What would you pay??

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I was reading a few days ago that several free websites were thinking of starting to charge fees for registered users. There are a bunch that have been doing it for a while now. Some of these are for server space for such things as photos, document backup etc. With that in mind and absolutely no prodding from Bernhard, Jason, or Thomas I was wondering what YOU, the members, would be willing to pay to be a member of this site. I realize that many of you are young, students, etc., and you may answer if you wish or choose to opt of of this question as you see fit. I'm just looking for an idea. I know it isn't much but I would pay 25.00 or 30.00 USD a year to help along the way. So participate if you wish. I'm just curious. Thanks.

[Pavlos]

This is a great site for sure, but I wouldn't pay. Too many other bills already and the economy being the way it is.

However, I think a better way to go would be to have some banner advertising. As long is it's not too intrusive I don't think most would mind. At least I wouldn't. I'm pretty sure every hit brings revenue from the advertiser, but don't quote me on that. Maybe someone who has more experience with that kind of advertising could say for sure.

And I'm talking unobtrusive banner ads, not those annoying popup ones like on some major corporate sites.

[Chazz]

I was reading a few days ago that several free websites were thinking of starting to charge fees for registered users. There are a bunch that have been doing it for a while now. Some of these are for server space for such things as photos, document backup etc. With that in mind and absolutely no prodding from Bernhard, Jason, or Thomas I was wondering what YOU, the members, would be willing to pay to be a member of this site. I realize that many of you are young, students, etc., and you may answer if you wish or choose to opt of of this question as you see fit. I'm just looking for an idea. I know it isn't much but I would pay 25.00 or 30.00 USD a year to help along the way. So participate if you wish. I'm just curious. Thanks.

I already have, there is the donation button on the "DrummerWorld main page",
which I thought everyone here would have already done?

Best,
Chazz

[razorx]

Yeah. I'm all for anything that's going to broaden my drumming horizons.

[wolfmoon]

I already have, there is the donation button on the "DrummerWorld main page",
which I thought everyone here would have already done?

Best,
Chazz

Sorry, some of us are out of work and are struggling to survive to support ourselves, families and our homes. The last thing I'm about to do is donate money to anyone.

[king fail]

Sure, I'd definitely give 20 or 30 once a year to help the site along, if it was really needed.

[Drumsword]

I already have, there is the donation button on the "DrummerWorld main page",
which I thought everyone here would have already done?

Best,
Chazz

Thats what I did too, every penny helps.

[805Drummer]

I'm not sure where you read that sites are thinking about switching to a business model like that, but I'm pretty sure it was just propaganda to get you to read it (hence the site you were reading it making even more money off advertising).

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Well for one the Kodak site is going to charge now for storing photos where previously it was free. I think if you do your research you will find many sites that are changing their policy. The economy is effecting everyone. And I don't think that MSNBC would put a propaganda piece in their website to promote Kodak.

But I think everyone is missing the main premise of the question. It's not how much can you afford to donate but if you could how much would you? "...how much would you be willing to pay to be a member of this site..." was the question.

A recent e-mail from Eastman Kodak Co. didn't lead to a Kodak moment for Vanessa Daniele. It got her angry.

On May 16, the company's Kodak Gallery online photo service will delete her picture albums unless she spends at least $4.99 by then and every year thereafter on prints and other products.

That's the new rule for people whose photos take up less than 2 gigabytes of space on Kodak's servers — enough for around 2,000 1-megabyte photos. People over that limit must spend at least $19.99 a year. And customers who signed up under the old rules won't be given a pass.

805 you can start reading the propaganda here.

[Drumsword]

Well for one the Kodak site is going to charge now for storing photos where previously it was free. I think if you do your research you will find many sites that are changing their policy. The economy is effecting everyone. And I don't think that MSNBC would put a propaganda piece in their website to promote Kodak.

But I think everyone is missing the main premise of the question. It's not how much can you afford to donate but if you could how much would you? "...how much would you be willing to pay to be a member of this site..." was the question.

A recent e-mail from Eastman Kodak Co. didn't lead to a Kodak moment for Vanessa Daniele. It got her angry.

On May 16, the company's Kodak Gallery online photo service will delete her picture albums unless she spends at least $4.99 by then and every year thereafter on prints and other products.

That's the new rule for people whose photos take up less than 2 gigabytes of space on Kodak's servers — enough for around 2,000 1-megabyte photos. People over that limit must spend at least $19.99 a year. And customers who signed up under the old rules won't be given a pass.

805 you can start reading the propaganda here.

I'd spend $20 a year, maybe $25. but not on more then 1 or 2 sites.

[DrumEatDrum]

If you put "drum discussion forum" into google, you get 493,000 hits.

I'd suspect more people would just move on to one of the 492,999 free sites.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I doubt that there are 493,000 other sites, just hits on sites mentioned, but again thats not the question. Oh Well. I tried.

[zambizzi]

I'd gladly pay a small, annual fee to remain a member here. However, the unintended consequence of something like this would be a dramatic reduction of new "subscribers". While the established members of the forums know and love this place - newcomers would no doubt be turned off by the idea of paying to use a discussion forum. Another problem might be that a free alternative would arise and siphon off members from this forum.

[805Drummer]

Well for one the Kodak site is going to charge now for storing photos where previously it was free. I think if you do your research you will find many sites that are changing their policy. The economy is effecting everyone. And I don't think that MSNBC would put a propaganda piece in their website to promote Kodak.

But I think everyone is missing the main premise of the question. It's not how much can you afford to donate but if you could how much would you? "...how much would you be willing to pay to be a member of this site..." was the question.

A recent e-mail from Eastman Kodak Co. didn't lead to a Kodak moment for Vanessa Daniele. It got her angry.

On May 16, the company's Kodak Gallery online photo service will delete her picture albums unless she spends at least $4.99 by then and every year thereafter on prints and other products.

That's the new rule for people whose photos take up less than 2 gigabytes of space on Kodak's servers — enough for around 2,000 1-megabyte photos. People over that limit must spend at least $19.99 a year. And customers who signed up under the old rules won't be given a pass.

805 you can start reading the propaganda here.

Oh, okay, it didn't say MSNBC. But while we're on the subject of that, if you saw Jon Stewart's piece on Mad Money's Cramer...

To answer the question though, if Drummerworld did, hypothetically, become a subscription-service website, I simply wouldn't pay. I value this website very much, but not in the sense that I would pay for it. In fact, not only would I not pay for it, but honestly, and this goes for ANY website: Much less people would use it, and there would be many replacement sites open up, to which former users would flock.

[diosdude]

I love drummerworld's forum, much more mature and member friendly than other sites. I don't contribute monetarilly to the custodianship of the site, but if Bernhard or Dogbreath or NuthaJason pm'ed me personally and said they needed a contribution, i'd be happy to oblige them. I dunno, maybe $50 for a year? I've definitely gotten that much worth of knowledge and experience from the brief time i've been here so far but i'd like to have a title of silver "FELLOW" instead of "member".

[Deltadrummer]

I love drummerworld's forum, much more mature and member friendly than other sites. I don't contribute monetarilly to the custodianship of the site, but if Bernhard or Dogbreath or NuthaJason pm'ed me personally and said they needed a contribution, i'd be happy to oblige them. I dunno, maybe $50 for a year? I've definitely gotten that much worth of knowledge and experience from the brief time i've been here so far but i'd like to have a title of silver "FELLOW" instead of "member".

My title is Gold member. I don't know how they found out. :P I'm the man with the Midas touch, if you konw what I mean. How about Silver Dude?

Anyway, I would certanly give something, don't know what. $50.00 a year doesn't seem unreasonable.

[Pavlos]

I dont think the story on MSN was false, but I think many websites will find it hard to get people to pay for subscriptions. There's too much free stuff on the web already. Advertising is the way to go. Is this site worth a fee? Yes. Will people actually pay that fee? My guess is no. Or maybe not enough to support a full online forum.

[DrumEatDrum]

I doubt that there are 493,000 other sites, just hits on sites mentioned, but again thats not the question. Oh Well. I tried.

Well, of course not, 493,00 sites, but none the less, there are 100's if not 1000's of drummer related discussion forums out there. Just look, they are out there.

Buying webs space is easy, and then you just have to buy and plug in the vBulletin software, and instant discussion forum.

But it does go to the question: It is very difficult, if not near impossible, to charge for something that can be easily had for free.

[bobdadruma]

I knew that this day would come. The economy and less advertising have forced many forum sight managers to think about usage fees. I know that Bernhard has to shell out a fair amount of his own cash to keep DW up and going. Bless him for that! If Bernhard made a post tomorrow that stated that he would have to start charging to use his site. I would probably be willing to chip in for DW. It is to valuable a part of my life for me to let it go. I have so many friends here that I consider members of my extended family. I'm also sure that the usage fee would drive many folks out. I'm confident that Bernhard would make the fee as reasonable as possible. I would have to see what the fee would be before I made my final decision.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Well once again this is just me wondering. I'm not fishing or working undercover for Bernhard. It was after reading the Kodak website that I began what this large community would be willing to pay for a membership. But so far most of what I have gotten are all of the reasons that they wouldn't or can't afford to pay rather than post an actual amount that they felt would be worth it to them. I guess I didn't word it correctly but everyone seems to have misconstrued my original thought. I'll work on my English composition skills.

[wolfmoon]

My title is Gold member. I don't know how they found out. :P I'm the man with the Midas touch, if you konw what I mean. How about Silver Dude?

Anyway, I would certanly give something, don't know what. $50.00 a year doesn't seem unreasonable.

Maybe $50 a year is reasonable to you but sure isn't reasonable for the average kid and it isn't reasonable to someone that is out of work. Money would be better raised through sales of shirts and such. Yes, I know that has been tried and it's sad it didn't work. It didn't work because people didn't "buy" from what I hear. I think the shirts were white. Maybe they would have done better if they were black?? I say that because take for example.. concert (band) shirts are black for the most part. They sell like hotcakes. Just something to think about. I would be more likely to buy black. White makes me look like a circus tent :)

[bobdadruma]

Well once again this is just me wondering. I'm not fishing or working undercover for Bernhard. It was after reading the Kodak website that I began what this large community would be willing to pay for a membership. But so far most of what I have gotten are all of the reasons that they wouldn't or can't afford to pay rather than post an actual amount that they felt would be worth it to them. I guess I didn't word it correctly but everyone seems to have misconstrued my original thought. I'll work on my English composition skills. I understood what your original thought was. I really don't know what I would be willing to pay if I had to. If I come to that bridge, I'll decide if I should cross it or not. I also know that you weren't feeling things out for the proprietors of DW. It is a fact that Facebook and places like have also been toying with the idea of a fee.

[drumhead61]

I usually read the entire post before I answer (sometimes I do not) but I have to answer NOW...there is a place for us to donate to Drummerworld and although I have only done it once since I became a member this past August, I do INTEND to do it again because of what I know this site must cost. Bernhard is a wonder to foot the bill as he does and for what I get out of this site I feel it worth throwing in a donation from time to time, but I DO HOPE that it never becomes a pay site.

I am not saying I will not pay, but I am not positive I would either...when it is left to me to decide I am more willing to give and it is that freewill that I like about this site. If more of us (and I am certain there are MANY) gave of our own accord then it would continue on so that many others who do not give or cannot give still have the benefit of this marvelous resource! I certainly do not mind at all helping those who cannot nor will not give because this site is worth sharing.

My 2 cents

JIM

[hailhail]

There's a Celtic forum I'm on which charges £10 to join, and another which lets you join for free, but you need to pay £20 for an avatar, proper PMs, search facility etc.
So considering all the help and advice I've gotten on here, I'd be more than happy to pay.

[fromyesterday]

Anytime you put a forum like this up that attracts this many users - options open up for the owner to get some supplemental income.

It's probable Bernhard can cover the cost of running this without needing to charge the users

The best method is to give access to the content for free, keep your user base as high as possible, then sell of higher levels of service - most sites I've paid for have been like $50/year to be able to do x,y,z - but the level of content remains the same whether you pay or not.

I run a few free sites, and understand the pains, and would gladly pay a little here and there to help Bernhard - and I can do that now via donations.

-Richard

[805Drummer]

and I can do that now via donations.

-Richard

...or clicking on the ads. =)

[Sopranos]

I'm assuming a fee based site (if this were) may also include additional features and options. Therefore, its hard to say what amount I would be willing to pay on a monthly or annual basis... since it would be directly correlated with what was offered for that amount.

Meaning, if DW decided to charge a monthly/annual fee but also added features such as online lessons with MP3's and PDF notation or exclusive playalong tracks, etc. from top artists or educators than I would pay accordingly (such as $20/month). If they did nothing more than what it is now (such as hosting a forum, etc.) than I would probably be willing to pay $50/year.

[diosdude]

Well, i decided what the heck, bernhard deserves all the help we can give, just paypal'ed a donation. Keep up the great work, keeping DW fast, friendly, FUN, and FREE. You guys should also please give what you can, even if it's like 5 bucks.

-Peace all

[SGT_Drummer]

i would pay whatever bernhard asked me to pay. sure, we could all go to the other 'free' sites, but none of them are DW. alot that i have found have not been nearly as friendly or helpful as DW has been. i payed $20 for a ghostnote membership and have no regrets about it. probably the only 2 sites i'd pay for.

[elpol]

Personally, I wouldn't pay for the discussion forum > I believe that while this isn't a 'free public forum' in the true sense of the open discussion forums, places like DW, where it's essentially the free exchange of ideas, is important and vital to community building. I suspect that if there were to be a user charge here; a great number of members would filter off elsewhere.

That being said - the aspect I would seriously consider paying for is access to the videos and educational material offered on the DW site. This aspect has definite value to me and my students and I never take it's availability for granted.

[zephead19]

This site and forum has really helped me a ton. I would pay about 15-20 max a year to stay member

[Meat the beat]

Nah, I'd probably not bother...

[joshisaces]

Eh, nada

[Vipercussionist]

I HAVE donated to drum websites, but as soon as they make it mandatory, I'm outta there. Bart made his a pay for site. I guess my content contribution doesn't pull it.

It's nice that he made such extreme additions to the site (videos, teaching tools etc.), and I know they cost money. But I rarely use them, yet I have to pay for them? Well, I simply don't go there anymore. I really liked Bart's forums, but I can't post so there's no use in going.

I go to these sites for the forums, it's the interaction I'm looking for, not the extreme content. Charge for the extreme content and leave the forums open for all.

I predict the average website will be a pay for experience soon though.

[jwildman]

Sorry buddy I wouldn't pay to use this site. I do like the site but seeing as all we can do is use this forum I think its fitting that this site is free. Plus i'm just a kid and can barely afford to replace my heads and cymbals.

[lewisn27]

Why would I pay for a forum that is almost identical (some better than DW in some ways, it has to be said. On the contrary, some are worse.) to every other one out there. And most ARE free. What is the point of paying for something that you can get for free?

[lewisn27]

Well for one the Kodak site is going to charge now for storing photos where previously it was free.
You can store photos for free on a magical thing called MY PICTURES.

[805Drummer]

You can store photos for free on a magical thing called MY PICTURES.

That's just storing them on your computer. Kodak stores them online, so you can link to them on websites, and such. But there are many alternatives, such as imageshack.us or photobucket.com.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Kodak will start charging for storage unless you spend a certain amount over a period of time. I have always used Shutterfly. they just sent out a mail to all customers that they would stay free for now.

And Lewis., if your computer crashes My Pictures is History. think about it.
and would you name one of those Drumming forums that is better than DW. I want to see what I'm missing.

[805Drummer]

Kodak will start charging for storage unless you spend a certain amount over a period of time. I have always used Shutterfly. they just sent out a mail to all customers that they would stay free for now.

And Lewis., if your computer crashes My Pictures is History. think about it.
and would you name one of those Drumming forums that is better than DW. I want to see what I'm missing.

There might not be a forum better than Drummerworld, but if DW closed down, then most of its users would flock to another forum, preferably the same one. Which essentially would be the same people, different forum.

[Paul Quin]

Oh - and to return this thread to its actual topic: I find it dissapointing that so many people who spend so much time here value the service provided so poorly. I agree that if this was a pay-forum, that many would go somewhere else where it was free but considering how great this place is - and how respectful (most) people are - shouldn't we all be prepared to pay for what we get? While this is clearly a labor of love for Bernhard and for Thomas and Jason, why shouldn't they earn money for doing so? How many of us would be prepared to give so freely of our time and effort only for others to take advantage of our generosity.

Comments about not being able to afford to pay only really reveal a bias toward other priorities. Surely a fee of $10 per month for the benefits provided by this site is nothing. If everybody wanted to learn badly enough they would pay. Unfortunately, there seems to be a culturaly ingrained sense of entitlement to places such as this. How sad is that.

Paul

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Lewis, do you not realise that you've just proved Gruntersdad's point by posting back in that manner? He's a member that I have great respect for and is a genuinely kind and generous man who actually shows a level of intelligence. Face it, you're an angry kid. If you'd met me a few years ago I was much the same so for your sake I hope you grow out of it. You also know that swearing is against the rules on this forum and for a perfectly legitimate reason.

If you get banned because of what you just said, then I would support the moderators. You've just broken at least forum rules (that you agreed to) when you posted that remark at Gruntersdad; who is actually trying to do you a favour.

[joshisaces]

You know, no offense to anyone, but even though you said some stuff that is obviously against the rules and will get you banned, I must agree with some of your post...I feel for you. When I first came here, I was scolded by a lot of the older members as well.

Exactly, when we first start skimming through the forums and get advice from someone like aydee, Gruntersdad, etc. (members with a lot of experience) we don't know them and smart off to them, but as we get to know them more, we respect them even if we still do know very little about them. We come to recognize that they really are helpful.

Oh - and to return this thread to its actual topic:

I NEVER use this (whatever it is) when typing, but....... LOL!

[805Drummer]

Oh - and to return this thread to its actual topic: I find it dissapointing that so many people who spend so much time here value the service provided so poorly. I agree that if this was a pay-forum, that many would go somewhere else where it was free but considering how great this place is - and how respectful (most) people are - shouldn't we all be prepared to pay for what we get? While this is clearly a labor of love for Bernhard and for Thomas and Jason, why shouldn't they earn money for doing so? How many of us would be prepared to give so freely of our time and effort only for others to take advantage of our generosity.

Comments about not being able to afford to pay only really reveal a bias toward other priorities. Surely a fee of $10 per month for the benefits provided by this site is nothing. If everybody wanted to learn badly enough they would pay. Unfortunately, there seems to be a culturaly ingrained sense of entitlement to places such as this. How sad is that.

Paul

You know, I have to say, I disagree with you.

First off--I might be mistaken--but isn't Bernhard making money off Drummerworld? I would assume he is, because with using the ads to pay for bandwidth, you don't just break even.

And you say that if everybody wants to learn badly enough, they would pay...well, that's not true. It's the people who drive this forum forward--purely the content. The moderation is a nice extra, but the people don't have to use Drummerworld. If, hypothetically, one day every active member here decided to leave Drummerworld and start a new site, it wouldn't be much different.

And while it's true that we have a culturally engrained sense of entitlement--that's true, but it's not the only reason why we wouldn't be willing to pay for the site. Because there ARE other priorities, such as food, clothing, and shelter.

[DogBreath]

Posts deleted, and one sad little teenaged potty mouth banned. I'm sure he'll go somewhere else and complain about how he was banned for "nothing." Even in a thread that is attempting to thank us for what we do, some silly boy has to show his backside. Off now, lad. Run and play.

I know that I'm only saying what most of you know, but neither Jason nor I have taken a single penny for the years that we have put up with such nonsense, and the money that Bernhard gets for the ads on the site doesn't come close to covering what he has paid out of his own pocket. Dozens upon dozens of pro and semi-pro drummers telling the world that DrummerWorld is the best at what we do, and a few silly sods crying that they actually have to act like grown adults if they're going to hang out here. I can't think of a better way to look like the south end of a north-facing donkey.

[drummerchick435]

I'd pay $10-$20. I LOVE DW! I would hate to see it go! I consider a lot of people here good friends.

[drumhead61]

I'd pay $10-$20. I LOVE DW! I would hate to see it go! I consider a lot of people here good friends.

Here's the thing folks...if you WOULD pay have you made a contribution? I am not saying I am a regular contributor to the till, but I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and pay and for those that cannot or will not I would still pay just so that they can be here as well; DW IMO is too valuable to squirrel away to only those that can pay there is no other resource out there near the value as this!

And for our moderators....RIGHT ON TO EACH OF THEM!!!! I would expect that if I broke the rules I would either be warned or booted and not fault them at all...that is why I try to keep my nose out of the occasional poo that may come along!

To our gracious HOSTS: CHEERS!!!!

JIM

[trysthedrummer]

I definitely agree with you drumhead61, this place is too valuable, one of the best drum forums out there with lots of pro and semi-pro drummers as users. Sorry, THE best forum without a doubt.

I would happily pay anything upto £20 for the ammount of expertise lurking around here. We're all a big happy family!

[BENANEB]

the more and more i think about it, i think i would pay for this forum. its a great site, and i think i take it for granted sometimes.

[Ironcobra]

I don't think I would pay right now because I don't use the site very much. If it was late 2008 I would probably fork out $30 a year.

[Ian Williams]

I would invite more people to join the DrummerWorld Community. As matter of fact, I do it actually and passing the word around.

[DrummerDrummer]

First of all, I love DrummerWorld and have been a user for years, and a forum lurker for a long time as well. I love this site and think it's great that Bernhard has worked so hard in providing us with quality exclusive information on our favorite drummers.

That said, I know that this is a business for Bernhard. If there was no money to be made, he wouldn't be doing it. If the site was costing him more money than what was coming in every month then he wouldn't keep it running, or he would find other ways to monetize it.

The business model of Drummerworld is to create a high quality site that gets loads of targeted traffic, then sell advertising to profit. The users of Drummerworld are actually the customers, since without users, no one would want to buy any advertising.

I read a lot of posts from members saying that Bernhard is just doing this on his own time, out of the kindness of his heart. I don't know the exact reasons why he is doing this, but just looking and analyzing the site, I think it is to make money. Just count the ads on every page and you can clearly see that he is pushing to get clicks.

There are also members pushing other members to donate to the site to 'help out'. I think it's great if you would like to help Drummerworld out by donating, but your donation isn't necessarily needed to keep the site running.

I have been doing internet marketing for some time now, and I know what a site like this costs, and what it would bring in on a monthly basis in ad revenue. Without knowing exact numbers I can only guess. I would guess that this site brings in $10,000 - $15,000 per month in advertising revenue. To run the site would cost at the most $5000. If Bernhard is paying more than that then he should look for a different server company or alternative video hosting solutions.

There is also the option of streaming all his videos on Youtube channel for viewers to watch as that is 100% free, plus he would get new users who browse Youtube, find his videos, and come to his site.

Right now Drummerworld is an amazing site which would lose most of its members if the content was limited to a monthly/annually payment or a login. I myself wouldn't pay anything to use this site, just like I won't pay to use Facebook, Myspace, or Youtube. Those sites started as free resources with the business model to sell advertising to make a profit, which they are doing.

Like I said earlier, I have been a user for some time now and enjoy the site. None of my comments were made to offend anyone. I just wanted to finally join in on the discussion. Thanks.

[drumhead61]

First of all, I love DrummerWorld and have been a user for years, and a forum lurker for a long time as well. I love this site and think it's great that Bernhard has worked so hard in providing us with quality exclusive information on our favorite drummers.

That said, I know that this is a business for Bernhard. If there was no money to be made, he wouldn't be doing it. If the site was costing him more money than what was coming in every month then he wouldn't keep it running, or he would find other ways to monetize it.

The business model of Drummerworld is to create a high quality site that gets loads of targeted traffic, then sell advertising to profit. The users of Drummerworld are actually the customers, since without users, no one would want to buy any advertising.

I read a lot of posts from members saying that Bernhard is just doing this on his own time, out of the kindness of his heart. I don't know the exact reasons why he is doing this, but just looking and analyzing the site, I think it is to make money. Just count the ads on every page and you can clearly see that he is pushing to get clicks.

There are also members pushing other members to donate to the site to 'help out'. I think it's great if you would like to help Drummerworld out by donating, but your donation isn't necessarily needed to keep the site running.

I have been doing internet marketing for some time now, and I know what a site like this costs, and what it would bring in on a monthly basis in ad revenue. Without knowing exact numbers I can only guess. I would guess that this site brings in $10,000 - $15,000 per month in advertising revenue. To run the site would cost at the most $5000. If Bernhard is paying more than that then he should look for a different server company or alternative video hosting solutions.

There is also the option of streaming all his videos on Youtube channel for viewers to watch as that is 100% free, plus he would get new users who browse Youtube, find his videos, and come to his site.

Right now Drummerworld is an amazing site which would lose most of its members if the content was limited to a monthly/annually payment or a login. I myself wouldn't pay anything to use this site, just like I won't pay to use Facebook, Myspace, or Youtube. Those sites started as free resources with the business model to sell advertising to make a profit, which they are doing.

Like I said earlier, I have been a user for some time now and enjoy the site. None of my comments were made to offend anyone. I just wanted to finally join in on the discussion. Thanks.

Welcome after years of Lurking you have officially come into the pool! I do not find your post offensive in any way it is what we all know is going on...you just have a more informed scoop coming from the internet marketing side and that is great!

[eddiehimself]

I would have to agree with DrummerDrummer in this case. Advertising gives forums their revenues, that's how they work. So far i have never stumbled across a forum that requires it's members to pay and i think there's a good reason for that which is that forums no matter how good they are, simply aren't pay sites. Just like you don't have to pay to use facebook or MSN even. If you want to help out DW then just click on one of the advertising links every time you come on the computer. That's how this site works.

[bobdadruma]

If DW began to charge its members for access, DW would no longer be a "Public Site". That would change everything! It would become a private "Good Ole Boys Club" so to speak. I think that in the long run that would be a mistake! DW is the way that it is because it attracts people to it by its unique make up of guests,viewers, and members. I like the fact that it has rules that are strictly enforced and moderated. (Even though we all push the limits of these rules sometimes! Myself included! LOL!) If this was a pay site and a member who had made large contributions began to break the rules, would there be a leniency towards his/her behavior because of large contributions that he/she had made to the site? I'm sure that this would become a factor or at least a topic of discussion either by members or staff when it became necessary to dicepline or banish someone for breaking the rules. I think that DW should stay just the way that it is for as long as it can. Making DW a pay site would only degrade it in the long term.

[Bernhard]

Thanks for all of your suggestions and advise...

First of All:

DRUMMERWORLD WEBSITE AND DRUMMERWORLD FORUM WILL STAY FREE OF CHARGE.

This was never put in question here from my side!

I came to the conclusion, that webcontent must be financed by advertising. Charging for Forums or Webcontent is probably a wrong concept and a sign of a general misunderstanding of what's going on here on the web now and in the near future.

So this:
There seems to be a confusion in terms between the Drummerworld Website and Drummerworld Forum.

The Drummerworld Forum is very active, but generates only 1.8% of the whole traffic volume of Drummerworld - which is 25 terabytes a month actually.

DrummerDrummer wrote:
I know that this is a business for Bernhard. If there was no money to be made, he wouldn't be doing it

Well this hurts, because it's completely wrong. When i started Drummerworld ten years ago nobody could know, that it gets to the No.1 place and stays there now for ten years. It started as a joke - got serious - and after have finished my 35 year business life as broker i sold all my business to good hands and do this Drummerworld thing just for fun as a hobby.

Of course now there are possibilities to earn money with Google ads and also Banner Ads in direct sale. But these numbers are not increasing and compared to my former activities: this is a very small business!!!

All in all: Running two servers in N.Y. - 25 terabites of traffic a month and keep it smooth running all the time (..watch the speed) is not so cheap as one might think.

When i do calculations now - and not counting my own manpower time - then the difference between invested money and cash back would give a real nice estate with swimming pool in Spain and some very nice luxury cars. So lucky me i need no more as i already have....

Streaming the Videos with YouTube would for sure be a very cheap and easy solution, but A NO GO for a serious website to keep independence like Drummerworld. By the way: Many of very exclusive clips would be removed from YouTube immediatly.


"I don't think I would pay right now because I don't use the site very much"
- This is friend IronCobra - 2157 Posts!!!

I would invite more people to join the DrummerWorld Community. As matter of fact, I do it actually and passing the word around.
- Thanks Ian, but please not, we don't look for more traffic or members....even when we are the only website in the world saying this: I really mean it!!!!


The Forum is moderated by Dog and Nutha: Thanks a lot guys!!!

The Website is done by myself alone. The only motivation was my love for drums and the wish to show the masters of this wonderful instrument to younger drummers to give motivation to them too. A nice sideeffect for me is of course the chance to meet so many great people all over the world with my travels.
Hopefully we can stay with it for some more time. When medical heart problems come up again or motivation leaves:
Gone for ever as everything just one click away....

Bernhard

[trout]

So many people don't understand about news on the web. Here in Australia, all the major newspapers jumped in and said: "OK - the web! Let's put our news online!" Then later, they found out that they were giving away what they had previously sold - for free. So the good writers get the sack; everything is hack pieces - now, now,now. No real depth to the sories and is that a surprise?

Would I pay for Drummerworld? Well yes - if the price was right - I would. I pay for iTunes. Everybody said that Jobs was crazy - but he put a reasonable price on a valuable resource and people pay it. And Apple do it to sell iPods - not music.

Thanks Bernhard. I love what you have done and I would like to see it continue.

[Ian Williams]

Thanks for your input Bernhard. Very meaningful and profound words, regarding the essence of drums. I will stick to your request and I wish You peace, prosperity and health.

All The Best,

[DogBreath]

I guess no matter how many times we say it, uninformed people like DrummerDrummer will continue to have the wrong idea. So be it.

The main DrummerWorld site and the forum are labors of love. Period. Bernhard set them up that way, as a gift to educate and inspire, and Jason and I knew the score when we signed on to assist. It is currently the longest running gig that I have ever had, and I wouldn't trade my non-existent paycheck for anything. Bernhard is a true friend and a gentleman, and it is an honor to be on his team.

[bobdadruma]

I guess no matter how many times we say it, uninformed people like DrummerDrummer will continue to have the wrong idea. So be it.

The main DrummerWorld site and the forum are labors of love. Period. Bernhard set them up that way, as a gift to educate and inspire, and Jason and I knew the score when we signed on to assist. It is currently the longest running gig that I have ever had, and I wouldn't trade my non-existent paycheck for anything. Bernhard is a true friend and a gentleman, and it is an honor to be on his team.
When I first stumbled upon DRUMMERWORLD, My first impression was exactly this. DW is Bernhard's labor of love! I realized that DW was a special place on the web that was not driven by profit goals. The fact that DW is like it is, Is the very thing that makes DW so great!
Bernhard is our friend! Bernhard is not a businessman who is trying to make money from a website. I don't know how or where some members got that idea, Or any other impression! I have never felt that way! DW is for us! And solely for us! I know in my heart that that's the way that Bernhard wants it to be.
We have also seen this very same sediment expressed from Bernhard many times. Both Dogbreath and Jason do a fine job of administrating Bernhards goals!

[Ian Williams]

Something that I really admire from people, it is their commitment - devotion - what they believe in and You have got that: Bernhard / DogBreath / Jason.

[specgrade]

"I would invite more people to join the DrummerWorld Community. As matter of fact, I do it actually and passing the word around.
- Thanks Ian, but please not, we don't look for more traffic or members....even when we are the only website in the world saying this: I really mean it!!!!"

Being a new member, I'm really not sure how to take this. If you don't want anymore new members just close down the registration part and carry on with who you have already. You can delete my account and I'll move on. No prob Bob.

As I see it, if I were out of work, DW would be last place I would be. I'd be looking for a job.

Would I pay to play? Maybe....

Um okay I just noticed how old this thread is....oh well.

[thtst]

I know it isn't much but I would pay 25.00 or 30.00 USD a year to help along the way. So participate if you wish. I'm just curious. Thanks.

IMHO if there is a free alternative (usually ad driven for revenue) the pay for site is doomed or at least will suffer a major downturn in users, thus lowering their revenue and as such being less attractive for advertisers due to less unique visitors.

JMHO, DYOD.

[Cedwico]

If my mum would give me the money, then sure I would. If I was older and in work then I would also!

[RhythmDrums]

I would maybe pay 20$ max a year because of all the things i learn on this forum, but i dont think it would be good for the forum. I think alot of people would go to other free drum forums since there are quiet a few.

[Vipercussionist]

I was reading a few days ago that several free websites were thinking of starting to charge fees for registered users. There are a bunch that have been doing it for a while now. Some of these are for server space for such things as photos, document backup etc. With that in mind and absolutely no prodding from Bernhard, Jason, or Thomas I was wondering what YOU, the members, would be willing to pay to be a member of this site. I realize that many of you are young, students, etc., and you may answer if you wish or choose to opt of of this question as you see fit. I'm just looking for an idea. I know it isn't much but I would pay 25.00 or 30.00 USD a year to help along the way. So participate if you wish. I'm just curious. Thanks.

No, I wouldn't pay to use a forum. Bart Elliot charges for his site now and I simply won't bother with it anymore.
I don't mind paying if there's a way to DONATE, but for it to be MANDATORY, I don't like that scenario.

[sabian92]

I already have, there is the donation button on the "DrummerWorld main page",
which I thought everyone here would have already done?

Best,
Chazz

Why would you think that? Like another member said, not everybody is exactly made of money. I don't have a house/family etc, but I'm a struggling unemployed student and that's probably worse. I saved for years for my kit now, I can't afford to drop £25 on donating to a website I can use for free (not that I'm cheap or anything, I have keep a serious eye on my finances).

[Sirwill]

I feel that one of the greatest things about the Internet is finding a great site. Its even better when its within your interest. If you look at the best sites ever created they are all free. I hope that in time the Internet does not become like TV and radio were the listener/supporter is interrupted with commercials. If you need revenue get a sponsor.

[donv]

I didn't know until yesterday that you could donate to DW when I first saw this thread. I hadn't ever even read anything in DrummerWorld Site News so I hadn't seen this before either.

Anyway I wrote to Bernhard with this idea today--I haven't heard back from him yet. After reading what all so many people here had to offer to Leo in Cuba, it seemed that a lot of us have a lot stuff sitting around that isn't being used. How would everyone feel about auctioning some of our stuff off here? The buyer could pay Bernhard directly through the donate button, and when payment is verified we could ship the item to the buyer. That way the buyer is getting something more then site participation, and the sellers would be doing something more the participating to support Bernhard and DW.

If anyone is interested, I'll start with a like new 12" Paiste Alpha Power Splash. It's in excellent condition. The terms of how long something would be up for auction will have to be determined by consensus, and I suppose international bids would be unreasonable, but I think it's an auction is good option to help support Bernhard where everyone makes out.

What do you think?

[Munchdrum]

That sounds like a great idea donv. A friend of mine was telling me about the exact same thing on a hot rod forum he's a member of

[Bart Elliott]

I HAVE donated to drum websites, but as soon as they make it mandatory, I'm outta there. Bart made his a pay for site. I guess my content contribution doesn't pull it.

It's nice that he made such extreme additions to the site (videos, teaching tools etc.), and I know they cost money. But I rarely use them, yet I have to pay for them? Well, I simply don't go there anymore. I really liked Bart's forums, but I can't post so there's no use in going.


While I respect your decision ... and you've made your decision quite clear on several forums (Drummerworld, drumforum.org, etc), I can't agree with your reasoning.

You don't mind donating and you don't want a mandatory payment, and yet I have no record of you ever making a donation to the Drummer Cafe. A one-time donation of $25 (or more) gives you automatic VIP membership. If that's something you don't want to do, or can't afford to do, perhaps you could have contacted me directly to see if there's something I could have done to help you ... either understand my position or possibly find someone to pay on your behalf.

Posting your disgust with me and the Drummer Cafe on other forums, while proclaiming your willingness to make a donation ... and yet never doing so with the Drummer Cafe (at least), makes it sound like you are trying to play the victim. I'm very sorry to see that you've taken this path/course.

The Drummer Cafe's forum has been around since 2001; the site itself, since 1997. I've paid for the operation out of my own pocket for years. I eventually came to the decision to make a change, largely because people simply didn't want to make a donation and/or pay for what they used or benefited from. Loading up on a bunch of advertisers wasn't something I was personally interested in, and with today's economy, simply isn't a solution ... for me.

In order for a community to be healthy and survive, those that benefit and take from the community's resources (even if it's just bandwidth) also need to give back to the community ... or it dies. If it survives, the quantity of people using it may go up, but the quality of people and content go down ... and all at the expense of the one that created it,

[McShmoopy]

heh I'm still in school (well im technically finished) so I aint got any income coming in for myself accept Pocket Money, so I probably wouldnt pay for this site, maybe if I had a job.

[Drums558]

Just want to say thank you to Bernhard, Thomas, and Jason. I did assume that by now the 3 of you were getting some income for your efforts, I am surprised to hear this is not so. I have enjoyed and learned so much from this forum over the past 5 years that I feel a small fee would be very reasonable.

Bart, I was a long time lurker on your forum, never posted but I did register. I really like your site but didnt understand why I could no longer sign in, now I know.

DrummerWorld and Drummer Cafe have always been my favorite drum sites. Guess I need to pony up to get back into Barts site, and a donation to Bernhard should be made also.

Thanks guys,
Mike

[Crazy8s]

Since this site is very popular, and already functioning as an advertisement site for Pearl, DW, Yamaha, Premier, Sonor, Zildjian, Sabian, Paiste and so on, Bernhard and the other mods should contact the major percussion manufacturers and make them cough up the money. Right now, they are getting free advertisement and product announcements through the word of mouth of their fans here.

Drummerworld itself is advertising those makers endorsees and the products. They should be especially interested in helping out with the bills.

My .02

[zakhopper316]

i think making it a pay only site would be a horrible business decision. you would effectively lose people which would translate into a loss of content and so forth, it would ruin the forum quality in a self destructive way.

The smart thing to do would be to create new status level, for instance if you pay the optional 10 dollar join fee, you get to have a picture next to your user name (like we have now) and a little emblem or name giving you a higher "ranking" or what not. if you joined for free you would have no picture, status ect, just your user name.

You could also have a private section of the forum for paying users only. detailed product reviews, live chat option like Facebook has. turn it into a drummer social networking site for paying users. i think thats the future of drum forums, the internet needs a drummer based social networking site and that is something i would pay for.

[Vipercussionist]

While I respect your decision ... and you've made your decision quite clear on several forums (Drummerworld, drumforum.org, etc), I can't agree with your reasoning.

You don't mind donating and you don't want a mandatory payment, and yet I have no record of you ever making a donation to the Drummer Cafe. A one-time donation of $25 (or more) gives you automatic VIP membership. If that's something you don't want to do, or can't afford to do, perhaps you could have contacted me directly to see if there's something I could have done to help you ... either understand my position or possibly find someone to pay on your behalf.

Posting your disgust with me and the Drummer Cafe on other forums, while proclaiming your willingness to make a donation ... and yet never doing so with the Drummer Cafe (at least), makes it sound like you are trying to play the victim. I'm very sorry to see that you've taken this path/course.

The Drummer Cafe's forum has been around since 2001; the site itself, since 1997. I've paid for the operation out of my own pocket for years. I eventually came to the decision to make a change, largely because people simply didn't want to make a donation and/or pay for what they used or benefited from. Loading up on a bunch of advertisers wasn't something I was personally interested in, and with today's economy, simply isn't a solution ... for me.

In order for a community to be healthy and survive, those that benefit and take from the community's resources (even if it's just bandwidth) also need to give back to the community ... or it dies. If it survives, the quantity of people using it may go up, but the quality of people and content go down ... and all at the expense of the one that created it,

My point Bart, wasn't to make it seem like I'm disgusted with you or your site or to make it seem like I DID donate to your website. I've donated on other websites because the mood struck me.

I'm not really interested in anything but the forum on Drummer Cafe, the specialty stuff is great, but I'm just not up for paying for that JUST so I can post on your forum. No offense, but that's a bit much. I would gladly pay for all the cool specialty stuff you offer IF I was to USE it.

Why pay for the caviar if all I want's some peanut butter & jelly??

Someone ELSE to pay for me?? Not likely.