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JENGLISH817
05-27-2009, 09:29 PM
How old does a drum/drum set have to be in order to be considered "vintage"?

dairyairman
05-27-2009, 10:01 PM
i don't think there's a cut and dry definition for that. i've heard that for something to be called "antique" it should be at least 25 years old.

georgeman
05-27-2009, 10:32 PM
when shopping on ebay vintage normally means its old and useless or its old and really really banged up and almost isn't playable...I would rather have a antique drum set than a vintage.

or try http://www.google.com for some help

-georgeman

JENGLISH817
05-27-2009, 10:33 PM
That makes sense. I've just always wondered when drums (or anything for that manner) goes from the "used" category to the "vintage/antique" catagory. Vintage is definitely a word that can used to charge more money.

DrewTheShoe
05-27-2009, 10:33 PM
when shopping on ebay vintage normally means its old and useless or its old and really really banged up and almost isn't playable...I would rather have a antique drum set than a vintage.

or try http://www.google.com for some help

-georgeman

There is so much wrong with that initial statement that I won't even bother.

JENGLISH817
05-27-2009, 11:01 PM
For the record, my second post was in response to Dairyairman.

Although Georgeman has a point about many sellers on ebay, I was kinda refering to reputable dealers

dairyairman
05-27-2009, 11:16 PM
i think the term "vintage" also implies an element of quality and desirability. for example, it wouldn't make much sense to pass off an old bottle of thunderbird wine as "vintage" because that stuff is awful no matter how old it is.

JENGLISH817
05-27-2009, 11:19 PM
Haha, I've never had this Thunderbird wine you speak of, but I'll be sure to stay away from it...especially the "vintage" haha

dairyairman
05-27-2009, 11:31 PM
check the alleys downtown behind the dumpsters. you'll find some empty thunderbird bottles there.

boomstick
05-27-2009, 11:56 PM
I take it to mean 70s era and earlier. While 80s era gear may be chronologically "vintage," somehow it does have the vintage "aura" of earlier gear. Maybe it's just me.

PQleyR
05-28-2009, 12:25 AM
Mine does, it was forgotten about in someone's garage for about 15 years, so it's got a real old-fashioned rusty scratched charm! Still, it was cheap.

drumhead61
05-28-2009, 01:12 AM
i think the term "vintage" also implies an element of quality and desirability. for example, it wouldn't make much sense to pass off an old bottle of thunderbird wine as "vintage" because that stuff is awful no matter how old it is.

OMG thunderbird have not heard tell of that JUNK in a LONNNG TIME; rock gut to say the least worst of all wines to be sure, nothing vintage about that. When I see the term vintage used it is usually attached to a nice "antique" kit and it is not in sad shape as was alluded to by another poster it is in nice shape and worth the having if one is willing to give up the money for it. As for when something becomes vintage or antique I looked to wikpedia:

The definition of antique varies from source to source, product to product, and year to year. However, some time-tested definitions of antique deserve consideration, such as the following:


"An item which is at least 50 to 100 years old and is collected or desirable due to rarity, condition, utility, or some other unique feature. Motor vehicles, power tools and other items subject to vigorous use in contrast, may be considered antiques in the U.S. if older than 25 years, and some electronic gadgets of more recent vintage may be considered antiques."[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
"Any piece of furniture or decorative object or the like produced in a former period and valuable because of its beauty or rarity."[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

Its a broad range and one that each needs to consider when looking at something that may be "vintage"...it is truly a buyer beware thing if we are looking at drums on the interent.

DrewTheShoe
05-28-2009, 01:53 AM
Vintage simply refers to equipment that was made back in the 80's or 70's, as the term really is quite subjective. Most vintage equipment you'll see is from the 70's or earlier.

Vintage equipment (depending on the seller) can be in perfect condition, contrary to what georgeman states. It is also very usable. Both my New Beats and my Acrolite were both made back in the seventies, and they have more kick in them than a helluva lot of other products on the market these days.

I have never heard of "antique" kits before, but I would think that they would be more collector's items.

caddywumpus
05-28-2009, 02:44 AM
The word "vintage" ACTUALLY means, "of a certain time period". A bottle of wine could be of a 2005 vintage, for example.

When drum collectors refer to "vintage drums", they are typically referring to drums from the mid 70s or before, with particular attention paid to the 60s and before.

There is no cut off line of, say, 25 years old or so, that puts something into the category of "vintage". As much sense as that would make, it's not what drum collectors refer to, and it totally would disregard the definition of the word.

harryconway
05-28-2009, 06:57 AM
Indeed....stay away from the Thunderbird, Night Train (Guns 'N' Roses) is the way to rolllllll down the track. As far as "vintage".........Yes, the term "vintage" gets throws around...and my belief, mis-used, a lot. One definition of vintage is simply "not of the current era". Or even "belonging to" the current decade. Clothing works the same way, anything from another "era" can be vintage. In terms of wine, where I believe the word originated, "vintage" simple means 75%, 85%, or 95% of the wine in a dated bottle must be from that year. Depends on who's scale you're using, and in what country you're in. Hence, you could be drinking a vintage wine from 2007, 1997 or 1957. Some hard-core car snobs might hold fast the term "vintage car" to mean the years between 1919 and 1930, and no other years. But there are plenty of car shows out there every night and/or weekend that hark vintage cars from the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's.

Vipercussionist
05-28-2009, 08:07 PM
when shopping on ebay vintage normally means its old and useless or its old and really really banged up and almost isn't playable...I would rather have a antique drum set than a vintage.

or try http://www.google.com for some help

-georgeman

HUH???? What'd you say???

No. Just no. You must not be a Vintage guy, and that's cool, but your assessment if false. There's PLENTY of vintage stuff that's in great shape, and commanding top dollar. However if your not INTO Vintage gear, you wouldn't see the value in most of it. Lots of it merely needs to be CLEANED and POLISHED to become a fine looking piece again. Dirt makes it LOOK like shite, but that doesn't mean it IS shite.

georgeman
05-28-2009, 10:41 PM
The word "vintage" ACTUALLY means, "of a certain time period". A bottle of wine could be of a 2005 vintage, for example.

When drum collectors refer to "vintage drums", they are typically referring to drums from the mid 70s or before, with particular attention paid to the 60s and before.

There is no cut off line of, say, 25 years old or so, that puts something into the category of "vintage". As much sense as that would make, it's not what drum collectors refer to, and it totally would disregard the definition of the word.

this one gets my vote


HUH???? What'd you say???

No. Just no. You must not be a Vintage guy, and that's cool, but your assessment if false. There's PLENTY of vintage stuff that's in great shape, and commanding top dollar. However if your not INTO Vintage gear, you wouldn't see the value in most of it. Lots of it merely needs to be CLEANED and POLISHED to become a fine looking piece again. Dirt makes it LOOK like shite, but that doesn't mean it IS shite.

I've just had some really bad experiences buying so called "vintage" brass instruments. i've bought over ten "vintage" instruments and by the time they would have been repaired they would have been completely new. so through my experences thats what it means to me...

sorry guys for the bad deffination

george

Bonz0
05-28-2009, 11:29 PM
Vintage can also refer to an era i mean if u see the sabian AA or AAX for example they have that " Vintage sound " it means that they have the touch of the 70s or below but theyre made in the present, there are people that like that sound better than the modern sound but they cant get anything from that era because of course theyre not existing anymore so thats why a lot of instruments are made with that "Vintage" sound.

caddywumpus
05-29-2009, 01:39 AM
Well, we could take the word "vintage" and just give ANY meaning we want to it, as long as it catches on. If everyone else does it, I guess it's okay, right? What the heck, let's attribute the term vintage to mean any cymbal that has some patina on it. After all, that's the "vintage" look for cymbals. Oh, and any marine pearl or sparkle finishes on kits should be referred to as "vintage" from now on. Let's REALLY mess up what the general consensus of the word vintage is.

Or, we could change the direction of this thread. Let's start listing all of the incorrect uses of the word "vintage" in regards to drum equipment. I'll start:

1) a piece of gear that is at least XX years old.

makinao
05-29-2009, 02:23 AM
When in doubt, ask my Apple dictionary:

vintage |ˈvintij|
noun
the year or place in which wine, esp. wine of high quality, was produced.
a wine of high quality made from the crop of a single identified district in a good year.
poetic/literary wine.
the harvesting of grapes for winemaking.
the grapes or wine produced in a particular season.
the time that something of quality was produced : rifles of various sizes and vintages.
adjective
of, relating to, or denoting wine of high quality : vintage claret.
denoting something of high quality, esp. something from the past or characteristic of the best period of a person's work : a vintage Sherlock Holmes adventure.

antique |anˈtēk|
noun
a collectible object such as a piece of furniture or work of art that has a high value because of its considerable age : Pauline loves collecting antiques | [as adj. ] an antique dealer.
adjective
1 (of a collectible object) having a high value because of considerable age : an antique clock.
(of a method of finishing a wooden surface) intended to resemble the appearance of antique furniture : bookshelves with an antique finish.
2 belonging to ancient times : statues of antique gods.
old-fashioned or outdated : trade unions defending antique work practices.
often humorous showing signs of great age or wear : an antique divorcee in reduced circumstances.

harryconway
05-29-2009, 03:47 AM
Vintage is definitely a word that can used to charge more money .
Charge more money, and of course the "snob appeal", the self feeding of one's ego.

caddywumpus
05-29-2009, 07:49 PM
Charge more money, and of course the "snob appeal", the self feeding of one's ego.

I've seen this used MANY times in Portland. There are people who play vintage kits because of the hip factor, and you can see the hot air start to inflate their heads as they talk about it...

According to makinao's Apple dictionary, desirable drum kits from the 50s, 60s, and early 70s fall under the categories of both "vintage" AND "antique". Sweet!

I think that these two definitions under "vintage" are what vintage drum guys are referring to;
• the time that something of quality was produced
• denoting something of high quality, esp. something from the past or characteristic of the best period of a person's work

...this is why that 80s Tama or Pearl kit will never be considered "vintage".

DrumEatDrum
05-30-2009, 04:39 AM
I agree vintage is not just a matter of years, it also implied a level of collecatable.

20 years ago, "vintage" drums were 20+ year old kits; i.e. 60's and earlier.

These days, "vintage" still means 60's and before, with maybe some 70's era kits. The term doesn't apply to just any old 20+ year old kit, even though 20 years have passed.

The definition hasn't much changed much over the years because it's only certain era kits that remain collectible.

bobdadruma
05-31-2009, 04:17 AM
If we were talking cars, Twenty years old makes it a Classic and twenty-five years old makes it an antique. After that some folks use the term vintage. I guess that we can apply these standards to drums if no one objects. We could set a legal DW precedence! We could even put these defined terms into the forum posting rules. That would keep the mods busy! This works for me because my kit is over thirty years old! I could then legally say that I have a vintage Gretsch! LOL!

makinao
05-31-2009, 12:06 PM
Given the definition of "vintage" coming from a particularly good era or period, can anyone give a specific example of an instrument? For example, was there a period of particularly noteworthy A.Zildjian's? Or Ludwig Black Beauty's? Or Slingerland Radio Kings? Or Paiste 2002's? Or Yamaha Recording Customs? Or Tama Artstars? Etc...........

caddywumpus
05-31-2009, 12:22 PM
Given the definition of "vintage" coming from a particularly good era or period, can anyone give a specific example of an instrument? For example, was there a period of particularly noteworthy A.Zildjian's? Or Ludwig Black Beauty's? Or Slingerland Radio Kings? Or Paiste 2002's? Or Yamaha Recording Customs? Or Tama Artstars? Etc...........

50's A Zildjians were great! '60 through '76 Ludwigs were incredible. Pre-1956 Gretsch round badge kits were awesome...

Although, the past had more of a spread of inconsistency than we have today. There are some real clunkers out there, as far as old cymbals and drums go. The Ludwigs from '64 until about '67 are notorious for this (the Beatles craze upped Ludwig's production, and the quality was all over the map as a result). Just because a piece of drum gear is "vintage" doesn't mean it's automatically a good instrument or representative of the range of sounds available from other like-year models. Some of the most collectible pieces of drum history can be pieces of garbage, sound-wise (not every old K is a grail, pre-1920 Zildjians are often called "sewer lids", etc...).

bobdadruma
05-31-2009, 04:44 PM
Given the definition of "vintage" coming from a particularly good era or period, can anyone give a specific example of an instrument? For example, was there a period of particularly noteworthy A.Zildjian's? Or Ludwig Black Beauty's? Or Slingerland Radio Kings? Or Paiste 2002's? Or Yamaha Recording Customs? Or Tama Artstars? Etc........... When looking for Vintage drums and cymbals it is a good idea to buy something that represents an era that you are interested in. Example; The first concert that you ever saw was The Stones in 1969 and you want a drum kit that Charlie would have played back then. Now the old kit that you bought means something to you. Don't just buy an old drum kit or cymbal because you can. I have known several drummers that have antique cymbals. When I sample them, I wonder why they own them. I never would have bought those pies for the sound. Most of the older drum kits had issues with things like hardware. They didn't have beefed up stands and tom mounts back then. I really can't say that drums were better back then! I have made many modifications to my mid seventies Gretsch kit.

DrumEatDrum
06-01-2009, 04:15 AM
Given the definition of "vintage" coming from a particularly good era or period, can anyone give a specific example of an instrument? For example, was there a period of particularly noteworthy A.Zildjian's? Or Ludwig Black Beauty's? Or Slingerland Radio Kings? Or Paiste 2002's? Or Yamaha Recording Customs? Or Tama Artstars? Etc...........

For Zildjian, Ludwig and Slingerland, just about anything pre-1970 is going to be vintage.

I can't ever imagine calling a Yamaha Recording Custom "vintage" because they still make them today, with very few differences from when they were introduced. There is nothing particular "collectible" about a certain era Yamaha (other than it's a good drum set).

Similar story for a Tama Artstar, although that line has undergone many changes over the years. There are so many Tama kits in existence, not too many people view any particular line or time period "collectible" unless someone is trying to specifically recreate a particular set up (i.e. Billy Cobham's 1980 kit for instance)

Jeremy Bender
06-01-2009, 08:53 AM
Wow so many different responses to the OP question, it's a wonder drummers can agree on the color of an orange.