16th note bass drum dillema - Confused and frustrated

[Steviosticks]

Hi everyone this is my first thread and was looking for some advice on one particular type of beat im having trouble with, its 8th notes on hi hat with a certain combination of 16th notes on the bass drum, if i could do this consistently i would be a happy man as its a pretty popular beat in the type of music i would like to play, and i dont think my speed is the problem here so its frustrating me a bit.

Now i can do a quick beat if its on the 1 then the 'e' of 1 (mark morrison - return of the mack lol), no problem i can hit that a hundred times out of 100 at a good speed. It seems to be when the bass drum falls on the 'a' of the 2 count followed straight away with the shot on 3, there is also another version with an extra hit on the 'and' of 3 (nsync ft. nelly - girlfriend is a good example) . My speed in general on bass drum is fine thats why im confused just my brain seems to refuse to coordinate this one type of beat. I tryed slowing it down and building it back up but as soon as i put the speed up my foot wont do it. Is it a frequent problem?? Any tips would be much appreciated, thanx in advance.

[donv]

If it's the counting the e's and ah's that's creating the difficulty, just change your counting.
A visual example without time signatures stated.

1 e an ah 2 e an ah 3 e an ah 4 e an ah would be:
1 an 2 an 3 an 4 an 1 an 2 an 3 an 4 an

How you count something doesn't matter as long as you can follow it. As you improve and you begin to hear patterns rather then notes, your counting is going to change anyway. For standard, everyday four on the floor typcial rock eventually if you count at all, it will just be the downbeats. Your internal clock will take over the mundane. Then you can concentrate on the pretty girls watching you!

[larryace]

If I am understanding you correctly, it seems to me that if you practice the bass drum using a shuffle pattern, (triplets with the middle triplet silent) you will be concentrating on what you need to play what you described. Play eighth notes on the hi hat to sync the hands and feet together.

[denisri]

Hi
Just slow everything down quarter equals 50 BPM...now count out loud
1e&ah2............4e&ah...you must have ownership of every possible note on every limb of your body. Recording yourself will also help. Denis

[Steviosticks]

Thanx for the replies everyone,

Just so everyone knows I totally understand the counting of it thats no problem i was just trying to use that to explain the beat the best i could lol. It just confuses me how i can play a quick double on the 1 and the 'e' of 1, but not the 'a' of 1 and on the 2 count.

Larryace - i like the broken triplets idea that makes alot of sense, ive never tried triplets on feet with 8th note high hats but definetly gonna give it a go anyway, thanx for the idea, do u think it would be worth me just trying the bass on just the 'e' and 'a' without playing a kick on the actual number of the beat for a while??

Denis - will record my self and see if i can spot anything with my technique for that particular beat maybe im reacting wrong to it or something, another good idea thankyou

I spent about 30 mins on this one beat lastnight and i actually managed it a few times every 5 or 6 times i tried i hit it perfectly once, maybe its coming together, but i dont like the inconsitency im a bit of a perfectionist haha.

[larryace]

I think you'll be fine, you've already made progress and you said you did it at least once. Here's the thing about practicing. You practice for a 1/2 hour for instance and then you stop. But your subconscious is still trying to absorb it. It's still chipping away at it, even though you're eating lunch. Then the next day it becomes a little easier. It's kind of like when you have a problem and can't crack it, you walk away and take a break, and when you return, voila!
You asked me if it would be worth doing just the e and a....It couldn't hurt and it gives me the impression that you are actively trying to find your own solutions to push past this holdup. You'll do fine, just keep at it, and take Denis' advise and slow it down. If you can't play it slow, you can't play it fast.

[Steviosticks]

Hi, just thought i would leave a reply to say its really coming together now, basically i slightly changed my technique and its working wonders, i kind of use my ankle pivot more now and im finding that easier to control, and i didnt realise on that particular beat i was keeping the beater buried for too long, now if i just rest my foot slightly on the pedal as the beat is coming up then use my ankle it seems to work. im gettin the beat sort of 7 or
8 out of 10 times now, almost there :-), thanx to everyone for there help. All the best!

[Big_Philly]

http://i40.tinypic.com/whfhmx.jpg

These exercises will make it easier. Practise using alternating strokes (RLRL) on the hi-hat and snare. First play each bar one by one, then as a group (play each one 2 or 4 times and play through the whole sheet). When you get that down, try the same but playing 8ths on the hi-hat with your right-hand.
It won't come overnight, but if you do this every day and start slow you'll see progress in a couple of weeks.

[cheekydollar]

I seem to be having a similar problem as the original poster. Its a little while since the original post - any progress?!

I can easily do a quick 16th double on the bass drum when the 1st bass drum falls on the '1' and the 'e' but when I try it on the 'e' and the 'and' i really struggle!

hmm

[Fuo]

Ohhh.. I htink I finally understand what people mean here... so (all x = 1/8 note):

H: x x x x
B: oo

is easy, but:

H: x x x x
B: o oo

is tough? yea I have the same problem. i just practice exercises that focus on this EVERYDAY in order to try an overcome it (and a couple others like this):

H: x x x x x x x x
B: oo o o ooo oo


I started very slow (55bpm) when I started playing a few months ago, and slowly increase the tempo (like 5bpm/month).

[cheekydollar]

yeah thats it!

I can manage it some days and others my brain just doesnt compute.

[Fuo]

yeah. i think doing double kicks off the beat is easier because its easy to "cheat" by saying "ok foot, kick when the hand moves, then kick again really fast" without having REAL control, but double kicking into the beat is a lot tougher because it requires real control.

practice, practice, practice... and don't cheat i think. or at least try not to.

[Monica McCoy]

Play 16th notes on the hats so that you can easily line up the kick with a hand strike. Once you can play the groove that way, go back to keeping time in 8th notes.

[dairyairman]

the song that always used to throw me is "the world i know" by collective soul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7TLTjqUyog

not only does this song have the 16th note bass drum doubles starting on the "ah" count, but it's got a bunch of open hi hat stuff going on too. i learned it by playing the beat to a metronome slowly until i could get it up to tempo.

to me what's tricky about that type of double is the accent needs to come on the second hit. it takes some practice.

[Fuo]

Jamming to "Creep" by Radiohead and "Give it Away" by RHCP are also great songs for enjoyably practicing this (if you get bored with the 'nome). Both are basically the same beat all the way through, with e/a leading double kicks, and both are coincidentally 92 bpm which is just past my comfort zone for the tough doubles.

Creep (open last HH every other time):

x x x x x x x x
o o
o oo o


Give it Away:

x x x x x x x x
o o
o o o oo oo

[Hentex]

i had trouble with 'creep' and that bastard groove for 6 weeks... i even posted on here about it! The kick was doing my head in. I took on 16th note hihat with the kick then to 8th note hihat and just did it SLOW SLOOOOOW for ageis, now... im putting in ghosts notes and snare hits all over the place with most of the 16th note kick beats and well, i can do it really easily now upto 110bpm

So best advice is just keep it slow, dont rush it and simple switch up from 4th/8th/16ths on the hihat, might feel like a dead end for a few months, but it soon comes if u keep doing it every session.

I think this is important aswell - Make sure ur practicing it on your accoustic bass drum. I was doing it on my electric pd8 for ageis and that really screwed me up IMO.

[Fuo]

yea. the 1/16 hi hat thing is a good idea, unfortunately, when I get to a tempo where I have problems with these doubles, then i ALSO have a problem doing sustained, one handed 1/16's so that's not an option for me either (at this point in time). I could do alternating 1/16's, but then I run into right-hand/left-foot coordination problems (which I'm also working on at lower tempos)... the fun never ends :)