ABC to miking drums

[MadJazz]

I found very few threads on this subject and have many questions. Maybe you can guide me.

I don't need mics to make my drums louder (I like my drums soft!). I play to recorded music and need mics to hear the drums better through the iso-phones without much distortion and without damaging my hearing. I also like my drums sound pretty natural but a subtle "smoothening", ie cutting annoying ring and overtones, adding warmth and body etc, is very welcome.

So how do I achieve this and what are the proper terms for what I described?


1. First of all, what else do I need save mics? Which amplifiers, speakers / monitors (is there a difference?), mixer...?

2. What are micro mics good for?

3. In a minimal setup, one kick mic is enough, right? Or do I need an overhead too? And why do I see two overheads and not just one? If using three mics, wouldn't you mic the kick and toms instead of kick and cymbals? Toms don't carry as far as cymbals.

4. Why would you wanna mic the hi hat and not the ride or other cymbals?

5. If limited in number of mics, why would you mic the snare before the toms? Toms don't carry as far as a snare.

6. Why would you both top and bottom of a drum?

7. How many mics are reasoable without going over the top? If adding more mics, how much will the end quality improve? Or do more mics complicate the process unnecessarily?

8. Is there a difference in outdoor vs indoor miking in terms of setting priorities (what to mic)?

9. If I wanna record later on, what recording equipment do I need?

10. During rehearsal, how can fellow band members plug their instruments to my miked drums so we all hear the same thing?

[eddiehimself]

If you want to reduce the risk of damaging your hearing, why would you need to increase the volume of the drums into your headphones? I know whoat you mean about the dampening and smoothing of the sound, you will find that isolation headphones do a pretty good job of it as it is. But if your heart is set on mics then you don't really need many

but anyway to answer your questions:

1. you'll need a mixer to plug the mics into, then if you're using headphones you'll need a headphone amplifier, if you're planning on recording then an audio interface will do the same job as a mixer and a headphone amp.

2. To be honest, i don't know what a micro mic is. Elabourate?

3. 2 overheads is so the kit can be recorded in stereo, which sounds a lot better.

4. Actually, some people do mic the ride but because the hihat is much lower than the other cymbals, it might not be picked up as well by the overheads (which are generally used to mic all the cymbals). I personally find that my hihats are loud enough as it is so i don't use a hihat mic.

5. Actually, the snare can get lost in the mix a lot easier, just because it's a more important part of the kit than the toms, plus the snare you generally want it to be dead centre which is more easily achieved with a specialised snare mic.

6. You don't need to mic a snare or kick top and bottom (surely front and back for a kick?) but it improves the sound by giving you more of the sound, mics have a very small pickup pattern compared to your ears so things that your ears pick up like the "crack" of the snare are not nesicerally picked up by a top side snare mic, however i find that unless you're doing a really pro recording, there's not much need for one.

7. what is regarded as "over the top" really depends on your needs. In this case i wouldn't say you needed more than 4 mics, 2 overhead, one kick, one snare mic. Adding more mics for the purpose you described i think is probably slightly pointles but yes if you were doing a recording it would improve the sound, it doesn't nesicerally have to complicate things, as long as your setup is solid and you know what you're doing, but i'd say for a beginner, it's definetly better to start off with a small number of mics and add more as you get more confident.

8. I wouldn't say there was a huge amount of difference in indoor versus outdoor, apart from the fact that the reverb charachteristics are different. In terms of "micing priorities" the only difference i would say is that you wouldn't need any room mics since outside, you're not in a room! (Room mics are large condensers, generally placed a couple of metres in front of the kit usually as a stereo pair, used to capture the reverb of the room it's in, hence the name) but at the end of the day a drum kit is still a drumkit indoors or out and the same basic micing rules apply.

9. You need a decent PC, sequencing software and an audio interface. How many inputs you need depends on how many mics you have so i would say get one with 8, if you're thinking of getting more mics later on, otherwise stick with 4. Get an audio interface with firewire output too.

10. Your audio interface, in addition to the firewire output, should have some audio outputs as well that can be used for your headphones, as well as amplifiers or active monitors/PA for the rest of the band. You can also use it for the vocal mics and for guitar amp cab miking.

hope that's of a bit of help :)

[spirit]

I suspect in the main mate- you are asking the wrong people....its always better to have a studio guy decide on miles and positioning...drummers are mostly used to hearing the sound from where they sit- even when its recorded its tricked out with compression, and ambience effects etc.
Its a very emotive subject as we all hear things a little differant- then there is a matter of taste..I dont think you will be none the wiser when all is said and done with this question!
But good luck!

[MadJazz]

Thanks Eddie!

By micro mics I mean those small mics like here:
http://www.peelerdrumcenter.com/images/MicsAudixDrumMicroD.JPG

How do they compare to regular, bigger drum mics?

* * *

Do mixers have a built-in amplifiers or do I need to get one separately?

What's an audio amplifier, is it just a soundcard for pc?

My headphones already have built-in speakers. What do I need a headphone amplifier for?

[jonescrusher]

Using a pair of overheads and a kick drum mic will give very good results, with experience. If you're looking to record demos this would be a good option. Close micing toms and double micing the snare will give you more control and options when mixing. There's always the risk with this that you end up with a less 'live' and natural sounding kit than if you were record with the minimal set up.

[larryace]

Recording is such a complex undertaking, I suggest reading as much information on the web as you can stand. For your purposes I'd say you only need 3 mics, kick, snare and overhead. It's not like you are making stereo recordings, you just want to hear yourself. You may not even need a snare mic, the overhead should get everything.

Besides mic's you'll need: mic cables, mike holders or stands, a mixing board ... Since you are just headphoning it, it sounds like you need a 4, 6, or 8 channel headphone distrubition amp if more than one person is going to be "hearing the same thing" as you requested. Which means you'll need as many sets of headphones as you have heads listening. You'll also need patch cords to connect the headphone amp and to the mixer. If your bandmates want to hear your drums and their instruments through headphones, they either have to have an output from their amps to plug into the mixing board with, or they will have to be miked like you are.

Micro mikes, can't speak intelligently about.
Audix I5 is a fine snare mic
Audix D6 is a fine kick and bass cabinet mic (normally you run the bass directly into the mixer using a "direct box")
Rode NT5 is a fine overhead condenser mic (the mixing board needs "phantom power" for you to use condenser mics)
Shure SM57 captures guitar and horns well
Vocal mics, there's a really broad subject, depends on a lot of things. Maybe someone else here could elaborate on them

There are other choices for sure, but these mics will do the job in fine style
As far as your question why would you mic the snare before the toms...the snare is played more than the toms generally speaking.
Also sound travels at roughly 1100 feet per second whether it's coming from a tom or a cymbal, when the mic is within 5 feet of the kit, 1 overhead will capture it all, but the kick really needs it's own mic, the small diaphram condenser mics that you use for overheads aren't designed to reproduce the real low frequencies as well as a dedicated kick mic. You mic the top and bottom of the drum mainly for recording, so you can blend the 2 to get more choices regarding drum sounds. Don't even worry about that for what you are describing
As far as recording equipment in the future, many choices. One of the most important features you need to understand is how many inputs can you record with simultaneously.. If you only need to record one or 2 tracks simultaneously at a time, probably a computer is the way to go but if you need to record a whole band live with everything miced, then you need to be able to record multiple tracks simultaneously. I can't speak intelligently about how many simultaneous tracks you can record with a computer, I'm sure they must have interfaces to allow you to do that, but like I said, I'm not up on all the new computer recording interfaces. You have to decide exactly what your recording needs are. I have a Tascam 2488 that I can record 8 tracks simultaneously. I have 9 mics on my drum kit so I use a mixer and plug in my overheads, all tom mics, and the hi hat mics into the "sub mixer" I take one output from the sub mixer and patch it into1 input channel of my recorder, I use 2 other channels on the recorder, 1 for the snare, 1 for the kick. That leaves 5 channels left for 2 guitars, a bass, vocal, and room mic. I wish I didn't have to use a sub mixer because I can't adjust an individual tom EQ or volume after the recording is captured. I wish I had simultaneous recording capabilities for 24 tracks, but that costs quite a lot last time I checked, so I make do. Recording is a HUGE subject, dealing with frequencies, acoustics, phase cancellation, recording gear, compressors, effects units, monitoring...I could go on and on...

[cnw60]

It sounds like your needs are simple - as are mine; and what works for me is a single kick mic and one overhead. As someone else pointed out - the pair of overheads gives you stereo capability - but if you're not doing serious recording, it's not necessary. My general feeling is that more mics means more variables and therefore a greater chance of screwing up something in the process. If you don't have multitrack recording capability - there's not much reason to have more feeds (mics). If you need all that - you're better off using a pro sound engineer who can really dial it in for you.

the main thing with the single overhead is experimenting with it's position until you find it's sweet spot. Small differences in placement can yield big differences in the sound - it just takes a little bit of time (and trial and error) to find the spot that gives you the best overall mix.

Ove caveat I might add here is that some of this depends on how big your set is and how you have it set up. I've got a pretty straightforward 5-piece and it's pretty compact, but I could see where somebody with a big sprawling setup could possibly need more mics. But still - I think a well placed single overhead can do a great job.

[eddiehimself]

Thanks Eddie!

By micro mics I mean those small mics like here:
http://www.peelerdrumcenter.com/images/MicsAudixDrumMicroD.JPG

How do they compare to regular, bigger drum mics?

* * *

Do mixers have a built-in amplifiers or do I need to get one separately?

What's an audio amplifier, is it just a soundcard for pc?

My headphones already have built-in speakers. What do I need a headphone amplifier for?

I haven't heard those mics but to be honest i doubt they're really any better or worse than a good 'ol SM57 for the snare.

Yes, most mixers do have built in amplifiers, however usually the phantom power capability (needed for condensers) is limited to either all channels or off completely so you probably won't be able to mix condensers and dynamic mics. I'd say just get dynamic mics for now since they'll do what you want fine and they're cheap.

An audio amplifier erm, amplifies the sound. You could well use a pc soundcard for this purpose or an audio interface which is really the same thing. But that's only if you want to record.

Okay. Well the reason we use headphone amplifiers is so that you can take a standard line out port and plug one or more pairs of headphones into it. That could mean that your bandmates could use it as well as a sort of monitoring system, isn't that good?

As far as recording equipment in the future, many choices. One of the most important features you need to understand is how many inputs can you record with simultaneously.. If you only need to record one or 2 tracks simultaneously at a time, probably a computer is the way to go but if you need to record a whole band live with everything miced, then you need to be able to record multiple tracks simultaneously. I can't speak intelligently about how many simultaneous tracks you can record with a computer, I'm sure they must have interfaces to allow you to do that, but like I said, I'm not up on all the new computer recording interfaces. You have to decide exactly what your recording needs are. I have a Tascam 2488 that I can record 8 tracks simultaneously. I have 9 mics on my drum kit so I use a mixer and plug in my overheads, all tom mics, and the hi hat mics into the "sub mixer" I take one output from the sub mixer and patch it into1 input channel of my recorder, I use 2 other channels on the recorder, 1 for the snare, 1 for the kick. That leaves 5 channels left for 2 guitars, a bass, vocal, and room mic. I wish I didn't have to use a sub mixer because I can't adjust an individual tom EQ or volume after the recording is captured. I wish I had simultaneous recording capabilities for 24 tracks, but that costs quite a lot last time I checked, so I make do. Recording is a HUGE subject, dealing with frequencies, acoustics, phase cancellation, recording gear, compressors, effects units, monitoring...I could go on and on...

To answer your question here, in theory as long as your PC can handle it, there really is no limit to the amount of simultaineous tracks you can record. It's all about the interface. MAKIE make a firewire card for the onyx 1640 mixer which allows you to have 16 independent tracks simultaineously at 96khz 24bit quality. I don't think there really is any reason why you can only have one mixer connected to your PC though if you wanted more than 16 tracks, as long as it can handle it.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Yes, most mixers do have built in amplifiers, however usually the phantom power capability (needed for condensers) is limited to either all channels or off completely so you probably won't be able to mix condensers and dynamic mics. I'd say just get dynamic mics for now since they'll do what you want fine and they're cheap.


This is not a concern. Whilst it is not necessarily ideal to power dynamic mics, the perceived risk of damage is basically non-existent. Unless you are using poor quality dynamic mics or ones that have been previously damaged, charging it will make no difference. The only time this might be a problem is with older ribbon microphones - which are VERY delicate and sensitive to these phenomena. Modern ribbon microphones are typically protected against phantom power; although ideally you would not want to charge them; these are not dynamic microphones are dynamic microphones are not affected by phantom power. Having phantom power across the board is not a risk and hasn't been so for decades, especially when using a combination of dynamic and condenser.

[2bsticks]

Check this out. Dave goes into some pretty good detail on this subject.