singles vs rudiments

[robertondrums]

OK so I really dont get this. Why is it that I can do complex rudiments with my feet and multi-pedal orchestration, and I can do practically anything with my feet that my hands can do, i.e, the type of stuff you see on thomas langs creative coordination dvd. Yet, I cant seem to get past 136 bpm in singles on my double pedal. I dont understand this. Its so frustrating. I figure that I use different muscles for singles than I do for rudiments but I just can't seem to improve my singles speed. Any suggestions on how to improve my speed?

Any suggestions would be really helpful.
Thanks
Robertondrums

[larryace]

My guess is because the single stroke roll reveals any unbalance/weakness in your weaker side. Or if you are already perfectly balanced right to left, then right now this is your top speed, all that your muscles are capable of doing. Just keep at it. Time and patience and work, and you should push past the barrier.

[Boomka]

Because for various reasons, single stroke rolls are actually one of the most difficult rudiments to execute fast and cleanly, especially with the feet. Larry is right, it's in part due to the necessity of having your weak side up to snuff with your dominant side. With the help of a little rebound and/or getting strokes using different muscle groups (wrist/forearm v. fingers in the case of a double-stroke) we can often make our way through many rudiments with more ease than singles, which in most cases require using the same group of muscles repeatedly in short succession.

[Toza]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPFEP_stPGI

[King Monumar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPFEP_stPGI

I'm on week 3 of this "training regiment", though at a slower BPM (155 instead of 180). Also, I'm having to cut down to one minute exercises instead of two due to some pain in my foot from practicing this so much!

Bottom line: I'm looking to develop clean, powerful single strokes using this method, yet at the same time need to keep within my body's limits. True, I need to push those limits to develop muscle strength, but at the same time not overexert myself. I took three days off to let my foot heal and it's been a NIGHTMARE not being able to practice.

[donv]

I'm on week 3 of this "training regiment", though at a slower BPM (155 instead of 180). Also, I'm having to cut down to one minute exercises instead of two due to some pain in my foot from practicing this so much!

Bottom line: I'm looking to develop clean, powerful single strokes using this method, yet at the same time need to keep within my body's limits. True, I need to push those limits to develop muscle strength, but at the same time not overexert myself. I took three days off to let my foot heal and it's been a NIGHTMARE not being able to practice.

This is a cool exercise but I don't think you should skip the 3, 5s, 7s, etc.

[robertondrums]

All these coments are awsume people. Thanks. I really like the video on youtube. I will start practising this imedietly. I suppose, like anything, it just takes time and practise and theres no quick way around it. I will just take my time and things will progress slowly but shorly. Thanks a lot.

Robertondrums

[jererocker]

The trick to it is to do 16 bass pedal notes for 4 beats then the other foot the same so u can balance ur bass pedal speed with both feet.

[King Monumar]

This is a cool exercise but I don't think you should skip the 3, 5s, 7s, etc.

Maybe not, but for practice's sake Mr. Roddy may have organized it that way so it would fit within a half hour workout period without having to stop and reset the metronome.

Switching from 3s, 5s, then to 7s would be a hell of a workout though. I'll have to give it a shot sometime!

[robertondrums]

The really weird thing is tho is that my right leg (which is my stronger leg cos im right handed) finds it harder to do 16th notes than my left leg. I think this is because my left leg is used to playing everything my right hand does. i.e if I was to play an 8 feel on the ride my left leg would do the same on the Hi-Hat playing the eighth notes. So my left leg is used to the constant up and down motion but my right isnt. My right is used to short bursts of playing rather than continueous. Get what im saying?

Robertondrums

[larryace]

Robert do you practice heel down playing? It will improve your heel up playing.

[robertondrums]

Robert do you practice heel down playing? It will improve your heel up playing. To be honest with you I was taught to play mainly heels up and using such techniques as heel toe (constant release) to do fast singles and doubles and so far I've been able to do everything I've wanted using those techniqes. I never really practised heel down. However, more recently I have started to play everything I know heel down from rudiments to singles (mainly since I got a double pedal). I hear you use the same muscles for heel down as you do for heel up. The burn is quite tough to play through but I will stick at it. I currently do about 10 mins a day heel down.

Thanks a lot for the info. I may just have to push myself that bit more heels down.
Robertondrums

[MSPaintClock]

It'll be a long time before you master the basics, single stroke rolls are the basics. Keep practicing.

[denisri]

Hi
I have spent a lot of time working singles....I found .it has huge returns in your playing. I also start with my week side(left in my case)....16ths,32nds,and 64ths.....One and multiple drums. Denis

[NewChops]

I've got a couple videos on my website showing good exercises that also work as drum fills that utilize both singles and doubles. Check it out and see if you find anything that might help or just be interesting.

www.newchops.com

[robertondrums]

It'll be a long time before you master the basics, single stroke rolls are the basics. Keep practicing. Ye your right its about practise and sticking at it. Like I say complex rudiments present no problem to me but them singles do. Hahahaha. I'll just stick at it.

Thanks for the comment
Robertondrums

[robertondrums]

Hi
I have spent a lot of time working singles....I found .it has huge returns in your playing. I also start with my week side(left in my case)....16ths,32nds,and 64ths.....One and multiple drums. Denis This is somthing I have to work on is starting with my left foot. So dambed annoying tho.

Cheers dude.
Robertondrums

[donv]

The really weird thing is tho is that my right leg (which is my stronger leg cos im right handed) finds it harder to do 16th notes than my left leg. I think this is because my left leg is used to playing everything my right hand does. i.e if I was to play an 8 feel on the ride my left leg would do the same on the Hi-Hat playing the eighth notes. So my left leg is used to the constant up and down motion but my right isnt. My right is used to short bursts of playing rather than continueous. Get what im saying?

Robertondrums

Actually, your left foot being faster then your right is the natural order of things. What the natural order of things doesn't give your left foot is the endurance or control you have with your right foot. Also, the information you got on heel up and heel down using the same muscles is wrong.

Almost 20 years ago almost everything that could go wrong did and I ended up with artificial hips among other things. I was forced to change almost everything about my drumming from the waist down. Fortunately I had a lot of sympathetic help to start over with appropriate technique--there's that word again--for my condition. In many ways, it's the best thing that ever happened.

Here's a couple of practice exercises that I found very useful. Raise your beaters as far as you can get them. It doesn't do much for the tuning of the bass drum or for the head itself, but it does force you feet to control the beater. When you begin practicing, tighten the springs up. At various intervals that you decide is best for you, loosen the tension of the springs so that your last ten minutes or so of your pedal practice routine is adjusted to your normal spring tension. If as you develop your skills you feel that you prefer a tighter spring tension that is fine. Play with the pedal adjustments and get to know how they can help and hurt your skills. Also, practice lifting your foot off the footboard so your foot is always ahead of the footboard up or return motion. This puts your foot into a position to play the bass drum anytime it's not already being played. I am forced to play almost exclusively heels down so with a heel up technique, I'm really not sure how to translate this into useful information.

Finally and most importantly, be patient. It's difficult, but I guarantee you that a year from now, a year will have come and gone regardless of your patience. What you have to show for all your work a year from now is completely, absolutely and totally your choice and decision. There are no shortcuts.

If it was you that I read about practicing 10 minutes a day, well, that's not nearly enough. Shoot for an hour, settle for half if you have to. If you need to practice at a third the speed of a 10 minute workout you're still miles ahead of that 10 minute workout. You also don't need the pedal or bass drum to develop muscle control. As long as you're not annoying anybody, you can practice with your feet darn near anywhere, anytime. You only need the pedals for pedal control. Most of all though, stay relaxed and have fun overcoming the limitations of an undeveloped skill.

I can only tell you what I did, and this is it.
Of course you use a metronome right?

[matias33uy]

for me are best the rudiments are very goods exercices
and one good book is the "symcopation"

[donv]

Switching from 3s, 5s, then to 7s would be a hell of a workout though. I'll have to give it a shot sometime!

The practicallity of this is the same as 5, 7, 9, 11, etc. stroke rolls.