Are we being dumbed down?

[FunkyJazzer]

Ok, maybe the title of my post is a bit harsh, and it's not an accurate or fair way to describe my thoughts - but I couldn't think of anything else...

Is there too much information just handed to us drummers on a plate? When I read all the stories and interviews of all the greats (Tony, Elvin, Philly Joe), all I hear about is them putting on records of music they love, and assimilating their favourite drummers. Building technique with just Stick Control, Rudiments and Syncopation (Alan Dawson), and using a bloody good ear.

I get worried with so much great material about in book form, that people (including myself) are finding it all too easy to just pick up Art Of Bop Drumming and work through the comping in that, rather than do what all the greats did, just use their ears. I'm not having a dig at the authors of these books, I love them! The books are incredible. But every time I pick up a book (one of many!) I just think to myself deep down...This is too easy. This can't be right. Just reading through this book, repeating the patterns, manipulating them, trying to internalise what's already been given to me. John Riley's done all the hard work.
It just doesn't seem as...noble...if that's the right word? I can't help thinking that maybe there's a direct correlation with the amount of books and info that's handed to us today, and the fact that there will never be another golden era.

I'm not talking about a solution that would be "don't forget to do your daily hour of transcribing". I'm talking about what all the greats did - 8 hours a day of solid listening and internalising by ear, probably without slowing things down too.

I'm sorry if I've caused a stir, I'm not annoyed with all the books! I love them, especially John Riley's books, Stick Control, Master Studies, Syncopation, The Weaker Side, Mike Clark, Afro-Cuban Rhythms For Drumset, Groove Essentials, The New Breed, Wilcoxon. Books that break down your vocabulary and build it back up from the very core. I just often wonder what will help me develop my own tasteful voice more efficiently. A lifetime worth of study for 10.99? It seems fishy. And I know it's easy to say do both. But you get like 8 lifetimes worth of studying in 8 different books and it's not easy to turn your back on that.

I hope I haven't made a fool of myself.
Love you all! :D

Lloyd.

[HeadRush]

you've made some great points and I agree with most of what you've said
and especially thank you for putting it nicely haha

[GRUNTERSDAD]

The guys you mentioned were the leaders in the field, in my opinion, and with the internet sales and the like the dissemination of info is much easier and faster. Every generation should get better at any task, than the previous one, and if I understand you correctly you seem to think that the written material is easy to read and learn. Ans since I havent heard you play I can't comment, but do you play this music with feel or just strict time signature, etc. REad all you can then out it to use using just your ears.

[Funky Crêpe]

i have had enough of going through books...i have got good ones...(most recently don famularo's book), but i find i can get things by listening.
the onl thing is that i dont have 8hours to go and listen to drums and try and emulate them!....so jojo was my answer....(his dvd).,....beautiful stuff

[TheArchitect]

Ok, maybe the title of my post is a bit harsh, and it's not an accurate or fair way to describe my thoughts - but I couldn't think of anything else...

Is there too much information just handed to us drummers on a plate? When I read all the stories and interviews of all the greats (Tony, Elvin, Philly Joe), all I hear about is them putting on records of music they love, and assimilating their favourite drummers. Building technique with just Stick Control, Rudiments and Syncopation (Alan Dawson), and using a bloody good ear.

I get worried with so much great material about in book form, that people (including myself) are finding it all too easy to just pick up Art Of Bop Drumming and work through the comping in that, rather than do what all the greats did, just use their ears. I'm not having a dig at the authors of these books, I love them! The books are incredible. But every time I pick up a book (one of many!) I just think to myself deep down...This is too easy. This can't be right. Just reading through this book, repeating the patterns, manipulating them, trying to internalise what's already been given to me. John Riley's done all the hard work.
It just doesn't seem as...noble...if that's the right word? I can't help thinking that maybe there's a direct correlation with the amount of books and info that's handed to us today, and the fact that there will never be another golden era.

I'm not talking about a solution that would be "don't forget to do your daily hour of transcribing". I'm talking about what all the greats did - 8 hours a day of solid listening and internalising by ear, probably without slowing things down too.

I'm sorry if I've caused a stir, I'm not annoyed with all the books! I love them, especially John Riley's books, Stick Control, Master Studies, Syncopation, The Weaker Side, Mike Clark, Afro-Cuban Rhythms For Drumset, Groove Essentials, The New Breed, Wilcoxon. Books that break down your vocabulary and build it back up from the very core. I just often wonder what will help me develop my own tasteful voice more efficiently. A lifetime worth of study for 10.99? It seems fishy. And I know it's easy to say do both. But you get like 8 lifetimes worth of studying in 8 different books and it's not easy to turn your back on that.

I hope I haven't made a fool of myself.
Love you all! :D

Lloyd.

Self important nonsense. You have talent or you don't. You learn your craft or you don't. There isn't "more information" available today, its just repackaged in a lot more different ways. There are no shortcuts. The truly great players today have invested the same amount of times as the greats back then.

[trkdrmr]

People tend to get "lazied" down. That is, not practice eclectic styles or practice effectively. The general attitude seems to be wanting instant results. Drumming gets dumbed down enough from the outside. Non drummers have no clue how much work it takes to be a great drummer, vs a simple time keeper flailing on bronze and mylar.

[FunkyJazzer]

The guys you mentioned were the leaders in the field, in my opinion, and with the internet sales and the like the dissemination of info is much easier and faster. Every generation should get better at any task, than the previous one, and if I understand you correctly you seem to think that the written material is easy to read and learn. Ans since I havent heard you play I can't comment, but do you play this music with feel or just strict time signature, etc. REad all you can then out it to use using just your ears.

Fair enough, GD. You've made some good points, and I'm not looking for a debate, I am genuinely concerned. However I will say that in principal I agree with the fact that every generation should get better, and I know that guys like Tony were very much leaders, but still...the leaders now still can't match up to the creativity and pure originality of the leaders back then, in my humble opinion.

Also, I don't mean to say that the books are easy to learn and digest, I mean, you only have to look at The New Breed etc, to see otherwise. But guys like Tony, they didn't even have books like that - they HEARD what they wanted to play, and out of necessity developed the co-ordination to play what they heard. Or so I believe.

I REALLY want to do what you said, GD, read all I can then use it musically. But the reading all I can is going to take me a lifetime with so many great books. How do I know when to stop?

All the best,
Lloyd.

[DrumEatDrum]

The guys you mentioned were the leaders in the field, in my opinion, and with the internet sales and the like the dissemination of info is much easier and faster. Every generation should get better at any task, than the previous one, and if I understand you correctly you seem to think that the written material is easy to read and learn. Ans since I havent heard you play I can't comment, but do you play this music with feel or just strict time signature, etc. REad all you can then out it to use using just your ears.

It certainly seems that. I'm always amazed how many younger drummers have near drum machine perfect time, until I realized at least 1/2 if not more of all music they've heard from day is one is a drum machine, and the other 1/2 was recorded to click.

But to the OP point, it is interesting. When I was a younger, drum videos were just getting started, and you looked forward to finding a good one, of which there were really only a few. Now, there are dozens if not hundreds of well made educational DVDs, and most of them you can see samples of on youtube. The average person can now take lessons from the greats just with the click of a mouse. 20 years ago people would have killed for that kind of access to information.

[Disco Stu]

But every time I pick up a book (one of many!) I just think to myself deep down...This is too easy.
Wow, I always thought it was hard work getting through a drumming book.

[trkdrmr]

The average person can now take lessons from the greats just with the click of a mouse. 20 years ago people would have killed for that kind of access to information.

Yes, I would have :)

You know how they say there is no substitute for a good instructor? Well a dvd that demonstrates the music as well as shows you the printed version is exponentially quicker to learn than just digesting a chart from a book.

[FunkyJazzer]

Wow, I always thought it was hard work getting through a drumming book.

I think I'm being misunderstood. Of course it's not easy, far from. Completely conquering the technicalities of these exercises and actually making them swing is something I dream of. What I mean is in comparison to being 100% truly creative and using, for lack of a better term, extremely raw resources - like back in the day - and solid graft right from the get-go.

[Disco Stu]

I think I'm being misunderstood. Of course it's not easy, far from. Completely conquering the technicalities of these exercises and actually making them swing is something I dream of. What I mean is in comparison to being 100% truly creative and using, for lack of a better term, extremely raw resources - like back in the day - and solid graft right from the get-go.
OK, I get what you're saying. Well, I'd venture to guess that most drummers benefited from someone else's hard work at some point. The only difference is the medium in which they accessed it. They may have learned it by watching or listening to someone else, or maybe there was some formal teaching involved. We just have more methods of accessing the information now (books, video, internet, etc.)

I'll go on a bit of a tangent on this topic though. If most drummers are working from the same material when they are learning, does that contribute to a "sameness" in drumming styles? I mean, if you could take a guy who was never before exposed to music or books or videos, and gave him a set of drums to work with for a number of years, I wonder how different (or similar) his playing would be compared to other drummers.

[DrumEatDrum]

I think I'm being misunderstood. Of course it's not easy, far from. Completely conquering the technicalities of these exercises and actually making them swing is something I dream of. What I mean is in comparison to being 100% truly creative and using, for lack of a better term, extremely raw resources - like back in the day - and solid graft right from the get-go.

Well, they weren't completely raw. As you mentioned, Stick Control, Syncopation and other books were available, and those books contain most of the information contained in more modern books.

And in the past, nearly every club, every bar, and such all had live bands, where young drummers could go see someone up close. Today? Not so much. Most clubs and bars have Dj's or otherwise pre-recorded music.

[zambizzi]

I think if you're not disciplined and you don't invest the serious concentration and focus necessary, you could easily be overwhelmed by the amount of information out there.

I also think you could spend 20 yrs. on the first two pages of Stick Control and be just fine.

I guess the goal is not to think you can rush anything and just practice. Play and have fun and focus on one small step at a time.

[Spreggy]

Don't forget we have a much busier schedule than our fathers had so to speak. So sure we've got the best of the best putting books and media out there, but the time to absorb it just isn't there. So though the last generation had to fight their own tenacity or lack there of, we have to eek out precious practice time in a rather chaotic world.

What's important is that people are making music. The rest is icing. :)

[brittc89]

Too many people approach books the completely wrong. John RIley's books are great, I learned a lot of valuable stuff from them. BUT, you shouldnt just be using the comping patterns in your playing, thats not how you build you vocabulary, thats not how you gain an understanding of the music, that only comes from listening to it and playing it. Almost any exercise I ever do is not to help build my rhythmic concepts, but to work on my coordination, so I can play whatever Im hearing and whatever fits the music. To really get my stuff down, I just played so much out of syncopation using alan dawson's method, but I never would just use those ideas for comping figures. Im working on time, technique, and coordination. (Actually, to have perfect technique is to have perfect time, but thats for another discussion). Im saying, yes, there are a ton of books out there, but dont think becuae you are shedding the book your job is over. Its just starting. Im so tired of listening to people who dont LISTEN to jazz try and PLAY it!

[aydee]

This is a very insightful introspection of one's development as a musician.

Great question.

Having spent my childhood waiting to borrow the LP that my friend just bought and then when finally getting it in my hands after waiting for a week, devouring all the music from it note for note, the times are somewhat different now.

The information and knowledge ages are upon us whereby access to an overload of info is a click away. I am grateful because this has been a great time for me to somewhat educate myself, belatedly. Heck, I can even see what a heel toe 'should' look like.

I also have the benefit of having some good young drummers & musicians around me who share their aspirations and frustrations with me.

Terrific as they are..great players with great attitudes, here where I see a gap:

Learning for them, as you say, has always meant being told what to do. Being pointed in the right direction. By books, by teachers , great music education programs and that makes them very accomplished players.

But learning in music for me has 2 parts.

The first is to equip yourself with technique and existing knowledge and learn the vocabulary of your instrument. The second part is finding your own personal voice and discovering what you want to say. This really comes from life in general, from tons of listening, playing, and actually seeking musical answers from within, from mentors, or other sources of inspiration. Its more of a personal journey.

The second part is where we seem to be falling short IMO.

There is an unstated expectation that someone somewhere has a HOW TO book or a video or a DVD that takes care of any obstacle I might face in my musical journey.

This to my mind completely eliminates the joy & the hard work involved of searching for your own anwers and the orgasm of personal discovery.


In another thread Matt Smith asked his grandfather, an accomplished musician, if the musicians today could hold up a candle to the cats in his day and his anwer was very telling.

He said ( and I paraphrase ) many many more guys today are good and have their chops up there, but he sees far fewer great ones comared to back then.

The two sides of the same coin?

The pros & cons of EVERYTHING YOU EVER WANTED TO KNOW & LEARN ABOUT THE DRUMS ( AND MORE )


PS- I just PMed John Riley and asked him to share his views on this thread. should be intersting!

[Sopranos]

Great topic and excellent discussion thereafter!

The comment and subject matter that sticks out for me is whether "there is too much information just handed to us drummers on a plate". I don't think so and here's why:

Those who are publishing these materials (for the most part) are, in fact, the past greats who have mastered their craft in a unique way/feel. It only makes sense that they profit from the time they spent with their instrument and in turn give others the opportunity to learn from it.

I think the key word for me is opportunity..... meaning, not that long ago a kid in the outskirts of undefined countries didn't really have the opportunity to learn proper stick control/technique/etc from local drum instructors. These kids would not really have the opportunity to learn the instrument the correct way.... we have come a long way even since the books and DVD's. Today, someone on the other side of the world can sign up for completely live online drum lessons (such as www.mikeslessons.com - which by the way, this is in no way a sales pitch) and have the opportunity to learn from one of the greats - an opportunity they wouldn't have had otherwise.... now they can get top of the line instruction for $20 (US) a month.... obviously creating opportunity for more people to learn and afford it.

So while it seems like these materials are being handed to us on a golden platter (and really they are) - when you have local drum lessons offered down the street and local guitar centers on every other block of hugely populated areas... but think about those who are in areas that don't have "too much information handed to them on a plate". Those greats you speak of (in large part) had the opportunity to take professional lessons... just because they didn't have DVD's and such they still had instruction.

I definitely see your point and it does appear to be "dumbed down" a bit but thats cause there is an overload of information in our particular geographic region.... not everyone has that luxury.

[Wavelength]

The way I see it, instruction books are just collections of materials that have previously been handed from teachers to students face-to-face. Back in the day more people took lessons, because literature wasn't as abundant as it is today, but because we have a wealth of information available, today's teachers have nearly endless amounts of material to work through with their students.

By the way, Tony Williams didn't learn his chops and style just by ear. He studied extensively with Alan Dawson, who happened to have a strong belief in Syncopation interpretations. Learning and teaching from books is nothing new. I believe that books are a great asset; they facilitate learning the fundamentals of any given topic, and it's up to the students himself to use his ears and his brain to come up with the rest.

[Deltadrummer]

Great posts guys.

I often think of Beethoven thumbing through the Liber Usualis to find the plainchant. Now you can just get a CD and hear it. Would he have been able to read those chants? He didn't have Grout back then. Beethoven had books of keyboard music from Bach, Scarlatti and Handel, so he played through them if he wanted to hear the music. Where as I can just pick up a CD and plug in. Beethoven had no way nearly as wide ranged a listening pallate as I. But there he is, the greatest composer that ever lived, and here I am bucking to be the greatest poser that ever lived position. But even that position is so highly contended these days.

There is a down side to all of this in that now that all this information is out there, you as a drummer are expected to know it, esp as a teacher. I am going through Steve Fidyk's book on Jazz Independence and Claus Hessler's book on OHP and they are kicking my ass, man.

Back in the day we had Morello, Max, Buddy and Tony and they were awesome and you can learn about what they were doing and take some of that into your playing. Now you see these guys like Tommy Lang and Virgil Donati and I think, "I'll never get there." I would hate to be a kid groing up having to think that you have to play like these guys to be a successful drummer. You don't have to be "that good" to be a successful drummer, though it would be nice. The books give you some insight into exactly what you need to know to be sucessful at your craft.

[Crazy+Hands]

People tend to get "lazied" down. That is, not practice eclectic styles or practice effectively. The general attitude seems to be wanting instant results. Drumming gets dumbed down enough from the outside. Non drummers have no clue how much work it takes to be a great drummer, vs a simple time keeper flailing on bronze and mylar.

You read my mind trick, non-musicians/musically inclined people really have no idea what it takes not just to be a good drummer but how much effort, talent, and TIME it takes to make music of any kind...its just not within their realm of understanding. Just like how I can never comprehend how people can work IT jobs for 8 hours a day sitting down the whole time maintaining networks, i could never allow myself to be in that position. Its not that I dont respect their abilities, its just that my head would probably explode trying to comprehend all of that technical crap they need to do their job... the same thing that happens when someone with no musical background watches Jojo myer or Terry Bozzio or any of the elite drummers out there.

In no way is drumming dumbed down by all the information out there about it, if anything the bar is being raised even higher than ever before, and new technology (AXIS pedals, electronics, etc) has and will open up many new possibilities for everyone. The playing field is so much more level than it was 5 or 10 years ago...

[mrchattr]

Most of the great drummers had a lot of opportunities available to them that the average joe stickpack doesn't today. First of all, the scene was very different back then. A lot of underage kids could sneak into bars and see what was going on. The great drummers were all located in a few central locations (most notably NYC), and if you wanted to play jazz, you went to one of those places. Jam sessions went all night, and people were encouraged to get up and play. Also, according to Miles' autobiography, it was pretty common for an older musician to take a younger guy under his wings, and sit and chat with him about music, show him stuff, and get him up on stage.

Now you don't have that. But, instead of all of that, you have books, DVDs, clinics, and private instructors. You can't go to 42nd Street and wander the clubs and in one night see Art Blakey, Buddy Rich, and Philly Joe Jones, then go and sit in with Bud Powell for a few songs, all within walking distance of each other.

On one hand, it took a lot more work back then to get into that scene than it does to buy a DVD. On the other hand, a lot of those guys, once they got into the scene, were basically carried along, and didn't have to keep pushing themselves. They all pushed each other. But because of that, you also have to see that it takes a lot more self-motivation and dedication to sit and work through a book or DVD by yourself, with no one really pushing you.

I don't think it's easier, or harder. I just think it's different.

[G123]

I'd say that the core of this discussion is that there is really no substitute for listening and playing. Alot. But, I believe there's always room to improve your drum vocabulary, regardless of how that knowledge comes to you; teacher, book, DVD or good ol' playalong. Your own voice will only develop with repitition and internalization of any and all styles. A lifetime of experience can't be learned from a book, but it don't hurt to hear what that lifetime has to offer you. Great thread for finding your own musical voice!

[John Riley]

John Riley here:

This is a very interesting, but somewhat perplexing, discussion.

If you even knew that the drum set existed before there were recordings, not to mention books, DVDs and the internet, the only way to learn how to play the drum set was: you had to see someone doing it in person. Unless you happened lived along the Mississippi, and could hear Baby Dodds on a riverboat, your odds were pretty long.

Of course, having access to information is helpful and we have more access than ever before; I am grateful for it. The result is that people everywhere are able to get good information, from reliable sources, so it's easier for more people to achieve a high level of competency then it was in the past.

Achieving a high level of competency is different from making a musical statement or finding your own voice. Living life, understanding music as a whole - not just being dexterous on the kit - and getting a lot of guidance from and experience playing with people more advanced than you are the critical components that lead to wise musical decisions once the basic skills are solid.

Recordings, books and DVDs offer us all kinds of information so that the process of acquiring skills and wisdom isn't so mysterious. Still one must have a clear direction in mind and prioritize so that they make the best use of their practice time. Getting good, on any instrument, is a long, lonely, solitary act. Becoming a musician is done with a group on the bandstand.

It is a flawed, romantic, notion to think that all the old timers were artists; we know who the few artists were - memory of all the clones and simply good players has faded. It's also a flawed notion to think that there are no artists today, I would guess that the proportions are about the same as they've always been. The difference today is that we get distracted because of our access to so many players that are truely exceptional, really mind blowing, in one dimension of playing but not complete musicians. I imagine memory will forget them just like it always has.

Are we being dumbed down by access to too much material? There are more virtuoso drummers today than ever. I wish the materials available today had been available when I was a kid - my understanding and growth would have been faster. Access to information can't be a bad thing. Perhaps it appears that we are being dumbed down simply because, for too many drummers, becoming a virtuoso has become the goal. The goal should be to become an exceptional musician who happens to express their musicality from behind a drum kit. One should focus on identifying the music they love. Then search out every source: listen to, read books by, watch DVDs and go see live the masters of that idiom - not just the drummers, but all the instrumentalists - to understand what the music calls for and to learn what to practice and how it should sound. Then get as much experience playing as possible. If you have the tools, the mindset and the inspiration, you will find your own voice - just like in the riverboat days.

[aydee]

Thank you for coming in & putting it all in perspective, John.

Virtuosity so often becomes the be all end all with so many of us & it is here that we perhaps need more hand holding, course correction and a recallibration of musical goals.

Coming from you who 'wrote the book of knowledge' so to speak, and a drummer who commands universal respect & admiration as a player, this should be a must-read post for every drummer.

Thanks again.

[Jeff Almeyda]

John Riley here:

Achieving a high level of competency is different from making a musical statement or finding your own voice. Living life, understanding music as a whole - not just being dexterous on the kit - and getting a lot of guidance from and experience playing with people more advanced than you are the critical components that lead to wise musical decisions once the basic skills are solid.



I spent YEARS working on technical competency while practically ignoring the entire reason why I started playing a musical instrument. It took the birth of my daughter to snap me out of my technical obsession. I finally realized that, if a musician is supposed to express his feelings via his instrument it sure helps to have some feelings to express.

Thank you, Mr. Riley, for putting this in historical and practical perspective.

[Deltadrummer]

Thanks John for your insight and putting it all in perspective.

Not only do we have all these wonderful books, of which John's are some of the best. We have the internet, and Drummerworld, where we can access this stuff, and interact with some of the finest players and teachers out there.

I think for a lot of drummers, drumming as a vocation was not a reality because we really didn't know where to go to get the goods. There were so few schools where you could study drum set. And they were very expensive. It's on one level frustrating to know that all this material was out there if you knew where to find it; while it's liberating to be able to access this information on such a mass level, and discuss it with other drummers. The future of drumming is so exciting. :)

[bobdadruma]

I am currently working with a highly schooled guitar player. Everything that he plays is perfectly correct. When I listen to the recordings, There is no feeling. The others in the band feel the same way. We are encouraging him to be a bit looser when he plays. There has to be a balance between technique and feeling.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

Quote, "...If you have the tools, the mindset and the inspiration, you will find your own voice - just like in the riverboat days."

This is exactly the problem I see with som amny posts about, "how does Joey get that sanre sound, or how does xxx get that bass drum sound" It seems to me that the younger guys just want to copy whats out there rather than work on their own sound.
In the context of the thread , that is dumb. Today it is so easy to type Google get an answer and move on rather than do the research and learn something. Again that is dumb.

[G123]

John Riley here:

The goal should be to become an exceptional musician who happens to express their musicality from behind a drum kit. .

BINGO! Thanks, John.

[rogue_drummer]

Coming from an old (47 year old) drummer...

Waaayyyyy back in the '70's, the thing to do for a beginning student was to enroll in beginning band in school, get a teacher or find a mentor - usually an older kid, and buy some books on snare drumming, and practice, practice, practice. Rolls, rudiments, flams, paradiddles, etc. Three things were taught: reading music and note values, listening and playing by ear, and how to tune a drum properly. Then came the drum set lessons. Usually Jazz. The private instructors taught some basic rock, but it was usually jazz or jazz fusion. "The Drummer's Cookbook" was very popular, as was "Haskell Harr's Drum Method for Band and Orchestra" for snare drumming.

Keep in mind this was the early to late 1970's - no lessons via internet (as we know it now), DVDs, VCRs, etc.

I was told to find some LPs by Buddy Rich, Sandy Nelson, or any of the jazz greats and listen and play along. That would develop the listening skills.

Old school? Sure, but it worked!

[wy yung]

Ok, maybe the title of my post is a bit harsh, and it's not an accurate or fair way to describe my thoughts - but I couldn't think of anything else...

Is there too much information just handed to us drummers on a plate? When I read all the stories and interviews of all the greats (Tony, Elvin, Philly Joe), all I hear about is them putting on records of music they love, and assimilating their favourite drummers. Building technique with just Stick Control, Rudiments and Syncopation (Alan Dawson), and using a bloody good ear.

I get worried with so much great material about in book form, that people (including myself) are finding it all too easy to just pick up Art Of Bop Drumming and work through the comping in that, rather than do what all the greats did, just use their ears. I'm not having a dig at the authors of these books, I love them! The books are incredible. But every time I pick up a book (one of many!) I just think to myself deep down...This is too easy. This can't be right. Just reading through this book, repeating the patterns, manipulating them, trying to internalise what's already been given to me. John Riley's done all the hard work.
It just doesn't seem as...noble...if that's the right word? I can't help thinking that maybe there's a direct correlation with the amount of books and info that's handed to us today, and the fact that there will never be another golden era.

I'm not talking about a solution that would be "don't forget to do your daily hour of transcribing". I'm talking about what all the greats did - 8 hours a day of solid listening and internalising by ear, probably without slowing things down too.

I'm sorry if I've caused a stir, I'm not annoyed with all the books! I love them, especially John Riley's books, Stick Control, Master Studies, Syncopation, The Weaker Side, Mike Clark, Afro-Cuban Rhythms For Drumset, Groove Essentials, The New Breed, Wilcoxon. Books that break down your vocabulary and build it back up from the very core. I just often wonder what will help me develop my own tasteful voice more efficiently. A lifetime worth of study for 10.99? It seems fishy. And I know it's easy to say do both. But you get like 8 lifetimes worth of studying in 8 different books and it's not easy to turn your back on that.

I hope I haven't made a fool of myself.
Love you all! :D

Lloyd.


Interesting but I think I must disagree. The most effective way to improve is to study and practice combined with live experience. No matter how much material exists, simply reading it will not help one become a better drummer. There's no shortcut.

Personally I like having as many books as I can get. I spend lots of money on buying books and keeping up to date. Usually I will expose students to various, say 3 to 5 pages of a particular book and if the method and information suits a student they can then buy and work from that book. This saves me having to write everything down. ;-) That way regular rock beats and funk grooves, jazz exercises are already there and I can then write more individualised parts.

I love all the books and wish there were more. Especially devoted to ethnic percussion. For ex' I really want to learn Italian tambourine. Haven't found a book yet.