How to Count Sixtuplets

[delta]

Hello all. So I've just started practicing sixtuplets in regular 4/4 time. When playing them, it's easy to play the sixtuplets when they start on a quarter note, i.e. 1 2 3 4. However, I can't quite get the counting or timing when starting the sixtuplet on the "And" of any beat.

I've read to count sixtuplets as "1 - trip - let - and - trip - let". But with starting them on the "And", I get lost and uneven with the spacing. Also when playing partial sixtuplets i.e. maybe 2 successive notes out of the entire 6 note spacing, I have trouble.

Any tips on how to count this? Does one just have to "feel" this out? I have been slowing this down to 50 - 70 bpms.

[Monica McCoy]

I count triplets as 1-an-duh.

I count sextuplets as 1-an-duh-AND-an-duh.

I don't like saying "triplet" out loud.

[SEVNT7]

Eastman System- 8th note triplets in 2/4 / 1-la-li 2-la-li / sixtuplets / 1-ta-la-ta-li-ta 2-ta-la-ta-li-ta /

[Wavelength]

You can practice sextuplets (16th note triplets) by practicing 8th note triplets. Try working on this rhythm:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3607/3341143446_50c2068ef1.jpg

The second line is the same rhythm, but played in double time compared to the first. Just count the downbeats and play the subdivisions.

[Unevil]

that's weird---because as a generalization, our mouth pronounces triplet as three syllables---it is more natural. So I have learned to count triplets 2 different ways:

First way is: Trip-ul-let, Trip-ul-let, ... this is nice because it is easy to say fast.

Second way is: 1-ti-to, 2-ti-to, 3-ti-to,...and for sextuplets, it is counter 1-a-ti-a-toa


they work for me, maybe for you guys....as for the whole 'starting on and' thing, I generally try to stay away from mixing triplets and eighth notes in the same measure--if you start the triplets on an 'and' is it counting out right? What is your practice measure?

Hope I helped.

[Toza]

I don't like saying "triplet" out loud.

hehe why : )

[HeadRush]

I use a trick my band teacher taught me
well not really a trick but still

it is
you start with the triplets as
1 er e 2 er e 3 er e 4 er e 1
and then you can try this
1 er e and er e 2 er e and er e 3 er e and er e 4 er e and er e 1

and with using that, it is unmistakable what the triplets/sextuplets are.

[HeadRush]

I count triplets as 1-an-duh.

I count sextuplets as 1-an-duh-AND-an-duh.

I don't like saying "triplet" out loud.

I was always advised to not use that because that is the same sound I normally use for eighth notes. plus, when I tried that out loud I stumbled a bit.

but I definitely hate saying tri p let out loud haha

[mrchattr]

I always would say a triplet like "Tri Poh Let." I know it's totally inaccurate, and you sound like an idiot if you are talking to another musician and say, "This next measure is just a bar of tripolets." However, it works with the timing.

When I count sixtuplets, I found that not worrying about saying the "and" helps. So I would say, or a measure of 4/4 that was all sixtuplets:

onepolettripolet twopolettripolet threepolettripolet fourpolettripolet.

("one poh let tri poh let" for the first sixtuplet, "two poh let tri poh let" for the second, "three poh let tri poh let" for the third, "four pho let tri poh let" for the fourth.)

[Boomka]

Have you considered the Eastman Method (mentioned above) or some kind of simple Konokol - i.e. Ta-ki-ta-ta-ki-ta?. Is it necessary -- for your purposes -- to "count" or are you simply looking for a way to learn to hear/feel the rhythm?

Personally, I rarely count anything beyond a 16th-note, but would rather use Konokol or Eastman (or something else that works for me) to sing subdivisions greater than a 16th. I simply find "1-trip-let-AND-trip-let...etc." a tongue twister.

[HeadRush]

Have you considered the Eastman Method (mentioned above) or some kind of simple Konokol - i.e. Ta-ki-ta-ta-ki-ta?. Is it necessary -- for your purposes -- to "count" or are you simply looking for a way to learn to hear/feel the rhythm?

Personally, I rarely count anything beyond a 16th-note, but would rather use Konokol or Eastman (or something else that works for me) to sing subdivisions greater than a 16th. I simply find "1-trip-let-AND-trip-let...etc." a tongue twister.

the problem I see with the trip-let-and method, is the fact that is, as you stated, a tongue twister and I would assume that when using that, you lose the rhythm and start to get off.

[caddywumpus]

the problem I see with the trip-let-and method, is the fact that is, as you stated, a tongue twister and I would assume that when using that, you lose the rhythm and start to get off.

There are problems with EVERY system presented so far. I teach my students the "1 trip let AND trip let" method, but I focus on their body language and internalizing the feel of the triplet. By the time they work the triplets and sextuplets up to the tempo where this kind of counting would become a tongue-twister, I simply have them count the "1 and 2 and..." while playing the triplet subdivision. Just like playing double-stroke rolls--it's really hard to count the thirty-second notes as "1 e + a AND e + a..." while playing them, so we work on the "feel" of the duple subdivision, and they just count the sixteenth notes while diddling each one. It's a great method for teaching how to construct the five- through seventeen-stroke rolls, by the way.

I prefer this method, because the main point of counting music on a written page is to keep track of where you are in a measure. The problem with "tri puh let" and "ta ki ta" is that you lose the numerical value of the beats, which defeats the concept of counting written music altogether.

Before I get flamed, I'm referring to the "western" music notation. There are other traditions and cultures which focus on counting to teach individual rhythms--I'm not referring to those. The original question was referring to sextuplets, which I'm assuming means that he's reading music on a page and trying to count it and play it. (I've never heard the term "sextuplets" used when talking about Aborigine rhythms, Indian rhythmic solfege, Takatina, or any other spoken-rhythm tradition)

[Deltadrummer]

I count them one a tri pl et ta two a tri pl et ta

either that or ask the octa-mom.

btw it's sextuplets. It's when tuplets get together and multiply.

[Monica McCoy]

The reason I don't like saying triplet out loud is because it's a choppy word and my playing reflects that. When I count my way, I play smoother.

Especially when I'm playing a shuffle, counting let-1, let-2...sounds so lame. I can't groove saying it. Uh-1, Uh-2, Uh-3 flows much nicer.

[paramac]

I count (when I have to) ONE trip let AND trip let TWO trip let AND trip let... etc. I think that is the way you said you do it but have trouble..I've tried other ways (some of which have been suggested here) and I find this works best for 16th note triplets..It rolls off my tongue easier than other ways..There was a time where I counted the shit out of everything and maybe you just need to work on it more the way you were doing it..I can comfortably and smoothly count the way I suggested so it is possible to attain a comfortability with it..Good luck....


Hello all. So I've just started practicing sixtuplets in regular 4/4 time. When playing them, it's easy to play the sixtuplets when they start on a quarter note, i.e. 1 2 3 4. However, I can't quite get the counting or timing when starting the sixtuplet on the "And" of any beat.

I've read to count sixtuplets as "1 - trip - let - and - trip - let". But with starting them on the "And", I get lost and uneven with the spacing. Also when playing partial sixtuplets i.e. maybe 2 successive notes out of the entire 6 note spacing, I have trouble.

Any tips on how to count this? Does one just have to "feel" this out? I have been slowing this down to 50 - 70 bpms.

[paramac]

I agree with what you say about what you say below and teach the same way. people come in and say trip el let or something to that effect and I get them to say ONE trip Let TWO trip Let for 1/8 not triplets and ONE trip Let AND trip Let TWO trip Let AND trip Let for 16th note triplets..It just makes sense to count it this way as to keep your place....The ta ki ta thing sounds something closer to East Indian Tabla language which I know very little about....


I prefer this method, because the main point of counting music on a written page is to keep track of where you are in a measure. The problem with "tri puh let" and "ta ki ta" is that you lose the numerical value of the beats, which defeats the concept of counting written music altogether.

[Styx]

You can practice sextuplets (16th note triplets) by practicing 8th note triplets. Try working on this rhythm:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3607/3341143446_50c2068ef1.jpg

The second line is the same rhythm, but played in double time compared to the first. Just count the downbeats and play the subdivisions.

It can't get simpler than that!! Nice work.

[HeadRush]

There are problems with EVERY system presented so far. I teach my students the "1 trip let AND trip let" method, but I focus on their body language and internalizing the feel of the triplet. By the time they work the triplets and sextuplets up to the tempo where this kind of counting would become a tongue-twister, I simply have them count the "1 and 2 and..." while playing the triplet subdivision. Just like playing double-stroke rolls--it's really hard to count the thirty-second notes as "1 e + a AND e + a..." while playing them, so we work on the "feel" of the duple subdivision, and they just count the sixteenth notes while diddling each one. It's a great method for teaching how to construct the five- through seventeen-stroke rolls, by the way.

I prefer this method, because the main point of counting music on a written page is to keep track of where you are in a measure. The problem with "tri puh let" and "ta ki ta" is that you lose the numerical value of the beats, which defeats the concept of counting written music altogether.

Before I get flamed, I'm referring to the "western" music notation. There are other traditions and cultures which focus on counting to teach individual rhythms--I'm not referring to those. The original question was referring to sixtuplets, which I'm assuming means that he's reading music on a page and trying to count it and play it. (I've never heard the term "sixtuplets" used when talking about Aborigine rhythms, Indian rhythmic solfege, Takatina, or any other spoken-rhythm tradition)

the real trick is to maybe find the mid ground on what is effective and not a tongue twister
but I think you made some excellent points. but I'm still a huge supporter of 1-er-e-and-er-e because as you said, which still keeps up the numerical values of the note. plus another thing is, even with the ta ki ta, it doesn't give specific sounds to each subdivision of the note. I find that especially important when communicating to others about the rhythm and even just communicating it to yourself

[CtrStDrumSchool]

Try:

1 ta ta AND ta ta 2 ta ta AND ta ta etc...

[wert90]

why not use any word you can think of? eg.

straw-ber-ry

for triplets

[MoreCowbell!!]

why not use any word you can think of? eg.

straw-ber-ry

for triplets

Yeah! Exactly! That's how my drum teacher counts things to me.

[jayblazeff]

I count eighth note triplets as "One-a-let da-da-da Two-a-let da-da-da Three-a-let da-da-da Four-a-let da-da-da.

Quarter note triplets as One-a-let Two-a-let Three-a-let Four-a-let.

For me, it just kind of rolls off the tongue and it's easy to keep time and place.


What it all boils down to, is find something that works best FOR YOU.

[Styx]

Try:

1 ta ta AND ta ta 2 ta ta AND ta ta etc...

This is what I use too and find it quite easy to use when counting 16th note triplets.

[Vistalitedrums]

1 - a - la - and - a -la - 2 - a - la - and - a - la

sounds like wunala anala twoala anala

Best one I've found for me but you gotta find your own groove on it m8

[thelamb]

one tri-ple and tri-ple, two tri-ple and tri-ple etc.
or you can count it as ev-en-ly-ev-en-ly where ev(1)-en(2)-ly(3)-ev(4)-en(5)-ly(6)

[brady]

I count them one a tri pl et ta two a tri pl et ta

either that or ask the octa-mom.

btw it's sextuplets. It's when tuplets get together and multiply.



I actually count mine very similar to this.
I count "1-an-trip-o-let-a 2-an-trip-o-let-a...)
For me it smooths out the sticking and prevents me from accidentally accenting the "AND" if I count it "1-trip-let And-trip-let...

[jazzin']

I really believe that it is best to try not to count anything beyond a sixteenth subdivision and eventually nothing beyond simple quarter notes. It can take your mind to far away from the purpose at hand which is to try to internalise the feeling of the subdivision. Get it happening really slowly at first and then count the largest, but simplest, subdivision, which in this case would probably be a simple eighth note.

Think of it as accenting R L R L R L with triplets in between. Of course getting those sextuplets going in the first place may be what you're really after and being able to count those, but the value of learning things by counting in the largest subdivision is that you can immediately take it up as far and fast as you need to go.

It's the same as counting a normal bar of 4/4. If it has some sixteenth notes in it I see way too people count the whole thing in sixteenths and you can feel the tension because of it. If you learn to count just the outline of the subdivisions or the outline of the phrase, it comes across much easier and much more natural. It is simply learning a different way of counting which is, I believe, much more useful in all of your playing and practice.

In a normal bar of 4/4 in which you have various subdivisions ranging from sextuplets and triplets to sixteenths and eighth notes, how would you count it? Would you literally count it as is ie. 1 + 2 e + a 3 + a 4 (add whichever preferred method of counting in six here)? Doing so might be ok if you are really struggling with it and going over it ultra slowly just to get the first and very basic understanding of it down, but, as soon as you have that first grasp of it down you should move straight into counting the outlining subdivision, which in this case would be eighth notes as it caters to every subdivision in the phrase, also making the mental access easier as simply counting 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + can mean that you aren't mentally struggling with counting things in your head and you can focus on feeling it and making the groove work in a more macro sense instead of focusing on the micro sense of it and being too focused on counting.

The other important thing is that you cannot get counting every subdivision, such as that above, much past a medium/slow tempo, which greatly limits the possibilities of it and can give you further problems when playing something which is slightly more 'up' and probably a lot more common in live playing, unless you are doing lots of ballads. lol

If you become ingrained with counting each subdivision out, then suddenly having to play something based entirely on sextuplets at a higher tempo can really freeze your mind and make you struggle mightily with it, whereas if you have got this 'outlining the subdivisions' thing happening it takes away all of those problems as counting 1 + 2 + or, even better, just 1 2 3 4 is easy at just about any tempo you can play.

Even if you have something tricky to play such as a sextuplet figure that starts on a triplet partial, you can still outline it like: 1 2+ 3 4, or if it starts and finishes exactly across one quarter note then you just emphasize both of them ie. 1 2+ 3+ 4.

It really creates a lot more freedom in your playing. When I was taught this and got used to it I was really quite stunned that I hadn't been doing it earlier as you think it would be something you do naturally, but I had always been so focused on counting the full subdivision of something like sixes or whatever, that you don't realise that it makes you rigid. If your mind is rigid then your playing will also be rigid and this is a simple method to really help break up that feeling and give you more freedom.

Check it out and try it out, hopefully it gives you some help.