Developing a deep pocket

[markusjj]

I have been playing for 8 years with no lessons and I'm having trouble really setting a deep pocket. This became evident when I video taped myself playing a long to a Michael Jackson song (Don't laugh please). I had decent groove in the beginning but about halfway through, I lost significant feel of the song. Am I overplaying?

I use a metronome once in awhile when practicing but sometimes I just find it boring. I guess I just prefer to play along to songs and add my own chops into it.

So I guess I am just looking for advice on how to develop a good solid feel for the song and working on my pocket.

[tbmills]

listen to/watch some steve jordan
he has pocket like NO ONE ELSE...

practice with some music with your only concerns being,
1. stay on time
2. no fills
let your groove be the embellishment for the song.

try to focus on the small things in your groove. when i am looking at the big picture, i tend to get bored and overplay.

also, on my snare head, i wrote "the GROOVE is HERE." (steve jordans dvd title. shh...)
its a good reminder to keep things solid and simple.

i have been playing for just about 10 years and this pocket/groove thing has only been a concern of mine for the past year or so. if you have any questions in particular about this, pm me. id be glad to help.

(ps. pocket looks and sounds so badass. everytime i go into gc and mess around, i keep it simple and rock solid. with, yes, small cool fills, but for the most part simple, and i get tons of compliments. you look like you really have your game together. plus, its about your sound more than chops or anything else. this is a musical instrument for crying out loud!)

[tbmills]

check out The Meters.
good groove, great pocket. not just metronome.

[aydee]

Like TB says, lots of listening, practice, metronomes, a deep understanding of what behind, on , or ahead of the beat really means.

... but here's the kicker, IMO: Either you have it or you dont.

I think lots of drummers can play solid time, but cant tickle your secret groove G-spot. Thats because they are very experienced and very good, but weren't born with it.

Steve Jordan IMO, as an example, is born with it.

[larryace]

I use a metronome once in awhile when practicing but sometimes I just find it boring. I guess I just prefer to play along to songs and add my own chops into it.

You have to get over the mindset that a straight beat is boring. Therein lies a conceptual issue that you revealed. Pockets can be repetitive, but playing repetitive is not a negative connotation. You just keep hitting the same notes and after a while something clicks and you experience the hidden power of repetition, it's a trancelike state in a way. You can't achieve that if you are doing a fill after every 4 or 8 bars. It's hard to keep "on track" without thinking, "I must do something more here, it's too boring." The second you have that thought is the second your pocket gets a hole in it. Think in terms of simplicity. I know exactly how you feel, it is a stage you go through on the way to learning how to achieve pocket. Michael Jackson's "Billy Jean" is a great pocket song. Just play it through and don't add any fills whatsoever, even when the record does, it's good practice in restraint, which is one of the ingredients you need to play a good pocket. Instead of thinking fills, concentrate on making your beat feel as good as sex.

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

I agree with Larryace. Yes, playing steady with deep pocket has beauty. Thats how I try to play along the records enjoying the whole song.
However, I always thing every rock song has a Keith moon version drumming in it. Too bad he is no more.

[Dedworx]

my advice would be stop listening to yourself and start listening to the music.

try to absorb yourself in the music your playing, not in the technical difficulty of what your playing. if your focus is on the music, and and making the music feel great you should get to a point where you won't want to play any more than the groove. it will just feel that good you won't want to disturb it. and then from there depending on the music you'll hear spaces in the music where a fill will totally work for the song or that moment and go for it and it adds to the music.

with your focus on the music and playing the right groove or fill at the right time you will develop a deeper pocket. if your thinking about technical things or trying to showcase things you've practiced or something hard you can do it will probably take away from the overall songs feel not add to it. pocket is also about heart i think, and if you love what your playing that will translate into your grooves.

steve jordan is an amazing example of pocket, and billy jean has a great groove. actually the whole thriller album is great to play along to for groove.

i think you can be born with something special(jordan,gadd,chamberlain), but pocket and groove can be had by anyone with the right attitude and understanding.

[d.h.drumming]

One of my favorite grooves, and I'm sure many others will concur, is The Funky Drummer. It's iconic, it's fat, it's the embodiment of groove. And it's also pretty much the same thing through the whole song. In my opinion, to play with groove usually implies keeping it simple, and keeping your time tight, so the problem could be that you're overplaying. Try charting out a song, something simple, and take note of the fills that are being played and when they're being played. It's sometimes the case that the drummer will play only a couple of ghost notes, of a crash at the end of every 4/8 bars, then maybe a couple of toms after 32.

If you find the metronome boring, how about you take the chart I'm sure you're going to write out, play through it once or twice with the metronome, then a couple of times with the music, then back with the metronome, and so forth. It's good that you're filming yourself playing, as you could try comparing the way you play with only the metronome and the way you play with the music, and also note hesitations in fills, dropped beats (though I'm sure there wont be any) and the feel of the song.

Sorry if that was a bit long winded, just my two cents (or pence, where I'm from).

[drummerchick435]

How's about you start playing with other people? Playing with other people helps your groove psychologically because you think "I've gotta keep time here or else the guitarist is gonna get frustrated" (or something to that effect). It also keeps you focused.

[veggo32]

I'm just guestimating, but here's something I've noticed with some drummers.
They get louder during the song.
They're technique begins to fade during the song because their caught up in the emotion of what they are playing (which is not a bad thing but has to be limited/controlled)
. ie: they stop striking the drums with a wrist motion and use their arms, which most of the time results in a too loud snare hit which throws off the volume balance of the strikes you are making with your other limbs. sometimes the kick drum gets louder which again unequalizes the volume.
Think of it this way, your body as being a 4 channel mixer, with each limb representing a channel. If one channel increases in volume it overpowers the other channels and doesn't sound good. Sometimes this is a good thing and sometimes a bad thing. Basically dynamics b/w limbs is what gets you in the pocket, its the optimum volume from each limb that makes it sound so sweet, that perfect mix which variates as things go alone. Ghost notes etc.
Here's a 2 pager from Hal roach, he explains it well and also adds a great exercise for what you are dealing with.

[Boomka]

my advice would be stop listening to yourself and start listening to the music.

try to absorb yourself in the music your playing,

This is right on. "Pocket" isn't the same every time - it's relative to what's happening around you. Listen to what the other rhythm section players are doing and try to place your notes where they make the most sense relative to what they're doing. I.e. If the guitar player's rhythm ends here, put your backbeat there. A pocket is the combined effort of everyone in the band working to propel the time forward. It may mean playing in tension or unision with other parts, sometimes simultaneously. Before you can have deep pockets, you need to have big ears.

[Deathmetalconga]

I have been playing for 8 years with no lessons and I'm having trouble really setting a deep pocket. This became evident when I video taped myself playing a long to a Michael Jackson song (Don't laugh please). I had decent groove in the beginning but about halfway through, I lost significant feel of the song. Am I overplaying?

I use a metronome once in awhile when practicing but sometimes I just find it boring. I guess I just prefer to play along to songs and add my own chops into it.

So I guess I am just looking for advice on how to develop a good solid feel for the song and working on my pocket.

Play a four-piece set! (just kidding, but that's what the rabid four-piecers here will tell you).

If you can find it, study Drum Wisdom by Bob Moses.

Do not play the snare and bass drum more than one time each per measure in a song you are working on. Make this work with a variety of different songs. By doing this, you will be developing your ability to distill a rhythm to its essence, which is what pocket playing is all about. Do not play other things in the spaces, but really focus on landing fewer beats where they really belong.

[tbmills]

Play a four-piece set!

hell, play a two piece set. snare, bass, hats, crash/ride.

youll find you can express alot more with subtle timing changes than you think you can.

[slingerland755]

Once I started playing with a click live and then playing in front, right on and behind the beat; I found that once I could consistantly play behind the beat (but not vary the tempo), my "deep pocket" improved immensely. My band commented on this very thing and it made me feel great.

[SGT_Drummer]

If you want to watch some guys with GREAT pocket grooves, watch some of the youtube vids of Aaron Spears, Gerald Heyward, and other well known gospel drummers. You can't beat them in this area because this is what they are known for. Gerald Heyward even has a few videos up of him teaching different ways to approach it as well as tips on what to do. Hope it helps.


-Scott

[tbmills]

If you want to watch some guys with GREAT pocket grooves, watch some of the youtube vids of Aaron Spears, Gerald Heyward, and other well known gospel drummers. You can't beat them in this area because this is what they are known for. Gerald Heyward even has a few videos up of him teaching different ways to approach it as well as tips on what to do. Hope it helps.


-Scott

aaron spears does too much to be pocket imo. he has sick groove, but thats not pocket.

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

Playing with other people helps your groove psychologically because you think "I've gotta keep time here or else the guitarist is gonna get frustrated" (or something to that effect). It also keeps you focused.

I agree...................... however, Pete Townshend never got frustrated though!.

[brady]

hell, play a two piece set. snare, bass, hats, crash/ride.

youll find you can express alot more with subtle timing changes than you think you can.



Definitely good advice. It seems a lot of people just HAVE to hit all the toms just because they are there.
I used to play at an acoustic open mic blues night with just my hi-hat, ride cymbal and snare. Playing such a scaled down 'kit' has helped me a lot to this day You might try to force yourself to use only 3 sound sources too; it may sound limiting, but it will also eventually make you very creative in your grooves and fills. And as mentioned above, having 'big ears' helps.

[wy yung]

I use a metronome once in awhile when practicing but sometimes I just find it boring.



This is certainly not helping. If you are serious about playing drums you must work with a metronome.

I believe that the best pocket drummers fully commit to the groove. To commit to a groove one must think of the music first. I play with several drummers and it is obvious when a drummer serves the music as opposed to making the music serve the drummer. Believe me, the former, not the latter is always the more enjoyable to play with.

If you find playing with a metronome boring, you should perhaps think of it as a guide. It may be that it hinders you because you are unable to play what you wish to play without going out of time. If this is the case, the only remedy is to work with the metronome. Start simply and at a slow tempo and gradually increase it over time as comfort allows.


If you want to be a good drummer it is important to do the work.

Good luck.

[d1ckerd]

If you like playing to music than get Bernard Purdies Master Drummer Volume 1

It has only his drum beats!! i'd plug it into my headphones, and than try to copy his beats, that really helped me understand and "feel" them out.

also, try playing open handed (if your right handed), that will build a LOT of dynamics real fast.

[Matty G.]

I use a metronome once in awhile when practicing but sometimes I just find it boring. I guess I just prefer to play along to songs and add my own chops into it.


Well, this may be the reason you haven't developed a good pocket, your practicing isn't organized to account for this development.

Practicing, in my view, should be very right-brain, focused, thinking, analyzing in order to get the most out of it. Performing is the place to forget all of that and be creative, or left-brain oriented. Ideally, there shouldn't be any right-brain (thinking, calculating) in your playing, nor any left-brain (creative, free-flowing) in your practicing.

A lot of people don't get any better because they never truly practice - they just perform for the empty room, i.e. dick around. Conversely, sometime people practice great but don't perform well, cause they never stop practicing, even on a gig i.e. they're not in the moment. Without pure practice your playing will stagnate. And if you never stop practicing, then what the hell is the point?

But if you want to play drums for an hour, you should devote SOME of that time to pure practice, fixing gliches, and mastering new skills. You've taken the first step and identified a gap in your playing (pocket) plus you're asking for help on this forum, so you're well on your way, and you hinted at the solution yourself in your post. (playing to a metronome)

I say, yes, use your metronome. Put the click on and play some simple grooves. Don't just play it for 10 minutes straight, though. Try to really relax, and NOTICE what happens, when you play 2 bars of a groove. Do you slow down or rush? Try to play those 2 bars in perfect time, then 4, then 8, etc. But take notice of when you get off the click, stop, and restart. The idea is to remake your groove playing to feel effortless, relaxed, and in perfect time.

btw, you don't have to do this with a click, you can use a Michael Jackson track as a metronome or 'fixed-time-source', but don't be tempted into jumping in and 'playing', i.e. dicking around, and then you won't be practicing.

[Dibalo Jonze]

To reiterate what everyone has said, use a metronome. Metronomically perfect music like Michael Jackson can be used, but the only problem about playing along to music is that you are not responsible for making the music feel good since there is a studio drummer behind you who is in fact keeping it all together. Additionally, when you play along to music it is harder to hear all the internal dynamics within your playing, and it is these dynamics in conjunction with your sense of time that creates a good or deep pocket.

Find ways to make the metronome fun to work with. There are many. Here's one: Figure out the bpm of those MJ songs you play along to and set your click to that number. Then play along to the click, click.... sound while also hearing/singing the song in your head. Embellish every now and then to indicate that the song is moving from say the verse to the chorus but always focus on the groove and time.

As others have said, KEEP IT SIMPLE. You have to find a way to enjoy keeping good time as much as you enjoy doing fills and solos. Think about the importance of every note you hit. Not just the big snare backbeats that everyone can feel, but even the little high-hat/ride notes that are the connective tissue of the groove.

As others have said, play all the beats that you know to the metronome at a bunch of tempos. Throw in a lot of the fills you use and discover where and when you are likely to fall off the click. Maybe its that at certain tempos your doubles on the bass drum are not spaced properly thereby lengthening the actual length of a groove which will make you bleed into the next measure. Or maybe its because right before you go into a big fill you get excited and cheat the amount of space that should come before the fill, thereby shortening the measure which will in effect rush the music. Figure out your tendencies then work hard to correct them.

Make sure that you are giving the amount of space between the notes/measures you are playing the exact same space throughout the song. Internalize what this space should feel like by either singing or keeping your body moving during rests. Remember your ultimate goal is to make the time feel good so that people can dance to it and so that the other members in your band have a safe rhythmic canvass on which they can express themselves. If you yourself - the drummer - cannot dance to the beat you are creating, how can anyone else?

[raggletaggle]

aaron spears does too much to be pocket imo. he has sick groove, but thats not pocket.

When aaron sits back and just plays the beat of the song, the dude's pocket is ridiculous. I can see how his over-the-bar fills don't fit into your definition of "pocket", though.

[larryace]

to distill a rhythm to its essence, which is what pocket playing is all about. Do not play other things in the spaces, but really focus on landing fewer beats where they really belong.


That's what I'm talking about. To distill it down to what's absolutely necessary, to it's essence, leaving as much space as possible for the other musicians. Less drums = better feel. Nothing worse than a lead drummer (Keith Moon excepted ha ha)

You can have 2 different people play the same pattern on the same kit and have it feel totally different. The guy with the pocket accents every quarter note in some subtle way, with the kick or the hi hat perhaps, (with special attention given to the backbeat) but that quarter note pulse is always there, as opposed to the guy who plays every note at the same dynamic level, pulseless. It's all about playing as little as possible and having that quarter note pulse, even during any fills that are necessary.

[markusjj]

I want to thank you all for the very helpful advice.

What I'm going to do is set aside a specific amount of time for metronome practice. I also went to the local music store and picked up a new pair of sticks. I was using 7As for a few months and I now switched back to 5As which was my normal size. It made practice that much more enjoyable today. Having new gear or messing with my set always give me an extra edge in practice and motivates me even more.

Steve Jordan really does have a great sense of groove and feel. His motto(Simplicity is not stupidity) is also fantastic. Its always fun discovering new drummers and how you can relate to their style

[larryace]

Really, the best things in life are the simplest. And hey, who wants to work that hard, not me ha ha. If I can acheive what I set out to do without breaking a sweat....even better!

[Guz2]

Rather than making a new thread I'll ask here: what's a deep pocket?

[Boomka]

Rather than making a new thread I'll ask here: what's a deep pocket?

Originally, it referred to the way that some guys tended to place the backbeat a little behind the beat. That kind of feel was personified by East Coast (US) players like Gadd, Marotta, etc. But over time it's come to mean the ability to keep solid meter and make music feel good.

Using this second definition, I'd say that a deep pocket depends on the situation. There is a different "pocket" for anchoring a Klezmer band than for Dub Reggae. It's about listening and reacting to what's around you and placing your parts where they create the right tension or propulsion for the piece.

[Bernhard]

I agree...................... however, Pete Townshend never got frustrated though!.

Ha ha - not sure about that one.

Keith ruined so many concerts by just being drunk or stoned....even much more than the others - not the best example for deepest pocket...

Bernhard

[Paul Quin]

Time, groove, dynamics, space and feel are the ingredients for pocket. While each ingredient is conceptually simple, joining them together and coming out with a deep pocket is something only the few really manage.

Several people have advised that you practise with a metronome. I strongly believe that every drummer should have a metronome and every drummer should use one but I generally teach my kids to use it when developing rudimental skills and always when using the pad. When playing the kit (other than working those rudiments around the kit), I think playing along to CDs can be the most rewarding practise. It keeps a young player's interest and sets the time in the same way as a metronome. I also think, you will learn more about "pocket." Now, of course, that depends on what you play along with! Steve Jordan, Steve Gadd, Gerry Brown, Jeff Porcaro, Carlos Vega, Curt Bisquera, Jonathan Moffett, Shawn Pelton, Yogi Horton, Sonny Emory, Rick Marotta, Ricky Lawson, Russ Miller, Bernard Purdie, Questlove and even Chad Smith (and many others) are the drummers I associate with pocket. Listen to what they play and how what they play enhances the music. There is nothing boring about finding that "pocket" even when you are playing something very simple.

Strive for the "pocket" I promise it will lead to much more work than just having great chops!

Good luck

Paul

[mikeray]

What a great topic and this is the essence of what we do. I love taking just a kick, snare, HH, and ride to a gig. . .it really does focus me on what's important. One of the bassists I work with a lot and I are always telling each other 'no fills, bitch'. Sometimes, when a fill is obvious and simply must be played. . .don't play it. I love the suggestion here to play only one kick and one snare note in the measure. . .I like taking that kick, snare, hh, and ride combo to the weekly jam we host and support the other drummers who show up in finding and committing to the groove as well. Sometimes, it pisses them off and they wanat to go to a jam with a bunch of drums. With others, we share an awesome evening of groove and learning. Go back and listen to any (don't exclude the earlier) Steely Dan albums and listen to how sparse so many of the drum parts are. . .maybe four cymbal crashes in an entire song or just one tom note. . .those guys (Bernard Purdie, Rick Marotta, Jeff Porcora, Steve Gadd, Jim Hodder, Ricky Lawson, Leroy Clouden, Keith Carlock, etc.,) all play pretty simply and every album is an awesome education in this regard. Play along to it so you are freed from the metronome and are playing some music but be careful to play and really listen to what these great drummers are doing. Play the parts they played as opposed to your own idea and interpretation of these timeless songs. They have so much to teach us. Oh, this is a bottomless topic, kids!!!

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

What a great topic and this is the essence of what we do. I love taking just a kick, snare, HH, and ride to a gig. . .it really does focus me on what's important. One of the bassists I work with a lot and I are always telling each other 'no fills, bitch'. Sometimes, when a fill is obvious and simply must be played. . .don't play it. I love the suggestion here to play only one kick and one snare note in the measure. . .I like taking that kick, snare, hh, and ride combo to the weekly jam we host and support the other drummers who show up in finding and committing to the groove as well. Sometimes, it pisses them off and they wanat to go to a jam with a bunch of drums. With others, we share an awesome evening of groove and learning. Go back and listen to any (don't exclude the earlier) Steely Dan albums and listen to how sparse so many of the drum parts are. . .maybe four cymbal crashes in an entire song or just one tom note. . .those guys (Bernard Purdie, Rick Marotta, Jeff Porcora, Steve Gadd, Jim Hodder, Ricky Lawson, Leroy Clouden, Keith Carlock, etc.,) all play pretty simply and every album is an awesome education in this regard. Play along to it so you are freed from the metronome and are playing some music but be careful to play and really listen to what these great drummers are doing. Play the parts they played as opposed to your own idea and interpretation of these timeless songs. They have so much to teach us. Oh, this is a bottomless topic, kids!!!

One of the reasons I am into Charley Watts!. He likes just the snare and occasionally hits the toms.-- quite simple. But Drummers like Lars Ulrich... I could never play that fast and I dont want to either... But I love to watch those folks play.

I like this Charley's quote: "It's been years and years and years I've been playing the drums, and they're still a challenge. I still enjoy using drumsticks and a snare drum
.

[jonescrusher]

One of the reasons I am into Charley Watts!. He likes just the snare and occasionally hits the toms.-- quite simple. But Drummers like Lars Ulrich... I could never play that fast and I dont want to either... But I love to watch those folks play.

I like this Charley's quote: "It's been years and years and years I've been playing the drums, and they're still a challenge. I still enjoy using drumsticks and a snare drum
.


But it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that Charlie Watts had pocket, let alone a deep one!

[zepplin92]

hey all, what ive been doing to improve my pocket is to listen to the album Mothership, by Parliment, and jam to that with just your hats, snare, and bass drum. its plenty of fun to just groove, especially with Bootsy Collins, and George Clinton.
Thats just my 2 cents.

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

I agree JonesCrusher, Charley Watts doesnt have pocket. To me, steady neat pocket seems beautiful but seems robotic after a while. Especially Neal Peart is so perfect and seems too robotic to me after watching for a while. However, Charley Watts drumming seems dirty especially in the song "Sway" from sticky fingers. I love unpredictable snare beats.
To me imperfection is the key to rock drumming.

[Deathmetalconga]

That's what I'm talking about. To distill it down to what's absolutely necessary, to it's essence, leaving as much space as possible for the other musicians. Less drums = better feel. Nothing worse than a lead drummer (Keith Moon excepted ha ha)

You can have 2 different people play the same pattern on the same kit and have it feel totally different. The guy with the pocket accents every quarter note in some subtle way, with the kick or the hi hat perhaps, (with special attention given to the backbeat) but that quarter note pulse is always there, as opposed to the guy who plays every note at the same dynamic level, pulseless. It's all about playing as little as possible and having that quarter note pulse, even during any fills that are necessary.

Personally, I find it boring to listen to drummers who play too simply, although that is what audiences want to a large degree. The alternative isn't necessarily to be "lead drummer." Between the extremes of playing to little or playing to much is where the music moves around. How much to play depends on the genre and feel and mood.

Manu Katche is an example of a drummer who plays with complexity, but sustains a deep pocket. That's because he's mastered dynamics - the complexity gives great texture, but the louder pocket dominates the feel. The best drummers know how to work dynamics to balance and even mix together complexity and groove.

[jameswadewilson]

I found that looking at a waveform on a digital audio workstation of myself playing with a click that I slightly anticipate the click with my ride hand, my kick was dead on and snare tended wander. This was very instructive. I found it very difficult to put a quarter note ride on top of or after the click, it demanded great concentration!

After a long hiatus from playing I am in a band again and found that I was almost always rushing. I started playing with a click in my ear only. It was difficult at first, but the band immediately commented that I was keeping MUCH better time and felt much more confident in the overall sound.

I found that once I got past this and felt that I could play the parts and even improvise with the click I now knew what it felt like and could keep much better time without the click. I finally got a glimpse of the pocket and could feel it myself.

Even though I practice mostly with a metronome it did take a little getting used to playing with a click both for me and the other band members, but now I feel like I can keep the time better, even while improvising or performing fills.



Once I started playing with a click live and then playing in front, right on and behind the beat; I found that once I could consistantly play behind the beat (but not vary the tempo), my "deep pocket" improved immensely. My band commented on this very thing and it made me feel great.

[lewisn27]

listen to/watch some steve jordan
he has pocket like NO ONE ELSE...
When I think of pocket, I think of Steve Jordan.

[DrummerDavid]

I need a deeper pocket-I am short on cash.


"Just lay it in the pocket,lay it in that groove"

[TTNW]

If I play 4 or 5 times a week, then I will usually spend about half of my time on pocket and groove. Since you like to play along to records (me too) I have some suggestions for music to listen to and play along with that will help you stretch it out and fall into that pocket.

Set up your kit with just the bass, snare, hats and one ride and one crash. If you don't want to strip away the rest of your kit then put towels over the toms. The idea is to create an environment that feels overly simplified so you can feel secure with fewer sounds.

These albums have some great mid-tempo songs that hold a wide and deep pocket for 4 and 5 minutes.

John Mayer's Continuum - Great Steve Jordan and J.J. Johnson grooves
Natalie Merchant's Tiger Lilly
Joss Stone - Any Album
Johnny Lang's Wander This World
James Taylor Greatest Hits - Lots of great Gadd grooves

Concentrate on playing the song all the way through with no fills and stay vigilant because after a half an hour of hearing the few fills in the songs you will feel the urge to play in the empty space but don't do it. This is a lot harder than it sounds.

At some point, you will get a very surreal feeling that the music has become almost painfully slow and the empty space in the groove will just open up and become obvious. Work on practicing enough so that you get to this "pocket zone" earlier and earlier in your practice sessions. In a few weeks this regimen will seem boring and repetitive but the control over your prescence in the groove will arrive earlier and earlier.

I spend 6 to 10 hours a week on this and one of the biggest benefits is that I can get into the zone in usually in a minute or so. Rehearsals and gigs start off with a much better vibe because everybody can sponge off of your pocket. A drummer I know taught me this and that even when you are practicing by yourself you should treat these pocket sessions with a relaxed but serious demeanor like you might if you were performing. This vibe will rub off on others that you play with and they will immediately go to that spot you're in...

... deep in the pocket.

I hope this helps you.

[TTNW]

You have to get over the mindset that a straight beat is boring. Therein lies a conceptual issue that you revealed. Pockets can be repetitive, but playing repetitive is not a negative connotation. You just keep hitting the same notes and after a while something clicks and you experience the hidden power of repetition, it's a trancelike state in a way. You can't achieve that if you are doing a fill after every 4 or 8 bars. It's hard to keep "on track" without thinking, "I must do something more here, it's too boring." The second you have that thought is the second your pocket gets a hole in it. Think in terms of simplicity. I know exactly how you feel, it is a stage you go through on the way to learning how to achieve pocket. Michael Jackson's "Billy Jean" is a great pocket song. Just play it through and don't add any fills whatsoever, even when the record does, it's good practice in restraint, which is one of the ingredients you need to play a good pocket. Instead of thinking fills, concentrate on making your beat feel as good as sex.

Really, really good advice.

[John Galt]

As a beginning drummer, I at first didnt understand what this was thread was about, having no clues with regard to "a pocket".
However, reading through this, all became clear.
My other passion is Taiko drumming, which is Japanese drumming. In particular, a style known as Miyake drumming. This is completely repetitive, but the beat is master.
There are no fills, no other drums other than one particular drum, and everyone plays the same. The beat is so pure, it will make you weep. If that dont, the leg stance will.
And that is it. The beat is the key, and as repetitive as that metronome is, it takes no prisoners.

[Disco Stu]

This became evident when I video taped myself playing a long to a Michael Jackson song (Don't laugh please).
?? What's funny about that? MJ has some brilliant songs.

Some great advice here already. My method is to listen, listen, listen. Even if you're not playing drums, listen to some good Funk/R&B (including MJ!), look for that deep pocket, lock into it, and groove to it.

[FunkyLover999]

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I think nobody mentioned what I consider to be an extremely important factor in playing with deep pocket and groove, which is: DANCING.


The starting point in drumming has to do with how our body reacts to what our ears are listening and creates the feedback to it. With that said it´s all about REALLY understanding where the music is going and what the music needs in one specific moment.
One key issue here: you don´t necessarily have to spend a lot of time playing with a metronome, although it´s very important to learn how your beats in all 4 limbs interact and relate to the click. IMO that´s the previous (yet fundamental) step to achieve consistensy and control.
But before I go a little off_topic: pocket playing it´s all about listening and FEELING the music you want to play, understanding the whole picture that all the instruments are bringing up and how each one´s voice participates in it. Before you even grip a pair of sticks: make your body move to the music.. that means: DANCE.

I personally use this image: in classical western music the markings of the metronome can be listened and interpreted as a click... click... etc. In african based music the metronome should be listened as: dannng... dannng.. that means a pulse that´s vibrating all the time, like making waves of sound.

LISTEN, DANCE, VIBRATE and only after that.. PLAY. It would feel so natural and satisfying as your first bicycle ride.



Groove resides not only in the actual notes you play.. but most of all in the space of time between them.


:D