Good, cheap, drum mics

[805Drummer]

Hey everyone!

As you know, I record videos on Youtube, of drum covers and stuff.

I'd like to take this a step further and have my kit sound amazing, by micing it up.

The problem: I know pretty much nothing about mics--all I know is to avoid cheapies like Nady, CAD, etc.

I also know that a popular kick drum mic is the Shure Beta 52, which I found on eBay for only $70. Good deal?

As for the snare, the Audix i5 seems to be popular.

Keep in mind that I'm not recording for a studio, I'm just looking to put up some high-quality videos for fun (and a bit of ad revenue =D)

What mics do you suggest? And will I need a mixer, or what? I was thinking of having one snare mic, one for the rack tom, one for both of my floor toms, and either overheads or closed-micing for the cymbals.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Thank you!

[805Drummer]

Alright, sorry to bump, but I think I've narrowed it down (thank you, trkdrmr!):

Audix d6 for the kick
Shure SM57 for the snare

...and then an overhead. What would be the overhead equivalent of those two mics?
Also, I would have to get clips and stands, right?

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

AKG C1000. I I just bought a pair a couple of weeks ago and use them last night to record a concert. Great microphones that are not expensive and are very, very well made. Not the best sounding condensers I've ever heard, but at the price point some of the best. They also have the advantage of being capable of battery-power for location recording.

Rode NT5's are pretty much equivalent but I found them to be slightly more expensive and without the battery power option. Rode NT4's are useful mics, it's actually a stereo microphone with two capsules in an XY arrangement and a breakout cable. For hassle-free stereo recording, that's certainly a good option but is a little more expensive.

[805Drummer]

AKG C1000. I I just bought a pair a couple of weeks ago and use them last night to record a concert. Great microphones that are not expensive and are very, very well made. Not the best sounding condensers I've ever heard, but at the price point some of the best. They also have the advantage of being capable of battery-power for location recording.

Rode NT5's are pretty much equivalent but I found them to be slightly more expensive and without the battery power option. Rode NT4's are useful mics, it's actually a stereo microphone with two capsules in an XY arrangement and a breakout cable. For hassle-free stereo recording, that's certainly a good option but is a little more expensive.

The Rodes seem a bit unnecessary, because I don't even think Youtube uses stereo sound (I could be wrong). But the AKG seems good...the cheapest on eBay was $100. That's a pretty steep price, but I guess you get what you pay for. With the SM57 being $45, the d6 being $140, and the C1000 being $100, that brings the total to $285. But what about the mixer? What would be the cheapest and most effective way to bring all three tracks into Garageband?

[Calummordue]

hey, there is many ways of doing it. You need a audio interface, u need 6 mic imputs if your gonna have 6 mics. to be honest you don't really need to close mic for the purposes of youtube because it compresses it anyway. You should should look at that the recording technique "recorder man" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Fjuz7jXzs you only need two mics and it produced a pretty decent sound. if you wanted to use more mics you could add a bass, snare and then toms. I would also look at getting a room mic as it really helps with the reverb and general sound.

so what i have done in the past is

The recorder man position - a pair of T.bone E100s
A room mic - Samson CO1 Studio Condenser
Bass mic - T.bone MB45

This is the drum cover i did using these mics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzTZobYp91U&feature=channel_page

These mic are not the best to be honest and they produce a pretty decent sound.

So you could use a pair of overheads in the recorder man position
The Shure Beta 52 on the bass
A Shure SM57 on the snare
And then possibly mic on the toms.

That would be an ideal setup but you would need a 7 or 8 channal interface + mic cable + stands or rim clips + audio software. It gets really expensive! i would just recommended using 4 mics and doing what i did in the cover.

I hope that helped

Calum

[805Drummer]

hey, there is many ways of doing it. You need a audio interface, u need 6 mic imputs if your gonna have 6 mics. to be honest you don't really need to close mic for the purposes of youtube because it compresses it anyway. You should should look at that the recording technique "recorder man" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Fjuz7jXzs you only need two mics and it produced a pretty decent sound. if you wanted to use more mics you could add a bass, snare and then toms. I would also look at getting a room mic as it really helps with the reverb and general sound.

so what i have done in the past is

The recorder man position - a pair of T.bone E100s
A room mic - Samson CO1 Studio Condenser
Bass mic - T.bone MB45

This is the drum cover i did using these mics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzTZobYp91U&feature=channel_page

These mic are not the best to be honest and they produce a pretty decent sound.

So you could use a pair of overheads in the recorder man position
The Shure Beta 52 on the bass
A Shure SM57 on the snare
And then possibly mic on the toms.

That would be an ideal setup but you would need a 7 or 8 channal interface + mic cable + stands or rim clips + audio software. It gets really expensive! i would just recommended using 4 mics and doing what i did in the cover.

I hope that helped

Calum

Thing is, in your drum cover, I could tell that you're not using a snare mic. I think I would really want one, because I'm going for a pretty pop-ish, condensed sound, with punchy toms, and a kick that thuds. That being said, I think it's pretty imperative that I mic the snare and the bass. I was told that the Beta 52 needs lots of EQing, so I was gonna go with the Audix d6.

I couldn't find the T.bone anywhere on ebay, but the Samson C01 had a pretty good price, for $70. But how would it compare the the $30 more AKG C1000?

Let's see...the Audix d6 comes with a cable, so I would just need to buy a cable for the SM57. The SM57's come with attached clips, I'm pretty sure, so that means I would just have to buy a mic boom stand for the d6, and a cable for the SM57.

If I was only using three mics, couldn't I just go with, say, a four-channel interface? I already have audio software--Garageband.

[larryace]

Audix I5 for snare (you cant shatter the capsule like on a 57)
Audix D6 for kick (Beta 52 is also a fine mic)
Overheads, I can't speak intelligently about an inexpensive one. I would heed MFB's advice, he's quite experienced. I have Rode NT5's but they aren't cheap. Buy good stuff first, it's cheaper in the long run, that's my mindset.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Audix I5 for snare (you cant shatter the capsule like on a 57)
Audix D6 for kick (Beta 52 is also a fine mic)
Overheads, I can't speak intelligently about an inexpensive one. I would heed MFB's advice, he's quite experienced. I have Rode NT5's but they aren't cheap. Buy good stuff first, it's cheaper in the long run, that's my mindset.

I'm not that experienced, I just know what I like.

The C1000's may be $30 more than the Samson, but at this price point, $30 is a LOT of the percentage cost. You won't regret the C1000's. Although they're not 'high-end' microphones, you won't ever get rid of them because they are very useful. Often you find in a recording situation, you'll have access to high-end microphones, but often the cheaper one will get the job done better or suit your recording aesthetic. With that said, you want a quality microphone at a good price point and my experience with Samson has been mixed. My experience with AKG is the opposite. It hasn't ever been mixed, it's always, always been one of quality at whatever price you may pay.

You'll hang onto the C1000's, even when you have higher end microphones. You won't hang onto the Samsons.

Four channel interface would be the way to go - sometimes the value of a four-channel interface is offset with the equivalent eight track. Often, the price difference might only be a hundred dollars or so for double the inputs. My Line 6 TonePort UX8 was only £350, but a four-track equivalent wouldn't have been significantly less. Maybe a hundred pounds or so.

[genericdrummingusername]

Don't rule out a set of CAD's yet.
They work great for me. There is a Shure package to look at, though.

[805Drummer]

Audix I5 for snare (you cant shatter the capsule like on a 57)
Audix D6 for kick (Beta 52 is also a fine mic)
Overheads, I can't speak intelligently about an inexpensive one. I would heed MFB's advice, he's quite experienced. I have Rode NT5's but they aren't cheap. Buy good stuff first, it's cheaper in the long run, that's my mindset.

Yeah, I've noticed a lot of people on Youtube use the I5 on the snare batter, and the SM57 on the snare side. I've also heard that they sound pretty similar, except the i5 is a bit more high-pitched, and the SM57 makes for a warmer tone. If that's true, the I5 sounds better for the snare, and the SM57s would do well for the toms.

In fact, it might even be cheaper to close mic the toms than to use an overhead mic, if I can get a good deal on the SM57s.

I'm not that experienced, I just know what I like.

The C1000's may be $30 more than the Samson, but at this price point, $30 is a LOT of the percentage cost. You won't regret the C1000's. Although they're not 'high-end' microphones, you won't ever get rid of them because they are very useful. Often you find in a recording situation, you'll have access to high-end microphones, but often the cheaper one will get the job done better or suit your recording aesthetic. With that said, you want a quality microphone at a good price point and my experience with Samson has been mixed. My experience with AKG is the opposite. It hasn't ever been mixed, it's always, always been one of quality at whatever price you may pay.

You'll hang onto the C1000's, even when you have higher end microphones. You won't hang onto the Samsons.

Four channel interface would be the way to go - sometimes the value of a four-channel interface is offset with the equivalent eight track. Often, the price difference might only be a hundred dollars or so for double the inputs. My Line 6 TonePort UX8 was only £350, but a four-track equivalent wouldn't have been significantly less. Maybe a hundred pounds or so.

OK, so now I know not to go with the Samsons--C1000's instead.

As far as interfaces go, I'm completely lost. I was looking at http://www.guitarcenter.com/Audio-Interfaces-Computers-and-Peripherals.gc?o=1 and I can't even tell how many inputs it has! The Toneport costs $500, so I'm obviously not going with that. Can't you kind of skimp with a cheap interface, or no?

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

You can't kind of skimp with anything. If you get a poor interface, the preamps will be awful and as a result the quality of your microphones will be irrelevant. You need to make sure it has phantom power as well, unless you want to buy a lot of batteries.

[805Drummer]

You can't kind of skimp with anything. If you get a poor interface, the preamps will be awful and as a result the quality of your microphones will be irrelevant. You need to make sure it has phantom power as well, unless you want to buy a lot of batteries.

So what would you recommend? I can't even tell how many inputs it has by the description...

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

So what would you recommend? I can't even tell how many inputs it has by the description...

I'm trying to find something suitable right now, but doing a number of other things.

My general advice to you is to wait until you can afford something that you will keep. I'm using a Line 6 TonePort UX8 - which is out of your price range, but I suggest that if you want to expand your recording capability then you consider something to save up for. A PreSonus FP10 would also be a good idea, or even a FirePod second hand from eBay. Try and look second hand for something like this. Don't necessary like new for your microphones either.

Don't skimp on anything. If in doubt, save up and wait.

[805Drummer]

I'm trying to find something suitable right now, but doing a number of other things.

My general advice to you is to wait until you can afford something that you will keep. I'm using a Line 6 TonePort UX8 - which is out of your price range, but I suggest that if you want to expand your recording capability then you consider something to save up for. A PreSonus FP10 would also be a good idea, or even a FirePod second hand from eBay. Try and look second hand for something like this. Don't necessary like new for your microphones either.

Don't skimp on anything. If in doubt, save up and wait.

Oh yes, most definitely used. I was just using Guitar Center as a reference point. I'll keep on the lookout for some interfaces...

I actually don't have the money to most of this stuff now (I only have $50), but I keep this huge spreadsheet in Google docs of all my drum purchases, future purchases, links, things I need to sell / have sold, etc. It's really, really useful.

[ermghoti]

You want to go cheap? Get the 52, that's a great price used. Go single overhead, CAD M177, Studio Projects B1, a 603 maybe a used Russian Mk012 will turn up. Nothing I've heard from the C1000 flatters it considering the price point.

Keep the OH low, it will get the snare plenty sharp, the other stuff will bleed in well enough with careful placement. alternatively, get two condensors, go Recorderman, or a spaced pair in front of the kit, probably about tom high and 4-6' back. You probably won't like the proximity of the snare in the mix though, based on your comments.

That way, you can use one of the halfway decent two-channel interfaces, which hover around $200. It will be a huge improvement over a camcorder.

In an ideal world, I'd suggest dual Recorderman config OH, a snare, and kick, but even used, you'd be in for the B52 + $275+ for decent mics, used, and then be committed to a larger interface, which would be at bare minimum, $300 used.

[Chonson]

In fact, it might even be cheaper to close mic the toms than to use an overhead mic, if I can get a good deal on the SM57s.


You don't want to go this route - it seems to make sense initially, but you'll lose a lot of air and the kit will sound fairly dead. If you want to go minimal, I'd rank importance in the following order:

Overhead - Condenser or ribbon
Overhead #2 - matched (or not) to the previous.
Kick
Snare

OH is a matter of taste; I'm currently really liking the Cascade Fatheads but they're about $300/pr which seems to be a bit more than you're wanting to spend (but they're great mics).
Kick again depends on what you are a fan of; I haven't been using a "kick mic" per se lately (421 or RE20 + AT4047) but the designed-as-a-kick-mic I like is the Beta 52.
Snare - Can't go wrong with a 57. (Unless you want to pony up for an m201)

Not a huge fan of the Audix stuff, personally. Matter of taste.

[805Drummer]

You don't want to go this route - it seems to make sense initially, but you'll lose a lot of air and the kit will sound fairly dead. If you want to go minimal, I'd rank importance in the following order:

Overhead - Condenser or ribbon
Overhead #2 - matched (or not) to the previous.
Kick
Snare

OH is a matter of taste; I'm currently really liking the Cascade Fatheads but they're about $300/pr which seems to be a bit more than you're wanting to spend (but they're great mics).
Kick again depends on what you are a fan of; I haven't been using a "kick mic" per se lately (421 or RE20 + AT4047) but the designed-as-a-kick-mic I like is the Beta 52.
Snare - Can't go wrong with a 57. (Unless you want to pony up for an m201)

Not a huge fan of the Audix stuff, personally. Matter of taste.

I know it sounds bad, but I want my kit to sound fairly dead. Not like "cardboard box" dead, but like, barely any resonance. I just want a quick, fat, punch from each tom, and I want my snare to be the only one with a bit of ring. Cymbals: crisp and bright.

So the Beta52 or the Audix d6 is final for the kick, the SM57 is final for the snare, and for overheads, so far I have either the AKG C1000s or Recorderman OH (I think).

But now I need to find a good interface to keep my eyes set on...the cheapest possible 4-input interface that won't ruin my sound.

[Chonson]

I know it sounds bad, but I want my kit to sound fairly dead. Not like "cardboard box" dead, but like, barely any resonance. I just want a quick, fat, punch from each tom, and I want my snare to be the only one with a bit of ring. Cymbals: crisp and bright.

So the Beta52 or the Audix d6 is final for the kick, the SM57 is final for the snare, and for overheads, so far I have either the AKG C1000s or Recorderman OH (I think).

The recorderman thing is a placement technique, not a product. One over, one behindish - kinda like the old Glyn Johns method.

2 OH, 57 snare + 52 kick will get you there. To achieve your desired sound, you'll need to try and get the majority of it through careful tuning and some application of muffling. I was commenting that close-micing your toms and ditching overheads entirely would not produce a good sound. Your cymbals would sound horrible and there would be very little air to the sound. Overheads are pretty much the foundation of the kit sound.

[Calummordue]

Im pretty sure Garage band wont work with a audio interface.... garageband will only talk to one sound card and it classes an audio interface as a sound card. You will have to look at getting another.

calum

[805Drummer]

The recorderman thing is a placement technique, not a product. One over, one behindish - kinda like the old Glyn Johns method.

2 OH, 57 snare + 52 kick will get you there. To achieve your desired sound, you'll need to try and get the majority of it through careful tuning and some application of muffling. I was commenting that close-micing your toms and ditching overheads entirely would not produce a good sound. Your cymbals would sound horrible and there would be very little air to the sound. Overheads are pretty much the foundation of the kit sound.

Besides my bass, my kit is tuned just about perfectly how I want it. I guess I'll go with that then. One or two overheads, and 57/52 or d6 on the bass.

But: what about mixers?

Im pretty sure Garage band wont work with a audio interface.... garageband will only talk to one sound card and it classes an audio interface as a sound card. You will have to look at getting another.

calum

What? No, not true. I quote, from Garageband's help files:

"To record on multiple tracks, you need to have an audio interface with at least two input channels for recording."

[Chonson]

Besides my bass, my kit is tuned just about perfectly how I want it. I guess I'll go with that then. One or two overheads, and 57/52 or d6 on the bass.

But: what about mixers?


You don't need a mixer - just a multichannel audio interface (eg FireStudio, Firepod, etc... avoid the Firebox because the pres aren't great and you'd need to get two more pres to get 4 channels) if your goal is to record. Mixers will take your four channels and mix to a stereo left & right - which means if you want to bring up a little snare or kick after you've recorded, it's going to be much tougher.


What? No, not true. I quote, from Garageband's help files:

"To record on multiple tracks, you need to have an audio interface with at least two input channels for recording."

GarageBand works fine with an audio interface. Don't know what the upper limit on channels is (I use Logic), but I know GB is fine with an interface.

[genericdrummingusername]

Well, you seem to have made up your mind, but still, Overhead Snare Bass didn't give me much of a rock sound.

And don't knock the CAD's DARNIT!!

[805Drummer]

You don't need a mixer - just a multichannel audio interface (eg FireStudio, Firepod, etc... avoid the Firebox because the pres aren't great and you'd need to get two more pres to get 4 channels) if your goal is to record. Mixers will take your four channels and mix to a stereo left & right - which means if you want to bring up a little snare or kick after you've recorded, it's going to be much tougher.



GarageBand works fine with an audio interface. Don't know what the upper limit on channels is (I use Logic), but I know GB is fine with an interface.

Crap, I called it a mixer again. Before I started researching mics and asking you guys, I thought it was called a mixer, then learned it was an interface. I slipped up =D

Well, you seem to have made up your mind, but still, Overhead Snare Bass didn't give me much of a rock sound.

And don't knock the CAD's DARNIT!!

Many people have said not to get the CAD's when you'll just upgrade later.

[ermghoti]

A lot of CADs and pretty much all of the early ones, are vile. The M177/179 is a pretty good value, much more versatile (and IMO better sounding) than the C1000.

The C1000, by contrast, is within $60 of a Shure SM81 or Peluso CEMC6, which use the AKG as their prison wife. It is the same price as the clearly superior Oktava Mk-012 and SPB3, and more than twice as much as the easily competitive MXL 603, SPB1, or the dark horse Kel HM1.

[trkdrmr]

Well, you seem to have made up your mind, but still, Overhead Snare Bass didn't give me much of a rock sound.

And don't knock the CAD's DARNIT!!

The cad packs I saw at my local music store were like zildjian ZHT. Passable, but you'll want to upgrade when you hear GOOD ones.

The FR was pretty sad, the kick mic had a hard cutoff of something like 50-60hz.

I am not referring to the better offerings they may have, but the low end drum kit pack I saw left as much to be desired as entry level cymbals.

[805Drummer]

A lot of CADs and pretty much all of the early ones, are vile. The M177/179 is a pretty good value, much more versatile (and IMO better sounding) than the C1000.

The C1000, by contrast, is within $60 of a Shure SM81 or Peluso CEMC6, which use the AKG as their prison wife. It is the same price as the clearly superior Oktava Mk-012 and SPB3, and more than twice as much as the easily competitive MXL 603, SPB1, or the dark horse Kel HM1.

CEMC6AGKMK012SPB3MXL603SPB1HM1.

Sorry, I just didn't understand any of that. I think I'm gonna stick with the tried and true...

The cad packs I saw at my local music store were like zildjian ZHT. Passable, but you'll want to upgrade when you hear GOOD ones.


Thank you so much for putting it into words I can understand!

[Tuxido]

Im pretty sure Garage band wont work with a audio interface.... garageband will only talk to one sound card and it classes an audio interface as a sound card. You will have to look at getting another.

calum

GarageBand accepts audio interfaces, you can even combine multiple interfaces if you have more than one plugged via usb or firewire, by creating aggregate devices.

http://www.thegaragedoor.com/tutorials/agg.html

[trkdrmr]

Plug in a presonus fire studio project. 8 inputs, and via firewire, it becomes your soundcard.

[ermghoti]

CEMC6AGKMK012SPB3MXL603SPB1HM1.

Sorry, I just didn't understand any of that. I think I'm gonna stick with the tried and true...

Tried and true = B52 or D112, 2xSM81s and SM57. ;)

As for the Cliff's notes of my previous post, C1000s are Geo Tracker mics on a Land Cruiser budget.

[Garvin]

One more person here in favor of C1000's!!!

I've used them live and for recording. They do a great job for the price. I run a Firewire 410 for an audio interface. I use a single C1000's and borrow a nice Audix D6 for a kick mic for basic at home stuff.

I bought my C1000 new about 5 years ago for $150 and have used it a whole lot. Its really a great workhorse of a mic as far as I'm concerned.

[ermghoti]

Just curious, ever try a MXL 603? They sound about the same to me, and the everyday cost of the MXL is $100.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

One more person here in favor of C1000's!!!

I've used them live and for recording. They do a great job for the price. I run a Firewire 410 for an audio interface. I use a single C1000's and borrow a nice Audix D6 for a kick mic for basic at home stuff.

I bought my C1000 new about 5 years ago for $150 and have used it a whole lot. Its really a great workhorse of a mic as far as I'm concerned.

See, I know I could've gotten better-sounding mics for the money - but I wanted something that would really last. Hence the AKG's. Are yours' the C1000 or the C1000s? I'm running the C1000s and sure, there are better mics for the price - but in terms of workmanship and reliability, the others don't come close. Just taking mine apart and unscrewing the capsule enclosure demonstrates how well these are made. They are pure quality throughout. I've never been particularly impressed with the build quality of MXL or any of the others'. That and I'm fairly loyal to AKG - they've served me well in the past when I've borrowed sets and I've never been disappointed with them.

The MXL's are cheaper, yes, but I am willing to pay a little more for the brand name with AKG. Call me mad, but I really am.

[Garvin]

Yeah, it was a C1000S...

[diosdude]

I can't understand the thinking here. I see a lot of guys buying mics that are like $100-$300 each and then they plug them into a $400 presonus pre-amp or worse.

Take a listen to a recording i did of some kids last week:

I am Grace "The Invisible"
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=335242445

Done on a $150 set of Nady mics through a $350 used focusrite octopre preamp on pro-tools LE.

I'll be upgrading my microphones shortly but seriously, your cash is better spent on a quality preamp IMO.

There are guys that won't agree with me, but for my experience your priority for recording expenditures should be:

1.Computer and DAW
2. Source (drumkit with fresh heads)
3. Preamps
4. microphones (even the "cheapies" like cad, digital reference, nady have appropriate polar patterns and are designed for use in high spL fields)
5. cables (high q stuff like the top of the line monster or Mogami's)

So in a nutshell, i'd take my Nady's and a focusrite octopre (or other higher quality) preamp over good mid-range mics (akg d112's audix d6, shure sm57, cs-1000s, etc) and a presonus firestudio or lesser preamp.

Of course, if you can afford both, well then...

[veggo32]

Good cheap drum mics and possibly the most underated drum mics are Apex aka Avlex drum mics, they come with tom mounts so you don't need mic stands. They are the best bang for the back. I use them live and find absolutely no difference b/w shures and these. I see them onebay used for like 20 a piece and they are way better than cad or samson.

[trkdrmr]

I can't understand the thinking here. I see a lot of guys buying mics that are like $100-$300 each and then they plug them into a $400 presonus pre-amp or worse.

Take a listen to a recording i did of some kids last week:

I am Grace "The Invisible"
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=335242445

Done on a $150 set of Nady mics through a $350 used focusrite octopre preamp on pro-tools LE....

While the focusrite is better (I'd expect so, for double the price) the presonus fire studio is not even close to "poor", anything that infers that is an extreme exaggeration. The audio quality difference in "samson" mics compared to audio d6 and Shure are much, much, much bigger than the difference between the presonus fire studio and the focusrite.

If a kick mic can't capture 30-80hz worth a crap, then no preamp in the world can help. It's like trying to improve the original resoloution of a image in photoshop. It won't work that way.

I have already made test recordings that sound like they came out of a studio anyway.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I can't understand the thinking here. I see a lot of guys buying mics that are like $100-$300 each and then they plug them into a $400 presonus pre-amp or worse.

Take a listen to a recording i did of some kids last week:

I am Grace "The Invisible"
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=335242445

Done on a $150 set of Nady mics through a $350 used focusrite octopre preamp on pro-tools LE.




Quality preamps are definitely important - no argument there. But the source of the recordings (of which the mics are definitely a part) also bears a huge amount to the quality of the sound. Without decent input, having good preamps is thoroughly pointless and indeed vice-versa.

Those recordings, whilst credible, sound rather harsh. Particularly on the cymbals and snare. The vocal mixing is a bit strange as well. Possibly over-compressed during the quieter bits, but I'm doing a few other things at the moment as well and not playing too close attention.

What I'm trying to say is that, sure, preamps are important - but so is the source. Both are as important as each other. To say to somebody 'buy cheap mics!' isn't going to fill anyone with confidence to the overall quality of what's eventually going to be their finished product. And if somebody ends up with a mediocre mix as a result, then it doesn't warrant well for a beginner. To give yourself the best chance of quality recordings, buy the best mics and preamps/interface you can possibly afford. That's what I've done (to the point of having to borrow cables and stands; luckily I'm the Music Society technician) and whilst my recordings aren't *professional*; they're not bad. When I've got some more of my DAW project going, I'll post some on here. But rest assured, I won't be playing a full kit on it.

Incidentally, I just set up a 'Technicians and Nerds' social group if anybody wants to join. We can flesh this out there!

[genericdrummingusername]

While the focusrite is better (I'd expect so, for double the price) the presonus fire studio is not even close to "poor", anything that infers that is an extreme exaggeration. The audio quality difference in "samson" mics compared to audio d6 and Shure are much, much, much bigger than the difference between the presonus fire studio and the focusrite.

If a kick mic can't capture 30-80hz worth a crap, then no preamp in the world can help. It's like trying to improve the original resoloution of a image in photoshop. It won't work that way.

I have already made test recordings that sound like they came out of a studio anyway.

Thats why you don't diss CAD, at least the Premiums.

http://www.pulseonline.com/CAD/bigKBM412.jpg

-Generating Element: Neodymium Dynamic
-Polar Pattern: Unidirectional (Cardioid)
-Frequency Response: 25Hz - 15 kHz
-Sensitivity: -85 dB 0dB=1V/uBar @ 1 kHz 0.56 mV / PA Impedance: 150 Ohms ± 30% @ 1 kHz
-Housing: Die Cast Zinc Alloy
-Finish: "Titanium Gray" housing with black grille screen

For $50 new, I don't belive it can be beat.

[trkdrmr]

Thats why you don't diss CAD, at least the Premiums.

-Generating Element: Neodymium Dynamic
-Polar Pattern: Unidirectional (Cardioid)
-Frequency Response: 25Hz - 15 kHz
-Sensitivity: -85 dB 0dB=1V/uBar @ 1 kHz 0.56 mV / PA Impedance: 150 Ohms ± 30% @ 1 kHz
-Housing: Die Cast Zinc Alloy
-Finish: "Titanium Gray" housing with black grille screen

For $50 new, I don't belive it can be beat.

Yeah those are somewhat (much) better than the samson. The "kick mic" kit I saw, the kick mic had a cutoff of 60hz. Even then, the accuracy wasn't good. There was a 4-pc mic kit for $99.

FR alone doesn't necessarily indicate it's great, but it's definitely better than having a poor FR. The shure beta has a deeper FR than the audix d6, but it takes a lot of work to get it to sound like the audix does out of the box.

I'd like to see tests/opinions of that CAD mic. It does look intriguing.

[genericdrummingusername]

Yeah those are somewhat (much) better than the samson. The "kick mic" kit I saw, the kick mic had a cutoff of 60hz. Even then, the accuracy wasn't good. There was a 4-pc mic kit for $99.

FR alone doesn't necessarily indicate it's great, but it's definitely better than having a poor FR. The shure beta has a deeper FR than the audix d6, but it takes a lot of work to get it to sound like the audix does out of the box.

I'd like to see tests/opinions of that CAD mic. It does look intriguing.

Well, yeaaaaaaah, I know that, but it works great on my kick and a bass cab, too.

I also know what you mean about CHEAP ones.

This
http://images.miretail.com/products/optionLarge/CAD/224309jpg.jpg
Clearly has the same exact same capsule as this
http://images.miretail.com/products/optionLarge/CAD/224313jpg.jpg
But they're both good on toms.
And yes, I own all of these mics, and have tested them.

[jayu]

I had the CAD 7 piece just like the above... the band ended up using them on the amps since I got an SM57 & an Audix D6. The D6 is just wonderful on rock applications... little to no EQing. The CAD kick mic needed alot of work in Cubase so we ended up using it on the bass amp. Im still using the mini pencils that came with the 7 piece as my overheads but Im already set on either an Oktava or MXL 603. The MXL is really attractive with the oktavamod modification... the sound files in the oktavamod website sounded really nice but oktava's tried & tested... at least by other professionals. lol. Btw, look into the TASCAM 1641.. it's what Im using & works with no noticeable latency on my 6 year old laptop.

[Mikecore]

Curious. I was using the KM 212s and TM 211s for playing live and never really had any issues. It makes me think, however, that investing in some D112s might not be such a bad idea before I record my solo drum stuff. I have yet to record with the CAD mics, but I would imagine that such an "under the microscope" setting demands higher grade stuff all around.

[bradmapex]

could you not just run two overheads on your kit, i saw a video of Tool's drummer and the set he was using only had OH and he was talking about how he likes it so much better than haveing each drum miked, because he has "Breathing Room"

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

It does depend on what you're recording, but I find great success when recording with just a pair of overheads. This isn't specific to just drums either, I've recorded an Orchestra with just a pair of condensers and it comes out very well if you know what you're doing. Live, I would say the kick and snare do need to be amplified in larger venues, along with an overhead or two - but for recording, there is an obsession with over-complication that proves detrimental to the process and occasionally, result.