Going from a 3pc to a 6pc - need help with fills

[ANIMALBEATS]

Hello


Ive recently gone from a 3 piece to a 6 piece, and am finding doing fills somewhat difficult with the added number of toms, has anyone else any expreience of this....?

[Drifter in the Dark]

I'm the type of drummer who has to have a purpose for everything in my set-up, which is why I've played a 4-piece for the past several years. I 've noticed than when I have more drums in front of me, I tend to want to use them all (sometimes all at once, which is not good!). I have to remind myself that the purpose of having more drums is to have more sounds and melodic possibilities, not to show off with fancy fills. Steve Gadd has played a 6 piece (bass, snare, 2 racks, 2 floors) for many years, and he's very tasteful in the way he plays his toms. He never, ever overuses them. So, my advice would be to listen to Mr. Gadd and other pros to see how they handle larger kits, and keep it in the pocket as much as you can. A well-placed fill on the snare drum is usually the best solution, in my experience anyway!

[ANIMALBEATS]

i stand corrected its s 7pc = snare. 3 rack. 2 floor. bass

[zambizzi]

It'll just take some practice time. Try working through singles and experimenting w/ patterns...eventually your muscle memory will adjust to where everything new is at.

I tried the same setup and fell back to a 4pc. I was excited to have all of those toms until it just struck me as pointless to tune and haul all of that extra stuff around for so little gain. Then again, I'm not doing giant, rolling tom fills.

Drifter has it right; make sure everything has a purpose.

[The Parasprinter]

Standard problem I would think, you've got to re-train all your old muscle memory of where each old drum is going to be, plus learning the new ones. Maybe you could try adding 1 tom at a time into your practice routine so you're only making small adjustments? Just a thought.

[Toad]

Keep in mind I'm an old timer (and I play older stuff) so I'm not up on what you guys play nowadays but...

I play a double bass kit in the classic configuration - 2 mounted toms and 2 floor toms.

What I do is basically play it like it was a 4-piece (one mounted tom and one floor tom)... which means my 2nd and 3rd toms are my "main" toms. Once I got this through my head I was on my way and the confusion ended.

My 2nd tom is the one that gets used the most, it's the one that goes with a lot of the standard simple "snare and tom" things one would do. The snare and the 2nd tom have the most conversations if you know what I mean.

The toms are all tuned accordingly... the 2nd and 3rd toms are tuned as if the kit was a 4-piece, then of course my smallest tom is tuned higher than the 2nd one and the 4th tom is tuned lower than the 3rd one (duh).

I would suggest play it like you have one mounted tom and one floor tom (4-piece) for a good while, get your mind right on that then start to ease other things into it.

Disclaimer, lol: Again, I'm old-fashioned and I'm NOT the voice of experience so take this as you wish. :-)

I agree in totality with the previous posts.

[ANIMALBEATS]

ive found im drumming with my eyes closed so as not to confuse my poor head on what to hit.

[Skulmoski]

A well-placed fill on the snare drum is usually the best solution, in my experience anyway!

I agree Drifter; for my style of drumming this is exactly how I feel. I went from a 4 piece to a 9 piece (in the 1970s/80s) and then back to a 4 piece. You can do a lot with just a little. However, certain styles of music lend themselves to bigger sets. I'm just not there anymore.

So, trouble moving from a 3 to a 7 piece. Take your time and practice both rudiments (structured practice) and jamming with your favorite tunes. The more time you spend with your new kit, the faster you will "naturally" play your instrument.

Now, get to work; bang some drums (7 of them)!!!

GJS

[mrchattr]

Why are you moving to a larger kit if you are uncomfortable with it? The idea of having so many options as drummers is to be able to make ourselves as comfortable and content as possible. It seems a little silly to make a transition you don't like with your set up. Almost like saying, "I am moving my throne farther away from my kit, and now I find my feet and hands don't reach as well."

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

well... we always have to get out of our comfortable situation and try something new to go up in the career, whether it is in drumming or in our daily jobs.

--just a thought.

[mrchattr]

well... we always have to get out of our comfortable situation and try something new to go up in the career, whether it is in drumming or in our daily jobs.

--just a thought.

I'm all about mixing it up for learning/rehearsing/growing...heck, I'm the guy who recommends that everyone take their right handed kit and set it up left handed and learn to play that way, because it will help your independence (or left hand kit right handed, if you are a lefty). It just seemed to me like the OP is saying he is making the switch permanantly, to his gigging set up or whatever.

[ANIMALBEATS]

No i love it, it can just be confusing. I like to play off the top of my head ive never been a one for rudiments.

[mrchattr]

No i love it, it can just be confusing. I like to play off the top of my head ive never been a one for rudiments.

Ah. A hint: The more drums you use, the more rudimental your playing should become. Well, should is the wrong word. But it's easier to get around a larger kit, and hit what you want, with more knowledge of rudiments. You may find that really working the rudiments, but over the various parts of your kit, helps you not only get better with rudiments, but enjoy them more.

[Royal]

Hello
Ive recently gone from a 3 piece to a 6 piece, and am finding doing fills somewhat difficult with the added number of toms....

I play a six drum set..(2 mounted toms- - 2 floor toms)

But when I sit behind the kit I still see a two tom set but with two extra toms for when needed.
So I don't rely on four toms, but hopefully use then tastefully.
I just enjoy the versatility of the options.

[RogerLudwig]

It'll just take some practice time. Try working through singles and experimenting w/ patterns...eventually your muscle memory will adjust to where everything new is at.

I tried the same setup and fell back to a 4pc. I was excited to have all of those toms until it just struck me as pointless to tune and haul all of that extra stuff around for so little gain. Then again, I'm not doing giant, rolling tom fills.

Drifter has it right; make sure everything has a purpose.


I went from a 5-piece (1 up/2down) to a 6-piece kit (2 up/2 down) and I found it difficult to adjust to the extra tom, but more than that, I had to move my ride pie from from second tom position, which made it a little too high and to the side for maximum comfort (hey, I'm an old guy so comfort is starting to play a very important role in my set up)

I found I was enamoured with the idea of more toms, but four was too much for the sound I am trying to achieve.

[zambizzi]

I went from a 5-piece (1 up/2down) to a 6-piece kit (2 up/2 down) and I found it difficult to adjust to the extra tom, but more than that, I had to move my ride pie from from second tom position, which made it a little too high and to the side for maximum comfort (hey, I'm an old guy so comfort is starting to play a very important role in my set up)

I found I was enamoured with the idea of more toms, but four was too much for the sound I am trying to achieve.

Same here - I also found the extra floor tom too cumbersome to reach and play with comfortably. I like my ride right there where I can reach it easily (as well as the bell).

I'm just built for a four piece kit I think.

[Deathmetalconga]

Hello


Ive recently gone from a 3 piece to a 6 piece, and am finding doing fills somewhat difficult with the added number of toms, has anyone else any expreience of this....?

Most people play mid-sized kits of 5 to 8 pieces, so you are playing a common sized set. If you are going from a four-piece, which has a more limited palette, to a mid-sized kit it will re-orient your relationship with the instrument.

I suggest not using all the toms at once. Imagine you are still playing a four-piece and only use two of the toms in any song, then play another song and use two different toms. After you go through all the combinations you will start to become more familiar with a mid-sized kit.

[cnw60]

a couple of thoughts -

first - there's no need to set it all up at once if you don't want to - try adding just one tom to your 'normal' setup, get used to that and then add another...

or - experiment with different ways of setting up all of the toms. There are loads of posts around here about different setups, splitting the floor toms left and right, kind of like your setting up two independent kits, one right-handed and one left handed, but centered on a single kick drum and snare. there are other alternatives, just mess around and have fun with it and don't think that the drums need to be linear in their progression from small to large.

[Spreggy]

I don't like the idea of building up slowly, why learn to play 3 or 4 different kits? I say set 'em up, tune 'em, and start creating exercises. Like play the left toms with your left hand and the rights with the right, start jamming rudiments over bass and hat rhythms. Start basic, like paradiddle 16ths over bass on 1 & 3 and hat on 2 & 4. Start developing a vocabulary. Paradiddle inversions and other diddles, flam variations, over a gallop bass and hat, swing it, raggae it, etc.

A good book to work from is Drum Set Warm-Ups (http://www.amazon.com/Drum-Set-Warm-Ups-Essential-Exercises/dp/0634009656/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242359652&sr=8-2), it's all about getting around the kit.

[cnw60]

Why not learn to play 3 or 4 different kits?

Woodwind players might learn to play 2 or 3 different saxes, clarinet and flute. Horn players might learn trumpet, flugelhorn, etc., keyboardists might play acoustic piano, organ and various synthesizers - those are all related but fundamentally different instruments, more so than a drum set with 2, 3, 4, 5... toms - so why limit yourself?

[Drummertist]

I enjoy a 4 Pc. myself. It's like a fine wine. Yeah, I used to play a 5 Pc. but then my playing aged to perfection and a 4 Pc. fit the bill perfectly.

Mmmm...elegant with a hint of citrus.

[dairyairman]

i have a 6 piece kit and i like the flexibility it gives me. i rarely set the whole thing up, but i set it up in different configurations using different drums depending on what kind of gig i'm playing and what i feel like doing.

[frank0072]

I use a 6 piece but I'd love a 7 piece, I play in classical symphonic rockband and basic drumming with a lot of tom work is needed for our songs. Mike Portnoy is obviously an influence to me, and even though I practice for myself on a four piece, I want to play a big kit with the band.

I agree on playing as many different kits as you can. I have to set up my kit for practice, I have to set up my other kit for bandpractice and in church there is a whole other kit, so things are never positioned the same when I drum. That makes me flexible, and not fixed to a certain configuration.

[Drumsword]

I had the opposite problem, I went from a 15 Piece set ( 4 kicks, 6 toms, 2 floors, 2 snares and a timbale).
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=285687597&albumID=194723&imageID=1331962



Down to a 6 piece.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=285687597&albumID=563107&imageID=3823635

I just got tired of lugging gear. And found it really hard to adjust to so few drums. but i was playing diff music then and needed less drums.
But it forced me to get really creative and eventually I loved the possibilities. Now I have several sets in various config's so I can change things up to keep my limbs guessing, lol.

[ANIMALBEATS]

ive started opening my eyes and visualising different kit set-ups over my own.



Its also very strange having the ride so far away,

[drums32]

I'm the type of drummer who has to have a purpose for everything in my set-up, which is why I've played a 4-piece for the past several years. I 've noticed than when I have more drums in front of me, I tend to want to use them all (sometimes all at once, which is not good!). I have to remind myself that the purpose of having more drums is to have more sounds and melodic possibilities, not to show off with fancy fills. Steve Gadd has played a 6 piece (bass, snare, 2 racks, 2 floors) for many years, and he's very tasteful in the way he plays his toms. He never, ever overuses them. So, my advice would be to listen to Mr. Gadd and other pros to see how they handle larger kits, and keep it in the pocket as much as you can. A well-placed fill on the snare drum is usually the best solution, in my experience anyway!

i agree i have a 6 piece and i know i overuse my toms i dont want to overuse but i just do i try not to but i find myself doing 4 second roll tom fills which is not good, i might downsize which i already did but changed it back to my 6 piece (3 up 1 down), so i might change it 2 up 1 down again.

[canada_rokzz]

***SNIP***I also found the extra floor tom too cumbersome to reach and play with comfortably.
***END SNIP***

I have gone from 2 up 1 down, to 1 up 1 down, two a 1 up two down, and it took some time with each switch to get a good feel.

My next creation is going to be a 2 up 2 down when AND IF I ever get around to refinishing my pearl export kith with an add on Tama floor tom.

It is totally a feel thing, and to be honest, if I had not got such a great price on the kit I have now, I bet I would still be on a 4 piece kit...

Give it some time, and the feel will come!

[ANIMALBEATS]

if found my 8" always gets it, which i love the sound of but i fear i overplay it.

[ANIMALBEATS]

A long time later, and now my 3 piece feels funny. LOVING the big kit, she's a bute

[samthebeat]

I go between playing a four and five piece. Some times six, but I need another floor tom really cause I play fusion sizes and i dont like having a 12'' mounted on the floor, if I had a 13'' floor i would probly play a six more often. For me it depends what i can fit on the stage without pissing the band off. I play five mostly and i think for more its enough, 2 rack 2 floor just looks cooler and more balanced on stage i think.

In terms of phrasing and that. Right hand lead phrasing is very usefull and also accents, picking out the melodys and. Also playing nice ryhmic melodic fills. For exapmple I play some ska and I find it much better to play on a five. One of the main things I enjoy on a larger kit is flams spread across two toms as I can be more melodic with more drums. Sounds really good and opens up more possibilities for long flowing fills. The key i supose really is 1 bar drums fills, if you can find the space and make them musical you will use all your drums.

One of my fav drummers to listen to who is expecially musical is Jimmy Chamberlin (smashing pumkins) especially the Siames Dream album. He plays such beuatifull melodys and is very simple with it.

[Bernhard]

Same here - I also found the extra floor tom too cumbersome to reach and play with comfortably.

Hmm, so where do you put your towel??? (Buddy Rich)

Bernhard

[Bo Eder]

Having more drums is cool. But just so long as you realize that on a gig, 95% of your playing revolves around bass, snare and hat, you should be fine.

I doubt anyone will notice the additional drums just so long as you're doing what you're supposed to do, which is grooving like mad for the band. I do like the suggestion of just having everything up there with you, but you mainly play what you've played before, which I guess is the one rack and one floor set-up. As your head expands, you start to play more toms.

I did a funnier thing on a gig: I was called to sub in a regular bar band for a friend and he said his kit is already there, all I had to do was show up and play. I get there and he has SIX toms and five cymbals. As the night wore on, a stack of drums appeared behind me and cymbals were stacked along the wall. I was subtracting things until we hit the last set and I was down to a bass drum, snare drum, floor tom, hat, and one cymbal that I could ride and crash on. They offered me the gig at the end of the night. I declined because of other gigs I already had lined up. But since my friend was back the next night, I left his kit as a 3-piece and told his bandmates to tell him to just use what I left set-up!

[samthebeat]

yeah no doubt, on the od occasion when i have been gigging all week and being lazy ill just set up with snare and kick and cymbals. No body cares, incuding the band. Ive been playing in the same band for three years and having a few more drums makes it more interesting for me, i enjoy the challenge of using more drums and keeping it musical.

[Bo Eder]

yeah no doubt, on the od occasion when i have been gigging all week and being lazy ill just set up with snare and kick and cymbals. No body cares, incuding the band. Ive been playing in the same band for three years and having a few more drums makes it more interesting for me, i enjoy the challenge of using more drums and keeping it musical.

Yeah. I however, just sound stupid when I have more than 5 drums. And most of the time I use 4. It was a big deal to just add a cowbell.

[zakhopper316]

you know having all those drums doesn't mean you have to hit every drum after another in a 2 bar 16th note fill. just mix it up, use 2 or 3 drums at a time and just use different ones to compliment different situations. use them as musically as possible and if you get a chance to do big sweeping fills then you will be set and a little more comfortable hitting the different drums.

[JoeLackey]

Just listen to guys who are known for their fills. Listen to a lot Gavin Harrison, that guy could be musical with a toothpick and a strand of hair. Todd Sucherman is one of the best as far as flowing. That's one thing you want to take slowly and seriously. Being able to flow. About 90 percent of the time, you want to practice with a metronome (the other ten percent, I believe is for free-style soloing. a machine can't teach you to groove.) But yeah, just listen to guys like Gavin and Todd. They'll give you lots of inspiration.