I CANNOT do mid-tempo double bass!! Help!

[T-1000]

My problem is that my left foot just will not keep a steady beat heel up at 140bpm. Slower or faster than that and I can play for 10 minutes and over steadily (though, obviously not ridiculously fast like 250bpm).

So, what I've been doing is spending at least 10 minutes a day practicing just with the left foot going at 140 for 10 minutes in addition to my normal practicing of double bass at 180+bpm for 10 minutes.

Is this wise, or is my normal practicing at 180+bpm going to be making my left foot develop worse still technique?

I know the normal advice would be: "start real slow and then build it up", but in my case I can do real slow (like 50bpm), and I can do fast-ish, but I seem to have a spot in the 140-150bpm range where my left foot literally spazzes out - I think it's something to do with the transitioning of balance points between slow and fast heel up double bass (I should mention that it might be somehow to do with balance as I can do heel DOWN left foot at 140bpm without trouble). (Also, my right foot can play at 140 easily.) So I'm not sure that starting again real slow and then speeding it up would help - it might be sidestepping the issue.

I don't really want to end up being a speed demon at heel up double bass (ie. like Flo Mournier) but I really wanna be more dexterous (ie. like Chris Adler and Tomas Haake - especially in 'Bleed') - and this dilemma is seriously hurting that whole progression on the dexterity front.

So, has anyone shared my problem, and, if so, how did they overcome it?

Anyone got exercises I can do for it?

Thanks in advance guys.

[zambizzi]

Like anything else - it'll take time and practice. When you can't go any faster, go slower. Slow it down to a ridiculous degree and work out the kinks in your movements...then speed it up again.

[T-1000]

Like anything else - it'll take time and practice. When you can't go any faster, go slower. Slow it down to a ridiculous degree and work out the kinks in your movements...then speed it up again.

Thanks zambizzi - but the problem is that the 'movement' of playing heel up at 20bpm isn't the same as the movement of playing it at 140bpm, neither is it the same as playing it at 250bpm. So the 'kinks' of my technique at 20bpm will be different to the kinks at 140bpm, so even if I can play extremely smoothly at 20bpm and 250bpm I don't see how that will correlate to being able to play extremely smoothly at 140bpm if you see what I mean...

[zambizzi]

Thanks zambizzi - but the problem is that the 'movement' of playing heel up at 20bpm isn't the same as the movement of playing it at 140bpm, neither is it the same as playing it at 250bpm. So the 'kinks' of my technique at 20bpm will be different to the kinks at 140bpm, so even if I can play extremely smoothly at 20bpm and 250bpm I don't see how that will correlate to being able to play extremely smoothly at 140bpm if you see what I mean...

If you're movements are dramatically different between tempos then it's my opinion that technique may be your problem. The movements might be smaller as you speed up but the technique isn't fundamentally different, right?

Watch Steve Smith's "History" video, he demonstrates an *excellent* constant-release technique and talks about doing it very, very slowly until you've internalized it.

Also, Matt Ritter (a regular contributor here) has a fantastic video out called "Unburying the Beater".

Anyhow, there are a multitude of great double-bass players here who can comment further for ya.

[cdawg]

the hardest thing i've done so far on double bass, to get my left "up to speed" is to try to get it as fluent as my right. though i don't think it'll ever be there, i still work on it by going through my old funk/fusion books with my left foot on the kick. this has really freed up things. (actually, i switch left for right hands on these exercises, too.)

[ermghoti]

You might be in between techniques. Start at 140, then try 145, stick with it for at least 5 minutes. Then, start at 180, and go down to 175. Repeat until you find yourself overlapping.

Alternate scenario: you're not really playing 180, it's just that the tempo is fast enough that the flaws aren't showing. Play 140 for a half hour to an hour, concentrate on each stroke, don't play with your hands if it's hiding little slips. Move up very gradually from there.

[T-1000]

Alternate scenario: you're not really playing 180, it's just that the tempo is fast enough that the flaws aren't showing. Play 140 for a half hour to an hour, concentrate on each stroke, don't play with your hands if it's hiding little slips. Move up very gradually from there.

ummm, I never play anything without a click, and when I work on the feet I don't do anything with my hands (not even keep an 8th note pulse). So I would say I can play for 180bpm for 10 minutes and over (kept it up for 30 minutes once) without developing tension in the ankles.

But when the motion of heel up becomes bigger as you slow it down for mid-tempo, all sorts of problems start developing, like my foot spazzes out and needs to play either a lot faster or a lot slower - I can't keep up a steady stream of notes.

[spinupspindown]

ummm, I never play anything without a click, and when I work on the feet I don't do anything with my hands (not even keep an 8th note pulse). So I would say I can play for 180bpm for 10 minutes and over (kept it up for 30 minutes once) without developing tension in the ankles.

But when the motion of heel up becomes bigger as you slow it down for mid-tempo, all sorts of problems start developing, like my foot spazzes out and needs to play either a lot faster or a lot slower - I can't keep up a steady stream of notes.

I'm going to take a guess and say that you _are_ transitioning between techniques, and that whatever muscles you use at 140bpm are just not quite developed as those you use at 180?

Could you identify what those muscles are and design an exercise to work on them? Probably at something slower than 140 though.

(contrasting experience -- my double kick work at superfast tempos just sucks because i tend to just push my medium-tempo technique faster rather than switch over. it's not an issue at the moment so I'm not too worried)

[spinupspindown]

So, what I've been doing is spending at least 10 minutes a day practicing just with the left foot going at 140 for 10 minutes in addition to my normal practicing of double bass at 180+bpm for 10 minutes.

Is this wise, or is my normal practicing at 180+bpm going to be making my left foot develop worse still technique?

I know the normal advice would be: "start real slow and then build it up", but in my case I can do real slow (like 50bpm), and I can do fast-ish, but I seem to have a spot in the 140-150bpm range where my left foot literally spazzes out - I think it's something to do with the transitioning of balance points between slow and fast heel up double bass (I should mention that it might be somehow to do with balance as I can do heel DOWN left foot at 140bpm without trouble). (Also, my right foot can play at 140 easily.) So I'm not sure that starting again real slow and then speeding it up would help - it might be sidestepping the issue.

Just to commiserate, I have a "awkward tempo", so to speak, around 170-ish. When i play ride/hh 8ths or the jazz ride pattern at that tempo, i either speed up to 180 or higher, or slow down to 160. Unless I focus really hard. But then, this is a tempo where jazz seems to really cook, for some reason. So i have to deal with it.

Try doing 4ths/8ths/16ths at a bit lower than, and higher than, your awkward range. So let's say, 130-160. Go through that whole range of tempos in small increments. And re: my previous post, I think it would help if you figured out which muscle it is that is spazzing out. (I like this term!)

[T-1000]

I think I've worked out the problem: it's that when I play heel up with the left foot at around 140bpm I can't stop the antagonist muscle from contracting at the same time as the functional muscle.

ie. I want only the muscles that force my foot down (plantarflex the foot) to contract, but I can't stop the muscles that force the foot upwards (dorsiflex the foot) to contract at the same time, thus causing my foot to go into spasms.

Literally spasms, I'm beginning to wonder if this is actually a medical matter and if I need help, lol.

I should say that this same antagonist muscle contracting problem does not occur at higher bpms, thus I am able to play them freely. The problem is also entirely absent from my right foot.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to overcome this?

[ermghoti]

Maybe try playing doubles, where the tempo is one-half the problem area. For instance, 1e+2+3+4+, alternate the leading foot after a minute, rrlrlrlrl/llrlrlrlr. Graduate to triples, fours, etc. You'll only have to control the spasming for an instant, at first, and you can add on as you get more comfortable.

[BENANEB]

ya, something like this happened to me too. i always play heel down, and at first i could play under a glass moon by dream theater really well. but then as i got better, it got harder and harder to hit cleanly. i would recommend just practicing. practice can solve almost everything.