Floor Tom Troubles

[therak]

So just recently I bought a 14x14 birch yamaha floor tom from musciansfriend. But when I put new heads on it I found that when ever I hit the drum it makes this horrible sound. It sounds like a plastic ball is being hit rather than a drum head. The heads I have on it are Evans Hydraulic (batter) and an Evans EC2 Coated (resonant) cause I like a really warm and damp sound. This combination works well with my 12" tom and my 13" but my 14" and 16" floor toms sound like crap. So is it the fact that these two heads don't work well when it comes to the low end? Or am i just terrible at tuning? Any suggestions???

[drums32]

OK first of all take the hydralic off the batter and take the ec2 off the resonant. I would reccomend putting an evans g1 clear on the bottom and decide whether you want the hydralic on top or the ec2 on top. Once you decide that tune it up to the best of your ability then if theres still too much sustain put on some moongels or something to dampen it, but let those drums sing! Unless you want the drums sounding like your hitting cardboard boxes then leave on the ec2 and hydralic and try to tune it better.

[elcid]

So just recently I bought a 14x14 birch yamaha floor tom from musciansfriend. But when I put new heads on it I found that when ever I hit the drum it makes this horrible sound. It sounds like a plastic ball is being hit rather than a drum head. The heads I have on it are Evans Hydraulic (batter) and an Evans EC2 Coated (resonant) cause I like a really warm and damp sound. This combination works well with my 12" tom and my 13" but my 14" and 16" floor toms sound like crap. So is it the fact that these two heads don't work well when it comes to the low end? Or am i just terrible at tuning? Any suggestions???

Have Evans hydraulics on the batter side and G1s on the resonant side of two 60's Ludwig 14" and one 16" floor toms and work just fine. Also have them on 10, 12, and 13 rack toms and get similar results.

We also put such type heads on an early 60s Gretsch round badge kit (12, 13, 16 toms and batter side of the 20" bass drum) and sonic results are the same: great.

Do have to state that couple of hydraulic heads needed to be shrunk a bit with a hair dryer due to exhibiting small wrinkled areas; this method works great!

I would suggest making sure the heads are properly installed with their mating bearing edges as perfectly as possible before tuning...

-elcid

[Ozzy Biz]

I honestly think that the best starting point for a drum is a coated ambassador over a clear ambassador. From there you can work out what changes in heads you need to get the sound you're after, be it changing the batter to a clear head, a 2 ply head, etc.
I'm generally against all pre-muffled heads (except the P3). If you want a 2ply muffled head, get an Emperor and then muffle if needed. You can always tame a drum down, but you can't open up a pre-muffled head like an un-muffled head can. Plus you pay a heap more for the muffled head.

[therak]

See but the problem with the 14 is that even if I put a different head on the batter and resonant side it makes this sound like I am hitting a plastic ball or like if plastic wrap was laid on top of the head.

[elcid]

See but the problem with the 14 is that even if I put a different head on the batter and resonant side it makes this sound like I am hitting a plastic ball or like if plastic wrap was laid on top of the head.

Ummm...you might want to contact the seller and ask for a replacement. Sounds (no pun intended!) like there might be some issues with the shell...

-elcid

[trkdrmr]

See but the problem with the 14 is that even if I put a different head on the batter and resonant side it makes this sound like I am hitting a plastic ball or like if plastic wrap was laid on top of the head.

Have you checked the bearing edges closely for evenness?

[harryconway]

.......... EC2, features an Edge Control ring that isolates and dampens higher overtones, enhances low-end and attack, and enables broader tuning and dynamic ranges.Unlike conventionally damped heads, the EC2 will not choke at higher tuning ranges, or lose its full-bodied presence when tuned low....... Evans Hydraulic Tom Batter Drumhead Features:

* 2 - 6.5mil plies
* Oil filled
* Fat and wet sound
* Solid attack
* Controlled, quick sustain ..........what you're basically running is two muffled batter heads, except one batter position and one reso. position. Try running either/or batter, and a single ply head reso. (like the head that probably came stock with the drum. And work on tuning. The hydraulic head (batter) should work well with a single ply reso, and so should the EC2 (batter) work well with a single ply reso.

[Drifter in the Dark]

If you want a 2ply muffled head, get an Emperor and then muffle if needed. You can always tame a drum down, but you can't open up a pre-muffled head like an un-muffled head can. Plus you pay a heap more for the muffled head.

Agreed. I have a 14 inch Yamaha birch floor tom myself, and with Remo Emperors on top and bottom (coated batter/clear resonant) it sounds excellent. The drum can resonate freely because the heads aren't overly muffled, and the Emperor resonant head controls the overtones and fattens the sound up a bit.

[timmdrum]

Have Evans hydraulics on the batter side and G1s on the resonant side of two 60's Ludwig 14" and one 16" floor toms and work just fine. Also have them on 10, 12, and 13 rack toms and get similar results.

We also put such type heads on an early 60s Gretsch round badge kit (12, 13, 16 toms and batter side of the 20" bass drum) and sonic results are the same: great.

Do have to state that couple of hydraulic heads needed to be shrunk a bit with a hair dryer due to exhibiting small wrinkled areas; this method works great!

-elcid

Might those wrinkles be from the head not being evenly tensioned?

By "great" or "fine", do you mean, "dead like cardboard boxes"? I'd only use hydraulics if I was trying to replicate The Eagles' 70's lifeless drum sound, and all the department stores were out of cotton balls & duct tape, & the music stores were out of Moongels (I'd need 5 packs of 'em), which means I'd completely forgotten that drums are supposed to have vibrating membranes in order to make a drum-like sound... :)

[The Parasprinter]

It sounds like a plastic ball is being hit rather than a drum head.

I had the same trouble with Evans hydros, where they would sound like I had strapped a gym class kick-ball on my kit, but only on certain drums. They were fine on the rack toms, then awful on the 16x14 floor, but oddly enough were fine again on the 18x16. And the bass hydros sounded okay on a 22, but went back to kick-ball sounds on a 24. Can't remember what resos I used, but they were ones that had sounded great with a previous set of batters.

What I'm trying to say is they're just a really inconsistent sounding head; even the sound from the drums they worked well on wasn't enough to get me to like them. I'd recommend against using these batters, but then that's just me.

[elcid]

Might those wrinkles be from the head not being evenly tensioned?

By "great" or "fine", do you mean, "dead like cardboard boxes"? I'd only use hydraulics if I was trying to replicate The Eagles' 70's lifeless drum sound, and all the department stores were out of cotton balls & duct tape, & the music stores were out of Moongels (I'd need 5 packs of 'em), which means I'd completely forgotten that drums are supposed to have vibrating membranes in order to make a drum-like sound... :)

Ok my friend, am going to take the bite...and for the moment will ignore 'yer thinly disguised sarcasm. :)

First of, yes...the heads were properly installed and evenly tensioned yet occurred with both Ludwig and Gretsch toms (one rack, the other floor), and as I mentioned already heat addressed the wrinkle "problem" (saw this "cure" being performed in a segment of "How's Made" program on one of the Discovery Channels when how drums are made was featured; it was done on new snare drums--but apply to other drums as well--during final assembly.

Second, although the Evans hydraulic heads do greatly tame spurious (feel free to call it what you will) resonances can't really be said they sound like cardboard nor lifeless.
They aren't for everyone, true enough, yet they serve my current purpose since the drum sets will not be used in live performances, where resonating projection is more desired, anytime soon; in my large home theater room where they're currently located they sound just right.
This sonic factor will become of greater importance when the sets are relocated in a much smaller acoustical venue (read: room) since I do not wish to overwelm and cause damage to my hearing, so the use of such type of drum heads fulfills this particular requirement quire well.
You most definitely dislike them and that's just fine with me; you certainly aren't obliged to use them!

I'll have you know that have used several types of drum heads (even real calfskins!) through the years to know what they're supposed to do (i.e., "vibrate"), so please spare me the sarcastic tutorial sermon, but just for the hell of it (not that I owe anyone any explanations whatsoever)...let me categorically state that when moi finally manages to get in with a church choir or other type of musical group/band (which am hoping happens soon) either one of those two drum kits will be outfitted with more "resonating" heads (Remo batter Ambassador or single ply coated Attack). There, I said it! :)

By the way...my son's recently acquired Legend drum set's rack and floor toms were outfitted with brand new Remo coated Ambassador batter and clear Evans G1 reso heads prior to it being sold. Dude, are these resonating enough 'fer 'ya???... :)

-elcid

[timmdrum]

My not-veiled-at-all sarcasm wasn't directed towards you at all, it was just me stating my opinion of those heads in a light-hearted way. Sorry if you took it that way. But, there was truth (in my opinion) at the root of it- every drum I've ever heard with a Hydro sounded dead as a cardboard box. I'd never messed with them myself until I recently bought a small practice kit and one of the batters had been replaced with a Hydro. I'm great (if I may say so myself) at tuning drums, and nothing I did could make that little 10" tom say anything but "thimp" (not even "thump", haha). Maybe they work better on larger drums. In your situation, where resonance isn't a big deal, I totally see how they'd be perfect for you.

"I'll have you know..."? "sarcastic tutorial sermon..."?? Wow, take an Ex-Lax or Prozac or somethin' and relaaaaaxx. Yer sphincter's all clenched up. :)

[Niles]

Hey therak, try tightening up the heads untill they rig then back off both the top and bottom untill you hear what you want. Remember you are useing a 14 inch drum and it is going to sound like wet cardboard untill you bring up the tension. It will never be a deep sounding drum. It is after all the same diamiter as your snare. If you need deep, go big, 16 or 18 inch. (Slingerland used to make a 20"). I am in the market for a 14" Slingerland to round out my kit however ;). Niles

[elcid]

My not-veiled-at-all sarcasm wasn't directed towards you at all, it was just me stating my opinion of those heads in a light-hearted way. Sorry if you took it that way. But, there was truth (in my opinion) at the root of it- every drum I've ever heard with a Hydro sounded dead as a cardboard box. I'd never messed with them myself until I recently bought a small practice kit and one of the batters had been replaced with a Hydro. I'm great (if I may say so myself) at tuning drums, and nothing I did could make that little 10" tom say anything but "thimp" (not even "thump", haha). Maybe they work better on larger drums. In your situation, where resonance isn't a big deal, I totally see how they'd be perfect for you.

"I'll have you know..."? "sarcastic tutorial sermon..."?? Wow, take an Ex-Lax or Prozac or somethin' and relaaaaaxx. Yer sphincter's all clenched up. :)

Ok, my bad; no hard feelings, right? :)

By the way...last year had John Riolo build me a pseudo Ludwig (couldn't bring meself to pay $700+ for a real one!) 10x10 tom finished with silver sparkle wrap to match the 'ol DB kit and it really sings even with the hydro batter head on it! Go figure...

Oh, yes...took some Ex-Lax as you suggested and guess what...it worked! Me sphincter isn't puckered up no 'mo; thanks, Doc!!!... :)

-elcid

[massdrum]

I've had similar issues with 14" "square" floor toms. I do agree that the Hydraulic/EC2 combo is not going to help much with your problem. At least try a single ply head on the bottom.

I'm not sure what your tuning scheme is, but try tuning the bottom head a third above the top. Its counter to what most people do - which is either tuning to the same pitch, or tuning the bottom head lower.

I've found that it really opens up the sound of the drum, takes away the basketball, and increases sustain.

I'd also suggest simply checking the drum within the context of playing with a band. Alot of those "bad" sounds completely disappear once you get inside an ensemble....