Extreme metal drumming technique

[Goreliscious]

Hi, I'm just after some pointers to better my technique. I play in a black/death metal band and I reckon I could play much tighter if my technique was a bit better. I'm not really looking to learn whole new finger push-pull style techniques but just improve on what I'm already doing.

I've uploaded a video of me playing one of my band's tracks to youtube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2jusf5FCEs ...and I'd appreciate any constructive criticism. I know I need to loosen my grip on my left hand and hold the stick closer to the fulcrum point but every time I do that I lose stick control and power. I probably could do with hitting lighter too?

Cheers

[d1ckerd]

howdy partner

to be quite honest there doesn't seem to be much problems going on with your technique, you seem pretty relaxed and have an understanding of what your playing. you stay on time and your playing is actually really tight!

on your fills you may want to turn your hands so you playing with you wrists pointing to the ceiling rather than to the side. but really i don't know, if what your doing is working, than more power to you!

:)

[Goreliscious]

I've been playing for about 8-9 years, (completely self taught), but only just found out about the different matched grips! Going by what I've read... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matched_grip ...about the French, German and American matched grips, I'm using the French grip...are you suggesting I switch to the German hand position for the rolls?

[lewisn27]

I know it is not really on topic but play other styles of music. I play rock, metal, jazz, funk, blues ect. Combining all those styles would make your playing much more dynamic.

[Goreliscious]

I know it is not really on topic but play other styles of music. I play rock, metal, jazz, funk, blues ect. Combining all those styles would make your playing much more dynamic.

Yeah that's not the kinda constructive criticism I'm after. I'm after technique criticism. I could say the same thing about a funk drummer...what they really need is some bomb blast beats and double bass drum...but it wouldn't be right for the music. I do also play jazz, drum 'n' bass and tribal rhythms in my own time to expand my playing, but I don't use it with my band. It wouldn't sound right and it's not what we're aiming for.

[d1ckerd]

I've been playing for about 8-9 years, (completely self taught), but only just found out about the different matched grips! Going by what I've read... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matched_grip ...about the French, German and American matched grips, I'm using the French grip...are you suggesting I switch to the German hand position for the rolls?

yar! that's the one!

[lewisn27]

Yeah that's not the kinda constructive criticism I'm after. I'm after technique criticism. I could say the same thing about a funk drummer...what they really need is some bomb blast beats and double bass drum...but it wouldn't be right for the music. I do also play jazz, drum 'n' bass and tribal rhythms in my own time to expand my playing, but I don't use it with my band. It wouldn't sound right and it's not what we're aiming for.
You can use ghost notes in metal, yes, even black metal. You listen to Meshuggah by any chance? Tomas Haake, ghost notes all the time. Displaced snare, this comes from funk and jazz and funk drumming. A lot of funk drummers use double bass anyway, Dave Weckl uses double bass, Benny Greb (even when he's playing jazz) uses double bass.
I just makes drumming more interesting.
I didn't mean no disrespect.

[larryace]

Anytime you can play a snare drum that fast and clean one handed...I don't see any technique issues. What is it that you think needs work regarding your technique?
You seem to get around the drumset with no wasted or misdirected effort.

[darkstar442]

there is little to no improvement for what your doing... its extremely tight... i need to learn the french grip so i can doing fasts blasts easily

[Goreliscious]

Anytime you can play a snare drum that fast and clean one handed...I don't see any technique issues. What is it that you think needs work regarding your technique?
You seem to get around the drumset with no wasted or misdirected effort.

I should be able to play fast for longer. I know there's something I'm not doing right because when I'm blasting for a long period of time my hands and my arms get really tight and painful - moreso my left than my right, my right hand is better cos I'm using my fingers more.

I know that I've gotta loosen my grip with my left hand, but I'm wondering if in general I shouldn't hit as hard? Maybe I'm expending too much energy smacking the drums?! Are you meant to breathe at a regular pace when playing or breathe faster to get more oxygen?

[Toza]

I know there's something I'm not doing right because when I'm blasting for a long period of time my hands and my arms get really tight and painful - moreso my left than my right, my right hand is better cos I'm using my fingers more.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPFEP_stPGI

[Crazy+Hands]

Derek's lessons are great, also watch Derick Pope's videos about the open/close technique. Your technique isnt that bad, your not pumping your arms or anything like that. I've have problems with my left hand doing that.

Try just working with a practice pad or your snare drum alone, this forces you to focus on just your hand technique. If your max speed is say, 220, back down the metronome to 200 or so and play singles without stopping for 5 to 10 minutes at first and then up to 30 minutes and beyond. You can mix in other rudiments or bursts of your max speed if your getting bored. Its very hard at first to not want to stop, but you have to keep going until you reach the time limit...use a stop watch or play along to entire album or make a playlist or whatever. I find it helpful to tap out the metronome beat with your left foot, and then tap out the downbeat of each 4 count with your right. Keep moving up the metronome each week and you will see results.

You also need to stretch your fingers and wrists if your experiencing tension or pain. There was an article about this in drumhead magazine last year about this, you should be able to find it by searching their website. I'm not entirely sure about that though.

[Therma lobsterdore]

I should be able to play fast for longer. I know there's something I'm not doing right because when I'm blasting for a long period of time my hands and my arms get really tight and painful - moreso my left than my right, my right hand is better cos I'm using my fingers more.

I know that I've gotta loosen my grip with my left hand, but I'm wondering if in general I shouldn't hit as hard? Maybe I'm expending too much energy smacking the drums?! Are you meant to breathe at a regular pace when playing or breathe faster to get more oxygen?

It's difficult to tell if this applies from your video, cause honestly your playing looks very good! But have you ever heard of the freestroke technique? It's pretty straight forward, it just centre's around gripping your sticks at the balance point (usually about a third of the way from the base), and then keeping your hands as relaxed and open as possible so that when the stick rebounds from the head your hands accept the rebound. So your no longer pulling the stick upwards, your simply allowing to bounce back up and then pushing it down.

But to be honest, cause of the speeds your reaching I'd say your probably doing this already. But yes, try hitting softer, try ensuring that your using all the available rebound, control your breathing and keep telling yourself to relax over and over .If you feel any tension in your limbs, then try to relax immediately.

[monstermook]

Hi, I'm just after some pointers to better my technique. I play in a black/death metal band and I reckon I could play much tighter if my technique was a bit better. I'm not really looking to learn whole new finger push-pull style techniques but just improve on what I'm already doing.

I've uploaded a video of me playing one of my band's tracks to youtube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2jusf5FCEs ...and I'd appreciate any constructive criticism. I know I need to loosen my grip on my left hand and hold the stick closer to the fulcrum point but every time I do that I lose stick control and power. I probably could do with hitting lighter too?

Cheers

I watched the video a few times. Here are a few of the things I noticed.
1) The one handed roll technique you are doing with your right hand at the beginning of the video, which appears to be the freehand technique of Johnny Rabb fame, could be practiced on the left hand as well. But you are overusing it with the right, so if you were capable of doing it with your left it would be a nightmare.
2) A little bit of the freehand technique goes a long LONG way. Yes it looks cool but only to people who don't know what your doing. I can teach any 3rd grader the trick. When listening to the freehand technique, remember, people hear a single stroke roll. Single stroke rolls are only so interesting.
3) Try to incorporate some rudiments into your playing other than the single stroke roll and the flam. If you could play more than a single stroke roll your playing would be much more interesting.
4) Develop your own style. Unfortunately every garage band metal drummer out there plays exactly like you. I went to a metal show last week with 3 different bands. It might as well have been the same drummer all 3 times and you could easily have sat in and no one would have noticed.

[sauceisback]

Hi, I'm just after some pointers to better my technique. I play in a black/death metal band and I reckon I could play much tighter if my technique was a bit better. I'm not really looking to learn whole new finger push-pull style techniques but just improve on what I'm already doing.

I've uploaded a video of me playing one of my band's tracks to youtube... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2jusf5FCEs ...and I'd appreciate any constructive criticism. I know I need to loosen my grip on my left hand and hold the stick closer to the fulcrum point but every time I do that I lose stick control and power. I probably could do with hitting lighter too?

Cheers

i actually think you play well, if you say your hands are getting tighter and it starts to get pain while playing faster blast beats i think you are holding the sticks tighter than the way you held it when you started playing. i watched flo moniour's (spelling) extreme metal drumming DVD and when he showed his finger technique on how to keep it loose while playing things faster so that you can play longer and after trying it out it worked for me ^_^

i think you should have that small space between your thumb and your pointing finger to keep things loose i hope it helps

[Goreliscious]

I watched the video a few times. Here are a few of the things I noticed.
1) The one handed roll technique you are doing with your right hand at the beginning of the video, which appears to be the freehand technique of Johnny Rabb fame, could be practiced on the left hand as well. But you are overusing it with the right, so if you were capable of doing it with your left it would be a nightmare.
2) A little bit of the freehand technique goes a long LONG way. Yes it looks cool but only to people who don't know what your doing. I can teach any 3rd grader the trick. When listening to the freehand technique, remember, people hear a single stroke roll. Single stroke rolls are only so interesting.
3) Try to incorporate some rudiments into your playing other than the single stroke roll and the flam. If you could play more than a single stroke roll your playing would be much more interesting.
4) Develop your own style. Unfortunately every garage band metal drummer out there plays exactly like you. I went to a metal show last week with 3 different bands. It might as well have been the same drummer all 3 times and you could easily have sat in and no one would have noticed.

Again - not the kinda constructive criticism I'm looking for. I don't care what you think of the beats on their own, you don't know what they sound like to the riffs and you're also basing my complete style on one song - you don't know what I do in other songs. I am looking for TECHNIQUE pointers.

[Therma lobsterdore]

See what you think of this Dave Weckl video on technique, he starts talking about balance points and rebound about halfway through...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&v=GUPu9yA_-7Q

This might be beneficial to you, it does look like your holding the sticks quite far back in the video, hence you might not be getting as much rebound as you should.

If you really want to sort out your hand technique then you could get JoJo Mayer's secret weapons DVD, he goes through every hand technique known to man in extreme detail.

[Goreliscious]

Just for you 'monstermook'... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz57CggkXqA ...the intro to another song of ours which quite clearly shows I do more than gravity blasts and blast beats.

If your contribution isn't positive and relevant...keep schtum.

[Goreliscious]

If you really want to sort out your hand technique then you could get JoJo Mayer's secret weapons DVD, he goes through every hand technique known to man in extreme detail.

I've seen a bit of that JoJo Mayer Secret Weapon hand technqiue vid on this site actually...it's pretty damn cool! Thing is at the moment I just want to perfect the French grip/arm/wrist/finger movements I'm already doing before moving onto more advanced grips like Moeller etc. There's so many extreme metal drummers out there who embarrass themselves by trying to play beyond their capacity and I really don't wanna do that...I'd rather get a simple technique licked perfectly and play perfectly in time before I make a dick of myself trying to show off with fancy techniques.

[Therma lobsterdore]

I originally concentrated solely on singles like you, however I found that learning other techniques forced my grip to improve. When I learned push/pull doubles my grip changed for the better, and when I learned moeller my grip changed for the better once again, all of this helped out my singles an awful lot. I now have a nice loose grip that can go between singles, doubles, buzzes etc quite well, though it's far from perfect of course. So that might be something worth considering too.

But yes, did that video help you out at all? Cause really the only problem you MIGHT have is gripping the stick too far back and gripping too tightly, at least that's all I can tell from the video's you posted.

That into is sweet by the way!

[monstermook]

Gore,
I'm not trying to antagonize you but ...
I just don't think you get what I am trying to tell you. Almost all of your playing consists of single stroke rolls and flams. In the second video you posted, you did include a paradiddle between the snare and the bell of the ride cymbal, a la Niel Pert. Although it is a tired lick, it is at least more than a single stroke roll and a flam. Congratulations.

The suggestion to add rudiments is a technique suggestion. Adding rudiments to your playing, which I am sure you are capable of, would separate you from all of the other metal drummers out there who sound exactly like you. Its scary! Its like there is this army of clones running around, all with a pony tail, a long sleeved t-shirt, 3 rack toms, a couple of chinas and a remote hi-hat. They are all playing single strokes and flams with exactly the same fills and beats and all at one volume level. Listening to them play is like having a conversation with someone who only knows 2 letters of the alphabet.

"Hey Bill, what are you planning to do this weekend?"
"DADADA ADAD AD DADADA DA DA DA!"
"You don't have to yell, and by the way, I can't understand you."
"DADADDADDDAA ADDAADAADAA DADA!"

[Goreliscious]

Again, your basing your opinion of my style on very little. I do play double stroke rolls between hi-hat and ride in other songs but the way I play is a conscious decision to hark back to old school thrashy death metal where simple strong beats provide a back bone.

If you don't like it - don't listen to it. I don't like technical metal because there's not enough strong simple beats and grooves for my taste - so I don't listen to it. When part of your opinion is based on my haircut your just making yourself sound stupid.

Can we get back on track with my original request please.

[Therma lobsterdore]

monstermook, you have to understand that the way you listen to a song is a different to how a non drummer would listen to a song. You are focusing on the drum patterns, and hence you see all the similarities between metal drummers. Most metal heads that I know don't pay that much attention to the drums ya know. They just head bang to them, so they don't see the repetition of patterns that your talking about.

At the end of the day, a drummer should play what is appropriate for the song, it is not appropriate to force beats in that don't belong just for the sake of being creative or wanting to sound different, you play for the music and support the rest of the band, that's what we do.

Anywho I don't think I have any more pointers for you Goreliscious, your playing is tight and fluid from what I've seen.

[Goreliscious]

Exactly. Same as what I said before...

I could say the same thing about a funk drummer...what they really need is some bomb blast beats and double bass drum...but it wouldn't be right for the music. I do also play jazz, drum 'n' bass and tribal rhythms in my own time to expand my playing, but I don't use it with my band. It wouldn't sound right and it's not what we're aiming for.

Listen to Spheres of Madness by Decapitated. The drums are pretty straight forward all the way through but it's what is right for the riff.

[Crazy+Hands]

Gore,
I'm not trying to antagonize you but ...
I just don't think you get what I am trying to tell you. Almost all of your playing consists of single stroke rolls and flams. In the second video you posted, you did include a paradiddle between the snare and the bell of the ride cymbal, a la Niel Pert. Although it is a tired lick, it is at least more than a single stroke roll and a flam. Congratulations.

The suggestion to add rudiments is a technique suggestion. Adding rudiments to your playing, which I am sure you are capable of, would separate you from all of the other metal drummers out there who sound exactly like you. Its scary! Its like there is this army of clones running around, all with a pony tail, a long sleeved t-shirt, 3 rack toms, a couple of chinas and a remote hi-hat. They are all playing single strokes and flams with exactly the same fills and beats and all at one volume level. Listening to them play is like having a conversation with someone who only knows 2 letters of the alphabet.

"Hey Bill, what are you planning to do this weekend?"
"DADADA ADAD AD DADADA DA DA DA!"
"You don't have to yell, and by the way, I can't understand you."
"DADADDADDDAA ADDAADAADAA DADA!"

Before you tell someone that their style is exactly like everyone else and that they need to develop their own style, lets see what you can do on a kit first.

Learning to incorporate other rudiments is a great way to keep your playing interesting, your absolutely right about that. Like i said before, try working on your practice pad or your snare drum by itself every day for a long as you can. Concentrate on singles and when you get tired of them, dont stop playing, instead immediately switch to your doubles, diddles, triplets, etc...It really helps your hand technique and grip.

Also, when you play the skank beat, try to ride 8th notes on the hihat/ride instead of hitting only at the same time as your snare drum. Try playing the this way leading with with your left and your right hand to help balance your hands. I set up 2 rides and that helps encourage this.

[Goreliscious]

Also, when you play the skank beat, try to ride 8th notes on the hihat/ride instead of hitting only at the same time as your snare drum.

I do that in other songs when I play it single foot on the first beat...as in old school Slayer, Entombed and Dismember. Though it's a good case in point actually cos that particular part has always been too fast for me to play the 8th notes on the ride, (as I only get to practice once a week), though I've recently invested in a practice pad so I might be able to get the 8th notes in after a bit of practice on the pad.

[monstermook]

Again, your basing your opinion of my style on very little. I do play double stroke rolls between hi-hat and ride in other songs but the way I play is a conscious decision to hark back to old school thrashy death metal where simple strong beats provide a back bone.

If you don't like it - don't listen to it. I don't like technical metal because there's not enough strong simple beats and grooves for my taste - so I don't listen to it. When part of your opinion is based on my haircut your just making yourself sound stupid.

Can we get back on track with my original request please.

I am basing the opinion on what you posted for me to base my opinion on. From your response, I take it that the opinion was not helpful. Best of luck.

[monstermook]

Before you tell someone that their style is exactly like everyone else and that they need to develop their own style, lets see what you can do on a kit first.

I'm not seeking an evaluation from you or from anyone on an anonymous message board. As such, I feel no need to 'show you what I can do on a kit.' I was merely responding with an honest opinion to a post from someone who was seeking my opinion.

[monstermook]

monstermook, you have to understand that the way you listen to a song is a different to how a non drummer would listen to a song. You are focusing on the drum patterns, and hence you see all the similarities between metal drummers. Most metal heads that I know don't pay that much attention to the drums ya know. They just head bang to them, so they don't see the repetition of patterns that your talking about.

Good point. I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly so, that he was seeking the input of drummers on his technique and not an audience member.

At the end of the day, a drummer should play what is appropriate for the song, it is not appropriate to force beats in that don't belong just for the sake of being creative or wanting to sound different, you play for the music and support the rest of the band, that's what we do.

Another good point and I would never argue otherwise. That being said, we can't hear the song, only his beats. I have no way of knowing whether or not his playing supports the song and neither do you. My overall take on his playing is a big fat yawn, and so my suggestions on ways to improve his technique were focused on making it more interesting.
He seems to be very relaxed while playing and his placement of his drums seem to be ergonomically correct (from what I can see in the video). I think he has potential to play very interesting stuff but if that is not the kind of playing he wants to do then so be it. Best of luck.

[DrumEatDrum]

I don't listen to much extreme metal, so for the most part, I was pretty impressed with the technique.

Only 2 small things I noticed:

1) When you crossed over to play your hi-hat your face changed, as if you were suddenly very uncomfortable. But as you didn't cross over that much in the 1st video, it was hard to say if it was just the part or something else, but it gave the impression your body isn't has happy about where your hi-hats are as you may think.

2) I noticed at a few points your left wrist bent in more than it did most of the time, which looked kind of painful. Perhaps this is causing a slight reductions in blood and nerve flow at times, causing you left hand to not do what you think it's capable of doing. Seems to do it a little more often toward the end of the video.

[Goreliscious]

Haha yeah I'm guilty of pulling some awful expressions at times when playing...though the worst I've ever seen is the drummer from The Brubeck Brothers - sons of Dave Brubeck - when I saw them playing in South Africa a few years ago. Sweet Jesus he looked like he was cumming then being squirted in the eye with lemon juice. It was bizarre. Great drummer though!

I've got my kit on mats and my main hi-hats where half off them that day leaning up at an angle so I was kinda cautious not to hit them on the side. My slave bass drum pedal kept slipping forward too so there's a few glances downwards and some making sure my 2nd hi-hats weren't bashing against my 12" tom. My wrists have never hurt but I'll consider it next time I'm playing. Cheers.

[Therma lobsterdore]

Good point. I was under the impression, perhaps mistakenly so, that he was seeking the input of drummers on his technique and not an audience member.



Another good point and I would never argue otherwise. That being said, we can't hear the song, only his beats. I have no way of knowing whether or not his playing supports the song and neither do you. My overall take on his playing is a big fat yawn, and so my suggestions on ways to improve his technique were focused on making it more interesting.
He seems to be very relaxed while playing and his placement of his drums seem to be ergonomically correct (from what I can see in the video). I think he has potential to play very interesting stuff but if that is not the kind of playing he wants to do then so be it. Best of luck.

All good points monstermook, I actually do agree that metal drummers nowadays are far too samey, but then again I do listen to an awful lot of metal, and I am a drummer, I was just trying to offer up the view point that most metal heads don't see things as you and me do. But yes, your right, this is a drumming forum after all and some critique on the content of the playing was inevitable. Personally, I try to be creative and avoid using the tried and tested metal beats...but sometimes the song just demands them.

[BrutalKid]

Well, I didn't read all the posts in this thread. I just want to give you some advice.

I think you can do more variation on your hi hat the cymbals, I think they are too straight forward. For example, you can play 8th notes, and then 4th notes, and then triplets...anything you like.

[SickRick]

Just some technique advice:

1.: I think you're holding your stick too far back - that way you don't get as much rebound as you could get from the stick if you were holding it in the balance point.

2.: You "wrap" your index finger around the stick - that way you also kill some rebound and also kill a lot of sound. Try to hold your stick right between the first and second joint. Its akward at first and you'll probably drop your stick a lot in the beginning, but its worth the effort.

3.: Try to hold your stick with the middle finger instead of the index finger - especially for fast and powerfull playing I find this grip much more suitable than holding the stick with the index finger. Watch Derek Roddy - he always has a 2nd finger fulcrum - its just more relaxed when playing loud and fast.

4.: Work seperately on wrist control and finger control - if you have the ability to play fast and powerfull both ways, you can start making then into one technique.

5.: Of course: Check out some more advanced techniques such as Push-Pull, Valving technique or the freehand technique (which you already do with your right hand). All these things will add to your vocabulary and make your playing much more effortless.

6.: You need to learn how to take critique that is meant as constructive technique. I think you're coming on a little strong on people who are actually trying to help you.

Good Luck!