What are your Drumming Prejudices?

[SGT_Drummer]

So you have the question, what is it that makes you look at someone and go 'psh, amatuer', without ever hearing them? i don't honestly think anyone has humbled themselves to the point that they absolutely don't do this anymore. so what does it for ya?


for me, take the picture below. the second tom position. ugh! i saw this pic on another thread (by bobdadruma) and that was my first thought. then i looked at who it was, bobdadruma, who has almost 600 posts and alot of which i have gained a degree of enlightenment from. but yeah that was my initial reaction, and that got me thinking about what other people's prejudices are.

[Pretzel Logic]

A fused together Hi Hat, a snare drum with extreme tilt towards the throne, and uh... I guess extremely dented heads?

I try not to judge before I listen but I can't help it XD. I'll give them a chance either way though.

[bobdadruma]

Please elaborate further about what bothers you so much about the placement of my tom. At one time I played my toms close together. I always had trouble when doing rolls. I would hit the rims. I would hit the rim even when I was rolling from tom to tom with one hand. I would always go to far to the right. When I separated them the problem stopped and I hit the right tom dead center! I know that people don't recommend this but it worked for me. I see where you are going with this and I like it. We frequently attack each other about the placement of our drums on DW and elsewhere. We all do it! I don't think that anyone isn't guilty of prejudging someone by the setup of their kit.

[bobdadruma]

A fused together Hi Hat, a snare drum with extreme tilt towards the throne, and uh... I guess extremely dented heads?

I try not to judge before I listen but I can't help it XD. I'll give them a chance either way though. The distance between my hat cyms is over 1 inch. I set them higher sometimes. I just measured them. My snare is tilted away from my throne. It is the camera angle. I was showing placement of the throne in this pic. There are no dents in the heads. The pic is poorly exposed. The heads are almost new. I never dent heads.

[SGT_Drummer]

Please elaborate further about what bothers you so much about the placement of my tom.

its just that when i started playing, and for several years into my drumming life thats how i set up my toms. then i tried moving that second tom to the floor and putting the ride there and found that for me it works much better. so i kind of inadvertently look at set ups like that as novice because i grew out of that. not to say that there is anything wrong with that set up, if works for you then go with it. but like i said, it's just my initial thought.

i do want to say again that it was in no way a knock on you. i'm sure you have threefold the experience i have. but it made me aware of my own prejudice after i saw it and then went "oh wait, it's bobdadruma! he's not a newby". I really don't mean to sound like i'm kissing a$$, but it's truly not my intention to offend anyone.

[Pretzel Logic]

The distance between my hat cyms is over 1 inch. I set them higher sometimes. I just measured them. My snare is tilted away from my throne. It is the camera angle. I was showing placement of the throne in this pic.

I was responding to the general question. I actually don't see anything wrong with your kit.

[bobdadruma]

I was responding to the general question. I actually don't see anything wrong with your kit. This is a good thread. We all do what SGT- drummer is saying. We are all guilty of this behavior!

[bobdadruma]

its just that when i started playing, and for several years into my drumming life thats how i set up my toms. then i tried moving that second tom to the floor and putting the ride there and found that for me it works much better. so i kind of inadvertently look at set ups like that as novice because i grew out of that. not to say that there is anything wrong with that set up, if works for you then go with it. but like i said, it's just my initial thought.

i do want to say again that it was in no way a knock on you. i'm sure you have threefold the experience i have. but it made me aware of my own prejudice after i saw it and then went "oh wait, it's bobdadruma! he's not a newby". I really don't mean to sound like i'm kissing a$$, but it's truly not my intention to offend anyone. I understand and I don't mind. I at one time had three toms to the left of my bass and I also had a ride where my right tom is now. I had two floor toms then also. We all change our kits from time to time.

[bobdadruma]

My biggest prejudice is loose tuning! I hate loose drums! I just want to walk up to a drummer and tighten his lugs up when I hear them!

[SGT_Drummer]

My biggest prejudice is loose tuning! I hate loose drums! I just want to walk up to a drummer and tighten his lugs up when I hear them!

haha that is SOOO true. i think i would add old raggedy heads too. seriously, look at someone's set with dents and warps and everything in the heads and you go "wow, your technique sucks!" when in actuallity thier technique may be fine, they jsut like hitting hard. or maybe thier kid did it. lol.

[aydee]

Boy, your drumset really sucks, Bob. Your toms look all cock-eyed, and your hats are all fused AND you got dents..tsk, tsk, tsk.

Very very bad.

[Pavlos]

A fused together Hi Hat

What exactly does that mean? Like welded?

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I tend to look at a set and just wonder what it would be like to play it the way it is set up. But I can't comment in a negative way since mine is the only one I see everyday. I may sit down at someone elses "mess of a set up" one day and think Damn, this is how it should be, and run home and change mine.

[theindian]

I always hate seeing extreme cymbal angels, like almost vertical. but i guess most of this stuff has nothing to do with skill level, just personal preference or weird ideas.

[caddywumpus]

My drumming prejudices/peeves...

1. Drums that are really far apart (mounted toms spread WAY apart--bobda's are within "normal" limits)
2. Cymbals and drums that are extremely angled or extremely far away from the drummer.
3. Drums that are tuned so high that they choke the drum or so low that the head rattles.
4. 2 of the same-sized bass drums on a kit, tuned the same. (C'mon--they have double pedals for that, for crying out loud!!!)
5. Toms without resonant heads.
6. Clear heads that you can't see through anymore.
7. Dimples in heads. (Ugh!)
8. Signs of the resonant head being used at a batter. (Double UGH!!!)
9. Brushes that are bent in every which direction.
10. Big strips of duct tape on heads.

....okay, I'll stop now.

[natureboy]

These are things that piss me off:

dented, duct taped, or ragged drumheads
toms too far apart from each other
cymbals too high (VERY COMMON EVEN WITH PROS)
sloppily muffled bass drums
poor tuning (usually excessively low)
stupid drum configurations
off brand drums or cymbals
playing on stock drumheads


These are things that I like doing and would recommend to other drummers:

hit drums very hard, but tune properly so you get good rebound and avoid dents
tuning properly means top and bottom tight as possible with fingers only, then 1/2 turn of drumkey on top, 1 complete turn on bottom
cymbals should be set very low, barely enough to clear toms, allows for faster playing
toms angled slightly, not too much but not flat either
hit cymbals "indirectly" - some call it glancing; broken only 1 cymbal in 16+ years

[freebirdgdw]

For me I'd say it's when you see a kit with 2 toms coming off the bass drums and they're at ridiculous, almost vertical angles. Also When you see a bass drum that is literally packed with duvets, pillows etc. It's OK to have bit of dampening but when the bass drum is fit to burst, it's too much. Similar to that is too much dampening on toms, such 30 pieces of Moongel per tom; it's too much!

[caddywumpus]

These are things that I like doing and would recommend to other drummers:

hit drums very hard


Hmm...don't get me started about what my prejudices are once a drummer STARTS playing!

I forgot one! If I see the corner of a pillow or a bit of blanket peeping itself slightly out of the bass drum port hole...

[eddiehimself]

I always think that people who muffle all their drums excessively are inexperienced with the drums. I see where you're coming from about it being a thing you used to do yourself but then grew out of it. I used to hate ringy snares so i always think that anyone who also hates ringy snares is just not very experienced with the way drums are "supposed" to sound i guess.

[brotherbaker]

1. Excessive muffling, especially in a bass drum
2. Duct tape holding the snares to the reso head to prevent rattle
3. Cymbal stands with no sleeves - metal to metal is never good
4. Moongels on Remo pinstripes. Come on...
5. Loose or missing lugs

[metal overlord]

- People who call me out for double bass, saying that I can just buy a double pedal for that. (sorry Caddy)
- Insane tom angels, and where they are pointed every which way
- duct taped heads
- poor tuning
- ugly drums (treated poorly)
- off-time playing (It drives me insane when drummers are out of time)
- no resonant heads
- Remo Pinstripes (well, not really, I just never had luck with them)

[BattleArmor]

sloppily muffled bass drums







What do you mean by "sloppy"

I have a pair of old pants and a towel in my bass drum [ not just rolled up and put in there but at very precise positions for both ], and I always get complemented on the sound.

[BattleArmor]

4. Moongels .... Come on...



....What?

I can totally understand 5, 6 pieces on a drum. But there is nothing wrong with a piece or half a piece on a drum. Just look at Jojo Mayer. He uses Moon Gel all the time.

[caddywumpus]

- People who call me out for double bass, saying that I can just buy a double pedal for that. (sorry Caddy)


So be it! Let the war begin...

:P

[DrumEatDrum]

Going to see a rock band, but the drummer only has small crashes. You never hear 'em.

A drummer has a huge Neil Peart like kit, but plays like Charlie Watts. Come on, if you're going to set up, use it once in a while.

A drummer who takes hours to set up his basic drum kit because he has 20 million different triggers and a huge rack out outboard gear that has to be wired from scratch every time, and then you never really notice the triggered sounds during the show.

And the worst:

The e-drummer who is only on stage for visuals, while all the actual drumming is coming from the backing tracks. Even worse when the fake drumming is out of time with the backing tracks.

[what the funk of it]

Just last week a saw a guy at a show had setup his cymbals all completely flat, I thought 'Oh boy, here it comes...'

They were a screemo band, loud as anything. I really don't care for that type of music, I still thought the cymbals we're WAY too loud as he crashed the edges at full force every time. I also thought it was kind of wack how he was playing serious double pedal on a tiny bass drum (16 or 18 i think - you should have seen this drum shake, reminded me of that episode of the simpsons when bart shook up homer's can of duff...a classic)

Anyway, I disagreed with about everything this band was doing - except for they're own light guy, he was damn solid. Nevertheless, the drummer was really tight as was the rest of the band. I didn't like the music, but i was impressed!

--- especially this light guy.. man. Side stage, had about 4 standard light switches hooked up to a piece of plywood. He knew all the parts and flashed those lights in perfect syncopation with the band. Polyrhythms between two lights like crazy. You should have seen his flippin fingers ;)

[larryace]

I don't have any before the guy starts, but after he starts playing, then I usually have a ton of stuff to say. But hey if he's all that then I'm the first to say so too. You don't run into that as much as the other types of drummers. I critique recordings of myself as harshly as I critique other guys drumming

[bobdadruma]

This thread reminded me of a childhood experience. In the late sixties when I was in the fifth grade I lived in a town where bicycle road racing was extremely popular. Many kids in my neighborhood had racing bikes and there were many organized road races throughout the year.
I wasn't interested in road racing. I liked to ride my bike on dirt trails along a river that was near my house. There were miles of rough muddy trails.
I realized that my road bike was not suited for riding on trails. Keep in mind that the mountain bike hadn't been invented yet. I spoked the wheels on my ten speed with wider rims and I installed the widest tires that I could find. I had made a primitive mountain bike. I began to ride on the muddy trails as often as I could. I loved it! I had never had so much fun on a bike before!
One day some of the road racing kids saw me returning from one of my trail rides. I was all muddy, bloody and cruddy! They picked on me and they criticized my unusual bike. You know, the way kids do. I went home, put the bike away and I stopped riding it.
A few weeks past, I wanted to ride the bike on the trails but I didn't want to be the subject of further ridicule. One day I had an epiphany! I thought to myself, Why should I let these people stop me from doing what I want to do? I like riding in the mud, So why shouldn't I ride on the trails? I got on that bike and I rode it on the trails as hard as I could! I rode it so hard that I buckled the front wheel! I face planted in the dirt! It was the best day of my life! It was a personal triumph!
I never let anyone tell me what I should or shouldn't do again!
I don't think that I have to explain how this story ties into this thread.

[Ethan01]

Not a good analogy... that's like me ridiculing the timpani or latin drums because I own a rock set and think every drummer should play a rock set. It's more like me making fun of your road bike if it had its handlebars up high, the seat down low, you couldn't reach the ground with your feet, and you looked awkward riding it. We'd wanna help you get your bike properly tuned and fitted, but deep-down we're thinking wow, this kid is really new!

Anyways, back to the topic, my prejudices are..

1.) Double bass pedal, or double bass setup. In general I don't like how a metal double bass lick sounds. Sometimes these are the same guys that lock their hihats tight, and thrash all around their kits. Hmm... maybe this is just a prejudice against all metal music, the more I think about it?

2.) Drummers that are lead singers. I'm ok with doing backing vocals, but some bands that have drummers as lead singers rub me the wrong way. When I watch a drummer sing, it's hard to follow the rhythm of their motions.

3.) Drummers that play extremely laid back, barely move their body, hit drums like they're bitch-slapping other guys in the face cause they've been naughty. I've seen some drummers, on youtube too, that play like this. These are the same guys that have 0 dynamics usually, cause every hit on a drum is made by the same motion.

4.) Drummers who make orgasm-faces to the singer when he/she looks back at them. Self-explanatory, and yes, I have seen plenty drummers do it.

5.) Drummers locked in the cage called their drum kit, you can barely see them inside the giant mess of drums and cymbals. If they dynamically use all the drum-pieces for a reason, I instantly gain respect for them. Sometimes, however, it is the rich kid who is able to afford the 20-piece set, and hits a different crash at the end of fills and calls it creativity.

I have a ton more, haha, I can be a judgmental person. Those are just the ones that came to my head from bands that have played with us.

This thread reminded me of a childhood experience. In the late sixties when I was in the fifth grade I lived in a town where bicycle road racing was extremely popular. Many kids in my neighborhood had racing bikes and there were many organized road races throughout the year.
I wasn't interested in road racing. I liked to ride my bike on dirt trails along a river that was near my house. There were miles of rough muddy trails.
I realized that my road bike was not suited for riding on trails. Keep in mind that the mountain bike hadn't been invented yet. I spoked the wheels on my ten speed with wider rims and I installed the widest tires that I could find. I had made a primitive mountain bike. I began to ride on the muddy trails as often as I could. I loved it! I had never had so much fun on a bike before!
One day some of the road racing kids saw me returning from one of my trail rides. I was all muddy, bloody and cruddy! They picked on me and they criticized my unusual bike. You know, the way kids do. I went home, put the bike away and I stopped riding it.
A few weeks past, I wanted to ride the bike on the trails but I didn't want to be the subject of further ridicule. One day I had an epiphany! I thought to myself, Why should I let these people stop me from doing what I want to do? I like riding in the mud, So why shouldn't I ride on the trails? I got on that bike and I rode it on the trails as hard as I could! I rode it so hard that I buckled the front wheel! I face planted in the dirt! It was the best day of my life! It was a personal triumph!
I never let anyone tell me what I should or shouldn't do again!
I don't think that I have to explain how this story ties into this thread.

[bobdadruma]

To Ethan01, The main point of the story was that everyone has to go down their own trail and follow their own road. It is not what others think of you that is important. It is the personal experience that really matters. We don't drum for fame and fortune. We drum for ourselves! If others want to listen to us, than that is fine also!
In the end, When all the drumming is done, There will be nothing left but your own personal perspective. It won't matter what others thought of you. You must please yourself to achieve total satisfaction.
When this thread started, I immediately embraced it. The author of this thread PM'd me to inform me of his meaning for singling me out. I wasn't embarrassed that he chose me, I was honored! I learned that on my muddy bike years ago! Follow your own heart and play to it!

[thechief7676]

mine are people who don't like double bass drums or double pedals. Jealous much of the flying 32nd notes?

[DrewTheShoe]

To Ethan01, The main point of the story was that everyone has to go down their own trail and follow their own road. It is not what others think of you that is important. It is the personal experience that really matters. We don't drum for fame and fortune. We drum for ourselves! If others want to listen to us, than that is fine also!
In the end, When all the drumming is done, There will be nothing left but your own personal perspective. It won't matter what others thought of you. You must please yourself to achieve total satisfaction.

While you have a valid point, you can't help but chuckle at things like the "tom angles" thread...

[bobdadruma]

While you have a valid point, you can't help but chuckle at things like the "tom angles" thread... It is OK to laugh with people, To laugh at people who are different is the true crime. Like I said in the beginning of this thread, We are all guilty of this. It is human nature to prejudge and segregate those that are different from ourselves. If we dislike these people because they differ from us then we have crossed the line. Remember, They can also pick on us! It is a two way street! I don't want to dislike someone that is different than me and I don't want it the other way around either.

[Ethan01]

OMG yes i is so jealous, hold on, lemme clean my ears i think they're bleeding, why didn't i think of blanketing songs with 32nd notes of 1 instrument that doesn't even make a musical tone

mine are people who don't like double bass drums or double pedals. Jealous much of the flying 32nd notes?

[DrewTheShoe]

OMG yes i is so jealous, hold on, lemme clean my ears i think they're bleeding, why didn't i think of blanketing songs with 32nd notes of 1 instrument that doesn't even make a musical tone

Hey bro, let's just calm down. Metalheads love their 32nd just as much as jazzers love their triplets. They do their thing, and you can do your's, no need to start calling 'em out just for things YOU don't particularly like.

[SGT_Drummer]

My drumming prejudices/peeves...

1. Drums that are really far apart (mounted toms spread WAY apart--bobda's are within "normal" limits)
2. Cymbals and drums that are extremely angled or extremely far away from the drummer.
3. Drums that are tuned so high that they choke the drum or so low that the head rattles.
4. 2 of the same-sized bass drums on a kit, tuned the same. (C'mon--they have double pedals for that, for crying out loud!!!)
5. Toms without resonant heads.
6. Clear heads that you can't see through anymore.
7. Dimples in heads. (Ugh!)
8. Signs of the resonant head being used at a batter. (Double UGH!!!)
9. Brushes that are bent in every which direction.
10. Big strips of duct tape on heads.

....okay, I'll stop now.

and this is why i love caddy's posts. i'll take numbers 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, and a big ol' helping of 10!!

also what ethan said about drummers singing. the only time i have seen this done correctly was by The Rev on the A7X live DVD. He had very unique vocal parts and still did crazy crap while he was singing, instantly gaining that much more respect from me. i mean who do all these other guys think they are, phil collins? psh!

[SGT_Drummer]

Hey bro, let's just calm down. Metalheads love their 32nd just as much as jazzers love their triplets. They do their thing, and you can do your's, no need to start calling 'em out just for things YOU don't particularly like.

i do enjoy the tasteful 32nd note bass runs, but when someone does it like the ENTIRE FRIGGIN' SONG!!!! that drives me nuts. that goes along the same lines of drummers who do the same basic rock beat during the ENTIRE FRIGGIN' SONG!!! with no fills or anything. variety is the spice of life...

[Kenny_V]

i absolutely HATE when people have mix and match drums. it kills me to see a certain brand of kit, with a random tom(s) or kick of another kit added on to make it bigger.
it looks tacky in my eyes.

i recently played a high school battle of the bands and 80 percent of the drummers there had mix-match kits. i was going crazy.

[masonni]

Here is what I hate...

-Cymbals, Toms, and Snares that are angled way to much
-Dented heads
-Duck tape on ANYTHING
-Poor technique
-Over amounts of muffling
-No reso heads
-Reso heads that have been on the kit for more than a year
-Drummers who are not entertaining. As in, sitting there stone faced, looking board, or like they are concentrating way to hard on what they are doing.
-Cracked or broken cymbals on the kit (why bother?)
-Guys who take thier cymbals off the stands and put them away while another band is waiting to get on stage. (This pisses me off more than anything!) I don't care how good you are, if you stand up and start to take off your cymbals I want to punch you in the face! Just pick up the stand with the cymbal on it, and move your ass.... When people do this before I have to go on, I walk right up and grab the stand the dude is unscrewing, and I will ask "were do you want this?"

I am sure I am guilty of a lot of the things people hate, so please, no one get offended... Unless you unscrew your cymbal stand while another band is waiting to go on!

[Big_Philly]

Duck tape on the center of the heads to get a thuddy dead sound.
People who play with two different sticks
People who don't know their own limits and try to play faster licks than they can
...People who do this out of time
People who bash into their drums as if they (the drums) deserve to die (unfortunately, plenty of famous drummers do that).

[Daphfz]

Duck tape on the center of the heads to get a thuddy dead sound.
People who play with two different sticks
People who don't know their own limits and try to play faster licks than they can
...People who do this out of time
People who bash into their drums as if they (the drums) deserve to die (unfortunately, plenty of famous drummers do that).

*cough* Lars.. Ulrich.... *cough* :)

[eddiehimself]

Hey bro, let's just calm down. Metalheads love their 32nd just as much as jazzers love their triplets. They do their thing, and you can do your's, no need to start calling 'em out just for things YOU don't particularly like.

Actually, metalheads quite like triplets too :p

[eddiehimself]

To Ethan01, The main point of the story was that everyone has to go down their own trail and follow their own road. It is not what others think of you that is important. It is the personal experience that really matters. We don't drum for fame and fortune. We drum for ourselves! If others want to listen to us, than that is fine also!
In the end, When all the drumming is done, There will be nothing left but your own personal perspective. It won't matter what others thought of you. You must please yourself to achieve total satisfaction.
When this thread started, I immediately embraced it. The author of this thread PM'd me to inform me of his meaning for singling me out. I wasn't embarrassed that he chose me, I was honored! I learned that on my muddy bike years ago! Follow your own heart and play to it!

Okay, is it still a "personal experience" if you get permanent damage to your wrists from not listening to people telling you to change your grip though?

[brotherbaker]

....What?

I can totally understand 5, 6 pieces on a drum. But there is nothing wrong with a piece or half a piece on a drum. Just look at Jojo Mayer. He uses Moon Gel all the time.

My comment was about moongels on a Remo pinstripe head which is a two ply head with a muffling ring. It's my opinion that there is a tuning issue if you think that is necessary. I do agree that moongels have their place. My issue is personal because I have to share a kit at times with a guy that has very loose, flappy pinstripes with moongel all over them & they sound like hitting a bowl of jello....

[rolander]

This is a cool thread. Here are A few of mine.

1. The tom angles thing. like when the toms form a V shape around the drummer.
miles away from each other and look virtually unplayable.
2. When the drummer taps his way around the drums like he doesn't have the energy
todo anything else.

These are most common with younger players but when u see old guys doing it, it can drive you nuts.

3. Double pedals for no genuine reason, ie. they aren't being used AT ALL. [i admit i use a
dp, but because a) i use it, b) my favourite single pedal is the right pedal of the dp! so
i might as well use it! ha.]
4. the huge kits that aren't really necessary and that seem to be just gear for gear's sake.
certain prog rock drummers spring t mind. i think watchin a buddy, jojo or vinnie [I]play[I]stuff on any old kit is far more enertaing than a huge kit that is't being utilised. Which leads nicely on to
5. Mismatched kits, different toms to bass drums etc. i used to hate this. don't anymore.
i live n a smalltown and in this town happens to live an absolute drum prodigy. so good i cry myself to sleep at night

on any small kit is infinitely more entertaining than a huge

[rolander]

ouch. that post didn't quite come off.

k, basicaly, not into huge kits that aren't being utilised when real good players can do mad stuff on any old kit. also, used to hat mis matched kits, don't now, not after seein an amazing local guy show what he can do on any surface. and he's played some mismatched kits over the years, becase he's that good that it doesn't matter.

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

Rules, if any. It limits my playing if I were told to.

[metal overlord]

OMG yes i is so jealous, hold on, lemme clean my ears i think they're bleeding, why didn't i think of blanketing songs with 32nd notes of 1 instrument that doesn't even make a musical tone

Hey now. We all have our own musical likings.
Lighten up, would you? I'm prejudice to all metal haters. That's my #1 turn-off. You want make fun of my music? Well I can bash away at yours, too, bro.
I'm not going to, because I have a little something called respect for others music. Don't insult other genres just because your close minded attitude doesn't like it.

[trysthedrummer]

My biggest prejudice is loose tuning! I hate loose drums! I just want to walk up to a drummer and tighten his lugs up when I hear them! I agree as well! It's mostly other drummers snares that sound terrible! Give it a quick nip (when they're not looking) and it sounds much better. They don't even notice the sound has changed.

Also duct tape on heads. I know people here do it but I just don't like it! It looks a bit of a mess, use scissors or something to cut it neatly at least!! :)

Over the top stick twirling. It just looks silly. It's ok if you do it here and then in a song, but 2 times in one BAR!!!! REPEATED!!! Go home, please.

Picky drummers who are not please with the sound from outstage. I'm off and on, no problem. Sound check done. - The rest of the band are not happy with certain levels of the kit and/or it doesn't sound good. Tune them properly and look after your drums!!

[jer]

-Guys who take thier cymbals off the stands and put them away while another band is waiting to get on stage. (This pisses me off more than anything!) I don't care how good you are, if you stand up and start to take off your cymbals I want to punch you in the face! Just pick up the stand with the cymbal on it, and move your ass.... When people do this before I have to go on, I walk right up and grab the stand the dude is unscrewing, and I will ask "were do you want this?"


I'd kindly reply to your query with "Right where it is, thanks!" And continue putting my cymbals in the case. For the most part, I'm not cool having anyone move any of my stuff before I've got it in cases. My band mates help a lot with tear down, I never run into problems.

[rogue_drummer]

Not many. Drummers tend to be a creative lot, so whatever arrangement works best for you, then do it. But....

What really ticks me off:
1) Duck taped heads to sound like cardboard boxs,
2) No resonant heads,
3) Really trashed out kits that were once nice looking and nice sounding, and,
4) Toms at ridiculously placed angles.

What really, really ticks me off:
1) Egotism in any shape, form, or fashion. It only ruins it for everyone involved (that means YOU Larry P. Yes, that is a challenge!),

and finally, what really, really, really pisses me off to no end:
1) Dipshit guitar players who think they know everything about drums and drumming. (Yes, John W., I am talking about YOU!)


other than that, live and let live......

[PQleyR]

I'd kindly reply to your query with "Right where it is, thanks!" And continue putting my cymbals in the case. For the most part, I'm not cool having anyone move any of my stuff before I've got it in cases. My band mates help a lot with tear down, I never run into problems.

Also, if the stands are shared, you've got no choice but to stand there and rage about it. Or just wait.

[Anne Beeche]

Oh, I have a lot of them. More like pet peeves than prejudices, but whatever.

- flat toms. (I realize that in the young drummer culture this is supposed to indicate 'experience', but how the hell do you play properly with the toms so flat?)

- open snare. Some can do it right, but most can't.

- drums tuned too high or too low. Once in a blue moon somebody manages to make the tone work, but it usually doesn't.

- differing sticks. Course, if you had to grab a spare stick because you dropped one mid-gig, that's cool, but you gotta at least start out with matching sticks. I know my sticks differ, but that's because I'm so poor I can't get another pair of sticks. ^^

[Guz2]

People pronouncing "Paiste" as "Paste"

[trysthedrummer]

Well that's not that bad. I would just correct the person who said it wrong. I said it like when I started, and I said Sabb-ian too! :S

[matt949]

I'd kindly reply to your query with "Right where it is, thanks!" And continue putting my cymbals in the case. For the most part, I'm not cool having anyone move any of my stuff before I've got it in cases. My band mates help a lot with tear down, I never run into problems.

sill even when your band mates help you are still making the other drummer have less time for set up, cause your mates have to get there stuff of too right? its just as easy to move your stands fully set up and THEN take the cymbals off right?

it aggravates me too personaly, even taking the snare off the stand and such. it makes life easier on the other drummers when you take it all off faster and then disassemble.

[Ian Williams]

Drum-brand fashion mongers.

[tomgrosset]

Drummers who try and label speed drummers (drummers who compete in speed drumming competitions or drummers that play fast) as "non-musicians" when in reality they're being nescient in their beliefs and are constantly making false judgments. What I find amusing about this whole thing is that these "speed drummers" are actually more productive with their time instead of these clowns who sit on their asses all day on the internet looking like fools. They swim in their own jealousy and instead of simply respecting it for what it is they attack it. I also don't like drummers who can't respect one another's music. Music is a feeling - it's another form of expression despite what it may sound like to you.

[freebirdgdw]

Over the top stick twirling. It just looks silly. It's ok if you do it here and then in a song, but 2 times in one BAR!!!! REPEATED!!! Go home, please.

You'd hate this guy then, but c'mon, what a showman!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw4_4gWJ03M

[elpol]

You'd hate this guy then, but c'mon, what a showman!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw4_4gWJ03M
My head hurts....

my prejudices are simple: assumptions and inflexibility. why? because I still battle them myself (the world's a mirror, ain't it?)

elliot

[FFFF]

What really gets me going are:

-Players who really focus on the double kicks. I'm not saying that they completely useless, but it's more of an "optional" thing to me. They are really cool and personally I like how they sound as well, but there's no point getting your feet to play better than your hands. I mean you're not expected to prepare a college audition piece with your feet. I once told my teacher that I want to get a double kick and really dedicate myself into it, an he replied that drummers are hired for what they can do with their hands, not their feet. Same thing as well when I see drummers on stage that had a six-piece Oak Custom set up, but only pounds out 32nd notes on the bass drum and backbeats on snare.

-Drummers who DOES NOT respect other styles of music. Those younger rock/metal drummers who said jazz drummers are sissies, playing ghost notes and doesn't rimshot. They're forgetting that drum kits originated from jazz music, from Gene Krupa. Never mind how drum kits are created, but they're forgetting how contemporary music are derived from jass as well. Same goes for older drummers who said "what's with blastbeats and 32nd bass drum rolls." Sure, metal's not really mainstream yet, but it takes a lot of dedication to get that accurate timing and precision to play that fast.

Everyone seems to get annoyed about angled toms/cymbals, spaced toms, duct tapes, etc....and how some of us "grew" out of it. So we can conclude it's more of a "novice" habit, well since most of us are pretty experienced to dislike these?

[aydee]

What really gets me going are:

-Players who really focus on the double kicks. I'm not saying that they completely useless, but it's more of an "optional" thing to me. They are really cool and personally I like how they sound as well, but there's no point getting your feet to play better than your hands. I mean you're not expected to prepare a college audition piece with your feet. I once told my teacher that I want to get a double kick and really dedicate myself into it, an he replied that drummers are hired for what they can do with their hands, not their feet. Same thing as well when I see drummers on stage that had a six-piece Oak Custom set up, but only pounds out 32nd notes on the bass drum and backbeats on snare.

-Drummers who DOES NOT respect other styles of music.

Well, I dont much care for metal personally, but I respect the style.. Which is why I think your teacher's statement is a pretty biased and ignorant one.

And you seem not to respect styles that incorporate double bass after emphatically stating that you do.

[caddywumpus]

-Guys who take thier cymbals off the stands and put them away while another band is waiting to get on stage. (This pisses me off more than anything!) I don't care how good you are, if you stand up and start to take off your cymbals I want to punch you in the face! Just pick up the stand with the cymbal on it, and move your ass.... When people do this before I have to go on, I walk right up and grab the stand the dude is unscrewing, and I will ask "were do you want this?"

I am sure I am guilty of a lot of the things people hate, so please, no one get offended... Unless you unscrew your cymbal stand while another band is waiting to go on!

What I can't stand are people trying to take my stuff off stage while I'm tearing down. Of course I take my cymbals off of the stands before taking the stands off of the stage. That's just common sense! Especially since I mount my 24" ride and 16" crash on splash booms off of a stand with a 19" crash already on it. I'm not going to risk having some impatient musician or soundguy move my gear. That is, unless they approach calmly, they're nice about it, and offer to help politely. Then, I'll find something that I can trust them with ("Here's my throne...").

Luckily, I don't deal with this too much anymore, as my bands usually headline or play exclusively.

[trysthedrummer]

You'd hate this guy then, but c'mon, what a showman!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw4_4gWJ03M

Definately a good showman for the crowd. I suppose in that circumstance maybe but still it's a bit over the top and a bit hectic crossing over his arms for my liking!

[eddiehimself]

What really gets me going are:

-Players who really focus on the double kicks. I'm not saying that they completely useless, but it's more of an "optional" thing to me. They are really cool and personally I like how they sound as well, but there's no point getting your feet to play better than your hands. I mean you're not expected to prepare a college audition piece with your feet. I once told my teacher that I want to get a double kick and really dedicate myself into it, an he replied that drummers are hired for what they can do with their hands, not their feet. Same thing as well when I see drummers on stage that had a six-piece Oak Custom set up, but only pounds out 32nd notes on the bass drum and backbeats on snare.

-Drummers who DOES NOT respect other styles of music. Those younger rock/metal drummers who said jazz drummers are sissies, playing ghost notes and doesn't rimshot. They're forgetting that drum kits originated from jazz music, from Gene Krupa. Never mind how drum kits are created, but they're forgetting how contemporary music are derived from jass as well. Same goes for older drummers who said "what's with blastbeats and 32nd bass drum rolls." Sure, metal's not really mainstream yet, but it takes a lot of dedication to get that accurate timing and precision to play that fast.

Everyone seems to get annoyed about angled toms/cymbals, spaced toms, duct tapes, etc....and how some of us "grew" out of it. So we can conclude it's more of a "novice" habit, well since most of us are pretty experienced to dislike these?

This is ironic though, because you seem to have no respect for double bass music. The thing is that this is how metal drumming works. I think that's a very unfair comment what you techer said. Of course you're probably not HIRED for what you can do with your feet, but that's because generally drummers aren't HIRED to do metal, it's much more of a band-orientated genre. I've explained this before, the reason metal drumming has more to do with your feet than your hands is very simple, rhythmically it means you can play complex and fast beats on the bass drum whilst still retaining a beat on the cymbals and snare. It's the backbone of metal music. Most of these drummers can still do a mean fill on their hands and combining hands and feet as well. But i really don't see what you have against it. Just because you see the bass drum as a beats 1 and 3, doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with playing it to it's full potential.

[trysthedrummer]

Maybe the teacher was not a drumset teacher, more of a hand percussion sort of guy.

[T.Underhill]

Anyways, back to the topic, my prejudices are..

1.) Double bass pedal, or double bass setup. In general I don't like how a metal double bass lick sounds. Sometimes these are the same guys that lock their hihats tight, and thrash all around their kits. Hmm... maybe this is just a prejudice against all metal music, the more I think about it?

2.) Drummers that are lead singers. I'm ok with doing backing vocals, but some bands that have drummers as lead singers rub me the wrong way. When I watch a drummer sing, it's hard to follow the rhythm of their motions.



I have double pedals and kits and I don't play metal the moment. Just because a person owns a double pedal or double bass kit doesn't mean anything really, it just means they can use that pedal for any type of music. I'd like to think of my use as "tasteful" so don't assume anything.

What does a drummer's motion have anything to do with you?? If it sounds good what's the problem. Here's a drummer who is the lead singer and is damn good.http://www.randymcallister.com/

[CavGator]

i absolutely HATE when people have mix and match drums. it kills me to see a certain brand of kit, with a random tom(s) or kick of another kit added on to make it bigger.
it looks tacky in my eyes.

i recently played a high school battle of the bands and 80 percent of the drummers there had mix-match kits. i was going crazy.

C'mon. Not all kids have daddies that can shell out the $$$$$ for a matched kit. If this was a professional's kit, I would also raise eyebrows -- until I hear him/her play. If the drummer is a master, then I could care less if he plays on trash cans.

Ditto with with what one poster called "stupid drum configurations." Robert Wyatt, a tremendous drummer for the Soft Machine, a late 1960s jazz fusion/prog band, had a different drum configuration every night.

Bill Bruford's last configurations had all the drums flat and of equal height to this snare, thereby replicating a tympani effect. The pitches were not sequential, either, which gave him a variety of interesting patterns, but precluded him from doing the tired, overused sequential "roll around the kit."

I am of the elegant, minimalist, efficient school of drumming. When I see some drummer pounding the drums with every ounce of his weight, I immediately think of the Travis Barker-type Bonham Wannabee -- all power with no touch, dynamics or finesse (Bonham had these in spades; wannabees usually lack it). For me, there is nothing finer than to see a drummer glide effortlessly over his/her kit, completely mastering every piece, without having to call attention to him/herself with hystrionic flailing of the limbs and other nonsense that has little to do with drumming. Some folks like the hystrionics; I tend to see through those who try to make up for their lack of chops with showmanship.

IOW, if you are going to be a showman, you better have SERIOUS chops. If noise is your biggest asset, I'll leave the club. Getting too old to be impressed by the pseudo Rock God persona so many want to display...

his is ironic though, because you seem to have no respect for double bass music. The thing is that this is how metal drumming works. I think that's a very unfair comment what you techer said. Of course you're probably not HIRED for what you can do with your feet, but that's because generally drummers aren't HIRED to do metal, it's much more of a band-orientated genre. I've explained this before, the reason metal drumming has more to do with your feet than your hands is very simple, rhythmically it means you can play complex and fast beats on the bass drum whilst still retaining a beat on the cymbals and snare. It's the backbone of metal music. Most of these drummers can still do a mean fill on their hands and combining hands and feet as well. But i really don't see what you have against it. Just because you see the bass drum as a beats 1 and 3, doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with playing it to it's full potential.

I personally don't care for metal that much OR the double bass style, primarily because I prefer to use my left foot for the high hat. That said, I certainly can respect those who are deft with the double bass pedal. I enjoy listening and watching Jeff Campitelli, Joe Satriani's drummer, who is a great double bass drummer, yet still embodies the elegant, efficient style I prefer.

[jwildman]

For me its pretty much only if they have bad hardware. Like if their head is like caved in or if they play zildjian ZBTs

[eddiehimself]

I personally don't care for metal that much OR the double bass style, primarily because I prefer to use my left foot for the high hat. That said, I certainly can respect those who are deft with the double bass pedal. I enjoy listening and watching Jeff Campitelli, Joe Satriani's drummer, who is a great double bass drummer, yet still embodies the elegant, efficient style I prefer.


It's funny you should say that actually because i'm not too bad on the ol double bass pedal, but i would say that i can hold my own on the hihat pedal too, it all depends on where the mood and the music takes me :)

[masonni]

What I can't stand are people trying to take my stuff off stage while I'm tearing down. Of course I take my cymbals off of the stands before taking the stands off of the stage. That's just common sense! Especially since I mount my 24" ride and 16" crash on splash booms off of a stand with a 19" crash already on it. I'm not going to risk having some impatient musician or soundguy move my gear. That is, unless they approach calmly, they're nice about it, and offer to help politely. Then, I'll find something that I can trust them with ("Here's my throne...").

Luckily, I don't deal with this too much anymore, as my bands usually headline or play exclusively.

I don't come up to people all pissy and ask about moving gear, I will be nice about it. But I think it's incredibly rude, and inconsiderate to the people waiting to go on stage if you waist time like that.

Common sense is having a change-over that takes 15 min. and not 30 because the drummer is taking his cymbals off the stands. It's faster to move the stand off stage and take the cymbals off when he/she is out of the way. It doesn't matter if you have 2 cymbals or 20, it just takes too long to put them away while another band is waiting to go on.

I used to have 3 cymbals all on one stand like you, but I still picked up the stand and moved it out of the way for the guy going on stage after me.

[metal overlord]

I'm kind of amazed by how many people are prejudice against metal/double pedal.
You'd think people would have a little more respect than that, being prejudice against it makes you seem quite ignorant. I do see alot of metal kinds going to a sweet 4 piece and saying "wheres the rest of it" but all to his own right? I mean, not everyone is going to play and like the same stuff, some people have differant tastes, by metal, blues, jazz, reggae, anything. I actually like seeing and hearing differant styles that are not the same as my own. I appriciate it, and try to incorperate it into my style.
But im not everyone, I guess. Maybe the metal haters just ran into the wrong kind of crowd, and help a grudge against them but stereotyped it across everyone.

[Pretzel Logic]

I'm kind of amazed by how many people are prejudice against metal/double pedal.
You'd think people would have a little more respect than that, being prejudice against it makes you seem quite ignorant. I do see alot of metal kinds going to a sweet 4 piece and saying "wheres the rest of it" but all to his own right? I mean, not everyone is going to play and like the same stuff, some people have differant tastes, by metal, blues, jazz, reggae, anything. I actually like seeing and hearing differant styles that are not the same as my own. I appriciate it, and try to incorperate it into my style.
But im not everyone, I guess. Maybe the metal haters just ran into the wrong kind of crowd, and help a grudge against them but stereotyped it across everyone.

Just to be clear, I'm not a fan of metal. I have respect for the guys that play it well, but nothing about it really appeals to me. Anyway, 75% of metal drummers I have met fit into the negative metalhead drummer stereotype. You know, the kind that closes their hi-hat for the whole show (or has it welded shut), destroys their drum heads with their gorilla grip, plays very distasteful 32nd notes on the double pedal at inappropriate times, and doesn't really listen to what's going on around them.
At times metal drumming is GREAT (a la Herb or Brain from Primus), but most of the time when I see a drummer that looks like a metalhead I will just think 'ugh' from negative experiences I have had watching them in the past...
Point being, welcome to the human mind. We all form stereotypes about things from past negative/positive experiences.

FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, a large percentage of metal drummers have a tendency to play less musically. Note that I am not making a sweeping generalization about ALL metal drummers, but I just feel like for every 1 good metal drummer I see, there are 3 kids trying to be Joey Jordison.

[bobdadruma]

Check out how this Rank Amateur sets up his kit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPu6oJz88kw&feature=related

[caddywumpus]

I don't come up to people all pissy and ask about moving gear, I will be nice about it. But I think it's incredibly rude, and inconsiderate to the people waiting to go on stage if you waist time like that.

Common sense is having a change-over that takes 15 min. and not 30 because the drummer is taking his cymbals off the stands. It's faster to move the stand off stage and take the cymbals off when he/she is out of the way. It doesn't matter if you have 2 cymbals or 20, it just takes too long to put them away while another band is waiting to go on.

I used to have 3 cymbals all on one stand like you, but I still picked up the stand and moved it out of the way for the guy going on stage after me.

That works for you. Great! I mean it, seriously. It just doesn't fly with me...

It's not wasting time, as the sound guy is usually moving mics and cables from around my kit in the 90 seconds or so it takes to put those 3 cymbals away. I've seen the way other people handle equipment that isn't their own, and I'm not going to let them touch my stuff.

As an example, have you seen what people do to house kits? There's all sorts of tom rub, snare rub, and cymbal rub from people trying to adjust the drums and cymbals quickly and not caring about them. Also, I've seen quite a few cymbal stands and drums that were moved "out of the way" get toppled over by the carelessness of the people who moved them, or the other musicians trying to get on stage. You can call me rude or inconsiderate all you want, but I made an investment in my instruments, and I care about their longevity more than the couple of precious minutes shaved off of the stage turnover time.

[bobdadruma]

I agree with you Caddy. My cymbals go in the bag before my kit gets moved! This happened to me last night at Toads Place in New Haven. I had to nicely tell the sound man to back off for thirty secs so I could get things ready to be moved. I was off in about three mins!

[caddywumpus]

Check out how this Rank Amateur sets up his kit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPu6oJz88kw&feature=related

Oh, man! That guy's a total waste of a drummer! You can tell by the way his toms and cymbals are angled, and by hard he hits the drums! He must totally not care about his instrument. Looks like we'll never hear anything about HIM in the drumming magazines...

...oh, and that yellow color? EW!!! What is up with THAT?!?!?!?!?

[Ethan01]

My opinion (AND YES IT'S ONLY AN OPINION) i get from metal is that it is a statement against music. It's analogous to punk being a statement against rock&roll of the 1970s. Music is melody and rhythm. Sometimes, like in rap (which i enjoy), it is much more rhythmic than melodic. And vice-versa. Metal is a blanket of noise and distortions with intense drum rhythms, and a screaming singer. It's a statement against both melodies and rhythms.

This is my opinion, i hope everyone can respect people having opinions, even if it's over the internet. Maybe i've listened to the wrong metal? Quite possible. I've seen people hate jazz because they've listened to the stuff they play in elevator (which i don't enjoy either). I've seen people hate pop music because they've heard the latest britney spears song. I do enjoy some Metallica, one of my favorite songs is Fuel, but I'm assuming they are on the softer side of metal.

[Funky Crêpe]

there are some people on this thread that i hold in high regard due to their wealth of experience and knoweledge, which comes out through their comments...
but some of these people are way too judgemental!.....as dave weckl said, "don't put something somewhere because it looks good, do whats comfortable!"
now i would'nt want that set up, and i hav'nt heard the owener play but i'm sure he is better than some people on here giving out about his kit....
and i believe that steve gadd's snare is tilted towards the throne, please correct me if i am wrong.
cheers

[Funky Crêpe]

Check out how this Rank Amateur sets up his kit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPu6oJz88kw&feature=related

very nice comment by the way!....(not sarcastic)

[drumac]

I think my biggest prejudice is when I hear a soundcheck, and tuning issues are obvious. I think if you are doing well enough to have people pay money to see you, you should be able to tune drums!

[SGT_Drummer]

It's not wasting time, as the sound guy is usually moving mics and cables from around my kit in the 90 seconds or so it takes to put those 3 cymbals away. I've seen the way other people handle equipment that isn't their own, and I'm not going to let them touch my stuff.

As an example, have you seen what people do to house kits? There's all sorts of tom rub, snare rub, and cymbal rub from people trying to adjust the drums and cymbals quickly and not caring about them. Also, I've seen quite a few cymbal stands and drums that were moved "out of the way" get toppled over by the carelessness of the people who moved them, or the other musicians trying to get on stage. You can call me rude or inconsiderate all you want, but I made an investment in my instruments, and I care about their longevity more than the couple of precious minutes shaved off of the stage turnover time.

i find myself in the middle of both points of view on this. on one hand yes, get your crap and get off stage. it's professional courtesy to a fellow drummer or band. on the other hand, i have put a LOT of money into my kit and i don't want joe schmo with his hands all over it messing with my stuff. the way i resolve that is that my kit will on stage while i help my band mates with thier guitars and amps as well as the other bands guitars and amps get on stage. then everyone from both bands (9 times out of 10 i knew everyone in the other band quite well) grabs my drums RESPECTFULLY and moves them to a back room where i tear them down myself. it's not really THAT big a deal to leave your cymbal on a stand while you move it 20 feet to another room. (at least this was before i had a rack and i haven't played any shows since i've had the rack) keep in mind, that the main venue i played was in a small town and the 'back room' i keep referreing to was the pool room on the other side of the crowd. so i had to move my stuff THROUGH the crowd. (like i said, small venue) anyways, this always seemed to work with me and the only problems we ever ran into was the OTHER drummer spending 30 minutes getting his 5 piece (yup, 5) set up right.

on the up side, and i hesitate to say this because i make a very conscious effort to remain humble, i had a handful of friends and fellow aspiring drummers that absolutely loved watching me play. the only reason they went to shows would be to watch me. kinda like a hybrid roadie / groupy without the drugs or sex (they were all dudes). anyways, they were more than happy to help me set up and tear down any time i asked. and i had given them a good number of lessons and tips and knew them all to the point that they knew what i liked and what i didn't like when handling my drums. so that made the transition periods even quicker.

[bobdadruma]

Let us now look at how Max set his kit up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y8Il-yRz_A&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHSBNv-IFrA&feature=related

[caddywumpus]

i find myself in the middle of both points of view on this. on one hand yes, get your crap and get off stage. it's professional courtesy to a fellow drummer or band. on the other hand, i have put a LOT of money into my kit and i don't want joe schmo with his hands all over it messing with my stuff.

I can see both ways about it too. I feel as though I don't "take my time" getting off stage (I timed it tonight--3:30 to put the cymbals away AND get the rest of the kit off the stage, without rushing at all), so it's a non-issue for me, I think. I just don't appreciate the pressure that other people might put on me to hurry, whether it be telling me to hurry, offering to help in a hurried voice, or worst of all--loading their drums onto the stage while my set is still being taken down! THAT just gets in the way and slows everything down...

[eddiehimself]

My opinion (AND YES IT'S ONLY AN OPINION) i get from metal is that it is a statement against music. It's analogous to punk being a statement against rock&roll of the 1970s. Music is melody and rhythm. Sometimes, like in rap (which i enjoy), it is much more rhythmic than melodic. And vice-versa. Metal is a blanket of noise and distortions with intense drum rhythms, and a screaming singer. It's a statement against both melodies and rhythms.

This is my opinion, i hope everyone can respect people having opinions, even if it's over the internet. Maybe i've listened to the wrong metal? Quite possible. I've seen people hate jazz because they've listened to the stuff they play in elevator (which i don't enjoy either). I've seen people hate pop music because they've heard the latest britney spears song. I do enjoy some Metallica, one of my favorite songs is Fuel, but I'm assuming they are on the softer side of metal.

Yes, i think you have listened to the wrong types of metal. Or you just don't listen to it enough. To be honest i am actually surprised that people who are musicians can actually think this at all. I'd have thought that you'd have a bit more respect for different types of music than the average joe listens to whatever crap is pumped out of the top 40 chart or whatever. This is completely ridiculous. Metal is one of the most rhythmic forms of music there is and if you actually LISTENED to it you might just hear that. It's funny we should also be talking about jazz because don't you think i could say exactly the same thing about having no rhythms? Obviously the rhythm is there, it's just hard to pick up at first. I'm surprised you can actually listen to a jazz song and be able to see the rhythm but not be able to see the rhythm with a metal song that's a lot easier to hear if you just listen to it.

Also what's up with metal being about "screaming?" A lot of metal has melodic vocals too actually. Besides, a lot of the time the melody isn't contained within the vocals, just because you're used to conventional music being about the singer making the melody line doesn't mean it HAS to be that way. A lot of "screamo" bands put the melody line in the actual guitars, which harmonise in very complex manners and make "walls of noise" which if you actually listen to it, make up very nice sounding chord progressions and melodies on their own, without the need for any singing.

[jer]

I've seen the way other people handle equipment that isn't their own, and I'm not going to let them touch my stuff.


This is pretty much the logic behind me putting my cymbals away first. When someone is so anxious to get on stage, I really feel as though their focus is on getting their stuff set up, and not on making sure my equipment is being handled in a caring fashion.

Yes, when I played a 7 piece kit, it would have been rude of me to take my 10+ cymbals off their stands before moving stuff out of the way and I did move pieces off stage before tearing them down first. I used to break a lot more cymbals in those days, and I can never help wonder if some cracks started as flea bites developed by having things get hap-hazardly tossed back stage.

(Don't get me wrong, I take full responsibility for cymbals I've damaged, I have no problem admitting my technique may have been off - but it's been a few years since I've broken a cymbal and I can't help but think that by taking better care of my gear, it lasts longer.)

I play with 2 crash, hats and a ride live and have set up and tore own my kit more than I'd like to count and have developed a system that focuses on efficiency. I can totally agree that there are some drummers who take way too long to get things moving, but I believe that's got to do with a level of professionalism that comes with time and experience.

[bobdadruma]

I can see both ways about it too. I feel as though I don't "take my time" getting off stage (I timed it tonight--3:30 to put the cymbals away AND get the rest of the kit off the stage, without rushing at all), so it's a non-issue for me, I think. I just don't appreciate the pressure that other people might put on me to hurry, whether it be telling me to hurry, offering to help in a hurried voice, or worst of all--loading their drums onto the stage while my set is still being taken down! THAT just gets in the way and slows everything down... It takes you and I between 3 and 5 mins to get off stage. I think that is a reasonable amount of time! That leaves the next drummer 15 mins or so. When I play a multiple band gig (and I play about 20 of them through out the year) 15 to 20 mins is the acceptable norm for changeover. I don't have a problem with allowing the last drummer 3 to 5 mins to vacate. It only takes me 5 mins to move my partially set up kit to the stage and be ready to play.
People tend to think that because you hit drums and cymbals to play them, They are bulletproof! We all know that this is not true!

[TheGroceryman]

Yes, i think you have listened to the wrong types of metal. Or you just don't listen to it enough. To be honest i am actually surprised that people who are musicians can actually think this at all. I'd have thought that you'd have a bit more respect for different types of music than the average joe listens to whatever crap is pumped out of the top 40 chart or whatever. This is completely ridiculous. Metal is one of the most rhythmic forms of music there is and if you actually LISTENED to it you might just hear that. It's funny we should also be talking about jazz because don't you think i could say exactly the same thing about having no rhythms? Obviously the rhythm is there, it's just hard to pick up at first. I'm surprised you can actually listen to a jazz song and be able to see the rhythm but not be able to see the rhythm with a metal song that's a lot easier to hear if you just listen to it.

Also what's up with metal being about "screaming?" A lot of metal has melodic vocals too actually. Besides, a lot of the time the melody isn't contained within the vocals, just because you're used to conventional music being about the singer making the melody line doesn't mean it HAS to be that way. A lot of "screamo" bands put the melody line in the actual guitars, which harmonise in very complex manners and make "walls of noise" which if you actually listen to it, make up very nice sounding chord progressions and melodies on their own, without the need for any singing.

What i really dont understand about cookie monster type music is WHY they need the "singer." I mean, like you said, the instrumental parts are complex, and well-thought out. I dont deny that part of their songs. To me, the "vocal" parts are just pointless, they dont add anything to the song...they just make it hard to listen to... in my opinion.

like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc

I mean it starts off interesting, then it just doesnt work for me...could you explain the reason for the vocal part? And im not kidding, i really would like to know.

[bobdadruma]

What i really dont understand about cookie monster type music is WHY they need the "singer." I mean, like you said, the instrumental parts are complex, and well-thought out. I dont deny that part of their songs. To me, the "vocal" parts are just pointless, they dont add anything to the song...they just make it hard to listen to... in my opinion.

like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc

I mean it starts off interesting, then it just doesnt work for me...could you explain the reason for the vocal part? And im not kidding, i really would like to know. I agree, There is many a metal song that I have listened to and I liked the music but hated the vocal part. My son is into Metal and he likes the vocal parts. I discussed this subject with him a while back. He couldn't give me an answer other than he liked it. People who are into Metal get something from the vocals that some folks don't understand. Metal has evolved to this current vocal style and it is accepted with its fans.
On the other hand, I like the vocal style of Bob Dylan. Many people that I know laugh at me if I tell them that! How about the vocal style of Robert Plant? Some people could say the same about Zep music. I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just trying to make a point by example. Cheap Trick is another example.

[mcbike]

bass drums with full size pillows, blankets, quilts, SLEEPING BAGS! inside them.
tape on anything. drumheads or cymbals
deep kick drums more than 18"
excessive splashes
concert toms
drums with over the top lug designs that weight a ton.

[metal overlord]

What i really dont understand about cookie monster type music is WHY they need the "singer." I mean, like you said, the instrumental parts are complex, and well-thought out. I dont deny that part of their songs. To me, the "vocal" parts are just pointless, they dont add anything to the song...they just make it hard to listen to... in my opinion.

like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qc98u-eGzlc

I mean it starts off interesting, then it just doesnt work for me...could you explain the reason for the vocal part? And im not kidding, i really would like to know.

It just fits the music. Can you imagine soft, clean vocals over a song like that? It would sound bad. Opeth has both great growling and great clean singing, but he doesn't "sing" over the heavy parts. The song lightens up when he sings. It takes some getting used to, also. I used to laugh at bands like Behemoth but I love them now.
Any other vocals really wouldn't fit the song. The song without vocals in all would get boring.

[T.Underhill]

I agree, There is many a metal song that I have listened to and I liked the music but hated the vocal part. My son is into Metal and he likes the vocal parts. I discussed this subject with him a while back. He couldn't give me an answer other than he liked it. People who are into Metal get something from the vocals that some folks don't understand. Metal has evolved to this current vocal style and it is accepted with its fans.


Kind of a threadjack but I shouldn't have to look up what a singer is saying for every lyric. Some of these bands you can't understand ONE THING they're singing. That doesn't make sense to me. It's just screaming plain and simple.

[TheGroceryman]

It just fits the music. Can you imagine soft, clean vocals over a song like that? It would sound bad. Opeth has both great growling and great clean singing, but he doesn't "sing" over the heavy parts. The song lightens up when he sings. It takes some getting used to, also. I used to laugh at bands like Behemoth but I love them now.
Any other vocals really wouldn't fit the song. The song without vocals in all would get boring.

This makes sense, as does bobdadrummer's statement. I guess its just a 100% personal thing. One either likes it or doesnt. Interesting, humans are.

[bobdadruma]

I don't know about you other non Metal players, but I have a decent double bass pedal that I hook up from time to time . I can't get anywhere near 200bpm's. But I have a blast fooling around with blast beats. I see where these guys are coming from and I don't have any contempt for anyones preferred style of music, or the way that they choose to set up their Kits!

[eddiehimself]

What i really dont understand about cookie monster type music is WHY they need the "singer." I mean, like you said, the instrumental parts are complex, and well-thought out. I dont deny that part of their songs. To me, the "vocal" parts are just pointless, they dont add anything to the song...they just make it hard to listen to... in my opinion.


It's like rapping, it's not nesicerally about the vocals themselves (although in some senses it can add emotion), it's about the lyrics and what they're saying. You might have to look up some band's words (that tends to be the more modern "core" bands that have really slurred vocals like that, usually on purpose, don't ask why) but you will find they're usually very eloquent and well thought out and poetic.

[bobdadruma]

Speaking of Rap and Hip-Hop Here is a song that I like that sums all that we said here up! Look at all of the lyrics please!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAuQmJzt_q0
Here is another one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BXQRMExtok

"KEEP IT ON THE ONE!" MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS AT DW!!!

[Alex H]

I've always hated people who have parts of their kit that barely get used. For example, I once saw a drummer that had a china over and behind his head (a la John Blackwell) and he hit it once the entire gig. It actually only bothered me a little though because he was pretty short and he had to stand up to hit it...it made me laugh.

[bobdadruma]

I've always hated people who have parts of their kit that barely get used. For example, I once saw a drummer that had a china over and behind his head (a la John Blackwell) and he hit it once the entire gig. It actually only bothered me a little though because he was pretty short and he had to stand up to hit it...it made me laugh. If you think about it, He got you to watch his show. He placed that china in a precarious spot and you watched him to see how or when he would play it! He made you anticipate his moves. It was like a magicians trick. He made you look and concern yourself somewhere where you wouldn't have looked otherwise!

[DrewTheShoe]

More recently, I've come to resent hypersensitive drummers who can't handle another person's opinion, even if it is constructed in a way filled with respect.

[VedranS]

Drummers who haven't yet grasped the idea of phrasing kind of get to me. You know what I'm talking about if you go and see "scenester" shows around your town where kids play your local flavor of punk/ska/kindafastsloppydistortedmess music.
The drummers do a fast rock beat on closed or sloshy hi-hats, then do a 16th note fill around the toms, crash the ride or ride the crash for the chorus, another 16th note fill around the toms, or maybe just the snare this time, back into the verse... And it's the same story the whole set.
Throughout, the drummer looks like his arms are going to fall off because he's playing harder and faster than he should be at this point, naturally getting sloppy as hell and falling apart after the first song. The fills are the same thing every time, it's stupid, has no shape, no thought put into it, just testosterone. I keep thinking, if this drummer just realized that he could play a fill that's less dense but instead somehow helps to support the melody line (if there is one) and to shape the song using crative PHRASING, it could have much more emotional impact than all the hard hitting roundhouse fills in the world....\

So yeah, that's my prejudice, the one that I feel ok about voicing anyway...

[bobdadruma]

Drummers who haven't yet grasped the idea of phrasing kind of get to me. You know what I'm talking about if you go and see "scenester" shows around your town where kids play your local flavor of punk/ska/kindafastsloppydistortedmess music.
The drummers do a fast rock beat on closed or sloshy hi-hats, then do a 16th note fill around the toms, crash the ride or ride the crash for the chorus, another 16th note fill around the toms, or maybe just the snare this time, back into the verse... And it's the same story the whole set.
Throughout, the drummer looks like his arms are going to fall off because he's playing harder and faster than he should be at this point, naturally getting sloppy as hell and falling apart after the first song. The fills are the same thing every time, it's stupid, has no shape, no thought put into it, just testosterone. I keep thinking, if this drummer just realized that he could play a fill that's less dense but instead somehow helps to support the melody line (if there is one) and to shape the song using crative PHRASING, it could have much more emotional impact than all the hard hitting roundhouse fills in the world....\

So yeah, that's my prejudice, the one that I feel ok about voicing anyway... Just think how much easier these drummers make your playing life!

[VedranS]

Just think how much easier these drummers make your playing life!


God bless 'em! :-)



20202020

[bobdadruma]

More recently, I've come to resent hypersensitive drummers who can't handle another person's opinion, even if it is constructed in a way filled with respect. I also was shocked at how this thread came close to becoming a slug feast! I should have been the one who was angry, But I wasn't! I would have thought that others would have taken my approach to this thread. I took this thread for what it was right from the start. Simply a place to voice our likes and dislikes about drumming set ups and styles. nothing more!

[DrewTheShoe]

I also was shocked at how this thread came close to becoming a slug feast! I should have been the one who was angry, But I wasn't! I would have thought that others would have taken my approach to this thread.

Eh. People over-think things, take everything as personal. If someone comes into here talking about how they don't like my slightly-alt/slightly-prog/slightly-funky rock music/style of playing, then I'll try to change it so that they do instead of trying to get into an interwebs fist fight with them.

[bobdadruma]

Eh. People over-think things, take everything as personal. If someone comes into here talking about how they don't like my slightly-alt/slightly-prog/slightly-funky rock music/style of playing, then I'll try to change it so that they do instead of trying to get into an interwebs fist fight with them. There is an endless amount of ways to set up and play the drums. I like that about the drums! Who should decide who is right of wrong?... NO ONE! That is my answer! All of us don't agree with each other about these issues, And we shouldn't! We should all have our own likes and dislikes about drumming and we should respect each other for our differences. Otherwise we would all be nothing but a bunch of Drum Nazis! Where would that leave us?

[DrewTheShoe]

There is an endless amount of ways to set up and play the drums. I like that about the drums! Who should decide who is right of wrong?... NO ONE! That is my answer! All of us don't agree with each other about these issues, And we shouldn't! We should all have our own likes and dislikes about drumming and we should respect each other for our differences. Otherwise we would all be nothing but a bunch of Drum Nazis! Where would that leave us?

... A terrible, Facist regime in which all snare hits had to be on 2 and 4, kicks on 1 and 3, and all Jewish drums would have to have Star of David kick reso heads....
Oh the horror...

[bobdadruma]

... A terrible, Facist regime in which all snare hits had to be on 2 and 4, kicks on 1 and 3, and all Jewish drums would have to have Star of David kick reso heads....
Oh the horror... Don't forget about the concentration camps for Jazz drums and the metal drums will be on the eastern front! Of course The french Grip would be a no no!

[dale w miller]

People who set up just like their heroes especially if their band sounds like a clone of that band.

Drums that are so clean they look like they are never played and more a museum show piece.

Drum-brand fashion mongers.I agree on that one.

[Drummer.Joz]

Not so much a drumming prejudice...but it does fit in with what people are saying. We had a guy on bass come jam with a few of us one day, after talking to him a bit he told me his main instrument was the drums. So i let him have a bash around the kit where he proceeded to touch all of my new Sabian AAX cymbals (which i have spent the last months being meticulous in keeping them spotless) I was also concerned about the K custom splash, being thin and him hitting hard.....

Anyway, the next post is bound to be ".......people who are fanatical about keeping their cymbals clean"

[DrummerDavid]

I never really thought about it until this thread was posted.

I think the drums behind the head is pointless....think of the guy from Slaughter and Vinnie Appice.

I always hated roto-toms..

Recently I saw this drummer who had his cymbals way above his head. So much that he had to pratically stand up to hit it...it was all for show...which worked for the non-drummers out there.

[CavGator]

Kind of a threadjack but I shouldn't have to look up what a singer is saying for every lyric. Some of these bands you can't understand ONE THING they're singing. That doesn't make sense to me. It's just screaming plain and simple.

I tried to get around this by looking at the singer not as a SINGER, per se, but using the voice as another instrument. As a prog rock/jazz fusion guy, that is totally OK with me - in small doses. Thrash metal was not MADE for folks in my generation, just as Zeppelin was not made for my parents. Each generation has their own styles. If I bash thrash metal, then I, in effect, have turned into my parents.

"Turn that crap off! That is NOT music; it's NOISE!!"

No thanks. Feel free to enjoy it, if that is what you prefer. Happily, the younger generation prefer to listen to music with those ubiquitous while ear pieces!! They can listen to death metal, while i can listen to ELP, Yes and Mahavishnu. It's all good!

People who set up just like their heroes especially if their band sounds like a clone of that band.

Ooooh! I'm a bit guilty on that score. I recently set my drums up Bruford style, and like him, I find it more relaxing and interesting to play tympani style, rather than striking the drum facing me. In addition, I can play interesting permutations to classic songs, rather than do the same old "roll around the kit" like everyone else. Playing Kashmir is great fun with this configuration! Not to mention jazz...

It's like a teenager begging Mom for approval to have tattoos. "Aww, Mom, I want to be unique like all my friends!" Play what is best for YOU, not for the world of drum critics out there.

[eddiehimself]

I tried to get around this by looking at the singer not as a SINGER, per se, but using the voice as another instrument. As a prog rock/jazz fusion guy, that is totally OK with me - in small doses. Thrash metal was not MADE for folks in my generation, just as Zeppelin was not made for my parents. Each generation has their own styles. If I bash thrash metal, then I, in effect, have turned into my parents.

"Turn that crap off! That is NOT music; it's NOISE!!"

No thanks. Feel free to enjoy it, if that is what you prefer. Happily, the younger generation prefer to listen to music with those ubiquitous while ear pieces!! They can listen to death metal, while i can listen to ELP, Yes and Mahavishnu. It's all good!

the good thing about them is i can also put them on and block out your stories about the war! :p just kidding i actually think millitary history is very interesting and to hear it first hand what people did is even more so.

[Funkussionist]

Yay - my first meaningful post.
Please don't crucify me.

Over the years I have been playing music the only real prejudice I have developed is related to narrow minded know-it-all musicians who freely tell you that things shouldn't be done a certain way for no valid musical reason except that it isn't the way they do something themselves.

I'm all for musical creativity and I love drummers and percussionists who are innovative.

[Fiery]

I practice in a rehearsal studio which provides drums, amps and the p.a, so I always judge the drummer that played before me on the setup he leaves behind. Off course, I never consider it to be a valid judgement if I haven't actually heard the drummer, but as a lot of beginners play there, it's not always wrong. These the things that make me cringe:

- anything angled too much toward the drummer, especially rack toms and the ride cymbal, which sometimes go close to vertical;
- snare and floor tom placed too low compared to the seat height;
- heads tuned too tight, because more often than not, this means that they have been tuned for good rebound, not good sound; I have often heard comments that, for example, a medium tight snare is "not tuned properly" because the sticks "don't rebound well" off of it.

[CavGator]

the good thing about them is i can also put them on and block out your stories about the war! :p just kidding i actually think millitary history is very interesting and to hear it first hand what people did is even more so.

There I was in Iraq, no shit! Iraqis to the Left of me! Iraquis to the Right of me! Scuds overhead! We are surrounded! Situation hopeless! We'll attack...

As for the snare and floor toms (all of mine are floor toms, basically), how low is too low? Simply curious. Playing with a matched grip, I have mine low enough to provide an easy transition to the toms. Basically, I straddle my snare with my legs, with my high hat directly in front of the snare. Very comfortable!

[DrewTheShoe]

Don't forget about the concentration camps for Jazz drums and the metal drums will be on the eastern front! Of course The french Grip would be a no no!

While I find this absolutely HILARIOUS, I really think we should stop before things get too... politically incorrect.
... No French Grip... Classic.

[eddiehimself]

There I was in Iraq, no shit! Iraqis to the Left of me! Iraquis to the Right of me! Scuds overhead! We are surrounded! Situation hopeless! We'll attack...

Haha yeah i seriously reckon iraq is like the 'naam of the noughties. In the years from now, we'll probably be seeing films and stories about it and the people out there fighting right now will tell their kids one day about what they did in the war, as well as the start of the new millenium and how they watched the inaguration of the first ever black president of the united states as it happened on some tinny tv in an army tent. :)

I do know what you mean about the floor toms. My mate has his floor tom REALLY low, it's pretty difficult to get to his crash cymbal from it. I personally have my floor toms about the same height as my snare. Also i have my drums tuned pretty low, doubles and triples aren't as easy, i think the worst for this is on the kick though, the pedal just literally sort of sinks into it. Sounds great though. I guess it's a potential advantage for electronic drums but i think that there's really no reason you shouldn't be able to do em on low tuned drums, you can actually buy practice pads that are made out of a soft material so they deliberately kill your rebound to improve your technique.

[bobdadruma]

From our earliest age we learn by imitating! Is this true? The same is true with drumming! I have set up my kit in many configurations over the years. I frequently have set up and played in a way specifically to imitate drummers that I admired. I attempted to see the world from their eyes. After all, they were my mentors and that is how I learned. I kept what worked for me and I modified what did not work for me. I am still doing this to this day. I see and I hear something that I like. Or a band that Im in plays a song that prompts me to try something new. I come up with a reasonable way of playing the song that I and my band feel works. I merge what has worked for others with what works for me. This seems logical to me

[Chalcedony]

Hmmm, I'm not as prejudice as I was in the beginning, but hahaha yeah we all do it. I think one thing I can't stand is drummers hitting cymbals really hard, it makes me cringe, lol.

I use thin crash cymbals and they seem to last forever. I have never broken a cymbal, apart from some 13" HAND LATIN crash second hand thing when i was 12 lol. And yet I know people who buy Z custom crashes, biggest heaviest crashes they can find, and in a year, break 3 of them, in less than 10 gigs, and then go and buy more.

Another prejudice is.. no lie... I can tell if anyone has played my kit, because it's all out of tune, and has extra big stick marks on it. For some reason people follow through with their hits and seem to damage drums and I cant stand watching people do that to my dwumzzz :)

And yeah the wide tom gap is quite funny hahaha, I think we should all have 20" gaps between our toms. Let's start a trend.

Oh and finally, the ultimate thing when I'm at gigs and I see other bands, is when people just don't set the thing up right. Maybe it's just my OCD or something, but these kids have toms all over the place, not level with each other, ride cymbal is bashing into the drums, everything just unreachable, when the cymbal moves it hits a stand next door, gah! they would play better if they took the time to get it right :p

end of rant. Funkussionist is actually right (if you scroll down a few) :)

[SGT_Drummer]

There I was in Iraq, no shit! Iraqis to the Left of me! Iraquis to the Right of me! Scuds overhead! We are surrounded! Situation hopeless! We'll attack...

Is that like a Native American / Towel Head mixture? a new breed radical faso-islamists dirt eaters? (wow that was incredibly politically incorrect...) the question is... were the Iraqis shooting at you, or with you?

Haha yeah i seriously reckon iraq is like the 'naam of the noughties. In the years from now, we'll probably be seeing films and stories about it and the people out there fighting right now will tell their kids one day about what they did in the war, as well as the start of the new millenium and how they watched the inaguration of the first ever black president of the united states as it happened on some tinny tv in an army tent. :)

HAHAHA ROFL!! Being in Iraq currently I am almost ashamed to admit that I watch the presidential innaguration.... on a 42" Flat Screen HDTV. =D Being in an Aviation unit has it's perks, we need BIG CRISP screens to get UAV feed watching a dude take a dump! or at least that's what the bosses think. lol. proof positive that soldiers in this war have the best living conditions of any war in history. (for those military folk out there, yeah i'm a fobbit)

[Dedworx]

1. people who damage their equipment, and then buy more heavy duty equipment and break that. it makes me think, why? a good teacher will cost a lot less than the amount of heads, drums and cymbals you have to replace. unless there is a fault in the cymbal make, which i imagine is really rare in the high end brands, the answer to breaking things isn't buy even heavier ones.

2. ignorance("look at what i practiced").people who play for other drummers rather than the music.anyone who thinks their style of music is the ONLY music worth playing or listening to.

3. people teaching who shouldn't. putting young players on the wrong path leading them to either struggle through their pursuits or having to rework most of their playing later on.

[Alex H]

If you think about it, He got you to watch his show. He placed that china in a precarious spot and you watched him to see how or when he would play it! He made you anticipate his moves. It was like a magicians trick. He made you look and concern yourself somewhere where you wouldn't have looked otherwise!
That is entirely possible and I had not thought of that. However, I think that might be giving him more credit than is deserved. Maybe not. You make a good point though.

[masonni]

I can see both ways about it too. I feel as though I don't "take my time" getting off stage (I timed it tonight--3:30 to put the cymbals away AND get the rest of the kit off the stage, without rushing at all), so it's a non-issue for me, I think. I just don't appreciate the pressure that other people might put on me to hurry, whether it be telling me to hurry, offering to help in a hurried voice, or worst of all--loading their drums onto the stage while my set is still being taken down! THAT just gets in the way and slows everything down...

I can agree with that. If you can get off the stage in under 5 min with taking your cymbal off, fine. But I haven't run into a lot of guys who can do that.

And I put just as much time and money into my gear and care about it just like everyone else. So I wouldn't let just anyone help take my gear on or off stage. One time I had a sound guy drop my Ride off the stage about 3 1/2 feet. I freaked out! Thank god it didn't break.

[chocorion]

Alot of people have their own personal preferences of how they like to play...BUUUUUUUT...I HATE PEOPLE WHO DON'T USE THEIR WRISTS!!! Well, do use their wrists but look like freakin monkeys when they play the drums.

[rmandelbaum]

We all had to start somewhere. we all have done things we later have learned was not the right way to go. And it goes for life, not just drumming. We all have to learn and grow.

I know for me after over 30 years of playing and gigging, I have so much more to learn, it makes my head spin.

Enjoy the journey ;-)

[KarlCrafton]

I've kinda always been more concerned about what I do rather than what other people do.

I know my set up isn't everyone's cup of tea but I don't care. It works for me, and I like it.

If I see something that I can help someone with, I will, if it seems like the person is willing or wants to hear something.

There's stuff I see all the time that make me go hmmm, but they are the one doing it, so it's on them--and if you watch and are smart, you learn along the way what NOT to do!

I do hate it when a drummer takes his sweet time getting his stuff off the stage when someone else is next and there's a short change over. I'll usually help someone off and ask what they want off next so I can get my stuff up there.
My stuff is all marked out so my set up time is minimal, and I'm sometimes ready to go before some of the other guy's in the band.
The only time I take my cymbals off and put them in the bag is if the sound guy isn't ready to get the mic's off the drums, in that case it really doesn't matter because all the cables are in front of stands, and if you start ripping stuff off the stage, it makes a bigger mess for the next guy. And it all depends on the venue too.

The only thing that drives me nuts equipment-wise is no cymbal sleeves on a stand, but hey, if they want to ruin their cymbals and spend more money.....

[shanec]

yeh, you just gotta think before hand and give the drummer the benifit of the doubt, like in this picture you dont know if he is the kind of drummer that only plays with one rack tom maybe he just put it there to dink around with or to make the picture of his kit look fuller, and and of course different playing styles.

[groovydrummer616]

double bass drum setups. i don't know, i hate seeing them and instantly think. dugudugudugudugudugudugudugudugudug.

[Mikecore]

double bass drum setups. i don't know, i hate seeing them and instantly think. dugudugudugudugudugudugudugudugudug.

(This also goes for all of the other anti-double bass stuff here. I'm not just picking on this guy.)

I realize that a Jon Mayer gig may not require even the limited services of two feet, but there's a lot more music out there than Jon Mayer (no matter what Rolling Stone says), and it's a bit cliche to assume double bass drumming pretty much amounts to "dugadugadugaduga" and that's it. That's right up there with Animal from the Muppets.

Having played classical music AND hard rock (complete with two bass drums), I can say that there are legitimate parallels between the two that justify double kick-or at least a double pedal-beyond the concept of "dugadugadugaduga". There are plenty of occasions where Mr. Bass Drum is called on for 16th and 32nd note phrases in orchestral settings, so I don't see any inherent sophistication in limiting the drumkit to one bass foot simply because you're not hashing out "Carmina Burana" or whatever.

And THAT'S my drumming prejudice; these notions of sophistication on the part of drummers and others centered on the idea that good drummers ONLY play small kits and do as little as possible, like a drum machine with shoes. Let's quash the rumor now. Another person's inability to see the difference between what I do on a four-piece kit and what I do on a seven-piece double bass kit has no bearing on how or what I play, and screw your experience. They are my drums, I cart them around, I set them up and I play them. It's my show, and you are free to love it or hate it, but don't pretend that you've reached some higher plane of drumming just because YOU see no need for "that many drums".

I may not be a pro drummer, but I've been at this since I was eight, so don't think of me as an idiot either. I know better than to lay into a pair of kicks in the middle of "Wind Beneath my Wings", or do a roundhouse fill every four bars or take a miniature drum solo between each tune. Context matters, and drummers should think about that before they bag on another drummer's setup. To wit: I don't bring the Terry Bozzio kit to a jazz combo gig, y'know.

That's my biggest gripe about drumming. Next down from that would be crappy tuning and torturous tom and snare angles.

[metal overlord]

(This also goes for all of the other anti-double bass stuff here. I'm not just picking on this guy.)

I realize that a Jon Mayer gig may not require even the limited services of two feet, but there's a lot more music out there than Jon Mayer (no matter what Rolling Stone says), and it's a bit cliche to assume double bass drumming pretty much amounts to "dugadugadugaduga" and that's it. That's right up there with Animal from the Muppets.

Having played classical music AND hard rock (complete with two bass drums), I can say that there are legitimate parallels between the two that justify double kick-or at least a double pedal-beyond the concept of "dugadugadugaduga". There are plenty of occasions where Mr. Bass Drum is called on for 16th and 32nd note phrases in orchestral settings, so I don't see any inherent sophistication in limiting the drumkit to one bass foot simply because you're not hashing out "Carmina Burana" or whatever.

And THAT'S my drumming prejudice; these notions of sophistication on the part of drummers and others centered on the idea that good drummers ONLY play small kits and do as little as possible, like a drum machine with shoes. Let's quash the rumor now. Another person's inability to see the difference between what I do on a four-piece kit and what I do on a seven-piece double bass kit has no bearing on how or what I play, and screw your experience. They are my drums, I cart them around, I set them up and I play them. It's my show, and you are free to love it or hate it, but don't pretend that you've reached some higher plane of drumming just because YOU see no need for "that many drums".

I may not be a pro drummer, but I've been at this since I was eight, so don't think of me as an idiot either. I know better than to lay into a pair of kicks in the middle of "Wind Beneath my Wings", or do a roundhouse fill every four bars or take a miniature drum solo between each tune. Context matters, and drummers should think about that before they bag on another drummer's setup. To wit: I don't bring the Terry Bozzio kit to a jazz combo gig, y'know.

That's my biggest gripe about drumming. Next down from that would be crappy tuning and torturous tom and snare angles.


I think I love you.
That just completed my unthoughtout rant about people who do that.
Wow.
I wholehartedly agree with every sentence in that statement.

[wy yung]

This thread reminded me of a childhood experience. In the late sixties when I was in the fifth grade I lived in a town where bicycle road racing was extremely popular. Many kids in my neighborhood had racing bikes and there were many organized road races throughout the year.
I wasn't interested in road racing. I liked to ride my bike on dirt trails along a river that was near my house. There were miles of rough muddy trails.
I realized that my road bike was not suited for riding on trails. Keep in mind that the mountain bike hadn't been invented yet. I spoked the wheels on my ten speed with wider rims and I installed the widest tires that I could find. I had made a primitive mountain bike. I began to ride on the muddy trails as often as I could. I loved it! I had never had so much fun on a bike before!
One day some of the road racing kids saw me returning from one of my trail rides. I was all muddy, bloody and cruddy! They picked on me and they criticized my unusual bike. You know, the way kids do. I went home, put the bike away and I stopped riding it.
A few weeks past, I wanted to ride the bike on the trails but I didn't want to be the subject of further ridicule. One day I had an epiphany! I thought to myself, Why should I let these people stop me from doing what I want to do? I like riding in the mud, So why shouldn't I ride on the trails? I got on that bike and I rode it on the trails as hard as I could! I rode it so hard that I buckled the front wheel! I face planted in the dirt! It was the best day of my life! It was a personal triumph!
I never let anyone tell me what I should or shouldn't do again!
I don't think that I have to explain how this story ties into this thread.

Awesome post!

I understand completely.

I don't think I have any drumming prejudices. I thought about it....but no. I mean, why????

[Skulmoski]

I twinge when I see:

1) Overly flambouyant poor technique.

2) Drums set up as show pieces rather than efficient instruments (e.g. cymbals way too high).

I am personally prejudiced towards John Bonham. Love the way that guy played (GBNF).

GJS

[wolfie]

Well when I was a lad, I used to hate seeing people play with what I would call bad technique. However in my old age I have come to appriciate good musicianship for what it is. For example as a teenager I thought Ringo was SH*T now 20 years later "what a Drummer" and so ceative. Ari Hoenig, I would have snubbed his playing once, but now he's one of the best drummers I have ever seen. I guess maturity, blah blah blah....

I think the biggest Prejudice I have is Kids going CRASH, BANG, WOLLOP, and then putting it on youtube.

IT SOUNDS CRAP, OK, enough allready

get it into your thick skulls kids, learn to play first then show off.

[ace76543]

1.) Double bass pedal, or double bass setup.

Double bass originated in jazz so poo you

My biggest prejudice: any emo/sceamo/whatever band. all their drummers suck. andy hurley can die in a fire

[eddiehimself]

And THAT'S my drumming prejudice; these notions of sophistication on the part of drummers and others centered on the idea that good drummers ONLY play small kits and do as little as possible, like a drum machine with shoes. Let's quash the rumor now. Another person's inability to see the difference between what I do on a four-piece kit and what I do on a seven-piece double bass kit has no bearing on how or what I play, and screw your experience. They are my drums, I cart them around, I set them up and I play them. It's my show, and you are free to love it or hate it, but don't pretend that you've reached some higher plane of drumming just because YOU see no need for "that many drums".

that gets on my wick too. I mean how can you say that someone isn't good on the drums just because they've got a big kit, it's like saying "i'm WAAY better at driving because i race 1920s 1 seater coachbuilt bentleys instead of those huge big fast show-offy LE MANS race cars!"

[Vipercussionist]

My pet peeves are usually pointed at myself as I know what I want and sometimes it's hard to get EXACTLY what I'm looking for.

BUT, that being said:

My pet peeve towards OTHER drummers is when you might meet a drummer and get to know them a bit and they tell you that they are not happy with "this" or "that" about their gear, or their sound or whatever and when you offer some advice they refuse to change the methods that are causeing them grief in the first place, saying "I just can't change it, I like it the way it is." Well, HELLLLOOOOO, obviously NOT!!!!

I know a drummer who for some unknown reason used Remo Muffe'L's on his entire kit, top AND bottom, front AND back. Then proceeded to complain he really couldn't HEAR them while playing. (as they are so muffled down there's no OUTPUT!)

He mentioned how much he liked the sound of my kit and how it cut through the band and how did I do that?

So I told him, I'm sure the problem was that his kit is just too muffled for a live gig and it just can't compete with guitar amps and bass amps and the like and to loose the Muff'L's.

He THEN proceeded to say how he COULDN'T do THAT as it would make the drums too ringy. I think there was a disconnect on the concept of "ringing good, ringing mean TONE" so I had to just let it go.

Sad part was he was hitting SOOO hard for SOOOO many years he really damaged his hands. He had to quit playing for over two years as the pain in his hands, wrists and forearms while playing just got too much to handle. It was a bad thing for a guy who ALL HE DID for a living was play drums.

[wolfie]

Another big gripe of mine is copying, I see it all the time.
I used to know a Guitarist who used to boast about the fact he could play the whole Jimmy Hendrix live solo thingy from start to finish. WHY????
I know drummers who play try to play whole transciptions of other drummers solo's. WHY????
I don't look like anyone else, I think its futile to spend your time trying to drum like Steve Smith, Dave Weckl, or Vinne.
I spend my time trying to drum like me.

[SGT_Drummer]

I don't look like anyone else, I think its futile to spend your time trying to drum like Steve Smith, Dave Weckl, or Vinne.
I spend my time trying to drum like me.

very well put. i do agree with you but i can see some reasoning in trying to imitate the greats. take YYZ for instance, i learned the whole thing note for note not because i wanted to go to a gig and go 'hey! it's YYZ! AND I CAN PLAY IT PERFECT!" but because i learned some new techniques and alternatives to how i played other things. i still have never actually sat down in front of anyone and played YYZ from start to end, instead i'll use the techniques and bits and pieces and put them into my own style.

[The Parasprinter]

For my own prejudices, I guess my biggest (beginner) one was that I would assume less notes played indicated a less talented drummer, as if pocket/groove drummers were less talented than fast, showy, play-fills-in-every-bar drummers. I think most noobs start out this way though, so I guess it's normal, and fortunately I got set straight early on.

The one prejudice I take the most issue with is the "bigger kit = less musical" thing. I know this dead horse has been beaten enough, but I really don't get it. I don't understand why large kits get sneered at here, but ridiculous numbers of cymbals are just accepted. You're telling me you really need those 23 different plates on your 4-piece, but adding toms shows a lack of creativity or musicianship? Guess I'll just keep being a bad musician then. :-)

[whawhawha]

I don't feel like it's so much the set up or the number of pieces a drummer has in his or her kit, my biggest pet peeve has got to be technique. Without perfect technique you can't get the best possible sound out of your drums, no matter how far apart your toms are, how many cymbals you have or how high they are, anything. Bad technique just makes me go "bleh'.

[Eman101]

I don't like seeing super-high hi-hat stands. It doesn't make me think the drummer is an idiot, I just wonder why he/she feels it needs to be next to his/her head. Visual effect, perhaps.

I saw The Offspring a few years ago, when Atom Willard was drumming for them. His hi-hats were in line with his cheeks, nearly as high as his crashes. He played great the whole night, but his poor hi-hats must have felt like abused children. And he must have chewed through sticks, the way he was playing. Surely playing them on top with the shaft of the stick is enough?

And anybody with an 80's hair metal band hairdo. The moment they appear you know you're gona get lots of stick twirling and boring beats, along with pornstar smiles. :-)

[JT1]

I haven't read every reply but when I see tape on toms and when I see extreme tom angles that is when I think 'Oh god' lol.

I think tuning is a very difficult aspect of drumming. I've been drumming about 8 years now and I still can't bloody tune very well, I try, I spend lots of time on it and I just can't do it, I don't know if I can establish difference in sound very well. My toms don't sound bad but they could sound a lot better properly tuned.

[synergy]

I really dont care what any other drummer does. You want to set all your cymbals up so you need a ladder to reach them- go ahead..

Wrap your heads in so much duct tape that the Postal service is now paying you to present at meetings about how they should train their staff etc- knock yourself out...


I dont if its me personally but I'm trying so hard to stay out of any form of negative thinking- this completely goes in this thread- each to their own- the metal 1200th's note quadripple bass guys, the Jazz no one can actually work out if your actually playing a song because we're too confused or scared to ask what it is their playing cats - the 1 up 6 down / 8 up 0 down players......... do your thing and have fun.


I think we should take a step back and ask ourselves why we really care why any of these players are doing what they are doing? Unless its your job to go around and tell people how they should do things?

Personally- I feel sorry for the person who tells me how I 'should' set up MY equipment

[tezzerii]

Wow, reading thru all that tired me out!!
The underlying message I got from SGT drummer's original post (dunno if he intended it or not) was that we should maybe identify and examine our prejudices, and see them for what they are - pre-judgements - - we so often make snap judgements, not knowing the circumstances in a particular case. And we are often Wrong.
Maybe we should keep quiet until we know all the facts?

I'm as guilty as anyone of making judgements on appearances, but I'm learning to keep shtum. Like the time in a music shop, this dorky guy I knew (judgement?? :oO ) came up to me and said, "are you better than me?" (at drumming, that is) -
I was sure the answer was yes, but I managed to hold my cool and said, "well, I've never heard you play, so I couldn't say." And I hadn't, so to say what I was thinking would've been arrogant, and possibly even incorrect - I learned something about myself that day, that I often have bad thoughts, but that I can overcome them and be nice to people.

Having said that -
- tom angles,
- high cymbals (did it myself till I saw the light!!),
- sloppy setup,
- stuffed bass drums,
- thuddy toms you can hardly hear cos they're tuned low and covered in muffling.

Ok, I'm working on it - if someone asks my advice, or how come my kit is loud and crisp, I'll tell them - otherwise, I am the inscrutable one. :o)

Terry

[bonzolead]

mine are people who don't like double bass drums or double pedals. Jealous much of the flying 32nd notes?I'm not jealous i can do 32nd's with one pedal lol I just don't like too carry an extra bass drum or an extra mounted tom or floor-tom & for the record double pedals never play the same unless it's a sleishmann or something of that type of design. my main Drumming Prejudice is duct tape on cymbals............... blah.

Bonzolead

[Spreggy]

Please elaborate further about what bothers you so much about the placement of my tom.

OMG Bob, how can you play that terrible arrangement! The toms are too far! The snare isn't made from bronze alloy! Those aren't the right heads! What in Darwin's name are you doing with a plasti-block!?!?!

I'm kidding of course. When I'm in four piece mode, everyone who plays a 5 like they just got their first set of Tama Rock Stars is a newb! And when I'm back in 5 mode, the 4-players are a bunch of conceited snobs who dispense with a valuable voice so they can look like JoJo!

None of this matters, play what makes you happy, friends. If Ringo can put a towel over the toms and sell a zillion copies of the record, then by all means tape it with duct tape, put an STP sticker on your bass reso, and beat it like it owes you money. :)

4 pc snob reference photo:

http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drumpics31/jojomayerdrumdep.jpg

[MikeM]

4 pc snob reference photo:

http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drumpics31/jojomayerdrumdep.jpgSomewhere about 4 feet above the top of this shot is his china. And take a look at that flat tom and the moongel on the snare! What a hack!

[Coldhardsteel]

Slouching is not allowed in the Church of Steel.

[Pkaneps]

i absolutely HATE when people have mix and match drums. it kills me to see a certain brand of kit, with a random tom(s) or kick of another kit added on to make it bigger.
it looks tacky in my eyes.

i recently played a high school battle of the bands and 80 percent of the drummers there had mix-match kits. i was going crazy.

I have a mix matched kit, but I'm also pretty poor, and I don't really care what my kit looks like, I care what it sounds like and what I sound like.

Guys who take thier cymbals off the stands and put them away while another band is waiting to get on stage. (This pisses me off more than anything!) I don't care how good you are, if you stand up and start to take off your cymbals I want to punch you in the face! Just pick up the stand with the cymbal on it, and move your ass.... When people do this before I have to go on, I walk right up and grab the stand the dude is unscrewing, and I will ask "were do you want this?"

Oh man, I did this at my last show and realized it a few seconds later, I felt pretty bad.

[richkenyon]

Ok, apologies in advance for offending anyone, but it's Sabian cymbals!!! I have no idea why anyone would choose them over Zildjian or Paiste... I just don't understand what they are hearing.

My other prejudice is against guys that switch endorsements a lot. In some cases there will be genuine reasons I am sure, but it's disappointing when you suspect it's just about money or freebies.

[JT1]

Here is what I hate...

-Guys who take thier cymbals off the stands and put them away while another band is waiting to get on stage. (This pisses me off more than anything!) I don't care how good you are, if you stand up and start to take off your cymbals I want to punch you in the face! Just pick up the stand with the cymbal on it, and move your ass.... When people do this before I have to go on, I walk right up and grab the stand the dude is unscrewing, and I will ask "were do you want this?"

I am sure I am guilty of a lot of the things people hate, so please, no one get offended... Unless you unscrew your cymbal stand while another band is waiting to go on!

Are you referring to people who take their cymbals off their own stands and aren't sharing? Cause you know a lot of people share cymbal stands so there is really no other option. If not I hear what you are saying.

On the other side of the coin though I don't like drummers who don't give you time to get your equipment off the kit when you're finished and they basically haul everything over, give you no space to maneuver and then they continue to just stand there waiting for you to move. Now that is the height of annoyance and extremely rude. I always leave time for the drummer to get sorted when they are finished their set before I start setting up.

[Fishbones]

drummers who base others' skill level off their ability to play well known songs and grooves. even when theyre not able to create their own stuff.

if that makes any sense whatsoever...

[Sedgewick2012]

My other prejudice is against guys that switch endorsements a lot. In some cases there will be genuine reasons I am sure, but it's disappointing when you suspect it's just about money or freebies.

+1

I agree. Its especially tough when one of my favorite artists is playing for one of the smaller companies and then all of a sudden they are playing Gretsch or DW or Pearl, etc.

[Pollyanna]

Ok, apologies in advance for offending anyone, but it's Sabian cymbals!!! I have no idea why anyone would choose them over Zildjian or Paiste... I just don't understand what they are hearing.

An interesting one that slipped under the radar. I felt much the same way until a friend sold me an HH at a great price. I have grown to like it, not as I love my Zil A medium, but it's a good cymbal. I need to strike differently to the way I hit Zils and Paistes to get it singing. No idea if that's just me, the cymbal, both, or something that others have experienced.

Re: the thread, my main beef I have is about drummers / bands playing too loud for the room. To some extent it's taste, but I've seen some quality acts spoil what would otherwise be an enjoyable show by playing at ear-splitting volume ... "ear-splitting" being relative to the size and acoustics of the room.

I really don't think you have to be brutal to reach any level of intensity ... unless you play Axe Murderer Metal or Garden Gnome Annihilation Metal (or whatever ... I can never keep up with metal's sub genres).

[Geoff Tipps]

-richkenyon- Ok, apologies in advance for offending anyone, but it's Sabian cymbals!!! I have no idea why anyone would choose them over Zildjian or Paiste... I just don't understand what they are hearing.


Ask JoJo Mayer that question. I take one look at JoJo's cymbals and think, what an amateur!

[BassDriver]

- Remo Pinstripes (well, not really, I just never had luck with them)

I can't stand pinstripes, but i don't have prejudices to the person who uses them.

Dented heads are a big one, it shows the bad angle people hit their drums at and/or how hard they hit.

[Lucho]

I like this thread. Some very interesting points from people.
So far as my prejudices go:

1. I really don't like sharing my gear. I've had too many experiences where people angle my toms too much and then when I go on stage they are all dented to hell and I need new heads after. As a result, I'm very cautious about who I will let use my gear at a show.

2. I don't like letting people help me move anything, set up or tear down. Same thing, I'm really over-protective of my gear. I am fast at set up and tear down, it's not necessary for other people to help me. As stated by someone else above, I've spent a lot of money on my equipment, I should get to dictate who touches it.

I also really love seeing someone play a raggedy, dirty kit, when they are a really strong player. I feel like their kit has so much character (and probably stories) and I absolutely love it when I see this. I can also appreciate a nice clean kit, but I feel like worn ones probably have better stories.

As for everything else stated before: double bass, hard hitters, tom angles (unless it's my drums), boring to watch, or too showmanshippy to watch, etc. None of this stuff bothers me.

Music is art, people can do whatever they want and that's what makes it beautiful.

[nickg]

my pet peeve is ANY drummer that doesn't respect the tools of his trade and has crappy/sh!tty/dirty/filthy/cheap equipment covered with grit and grime or equipment that is falling apart. either respect what you are doing or go sell manure on the side of the road!!!

pride has a lot to do with how well you do your gig!

[schist]

In regards to metal drummers:

Drummers who play thrash/skank beats with the hands alternating, instead of 8th-notes on the hi-hat/ride cymbal. I'm not gonna lie, it really does s**t me.

Drummers who use what I term the 'n00b blast' constantly (as in, the 8th-notes on the snare w/ right hand/quarter-notes on hi-hat w/ left hand). Learn to develop a good single-stroke roll ffs, which will in turn give you the ability to pull off a proper blast-beat.

Drummers who tap/feather-stroke their drums when playing fast - put some conviction into it!

[Kenny Allyn]

You know one of the reasons I was attracted to drums in the first place, is simply that there is no right way/wrong way to go about it. I don’t really care how someone sets up their kit, how old it is how cheap or expensive it is. As I’ve read many post over time I have become aware that there are certain drum “fashion statements” which is honestly something I never considered, however it does make some sense, if you consider for example, the guitar/bass player that sling their axe way down low so they can get that cool “stance” even if it makes playing the instrument harder.

So if I have developed a “prejudice” so to speak (actually more of a question when I see some kits) it would be “Is that kit really ergonomically comfortable to play?”

[AggressiveC]

My drumming pet-peeve is when people talk down on people like Phil Rudd or Steve Jordan because they aren't doing tons of fills or complicated linear grooves.

"He's not doing anything difficult... HE SUCKS!"

No. You suck.

[Migaluch]

Drummers for pop artists and the like. For some reason, i get mad that these guys get to play for such a major artist and they play the standard rock beat and thats it. I just cant accept the fact that these guys are getting top of the line gigs and all they need to do is play the first thing they ever learned. I always think they should play something a little more complicated or interesting, something that indicates proficiency for the drum set.

Then i realize that their timing and confidence is impeccable. I quickly realize that i have a long way to go :D

[BassDriver]

Drummers for pop artists and the like. For some reason, i get mad that these guys get to play for such a major artist and they play the standard rock beat and thats it. I just cant accept the fact that these guys are getting top of the line gigs and all they need to do is play the first thing they ever learned. I always think they should play something a little more complicated or interesting, something that indicates proficiency for the drum set.

Then i realize that their timing and confidence is impeccable. I quickly realize that i have a long way to go :D

Those kind of drummers (like Jonathan Moffet and Aaron Spears) are awesome and get paid lots of cash for those kind of gigs...

...and don't think that because the pop song on the record has a drum machine that the live drummer will drum as stale and tasteless as the drum machine.