Cymbal technique: Still cracking cymbals!

[Jonesy]

Hey guys. I've been having a lot of trouble lately with cracking cymbals. Eventually I realized that it was my technique that was the problem - so I started to concentrate on my technique by making sure that I was using glancing blows from left to right on my crashes. However, I just noticed that my ZHT 16 inch crash cymbal is developing a crack on the edge.

I'm a hard hitter, and even though I've been trying to step it back a bit when I play, I know I'm not the only drummer who hits hard. I'm frustrated as hell because I can't afford to keep replacing all my cymbals. I really want to start upgrading my cymbals as well, but I'm terrified of throwing away $300. Any suggestions from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I'll try to post a video asap of my playing so that maybe someone can identify a flaw in my technique.

[intheruff]

You may be aware of this but I'll mention it in case not. If the crack is short you can drill a small hole where you think it begins. It may take a few attempts to stop the crack, but this works. I've got an old Z 22" with three or four holes before I finally got to that place where the crack begin.

[caddywumpus]

Hard hitting + ZHT = broken cymbals regardless of technique. If you upgrade to a B20 crash cymbal, it won't break (...as quickly, if at all).

If you are naturally hitting your cymbals hard, then maybe you're just wanting more volume out of them. You might consider buying bigger crashes. Also, playing off of a cymbal versus playing "through" it won't transfer so much energy to the cymbal. Sweeping motion or not, it's about how much energy is transferred to the cymbal and how much that sheet of metal can actually handle.

[Drifter in the Dark]

Case in point: I saw a drummer recently who was playing a set of Meinl MCS beginner-level cymbals. He was a heavy hitter, and the 16 inch crash showed signs of abuse (cracks everywhere). However, he was also using a 20 inch A Zildjian Medium-thin crash which was uncracked and sounded great. Bigger cymbals make a huge difference in your sound when you're playing highly amplified music; why do you think John Bonham played 15 inch hats and a 24 inch ride?

[TheArchitect]

Hey guys. I've been having a lot of trouble lately with cracking cymbals. Eventually I realized that it was my technique that was the problem - so I started to concentrate on my technique by making sure that I was using glancing blows from left to right on my crashes. However, I just noticed that my ZHT 16 inch crash cymbal is developing a crack on the edge.

I'm a hard hitter, and even though I've been trying to step it back a bit when I play, I know I'm not the only drummer who hits hard. I'm frustrated as hell because I can't afford to keep replacing all my cymbals. I really want to start upgrading my cymbals as well, but I'm terrified of throwing away $300. Any suggestions from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I'll try to post a video asap of my playing so that maybe someone can identify a flaw in my technique.

Generally I have found that drummers with this issue have a problem with both technique and positioning. You seem to be addressing the technique piece so I would also suggest looking at how your cymbals are positioned.

The shoulder of the stick should be almost parallel with the bow of the cymbal. Drummers who break cymbals tend to have them high and horizontal to the ground. This results in the stick impacting the cymbal at closer to a 90 degree angle than nearly parallel. This puts a lot of strain on the edge/impact point of the cymbal that ends up failing

[razorx]

another way to tell if you are hitting correctly is too look at your sticks. If there is saw dust everyware and your sticks are all jagged you are doing something wrong.

[IneptDrummer]

Use bigger/thicker cymbals. You might think Z Customs are too loud in the store, but they're perfect at band practice and live. I play A Customs and (unfortunately) break them constantly because they're so thin. And B20 cymbals will break just as fast if they're too small or too thin for your playing style.

lol, I'm horrible about the dust and jagged sticks thing. My crashes are head-high and almost flat. I know its bad for them, but it looks so damn cool. :) Maybe try angling them toward you a bit if you're not as stubborn as me.

[Isaac Lee]

another way to tell if you are hitting correctly is too look at your sticks. If there is saw dust everyware and your sticks are all jagged you are doing something wrong.

Hmm. I'm not sure I agree with this one. I never break cymbals, sticks, or drum heads and I always have a build up of sawdust over time on and around my kit.

[Jonesy]

Hard hitting + ZHT = broken cymbals regardless of technique. If you upgrade to a B20 crash cymbal, it won't break (...as quickly, if at all).

If you are naturally hitting your cymbals hard, then maybe you're just wanting more volume out of them. You might consider buying bigger crashes. Also, playing off of a cymbal versus playing "through" it won't transfer so much energy to the cymbal. Sweeping motion or not, it's about how much energy is transferred to the cymbal and how much that sheet of metal can actually handle.

It's comforting to know that the ZHTs simply can't handle the heat - because I was really making an effort not to crack that one. And your suggestion about getting larger cymbals seems like a very good one. I think the next few crashes I get'll be thick/heavy 18/19/20 inchers.

As for playing through the cymbal versus playing off the cymbal, I believe that may be part of my problem. I'm probably playing through it so from now on I'll focus on trying to lift the sound out of it rather than banging it out of it.

oh, and at the same time that I attempted to fix my technique, I also changed the positioning of my cymbals so that they are now lower and more angled towards me. Thus, I don't think this is an issue anymore.

[Jonesy]

You may be aware of this but I'll mention it in case not. If the crack is short you can drill a small hole where you think it begins. It may take a few attempts to stop the crack, but this works. I've got an old Z 22" with three or four holes before I finally got to that place where the crack begin.

I have heard of this, but I don't have a drill available and I don't think it's worth trying to fix (It's just gonna crack again in another spot :P)

[caddywumpus]

As for playing through the cymbal versus playing off the cymbal, I believe that may be part of my problem. I'm probably playing through it so from now on I'll focus on trying to lift the sound out of it rather than banging it out of it.


Like any other musical instrument, there is a dynamic range to each individual cymbal. If you find its loudest volume, and then hit it harder, it's not going to be any louder (it might actually start choking the sound), and you'll most likely be on the road to damaging it sooner rather than later. Find the loudest volume of each cymbal, and don't overplay them. That should do a LOT for keeping them from cracking...

[Unevil]

Bigger/Thicker cymbals definitely would help, but I have recently (sort of) acquired a Zildjian A-Series fast crash, that despite thin-ness and my incessant whaling is showing no signs of abuse or damage...so I think quality would definitely effect the speed at which cymbals break--my friend, for his first drum set, got some kind of off-brand (not that they are ALWAYS bad) drum set, that had cymbals that he could easily bend with his hands to whatever shape he wanted--if you spend $300 on a cymbal, odds are that cymbal will hold together pretty well (and probably sound nice too!)

[rmandelbaum]

From the West Coast Drums website:

The cymbal's edge is the thinnest and most delicate part so how you strike it and at which angle is very important. It is generally best to angle the cymbal at a downward position so you will be able to hit it with a glancing blow. You can also strike the cymbal using a pull back stroke technique (see fig. 14 a & b), which avoids undue shock and stress to the cymbal. Hitting the cymbal dead on in a mounted position (see photo 3), will cause unnecessary stress and breakage. This stress does not allow the cymbal to vibrate correctly, and often a player will tend to overplay the cymbal because of incorrect angles and heights.

Sometimes drummers prefer mounting their cymbals all flat, usually for visual effect. If you choose to do this, we suggest you mount your cymbals low enough to strike them with glancing blows. This will make them last a long time while achieving the look you want.

Remember to choose the right cymbal for the situation. An example of a poor choice would be a small, light cymbal for Heavy Metal music. Overplaying a cymbal will not give you more sound, it will only cause the cymbal to break before its time. Overplaying also makes you work harder than necessary. Spend time getting familiar with your cymbals and their dynamic ranges. The more you know about them, the better you will play them.

http://site.westcoastdrums.com/usage14.gif http://site.westcoastdrums.com/usage13.gif

[Ian Ballard]

Hey guys. I've been having a lot of trouble lately with cracking cymbals. Eventually I realized that it was my technique that was the problem - so I started to concentrate on my technique by making sure that I was using glancing blows from left to right on my crashes. However, I just noticed that my ZHT 16 inch crash cymbal is developing a crack on the edge.

I'm a hard hitter, and even though I've been trying to step it back a bit when I play, I know I'm not the only drummer who hits hard. I'm frustrated as hell because I can't afford to keep replacing all my cymbals. I really want to start upgrading my cymbals as well, but I'm terrified of throwing away $300. Any suggestions from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I'll try to post a video asap of my playing so that maybe someone can identify a flaw in my technique.

Firstly, your ZHTs or whatever, are B8 sheet-bronze, which is considerably weaker than cast B20 Bronze. Not to say your technique could use improvement, but the composition of the cymbals you have--among other physical factors--will determine its resistance to breakage.

Second, without a video to look at your playing, it's impossible to know what you need to improve on.

Third, there is another factor that people don't consider. Thinner, non-buffed cast cymbals tend to resist breakage better than most thicker and buffed/shined cymbals. The buffing can heat up the cymbal, breaking down it's molecular bonds that the forging process builds in (this is especially true with SABIANs which are OVER-buffed in my opinion). Thicker cymbals are harder and less elastic. Bronze is a ductile metal and has some elastic flexure, which is one reason why they make good cymbals. A relatively thin cymbal... take a K Dark Thin like I use ...can survive years of rock playing. The sucker still has not ONE crack in it, yet it does have some dents in the edge, where the elastic flexure could not compensate for a particular hard strike... it still did not crack it. I've owned all kinds of rock crashes and they never lasted as long. My A Customs have developed very tiny cracks, but on the hole, not the edge, which is more related to me not always having nylon bushings on my cymbal stands.

[Mr. Pasquini]

Third, there is another factor that people don't consider. Thinner, non-buffed cast cymbals tend to resist breakage better than most thicker and buffed/shined cymbals. The buffing can heat up the cymbal, breaking down it's molecular bonds that the forging process builds in (this is especially true with SABIANs which are OVER-buffed in my opinion). Thicker cymbals are harder and less elastic. Bronze is a ductile metal and has some elastic flexure, which is one reason why they make good cymbals. A relatively thin cymbal... take a K Dark Thin like I use ...can survive years of rock playing. The sucker still has not ONE crack in it, yet it does have some dents in the edge, where the elastic flexure could not compensate for a particular hard strike... it still did not crack it. I've owned all kinds of rock crashes and they never lasted as long. My A Customs have developed very tiny cracks, but on the hole, not the edge, which is more related to me not always having nylon bushings on my cymbal stands.
I don't know how much I agree with that. While buffing might heat it up I doubt they're super heating the cymbals. Either way I'm a somewhat hard hitter and my only cracked cymbal is my Meinl Gen-X Filter China but it was dropped on it's side. I play heavy metal and I have cymbals from Paiste 2002s to Saluda Mist-X ride and crash (very buffed) and they show NO signs of breaking. It's all about the glancing blows and not side swiping the cymbals.

[intheruff]

(It's just gonna crack again in another spot :P) '

Maybe, but in the meantime you'll stop the first crack from continuing. I'd say bring them over, I'll drill it for you. But... lol.

BTW, this really does work without notiably effecting the cymbals tone. Good luck on your technique.

[Boomka]

There's an old saying for getting a good acoustic balance for micing and recording:

Slap the drums and tickle the cymbals.

Follow that advice and you'll not only have a better internal balance to your playing, but you'll make your soundperson's life easier as well. On top of that, you're less likely to smash cymbals.

Acoustically, the frequency ranges that cymbals vibrate in tend to stand out and make themselves heard. There's no need to be playing your cymbals to failure to get them to sound good and "cut".

That said, like sticks, no matter what you do, the odd one is going to go...

[Boomka]

Like any other musical instrument, there is a dynamic range to each individual cymbal. If you find its loudest volume, and then hit it harder, it's not going to be any louder (it might actually start choking the sound), and you'll most likely be on the road to damaging it sooner rather than later. Find the loudest volume of each cymbal, and don't overplay them. That should do a LOT for keeping them from cracking...

This hits the nail on the head.

We (and I include myself in this) often hit things far harder than they need to be to get the most vibration out of them.

[Jonesy]

I really appreciate all the responses guys; I think I've learned a fair bit about playing my cymbals more effectively and less destructively. I'm still going to try and post a video of my playing so you can critique my technique, just so I can hopefully take that variable out of the picture.

By the way, I read somewhere that when you're riding the crash cymbal it should be spinning as a result of your technique - is that true?

Thanks again.

[Wavelength]

There's an old saying for getting a good acoustic balance for micing and recording:

Slap the drums and tickle the cymbals.

Follow that advice and you'll not only have a better internal balance to your playing, but you'll make your soundperson's life easier as well. On top of that, you're less likely to smash cymbals.

Oh yes! Playing like this is extremely difficult and awkward at first, but once you gain the skill to control your dynamics independently on each component of the kit, your overall sound and control of the instrument are going to be so much better. When I'm working on this idea, I like to really lay into the kick drum and the toms, and at the same time I treat the cymbals like brittle crystal plates. The snare drum can be played with power, but getting the (medium-soft) rim shots to blend with the rest of the kit is a royal pain in the donkey...

[PQleyR]

This hits the nail on the head.


Make sure not to hit the nail on the head too hard, you might snap it off.

[joshisaces]

Make sure not to hit the nail on the head too hard, you might snap it off.

That won't happen if he has good technique ;)

[PQleyR]

That won't happen if he has good technique ;)

Yes, hammer technique is all. Although if it's for metal, he might need some bigger nails.

[joshisaces]

Yes, hammer technique is all. Although if it's for metal, he might need some bigger nails.

His hammers are probably 2b's! haha

[Jonesy]

His hammers are probably 2b's! haha

I use 5b's for your information... ;)

[Boomka]

That won't happen if he has good technique ;)

Actually quite true. Do you use a whipping motion with your hammer? I do. Same with a squash raquet! ;)

No, I'm not kidding...

[PQleyR]

Hah, moeller for hammers. World's fastest hammering competition. I hope this catches on.

[Boomka]

Hah, moeller for hammers. World's fastest hammering competition. I hope this catches on.

Perhaps "World's Most Musical Carpenter" would be a better event?

[PQleyR]

Sounds like some kind of xylophone abuse session. Speed carpenting (is that a word?) might be the thing. Or speed carpeting. It's easier to say.

[razorx]

Hmm. I'm not sure I agree with this one. I never break cymbals, sticks, or drum heads and I always have a build up of sawdust over time on and around my kit.

Key word over time. some time it looks like a wood shop around my kit after playing for an hour.

[Daphfz]

Key word over time. some time it looks like a wood shop around my kit after playing for an hour.

wow thats pretty bad, maybe invest in a series of sawdust vaccum's that can be on while you play :), joking ofcourse, but i think that'd be kool. lol you should video tape urself up close, hitting the cymbals, n see what you're doing wrong.

[Dedworx]

i would suggest you check out Jojo Mayer's Dvd - secret weapons. it explains a lot about good hand technique in detail and in slow motion about getting the most out of your playing while using less energy.

[intheruff]

As I've previously posted, cracks can be stopped by a simple drill hole or two. It only takes a minute to do and possibly adds years to the cymbals life. Relearning improper technique takes a long time (maybe never if the study isn't implimented) during which time many more expensive cymbals may be added to the recycler. It's a no-brainer.

This cymbal was drilled over thirty years ago and only now is beginning to show the crack might be starting to grow again. Time for the workbench.

[trysthedrummer]

Perhaps "World's Most Musical Carpenter" would be a better event?

Haha, I'd win, I'm a Joiner. ;) They do competitions in the US cutting down logs and stuff.

[razorx]

wow thats pretty bad, maybe invest in a series of sawdust vaccum's that can be on while you play :), joking ofcourse, but i think that'd be kool. lol you should video tape urself up close, hitting the cymbals, n see what you're doing wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/user/simpleplandrummer

[Ian Ballard]

I don't know how much I agree with that. While buffing might heat it up I doubt they're super heating the cymbals. Either way I'm a somewhat hard hitter and my only cracked cymbal is my Meinl Gen-X Filter China but it was dropped on it's side. I play heavy metal and I have cymbals from Paiste 2002s to Saluda Mist-X ride and crash (very buffed) and they show NO signs of breaking. It's all about the glancing blows and not side swiping the cymbals.

I could be wrong about the buffing, but I've noticed they SEEM to be weaker, in my experience. I don't like the way they sound anyway.

Yes, technique is #1, but buying super-thick cymbals becomes the bane of a cymbal-cracker's existence when they make the assumption that more metal = less cracking.

[DamoSyzygy]

Buffing cymbals post-production is not a good idea!

What many people seem to have touched on, and what I feel is the biggest factor contributing to cracked cymbals, is customers not buying for their volume requirements.

Especially the younger kids, who see their favourite hardcore artists using something as ridiculously small as 14" crashes in a very loud band.

The problem is, when the cymbal doesnt give off enough volume, subconsciously ALL drummers will hit it harder in order for it to be heard. What then happens is that the player will stiffen their hands as they are forced to throw a harder swing at their cymbals than they are comfortable doing. As I said, this can be something we arent even realizing were doing.
Im sure we've all been in a similar situation when we cant hear our kick drum - Ever wondered why you have sore knees after a night in one venue and not another?

This explains (at least partially) why drummers who claim to have good technique are breaking cymbals too. Once they are playing out of their comfort volume, technique goes out the window.

You need to make sure you buy cymbals for their playability properties, not just their sound.

[nfiora]

#1 Reason why cymbals crack, and i learned this the hard way.
Temperature.
Put your cymbal in the freezer for 20 minuts, take it out and lightly hit the edge with something. And there u have a nice and small crack that will turn into a much larger one when you play it.
keep your cymbals out of the cold.

[intheruff]

#1 Reason why cymbals crack, and i learned this the hard way.
Temperature.
keep your cymbals out of the cold.

I'm not so sure this is right. I can only speak from experience. My drums are usually in the 'shop' all winter when the temps are commonly in the teens and below. I play them nearly everyday... sometimes after warming the shop and sometimes not. The point is, regardless of the temp changes (Zildens, Paiste 604's, Paiste 2002's) I've never cracked a cymbal whether playing in sub zero or not. I hit em' hard only when I deem appropriate, and don't bash the crap out them just because it's possible. I think technique is critical here. Sometimes cymbals crack, maybe because of manufacture's imperfections I don't know, but whatever... it'll be hard to prove to me cracks are caused just because its cold outside. JMHO

[nfiora]

I'm not so sure this is right. I can only speak from experience. My drums are usually in the 'shop' all winter when the temps are commonly in the teens and below. I play them nearly everyday... sometimes after warming the shop and sometimes not. The point is, regardless of the temp changes (Zildens, Paiste 604's, Paiste 2002's) I've never cracked a cymbal whether playing in sub zero or not. I hit em' hard only when I deem appropriate, and don't bash the crap out them just because it's possible. I think technique is critical here. Sometimes cymbals crack, maybe because of manufacture's imperfections I don't know, but whatever... it'll be hard to prove to me cracks are caused just because its cold outside. JMHO
Well i never realy thought that temp had anything to do with it eather untill my local guitar center rep told me about it and the next day i brought a cold cymbal inside and nicked a wall barley. When i looked a tiny tiny crack had started. now that crack is huge and i had to junk the cymbal. U have a point though. Its odd how you keep them outside all the time and play but nothing happens. But possibly the problem might not be just temperature but temperature change.

[lewisn27]

Case in point: I saw a drummer recently who was playing a set of Meinl MCS beginner-level cymbals. He was a heavy hitter, and the 16 inch crash showed signs of abuse (cracks everywhere). However, he was also using a 20 inch A Zildjian Medium-thin crash which was uncracked and sounded great.
That could be because he just bought to 20" crash yesterday and had the MCS's since he started out.
But yeah, thicker cymbals and different metals will crack at different paces.

[jake5566]

To The Cold comment, i've never had problems cracking cymbals in my two years of playing and i play them pretty hard, but when i moved all my stuff to the basement and started playin i had a repaired k custom dark crash that i looked at out of boredum and found 4 small cracks... then i played my a custom projection crash for a while and noticed 2 minor ones as well on it. and i must say it's pretty Damn cold in my basement, could be why right? even if it's temperature change, after a while of playing i sweat taht room out pretty bad.