French Grip - Help

[Avendesoran]

I'm an open-handed drummer and I'm right handed. I taught my self that way because it felt most natural. Being right handed though, my left hand is a little weaker than my right. I want to use french in my left hand when I'm playing my ride for those triplets etc but I'm having trouble getting french comfortable in my left.

I'm so use to playing german grip that when i use my fingers it tends to send the stick to the right instead of up and down. The direction of motion is different when using fingers in french grip.

Anyone have any tips or exercises to get more comfortable with french?

[TheArchitect]

I'm an open-handed drummer and I'm right handed. I taught my self that way because it felt most natural. Being right handed though, my left hand is a little weaker than my right. I want to use french in my left hand when I'm playing my ride for those triplets etc but I'm having trouble getting french comfortable in my left.

I'm so use to playing german grip that when i use my fingers it tends to send the stick to the right instead of up and down. The direction of motion is different when using fingers in french grip.

Anyone have any tips or exercises to get more comfortable with french?

I know matched and traditional. Can you translate?

[drummer girl09]

go to vicfirth.com. They have an educational part of their website for rudiments and different grips like the french grip.

[Avendesoran]

I know matched and traditional. Can you translate?

What do you mean? translate what?

[BillBachman]

French grip is matched with the thumbs on top of the stick and the sticks are usually near parallel, this grip favors finger use. The opposite matched grip is German grip where the hands are flat, this grip favors wrist use.

Most generally play somewhere in the middle (American?) and unconsciously switch it up on the fly depending on what they're asking their hands to do. For example, flat hands for rimshots on 2 & 4 and then french grip for a jazzy ride pattern.

[TheArchitect]

French grip is matched with the thumbs on top of the stick and the sticks are usually near parallel, this grip favors finger use. The opposite matched grip is German grip where the hands are flat, this grip favors wrist use.

Most generally play somewhere in the middle (American?) and unconsciously switch it up on the fly depending on what they're asking their hands to do. For example, flat hands for rimshots on 2 & 4 and then french grip for a jazzy ride pattern.


I understand. Thank You!

[BassDriver]

I'm an open-handed drummer and I'm right handed. I taught my self that way because it felt most natural. Being right handed though, my left hand is a little weaker than my right. I want to use french in my left hand when I'm playing my ride for those triplets etc but I'm having trouble getting french comfortable in my left.

I'm so use to playing german grip that when i use my fingers it tends to send the stick to the right instead of up and down. The direction of motion is different when using fingers in french grip.
I am having the same problem, does anyone know how to fix this problem?

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

If your left hand is not as developed as your right, you just have to take it slower for a while with it, analyze the trajectory of the stick. Feel the stick in your hand, ad notice where your fingers are going off. This takes time and patience, but it is the only way to learn these new movements.

By the way, almost everyone deals with similar issues. I am left handed and I am always seeking to balance my control in my right hand with my left. It's fascinating, and in the grand scheme of things, probably not the biggest problem, right? I mean I don't think you will fail to get hired because your French grip is a little wobbly.

It's just something to work on to keep learning, and you will see improvements, just give it time and stick to it!

Casper

[yesdog]

A good exercise for your left hand is play all of your rudiments leading with the left.
expample- LRLRLRLRLLRRLLRRLRLLRLRR, OR LRLRLLRRLLRR, LRLRL , LRLRLRL.
WHEN I play double stroke rolls i tend to go to german grip when playing singles I go to french grip so I can use my fingers.

[RollingStone000]

If your left hand is not as developed as your right, you just have to take it slower for a while with it, analyze the trajectory of the stick. Feel the stick in your hand, ad notice where your fingers are going off. This takes time and patience, but it is the only way to learn these new movements.


Great bit of advice.

A while back I picked up the Secret Weapons DVD Jojo Mayer put out. He gets into some exercises for the French grip and there was one that in my opinion really focuses on the each individual finger and developing each individual finger. He started by holding the stick with the fulcrum on the index finger and thumb (no other fingers) and would steadily bounce the stick. Then he'd incorporate the middle finger, the fulcrum would still be between the thumb and index finger, but the strokes were created by the action of the middle finger (again no other fingers). Then he'd switch to the ring finger and leave the middle finger out it with fulcrum as is and no other fingers. And then the same with the same with the pinkie finger.

Once you establish the consistency with each finger, set a metronome at a comfortable speed and then try 1/4 or 1/8 notes from the index/fulcrum, to the middle, to ring, to pinkie and back up to the index finger again.

It just takes time and good practice man, I'm working on this myself and I'm slowly but surely seeing results.

[Monica McCoy]

My teacher started introducing French grip a few months ago. One of the exercises is playing open/close technique with the palm down (matched grip) and then turning the hand over to play French. You go back and forth between these two positions to develop fluidity in the transition.

One thing he really emphasizes is that I play them with the sticks in the knuckles behind the finger nails. The same place you play buzz/press rolls from. My left hand is weaker just like yours but my ride is on the right so I'm really enjoying using the technique.

Anytime you're trying to get your weak hand up to speed with your dominant hand, it normally requires 3 to 5 times the practice. So if I do the exercise for 5 minutes with my right hand, I should spend 15-25 minutes isolating the left.

Good luck.

[Boomka]

French grip is matched with the thumbs on top of the stick and the sticks are usually near parallel, this grip favors finger use. The opposite matched grip is German grip where the hands are flat, this grip favors wrist use.

Most generally play somewhere in the middle (American?) and unconsciously switch it up on the fly depending on what they're asking their hands to do. For example, flat hands for rimshots on 2 & 4 and then french grip for a jazzy ride pattern.

I'd only add that a French Grip is a rotational stroke (like turning a doorknob) and shouldn't involve too much wrist motion. Though, if you have your sticks roughly parallel, this usually takes care of itself.

[Toby_Jackson]

One thing he really emphasizes is that I play them with the sticks in the knuckles behind the finger nails. The same place you play buzz/press rolls from.

Anytime you're trying to get your weak hand up to speed with your dominant hand, it normally requires 3 to 5 times the practice. So if I do the exercise for 5 minutes with my right hand, I should spend 15-25 minutes isolating the left.

I like both of these points - to me the first is critical for a fast and powerful french grip. Being the "finger-grip" if you will, the sticks tend to be further out from the palm and closer to the fingertips then in a more Germanic grip. This allows either the fingers or the wrist-turn maximum leverage on the stick motion.

And of course, anything remotely challenging for the right hand will most likely be confounding for the left.

So examine your technique in detail - play slow defined strokes and note everything that is happening. Compare to your right hand, to the technique of players who have the sound or feel you're aiming for, or to everything your teacher has told you (pick your situation). And remember, there are many ways to pull off nearly every sound, so as you develop, you'll likely encounter something that just feels right to you, and you'll eventually learn what works and doesn't for you personally.

For specific advice, I would recommend working left hand lead single stoke rolls in the French grip through as many tempos as possible in order to develop the feel for that radius-ulnar turn (does anyone outside of the orchestral scene call it the Hinger technique?). You have to feel good with the motion, otherwise every patten you play will be stiff. Only after you work this out and things feel good (may take awhile) should you try working through finger technique. This will feel much different then German because of the new leverage your fingers get and the more direct motions involved. You've got to train all your fingers how to move the stick in the direction you want, and this will take some hard work. But it just takes time and sustained focus/effort, and then it's on to free strokes, Moeller, and anything else you want to be able to do in this grip.

Here's some exercise ideas for the singles:
- Open/close (slow-to-fast)
- doing sprints (1 bar of 8ths, 1 bar of 16ths, 1 bar of 8ths, 2 bars of 16nds, 1 bar of 8ths, 3 bars of 16ths, etc.)
- doing the Stone Killer (repeating fifty sets of 4, 8, 12, then 16 strokes on each hand individually)
- working down from eight hits on a hand down to one (8,7,6 etc.) then back up
- my favorite, fill-ins a la Joe Morello: 1 bar of 8th notes on the left hand in 4/4 time (eight hits) then 1 bar of 16ths, leading with the left hand (LRLR etc.). Then count down to 1 bar in 7/8 (seven hits on the left) + a 7/8 bar of 16ths (LH-lead of course). 6/8 is next (six 8ths + twelve 16ths, left hand all the way). Count all the way down to one until you are playing the 8th+2 16ths pattern (ti-tiri, ta-dimi, L LRL LR). Speed up from there. Awesome.

You'll also want work on finger stroke-style double techniques, such as the open/close, or extending the motion into triples, quads and beyond (filling in finger-strokes in between the open and close motions). Make sure you can time all of these perfectly to your single strokes (basically substitute the motions anytime you can in a fill or exercise, trying to maintain the same sound consistency).

And some random notes from my experience, learning to play shuffles in different feels did the most for my left hand, even moreso than learning how to swing jazz ride patterns. Obviously there are similar motions involved, but I highly recommend checking out a lot of 12/8 shuffle feels, Texas-shuffling with your right hand (nice to compare), trying to play tight, loose, NoLa-style, etc. I attempted for many years to play swing jazz leading w/ my left, never once obtaining the pure feel of the ride my right displayed. That didn't arrive until the open-handed blues sessions, so throw on some records if there's nobody playing a particular feel in your town and hang on that groove!

[BassDriver]

I'm trying to get the MOTION right in my left hand for French Grip.

Your just giving me practice routines that will only allow if I get the MOTION right in the first place.

I'm all theory and no prac, I know what my left hand is failing in and I don't know how to solve it.

HELP!

[Monica McCoy]

Take a good look at what your right hand is doing. Now mimic it with the other hand. :)

[BassDriver]

Take a good look at what your right hand is doing. Now mimic it with the other hand. :)

Trying that already.

This is one of the first lessons I got when playing drums, first drum teacher told me to do this, but it was with German Grip, because I wasn't holding the sticks the right way.

It is the motion and strength of my fingers on my left hand, when I first learned what French Grip was, I got it immediately with the right hand but the left seemed to refuse to move freely.

...this is why...

...if I look at my sticking motion in German Grip I notice that with my right hand I mostly use fingers (yes, fingers in German Grip), with only a little bobbing up and down of the wrist to keep the movement consistent. I hold my wrist still and the fingers will still work fine, the stick is moving independent of the line of my knuckles. This why my right hand adjusted to French Grip quite well.

With my left, hand my wrist does much of the work, while the fingers use a small bobbing motion to keep the stick consistent (although not quite as consistent as the right). If I hold my left wrist still the motion is killed. When I strike the drum normally with the left hand, the stick follows the motion of my knuckles, and so the rest of my fingers do. If I hold the left wrist still the motion is stopped.

It's a terrible habit that really affects my speed, the fastest single stroke roll that I can do left hand leading for me is sixteenth notes at about 180bpm, and I struggle right-hand leading.