Ambassador: two weeks and no hole in the coating!?

[Tom Sawyer]

What happened? Have Remo finally fixed their lousy coating? I remember buying an ambassador and after half an hour there was a hole in the middle of the head. This is the reason I ultimately switched to using Evans.
Now I bought an ambassador for my snare, and after two weeks of heavy playing it's as good as new. I'm almost disappointed.
Have you noticed that? Or did I get lucky?

[Doug Masters]

In the last 10 years or so I have gotten 2 bad Remo heads and 1 bad Evans...all 2-ply clear. Never had an issue with coating at all. Maybe I'm lucky.

[Michael G]

You're complaining because your head isn't defective?

Uh

[veggo32]

So, your dissapointed? wow your a tough customer to please. LOL

There was never anything wrong with remo's coating.
The problem is drummers with band technique bashing the drum. What do you expect is going to happen?

I've never had any issues with coated ambassador's.
Maybe, your hitting the drum correctly now.

[Daphfz]

or it could just be, that when the heads are transported to the stores and such, they are in high temps in the trucks, which causes the coating to flake, and maybe now they switched to a cooler type truck lol :), just an idea :)

[brady]

or it could just be, that when the heads are transported to the stores and such, they are in high temps in the trucks, which causes the coating to flake, and maybe now they switched to a cooler type truck lol :), just an idea :)


If there is any truth to the cooler truck theory, they haven't changed all of their trucks. :-) I just bought a new Vintage A head last month and I had already lost part of the coating by the time I got the head tuned. Now it looks absolutely trashed and I don't play that hard at all and use fairly small sticks too. Not to trash Remo or anything as I know all head companies can have their batch of 'lemons'. It just seems to me the Remo has the most... I've switched to Aquarian since and love the long lasting coating on their heads.

[veggo32]

Wow. I don't know, but I guess it may be true after all. That remo does produce bad heads from time to time. But if they do I've never got one in twenty + years. I'll consider myself lucky and leave it at that.

[drumtechdad]

I've been using coated Ambs for decades and never had the coating wear prematurely.

Some drummers: Remo's coating wears off in 15 minutes.
Other drummers: Remo's coating never wears off prematurely.

There's a logical conclusion to be drawn here, I'll let everyone arrive at it themselves. (Hint: it ain't luck.)

[veggo32]

I've been using coated Ambs for decades and never had the coating wear prematurely.

Some drummers: Remo's coating wears off in 15 minutes.
Other drummers: Remo's coating never wears off prematurely.

There's a logical conclusion to be drawn here, I'll let everyone arrive at it themselves. (Hint: it ain't luck.)


That's what I believe too. I guess it's just hard for someone to point the finger at themselves, its easier to blame the company. So for some, another company may provide more durablity in their opinion (beyond what it should be) but sacrifices tone, and they are happy with that, I guess. But one day, when they return they will realize that the head wasn't to blame all along.

[Green_Shoes]

If there is any truth to the cooler truck theory, they haven't changed all of their trucks. :-) I just bought a new Vintage A head last month and I had already lost part of the coating by the time I got the head tuned. Now it looks absolutely trashed and I don't play that hard at all and use fairly small sticks too. Not to trash Remo or anything as I know all head companies can have their batch of 'lemons'. It just seems to me the Remo has the most... I've switched to Aquarian since and love the long lasting coating on their heads.

I have been using Vintage A on my toms since they come out and have never had any problems. Coating lasts forever, very impressed with them. But point to note, i also use Aquarian and they last just as long.

[brady]

I have been using Vintage A on my toms since they come out and have never had any problems. Coating lasts forever, very impressed with them. But point to note, i also use Aquarian and they last just as long.


I'm glad someone came out to defend the Vintage As. As I said, I didn't mean to trash Remo. I just like other heads better. I'm sure my experience with the Vintage heads isn't typical at all. I may try them again someday...

[Pedro]

I've been using coated Ambs for decades and never had the coating wear prematurely.

Some drummers: Remo's coating wears off in 15 minutes.
Other drummers: Remo's coating never wears off prematurely.

There's a logical conclusion to be drawn here, I'll let everyone arrive at it themselves. (Hint: it ain't luck.)

Ok. I bought ambassadors, 12,13,16: 12": after 1hour coating off, 13 and 16: still nothing clear to see on the head. How can you explain this?

[dkerwood]

I've been using Ambassadors for as long as I've had a say over what heads were on my drums, and I've never had an issue. In fact, I didn't really understand that this "flaking" problem was... until I picked up an Aquarian head from the "used heads" bin at the drum store. It had only a few stick marks and a couple of scratches through the coating, but still worth the $5, so I bought it. I put it on my jazz snare and played it for a jazz gig. No problems. I threw it on my set again at home and did about 20 minutes of rock practice on it... TONS of white flakiness all over my rug and no longer on my head.

Never had problems with Evans coated heads either, although I generally don't buy them.

[DrewTheShoe]

I've had my Ambassador on my snare for a good... five to six months now, and I have only one portion of the coating that has worn off in the size of roughly a dime. It's still white colored, just smooth. Maybe my Ambassador is just really well made...?

[drumtechdad]

Ok. I bought ambassadors, 12,13,16: 12": after 1hour coating off, 13 and 16: still nothing clear to see on the head. How can you explain this?

Well, some drummers wear them out and others don't, so--given that it's statistically preposterous to imagine that one group gets all the good ones and another group gets all the bad ones--logically it must be a difference in the drummers.

What that difference is, I don't know. Stick angles? Playing with chipped or gouged tips? Or something else entirely! I haven't a clue. I know it's not how hard you hit--I don't hit hard much anymore but my kid hits wicked hard (gigs unmiked all the time) and his coated Amb snare batter is a year and a half old with no chips, flakes, or wear-through, just a smoothing of the coating.

So, in short, I can't explain it. It's an odd thing, though!

[Tom Sawyer]

You're complaining because your head isn't defective?

Uh

So, your dissapointed? wow your a tough customer to please. LOL

Yeah, that was more of a joke. But the thing about the technique might actually have something to do with it, because back then I didn't pay close attention to those things, since then a lot in my playing changed.
However, I always heard people complaining about the coating on remo heads wearing off a lot faster than any other brand, so I figured maybe they did something about it.

[Nodiggie]

So, your dissapointed? wow your a tough customer to please. LOL

There was never anything wrong with remo's coating.
The problem is drummers with band technique bashing the drum. What do you expect is going to happen?

I've never had any issues with coated ambassador's.
Maybe, your hitting the drum correctly now.

I would like to believe this but unfortunately it has NOT been my experience. I recently experimented with this coating issue and thought, "well, maybe it's just my crappy wood tips that are getting splinters and causing the coating to come off" So, I put G1 coated and played two completed rehearsals with it. I used brand new nylon tipped sticks. Result: no chips. I put the stock Ambassador Coated on the second week and played the exact same set with a new pair of Identical nylon tipped sticks. Results: 2" center had completely com off the head.

I am not convinced yet that Remo makes a tougher head. Sorry, just my experience with these heads.

[metal overlord]

I'm a heavy hitter, I use big ol' oak sticks, and I use a Remo. I've had it since November and it only has stick marks and a smooth spot in the middle, but no spots where the coating is off.

But, it's an Emporer X. And normally, all the problems I hear are from the Ambassators.

Anyway though, it could just be sales. When heads loose their coating/become worn and torn most people say it's time for a new head, meaning more sales.

[Mystic]

I haven't had any problems with remo's coating coming off in 1 hour, it must be a technique issue, because even in my amateur drum days, I never had the problem of the coating "chipping off". Now I have had a problem with 1 of their smaller heads tearing after about 3 weeks of purchase and use. Other than that though, it's been fine.

[FunkyJazzer]

it must be a technique issue

Nah I'm pretty sure it's not technique. I have a good technique, and have been playing for many years. I play jazz and I am a very light player. The coating on my 10" Ambassador started chipping away after just over a fortnight. It's ridiculous now, I'm considering switching to Evans.

[dkerwood]

Could it be a regional issue? Something affecting the chemistry of the Remo heads unique to that region (because I'm not silly enough to believe that Remo would just pick a destination for all of its defective heads)?

It's really strange for me to hear all of this when I've never once had an issue with Remo, even when the heads are 20+ years old. Granted, I don't go through a lot of heads. I've probably only had maybe a dozen or so go through my hands if you don't count heads on other people's kits... and I don't recall any issues with any of those that I've seen either.

In fact, I've never personally met anyone who has had issues with Remo. It has to be a regionally localized problem.

[Steady Freddy]

I don't have an axe to grind with Remo, but the coated heads chip away after a few hours of playing. That's not to say that all the coating comes off, but it comes off on the impact area where the sticks land the most.

By contrast, the Evans coated heads don't chip at all after months of playing. Same drums, same set up, same sticks, same songs, and same technique.

YMMV

[caddywumpus]

I don't have an axe to grind with Remo, but the coated heads chip away after a few hours of playing. That's not to say that all the coating comes off, but it comes off on the impact area where the sticks land the most.

By contrast, the Evans coated heads don't chip at all after months of playing. Same drums, same set up, same sticks, same songs, and same technique.

YMMV

I haven't had these same experiences. Evans and Remos sound practically the same, and I haven't noticed a difference in the chipping factor. The coating on the Remo Diplomats, however, wears down pretty quickly when you use brushes...

[FunkyJazzer]

Man, I don't think we'll ever find out for sure will we?!

I think I prefer the sound of Remo anyway...but maybe it's just a random selection of heads that have dodgy coating. I mean, the first Ambassadors I bought lasted YEARS, and only just before I replaced them, the 10" started to chip really slightly, but we're talking after months and months of playing, going through all sorts of tunings and levels of hitting. THEN, the second set of Ambassadors I purchased, like I mentioned in my last post, started chipping almost immediately...Only seems to be the 10" though.

It's so weird.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I have been using Evans G2 on my toms for almost two years now, that's 2 sets of heads and they do get smooth but no rubbish on the floor or clear head showing thru. I mostly use Regal Tip nylon but have used wood tips also. All of my snare heads are Genera coated and I have not had one problem. In defense of the others if you are just banging on the heads and not abusing them with bad sticks there should be no problems. I will stay with Evans for this very reason. Why switch and take a chance. Maybe we can send this to Mythbusters

[drumhead61]

That's what I believe too. I guess it's just hard for someone to point the finger at themselves, its easier to blame the company. So for some, another company may provide more durablity in their opinion (beyond what it should be) but sacrifices tone, and they are happy with that, I guess. But one day, when they return they will realize that the head wasn't to blame all along.

Yes/NO, some folks can never face the fact that fault may have been on their side...they may just believe (if they do in fact return) that the "company" has fixed their issues and the product is "BETTER".

[drumhead61]

I have been using Evans G2 on my toms for almost two years now, that's 2 sets of heads and they do get smooth but no rubbish on the floor or clear head showing thru. I mostly use Regal Tip nylon but have used wood tips also. All of my snare heads are Genera coated and I have not had one problem. In defense of the others if you are just banging on the heads and not abusing them with bad sticks there should be no problems. I will stay with Evans for this very reason. Why switch and take a chance. Maybe we can send this to Mythbusters

That is one way of getting drummer attention...Mythbusters!

[Fiery]

Yes/NO, some folks can never face the fact that fault may have been on their side...they may just believe (if they do in fact return) that the "company" has fixed their issues and the product is "BETTER".
What about the people who have played Remo, had flaking, went to Evans, had no flaking, went back to Remo, had flaking again? Same hands, same sticks, same technique, different heads, different results.

Could it be that one company actually has <gasp!> higher quality coating than the other?

[zambizzi]

I don't have an axe to grind with Remo, but the coated heads chip away after a few hours of playing. That's not to say that all the coating comes off, but it comes off on the impact area where the sticks land the most.

By contrast, the Evans coated heads don't chip at all after months of playing. Same drums, same set up, same sticks, same songs, and same technique.

YMMV

I had this problem a couple years ago with Remo and gave up on the coated heads. Last summer I bought some coated ambs and noticed the box was different...and the coating was a slightly darker, different shade. I thought, "hmm...maybe they fixed it?". I beat on those heads for 6 mo. and the coating never came off. Every coated amb I've put on a snare in the last year has been solid, too.

I think they listened.

[Steady Freddy]

What about the people who have played Remo, had flaking, went to Evans, had no flaking, went back to Remo, had flaking again? Same hands, same sticks, same technique, different heads, different results.

Well said.

This has been my experience. I change heads often. About every six months. I have Ambassadors on several snares and Evans heads on several others. The coating starts chipping away on the Remo heads, but not on the Evans heads.

I mounted Vintage As on my toms and had the same experience. No problem with G2s.
One of the vintage As was dead as a door nail and wouldn't tune up. I returned the head and got a good one, but I'm just too busy to deal with crap like this.

Remo seems to be hit or miss. For my money I'd rather spend it on heads that have a solid track record based on my personal experience.

I like the sound of Remo heads, but the Evans sound good too, and are hassle free.

I'm just tired of having gear issues so I use what serves me well.

AAYMMV

[ermghoti]

I've been using coated Ambs for decades and never had the coating wear prematurely.

Some drummers: Remo's coating wears off in 15 minutes.
Other drummers: Remo's coating never wears off prematurely.

There's a logical conclusion to be drawn here, I'll let everyone arrive at it themselves. (Hint: it ain't luck.)

This drummer: Ambassador's coating lasts for weeks.
Emperor's coating on snare comes off in minutes. Emperor coating on toms, weeks. Different lots? Who knows.

[LeeLovesSabian]

On my Remo Emporer X snare head:

Instead of holes in the cutting, it presses down and becomes smooth.
No holes.
This may just happen becuase of my perticular style, or because thats how they are made.
Has this happened to anyone?

[Fiery]

I'd say you do get holes in the coating, but the head beneath is white instead of transparent, so it seems like it just got smooth.

[lewisn27]

Is this whole discussion about the coating flaking off or the head becoming smooth(er), where the stick hits it?
If it is about flaking, it has never happened to me.

[massdrum]

Doesn't effect the sound. Its just cosmetic.

Just hit the things and stop staring at them.