Tip for getting more tom resonance [Archive] - DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

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Crazy+Hands

03-07-2009, 07:29 AM

timmdrum

03-07-2009, 09:42 AM

No disrespect to Gatzen, but this is completely untrue. The only thing increased by turning the L-rod upside down is the risk of your tom hitting the ground, or other gear.

caddywumpus

03-07-2009, 10:14 AM

No disrespect to Gatzen, but this is completely untrue. The only thing increased by turning the L-rod upside down is the risk of your tom hitting the ground, or other gear.

I like how he's talking about more resonance, and he has an Edge Control head on the drum. Also, there's a little black dot that looks like one of the mini-EMAD velcro pieces. Yeah, THAT will get the drum resonating!

...I never agreed with a couple of points on his other videos, either. In my experience, the whole diplomat/ambassador comparison was way off. And the clever "if you raise the front of the bass drum you'll add torsion of the bass drum hoop and reduce the resonance" argument has never held up in any of my experiments. This L-arm "tip" smells like more bogus info to me...

Don't believe everything you hear or read--try these things out for yourself!

Ainulindale

03-07-2009, 12:06 PM

uh - ya, so...

Einstein is rolling over in his grave right now...

TheArchitect

03-07-2009, 01:27 PM

I stumbled on this and thought it was worth sharing:

http://www.tothestage.com/MediaDetail.PAGE?ActiveID=1172&query=tom&MediaId=868

I'm thinking about trying this with my 10x12 and 12x14" toms, even though they probably don't qualify as "larger toms"...i guess he means mounted floor toms?

well, he's right but for the wrong reasons. "Where" on the mounting arm will make a difference, especially on cheaper hardware. Certain points along the mounting arm will have spots where the resonance is gone. I spent a few days experimenting with why my racks would resonate like mad off the stand and die when mounted on my Mapex kit. I eventually found the answer

I have found in these cases that the closer to the bend in the L arm you put the drum the better the resonance will be . In Bobs case I think he happened to mount the drum closer to this point when he flipped the arm over. The answer is in where the tom is mounted on the mount, not which way the mount is pointed

TheArchitect

03-07-2009, 01:30 PM

...I never agreed with a couple of points on his other videos, either. In my experience, the whole diplomat/ambassador comparison was way off. !

Do you mean about resonance? I would have to agree with Bob on that one. Its just physics and I have certainly found it to be true.

GRUNTERSDAD

03-07-2009, 01:54 PM

I have my doubts about this but will let someone else experiment so that, as Timm suggests my beautiful Renown lacquer finish bass drum stays in one pretty un-marred piece.

aydee

03-07-2009, 02:29 PM

WHAT?

That makes absolutely no sense at all.

Einstein sure is resonating in his grave.

Do we really expect a little home-shopping channel secret to awesome sounding drums?

Is there really any other way then well- made, well- tuned drums with well- made head choices?

Crazy+Hands

03-07-2009, 06:18 PM

No disrespect to Gatzen, but this is completely untrue. The only thing increased by turning the L-rod upside down is the risk of your tom hitting the ground, or other gear.

All you have to do to prevent them from falling is to use an extra memory lock. I do that with one of my cymbal arms that I use upside down for mounting my ride cymbal to my pearl icon rack. Its a little extra work but its good insurance.

I see what you are all saying, but it does seem like a viable option if your mounting your floor toms on a double tom stand, maybe this would relieve some of the pressure against the drum allowing it to "float" on the suspension mount a little easier? I don't have any otherwise i would try it...i really doubt it would do anything for my rack toms.

trkdrmr

03-07-2009, 06:39 PM

DW could get more resonance from the drums if they would quit using those hubcap-sized lugs and went to mini lugs.

genericdrummingusername

03-07-2009, 06:46 PM

DW could get more resonance from the drums if they would quit using those hubcap-sized lugs and went to mini lugs.

Speaking of which, why did you opt for direct tom mounts over RIMS?

trkdrmr

03-07-2009, 07:05 PM

Speaking of which, why did you opt for direct tom mounts over RIMS?

RIMS are irrelevant for aluminum drums...tried it, there was no audible difference.

The drums are far more rigid than wood. All rims did was diffuse the energy via bounce.

The drums resonate more powerfully than dw on rims as is.

And if you notice, my lugs are less than 1/2 the size and weight of dw.

genericdrummingusername

03-07-2009, 07:07 PM

RIMS are irrelevant for aluminum drums...tried it, there was no audible difference.

The drums are far more rigid than wood. All rims did was diffuse the energy via bounce.

The drums resonate more powerfully than dw on rims as is.

And if you notice, my lugs are less than 1/2 the size and weight of dw.

RIMS look cooler.

202020202020202020

trkdrmr

03-07-2009, 07:08 PM

RIMS look cooler.

202020202020202020

No, they don't. It's also extra junk (clutter) and expense.

That's why I like drums that use mounting system (like yamaha) that don't use rims.

I like to see 90% shell, not 60% hardware.

This is too "hardwary" The otherwise cool shell is BURIED.
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/regular/0/0/7/584007.jpg

Hey look! A shell under the metal!
http://images.craigslist.org/3na3k63o5ZZZZZZZZZ936df4122eeb3df18f2.jpg

genericdrummingusername

03-07-2009, 07:15 PM

No, they don't. It's also extra junk (clutter) and expense.

That's why I like drums that use mounting system (like yamaha) that don't use rims.

I like to see 90% shell, not 60% hardware.

This is too "hardwary" The otherwise cool shell is BURIED.
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/regular/0/0/7/584007.jpg

Hey look! A shell under the metal!
http://images.craigslist.org/3na3k63o5ZZZZZZZZZ936df4122eeb3df18f2.jpg

Well, I like a small forest

trkdrmr

03-07-2009, 07:23 PM

A dental smile analogy.

DW's use of hardware:
http://www.antibraces.com/images/bracesyuck.jpg

Yamaha's use of hardware:
http://www.invisaligninlasvegas.com/images/invisasmile.jpg

genericdrummingusername

03-07-2009, 07:32 PM

Trick Drums:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sFg0sk8TQKY/SH91dm0KtkI/AAAAAAAAAE4/rOhaj17MgY0/s400/SilverTeethNeck.gif
Wahahaha

trkdrmr

03-07-2009, 07:36 PM

Trick Drums:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sFg0sk8TQKY/SH91dm0KtkI/AAAAAAAAAE4/rOhaj17MgY0/s400/SilverTeethNeck.gif
Wahahaha

Yeah, why bother with braces when the teeth are strong, straight and shiny all by themselves.

genericdrummingusername

03-07-2009, 07:41 PM

Yeah, why bother with braces when the teeth are strong, straight and shiny all by themselves.

That way you can tell it's a DW.

trkdrmr

03-07-2009, 08:03 PM

zambizzi

03-07-2009, 08:31 PM

Back onto the topic of resonance,

In the past few years, Yamaha, Ludwig (micro lugs) Sonor and others abandoned the huge lugs they used to use. I am envisioning one day DW downsizes those lugs. Same design, 1/2 the size and weight.

Either that or I'd just buy a Unix stave with tiny lugs and be done with it...resonance problem solved.

DW had "low mass" lugs for a while, it seems they've been discontinued (or just aren't used often). You don't find them on many used kits either.

Vipercussionist

03-07-2009, 10:10 PM

The only problem I have with Bob's "theory" is that the tom he used is on an Iso Mount already, effectively decoupleing the tom from the hardware to begin with. And if it is decoupled how would it matter which direction the mount is heading??

From a physics point of view, this seems BUNK!!

caddywumpus

03-07-2009, 11:00 PM

Do you mean about resonance? I would have to agree with Bob on that one. Its just physics and I have certainly found it to be true.

Well, then there's a stalemate of opinions from experience. I have found it to be completely untrue. Like I said, find out for yourself what is true with YOUR drums and YOUR tuning.

I love the dental analogies...

trkdrmr

03-08-2009, 05:36 AM

Well, then there's a stalemate of opinions from experience. I have found it to be completely untrue. Like I said, find out for yourself what is true with YOUR drums and YOUR tuning.

I love the dental analogies...

:)

I think that hanging it upside down is about as effective and necessary as vented racing brakes on a turtle.

Again, without the re-rings in a dw, it would be more resonant as well. That would have a pronounced effect vs inverting something on an l-arm.

GRUNTERSDAD

03-08-2009, 07:16 PM

IneptDrummer

03-08-2009, 07:48 PM

You have a metal rod, connected to a stand or rack, that is vertical and you have a clamp on the tom that is tightened against it. Does the clamp know if the rod is upward or upside down.?? Hmmm. I know in my case I have increased the resonance of my bass drum by buying extra long spurs and putting them on top of the bass drum and tightening them to the ceiling rather than the floor.

You're joking right?

I'll just stick with my tube lugs and suspension mounts personally. The ones that Ddrum uses are actually pretty compact and unobtrusive. I just hate it when I change the head on my rack tom every couple of weeks or so. Its a pain to take it on and off.

zambizzi

03-08-2009, 09:55 PM

You have a metal rod, connected to a stand or rack, that is vertical and you have a clamp on the tom that is tightened against it. Does the clamp know if the rod is upward or upside down.?? Hmmm. I know in my case I have increased the resonance of my bass drum by buying extra long spurs and putting them on top of the bass drum and tightening them to the ceiling rather than the floor.

What, no pics? ;)

.................................................. ..................

Wavelength

03-09-2009, 08:03 AM

I know in my case I have increased the resonance of my bass drum by buying extra long spurs and putting them on top of the bass drum and tightening them to the ceiling rather than the floor.

You're joking right?

You're joking, right? Right?

timmdrum

03-09-2009, 08:58 AM

All you have to do to prevent them from falling is to use an extra memory lock.

True, but as I stated in another thread, then it's not a "memory" lock, because you have to remove it every time you remove the drum. Then it's just a lock, no memory. :) The convenience is gone and more time for setup & breakdown is added.

RIMS are irrelevant for aluminum drums...tried it, there was no audible difference. The drums are far more rigid than wood. All rims did was diffuse the energy via bounce. The drums resonate more powerfully than dw on rims as is. And if you notice, my lugs are less than 1/2 the size and weight of dw.

I've heard this before from other Trick users & it makes sense. The guy at Tempus (his name escapes me) says the same about his fiberglass & carbon fiber shells. Haven't personally witnessed it myself, but I'd love to.

DW had "low mass" lugs for a while, it seems they've been discontinued (or just aren't used often). You don't find them on many used kits either.

I totally agree about the large lugs! The resonance difference might be negligible, but large lugs (DW, others) and bulky mounting hardware (Sonor, others) are ugly! Why waste time with great finishes and then obscure them...? I also stated this in another thread- Travis McNabb (late of Better Than Ezra) has a DW kit that uses the small, Trick/Spaun-like lugs that DW uses on their tymp-toms. Great idea! I'm sure since they're a custom company (albeit a large one), they'll do whatever you want, but I'm equally sure they'd never encourage it, because those idiotic lugs are their visual trademark.

caddywumpus

03-09-2009, 06:23 PM

I have increased the resonance of my bass drum by buying extra long spurs and putting them on top of the bass drum and tightening them to the ceiling rather than the floor.

I've found that using wire is a little more effective. It really "isolates" the bass drum from the ceiling. I'm still trying to figure out how to do this to my floor tom without the wire getting in the way of my fills...

trkdrmr

03-09-2009, 07:14 PM

I've heard this before from other Trick users & it makes sense. The guy at Tempus (his name escapes me) says the same about his fiberglass & carbon fiber shells. Haven't personally witnessed it myself, but I'd love to.

Witness these direct mounted drums: (Small lugs too!) They sound completely amazing live, and just bury his DW kit.