Open hand playing

[synergy]

I caught a little glimpse of the Dave Matthews BAND NY concert last night on tv. Amongst other things I noticed that Carter B plays in an open-hand style (I believe that is the correct term?- doesnt cross his arms)

For those of play this way- how do you feel you benefit from playing like this?

Looking at it from an non-drummer perspective it is quite odd that we play part of the kit with crossed hands- it seems to go against all the other things we learn around the other parts of the kit in relation to timing and moving around the kit etc.

I am looking at trying to broaden my drumming horizons as I am in kinda of a inspirational slump at the moment- and I wondered if this kind of playing helped to open things up?

[jameswadewilson]

Yes he plays open handed. I've been training myself to do that for the last couple of years and it has helped me immensely! It hasn't been easy though, and I'm still not completely comfortable with it, but now I do naturally ride on my hihat with my weak hand. This definitely has helped my weak side!

Some people rearrange their kits and add a ride cymbal on their weak side, but I didn't do any of that.

I love not having to cross over as much. Their some rhythms that I still haven't retrained myself for and cross. It's a lot of fun switching back and forth between crossed and open in a song...

I caught a little glimpse of the Dave Matthews BAND NY concert last night on tv. Amongst other things I noticed that Carter B plays in an open-hand style (I believe that is the correct term?- doesnt cross his arms)

For those of play this way- how do you feel you benefit from playing like this?

Looking at it from an non-drummer perspective it is quite odd that we play part of the kit with crossed hands- it seems to go against all the other things we learn around the other parts of the kit in relation to timing and moving around the kit etc.

I am looking at trying to broaden my drumming horizons as I am in kinda of a inspirational slump at the moment- and I wondered if this kind of playing helped to open things up?

[bonhamdrummer123]

I am naturally right handed but I naturally play open handed. My left side is still much weaker but since I dont have much stick control with my left I find it much more effective to play open handed where my strong hand is playing on the snare. If you play crossed and learn to play open, it will probably be much easier to switch between the hi hat and ride cymbal.

[Drifter in the Dark]

I'm right-handed and I've been playing for 11 years, but I've only recently begun to experiment with open-handed playing. If the beat is relatively simple without any ghost notes on the snare drum ("Killer Queen" by Queen for example), I'll use my left hand on the hi-hat. Playing open-handed also serves the purpose of giving my right hand a break from keeping time, not to mention that crossing over and having to worry about sticks colliding with each other can be really annoying sometimes!

[Sirwill]

I have been playing open handed since the day I started. That was 1975! I have been teaching myself to play crossed over the last 3yrs. I have found in my experience that its best to play what feels natural to you. I'm also ambidextrous (left and right handed). Though, learning both above mentioned methods really is a benefit to me. On slow bpm songs it feels great to lay into the hats with my right hand. When it comes to fast tempos and accent notes nothing feels more right then my right hand.

[drummingdunc]

I'm left handed and play open but keep my ride on the right of the kit. It's just the way I learnt. It's good cos it developed my weaker side and I can play patterns on the hats with my left and on the ride with my right, but I find myself leading fills with the left hand, which can cause problems, especially when rolling round the toms.
I'm thinking about moving my ride to the left like Carter Beauford, or money permitting, adding a 2nd ride...

[andSometimesY]

I saw that DMB concert too (awesome) and I always knew that Carter played open-handed, but I just realized that it allows him to have his hi hats almost as low as his snare! I think he is left handed naturally (he leads fills with left) so it was probably easier for him to learn that way than us rightys. Bobby Jarzombek also plays open but I am not sure if he is left handed or right (or ambidextrous). I am thinking of learning the style just to have it in my arsenal. It seems to be more efficient. Can you guys think of any other pros who play this way? I'm blanking.

[VedranS]

Simon Phillips, Billy Cobham, Lenny White, Dom Famularo, Mike Mangini, Gene Hoglan are some other drummers who play open handed. There are also people like Danny Carey and Bill Bruford, who've set up their set with the hi-hat in the middle, so they're never "crossed-over" but it's not the same kind of "open-handed" playing that the other guys do, who actually lead with their "weak" hand.

[andSometimesY]

Gene Hoglan? Doesn't he just play open for blasts? I do that as well. I have watched many videos of Mangini and Cobham and never noticed that they played open handed (i was probably too dumbfounded by their chops).

[Crazy+Hands]

Ive been playing this way since day one, i think it helped my hands develop a little more evenly than the traditional way...this style is all about building your weaker side! It has some advantages in efficiency and creativity, but i had some difficulties with it for years because my left hand was the stronger of the two, especially tom rolls leading with my right hand.

Open handed playing is great for blast beats and high bpm stuff, especially with two ride cymbals/hihats.

Billy Cobham was one of the pioneers of the style back in the early 70s i think...anyone know of any others before him?

Mangini does it with his smallest tom in the middle of the kit and descending sizes going in both directions, almost a completely different style than simon phillips/cobham or danny carey/bruford etc etc

I guess terry bozzio plays "open handed" as well on his chromatic/diatonic behemoth kit...

[VedranS]

Gene Hoglan? Doesn't he just play open for blasts? I do that as well. I have watched many videos of Mangini and Cobham and never noticed that they played open handed (i was probably too dumbfounded by their chops).

Dude, hoglans all open all the time. At least I've never seen him cross over. With Mangini I can see what you're saying, its all chops all the time, nothing too traditional about it. However, if you check out Cobham you'll notice a lot of similarities in his style to Beauford's.

It's not just the open playing that Carter copped off Billy, there are other aspects also. There's a very distinct fill that carter plays, which he totally took from Cobham. It sounds kind of like "krakata-krakata-krakata" to me, but it's obviously hard to put into words. It's a 4 stroke pattern where the groupings are like triplets, but at the 32nd note rate. That doesn't help, does it? Anyway, it's the "big chop" lick you can hear at the end of Ants Marching and a bunch of their other songs. Total Cobham chop, that's all I'm saying.

[Deathmetalconga]

I have been playing open handed since the day I started. That was 1975! I have been teaching myself to play crossed over the last 3yrs. I have found in my experience that its best to play what feels natural to you. I'm also ambidextrous (left and right handed). Though, learning both above mentioned methods really is a benefit to me. On slow bpm songs it feels great to lay into the hats with my right hand. When it comes to fast tempos and accent notes nothing feels more right then my right hand.

Same with me, although I started in 1983! I invite you and all other open hand drummers to join the group (see below).

I have always played open, left hand on hats and ride, right hand on snare and toms. I can't think of anything else people do crossed-handed. We eat, type, drive, use tools, fight, open doors and play all other instruments open handed. That's natural and ergonomic. Even crossed handed players put their ride to the right, so at least they can play open with they go to ride. I heard a guitarist once say that crossed-handed playing "kept drummers from playing too much" and he didn't like open-handed playing.

Like Crazy+Hands, I am right handed and I like having my dominant hand on the snare. The snare is the heart of the drum set and my right hand has slightly better fine movement control than my left hand and I like having my better hand on the heart of the kit. There are great advantages to having the snare, hats and ride all close to each other.

Also, it is good you don't confuse open playing with ambidextrous playing. I am as set in my ways as any crossed playing and do not often have my right hand play hats or ride. I can't, because my hats are about an inch above my snare. There is no right-handed or left-handed way to play the drum set. There is only open and crossed.

If you play like everyone else plays, you will sound like everyone else sounds.

[andSometimesY]

Dude, hoglans all open all the time. At least I've never seen him cross over. With Mangini I can see what you're saying, its all chops all the time, nothing too traditional about it. However, if you check out Cobham you'll notice a lot of similarities in his style to Beauford's.

It's not just the open playing that Carter copped off Billy, there are other aspects also. There's a very distinct fill that carter plays, which he totally took from Cobham. It sounds kind of like "krakata-krakata-krakata" to me, but it's obviously hard to put into words. It's a 4 stroke pattern where the groupings are like triplets, but at the 32nd note rate. That doesn't help, does it? Anyway, it's the "big chop" lick you can hear at the end of Ants Marching and a bunch of their other songs. Total Cobham chop, that's all I'm saying.


I love that fill in Ants Marching! I would love to learn it actually.

[Boomka]

It's not just the open playing that Carter copped off Billy, there are other aspects also. There's a very distinct fill that carter plays, which he totally took from Cobham. It sounds kind of like "krakata-krakata-krakata" to me, but it's obviously hard to put into words. It's a 4 stroke pattern where the groupings are like triplets, but at the 32nd note rate. That doesn't help, does it? Anyway, it's the "big chop" lick you can hear at the end of Ants Marching and a bunch of their other songs. Total Cobham chop, that's all I'm saying.

The lick you're thinking of is called a "Herta". It's a hybrid rudiment that is typically phrased as an 8th-note triplet. The first note of the triplet is doubled (16th note triplet rate) and the last two notes remain as normal.

As Cobham/Beauford often phrase it, it's two 32nds followed by two 16ths - i.e. a total length of three 16ths. This three 16th-note figure is then cycled through groups of four sixteenths. The resulting three-over-four pattern resolves after three groups of 16th notes (three 1/4 notes or twelve 16ths [12 being the lowest multiple of 3 and 4...]) and then Beauford plays the last beat of the bar as 16ths.

I'll split it into groups of four 16th notes so you can see where the 32nds fall in relation to the quarter note pulse.

R/L = 16ths
r/l = 32nds

rlRLrl RLrlR LrlRL RLRL

So if you're counting 1-e-&-a, etc. the 32nds fall on these counts 1..a ..& ..e. .... The periods represent 16th notes. Sorry, I don't have time to punch in and post a PDF of the notation... Perhaps later.

[VedranS]

The lick you're thinking of is called a "Herta". It's a hybrid rudiment that is typically phrased as an 8th-note triplet. The first note of the triplet is doubled (16th note triplet rate) and the last two notes remain as normal.

As Cobham/Beauford often phrase it, it's two 32nds followed by two 16ths - i.e. a total length of three 16ths. This three 16th-note figure is then cycled through groups of four sixteenths. The resulting three-over-four pattern resolves after three groups of 16th notes (three 1/4 notes or twelve 16ths [12 being the lowest multiple of 3 and 4...]) and then Beauford plays the last beat of the bar as 16ths.

I'll split it into groups of four 16th notes so you can see where the 32nds fall in relation to the quarter note pulse.

R/L = 16ths
r/l = 32nds

rlRLrl RLrlR LrlRL RLRL

So if you're counting 1-e-&-a, etc. the 32nds fall on these counts 1..a ..& ..e. .... The periods represent 16th notes. Sorry, I don't have time to punch in and post a PDF of the notation... Perhaps later.

Thanks, nice description, I found it very hard to put into words myself. I learned how to play this kind of lick by just playing it along to a metronome and then I'd see how many I could get in before the end of the bar. That way I figured out where it resolves if I play one measure, two, three, and so on...

[Cadet311]

For those of play this way- how do you feel you benefit from playing like this?



I'm currently working on becoming an open handed player... and it definitely requires some brain re-wiring! Take it slow... play basic beats then basic songs. I think it was Simon Phillips who would play something right hand lead and then left hand lead and attempt to even it out (or so I read I think).

As far as benefit... it definitely opens up the kit to more being done. As far as setup, it also opens possibilities depending on your style. It also allows me to be a little more creative with my fills and has helped increase my left hand focus, chops and ability.


I'm also ambidextrous (left and right handed).

I hate you... can I have your genes? :-)

[Sera]

I have been playing open handed since the day I started. That was 1975! I have been teaching myself to play crossed over the last 3yrs. I have found in my experience that its best to play what feels natural to you. I'm also ambidextrous (left and right handed). Though, learning both above mentioned methods really is a benefit to me. On slow bpm songs it feels great to lay into the hats with my right hand. When it comes to fast tempos and accent notes nothing feels more right then my right hand.

I started right-handed, and played one year with basic-set. Then I bought double pedals, and started all over again. Back to the basics, and in that moment my principle was: "what goes with right leg, must go with left leg too. Every practise I do, I do it total symmetrical.

I played second year, and then I desided to start playing open handed. About six months later I went to ambi and start all over again, but in that moment I thought that now I start total symmetrical training also with hands. Now I'm here in this point - I can play instantly what I hear, and I don't know what to do with it. Too old to be a rock'n'roll star, too restless to play adult pop songs. :)

[fusssion]

Simon Phillips was my inspiration ...when I saw him in a clinic in Ann Arbor, MI in 1985?? I'll NEVER forget it....unreal.

I am ambidexterous to begin with, so it was easy for me to accomplish ....

I'll play certain things open handed live for comfort, or for ease of completing OR getting the right feel for a 'fill' ....

[zambizzi]

Will Kennedy plays open as well, I was just watching an older MD Festival video the other day with him on it.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/William_Kennedy.html

I'm tempted to try it out and see if I take to it. I believe I'm ambidextrous as well and I might take to this fairly quickly (at least enough not to get frustrated and forget about it). When I started playing, I had my kit setup left-handed because it felt the most comfortable to me. My left foot is still faster and more easily controlled than my right and I often lead fills w/ my left hand. I can't ever seem to get entirely comfortable w/ crossing my arms.

Why not, eh?

[Deathmetalconga]

Will Kennedy plays open as well, I was just watching an older MD Festival video the other day with him on it.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/William_Kennedy.html

I'm tempted to try it out and see if I take to it. I believe I'm ambidextrous as well and I might take to this fairly quickly (at least enough not to get frustrated and forget about it). When I started playing, I had my kit setup left-handed because it felt the most comfortable to me. My left foot is still faster and more easily controlled than my right and I often lead fills w/ my left hand. I can't ever seem to get entirely comfortable w/ crossing my arms.

Why not, eh?

Go ahead and give it a try. You are still early enough in your playing to have some flexibility. You will find immediate benefits having your ride and hats close to each other.

Also, knowing how to play stuff crossed will give you an ambidextrous edge. While I have always played open, I have never tried for ambidexterity.

[drums_n_surf]

well im a left-hander and originally started learning cross handed on a lefty set-up (mirror image of normal right hand set up) and after about 2 months decided to set up the kit right handed and play open handed (mainly so it gave me the option of playing other people's kits without completely changing it)
it was a lot more naturaly and i feel it gives you lots more freedom on the things you can do, compared to playing cross-handed. Thats just my thoughts on it all :)

[evolving_machine]

I started playing again after a long absence in January 2009. Before I had stopped, 25 years ago, I was doing this technique in practice and about half the time when playing. I am now at the point again where I started doing it on practice with the high-hat and just purchased a vintage ride cymbal and stand for my left side.

[Tony Manzione]

What happen if you do like "Mauricio Claveria" DW drummer from "La Ley" (Chilean group) that means to put the Hi Hat on the right side beside the ride and control it with a left foot pedal with a "remote cable" hardware???

Wouldn't that be to play "open handed" as well??...

I am new on this, so excuse me if I am wrong with the concept, and thanks for any suggestion!!

[Deathmetalconga]

What happen if you do like "Mauricio Claveria" DW drummer from "La Ley" (Chilean group) that means to put the Hi Hat on the right side beside the ride and control it with a left foot pedal with a "remote cable" hardware???

Wouldn't that be to play "open handed" as well??...

I am new on this, so excuse me if I am wrong with the concept, and thanks for any suggestion!!

Yes, that is very much an open handed approach, one the current majority of crossed players could adopt immediately. You'd also be putting the ride cymbal close to the hats and that's always a good thing. Like everything else, there are tradeoffs. One tradeoff I see is fitting the hats around/between the floor toms.

Until you mentioned Mauricio Claveria, however, I had never heard of anyone actually playing like this. I'm going to check him out now. Thanks.

I assume you play open handed. What's your setup like, which hand on hats/ride, etc.?

[theindian]

If you are playing openhanded with the Left hand on the hats and right on the snare, which hand do lead rolls with? I have been playing around with openhand and it feels more natural for a backbeat. However if I lead a fill with the right hand (ie single stroke 16ths around the toms) it feel awkward coming back into the beat.

[evolving_machine]

I found the vintage zildjian ride to be best on my right side, it sounds great. I am using my newer K as a practice cymbal for my left handed ride. When I did this before, I used the hi-hat and a left crash. Now I have the K on my left. I can not seem to get the correct position for my left handed rides location. Any suggestions? Perhaps it is my reawakening of old muscle memories, but doing this I see a lot of progress.

[mrchattr]

I caught a little glimpse of the Dave Matthews BAND NY concert last night on tv. Amongst other things I noticed that Carter B plays in an open-hand style (I believe that is the correct term?- doesnt cross his arms)

For those of play this way- how do you feel you benefit from playing like this?

Looking at it from an non-drummer perspective it is quite odd that we play part of the kit with crossed hands- it seems to go against all the other things we learn around the other parts of the kit in relation to timing and moving around the kit etc.

I am looking at trying to broaden my drumming horizons as I am in kinda of a inspirational slump at the moment- and I wondered if this kind of playing helped to open things up?

I taught myself how to play this way. I still cross over a majority of the time, but I use it from time to time. Learning this style helps with independence for starters. It also makes accessing the toms easier, if you want to throw them in while riding the hi hat. It can open up some new creative ways to play, which is fantastic.

I am pretty sure crossed over playing became the norm because we need the hi hat on our weaker foot, but it makes sense to ride with our stronger hand (since, for a basic rock beat, etc, we play four notes with the riding hand to every one on the snare). If you learn to play open, your weaker hand will be stronger in all you do. I have worked hard to play crossed or open, and can play most beats that I play with either hand...and it really, really helps my independence, my even-ness between hands, and also, if I ever have an injury or something feels off, or a stick or equiptment breaks or something, I can use the other hand to lead while taking care of the problem.

[Deathmetalconga]

I found the vintage zildjian ride to be best on my right side, it sounds great. I am using my newer K as a practice cymbal for my left handed ride. When I did this before, I used the hi-hat and a left crash. Now I have the K on my left. I can not seem to get the correct position for my left handed rides location. Any suggestions? Perhaps it is my reawakening of old muscle memories, but doing this I see a lot of progress.

My instructor used to have his ride to the left of his hihat, but that is too far to the left for me. I have my ride directly above my hats; a straight line from the center of the seat, though the pull rod and through the ride cymbal mounting post. The hats and the ride are so interrelated that I like having them very close together.

I do not advise putting the ride on the right, on the opposite side of the set, unless you are trying for ambidexterity. I can't think of any open-handed pro drummers that only have their hats and ride on opposite sides of their set.

[drumgeek93]

I just saw this subject and joined the group, I am an open handed player with a right handed set-up, and I still have my ride on the right like a normal right handed set-up. I have always used the ampidextrous (however you speel that) approach and its worked out really well, in making both my hands a strong hand, and keeping every side in the same field. Is this something thats going to hold me back as a player? Is it something I should get out of the habit of?

[mrchattr]

I just saw this subject and joined the group, I am an open handed player with a right handed set-up, and I still have my ride on the right like a normal right handed set-up. I have always used the ampidextrous (however you speel that) approach and its worked out really well, in making both my hands a strong hand, and keeping every side in the same field. Is this something thats going to hold me back as a player? Is it something I should get out of the habit of?

Heck no! Even when I play open handed, I keep my ride on the right. Nothing wrong with that at all, as long as you are able to play patterns evenly with both hands.

[drumgeek93]

Well thats a relief to know, I had always looked at the pro's and see that they always have it on the side of their hi hat. Well thanks for the info!
~Justin Wood

[Deathmetalconga]

Well thats a relief to know, I had always looked at the pro's and see that they always have it on the side of their hi hat. Well thanks for the info!
~Justin Wood

There is a reason why the pros who play open tend to put their ride on the left, near the hats. There are advantages to having the same hand play hats and ride, since ride and hat patterns are usually identical figures, just played on different cymbals. Heck, even crossed drummers dedicate one hand to hats and ride. Having to switch like between hands for hats and ride presents additional obstacles and challenges. If you have the time and effort to overcome them, you will acquire ambidextrous skills, which will make you a better player.

As for me and most other people, however, the advantages of having the same hand play hats and ride are too great, whether you play open or crossed. Put your ride cymbal near your hats and play them both with the left hand and you will see what I mean.

[dr.funkenstien]

I play open handed myself and it totaly makes sense to me. For starters I'm a lefty and I always learned on a normal right handed kit. Technically My legs are right handed (footed) and my upper body is left handed. The only thing I do to accomodate being a lefty is move my ride to the left side ( like carter beauford). I feel it gives me a way more comfortable feel especially in doing hi-hat work. Check out some of my videos on my myspace page to see.
www.myspace.com/brendancolamecodrums

Brendan Colameco

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

There is a reason why the pros who play open tend to put their ride on the left, near the hats. There are advantages to having the same hand play hats and ride, since ride and hat patterns are usually identical figures, just played on different cymbals. Heck, even crossed drummers dedicate one hand to hats and ride. Having to switch like between hands for hats and ride presents additional obstacles and challenges. If you have the time and effort to overcome them, you will acquire ambidextrous skills, which will make you a better player.

As for me and most other people, however, the advantages of having the same hand play hats and ride are too great, whether you play open or crossed. Put your ride cymbal near your hats and play them both with the left hand and you will see what I mean.

If someone has been playing for a while, and already has RH ride patterns down, why not keep the ride where it is, and keep the patterns you worked hard to learn? When I play jazz I usually bring two rides to the gig. Mostly, I will play them both with the right hand, but recently, I started playing the left ride with the left. Just adds more possibilities. I will never rob myself of the possibility of playing right hand ride.
Casper

[Deathmetalconga]

If someone has been playing for a while, and already has RH ride patterns down, why not keep the ride where it is, and keep the patterns you worked hard to learn? When I play jazz I usually bring two rides to the gig. Mostly, I will play them both with the right hand, but recently, I started playing the left ride with the left. Just adds more possibilities. I will never rob myself of the possibility of playing right hand ride.
Casper

You raise a good point. If someone has already learned to play right hand ride/hats, they should probably keep open the ability to play right hand ride.

I was taught from the beginning to play left hand hats and ride. My first instructor played like that and insisted I do as well. I know no other way to play and have never even tried playing right hand hats/ride, so it wouldn't benefit me, or people who have been playing very long. I'd have to re-learn a lot of stuff. But if you're adding in left hand hats to your playing, why not keep the right-hand capabilities? Makes sense to keep them.

[Deltadrummer]

What do you do when you play an eighth note ride on your floor tom? Even a person who plays left hand lead would need to have the patterns learned for right hand lead in some instances, no?

[Deathmetalconga]

What do you do when you play an eighth note ride on your floor tom? Even a person who plays left hand lead would need to have the patterns learned for right hand lead in some instances, no?

To do that, I usually cross my hands, although I could learn to play a ride pattern with my right hand.

I am much more inclined to play a ride pattern with my 8-inch tom than my floor tom. Ever play a ride pattern on a high tom? It creates a real propulsive feeling.

[TheGroceryman]

speaking of open handed playing....

i counsel at dayjams, a rock music day camp and out of the 8 or so drummers, there are 2 that were absolute beginners. One of the drum teachers told me to teach them the basic rock beat. so i told them to start playing eighth notes on the hi hat. guess which hand they played them with....both of them were naturally playing the eighth notes with their left hand. i asked if they were righty or lefty and both were righty. they were kinda young so i didnt bother asking why they chose the left hand.

so yea...open handed playing is the natural way to go about playing drums.

jeez i wish i started out like that.

[jameswadewilson]

I wish that I'd started out that way too, but I'm getting more and more comfortable with the left hand on the hats and right hand on the the ride cymbal.


speaking of open handed playing....

i counsel at dayjams, a rock music day camp and out of the 8 or so drummers, there are 2 that were absolute beginners. One of the drum teachers told me to teach them the basic rock beat. so i told them to start playing eighth notes on the hi hat. guess which hand they played them with....both of them were naturally playing the eighth notes with their left hand. i asked if they were righty or lefty and both were righty. they were kinda young so i didnt bother asking why they chose the left hand.

so yea...open handed playing is the natural way to go about playing drums.

jeez i wish i started out like that.

[BENANEB]

speaking of open handed playing....

i counsel at dayjams, a rock music day camp and out of the 8 or so drummers, there are 2 that were absolute beginners. One of the drum teachers told me to teach them the basic rock beat. so i told them to start playing eighth notes on the hi hat. guess which hand they played them with....both of them were naturally playing the eighth notes with their left hand. i asked if they were righty or lefty and both were righty. they were kinda young so i didnt bother asking why they chose the left hand.

so yea...open handed playing is the natural way to go about playing drums.

jeez i wish i started out like that.

well, that sounds logical because why on earth would you cross your hands if you didnt have to? most things people do are with open hands, so why change that with drumming? it would have been great to start that way.

[mrchattr]

speaking of open handed playing....

i counsel at dayjams, a rock music day camp and out of the 8 or so drummers, there are 2 that were absolute beginners. One of the drum teachers told me to teach them the basic rock beat. so i told them to start playing eighth notes on the hi hat. guess which hand they played them with....both of them were naturally playing the eighth notes with their left hand. i asked if they were righty or lefty and both were righty. they were kinda young so i didnt bother asking why they chose the left hand.

so yea...open handed playing is the natural way to go about playing drums.

jeez i wish i started out like that.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that open handed playing is the natural way to go about it (and again, this is coming from someone who plays both open and crossed). I think that it is natural to not even think of crossing your arms, of course...but I also think that if you asked the kids to play those 8th notes for 10 minutes straight (or longer, or shorter, I don't know, this is a hypothetical time), you would find that their weaker hand couldn't do it, but their dominant hand could...so in some regards, open handed is more natural. In others, crossed is more natural.

[Deathmetalconga]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that open handed playing is the natural way to go about it (and again, this is coming from someone who plays both open and crossed). I think that it is natural to not even think of crossing your arms, of course...but I also think that if you asked the kids to play those 8th notes for 10 minutes straight (or longer, or shorter, I don't know, this is a hypothetical time), you would find that their weaker hand couldn't do it, but their dominant hand could...so in some regards, open handed is more natural. In others, crossed is more natural.

I think the difference in strength between the dominant and non-dominant limbs for most people is minimal. The difference is more of coordination than strength (and I do like having my dominant right hand on the snare, the heart of the drum set). Much of what we do, we do with both hands equally, such as typing and driving.

The only consistent thing is that people never do anything crossed handed. No other musical instruments are played crossed and no one types, drives, eats, exercises, uses tools or does anything else with their arms crossed - except play hihats. Notice how even crossed players put their ride cymbals on the right, so they can open up and uncross.

[genericdrummingusername]

I think the difference in strength between the dominant and non-dominant limbs for most people is minimal. The difference is more of coordination than strength (and I do like having my dominant right hand on the snare, the heart of the drum set). Much of what we do, we do with both hands equally, such as typing and driving.

The only consistent thing is that people never do anything crossed handed. No other musical instruments are played crossed and no one types, drives, eats, exercises, uses tools or does anything else with their arms crossed - except play hihats. Notice how even crossed players put their ride cymbals on the right, so they can open up and uncross.

I think I'll go move my ride to the right...16ths and all...

[mrchattr]

I think the difference in strength between the dominant and non-dominant limbs for most people is minimal. The difference is more of coordination than strength (and I do like having my dominant right hand on the snare, the heart of the drum set). Much of what we do, we do with both hands equally, such as typing and driving.

The only consistent thing is that people never do anything crossed handed. No other musical instruments are played crossed and no one types, drives, eats, exercises, uses tools or does anything else with their arms crossed - except play hihats. Notice how even crossed players put their ride cymbals on the right, so they can open up and uncross.

Meh. It's a silly argument, and I don't want to keep going...but ask any person who doesn't condition themselves to strengthen both hands (drummers, boxers, etc) to throw a baseball with their dominant hand, then with their non-dominant hand. It's a major difference in speed and force (we used to do that with our baseball team, actually).

[SickRick]

I think the difference in strength between the dominant and non-dominant limbs for most people is minimal. The difference is more of coordination than strength (and I do like having my dominant right hand on the snare, the heart of the drum set). Much of what we do, we do with both hands equally, such as typing and driving.

The only consistent thing is that people never do anything crossed handed. No other musical instruments are played crossed and no one types, drives, eats, exercises, uses tools or does anything else with their arms crossed - except play hihats. Notice how even crossed players put their ride cymbals on the right, so they can open up and uncross.

I play both open and crossed and teach my students to play open and crossed. I think I need to say that before posting anything else.

Just that much about your post: When I play the HiHat crossed, I do not cross my arms. My right arm is above my right leg, my left arm ist above my left leg. Natural position - its just that the right stick points to the HiHat and the left to the snare. Sticks cross, but not arms. When I switch to open playing, I don't change the position of my arms at all. I just switch the direction to which my sticks point. So your argument about the "unnatural" way of playing doesn't really make sense to me...

Maybe it's a matter of setting up the drums in a way that allows you to play crossed without crossing the arms but only the sticks?

Allthough my students learn just as good open as they learn crossed, for myself crossed just feels better. It feels tight, right and good. When playing open, it feels loose which can be good at times but in general the crossed thing is more of my taste.

[Deathmetalconga]

I play both open and crossed and teach my students to play open and crossed. I think I need to say that before posting anything else.

Just that much about your post: When I play the HiHat crossed, I do not cross my arms. My right arm is above my right leg, my left arm ist above my left leg. Natural position - its just that the right stick points to the HiHat and the left to the snare. Sticks cross, but not arms. When I switch to open playing, I don't change the position of my arms at all. I just switch the direction to which my sticks point. So your argument about the "unnatural" way of playing doesn't really make sense to me...

Maybe it's a matter of setting up the drums in a way that allows you to play crossed without crossing the arms but only the sticks?

Allthough my students learn just as good open as they learn crossed, for myself crossed just feels better. It feels tight, right and good. When playing open, it feels loose which can be good at times but in general the crossed thing is more of my taste.

When I say "crossed," I mean playing something to the left of your body with your right arm (or vice-versa). Even if your arms don't cross, the general idea is that you are crossing over to play something, as opposed to playing it with the limb that is closest to it.

Yes, I see what you mean that playing open is more "loose" and I get that feeling sometimes. On the other hand, there is a certain tightness that comes with having your hats and ride a few inches from other each other. Switching between them is much easier.

I think it's good you teach your students both approaches, especially when they are starting out, and left them find their own way.

[Deathmetalconga]

Meh. It's a silly argument, and I don't want to keep going...but ask any person who doesn't condition themselves to strengthen both hands (drummers, boxers, etc) to throw a baseball with their dominant hand, then with their non-dominant hand. It's a major difference in speed and force (we used to do that with our baseball team, actually).

Yes, but is that difference in speed and force due to strength, or technique? The dominant hand may be a bit stronger, but it is capable of much more fine control than the non-dominant limb. Better control means less wasted energy.

[SickRick]

Yes, but is that difference in speed and force due to strength, or technique? The dominant hand may be a bit stronger, but it is capable of much more fine control than the non-dominant limb. Better control means less wasted energy.

Probably the difference is due to better coordination - your brain just simply can control the strong hand better than the other hand. Strangely, when I do weightlifting, my left arm is stronger than my right arm.

About the fine control: I do have more fine control in volume with my left hand due to years of playing ghost notes on the snare before switching to open handed practise. Actually my left hand has way more control.... but my right hand has way more speed and endurance - another reason why I like to use it as the hihat hand.

[The Groovekat]

Heck no! Even when I play open handed, I keep my ride on the right. Nothing wrong with that at all, as long as you are able to play patterns evenly with both hands.


I disagree. I've played fully open handed for 3 years now while still maintaining dexterity on the right. I feel I am now equally dexterous on both sides, however, I recently set up my kit with ride on right which required me to swap lead hands mid song and it just doesn't feel right. The ghost notes and time start to get sloppy cos you're brain's confused. Swapping IN BETWEEN SONGS is ok if you have the required ambidexterity, but if you chop n' change mid song you're just asking for a bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb up.

[jameswadewilson]

When I started playing open handed it was because I didn't want to cross and I wanted to be able to play the right side of the kit while riding on the hats with my left hand

I for one have absolutely no problem switching ride hands during a song or every measure or even every note if I want to. And I am a klutz! Lots of things confuse me, but not this - everyone's mileage may vary...





I disagree. I've played fully open handed for 3 years now while still maintaining dexterity on the right. I feel I am now equally dexterous on both sides, however, I recently set up my kit with ride on right which required me to swap .

[jwildman]

After I saw Carter playing like this I started to try to imitate it and it definatley felt weird for awhile. But now I play open handed sometimes and it feels really cool because it really makes your weak hand alot stronger and can move around the drum set easier. Like if your doing some fill and your on your toms to your right and you have to hit the hihats, you don't want to cross your arms so much to use your right hand to hit them and your left hand is closer so it's alot easier. Or if your playing a beat it's easier to hit a cymbal with your right arm and go right back into your groove. In short, it just makes it easier to move around your drum set, in my opinion.

[thelimpingtoad]

What happen if you do like "Mauricio Claveria" DW drummer from "La Ley" (Chilean group) that means to put the Hi Hat on the right side beside the ride and control it with a left foot pedal with a "remote cable" hardware???

Wouldn't that be to play "open handed" as well??...

I am new on this, so excuse me if I am wrong with the concept, and thanks for any suggestion!!

I have a right side remote hat that I use for my primary (actually its the only one) hat. I like having both the ride and hat on the same side. I agree with other posters that it a) makes sense to play both cymbals with the same hand, and b) having them close lets you play a lot of interesting grooves. I like playing some patterns that actually have slicing on the hat for accents and playing on the ride for the rest of the pattern.

Either through right side mounted hi-hat, or middle placement of hat (infront of snare) or by playing left hand cymbal patterns... I feel that the advantages to playing open handed... are so many but the biggest one is that its much easier to fill in my opinion. you can get both sticks to the toms easily and since you don't have to un-cross to do it, it seems quicker. Its also much easier to play left hand independant stuff on toms and snare... you never catch your sticks on each other from playing big full arm accents on the snare, and just all around it feels much less forced...

The down side to playing a right-side hi-hat open handed style is that 16th note patterns between hi-hat and snare are a little more difficult. I have to move my hands farther to get back to the snare.

One day when i have a house that i can really spread out in and buy a new drumset I'll definately put a traditional left-side hat and left-side ride on too so I can play open left patterns and 16th patterns on my hat a little easier...

[Fiery]

I disagree. I've played fully open handed for 3 years now .
It's just practice (or lack of it).
I play open handed with left hand lead on the hats and left crash/ride and right hand lead on the right crash/ride. I can play most beats leading with either hand and switching leads if I want to. Sometimes when I try to switch the lead on some new beat that I've learned, I do get confused, but it almost never takes more than a few tries to sort it out.
I find it very useful being able to do this when accomodating my kit setup to different stages, or when a piece of hardware malfunctions in the middle of a song.

[Deathmetalconga]

It's just practice (or lack of it).
I play open handed with left hand lead on the hats and left crash/ride and right hand lead on the right crash/ride. I can play most beats leading with either hand and switching leads if I want to. Sometimes when I try to switch the lead on some new beat that I've learned, I do get confused, but it almost never takes more than a few tries to sort it out.
I find it very useful being able to do this when accomodating my kit setup to different stages, or when a piece of hardware malfunctions in the middle of a song.

From what I have noticed, most pros who play open, play with the left hand hats and ride. Most non-pros I have noticed who play open play with the left hand hats and right hand ride.

I have seen very, very few people play right hand hats and ride, and no one every play right hand hats and left hand ride, although I suppose they are out there.

[mrchattr]

[quote=siphi_clone;604729]I disagree. I've played fully open handed for 3 years now while still quote]

Just 'cause you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. As I said, I do it, without confusing my brain. It's independence, which should be the goal of all drummers. Keep practicing independence, and you'll have no problem doing it.

[thelimpingtoad]

Just 'cause you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. As I said, I do it, without confusing my brain. It's independence, which should be the goal of all drummers. Keep practicing independence, and you'll have no problem doing it.

I agree... although i don't play left hand HH or Ride I can say that i could probably do it reasonably well just because i know if i wanted to keep 8ths on my left hand on the snare and play 2/4 or a groove on my right i could. That's just like how i could keep 8s on the right or left foot and play other parts for the other limbs. I think its probably just something that takes practice.
Try working 4-way independence exercises like gary chester's new breed and before long you'll find that you can phrase any pattern using any combination of instruments.
Also a good exercise may be to play poly-rhythms like 3 on left hand against 4 on the right. once you get that groove going for a while stop then switch it to 4 on the left hand against 3 on the right. Then once you have that going, stop again and then start switching it on every other bar. play 2 bars the first way (L=3 against R=4) then switch immediately to (R=3 against L=4) and back and forth.
I found that exercise to be very helpful with 4-way independence especially if you start putting your kick and hi-hat in playing different things under it.

[Fiery]

From what I have noticed, most pros who play open, play with the left hand hats and ride. Most non-pros I have noticed who play open play with the left hand hats and right hand ride.

I have seen very, very few people play right hand hats and ride, and no one every play right hand hats and left hand ride, although I suppose they are out there.
Depends on the genre somewhat. A few open-handed pro metal drummers that I know of play left hand hats, right hand ride (or have two rides, or ride right hand crashes). Examples are Gene Hoglan, Scott Travis, Mike Smith and Michael "Moose" Thomas.

Carter Beauford is somewhat an example of the third option - he always leads on the ride with his left, but he sometimes crosses over and leads with his right on the hi-hat.

[cnw60]

From what I have noticed, most pros who play open, play with the left hand hats and ride. Most non-pros I have noticed who play open play with the left hand hats and right hand ride.

I have seen very, very few people play right hand hats and ride, and no one every play right hand hats and left hand ride, although I suppose they are out there.

from what I recall seeing Lenny White in concert years ago, he played LH ride on his hats and RH ride on his ride cymbal. Same with Billy Cobham.

and FWIW - both of them also cross over sometimes and play the hats with their right hand, and they have ride-able cymbals on the left too - so it doesn't seem that either of them are 'purists' about it - they just play.

As far as other instruments - pianists frequently cross their hands to play certain passages, as occasionally do guitarists. It would be hard to play tympani, xylophone, marimba or vibes w/out doing crossovers - not to mention all the cool crossover stickings that you can use around the drum set. So while I also play open-handed, I think it limits you if you feel that it's wrong to ever cross your hands/sticks. playing open or crossed is just another tool in your box - the end result is all that really matters.

[JimmyK]

Hey in response to this thread I'm going to record an ambidextrous/openhanded solo by the end of the week...I'll just throw a bunch of different ideas in there just to show much much fun you can have playing open! If anyone else wants to do this i think it could be wicked sweet

Jimmy

[Deltadrummer]

I noticed that Dennis Wilson played open handed later on in his career.

[Deathmetalconga]

from what I recall seeing Lenny White in concert years ago, he played LH ride on his hats and RH ride on his ride cymbal. Same with Billy Cobham.

and FWIW - both of them also cross over sometimes and play the hats with their right hand, and they have ride-able cymbals on the left too - so it doesn't seem that either of them are 'purists' about it - they just play.

As far as other instruments - pianists frequently cross their hands to play certain passages, as occasionally do guitarists. It would be hard to play tympani, xylophone, marimba or vibes w/out doing crossovers - not to mention all the cool crossover stickings that you can use around the drum set. So while I also play open-handed, I think it limits you if you feel that it's wrong to ever cross your hands/sticks. playing open or crossed is just another tool in your box - the end result is all that really matters.

Like other musicians, I sometimes play crossed, but not often. As you point out, there are certain figures that cannot be played any other way. But these are the exceptions to the rule. No other instruments are normally played with hands crossed, except for drums.

Yes, the end result is what really matters. In fact, the best drummers in the world manage to do quite well with the inherent awkwardness of crossing the arms to play. The only greater advantage I see to playing open and assigning one hand to the hats and ride is that it simplifies playing and is a shortcut to the same end.

[JoeLackey]

As I was watching the effortless playing of Lenny White, Billy Cobham, Carter Beauford, Travis Orbin, and Claus Hessler, the thought of giving open handed playing a shot entered my mind. I've been at it for a little while now, but since I'm right handed it just doesn't feel 100% natural. The mental aspect of it is pretty tough at first. Any grooves that you play now have to be lead by the non-dominant hand, which is tricky. It's definitely a test of your skills to approach the kit like this. For now, I think it'll stick to normal matched grip or traditional. I'll occasionally practice this the idea of open handed playing.. It's one more item in your bag of tricks and techniques.

[OnThisDaysDrummer]

I have an interesting story about open handed playing and my drumming.

My right hand sucks at writing. I've taken classes for it, and it's still horrible. A few years ago I started practicing to write with my left hand, and in just one month, I could write perfect with my left hand, was a miserable failure with my right hand.

I talked this over with my mother at dinner, and she told me that as a baby I was left handed, but she forced me to use my right hand so I would be more functional.

After practicing the technique, I could things playing open handed that I could never do playing right handed. So now when I'm playing I'll switch back and fourth throughout the song. It draws a lot of attention. Especially when you play hi-hats with your left hand, and snare with your right. And then play your ride with your right hand, and snare with your left.

When I do two hour gigs, I'll play the first hour right handed, and then when the band takes a break, I'll switch the kit around and play the second hour left handed.

I plan to share video footage of this very soon.

[Drumfy]

The Norwegian drummer Audun Kleive always plays open. He's a lefty.

http://youtu.be/-SX1sC-fPR8

Couldn't find a clip where he uses the hi hat too much though : )

[Mad About Drums]

Like other musicians, I sometimes play crossed, but not often....

Yes, the end result is what really matters. In fact, the best drummers in the world manage to do quite well with the inherent awkwardness of crossing the arms to play. The only greater advantage I see to playing open and assigning one hand to the hats and ride is that it simplifies playing and is a shortcut to the same end.

I play 50% of my patterns open handed (I have 2 hi-hats), and I agree with DMC comments, I see it as a great shortcut to play on the kit as well as having the drumset "opened up" to facilitate patterns in a variety of applications within a given piece of music. :-)

[Deathmetalconga]

I have an interesting story about open handed playing and my drumming.

My right hand sucks at writing. I've taken classes for it, and it's still horrible. A few years ago I started practicing to write with my left hand, and in just one month, I could write perfect with my left hand, was a miserable failure with my right hand.

I talked this over with my mother at dinner, and she told me that as a baby I was left handed, but she forced me to use my right hand so I would be more functional.

After practicing the technique, I could things playing open handed that I could never do playing right handed. So now when I'm playing I'll switch back and fourth throughout the song. It draws a lot of attention. Especially when you play hi-hats with your left hand, and snare with your right. And then play your ride with your right hand, and snare with your left.

When I do two hour gigs, I'll play the first hour right handed, and then when the band takes a break, I'll switch the kit around and play the second hour left handed.

I plan to share video footage of this very soon.

Sounds good!

How often do you play ride with the left-hand? That is the last big taboo on drumset playing. Even crossed players will play left hand hats and right hand snare, like when they are playing two-handed patterns on the hats and snare. But playing ride with the left hand is too mindblowing for many players, and they switch to right hand ride and left hand hats.

[marko138]

I'll go open hand every so often. Mostly for show.

[Deathmetalconga]

I'll go open hand every so often. Mostly for show.

The only time anyone has remarked on my open handed playing was at a local Guitar Center Drum Off (which I won). Other drummers were impressed. Other than that, no other musician or audience member has ever even noticed. When I point out to guitarists that I play open, they don't quite understand. Then I tell them that if they played like most drummers, they'd be crossing their hands to play guitar. Then the light goes off in their head and they ask, "Yeah, I noticed, all drummers cross their hands when they play those top hat cymbals - why?" To which I reply, "Because everyone else does."