can use it.

I am lucky enough to have two kits and both of them are nice. What am I supposed to do, buy a kit I don't like as much just so I can take it to gigs, while my good set sits at home for practice only? I don't think so. For me it's important to play on the best I can afford, what ever that happens to be, and then take them to gigs and treat it like any other expensive musical intrument. With a lot of care, including being careful about who plays them.

Hey, stuff happens on a gig, but I'm willing to look after my kit the best I can and let the beer bottles and patrons fall where they may.

[Vipercussionist]

I am lucky enough to have two kits and both of them are nice. What am I supposed to do, buy a kit I don't like as much just so I can take it to gigs, while my good set sits at home for practice only? I don't think so. For me it's important to play on the best I can afford, what ever that happens to be, and then take them to gigs and treat it like any other expensive musical intrument. With a lot of care, including being careful about who plays them.

Hey, stuff happens on a gig, but I'm willing to look after my kit the best I can and let the beer bottles and patrons fall where they may.

Seeing as playing drums is part of my living I have one of my kits all packed up and waiting to go at a moments notice,
there will be no "I can't get my drums to the gig!!" excuse for me. It's my instrument, of COURSE I'm able to bring it.

[Concrete Pete]

Hey Crew,

Maybe I'm way off kilter on this, but NO, in my opinion. Unless he's a REAL good buddy, agrees to replace what he might damage, or lays down a cash deposit!

I don't let anyone else borrow my toothbrush, ride either of my classic Harleys, play one of my harps, borrow my power tools, (I'm a general contractor) or borrow anything out of my gun collection.

Call me selfish, but I prefer to call myself "sensible" from 52 years of life experience.

Cheers,
C. P.

[Big_Philly]

1) Play it as it lies, don't move anything as I don't want you to and it's my kit.
2) You can use your snare drum if you have your own stand, as you can't adjust mine, I won't let you.
3) You can use your own cymbals if you wish and because it's an easy adjustment, you CAN lower the stands if needed. They're mine, I say it's OK.


Why be anal about the snare drum stand but not about the cymbal stands (no offense!) ? Mispositioned cymbals are just as annoying as a mispositioned snare drum, and both problems are equally quick and easy to fix. I let other drummers that play my kit adjust whatever they need as long as they help me set it back up again. To me that is only common sense.

The last drummer to use my kit lowered my throne a notch and forgot to mention it and didn't put it back the way it was. No biggie, takes 5 seconds to fix. It wasn't nearly a big enough adjustment to disturb my playing.

I don't want my playing quality to go down because of a 5 degree difference in tom / snare angles. For this reason I don't use memory locks when setting up or tearing down. Every time I set up my kit it's a little different. Takes a couple minutes of tweaking but that's what sound checks are for.

[caddywumpus]

But you have another kit you're not too worried about which is cool.

It IS pretty cool! It takes a lot of the worry and stress away while out gigging.


I don't have the space for 2 kits, if I did I wouldn't be having this discussion.

My 2nd kit takes up about 23"x22" total floor space. It's in cases and stacked in the corner, ready to go at a moment's notice.


I do think though there's not much point having a nice expensive kit if its never going to see the light of day! Mine does see the light of day... it's just no one else can use it.

My DW hasn't seen much "light of day" because UV light will yellow the whiteness of the pearl wrap. It HAS, however, seen the lights of many recording studios and quite a few "nicer" stages.
Seeing as playing drums is part of my living I have one of my kits all packed up and waiting to go at a moments notice,
there will be no "I can't get my drums to the gig!!" excuse for me. It's my instrument, of COURSE I'm able to bring it.

That's my feelings exactly, too. However, it's not EVERY musician's/promotor's feelings, and sometimes you've just got to roll with the punches and use someone else's kit (or let them use yours). I'd rather be an accomodating musician who gets more and better-paying gigs than one who is so protective of his kit that he turns down gigs just because there will be kit-sharing involved. (No finger-pointing intended, just a relevant hypothetical example)

The point is, it's NO BIG DEAL unless you make it into one. I decided not to make it one by getting a GREAT-sounding kit that I decided I wasn't going to care about cosmetically. So far, it has worked out ideally! I still care about it like I would any other musical instrument anyone takes to a gig, but just not in any kind of overly-protective way. I save that for my other kit...

[Stoney]

[I]It IS pretty cool! It takes a lot of the worry and stress away while out gigging.
t like I would any other musical instrument anyone takes to a gig, but just not in any kind of overly-protective way. I save that for my other kit...


23"x22" total floor space is 23x"22" floor space. I live with my wife and she'd rather use that space for a nice piece of furniture or something... Women eh? hehe

I got rid of my DW's and have just purchased a 1965 Ludwig in Marine Pearl. It's yellowed but I love it more for it. It's what gives it history and character. Even nicotine stains on the original resonant tom heads! (although I'm going to re-head it before I take it out) Also I bet it hasn't been shared as it's in pristine condition. Not a scratch!

Anyway, I get plenty of better well paid gigs thanks. In fact, it's only to the smaller club type gigs that I'm referring to hear as they're the ones you're most likely to share.

How about this? For a second, pretend you have got just the one kit (your DW's) You've just re-skinned it and you're headlining a show tomorrow in some small venue. 4 other bands want to use it, they're all Heavy Metal bands and there's no other option. Since you don't want to turn a gig down ;) what will you do?

[Stoney]

ps a musicians career is not going to be affected by if they choose to share their gear or not! It's just a musician having respect for his tools that's all!

[caddywumpus]

[I]


How about this? For a second, pretend you have got just the one kit (your DW's) You've just re-skinned it and you're headlining a show tomorrow in some small venue. 4 other bands want to use it, they're all Heavy Metal bands and there's no other option. Since you don't want to turn a gig down ;) what will you do?

How much does it pay? :D

I probably wouldn't play it. The bands I'm in right now wouldn't share the bill with metal bands.

That's kind of a side point that I wasn't going to bring up, but I guess I should now: if you're sharing the bill with metal bands, grunge revival bands, prog rock bands, or other genres that stereotypically "abuse" their kits through heavy-handed playing or trash their instruments at the end of a set, then you DO have to worry about the condition of your kit at the hands of other drummers. I would just assume that it just comes with the territory. It's kind of a "price you pay" to play those styles of music. It's like having to take multiple trips to unload your kit from the car is a "price you pay" for playing drums instead of the piccolo (which has its OWN price, too...).

If I share my kit at a "dinner music" latin/jazz set or a classic rock wedding gig, I don't have to worry about that kind of stuff--Just the potential for scratching the wrap or knocking over a stand while re-adjusting the kit's positioning.

[grooveweapon]

[I]


How about this? For a second, pretend you have got just the one kit (your DW's) You've just re-skinned it and you're headlining a show tomorrow in some small venue. 4 other bands want to use it, they're all Heavy Metal bands and there's no other option. Since you don't want to turn a gig down ;) what will you do?

Here is an instance where one would probably have people sign a contract. It always sounds stupid until something happens and you realize how unreliable people can be. They will look at you, shrug their shoulders, get a little grin on their face and say, "man I'm sorry dude that really sucks..." YEAH it sucks. You just cost me a bunch of time and money... but they are probably going to treat your equipment with more respect and TLC if they are bound by their signature.

I, personally, never break my own equipment. I've cracked two (cheap) cymbals in 13 years of playing, broken two snare heads (from tuning too high when I used to think it was cool) and a handful of sticks, which is practically unheard of considering I hit "medium and occasionally heavy" rather than light. However, I know that most people have less luck with their equipment and I usually fear the worst if someone sits at my kit...I also play in a metal band and so I associate with other metal drummers. I know ONE of those drummers that I would have no problem with letting him play through a set on my kit because I trust him enough. He's just an honest, cool guy.

I've run across a lot of a-holes in my years playing gigs, not just drummers but musicians in general and the like (includes crowd members). When you are in the atmosphere of playing loud, rockin music at a club where everyone is drinking...the last thing people are thinking is "I wonder if that one guy's drumkit is ok." They could care less and may never be seen again.

[mrchattr]

I've run across a lot of a-holes in my years playing gigs, not just drummers but musicians in general and the like (includes crowd members). When you are in the atmosphere of playing loud, rockin music at a club where everyone is drinking...the last thing people are thinking is "I wonder if that one guy's drumkit is ok." They could care less and may never be seen again.

That reminds me of one other point...slightly different than not kit-sharing at gigs...but I'm amazed at how many times I have been asked to let a drummer sit down at my kit between sets, etc, at bars...and have found out that the person isn't a drummer at all, just is drunk and wants to mess around on the drums. Seriously, in my current cover band alone this has happened 5 or 6 times in the last year. The guy comes up, asks if he can play, and when I try to talk shop with him, he doesn't know what I mean when I say anything drum-related. It is another reason to not let someone you don't know mess around on your kit...that can cause problems not only for your kit, but for the audience as well, which can impact re-bookings.

[Stoney]

Yes it's not only drummers unfortunately. There's also a risk of your kit getting damaged by just being there. I did a gig once where the support band was some electro goth outfit who didn't even have a drummer (just a drum machine). My kit was set up behind (safe as houses I thought) but the singer (or should I say "singer") decided to use my bass drum as some sort of stage prop by resting his foot and leaping off of it!! Swift words were said afterwards. That was an exception though. Generally most people aren't that disrespectful (or stupid).
So generally if I can't set my kit and leave it untouched, I prefer to put it to the side of the stage. There should be absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be able to do this. Even if change over times are tight it's actually quicker for me to whip everything back on than to sit there adjusting everything once again. If the engineer has a problem with it and thinks it's more than his 'job's worth" I'll do it myself! Besides, if a house engineer does get stroppy about re-placing a few mics then it's probably half the reason why he's stuck being the house sound engineer at the 'Dog and Bollock' and not being picked up and taken out on tour....

Also I'll add this before someone leaps at the chance......
You may argue that engineers prefer to use the same kit as they've spent the whole gig EQing it and getting the best out of it (of course they do as it makes their life easier). But that's what soundchecks are for. And if you've got your own sound engineer (which luckily most the time I do) this is irrelevant.

[Stoney]

It IS pretty cool! It takes a lot of the worry and stress away while out gigging.
I'd rather be an accomodating musician who gets more and better-paying gigs than one who is so protective of his kit that he turns down gigs just because there will be kit-sharing involved. (No finger-pointing intended, just a relevant hypothetical example)kit

The thing is I am an accommodating drummer. Just not when it comes to sharing my gear. If there's no room for someone to set up in front, I'll tear down mine and stick it at the side of the stage. If there's no room at the side of the stage I'll stick it in the dressing room (up two flights of stairs if need be). Anything for piece of mind.

I've done support gigs where the headliners wouldn't let me touch their kit OR move it so my only option would be to stick mine in front. There maybe not much space so the singer ends up practically sitting on my bass drum! It maybe the only option though and it's about making whatever circumstances work and respecting the headliners. If the headliners say set up in front or use mine, I'll access the situation. If I do end up using their's I'll always use my own cymbals, snare, stool, kick pedal and sometimes stands and NEVER adjust anything of theirs. So yes I am accommodating towards other drummers. As I said its a huge inconvenience to me sometimes and no one else.

At the end of the day if someone feels like they're being inconvenienced because they didn't want the inconvenience of bringing their own gear. Then TOUGH!

[Vipercussionist]

That reminds me of one other point...slightly different than not kit-sharing at gigs...but I'm amazed at how many times I have been asked to let a drummer sit down at my kit between sets, etc, at bars...and have found out that the person isn't a drummer at all, just is drunk and wants to mess around on the drums. Seriously, in my current cover band alone this has happened 5 or 6 times in the last year. The guy comes up, asks if he can play, and when I try to talk shop with him, he doesn't know what I mean when I say anything drum-related. It is another reason to not let someone you don't know mess around on your kit...that can cause problems not only for your kit, but for the audience as well, which can impact re-bookings.

I've made a few "rules" about this very subject.

One "rule" that works is:
"The leader of the band doesn't want anyone playing that is not a member of the band, we're here to do a show and also impress the owner because we need more work from this venue."

Another that works is:
"The venue owner doesn't want any commotion from the stage between sets, he's trying to sell drinks, he doesn't want distractions from making sales."

If those don't work due to the "wannabe" being too drunk or obnoxious, a stern NO and a nod to the bouncer usually gets it done.

[rogue_drummer]

Ya, it never ceases to amaze me how some people view drums and drummers by disrespecting their equipment, insisting on playing a kit between sets, while you are trying to set up on stage, etc. And wanting to borrow all of your stuff because they didn't bring any of theirs. I mean, seriously, you never see horn players share horns and mouthpieces, violin players sharing violins because they forgot theirs, someone wanting to borrow an upright string bass because "yours" is better than theirs, or a french horn player asking to borrow your mouthpiece. I mean, come on!!

I very much agree 100% with most on here. You have invested hundreds if not thousands of dollars on your equipment and worked very hard to get the drums to sound well. Why let someone else play your kit, particularly if they are not drummers you know very well and know of their work?

[bobacwrd]

After reading all the responses in this thread I must admit there are a few very creative ones posted. But at the end of the day I have to side with Stoney. I have taken the expense on affording the best instrument as I possibly can and it is not only MY instrument, it is also as I feel, an extension of me. I have found in most cases when drummers ask to share (Not always but in many of my experiences) it is because they don't have or want to bring their own stuff. In most cases when there is only one setup that will be used, the promoters usually provide the equipment or another drummer is requested to provide his equipment and is mutually agreed upon prior to the gig. I usually know this up front and can make the ultimate choice of either playing on another kit or not doing the gig at all. I too have multiple kits all costing thousands each. I don't care if others posting here don't agree with how much the costs for ones instument is and don't place any emphasis or value on that. When I bring my drums to a gig, it is intended for only 1 person to use them...ME! Sorry if that chaps your hide but get over it. If you feel your equipment can be considered community property than maybe U R a bigger person than me. Trust me, I'll sleep OK knowing that. I feel if you are out gigging then you would be considered a pro and its time to act like one. As I said earlier, if you are playing a gig and there is no means for other sets, that is usually agreed to before hand and you make your choices accordingly. As for the guy that thinks he can do everything in 5 minutes, you obviously don't have much gear worth a shit, haven't been gigging for long, or just don't care wahat it sounds like. If I ruffled feathers, I apologize, but to try and tell someone he's wrong about wanting to lend his instument or to make him feel like shit because of it is absurd.

[mrchattr]

On the 4th of July, I had an interesting experience with all of this. My cover band was headlining a multi-band show in Baltimore, under the fireworks. It was at a pretty respectable club, and the promoter told us there would be a house kit. I actually made sure it was a house-owned kit, not a shared band kit. When I found out that it was, I decided that, for once, I wouldn't take my shells with me. I still took everything else, including a snare drum, 'cause it could all fit in my trunk. I left my bass and toms home, though.

So we get to the show, and by the time a few bands have played, I kid you not, the house kit is destroyed. The snare head is busted, the bass pedal is busted, one of the rack toms was knocked off its mount and has cracked, and one crash is cracked. Also, the hi hat stand is no longer functioning.

The band that is scheduled to play before us agrees to let the other bands use their drummers kit, as the house kit is unusable. They set it up, and by the time they go on, they have to change a snare head, have a broken crash cymbal, and have watched two singers stand on and jump off their bass drum. The drummer came up to me and asked if I had a kit, because he didn't want his being used any more. I apologized, and told him I would use everything of my own if I could just use his bass and toms. I promised him I would baby everything. He allowed me to use the shell pack, and I treated it very well. I did.

Stuff like this is so uncommon, but it happens. A lot of the bands that played were metal, but we hadn't been told that going in. Also, some of the drummers were so bad, they couldn't make it through a single song without dropping out, and then would just slam through everything else. I don't even understand how they got the gig...but I do know that it re-enforced my rule that no one plays my kit, ever, and reminded me that I should always have my own kit there, no matter what.

[JT1]

I must say this is an entertaining thread and a very good question. Examples do spring to mind from bad experiences. (just for the record i always make sure that other bands bring their breakables i.e snare, bass pedal, throne and cymbals and that is the way we always do it).

It's funny i don't think i've ever met anyone who hasn't brought these things to a gig. But anyway back to the stories.

It was my 20th birthday and i was playing a gig with my punk/metal band at the time and i had bought myself a brand new Mapex M Birch which had never been used in a gig situation. Then on comes the support, i stared in horror as the drummer laid down a carpet with holes made in it to fit the bass drum spurs and he actually attached these from the underside with the 'screwy bit' that comes with them. I knew it wasn't going to be good. Then i sat in fear till they started to play and oh my god, this guy wasn't just a heavy hitter he was a pulveriser. He actually turned his sticks the other way around and played them like that. On top of that, his bass pedal beater must have been set 2 inches away from the head, and he used his full leg with maximum force to drive the beater into the head (just as well i had my Slug batter pad on otherwise it would have split for sure) Well i actually had to leave because i couldn't watch my kit being played like that. When i came back they had finished and my tom skins looked like pizza. From that day i never allowed him to play my drums again unless i'm using my old kit, which is the only kit i now take to gigs if there is more than one band playing.

Another time i was using my CB drum kit lol and it had the original head on it. The support came on and he put the pedal through the bass drum. I didn't charge him anything because i knew the bass drum skin was ready to go anyway and he offered but i refused. Anyway with the help from beer mats and gaffer tape we stuck the skin back together. My band and the headline act (a death metal band) managed to play full sets with the bass drum still in tact.

So yeah if i have to take drums to a gig, i take my old ones and anyone can use them cause they are battered anyway but it still does the job. And if you don't have a batter pad on your bass drum and turn up to a gig where more then one person is using the kit, stick a beer mat on it to reduce the impact to the skin. It does the job well and when you're finished just peel it off, simple.

[JT1]

Just trying to get across that I don't get the whole "I don't share my drums as a general policy out of ego" thing. Guitar players don't share their guitars simply for that reason that its much easier to get a guitar to a gig and changing requires no time at all. Amps though are shared all the time (at least where I live).

I agree with this point entirely. Although i can see why drummers might not want others using their kit. Drums are difficult and annoying to lug around everywhere, amps and guitars are a lot easier, if you can come to an agreement about who brings amps and lets others use them and who brings drums i think that is fair. It saves time, complications and is the right thing to do. Since i take my old CB kit to gigs where there are a few bands playing, i don't mind what they do to it, they can re arrange, tune or whatever.

I must say though, never in my whole time gigging (about 4 years) have i come across one drummer who has wanted to tune my toms. That is not bragging about how good my sound is cause it certainly is not the best but just because they want to set up and play and not be bothered with the hassle of tuning. And for the record, if someone dd want to tune my drums (excluding my snare) i would let them because the chances are they would do a better job of it than i could if not, it would help me to learn and i would happily try retuning them afterward as part of the learning process.

I remember i played a gig once with a metal band and the drummer had a beautiful double bass Tama star classic performer (i think) which he let me play with no hesitation and he was even kind enough to tune my snare for me. I thought when there are people like this in the drumming community, i will happily share my kit cause mine was no where near as expensive as that thing. I just think when people come along with the wrong attitude, i will say no. I tend not to let anyone use breakables though unless it is only my throne that they need.

I just feel that at gigs you should reach a compromise and i think most people should be willing to share there gear with other musicians if their attitude is right.

[Manderson]

I gotta agree with stoney on this one. i hate sharing my kit. dont get me wrong, i have done it many times, but i dont like it at all. I play some guitar and bass too, but my main instrument is drums. i chose to play drums and i knew they were a pain to set up, tear down, and lug around when i started. like you said, you never see a guitar player offering over a $3000 guitar for some dude to put on and scratch with his belt buckle or whatever. My kit is fairly scratched up at this point...lots of road time, but they are my scraches...ha. When i do share my kit, there is certainly not going to be any adjusting of...well...anything. If you dont like it the way it is, set up your own! I always take my kit if im playing somewhere, even if someone were to offer up a kit to share, i wouldnt feel comfortable playing on it, and i certainly wouldnt make any changes to it. When approched, i try not to be rude about it, i just explain in detail...most drummers understand.

[Owen.T]

i don't let anyone and i mean anyone on my pork pie custom.... it wiped out most of my savings when i got it.

i won't even let my mum clean it or round.

but i do let anyone who wants to go on my DD505 that i use to practice

[bobacwrd]

Look, we all have choices we make in life. And most everyone if not everyone here on this forum is a drummer. You know when you picked up the instrument, that there were issues regarding the amount of gear that needs to be transported and how long it takes to set it up. If you don't, then check your ears for shit because your heads up your ass. Just because the drums are a cumbersome instrument doesn't in anyway make someone obligated to have to share their equipment. There isn't a responsibility here to provide another musician with your gear. If there is an understanding before hand or if you are one of those who don't mind lending or supplying gear that's your choice and if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, I'm glad it gets you moist. But I think there are more than a few on this post that can attest to having something broken, stolen, missplaced, whatever, after lending their gear to others. Shure, when someone approaches you to borrow your gear they seem very cool at first, and all that, but wait till something gets broken, bent or misaligned and you inquire about it, see what happens then. Try collecting money for damages. Fat chance. Not to mention the time and pain you have to go through getting a replacement. Heaven forbid it is a one of a kind. Sure someone will say "what are you doing bringing one of a kind item to a gig anyway", but I shouldn't have to compromise what I choose to use at a gig because somebody else may think I'm obligated to lend it to them becasue they chose to play the drums and it such a problem instrument to lug around so I'll just borrow someone elses. I say go pound sand.

[PQleyR]

At a typical gig that I find myself playing at, the stage/back room are not big enough to accomodate more than one drum kit, the changeover time is no more than 15 minutes, and you can't load out during the gig because of noise abatement orders or the threat of them.
Kit sharing is the only practical option. One drummer brings the kit, the rest bring breakables (snare, cymbals, kick pedal, sticks). Whether you adjust things is up to the owner of the kit...yes, you can change it back, but not in ten minutes or less with no opportunity to try it out beforehand and the usual chaos all around.

The fact that this question has arisen at all surprises me. Perhaps my experience is a UK thing.

[FunkyJazzer]

Look, we all have choices we make in life. And most everyone if not everyone here on this forum is a drummer. You know when you picked up the instrument, that there were issues regarding the amount of gear that needs to be transported and how long it takes to set it up. If you don't, then check your ears for shit because your heads up your ass. Just because the drums are a cumbersome instrument doesn't in anyway make someone obligated to have to share their equipment. There isn't a responsibility here to provide another musician with your gear. If there is an understanding before hand or if you are one of those who don't mind lending or supplying gear that's your choice and if it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, I'm glad it gets you moist. But I think there are more than a few on this post that can attest to having something broken, stolen, missplaced, whatever, after lending their gear to others. Shure, when someone approaches you to borrow your gear they seem very cool at first, and all that, but wait till something gets broken, bent or misaligned and you inquire about it, see what happens then. Try collecting money for damages. Fat chance. Not to mention the time and pain you have to go through getting a replacement. Heaven forbid it is a one of a kind. Sure someone will say "what are you doing bringing one of a kind item to a gig anyway", but I shouldn't have to compromise what I choose to use at a gig because somebody else may think I'm obligated to lend it to them becasue they chose to play the drums and it such a problem instrument to lug around so I'll just borrow someone elses. I say go pound sand.


WIN!


I've never had a bad experience with kit-sharing yet, fortunately.

However, I did a birthday party gig the other night (it was the bassist's 18th) and there were two bands playing - the birthday boy was in both of the bands. My band was an acoustic/folk/blues group and his other group was a hard rock/metal band (lol).

The drummer from the rock band was kind enough to let me use his kit as the organisers of the party (mum and dad) didn't want kits to be swapped around. No way was he going to use my Jungle kit with coated amby's. I kind of had to use his and OHMYGOD.

I managed fine in the end with a bit of tweaking, but jesus christ. It was a Premier Cabria, that had clear EC2's on the toms. I couldn't BELIEVE how loose he had taken the heads. There were wrinkles all over the heads, and when I hit the drums the lugs would rattle - that's how loose they were. They sounded like cardboard boxes obviously, if not worse. I took a drum key and did like 3 full turns on each of his lugs and they immediately sounded pretty decent. There was also a full duvet stuffed in the 20" bass drum too - not much I could do about that :( He had his cymbals set up ala Travis Barker too, that annoyed me.

YES, I've got a right to be annoyed. I'm grateful to him for letting me use his kit, but I'm just appalled about how many people don't know how to tune their drums for live situations. It's such a shame, so many good kits...and talent (not really in this case, though), gone to waste.

When they did their set, I couldn't hear anything he hit except for his cymbals and snare - which sounded really dead by the way. It's pretty bad if you're in a metal band and you can't even hear the bass drum, it must be said.

That's the most recent kit-sharing experience I've had anyway.

[bobacwrd]

"The fact that this question has arisen at all surprises me. Perhaps my experience is a UK thing".


I don't understand that response. Why would the question surprise you? If you go back to the beginning of the thread Stoney was asking if he should feel guilty or obligated to have to lend his drums when he personally doesn't feel comfortable doing so. Your response implies that all drummers are obligated to do so. You state that most of the gigs you play at there isn't sufficient room for setting up additional kits. As I stated earlier that we all have and make choices. You choose to involve yourself with gigs that require someone to supply or lend out his personal equipment. It sounds like you are OK with that scenario. I say, good for you. Your choice, your situation. My choice....I don't involve myself with those types of gigs. If I can't use my own equipment and or might be approached or even required to lend out my stuff, I don't go to those gigs. My choice solely. I have spent years honing my skills on my own personal instrument. When I go to a gig that I might have to use foreign equipment, I feel I am not going to perform at my best. If I don't perfrom to the best of my ability, then I am not enjoying it (and bottom line is, if you ain't having fun, what got you involved with the instrument in the first place). Be it because of the unfamiliarity of a foreign set, drum locations, sizes, head tesnions, inferior equipment, tired heads, whatever. Some drummers thrive in situations where they use foriegn equipment. In some instances the other guys stuff is much better than what they have been accustomed to playing on. Not so in my case. So f I can't enjoy the experience of playing the gig, I don't get involved. But to imply that kit sharing is anothers responsibility or its basically understood, I say you are mistaken and judging from your response that what it seems you are saying. Its not an orgy. No obligation on my part. Shallow, Pompass, Crass, Selfish? Deal with it. Not trying to be or sound like a dick. But its not a shovel and pail that we are sharing in the sandbox. Judging from most of the posts, there have been many unpleasant instances with kit sharing. I'm not saying that some have had positive experiences. But it only takes one negative event to wipe out all the positives. I say if you come to play, bring your own shit. Unless you died for the cause and rose on the 3rd day, don't ask to borrow mine. Maybe its a U.S. thing

[Caz]

I can completely understand both views on this.. on the one hand everyone who shares equipment does get burned at some point, but on the other I'm sure most of us have been in the situation where a random gig gets arranged on the night, or you're touring with a band or whatever and you need to borrow something to play. I turned up to play at a music festival and we were the headlining act of the stage we were on, and just as we were about to play the stage kit was taken away (as it belonged to someone who had to leave early). Thankfully one of two drummers (in an awesome band called The Joe Acheson Quartet, check them out) let me use his Pearl Masters kit - he was totally cool and allowed me to set it up any way I wanted, and to help out a bit I blagged him a couple of drinks vouchers (just a couple.. stingy festival organisers!!)

It's probably like most situations that require being generous, it's completely fair enought to have your reservations, but 9 times out of 10 a good deed is much appreciated by those in need. Good judgement's probably the best way to go about it.

[rogue_drummer]

Ya, I can agree with that. But to allow some douche who shows up with nothing at all, not even sticks, and expects to borrow everything, unless his kit was stolen, house burned up and took it with it, or he's from out of town and didn't know to bring his kit, is pushing it, in my book.

[PQleyR]

"The fact that this question has arisen at all surprises me. Perhaps my experience is a UK thing".


I don't understand that response. Why would the question surprise you? If you go back to the beginning of the thread Stoney was asking if he should feel guilty or obligated to have to lend his drums when he personally doesn't feel comfortable doing so. Your response implies that all drummers are obligated to do so. You state that most of the gigs you play at there isn't sufficient room for setting up additional kits. As I stated earlier that we all have and make choices. You choose to involve yourself with gigs that require someone to supply or lend out his personal equipment. It sounds like you are OK with that scenario. I say, good for you. Your choice, your situation. My choice....I don't involve myself with those types of gigs. If I can't use my own equipment and or might be approached or even required to lend out my stuff, I don't go to those gigs. My choice solely. I have spent years honing my skills on my own personal instrument. When I go to a gig that I might have to use foreign equipment, I feel I am not going to perform at my best. If I don't perfrom to the best of my ability, then I am not enjoying it (and bottom line is, if you ain't having fun, what got you involved with the instrument in the first place). Be it because of the unfamiliarity of a foreign set, drum locations, sizes, head tesnions, inferior equipment, tired heads, whatever. Some drummers thrive in situations where they use foriegn equipment. In some instances the other guys stuff is much better than what they have been accustomed to playing on. Not so in my case. So f I can't enjoy the experience of playing the gig, I don't get involved. But to imply that kit sharing is anothers responsibility or its basically understood, I say you are mistaken and judging from your response that what it seems you are saying. Its not an orgy. No obligation on my part. Shallow, Pompass, Crass, Selfish? Deal with it. Not trying to be or sound like a dick. But its not a shovel and pail that we are sharing in the sandbox. Judging from most of the posts, there have been many unpleasant instances with kit sharing. I'm not saying that some have had positive experiences. But it only takes one negative event to wipe out all the positives. I say if you come to play, bring your own shit. Unless you died for the cause and rose on the 3rd day, don't ask to borrow mine. Maybe its a U.S. thing

Hmm, the tone of this post was not at all friendly, was it? I'm not interested in an argument, my friend...let me explain a bit further.

The point I was making was that in my own experience, it is almost never practical for every drummer at a gig to bring their kit. That's the truth. And this is arranged in advance, too...no assumptions that you'll be able to use someone's kit...you play the gig based on the kindness of another drummer prepared to share their kit. I would say that around 90% of the gigs I have ever done, in all sorts of venues, in all sorts of places, this is the system that is in place. That's the reason I was surprised, because I'm not used to there being any room for manoeuvre on this issue. Venue owners and sound engineers would laugh if I turned up expecting to set up another kit because there's no time or space for it. I would certainly never turn up to a gig expecting to use another drummer's kit without their permission, but usually their permission to do just that is granted in advance of the event taking place...

I'm not asking you to share your drums, by the way. I'll bring my own.

[bobacwrd]

Hmm, the tone of this post was not at all friendly, was it? I'm not interested in an argument, my friend...let me explain a bit further.

The point I was making was that in my own experience, it is almost never practical for every drummer at a gig to bring their kit. That's the truth. And this is arranged in advance, too...no assumptions that you'll be able to use someone's kit...you play the gig based on the kindness of another drummer prepared to share their kit. I would say that around 90% of the gigs I have ever done, in all sorts of venues, in all sorts of places, this is the system that is in place. That's the reason I was surprised, because I'm not used to there being any room for manoeuvre on this issue. Venue owners and sound engineers would laugh if I turned up expecting to set up another kit because there's no time or space for it. I would certainly never turn up to a gig expecting to use another drummer's kit without their permission, but usually their permission to do just that is granted in advance of the event taking place...

I'm not asking you to share your drums, by the way. I'll bring my own.


If I came over too strong or you felt that I was trying to incite an argument I apologize. That was not my intention. I was just trying to get a point across. You stated that in your experience that it is almost never practical to bring ones kit to the gig and it is usually pre-arranged to kit share. With that in mind, you now know the particulars up front and can make the decision to participate or decline the gig. That is a totally amicable situation. The original poster was alluding to a different situation in regards to when one has already arrived at a gig with his personal set in tow and is approached to share his wares with others. In his experiences he has been made to feel guilty or obligated to do so by those that have either come ill prepared to do so or have taken for granted the situation and have now put him in an awkward position. There are other posters that have replied like one should have to share his equipment if approached and another poster replied that one should be prepared to draw a contract to protect the integrity of ones posessions. Well we all know where that silliness will lead to. Lets face it, the type of music or genre one plays offers a different type of drummer and in most cases a different mindset, personality and values. The drummer that is playing soft jazz standards at a black tie affair is less likely to damage equipment and his personality and approach to the music is far more passive as to the death metal, volume based thrasher who approaches the instrument as if to offer it no quarter (with their tree-trunk thick sticks, If they actually bring them). The post was not alluding to regards of practicallity, availability or pre-arranged requirements, it was referring to those that feel they can simply show to the gig unprepared or unannounced, or a gig organizer not previously announcing to others the requirements of the event and expect that sharing ones equipment is going to be accepted by those who would be doing the supplying, whole-heartedly.

[Stoney]

Since I opened this thread and wrote my last post on here I had another nightmare experience recently...

I turned up to a gig (with my whole kit of course). We were on first and the main act was a blues soloist so no worries about kit sharing there.... so I thought. I enquired with the engineer and there turned out to be a third act playing (who have a drummer)! Found out their number, called them on route and yes of course they wanted to use mine. I said you can't as I need to leave early blah blah but lets talk about it when you get here. Also I may add that this was a debut gig for my newly skinned vintage 1965 ludwig.

The running order ran like this....

9.00 - us
9.40 - band (1st half of set)
10.20 - Blues Guy (Main act)
11.15 - band (2nd half of set)

Which would mean I'd have to wait around til at least 11.45 and I was planning to finish, pack up and leave by about 10. Anyway the band turned up and the drummer with nothing other than a pair of sticks (literally)! Their excuse being they had come over from New York and had no gear. (although that didn't stop their double bass player from hiring a double bass)?? I went on to explain that I have to get off as soon as I'm done so it's not possible to use mine etc. (whilst thinking in my head, why didn't you check this beforehand you morons)?!! They even said at one point... we'll drive your kit back home for you.... eeeerrrrr NO!!!!!

Eventually as they were nice guys and after much deliberation we agreed on a compromise. You can use my kit only if you play 4 songs for each your half sets. I was actually pushing for them not to play the 2nd half of their set at all but the main act didn't want to headline for some reason... think it was something to do with not going on too late.

So 9pm comes and I go on ....9.30 off. Next band on schedule and 10.10pm off. Main act (blues guy) 10.20 bang on time, brilliant. 10.50 still the blues guy..... 11.15 STILL the blues guy!!! He eventually got off stage at 11.30! This is where enough was enough for me. The band went on to do their 2nd half but I said, sorry guys I really have to go... if you want to blame anyone blame the blues guy (who was incidentally pretty good).

I thought I'd been generous enough with my gear and time up until that point so I started packing up (pretty peeved that I could've left at 10 after all)! finishing off with my bass drum and noticing a lovely dint in my brand new batter head... marvelous! Went out to say a few goodbyes and caught half a song of the band (minus the drummer). To hear that they sounded about a thousand times better without one!! Yes I failed to mention their drummer was bloody rubbish anyway!!!!

I swear that is the last time... whatever the excuses!!

[Stoney]

The fact that this question has arisen at all surprises me. Perhaps my experience is a UK thing.

I think it's a fair topic to bring up if you keep getting forced into sharing your expensive equipment that keeps get ruined! Let me guess... let's all talk about paradiddles instead?

[PQleyR]

I think it's a fair topic to bring up if you keep getting forced into sharing your expensive equipment that keeps get ruined! Let me guess... let's all talk about paradiddles instead?

I wasn't saying you shouldn't have brought it up...I was just surprised to learn of this happening to so many people when it's never happened to me (I have leant my kit out to people too, by the way). I'm also surprised that my comment has apparently irritated you so much, that was not the idea.

I notice now you're in London, so that's even more surprising...it's just totally different from my experiences with almost all gigs...

Usually, the headline band brings the kit, and all the other bands bring snare, cymbals, kick pedal(s), sticks, and maybe throne (the 'breakables'). The shells stay on but everything else is changed. Occasionally the headliner doesn't want to share, in which case one of the other bands will bring a kit and that will be shared, then taken off for the headliner. This is all arranged in advance, no assumptions about who's bringing what...same goes for guitar amps, where one band brings cabs and the others all bring heads or combos.

[con struct]

I can see that things have changed since I was doing the one-band-after-the-other thing. But when I was doing it every drummer brought his own kit and there were a couple of stage guys that sorted it all out.
I remember one club where we were the "headliner" and one of the stage crew, a big, big guy, lifted my bass drum with the two rack toms attached and carried it up a steep flight of steps to where my drums were stored until we went on. Then after the opening band finished he went up and carried it down again. As as I said, this guy was big!
Then there were the clubs that had a drum riser for the headline band and the opening band would put their drums right on the stage in front of the riser.
Once I was playing in the opening band and my kit was set up in front of an enormous double-bass-everything-and-the-kitchen-sink kit. It made my drums look like a toy.
So the drum-sharing thing is new to me. If this is how it's done these days then it should all be spelled out right from the start to avoid the obvious disasters that could ensue as a result of bad communication and misunderstandings.
But I'll tell you this, I'm really glad it's something I never had to deal with. I've always been really fussy about my stuff.

[caddywumpus]

Then there were the clubs that had a drum riser for the headline band and the opening band would put their drums right on the stage in front of the riser.

That brings back memories for me! Playing those dirty little bars that hold maybe 50 people max...

I'm wondering what kinds of venues all of this kit-sharing is happening at. Dive bars? Coffee shops? Grange halls? It sounds like much of the concerns are from people worrying about hard hitters and inconsiderate morons rather than clumsy guitarists, sound-guys or roadies. I'm wondering what types of places this is all happening at...

[Stoney]

[QUOTE=PQleyR;594791

I notice now you're in London, so that's even more surprising...it's just totally different from my experiences with almost all gigs....[/QUOTE]

That last gig was a bit of a one off I hope. It's a new project I'm doing and the singer kinda knew the band from New York and arranged everything without forewarning me about it so I kinda felt obliged to let them use my kit. They know better now though!

Personally whenever a gig has involved me getting on an airplane I've never relied on another band from another country for a drum kit and have always arranged to hire one. It's a bit of a long way to go without much certainty otherwise. What if the band providing pulled out at the last minute? I could've quite easily not turned up the other night. Then what would they have done?

[PQleyR]

That brings back memories for me! Playing those dirty little bars that hold maybe 50 people max...

I'm wondering what kinds of venues all of this kit-sharing is happening at. Dive bars? Coffee shops? Grange halls?

I've seen this in 25-capacity venues all the way up to 800+ places (the Garage in Islington, for example). Even in some of the bigger places there isn't space to get kits off and on the stage without moving absolutely everything off again. And come to think of it, I've only ever met one sound engineer who thought moving and re-micing three drum kits was quicker than changing over breakables. All the rest would think you were mad to try that...and having organised events and done live sound myself, I can really see where they're coming from.

I've also never seen a drum kit damaged at one of these. The only things that have ever happened are heads breaking that were very much on their way out anyway. People are very reluctant to share anything but the shells, of course. Cymbals do not get shared, likewise snares (or sticks! I can't believe some people expect to borrow sticks).

[JT1]

I've seen this in 25-capacity venues all the way up to 800+ places (the Garage in Islington, for example). Even in some of the bigger places there isn't space to get kits off and on the stage without moving absolutely everything off again. And come to think of it, I've only ever met one sound engineer who thought moving and re-micing three drum kits was quicker than changing over breakables. All the rest would think you were mad to try that...and having organised events and done live sound myself, I can really see where they're coming from.

I've also never seen a drum kit damaged at one of these. The only things that have ever happened are heads breaking that were very much on their way out anyway. People are very reluctant to share anything but the shells, of course. Cymbals do not get shared, likewise snares (or sticks! I can't believe some people expect to borrow sticks).

Yo man, I see you live in the UK. I have been reading your posts and everything you have said is what I have done at each one of my gigs. All arranged before hand, someone arranges to bring a kit to share as bringing more than 1 takes too much time and is not convenient at all. Then the guitarists sort out sharing amps etc. Then every drummer brings their breakables. I will not let people use my snare, pedal or cymbals. The throne is fine as long as they don't adjust it. I think it is similar almost everywhere in the UK as stupid as it sounds but it seems to me that American clubs and bars make everyone bring their own drums.

I have also made a decision regarding heavy hitters. I will ask them to hold back and if they don't I will warn them once more and if they continue to do so I will dismantle the kit mid-set i don't care if I'm 'the bad guy'. I always let friends and people I know use my kit as I know they would do the same for me and if I get into an instance where a band wants to use my kit and they already have before, I will make them bring theirs instead. I think these are fair terms.

[bobacwrd]

Well it seems that many of the gigs that are played in Britain require kit sharing. Maybe that's the norm there. I live in Los Angeles and we play many gigs where there is 3-5 bands playing per night using the same stage and soundman, and we all bring our own gear. One advantage we have here is the weather. It very seldom rains from late April through November and even during the so-called rainy season we may only get on average about 14 inches in a 4 month span. So bands can show up with their equipment and actually have their kit completely set up outside the venue and the preceding band can clear out while the band that follows can set up. At most of the venues we play there is a sufficient staging area. It takes approximatey 20 minutes with sound check per band and the soundman will run background music during the transittion. The break between bands is welcomed by the club as to allow people to get drinks and mingle briefly amongst others during the setup of the next band as long as the transittion is seamless and brief. We do this 3 times a month. Some venues also have ample space to have the following bands equipment stored, ready for setup. Usually, when a band is the only act on the bill they will play 3-4 40 minute sets with a 15-20 minute break in between sets. I can only attest to my own experiences. So basically, aside from setting up mics, the transittion is comparable between multiple acts as oppsed to a solo slot. That said, in regards to the kit sharing, a few mentioned that they have not experienced any of the horrors that most of the posters have replied to. I say good for you and I hope that remains the protocol for you in the future. BUT, wait until you have the negative event transpire and then you will feel the pain that most of other posters have described. All the positives you had experienced before will have no weight as to the anguish you will feel at that time of vulnerability. Everyone seems to be righteous and respectful prior to an incident, even friends. But in the event of a problem, the usual amnesia takes place. You will hear "I didn't do that" or "It was like that when I started playing" or "No way I'm paying for that" or the best one when friends are involved, "can I give you the money when I get paid". See how that plays out in the days or weeks that follow. Watch how the phone goes to voicemail everytime you call to collect or they're never at home or "I can't do it this paycheck but I probably can on my next one". Then wait and see how much the replacement piece or pieces will cost. Chances are it will be considerably more than when you purchased it originally if it is still available and now there is shipping fees and insurance costs involved that you end up paying for, or you have to take a day off from work or use other personal time to either be at home to accept delivery or you have to pick up the item yourself. That's if initially a fight doesn't commence when you approach a would be culprit of damaging your equipment. It doesn't matter how "Cheeky" the fellow was initially, there is always an altercation after. So as I stated before, if given the choice, I choose to use my own stuff and do not wish to lend it out. If that is not the case, I again choose to attend a different gig that will accomodate my wishes. Many drummers I know personally love their instrument more than they love their girlfriends or wives and yet they wouldn't want to lend them out either. But if that is also the case in Britain and you have a gorgeous girlfriend or wife you want to share, drop me a line I'll be over in a matter of hours....

[caddywumpus]

Many drummers I know personally love their instrument more than they love their girlfriends or wives and yet they wouldn't want to lend them out either.

Best post of the thread! Point taken!

[Stoney]

s. Many drummers I know personally love their instrument more than they love their girlfriends or wives and yet they wouldn't want to lend them out either.

Yes I think that just about sums it up! Unless of course you're into that seedy kinda world. In either case it will inevitably end up with some form of hurt in the end.... either emotionally or physically.